Offside

[madhatter]

Maybe I missed something but just to check...

Can you be so far offside that you become onside? Like if you take your offsidedness to extreme lengths...

[CapitalGreen]

Depends if the officials deemed the attacker to have deliberately played the ball forward.

Looked to me as if Forsters clearance rebounded off the Raith player into the attackers path.

[Northernhibee]

Garry O'Connor was a million miles offside for his assist in Sparky's goal in the 2012 semi final against Aberdeen. Still amazes me he got away with it :greengrin

[California-Hibs]

I was astonished the flag never went up!

[ArmadaleHibs]

From were I was sat in the west upper it looked so far offside it was untrue. It all happened so fast and I had an eye on forsters tackle just before the ball went through but it still looked massively offside.

[Kato]

Of course. It's like the rule if you kick a Hibs player really hard. no just hard, it's not a foul. Or if you roll the ball around in the box with your hand for a few seconds rather than just handle it, it's not a pen.

[brog]

Depends if the officials deemed the attacker to have deliberately played the ball forward.

Looked to me as if Forsters clearance rebounded off the Raith player into the attackers path.

Not sure if you're having a larf here but accidental or deliberate makes no difference.

[madhatter]

Depends if the officials deemed the attacker to have deliberately played the ball forward.

Looked to me as if Forsters clearance rebounded off the Raith player into the attackers path.

How is that any different to Murray being fouled in the box and his leg playing the ball to Graham when he is falling? From my view it was a penalty (not given) then the boy falls and didn't look like he intended to pass to Graham but because the ball hit off him it landed to Graham and was called offside.

No excuse and I think it depended more on whether the linesman was 10-15 yards behind play (incidentally he was right in front of me and regularly was miles off the pace and clearly seemed to be daydreaming hence flailing attempts to get a sub on even though our entire bench was shouting "lino").

[ColinNish]

Of course. It's like the rule if you kick a Hibs player really hard. no just hard, it's not a foul. Or if you roll the ball around in the box with your hand for a few seconds rather than just handle it, it's not a pen.

Lolz :greengrin

[Hibee87]

Just seen it on ssn, it's onside.

McLean is running out at raith boy times the run and through ball perfectly.

[Scouse Hibee]

It was so far offside it actually happened yesterday.

[lumbo_hfc]

Thought at the time it looked onside. Right in line with it, McLean tries to come out while Hardie is going the other way. A lot of people around me thought the opposite so I'd like to see it again!

[StevieCowan]

Onside, hats off to the west stand lino for getting that right.

[madhatter]

Thought at the time it looked onside. Right in line with it, McLean tries to come out while Hardie is going the other way. A lot of people around me thought the opposite so I'd like to see it again!

Was it even Hardie that got the ball? I think your recollection of events should be questioned!

[madhatter]

Onside, hats off to the west stand lino for getting that right.

Fair enough if it was. It was one of those calls that I've always seen given as offside.

[madhatter]

Just seen it on ssn, it's onside.

McLean is running out at raith boy times the run and through ball perfectly.

SSN have tampered with the footage!

[lumbo_hfc]

Was it even Hardie that got the ball? I think your recollection of events should be questioned!

Could be wrong with names. Whoever it was looked inside though. That's my point. Again, could be wrong with that and was definitely doubting myself when the amount of people around about me started going crazy at the lino

[Jonnyboy]

Probably thought they were referring to Kirkcaldy.

:greengrin :top marks

[lumbo_hfc]

Fair enough if it was. It was one of those calls that I've always seen given as offside.

Always given offside? Even if it's onside? Heard it all now!

[Bishop Hibee]

Looked a mile offside but McLean played them onside most of the evening so not surprised. Last game he'll play for us.

[madhatter]

Always given offside? Even if it's onside? Heard it all now!

Have you? I've only heard certain things and only been certain places. Have you heard it all, done it all and been places too? I'm jealous.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Looked a mile offside but McLean played them onside most of the evening so not surprised. Last game he'll play for us.

Hate to be critical of any Hibs player but that laddie is not a footballer. In fact, as a 35 year old unfit never been, he makes me think I could still make it professionally.

[Centre Hawf]

Hate to be critical of any Hibs player but that laddie is not a footballer. In fact, as a 35 year old unfit never been, he makes me think I could still make it professionally. I thought he done well tonight and against Dunfermline. Not sure the criticism is justified. Also I thought he was onside fwiw.

[ancient hibee]

Thought McLean looked as if he hadn't played much.Often on the wrong side and a few weak clearing headers.

[Scouse Hibee]

I thought he done well tonight and against Dunfermline. Not sure the criticism is justified. Also I thought he was onside fwiw.

Me too, not bad for a stand in.

[lumbo_hfc]

Looked a mile offside but McLean played them onside most of the evening so not surprised. Last game he'll play for us.

Very harsh on McLean. Can tell he's not played a lot of football recently. Would hate to see your opinion on Forster, who was considerably worse.

[Onion]

If it was onside, then fair play to the Raith lad. However, throughout this season the "assistant referees" in this division have consistently failed to get even the simplest, most basic of decisions right. So, when one of them manages to get a really tough call right, you've got to assume he was guessing and gave any benefit of the doubt to Raith, through choice.

We can only dream of one of these linos giving Hibs a decision like that :rolleyes:

[flash]

Just watched the highlights and he looks miles offside. I must be missing something.

[HFCdeb]

Didn't look offside from where I was standing in the East and I was surprised to see people questioning it online after the match.
Our penalty claim that was waved away for offside was an utterly baffling decision, however.

[MartinfaePorty]

McLean was at least 2 yards behind the rest of the defence all night. Given that it was a brand new back 3 I'll give him some leeway in this but communication should have been better given he's an experienced professional.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Bishop Hibee]

Very harsh on McLean. Can tell he's not played a lot of football recently. Would hate to see your opinion on Forster, who was considerably worse.

I wouldn't shed a tear if Forster goes.

[Blaster]

I wouldn't shed a tear if Forster goes.

Not sure what people expect from 4th and 5th choice centre halfs. If either were likely to start most games I'd be more concerned but as backups they do ok

McLean will leave anyway and one of the younger lads take his place as backup

[Bayern Bru]

Not sure what people expect from 4th and 5th choice centre halfs. If either were likely to start most games I'd be more concerned but as backups they do ok

McLean will leave anyway and one of the younger lads take his place as backup

Ryan Porteous has been very impressive for the dev squad :agree:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Nobody is totally sure what is onside and what is offside under the current rule. All this active/inactive; onside at one moment, offside the next. It's become totally subjective. I'd be in favour of a return to the rule that any team member in an offside position means the whistle goes.

[hibbysam]

Nobody is totally sure what is onside and what is offside under the current rule. All this active/inactive; onside at one moment, offside the next. It's become totally subjective. I'd be in favour of a return to the rule that any team member in an offside position means the whistle goes.

It's really not that difficult. Your either offside or your not.

Any part of your body that can score in front of a defender, offside.
Attempt to play the ball, offside.

Nothing subjective about it.

Last night's is only being spoken about as it happened so quickly, our boy running out, their boy sprinting in, so within milliseconds there was about 10-15 yards between them. I thought it was onside at the time, and a very difficult call for the linesman to make.

If you return to your rule then the game would be a waste of time. Someones tying their lace in the box, offside. Good tackle which the striker takes a few extra seconds to get up from, offside. Game would never be started.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's really not that difficult. Your either offside or your not.

Any part of your body that can score in front of a defender, offside.
Attempt to play the ball, offside.

Nothing subjective about it.

Last night's is only being spoken about as it happened so quickly, our boy running out, their boy sprinting in, so within milliseconds there was about 10-15 yards between them. I thought it was onside at the time, and a very difficult call for the linesman to make.

If you return to your rule then the game would be a waste of time. Someones tying their lace in the box, offside. Good tackle which the striker takes a few extra seconds to get up from, offside. Game would never be started.

But surely the active/inactive idea means it is subjective? A player who is deemed offside can suddenly become onside at another phase of play. The game wasn't a waste of time before the rule changes. I would prefer a return to the old system personally. It was much clearer.

[brog]

But surely the active/inactive idea means it is subjective? A player who is deemed offside can suddenly become onside at another phase of play. The game wasn't a waste of time before the rule changes. I would prefer a return to the old system personally.

The rules haven't really changed, it's more the guidance that has changed. At all times a player in an offside position was only deemed to be offside if they were actively seeking to interfere with play. I forget exact wording now as it's over 30 years since I took my badge. Unfortunately the interpretation of that rule was eroded over the years to the ridiculous extent that a winger cutting the ball back for a player to score was being given offside. I saw that exact scenario in a game at Crystal Palace. The clarifications that came in a number of years ago have IMO greatly benefited the game by allowing goals that 'wrongly' would have been called offside previously. As usual however players, managers & often commentators, ( Alan Parry is an idiot ) are the last to know the rules & end up wrongly complaining about a correct decision. I agree the phase of play situation can on occasion be confusing but IMO that's a small price to pay for us finally applying the rules (laws) in the manner in which they were originally intended.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The rules haven't really changed, it's more the guidance that has changed. At all times a player in an offside position was only deemed to be offside if they were actively seeking to interfere with play. I forget exact wording now as it's over 30 years since I took my badge. Unfortunately the interpretation of that rule was eroded over the years to the ridiculous extent that a winger cutting the ball back for a player to score was being given offside. I saw that exact scenario in a game at Crystal Palace. The clarifications that came in a number of years ago have IMO greatly benefited the game by allowing goals that 'wrongly' would have been called offside previously. As usual however players, managers & often commentators, ( Alan Parry is an idiot ) are the last to know the rules & end up wrongly complaining about a correct decision. I agree the phase of play situation can on occasion be confusing but IMO that's a small price to pay for us finally applying the rules (laws) in the manner in which they were originally intended.

Cheers for that, brog. I do agree it muddies the waters when the so called experts don't seem to know the rules well and don't explain themselves well. I didn't know it was old system which was getting it wrong; exactly my point, it's confusing :greengrin

[Allant1981]

i paused the highlights a few times and it looks like he is just onside at the goal, timed it very well but the defence should have seen it coming as they were high up the pitch

[wookie70]

i paused the highlights a few times and it looks like he is just onside at the goal, timed it very well but the defence should have seen it coming as they were high up the pitch Agreed, he was onside whether it was 1980 rules or current rules.

[hibbysam]

Agreed, he was onside whether it was 1980 rules or current rules.

Indeed. As I said it only looks terrible due to the speed our defenders were going out, and the speed he was going in the other direction, putting 10-15 yards between them in a matter of milliseconds.

[greenlex]

The rules haven't really changed, it's more the guidance that has changed. At all times a player in an offside position was only deemed to be offside if they were actively seeking to interfere with play. I forget exact wording now as it's over 30 years since I took my badge. Unfortunately the interpretation of that rule was eroded over the years to the ridiculous extent that a winger cutting the ball back for a player to score was being given offside. I saw that exact scenario in a game at Crystal Palace. The clarifications that came in a number of years ago have IMO greatly benefited the game by allowing goals that 'wrongly' would have been called offside previously. As usual however players, managers & often commentators, ( Alan Parry is an idiot ) are the last to know the rules & end up wrongly complaining about a correct decision. I agree the phase of play situation can on occasion be confusing but IMO that's a small price to pay for us finally applying the rules (laws) in the manner in which they were originally intended. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a player cuts the ball back for a player to score and us then deemed offside. Wouldn't be under old rule or new. Can you elaborate?

[brog]

Cheers for that, brog. I do agree it muddies the waters when the so called experts don't seem to know the rules well and don't explain themselves well. I didn't know it was old system which was getting it wrong; exactly my point, it's confusing :greengrin.

Thanks, I really meant to say the principle of the law hadn't changed but you understood my garbled message anyway! The 1st major changes for a long time occurred in early 90's IIRC when level became onside & many further tweaks followed on soon after, especially the clarification about actively seeking to interfere with play. The stuff about which parts of the body constitutes being offside happened much more recently & seems unnecessarily complex & a bit ridiculous but it's all intended to help which is good!

[brog]

I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a player cuts the ball back for a player to score and us then deemed offside. Wouldn't be under old rule or new. Can you elaborate?

I was at Crystal Palace vs Sunderland in the 1980's when that happened. Stan Cummins, the 1st £1m pound man, beat about 3 Palace players & cut the ball back from the byline & quite close to the goal. When the player scored Cummins was behind the last Palace defender. The lino, who was on the far side, saw the sunderland jersey ( Cummins ) in an 'offside' position, raised his flag & the goal was (wrongly) disallowed. On the same day ( IIRC) there was a controversial goal in the LC final at Wembley when Sammy Lee (in an offside position) ducked & Alan Kennedy's shot went in & was allowed. The ref was the infamous Clive Thomas! The fuss which arose from those 2 incidents helped bring about the subsequent clarifications to the laws.

[MB62]

I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a player cuts the ball back for a player to score and us then deemed offside. Wouldn't be under old rule or new. Can you elaborate?

Fir Park v Motherwell, Pat McGinlay rounds the last defender, passes the ball forward past the outcoming keeper and Micky Weir runs forward and knocks it in to the net. Linesman immediately flags for offside for Weir, despite the fact he was BEHIND the ball when Pat played him in.

On Sunday on Sportscene (or whatever it was) they had the referees supervisor on (Cummings I think?) explaining why it was offside.

NAW, Weir was BEHIND the ball, so it was ONSIDE, doesn't matter if the ball was played back, forward or sideways. I'm sure it cost us a win that day as it was late on in the game.