It Was 20 Years Ago Today.....

[Colr]

Well, tomorrow! Worth a read.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/30/tony-blair-labour-can-win-andrew-rawnsley-brexit-election

[overdrive]

This won't be a popular opinion but I really wish he'd make a comeback. He talks a lot of sense, particularly around Brexit, and his position is pretty much bang on where I am politically.

The Iraq War muddies how he is viewed. Exclude that and he'd be one of the greats.

[Pretty Boy]

The Independent nailed it with their front page when he resigned.

The Iraq War, possibly correctly, clouds a lot of peoples judgement on Blair. He achieved a hell of a lot of good things and whether people like it or not carried on John Smiths work of making the Labour party electable.

[lyonhibs]

War criminal chat in 3.........2...........1.................

The best PM of my lifetime bar none. Far from perfect mind but I cannot honestly seeing anyone, either blue or red, besting him in terms of meaningful positive change in the forseeable future.

[Colr]

7 years old but an interesting read in retrospect.

i was redirected from their article on Britpop!!!

http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/05/labour-policy-policies-blair

[Smartie]

The political landscape at Westminster is bleak.

Labour are an unelectable shambles. The Tories are probably about as nasty as the nasty party have ever been. Farron is a lightweight and it is particularly depressing that I should even feel compelled to mention UKIP.

Tony Blair consistently makes sense on the subject of practically everything. He made an error of judgment when placed in a very difficult situation and as a result everyone wants to crucify him for it.

If he were to make a miraculous comeback and sweep his way to becoming Prime Minister in June, I would be delighted (not that it is going to happen of course).

And that's from someone who has never voted Labour.

[-Jonesy-]

Just want to remind you all that only yesterday 139 civilians died in Iraq from various acts of violence attributed to the On going effects of Tony's war. The figure stands around 194,558 NON COMBATANT deaths since the invasion. That's in Iraq alone. In syria, the most Conservative estimate of civilian deaths stands at 321,358. I would say it is almost impossible to calculate the number of innocent fatalities in the whole Middle East as a result of Tony's illegal war in 2003. Let's tack on how many innocent Europeans have been killed in terror attacks in the last 14 years and I'd say it's fair to say Tony Blair is responsible for close to, if not more, 1 million civilian deaths world wide and let's not forget he faked evidence and lied to achieve that. Also remind yourselves his government oversaw the financial crash of 2008 and then he promptly jumped ship, somehow became a Middle East peace envoy and funnelled millions and millions of £ from his speaking engagements and property empire through a web of offshore companies to avoid paying tax.

Those of you saying he was the best PM you've seen or would be glad to have him back seriously need to question your sense of humanity and wonder what it really is you see in this self serving narcissist, and yes, war criminal.

[Smartie]

Just want to remind you all that only yesterday 139 civilians died in Iraq from various acts of violence attributed to the On going effects of Tony's war. The figure stands around 194,558 NON COMBATANT deaths since the invasion. That's in Iraq alone. In syria, the most Conservative estimate of civilian deaths stands at 321,358. I would say it is almost impossible to calculate the number of innocent fatalities in the whole Middle East as a result of Tony's illegal war in 2003. Let's tack on how many innocent Europeans have been killed in terror attacks in the last 14 years and I'd say it's fair to say Tony Blair is responsible for close to, if not more, 1 million civilian deaths world wide and let's not forget he faked evidence and lied to achieve that. Also remind yourselves his government oversaw the financial crash of 2008 and then he promptly jumped ship, somehow became a Middle East peace envoy and funnelled millions and millions of £ from his speaking engagements and property empire through a web of offshore companies to avoid paying tax.

Those of you saying he was the best PM you've seen or would be glad to have him back seriously need to question your sense of humanity and wonder what it really is you see in this self serving narcissist, and yes, war criminal.

I don't think anyone can really defend Blair over Iraq, but we can acknowledge mitigating circumstances.

How many people in Iraq might have died at the hands of Saddam Hussein over a similar period?

What if there had actually been weapons of mass destruction?

PMs stand or fall by their own decisions. Blair got that one badly wrong and it has shaped the way we all think of him now.

Rather than getting all dewy-eyed over Tony Blair, I would say I am more aware of the lack of appropriate alternatives. Would you trust Theresa may to do the right thing?

Corbyn's heart is in the right place and WITH HINDSIGHT he made a lot of very sensible comments about Iraq. The problem we have though is that there might actually be a Saddam Hussein out there who has weapons that could seriously harm us, and we would need to have a leader who was prepared to take serious action if necessary. I simply don't think Corbyn could ever be that man.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The political landscape at Westminster is bleak.

Labour are an unelectable shambles. The Tories are probably about as nasty as the nasty party have ever been. Farron is a lightweight and it is particularly depressing that I should even feel compelled to mention UKIP.

Tony Blair consistently makes sense on the subject of practically everything. He made an error of judgment when placed in a very difficult situation and as a result everyone wants to crucify him for it.

If he were to make a miraculous comeback and sweep his way to becoming Prime Minister in June, I would be delighted (not that it is going to happen of course).

And that's from someone who has never voted Labour.

There is defo a bit of a phenomena where ex politicians become much more respected and statesmanlike when they depart the scene.

Think major, Hague, Brown, David Miliband to an extent, Ming Campbell.

Its one of the reasons i dont think young PMs are good - you need age, experience amd perspective.

Agree with what you say about Blair, he was a good PM despite his many faults. I would still arvue he could have done more in that first term, but i understand why he didn't. Overall, he was a good PM at a good time to be PM.

Iraq was a disaster, but it doesnt negate what he did domestically imo.

[-Jonesy-]

What if there had actually been weapons of mass destruction?

.

But there weren't.
Neither was there any credible evidence to show that there were.
Blairs administration falsified evidence to justify the invasion. I wasn't even old enough to vote at the time but I still joined the single biggest demonstration the world has ever experienced against the war, which he chose to ignore, as well as the UNited Nations.

I would say the deaths of a million innocent people and plunging the world into an era of extremism that shows no signs of ending is his legacy and does indeed negate any positive impact he made domestically.

[lord bunberry]

But there weren't.
Neither was there any credible evidence to show that there were.
Blairs administration falsified evidence to justify the invasion. I wasn't even old enough to vote at the time but I still joined the single biggest demonstration the world has ever experienced against the war, which he chose to ignore, as well as the UNited Nations.

I would say the deaths of a million innocent people and plunging the world into an era of extremism that shows no signs of ending is his legacy and does indeed negate any positive impact he made domestically.
I can't stand Tony Blair, but it's not fair to accuse him of plunging the world into an era of extremism. That era had already begun before the Iraq war. 9/11 was 2 years before the Iraq war started.

[-Jonesy-]

I can't stand Tony Blair, but it's not fair to accuse him of plunging the world into an era of extremism. That era had already begun before the Iraq war. 9/11 was 2 years before the Iraq war started.

True, also at that time al Qaeda were a few dozen nutters in mountain caves let by one bin laden.

Now there is a genuine army of fanatics spread right across the region committing medieval style atrocities daily...looks like that went well

[Mantis Toboggan]

The Independent nailed it with their front page when he resigned.

The Iraq War, possibly correctly, clouds a lot of peoples judgement on Blair. He achieved a hell of a lot of good things and whether people like it or not carried on John Smiths work of making the Labour party electable.

Completely agree. However I get shot down in significant flames whenever I try and argue this.
They made a hell of a lot of good decisions pre 9 11.

[Betty Boop]

Just want to remind you all that only yesterday 139 civilians died in Iraq from various acts of violence attributed to the On going effects of Tony's war. The figure stands around 194,558 NON COMBATANT deaths since the invasion. That's in Iraq alone. In syria, the most Conservative estimate of civilian deaths stands at 321,358. I would say it is almost impossible to calculate the number of innocent fatalities in the whole Middle East as a result of Tony's illegal war in 2003. Let's tack on how many innocent Europeans have been killed in terror attacks in the last 14 years and I'd say it's fair to say Tony Blair is responsible for close to, if not more, 1 million civilian deaths world wide and let's not forget he faked evidence and lied to achieve that. Also remind yourselves his government oversaw the financial crash of 2008 and then he promptly jumped ship, somehow became a Middle East peace envoy and funnelled millions and millions of £ from his speaking engagements and property empire through a web of offshore companies to avoid paying tax.

Those of you saying he was the best PM you've seen or would be glad to have him back seriously need to question your sense of humanity and wonder what it really is you see in this self serving narcissist, and yes, war criminal.

Spot on Jonesy. Lest we forget.

[Mantis Toboggan]

Just want to remind you all that only yesterday 139 civilians died in Iraq from various acts of violence attributed to the On going effects of Tony's war. The figure stands around 194,558 NON COMBATANT deaths since the invasion. That's in Iraq alone. In syria, the most Conservative estimate of civilian deaths stands at 321,358. I would say it is almost impossible to calculate the number of innocent fatalities in the whole Middle East as a result of Tony's illegal war in 2003. Let's tack on how many innocent Europeans have been killed in terror attacks in the last 14 years and I'd say it's fair to say Tony Blair is responsible for close to, if not more, 1 million civilian deaths world wide and let's not forget he faked evidence and lied to achieve that. Also remind yourselves his government oversaw the financial crash of 2008 and then he promptly jumped ship, somehow became a Middle East peace envoy and funnelled millions and millions of £ from his speaking engagements and property empire through a web of offshore companies to avoid paying tax.

Those of you saying he was the best PM you've seen or would be glad to have him back seriously need to question your sense of humanity and wonder what it really is you see in this self serving narcissist, and yes, war criminal.

To solely blame Blair for all the above is pretty ludicrous.
Iraq and parts of the middle East were already a complete mess.

[lyonhibs]

To solely blame Blair for all the above is pretty ludicrous.
Iraq and parts of the middle East were already a complete mess.

He also "oversaw" the banking crisis of '08.

Which seems reasonable.....

[Bishop Hibee]

He was instrumental in setting up the Scottish Parliament and the NI and Welsh Assemblies. He also oversaw the introduction of the minimum wage. Both big positives in my opinion. On the other side of the coin are the Iraq war and his obsession with neoliberal policies such as PFI.

Certainly a lot better than that nugget Cameron and the robotic out of her depth May.

[Colr]

He also "oversaw" the banking crisis of '08.

Which seems reasonable.....

The one that originated in the USA and swept the global banking system?