Lennon - Winner,.What does that mean next year

[wookie70]

Lots of threads about the pros and cons of Lennon with some polarised views. I'm in the not sure camp but a common argument with those that love Lennon is that he is a "winner". Those sure about Lennon say that winning the Championship proves he is a winner while the other side of the argument is he might get less points than Stubbs and possibly lose and draw more games than he won.

We won't win the league next year barring a miracle or Saudi Prince joining HSL so what will a "winner" look like in terms of league position. I would say a "winner" would finish second possibly third, a decent manager would finish fourth to sixth and someone who is not doing their job, presumably a loser, would be bottom six. For what it's worth I don't think "winner" means anything but would view the three categories above as successful, decent and poor.

[Eyrie]

Lots of threads about the pros and cons of Lennon with some polarised views. I'm in the not sure camp but a common argument with those that love Lennon is that he is a "winner". Those sure about Lennon say that winning the Championship proves he is a winner while the other side of the argument is he might get less points than Stubbs and possibly lose and draw more games than he won.

We won't win the league next year barring a miracle or Saudi Prince joining HSL so what will a "winner" look like in terms of league position. I would say a "winner" would finish second possibly third, a decent manager would finish fourth to sixth and someone who is not doing their job, presumably a loser, would be bottom six. For what it's worth I don't think "winner" means anything but would view the three categories above as successful, decent and poor.

A fair summation of our expectations for next season.

[Ozyhibby]

Top 3, 4 at a push. That's where our budget will be so anything less is failure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

Being a winner next season could mean a few things, we could win a cup, either cup. Finish in a European place would also mean we've won a place in Europe.

Anything less and you are not really a winner in my opinion, i dont class winning a place in the top 6 as actually winning anything.

[18Hibee75]

A good "winning" season for us next season IMO, would be second or third, and a league or Scottish cup (or both!)

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

[1875M]

Top 4 and a decent cup run would be a good season IMO

[Vini1875]

I think the point about Lenny is that he does not expect to win every game and get a treble next year, but that he expects is the players to play to their ability every game. Yesterday was a classic example of players who we know are much better than the mistakes they made. That they made mistakes through lapses in concentration or poor decision making is what angers him so much.

I think he would accept defeats if the team gave everything over 90 minutes not 60. He will set a target at the start of the season and expect the players to reach it. A lot will depend on who he is able to recruit and if the board match his ambition. I think his ambition would be a trophy and Europe, it certainly is my hope, also beating beating both the OF and a whitewash of the jambos. If was the on the board that is what I'd be asking for and he would be well within his rights to say give me the money for the calibre of player to achieve that.

None of us expect to win the league, but we do expect top six, we do expect a trip or two to Hampden. I bet Lenny is looking for more than that.

[wookie70]

I think the point about Lenny is that he does not expect to win every game and get a treble next year, but that he expects is the players to play to their ability every game. Yesterday was a classic example of players who we know are much better than the mistakes they made. That they made mistakes through lapses in concentration or poor decision making is what angers him so much.

I think he would accept defeats if the team gave everything over 90 minutes not 60. He will set a target at the start of the season and expect the players to reach it. A lot will depend on who he is able to recruit and if the board match his ambition. I think his ambition would be a trophy and Europe, it certainly is my hope, also beating beating both the OF and a whitewash of the jambos. If was the on the board that is what I'd be asking for and he would be well within his rights to say give me the money for the calibre of player to achieve that.

None of us expect to win the league, but we do expect top six, we do expect a trip or two to Hampden. I bet Lenny is looking for more than that.

He may be looking for more, he already says we are the second best team in Scotland but where will we have to finish for him to be a "winner". From what you are saying Lennon will be a winner if his team plays at top performance levels and gets beat. If the players don't perform at their full ability it is their fault and it might be the board's fault if he doesn't meet his goals - again Lennon would not be at fault. What would Lennon have to do to not be classed a winner or is it always someone else's fault.

I have no issue with him setting his sights high but surely he only gets credit for achievements not just "looking for more". To paraphrase the game is played on grass not in the media.

[Roxyhibee]

Any trip to Hampden, dominating the Cheats and top 4 would be a happy winning year.

All are very achievable with some new faces and Lennon at the helm, and we surely know now that there is not one team in that SPL outside Celtic who are going to be better than us. We'll be on a par with one or two in terms of strength but should fear absolutely no one. I'm very excited about next season.

A second place finish in the league.? Possible..

[MWHIBBIES]

We weren't great the first season after being promoted before.

I think we'll struggle in some games with the pace difference but we'll finish top 6 and have a trip to Hampden in one of the cups. 2nd season up is the one I'd hope we're pushing for Europe and trophies.

All depends on the quality we bring in. If we get Stokes and a midfielder/winger of real quality than can bring us 10/15 goals then we could well be pushing top 2/3.

[Sir David Gray]

We need to get this "top six ambition" pish out of our heads for next season.

That isn't a target that anyone at Hibs should be looking at or particularly proud of. Finishing sixth will mean that a club such as St Johnstone or Partick Thistle has finished above us and that, for me, isn't acceptable and isn't the definition of a winner's mentality.

The top six has only been described as a credible target by the media due to the design of the league by the fact that it splits in half after 33 games into a top/bottom six. That is all.

For as long as Aberdeen remain the second best team in the country, we need to be targetting second place. We proved yesterday that we have a bigger support than them, we also proved for 60 minutes that we are a match for them on the pitch as well. We have the financial power to match them, we have the infrastructure in place to match them and we have the fanbase to match them.

If Sevco get their act together then of course they have far bigger resources than us and will be the second best team in the country, just like their predecessors. If that happens then I would expect us to be third.

If we are serious about having a real winning mentality at the club then we need to be targetting second or third place in the Premiership on a regular basis, building our reputation as a club that qualifies for Europe most seasons and consistently get ourselves through to Hampden in the cups. We absolutely need to get this idea of just being a "top six side" as something to be proud of out of our heads as it's not something to celebrate as far as I'm concerned.

[Borderhibbie76]

Being a winner next season could mean a few things, we could win a cup, either cup. Finish in a European place would also mean we've won a place in Europe.

Anything less and you are not really a winner in my opinion, i dont class winning a place in the top 6 as actually winning anything.
Agreed a team of our size and budget should always be aiming for top 4 minimum....

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[flash]

I wonder if every promoted teams achievement is tarnished if they get less points than the season before in doing so.
Utter pish.

[Andy74]

I hope we as fans can remain ambitious but with a bit of realism thrown in - we will be adjusting after 3 years out and we weren't that hot when we were up there previously!

We all probably think that we have a top 3 or 4 squad but we've thought that before. The last thing we need is for expectation to be so high that the knives come out when we aren't quite at that level and we get a disunited club again looking for people to get sacked.

I'd be happy to consolidate and build the club properly so that we can be challenging for years to come, whether we do it next year or not isn't as important as continuing to build the team and club.

[Speedway]

Top 4 plus Semis or better in both cups and Euro qualification has to be the minimum.

We used to have this chat when Mixu was in charge as to what success or failure looked like for Hibs and both Mixu and Yogi said it was top six as a minimum.

My perception is that Lennon sees a bigger Hibs than many fans see or indeed isn't interested in a Hibs below the level that he sees.

I think that is where he earns his cash as a manager because I'm not convinced we're signing both the number and quality of players he has in mind (if Swanson is anything to go by) so he'll need to use the contacts that brought us the calibre of Marciano, Commons and Ambrose to get us challenging the top 4 next season.

[Bobby's Cinema]

There is a danger of expectations spiralling out of control if this is anything to go by. 4th would be a very good season for us as it would mean we'll have bumped one of hearts/Aberdeen/rangers. St Johnstone have also shown good consistency much as we might want to run them down, improvement needed to be any higher then 6th IMO.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Agreed a team of our size and budget should always be aiming for top 4 minimum....

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


A team of our size and budget should never have been in The Championship???

[Ozyhibby]

I hope we as fans can remain ambitious but with a bit of realism thrown in - we will be adjusting after 3 years out and we weren't that hot when we were up there previously!

We all probably think that we have a top 3 or 4 squad but we've thought that before. The last thing we need is for expectation to be so high that the knives come out when we aren't quite at that level and we get a disunited club again looking for people to get sacked.

I'd be happy to consolidate and build the club properly so that we can be challenging for years to come, whether we do it next year or not isn't as important as continuing to build the team and club.

That is just conditioning yourself for failure. There is no reason why we can't challenge Aberdeen this season.
What sort of adjusting do the players need? If they need time to adjust, maybe we should get players who don't need time to adjust? We have good players there now who are capable of playing in a top 3 side. We need to add quality to that in the summer.
Talk of consolidation is loser talk. The yams and Sevco both got top3 finishes after promotion and there was no consolidation talk coming from them.
We kept a prem infrastructure and squad this whole time so there should be no need for adjustment.
Our player budget will be in the top 4 in Scotland and it's where we should be as well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

I hope we as fans can remain ambitious but with a bit of realism thrown in - we will be adjusting after 3 years out and we weren't that hot when we were up there previously!

We all probably think that we have a top 3 or 4 squad but we've thought that before. The last thing we need is for expectation to be so high that the knives come out when we aren't quite at that level and we get a disunited club again looking for people to get sacked.

I'd be happy to consolidate and build the club properly so that we can be challenging for years to come, whether we do it next year or not isn't as important as continuing to build the team and club.

It will be Lennon's job to make sure we have the squad in place ready to hit the ground running, they should not need any sort of adjustment period. During the Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher years the call was always to give the latest new signings or manager time to settle in only they never did.
To consolidate is to stand still, why would we do that after seeing the club being driven forwards over the past three years? Everything we need is there to keep pushing on, we shouldn't hold back because we are afraid of the risk of failure.

[Andy74]

That is just conditioning yourself for failure. There is no reason why we can't challenge Aberdeen this season.
What sort of adjusting do the players need? If they need time to adjust, maybe we should get players who don't need time to adjust? We have good players there now who are capable of playing in a top 3 side. We need to add quality to that in the summer.
Talk of consolidation is loser talk. The yams and Sevco both got top3 finishes after promotion and there was no consolidation talk coming from them.
We kept a prem infrastructure and squad this whole time so there should be no need for adjustment.
Our player budget will be in the top 4 in Scotland and it's where we should be as well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get what you are saying but Hearts are an example - got carried away a bit by getting straight back into contention that the fans started noising up against Neilson, who was doing a good job, because they then believed they could do much better, and now they are sinking.

Using a recent example from us, Fenlon took over a team that could have been relegated, had them largely turned round, even if it wasn't always pretty, but we thought we could easily go from 11th to 3rd just like that with the squad we had, so we got restless and he went. we then got relegated.

What I'm seeing now is a lot of talk that is setting us up to hound Lennon next year if say we are 5th instead of 3rd.

Fine to be ambitious but lets not think everything and everyone needs changed if we find it tougher to come back up after 3 years than we think.

[SeanWilson]

I believe we've the budget, infrostructure and management in place to be 2nd (if Rangers do their recent usual and spend way over the odds on mediocre squad players). We played the current so called 2nd team in Scotland at the weekend and honestly, they were rank. If we can get some quality numbers in to the squad, we'll be ahead of hearts, Rangers and I'd like to think Aberdeen. So - why not 2nd?

[wookie70]

What I'm seeing now is a lot of talk that is setting us up to hound Lennon next year if say we are 5th instead of 3rd.

Fine to be ambitious but lets not think everything and everyone needs changed if we find it tougher to come back up after 3 years than we think.

To be fair Lennon's proclamation that we are already the second best team in the country isn't going to keep fans feet on the ground. Nothing against ambition but the foundation is surely knowing where you are starting from and what is likely to be achieved.

[Sir David Gray]

It will be Lennon's job to make sure we have the squad in place ready to hit the ground running, they should not need any sort of adjustment period. During the Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher years the call was always to give the latest new signings or manager time to settle in only they never did.
To consolidate is to stand still, why would we do that after seeing the club being driven forwards over the past three years? Everything we need is there to keep pushing on, we shouldn't hold back because we are afraid of the risk of failure.

:agree: Absolutely.

The favourite phrase on here pre-relegation was that we were going through a "transitional period" and had to give certain managers and players time to bed in etc etc.

The only problem was, we were the only team in the country that had transitional periods that lasted about 3 years and actually resulted in us getting worse.

We need to see us stamp our authority on the league next season, we need to act like a big club and act like we know that we're back where we belong.

We have the 3rd/4th biggest support in the country
We have one of the best training facilities in the country
We have one of the best stadiums in the country
We have very little debt to speak of
We have a settled squad with an experienced manager in place
We have the resources available to be able to improve the squad over the summer

There is absolutely no question that we should be looking to finish in the top four next season. That has to be the aim and I don't think that is asking too much when you consider all of the above.

[jakedance]

I've been going to Easter Road since the early 90's and we've finished third three times. It's difficult to define success for our club when we're historical underperformers.

[blackpoolhibs]

I've been going to Easter Road since the early 90's and we've finished third three times. It's difficult to define success for our club when we're historical underperformers.

We've been asked to be patient for far too long, there was always some reason or other why we needed to wait, its time the club delivered, that time is now.

[houstonhibbee]

We've been asked to be patient for far too long, there was always some reason or other why we needed to wait, its time the club delivered, that time is now.
for the first time in a long, long time we have got everything in place off the pitch to allow us to be successful on it at long last. There are no excuses left...............except the bloody corners to be filled in:greengrin

[SanFranHibs]

Being a winner next season could mean a few things, we could win a cup, either cup. Finish in a European place would also mean we've won a place in Europe.

Anything less and you are not really a winner in my opinion, i dont class winning a place in the top 6 as actually winning anything.

:agree:

A bad Hibs team should scrape the top 6.

Stating the obvious but a good start will help immensely and under Lennon might quickly build confidence within our squad that we could maintain a 2nd-4th position.

Regardless what has just happened the past few years finishing 6th is no great achievement for a club of Hibs stature.

It's onwards and upwards.

:flag::flag::flag:

[MWHIBBIES]

We've been asked to be patient for far too long, there was always some reason or other why we needed to wait, its time the club delivered, that time is now.Yeah, they should win the Scottish cup or something.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

We've been asked to be patient for far too long, there was always some reason or other why we needed to wait, its time the club delivered, that time is now.

:agree:

If we can't at least be a bit ambitious what's the point?
For too long it's been excuse after excuse, of course as a club we have almost always underachieved, but the way people tolerate it doesn't help. I hope that we can get away from the small-club mentality that was so prevalent on this board in the years of decline & mediocrity that led to their logical conclusion with relegation. We have massive advantages over most of the clubs in Scotland, it's time we start demanding we put them to use, that's not a lot to ask.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yeah, they should win the Scottish cup or something.

That would be great, i'd also like us to start punching our weight for a change, i mean Rods 5 year plan must be nearly up?

[Leith Green]

We need to get this "top six ambition" pish out of our heads for next season.

That isn't a target that anyone at Hibs should be looking at or particularly proud of. Finishing sixth will mean that a club such as St Johnstone or Partick Thistle has finished above us and that, for me, isn't acceptable and isn't the definition of a winner's mentality.

The top six has only been described as a credible target by the media due to the design of the league by the fact that it splits in half after 33 games into a top/bottom six. That is all.

For as long as Aberdeen remain the second best team in the country, we need to be targetting second place. We proved yesterday that we have a bigger support than them, we also proved for 60 minutes that we are a match for them on the pitch as well. We have the financial power to match them, we have the infrastructure in place to match them and we have the fanbase to match them.

If Sevco get their act together then of course they have far bigger resources than us and will be the second best team in the country, just like their predecessors. If that happens then I would expect us to be third.

If we are serious about having a real winning mentality at the club then we need to be targetting second or third place in the Premiership on a regular basis, building our reputation as a club that qualifies for Europe most seasons and consistently get ourselves through to Hampden in the cups. We absolutely need to get this idea of just being a "top six side" as something to be proud of out of our heads as it's not something to celebrate as far as I'm concerned.


I think your spot on with the points you make , especially this top 6 pish .. There is a gap between ourselves and the likes of Aberdeen and possibly the Huns at the moment but nothing that cannot be changed with good summer signings and a real belief that we can challenge up there next season.

[where'stheslope]

Last season's "SKOOSH" comes to mind!

Ambition is and always will be inevitable for all teams at the start of a new campaign, but were new to a better league than where we were.

The other teams have what it takes to survive in it, but maybe no ambition to realistically win it.

We have to first test ourselves on a weekly basis against those teams, as we found out in the last 2 seasons a good win against top opposition then bad results in the games after were not uncommon?

If we set the bar to high and we get a string of bad results, we could have the fans on the players backs as last season proved, so better to secure a stay in the league next season and not get to carried away with 2nd and 3rd talk.

Unless of course that we are signing the Man City reserve team and Messi, that could maybe put Celtic in a sticky position!!!!

[Sir David Gray]

Last season's "SKOOSH" comes to mind!

Ambition is and always will be inevitable for all teams at the start of a new campaign, but were new to a better league than where we were.

The other teams have what it takes to survive in it, but maybe no ambition to realistically win it.

We have to first test ourselves on a weekly basis against those teams, as we found out in the last 2 seasons a good win against top opposition then bad results in the games after were not uncommon?

If we set the bar to high and we get a string of bad results, we could have the fans on the players backs as last season proved, so better to secure a stay in the league next season and not get to carried away with 2nd and 3rd talk.

Unless of course that we are signing the Man City reserve team and Messi, that could maybe put Celtic in a sticky position!!!!

Hearts got promoted two years ago and then finished 3rd last season. Did they set the bar too high in their ambitions?

We support one of the top five clubs in the country and it's time we started acting like it.

[CMurdoch]

For Lennon to be a Winner we would have to finish 2nd or 3rd?
Realistically we should finish 4th given St Johnstone have a fraction of our budget and Hearts have destroyed their team and will lose most of the remaining good players in the summer.
New Signings and lost players this summer could change my predictions radically for Hibs, Rangers, Aberdeen Hearts. Time will tell.
I had a look at kickback yesterday to see what players the forum users thought their club should sign.
I am happy to report that many of their suggestions are as unrealistic as those made on this forum :greengrin.

[seanoheimhin]

I think if we had been in the Premiership and Lennon took over then what OP said about second being 'winning' would be a fair point.

But considering we're just going up after three years in the SC I think he should be given a bit more leeway than that. I know the club is in a good place at the moment and we should set our sights high, but in the last twenty years we've finished in the top 4 four times (two 3rd places and two 4th places).

In that context, top 4 would be a success. I think we're good enough to finish 3rd, but if we don't it certainly wouldn't be failure.

[Geo_1875]

For Lennon to be a Winner we would have to finish 2nd or 3rd?
Realistically we should finish 4th given St Johnstone have a fraction of our budget and Hearts have destroyed their team and will lose most of the remaining good players in the summer.
New Signings and lost players this summer could change my predictions radically for Hibs, Rangers, Aberdeen Hearts. Time will tell.
I had a look at kickback yesterday to see what players the forum users thought their club should sign.
I am happy to report that many of their suggestions are as unrealistic as those made on this forum :greengrin.

How does that work?

[jacomo]

We've been asked to be patient for far too long, there was always some reason or other why we needed to wait, its time the club delivered, that time is now.


I love arguing with you but I can't argue with this.

Obviously Celtc are in a class of one at the moment but Hibs really should be in contention for a top 4 place and keeping our strong cup performances going.

[CMurdoch]

How does that work?

IMO 4th is where we should finish next season so 2nd or 3rd would exceed that expectation so in my eyes would make Lennon a winner.