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View Full Version : Martin Boyle - dive or be honest?



sauzee6_2
23-04-2017, 05:05 PM
I'm interested to know people's thoughts on the potential penalty / free kick yesterday.

Do people think he should have dived to win the penalty or stay on his feet and be honest?

On one hand it may have given us a lifeline, but on the other it may have set a poor example to youngsters watching.

Personally I would rather he was honest and show Hibs class - however I fear I'm in the minority.

oldbutdim
23-04-2017, 05:08 PM
I don't like cheats.

sauzee6_2
23-04-2017, 05:12 PM
I don't like cheats.

Would it have been cheating?

Northernhibee
23-04-2017, 05:13 PM
If it wins a penalty that wins us the game I don't care. It's cheating if you get caught diving, otherwise it's making the most of any contact.

Pete
23-04-2017, 05:14 PM
I think it was outside the box anyway.

Just Jimmy
23-04-2017, 05:14 PM
Make the ref make a decision. They never give it on your feet and no chance a sheep player stays up.

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Danderhall Hibs
23-04-2017, 05:15 PM
Shouted at the time for him to go down - before I realised that he was never getting to the ball.

Got to go down to get free kicks - so got to play the game.

hibsbollah
23-04-2017, 05:17 PM
Dive every time.

wookie70
23-04-2017, 05:18 PM
If the defender trips you enough to make you fall over then do, if he doesn't then don't. I love the way Hibs fans reacted when Fyvie and Jason got done for diving. Let's show some class.

Dalianwanda
23-04-2017, 05:20 PM
Does it have to be so black and white? you get caught you fall down or stay up. it's the getting caught bit that matters. refs decision whether the getting caught is a foul or not

cookin_on_gaz
23-04-2017, 05:21 PM
Lennon was fizzing mad at him straight after it so you could say he is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt. I thought he was unlucky that his touch took the ball just out his reach.

hibee
23-04-2017, 05:22 PM
He should have went down but don't agree it would have been a dive.

Unseen work
23-04-2017, 05:27 PM
It was a brilliant tackle from Taylor.

I dare say he wish he went down, but if it's not in your nature it's a very hard thing to do in real time.

Fergus52
23-04-2017, 05:30 PM
It was a brilliant tackle from Taylor.

I dare say he wish he went down, but if it's not in your nature it's a very hard thing to do in real time.

Was it?

Looked to me like Boyle gets the ball before him and Taylor doesn't touch it. In which case it's a pretty reckless mistimed tackle, should be a foul whether Boyle dives or not.

Whether it was inside or outside the box is another matter

oldbutdim
23-04-2017, 05:33 PM
Would it have been cheating?

Seriously?

The question was should he dive.
Of course it's cheating.

Making cheating something to be lauded is just mental.

Broken Gnome
23-04-2017, 05:33 PM
I'd love to be a genius who could instinctively work out their best chance of a good outcome is either....

- That they are just outside the box so could potentially bag a red card and a free kick, or..

- The ball's within reach and they could still possibly beat the keeper to it.

Danderhall Hibs
23-04-2017, 05:35 PM
I'd love to be a genius who could instinctively work out their best chance of a good outcome is either....

- That they are just outside the box so could potentially bag a red card and a free kick, or..

- The ball's within reach and they could still possibly beat the keeper to it.

Griffiths worked it out today - you could see him thinking get there first and it's a pen.

hibbysam
23-04-2017, 05:35 PM
Seriously?

The question was should he dive.
Of course it's cheating.

Making cheating something to be lauded is just mental.

But it wouldn't have been a dive. He would've been cropped had he not jumped over the defender.

oldbutdim
23-04-2017, 05:37 PM
Read the question again. Should he have dived.

No.

J-C
23-04-2017, 05:47 PM
There was contact, not a lot but slightly, he lost balance just a wee bit and carried on, he could easily have went down when he felt the contact.

matty_f
23-04-2017, 05:55 PM
I wish we had referees that gave the foul if the player doesn't go down.

Slim Shady
23-04-2017, 05:58 PM
Shouldn't have dived. Will never agree with diving.

A more experienced player would've taken the hit though. Slow down and make sure Taylor brings you down. I don't think it would've been a pen but a certain free kick which we are dangerous from and a red card.

jeffers
23-04-2017, 06:01 PM
It was a brilliant challenge from Taylor who won the ball and it rebounded off Martin Boyle towards the keeper. Whether he had dived or not it wasn't a foul and wasn't in the box anyway. Tho with the incompetence of our officials who knows what decision would have been given if he had dived.

makaveli1875
23-04-2017, 06:08 PM
if he had dived , got a penalty and won us the game would anyone seriously be complaining

Danderhall Hibs
23-04-2017, 06:09 PM
if he had dived , got a penalty and won us the game would anyone seriously be complaining

I have no doubt about that. Some would've either walked out or turned their backs on it in disgust.

green day
23-04-2017, 06:12 PM
if he had dived , got a penalty and won us the game would anyone seriously be complaining

What? After the noise we made about that cheat Oyenuga?

We don't need to cheat, if we get a questionable decision, so be it but FFS don't advocate Hibs players doing the "Jamie Walker".

Edit - appreciate you are not saying that

heretoday
23-04-2017, 06:14 PM
May as well dive. When in Rome.

DavidDavidGray
23-04-2017, 06:24 PM
Wish he had dived. Normally I'm against diving and like when players get done for it, but in a game like that we needed something to equalise

Unseen work
23-04-2017, 06:28 PM
Was it?

Looked to me like Boyle gets the ball before him and Taylor doesn't touch it. In which case it's a pretty reckless mistimed tackle, should be a foul whether Boyle dives or not.

Whether it was inside or outside the box is another matter


Yes, if you watch the close up highlights you can see Taylor gets there before Boyle and actually kicks the ball off Boyle's shin making it run through to the keeper.

Broken Gnome
23-04-2017, 06:29 PM
Griffiths worked it out today - you could see him thinking get there first and it's a pen.

Haven't seen it, but difference here is Taylor always had a chance of getting a touch and Boyle probably wasn't in the box. Lesser benefits to going down deliberately.

Danderhall Hibs
23-04-2017, 06:33 PM
Haven't seen it, but difference here is Taylor always had a chance of getting a touch and Boyle probably wasn't in the box. Lesser benefits to going down deliberately.

I know you've not seen it yet but Tavernier had a chance today as well. Griffiths clocked it and made sure he got their first to "win" the penalty.

Eyrie
23-04-2017, 06:55 PM
Boyle did the right thing, although I wouldn't have complained if he had tripped over the defender's legs.

Let's face it, we've seen more blatant dives outside the box rewarded with a penalty at Hampden when the referee had a clear view of the incident.

snooky
23-04-2017, 09:14 PM
Let's win honestly. We can't complain about other players diving if we condone this unsporting behaviour if done by our own.
Hibs class - no cheaters in our team thank you.

greenlex
23-04-2017, 09:32 PM
All the top players in the world would have made sure there was contact and hit the deck. Doesn't make it right but that's what would have happened.

The Leith Dutch
23-04-2017, 10:41 PM
Make the ref make a decision. They never give it on your feet and no chance a sheep player stays up.

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Peter Pawlett. That is all.

500miles
24-04-2017, 08:01 AM
Why does a centre forward get his body between the ball and the defender? To ensure he either keeps the ball, or gets the foul. There's nothing wrong with drawing the foul, and if you're illegally impeded, you should go down rather than chase a lost cause. It's not cheating, it's what the laws of the game are for.

RamYer1902
24-04-2017, 09:23 AM
Defender lunged in and didn't win ball but Boyle jumped.
If Boyle had just shown a bit of heart in that situation and touched the ball he'd have been cleaned out and we had a penalty.
I'm not slating Martin for being honest but in that circumstance, all he had to do was take a sore one and we had a spot kick.


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Keyser Sauzee
24-04-2017, 10:22 AM
Integrity is slipping out of the game more and more every week and I hate it, and I hate the excuses for it even more. I don't think that "contact" should be enough of a reason to give penalties or free kicks, it has to be enough so that said player cannot stay up or is impeded enough to lose the ball without the defender fairly winning it in my eyes. I'm glad he didn't dive.

hibbysam
24-04-2017, 10:37 AM
Integrity is slipping out of the game more and more every week and I hate it, and I hate the excuses for it even more. I don't think that "contact" should be enough of a reason to give penalties or free kicks, it has to be enough so that said player cannot stay up or is impeded enough to lose the ball without the defender fairly winning it in my eyes. I'm glad he didn't dive.

He wouldn't have dived, had he carried on running the defender was wiping him out. No need to jump over it at all. Not sure why this is even being discussed. Schalk dived, Hippolyte dived, Boyle would have been wiped into next week without jumping.

Geo_1875
24-04-2017, 10:40 AM
Integrity is slipping out of the game more and more every week and I hate it, and I hate the excuses for it even more. I don't think that "contact" should be enough of a reason to give penalties or free kicks, it has to be enough so that said player cannot stay up or is impeded enough to lose the ball without the defender fairly winning it in my eyes. I'm glad he didn't dive.

Agree totally with this. Never understood how a player like Steven Gerrard made a career out of being "entitled to go down". I don't want to see that at Hibs

Andy74
24-04-2017, 10:45 AM
He should have went down but don't agree it would have been a dive.

Yes, this is the point, you don't want to see players simulating the fact there has been a foul when there wasn't one, however, that is different to making it clear when you have actually been fouled at times.

Keyser Sauzee
24-04-2017, 10:46 AM
He wouldn't have dived, had he carried on running the defender was wiping him out. No need to jump over it at all. Not sure why this is even being discussed. Schalk dived, Hippolyte dived, Boyle would have been wiped into next week without jumping.

Fair enough, I was more talking about how people on here have said they would be happy for a player to dive aslong as Hibs benefit from it. I want to see diving and cheating as a whole ripped out the game, no time for it.

SlickShoes
24-04-2017, 10:49 AM
Beaton would never have given it anyway

dalkeith stu
24-04-2017, 10:51 AM
He wouldn't have dived, had he carried on running the defender was wiping him out. No need to jump over it at all. Not sure why this is even being discussed. Schalk dived, Hippolyte dived, Boyle would have been wiped into next week without jumping.

100%, because he jumped the challenge he had no chance of getting to the ball before the keeper.

eastcoasthibby
24-04-2017, 11:10 AM
Make the ref make a decision. They never give it on your feet and no chance a sheep player stays up.

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Absolutely this ...every game there are poor decisions made about incidents like this and whilst the consensus us that they balance out I am not sure they do ..in my tinted view ...every other team does it so why not us ? I think he was too honest and possibly was even held back a bit ...but either way get the incomptetent one to make a decision ...

-Jonesy-
24-04-2017, 11:13 AM
Would you be happy if one of our players tried this?
https://twitter.com/talkingbaws/status/856445525062713344

WeeRussell
24-04-2017, 12:12 PM
I know you've not seen it yet but Tavernier had a chance today as well. Griffiths clocked it and made sure he got their first to "win" the penalty.

Would have to watch it again before fully disagreeing with you - but from what I remember, I think Griffiths got there as quickly as he could with the intention of taking a touch and then scoring... before the Hun dud came in and wiped him out.

Like I said, maybe I'll change my mind watching it again, but I'm not sure a penalty is what was on Griffith's mind.

Wilson
24-04-2017, 12:20 PM
Dive every time.

I don't like diving.

However, if everyone else is diving and gaining advantage from it then there is no benefit to being the one honest team.

Danderhall Hibs
24-04-2017, 12:28 PM
Would have to watch it again before fully disagreeing with you - but from what I remember, I think Griffiths got there as quickly as he could with the intention of taking a touch and then scoring... before the Hun dud came in and wiped him out.

Like I said, maybe I'll change my mind watching it again, but I'm not sure a penalty is what was on Griffith's mind.


Looked to me like he knew he was about to get clattered so got their first to ensure the pen - his touch was heavy and took the ball away. He wasn't bothered though - he got what he wanted.

Danderhall Hibs
24-04-2017, 12:29 PM
Yes, this is the point, you don't want to see players simulating the fact there has been a foul when there wasn't one, however, that is different to making it clear when you have actually been fouled at times.

I think this is the point I'm trying to get across. That and make sure you get fouled - Boyle jumped the challenge, if he had stood his ground he was getting cleaned out.

WeeRussell
24-04-2017, 12:38 PM
Looked to me like he knew he was about to get clattered so got their first to ensure the pen - his touch was heavy and took the ball away. He wasn't bothered though - he got what he wanted.

I'll take your word for it as I was very hungover when watching :greengrin

I agree with your point though - absolutely nothing wrong with being clever and playing for a foul or inviting a challenge. It's not cheating or sportsmanship or anything else if the opponent chooses to lunge in and clean you out.

hibsbollah
24-04-2017, 12:41 PM
I don't like diving.

However, if everyone else is diving and gaining advantage from it then there is no benefit to being the one honest team.

Its just a reflection of human nature. Embrace the dark side:agree:

Hibernia&Alba
24-04-2017, 12:51 PM
If a player actively chooses to go down, even if there is some contact, that's diving and cheating. There's far too much of it now; in fact it's become accepted. Contact needn't always be a foul.

Eyrie
24-04-2017, 01:19 PM
If a player actively chooses to go down, even if there is some contact, that's diving and cheating. There's far too much of it now; in fact it's become accepted. Contact needn't always be a foul.

Conversely, referees need to be willing to award fouls or hand out yellow cards for deliberate attempts at fouls when a player does make the effort to stay on his feet and continue the game. Positive play needs to be encouraged every bit as much as diving and "professional fouls" need to be punished.

HibbiesandtheBaddies
24-04-2017, 01:19 PM
It's a moot point...

Beaton is a biased Hun toerag who has given us heehaw this season. This is the fud who blew for half time when we were 3 on 3.

Hibernia&Alba
24-04-2017, 01:22 PM
Conversely, referees need to be willing to award fouls or hand out yellow cards for deliberate attempts at fouls when a player does make the effort to stay on his feet and continue the game. Positive play needs to be encouraged every bit as much as diving and "professional fouls" need to be punished.

Yes, agreed.

erin go bragh
24-04-2017, 03:02 PM
It's no diving, it's being clever . If there is contact ( which there was ) yes Boyle should have fell . But he must have felt he could have scored but sadly he couldn't reach the ball .
As we didn't gain any advantage, the ref should have awarded us the free kick/ pen ( well we are due one that's just outside I'd say )

JimBHibees
24-04-2017, 03:12 PM
It's no diving, it's being clever . If there is contact ( which there was ) yes Boyle should have fell . But he must have felt he could have scored but sadly he couldn't reach the ball .
As we didn't gain any advantage, the ref should have awarded us the free kick/ pen ( well we are due one that's just outside I'd say )

I think he thought he could get the ball but it ran through to the goalie. Also thought Taylor may have got a toe to the ball so maybe wouldnt have been a foul anyway especially with the particular official in charge.

southern hibby
24-04-2017, 03:12 PM
Integrity is slipping out of the game more and more every week and I hate it, and I hate the excuses for it even more. I don't think that "contact" should be enough of a reason to give penalties or free kicks, it has to be enough so that said player cannot stay up or is impeded enough to lose the ball without the defender fairly winning it in my eyes. I'm glad he didn't dive.

100% this,

I'd also add that it makes it worse that commentators say "there was contact" as if it was the players God given right to go down and get a penalty. because of their comments it make the game the way it is going and shaping the game into what it is.

GGTTH

where'stheslope
24-04-2017, 03:16 PM
Two things for me in this debate:

1 The challenge on Boyle was off his feet and was taking the player out regardless of whether he got the ball or not, so could have been a red card for excessive force?

2 If you watch Sportscene you'll see players diving every week, most are picked up and shown, but for other reasons the uglies seem to escape most of this type of thing. I have even seen the pundits siding with them rather than call it out!!!!