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California-Hibs
22-04-2017, 09:15 PM
Watch it and let's discuss, particularly the ending. Big words and delivered with passion and sternness. I love the man!

Mango Man
22-04-2017, 09:28 PM
Oafft, love his closing comment he's some guy, delighted to have him as manager, maybe a bit too hot headed at times, but has passion and drive, and we need someone like that, sounds like he is well up for staying on as well, couple of big signings will make a huge difference and hopefully we hit the ground running.

GreenLake
22-04-2017, 09:28 PM
I liked what he said. Don't know if I agree with all of it but what he said is maybe exactly what needs to be said.

Keyser Sauzee
22-04-2017, 09:28 PM
Is there any links to the full interview??

GreenLake
22-04-2017, 09:29 PM
Is there any links to the full interview??

https://hibstv.hibernianfc.co.uk/tv/video/vod/2034

That is HibsTV link

Keyser Sauzee
22-04-2017, 09:36 PM
https://hibstv.hibernianfc.co.uk/tv/video/vod/2034

That is HibsTV link

Still only the 30 second clip but thanks anyway 👍🏼

1875STEVE
22-04-2017, 09:48 PM
Oafft, love his closing comment he's some guy, delighted to have him as manager, maybe a bit too hot headed at times, but has passion and drive, and we need someone like that, sounds like he is well up for staying on as well, couple of big signings will make a huge difference and hopefully we hit the ground running.


what was his closing comment??

Unseen work
22-04-2017, 09:49 PM
He's a bit deluded if he thinks we're the second best team in the country.

Let's not make statements like that and let our football next season do the talking.

GreenLake
23-04-2017, 06:18 AM
Still only the 30 second clip but thanks anyway 👍🏼

You need to log in to see the full clip.

Dashing Bob S
23-04-2017, 06:47 AM
He's a bit deluded if he thinks we're the second best team in the country.

Let's not make statements like that and let our football next season do the talking.

Love hearing a Hibs manager having the balls and confidence to say something like that and put down a marker for next season. Yes it's a stretch, but on the evidence I've seen, not a massive one.

Baw187
23-04-2017, 07:37 AM
If you don't believe it then it can never be the case.

Too many managers undersell their teams trying to be supposedly realistic when all that does is install a mindset that allows the players to underachieve.

I wish he'd came out and said we can win the league.

bigwheel
23-04-2017, 07:47 AM
I didn't mind the demanding points he was making in the team, it's perhaps though a little worrying that he was still that angry and agitated that long after the game...


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Heisenberg
23-04-2017, 07:59 AM
I didn't mind the demanding points he was making in the team, it's perhaps though a little worrying that he was still that angry and agitated that long after the game...


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He will never change. He'll probably still be raging this morning as well. Must admit while the goals were down to individual mistakes he failed to take any responsibility for what was a tactical catastrophe in the first half hour, we only started playing when Holt came on.

Nicho87
23-04-2017, 08:03 AM
Lennon like all of us is proper peed of cause regardless what formation with we started and ended with. We more than matched and outclassed Aberdeen after their second goal. Stupid kick off and individual mistakes along with a massive slice of luck again for an opposition team made us lose yesterday. I personally love lennons passion and to many managers gone by would come out with the usual bad luck story. Lennon has standards. Like we fans do. Winners mentality is exactly what we need.

wookie70
23-04-2017, 08:51 AM
No doubting his ambition but he is deluded if he thinks we are the second best team in the country. Does anyone think we would have finished 2nd with the squad we have. Could he not have said we have the foundations in place to be the second best team in the country and that is what we will be aiming for next year. If we finish bottom 6 next year does that mean he has taken the 2nd best team in the country and made us worse.

All very well having bravado but we got beat yesterday by the second best team in the country and our manager questioned his teams concentration and attitude. At other times it is our professionalism or our soft centre etc. The way Lennon has described the team this year in post match interviews doesn't sound like we are the second best team in the country.

We are the best team in the Championship. We have a very good record against Premiership teams, mostly under Stubbs. Lennon's record is won one, lost one, drawn one with the win and draw against a Hearts team in free-fall and the defeat being unlucky and against the next best to Celtic.

It will be fascinating seeing what signings we make and even more interesting to see what type of football we play. I get the feeling we are going to replicate this year's "style". It has been terrible viewing for the most part but that is partly because he was trying to fit square pegs into round holes. I like direct football and love watching wingers and a team full of tackles. I think that would be Lennon's style but it simply hasn't worked this year in terms of cohesive performances. We will need 6 or 7 players minimum to be the 2nd best team in the country imo and they will all have to be better than what we have or fit the system better.

Silver Fox
23-04-2017, 08:55 AM
I want to know what players he described as 'hiding'

Borderhibbie76
23-04-2017, 08:58 AM
No doubting his ambition but he is deluded if he thinks we are the second best team in the country. Does anyone think we would have finished 2nd with the squad we have. Could he not have said we have the foundations in place to be the second best team in the country and that is what we will be aiming for next year. If we finish bottom 6 next year does that mean he has taken the 2nd best team in the country and made us worse.

All very well having bravado but we got beat yesterday by the second best team in the country and our manager questioned his teams concentration and attitude. At other times it is our professionalism or our soft centre etc. The way Lennon has described the team this year in post match interviews doesn't sound like we are the second best team in the country.

We are the best team in the Championship. We have a very good record against Premiership teams, mostly under Stubbs. Lennon's record is won one, lost one, drawn one with the win and draw against a Hearts team in free-fall and the defeat being unlucky and against the next best to Celtic.

It will be fascinating seeing what signings we make and even more interesting to see what type of football we play. I get the feeling we are going to replicate this year's "style". It has been terrible viewing for the most part but that is partly because he was trying to fit square pegs into round holes. I like direct football and love watching wingers and a team full of tackles. I think that would be Lennon's style but it simply hasn't worked this year in terms of cohesive performances. We will need 6 or 7 players minimum to be the 2nd best team in the country imo and they will all have to be better than what we have or fit the system better.
This annoys me anti lennon posters on here playing down the cup derby win this season
..not the 1st time I've read this pish about a hearts team in free fall. Before the game at PBS hertz had just gubbed both the Huns and Murderwell...the slump they are now in was as a result.of us pumping them at ER. Lennon s Hibs deserve the same credit Stubbsy s hibs got for knocking premiership Herts out the cup ffs

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Leith Green
23-04-2017, 09:01 AM
I want to know what players he described as 'hiding'

Yesterday , you could argue cummings , mcginn , fyvie?

FitbaFolkKen
23-04-2017, 09:14 AM
Aye he is making a statement for next season, it is also telling any potential signings we are trying to build for success not mediocrity.

Trust in Lenny!

hibee_girl
23-04-2017, 09:16 AM
I want to know what players he described as 'hiding'

All of them in the first 30 minutes

Silver Fox
23-04-2017, 09:18 AM
All of them in the first 30 minutes

I thought he said 4 or 5?

wookie70
23-04-2017, 09:24 AM
This annoys me anti lennon posters on here playing down the cup derby win this season
..not the 1st time I've read this pish about a hearts team in free fall. Before the game at PBS hertz had just gubbed both the Huns and Murderwell...the slump they are now in was as a result.of us pumping them at ER. Lennon s Hibs deserve the same credit Stubbsy s hibs got for knocking premiership Herts out the cup ffs

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Just looked at their results around the time and you are right that free-fall was not the best description. They had however started to falter under Cathro albeit the two games you mentioned had steadied the ship. I am not anti Lennon, I want him to do well and I am pretty much 50/50 on my views towards him as I was when he arrived. He has done the minimum required in the league so pass marks there. Very good SC defence and pass marks in Europe, very poor in the other cup competitions. Very good record against the top teams in our league, very poor record against the poor teams. Some brilliant tactical decision and formations and some bizarre one including playing Fyvie and Bartley together against small teams and yesterday. There is nothing to suggest he will be a brilliant Hibs manager apart from what he says. He looks to be a very decent Hibs manager at the moment and that should mean he will lead us to the top 6 next year.

Clearly lots of our support think he is some sort of messiah but I'll wait for the results to match the rhetoric. If they do I will be delighted to give him credit and if we finish second in the league next year as we should be aiming for given we are the second best team in the country now according to NL then I may well be as convinced as many of our support are. If he finishes top six I will say well done and hope he does better the season after. If we finish bottom six then he will be failing, given our resources, and we might have a decision to make. All of those scenarios are possible at the moment.

Borderhibbie76
23-04-2017, 09:27 AM
Just looked at their results around the time and you are right that free-fall was not the best description. They had however started to falter under Cathro albeit the two games you mentioned had steadied the ship. I am not anti Lennon, I want him to do well and I am pretty much 50/50 on my views towards him as I was when he arrived. He has done the minimum required in the league so pass marks there. Very good SC defence and pass marks in Europe, very poor in the other cup competitions. Very good record against the top teams in our league, very poor record against the poor teams. Some brilliant tactical decision and formations and some bizarre one including playing Fyvie and Bartley together against small teams and yesterday. There is nothing to suggest he will be a brilliant Hibs manager apart from what he says. He looks to be a very decent Hibs manager at the moment and that should mean he will lead us to the top 6 next year.

Clearly lots of our support think he is some sort of messiah but I'll wait for the results to match the rhetoric. If they do I will be delighted to give him credit and if we finish second in the league next year as we should be aiming for given we are the second best team in the country now according to NL then I may well be as convinced as many of our support are. If he finishes top six I will say well done and hope he does better the season after. If we finish bottom six then he will be failing, given our resources, and we might have a decision to make. All of those scenarios are possible at the moment.
I'm not thinking he is any sort of messiah...neither was Stubbsy. Stubbs will always be a legend for the cup win but he failed twice to get us promoted...we lost to a poor Rangers team in play offs and Houston's Falkirk in second season. Lennon has done his job so far...winning the championship was the ONLY priority this season and we achieved it comfortably enough in the end. Let's see what next season brings...

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Andy74
23-04-2017, 10:30 AM
His interview is spot on. Great reminder to the players that the club is going to be all about winning and it's not acceptable to start making errors or not turning up in big games.

Eyrie
23-04-2017, 11:52 AM
His interview is spot on. Great reminder to the players that the club is going to be all about winning and it's not acceptable to start making errors or not turning up in big games.

I assume that applies to tactics as well as performances.

It's difficult to be taken seriously when you're only willing to highlight others' failings and not your own.

SeanWilson
23-04-2017, 01:32 PM
I assume that applies to tactics as well as performances.

It's difficult to be taken seriously when you're only willing to highlight others' failings and not your own.

Personally think making a substitution 30 mins in to a match and changing the shape completely is not only admitting you're wrong but actively doing something about it. A lot of managers are far to stubborn to even do that, let alone talk about it.

How anyone can be angry or disgusted with him claiming we are the 2nd best team in the country is beyond me. Whether we are or aren't, it's a Breath of fresh air to finally think of hibs as being a 'big club' with 'big club' mentality.

He's the right man for the job. 👍

Stevie Reid
23-04-2017, 01:38 PM
I assume that applies to tactics as well as performances.

It's difficult to be taken seriously when you're only willing to highlight others' failings and not your own.

You don't think Neil Lennon should be taken seriously?

Stevie Reid
23-04-2017, 01:39 PM
Personally think making a substitution 30 mins in to a match and changing the shape completely is not only admitting you're wrong but actively doing something about it. A lot of managers are far to stubborn to even do that, let alone talk about it.

How anyone can be angry or disgusted with him claiming we are the 2nd best team in the country is beyond me. Whether we are or aren't, it's a Breath of fresh air to finally think of hibs as being a 'big club' with 'big club' mentality.

He's the right man for the job. 👍

Well said. Amazing what some people will find fault with.

wookie70
23-04-2017, 01:41 PM
Personally think making a substitution 30 mins in to a match and changing the shape completely is not only admitting you're wrong but actively doing something about it. A lot of managers are far to stubborn to even do that, let alone talk about it.

How anyone can be angry or disgusted with him claiming we are the 2nd best team in the country is beyond me. Whether we are or aren't, it's a Breath of fresh air to finally think of hibs as being a 'big club' with 'big club' mentality.

He's the right man for the job. 👍

Not sure if you are old enough to remember a certain Scotland manager who talked up an excellent Scotland team to the point they believed the hype and under performed spectacularly on the biggest stage. Google Ally MacLeod Argentina if you are not old enough. My view is that talk is cheap, I think we are a good bit away from second best team in the country but there is no reason we couldn't build to that next season. He could have been confident in the interview without being cocky and in your face.

SeanWilson
23-04-2017, 01:51 PM
Not sure if you are old enough to remember a certain Scotland manager who talked up an excellent Scotland team to the point they believed the hype and under performed spectacularly on the biggest stage. Google Ally MacLeod Argentina if you are not old enough. My view is that talk is cheap, I think we are a good bit away from second best team in the country but there is no reason we couldn't build to that next season. He could have been confident in the interview without being cocky and in your face.

I'm in my 30's buddy.

I completely agree that talk is cheap. However, you only have to look at the zombies to see that even a rank rotten team can win more often than not just because they truly believe they're still a big club.

**** like 'hibs class' and other pish that people go on about does my box in. The other thread on Boyle not going down in the box cause that's just not what we do etc etc is just utter, utter pish. It's about time hibs stood up for themselves and acted like a team that wants to do anything and everything to WIN.

ekhibee
23-04-2017, 02:19 PM
No doubting his ambition but he is deluded if he thinks we are the second best team in the country. Does anyone think we would have finished 2nd with the squad we have. Could he not have said we have the foundations in place to be the second best team in the country and that is what we will be aiming for next year. If we finish bottom 6 next year does that mean he has taken the 2nd best team in the country and made us worse.

All very well having bravado but we got beat yesterday by the second best team in the country and our manager questioned his teams concentration and attitude. At other times it is our professionalism or our soft centre etc. The way Lennon has described the team this year in post match interviews doesn't sound like we are the second best team in the country.

We are the best team in the Championship. We have a very good record against Premiership teams, mostly under Stubbs. Lennon's record is won one, lost one, drawn one with the win and draw against a Hearts team in free-fall and the defeat being unlucky and against the next best to Celtic.

It will be fascinating seeing what signings we make and even more interesting to see what type of football we play. I get the feeling we are going to replicate this year's "style". It has been terrible viewing for the most part but that is partly because he was trying to fit square pegs into round holes. I like direct football and love watching wingers and a team full of tackles. I think that would be Lennon's style but it simply hasn't worked this year in terms of cohesive performances. We will need 6 or 7 players minimum to be the 2nd best team in the country imo and they will all have to be better than what we have or fit the system better.
I can see the points you're trying to make, but we've not really had out and out wingers for a wee while now, unless you count Humphrey I suppose. Stubbs continually used wing backs, and I think Stevenson was shown up in that respect earlier on in the season against Tavernier, whereas when Stubbs moved Stokes on to the left wing in the cup final he had Tavernier in his pocket. I do agree that we need to bring in 6 or 7 players, but in all honesty the premiership with the exception of Celtic is mediocre, and our record against all of them is as good as any other team. We should have beaten Aberdeen yesterday and we should have beaten Ross County in the league cup final last season. Aberdeen fielded their strongest team yesterday and for large parts of the game they looked very ordinary indeed, and don't forget last season when we beat them comfortably. So I don't really have a problem with the suggestion that we would be right up there, because we've beaten Aberdeen, Hearts (twice) and St Johnstone in the last season or so.

Kato
23-04-2017, 02:53 PM
Not sure if you are old enough to remember a certain Scotland manager who talked up an excellent Scotland team to the point they believed the hype and under performed spectacularly on the biggest stage. Google Ally MacLeod Argentina if you are not old enough. My view is that talk is cheap, I think we are a good bit away from second best team in the country but there is no reason we couldn't build to that next season. He could have been confident in the interview without being cocky and in your face.

The Scottish teams failure had nothing to do with the hype, plenty other factors (different bonus system for anglos, poor treatment by SFA), most players knew Ally lived in a world of his own.

Ray_
23-04-2017, 03:41 PM
Not sure if you are old enough to remember a certain Scotland manager who talked up an excellent Scotland team to the point they believed the hype and under performed spectacularly on the biggest stage. Google Ally MacLeod Argentina if you are not old enough. My view is that talk is cheap, I think we are a good bit away from second best team in the country but there is no reason we couldn't build to that next season. He could have been confident in the interview without being cocky and in your face.

You want to go down that road? I don't think what Lennon done would have been too dissimilar to what Busby, Revie, Shankly, Clough, Turnbull, Stein, Paisley, Ferguson & Mourinho would have done if they had got, what Lennon got, from their team, during the first 30 minutes, of the national cup semi, including the horrendous errors that caused the first two goals. Listen to the TT's, the ones who have expressed an opinion, the difference between them and Celtic, was they were winners, borne from their manager.

As for Ally MacLeod, yes he had the nation believing, he also had Scotland playing terrific football most of the time & if it wasn't for the last minute withdrawal of McGrain & McQueen, who knows what we could have achieved. Those were two commanding defenders, who at the time, were the best in the UK, in their position and a big loss. It was a shame the Scotland squad of 74 didn't have the belief of 78, if they had, I don't think we would still have been waiting to get through the first group section in the finals.

I rate the abuse MacLead got from the media, after that tournament, was on par to what Revie got, when he left the English job. Revie was about to get sacked, it was just a matter of time & the English media were baying for it, and when he jumped, he was slaughtered and denounced a traitor!!! I remember thinking what a bunch of Muppet's, the English media were.

wookie70
23-04-2017, 04:34 PM
You want to go down that road? I don't think what Lennon done would have been too dissimilar to what Busby, Revie, Shankly, Clough, Turnbull, Stein, Paisley, Ferguson & Mourinho would have done if they had got, what Lennon got, from their team, during the first 30 minutes, of the national cup semi, including the horrendous errors that caused the first two goals. Listen to the TT's, the ones who have expressed an opinion, the difference between them and Celtic, was they were winners, borne from their manager.

As for Ally MacLeod, yes he had the nation believing, he also had Scotland playing terrific football most of the time & if it wasn't for the last minute withdrawal of McGrain & McQueen, who knows what we could have achieved. Those were two commanding defenders, who at the time, were the best in the UK, in their position and a big loss. It was a shame the Scotland squad of 74 didn't have the belief of 78, if they had, I don't think we would still have been waiting to get through the first group section in the finals.

I rate the abuse MacLead got from the media, after that tournament, was on par to what Revie got, when he left the English job. Revie was about to get sacked, it was just a matter of time & the English media were baying for it, and when he jumped, he was slaughtered and denounced a traitor!!! I remember thinking what a bunch of Muppet's, the English media were.

McGrain and McQueen may have missed out but we got put out because of results against two smaller nations in Peru and Iran and managed to beat one of the favourites Holland. Complacency may well have been a major factor along with the other things mentioned. All I am saying is that everyone lapped up what MacLeod was saying and he took a team that had a fair chance of a semi final spot and ended up not getting through the group stages. I'm not saying it is the same but it is a gamble to talk up a team as much as Lennon did yesterday and one that can have negative as well as positive results.

I must admit most of the managers you mention, from my memory, did their criticising of players behind closed doors and are from a different era. Mourinho may be the exception as he sometimes deflects criticism of himself and his club with hiding behind poor player performances but for the most part he slams the opposition, refs, the FA etc. It is still quite rare with him to call out players compared to Lennon.

Google "Ferguson slams" and you will get a long list of Ferguson slams refs, FA, typical Germans, opposition teams and a good few other things. When you hear about him slamming Utd players it is typically when he is a pundit or after they have finished playing for him.

I am not saying Lennon shouldn't be critical of the team it is the regularity and level of it and the fact it is done in the media.( Disgraceful, pathetic, rubbish, I expect better, they need to look at themselves, boy band, schoolboy stuff, bad habits all from yesterday). Yesterday it also lacked the balance of his performance and the 60 minutes Hibs players played very well and showed some real character. Lennon acknowledged the character in general but not that it was shown yesterday.

I am also not saying he shouldn't say we are a good team and give the players some belief but he seems to only talk about the extremes. Not a good team but the second best in Scotland.

There is no doubt he is a feisty individual who wears his heart of his sleeve. I quite like that in people maybe a bit less in people who are my manager. He can be as feisty as he wants and can tear strips of the players all he wants publicly and privately. That is his decision but he should be judged on whether it is doing good. Given he has tore into the players a good few times and we continue to only play for 60 minutes or not play against the smaller teams then I would question the value of the outbursts to team performance and ponder why he is doing it.

Pete
23-04-2017, 04:44 PM
There was absolutely nothing wrong with our initial tactics and formation yesterday. The problem is that it becomes difficult when you lose a goal after 20 seconds and it becomes unworkable if you lose another after 20 minutes.

That way of playing relies on keeping it tight for the first while but it went totally out the window...which was nothing to do with tactics.

Such is the internet, I bet the same people would be saying Lennon had got it wrong by not selecting a more defensive formation had we started with the team that finished the game and we lost two early goals.

wookie70
23-04-2017, 04:51 PM
There was absolutely nothing wrong with our initial tactics and formation yesterday. The problem is that it becomes difficult when you lose a goal after 20 seconds and it becomes unworkable if you lose another after 20 minutes.

That way of playing relies on keeping it tight for the first while but it went totally out the window...which was nothing to do with tactics.

Such is the internet, I bet the same people would be saying Lennon had got it wrong by not selecting a more defensive formation had we started with the team that finished the game and we lost two early goals.

How do you know there was nothing wrong with our formation or tactics. Everything suggests there was plenty wrong with it. Yes the goals were defining moments but so was the formation change.

hibeedonald
23-04-2017, 05:09 PM
I judge managers on what I see on the park and nothing else. The effort and passion the players put in to games at the moment is fantastic and although tactics play an important part I think a team as motivated as ours is the most important aspect of all. Just look at Hearts - no passion, fight and their fans hate them for it.

Pete
23-04-2017, 05:11 PM
How do you know there was nothing wrong with our formation or tactics. Everything suggests there was plenty wrong with it. Yes the goals were defining moments but so was the formation change.

There's nothing wrong with setting up like that as there's more than one way to skin a car. Especially one that's the second best in the country.

It was the individual errors leading to the goals that rendered the formation useless, not the other way around.

He did well to change things in a bold way and it's not his fault that the players lost two goals...something that was definitely not in the initial plan.

emerald green
23-04-2017, 05:11 PM
**** like 'hibs class' and other pish that people go on about does my box in. The other thread on Boyle not going down in the box cause that's just not what we do etc etc is just utter, utter pish. It's about time hibs stood up for themselves and acted like a team that wants to do anything and everything to WIN.

The bit in bold. Do you mean diving/cheating?

If I'm correct, I presume you will be applauding lets say for example Jamie Walker (HOMFC) next season when he throws himself to the ground, whenever he is in and around the Hibs penalty box, trying to con referees into awarding a penalty kick which might win the game for Hearts and cheat Hibs out of valuable points?

oldbutdim
23-04-2017, 05:16 PM
[/B]
The bit in bold. Do you mean diving/cheating?

If I'm correct, I presume you will be applauding lets say for example Jamie Walker (HOMFC) next season when he throws himself to the ground, whenever he is in and around the Hibs penalty box, trying to con referees into awarding a penalty kick which might win the game for Hearts and cheat Hibs out of valuable points?

Correct.
Cheating should be hounded from the game not respected as a 'skill'.
I'm amazed that anyone would want Hibs to encourage cheating and diving. It's ruining the game.

wookie70
23-04-2017, 05:24 PM
There's nothing wrong with setting up like that as there's more than one way to skin a car. Especially one that's the second best in the country.

It was the individual errors leading to the goals that rendered the formation useless, not the other way around.

He did well to change things in a bold way and it's not his fault that the players lost two goals...something that was definitely not in the initial plan.

Nothing wrong with setting up that way but it didn't work regardless of the goals. Unless Lennon's intentions were than Aberdeen would overrun us and have the ball for the first 30 minutes. Well done to Lennon for changing it when it was clearly not working although he could have done that before the second goal.

emerald green
23-04-2017, 05:26 PM
Correct.
Cheating should be hounded from the game not respected as a 'skill'.
I'm amazed that anyone would want Hibs to encourage cheating and diving. It's ruining the game.

:agree: :aok:

wfortune
23-04-2017, 05:29 PM
Nothing wrong with setting up that way but it didn't work regardless of the goals. Unless Lennon's intentions were than Aberdeen would overrun us and have the ball for the first 30 minutes. Well done to Lennon for changing it when it was clearly not working although he could have done that before the second goal.
I thought he made 2 mistakes with the team, Bartley and Fyvie can't play in the same midfield and Jason is not a lone striker

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Pete
23-04-2017, 05:33 PM
Nothing wrong with setting up that way but it didn't work regardless of the goals. Unless Lennon's intentions were than Aberdeen would overrun us and have the ball for the first 30 minutes. Well done to Lennon for changing it when it was clearly not working although he could have done that before the second goal.

There's a difference between being overran and allowing the other team to have the ball...something that can be quite deliberate if you're playing a counter attacking game (which is what I thought the initial plan was).

It was obvious that the first goal upset things as the players had "keep it tight" drummed into them.

Would playing like that have worked if we had managed to keep it tight? I guess we'll never know but it's wrong to say that was a wrong way to set up based on what happened so early in the match.

Pete
23-04-2017, 05:35 PM
I thought he made 2 mistakes with the team, Bartley and Fyvie can't play in the same midfield and Jason is not a lone striker

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I think it depends on the opposition. Against teams like Dumbarton and Raith I'd agree but maybe quality teams deserve a bit more respect and more of a safety first approach.

SeanWilson
23-04-2017, 05:56 PM
[/B]
The bit in bold. Do you mean diving/cheating?

If I'm correct, I presume you will be applauding lets say for example Jamie Walker (HOMFC) next season when he throws himself to the ground, whenever he is in and around the Hibs penalty box, trying to con referees into awarding a penalty kick which might win the game for Hearts and cheat Hibs out of valuable points?
You presume wrong.

However, if say Boyle goes down in similar fashion in the 92nd minute of a 0-0 derby at Tynecastle next year and we go on to score the winner... I'll not be wagging my finger it him, put it that way....

emerald green
23-04-2017, 06:06 PM
You presume wrong.

However, if say Boyle goes down in similar fashion in the 92nd minute of a 0-0 derby at Tynecastle next year and we go on to score the winner... I'll not be wagging my finger it him, put it that way....

So basically you are saying you do condone cheating, as long as it's to Hibs advantage. Is that right?

Danderhall Hibs
23-04-2017, 06:08 PM
So basically you are saying you do condone cheating, as long as it's to Hibs advantage. Is that right?

if you can't beat them join them.

SeanWilson
23-04-2017, 06:10 PM
So basically you are saying you do condone cheating, as long as it's to Hibs advantage. Is that right?

I would never actively encourage folk to cheat but I wouldn't be knocking back the advantage if it happens to 'fall' out way.

emerald green
23-04-2017, 06:19 PM
if you can't beat them join them.

That seems a very defeatist argument.

My argument is that cheating, particularly diving for game changing/winning penalties, needs to be stamped out as far as it's possible. That applies to every team. That means better refereeing standards, the introduction of video technology, and the imposition of much more severe sanctions for this type of cheating.

A few players getting lets say 4-6 game match bans, and clubs fined, would soon see a drop off in diving IMHO. I think players, and coaches who never "see it" only when it's their own player(s) involved, would start to think twice about theatrical dives in and around the penalty box.

O'Rourke3
23-04-2017, 06:29 PM
That seems a very defeatist argument.

My argument is that cheating, particularly diving for game changing/winning penalties, needs to be stamped out as far as it's possible. That applies to every team. That means better refereeing standards, the introduction of video technology, and the imposition of much more severe sanctions for this type of cheating.

A few players getting lets say 4-6 game match bans, and clubs fined, would soon see a drop off in diving IMHO. I think players, and coaches who never "see it" only when it's their own player(s) involved, would start to think twice about theatrical dives in and around the penalty box.

I hate divers. The leap Squirrel had to make to get past the tackle was one, if he had gone down, I would not have blamed him for. The fact the defender went for that version of obstruction was the reason he didn't get on the end of the pass. There's a huge difference there.

emerald green
23-04-2017, 06:40 PM
I hate divers. The leap Squirrel had to make to get past the tackle was one, if he had gone down, I would not have blamed him for. The fact the defender went for that version of obstruction was the reason he didn't get on the end of the pass. There's a huge difference there.

OK we both hate divers, but I'm not sure if you're saying you agree or not with my argument. :confused:

Eyrie
23-04-2017, 07:08 PM
Personally think making a substitution 30 mins in to a match and changing the shape completely is not only admitting you're wrong but actively doing something about it. A lot of managers are far to stubborn to even do that, let alone talk about it.
I'll readily give Lennon credit for fixing the problem when he did rather than waiting until half time, but what annoyed me was his complete refusal to say that his tactics were a factor in our dreadful opening 30 minutes.


You don't think Neil Lennon should be taken seriously?
If there was a problem at work which resulted in my boss giving me an earful for my role in it whilst ignoring his own role, I'd let it go in one ear and out the other because I'd be annoyed at him trying to pass the buck. If you want people to take responsibility, then you have to be willing to do so yourself.

O'Rourke3
23-04-2017, 07:08 PM
I hate divers. The leap Squirrel had to make to get past the tackle was one, if he had gone down, I would not have blamed him for. The fact the defender went for that version of obstruction was the reason he didn't get on the end of the pass. There's a huge difference there.


OK we both hate divers, but I'm not sure if you're saying you agree or not with my argument. :confused:

I think had he gone over no-one would have accused him of diving. Staying on his feet was a feat of gymnastics and unnecessary.

Stevie Reid
23-04-2017, 07:23 PM
I'll readily give Lennon credit for fixing the problem when he did rather than waiting until half time, but what annoyed me was his complete refusal to say that his tactics were a factor in our dreadful opening 30 minutes.


If there was a problem at work which resulted in my boss giving me an earful for my role in it whilst ignoring his own role, I'd let it go in one ear and out the other because I'd be annoyed at him trying to pass the buck. If you want people to take responsibility, then you have to be willing to do so yourself.

I am firmly in the camp that we'll never really know how effective the tactics would have been, as the litany of mistakes in the 12 seconds from the centre effectively rendered them redundant.

Aberdeen didn't create anything in between then and the second goal, and only really looked threatening for a few minutes after they went two up - so although we were anonymous as an attacking force ourselves, Aberdeen were not cutting through us or getting in behind us, despite all their possession.

I suspect that the original plan was to keep it tight for the first 60-70 mins and then bring Holt on and go for it. We'll never know if it would have worked if it weren't for the disastrous start, but given the quality of opposition we were up against, I don't blame Lennon for picking the team that he did.

Eyrie
23-04-2017, 07:37 PM
I am firmly in the camp that we'll never really know how effective the tactics would have been, as the litany of mistakes in the 12 seconds from the centre effectively rendered them redundant.

Aberdeen didn't create anything in between then and the second goal, and only really looked threatening for a few minutes after they went two up - so although we were anonymous as an attacking force ourselves, Aberdeen were not cutting through us or getting in behind us, despite all their possession.

I suspect that the original plan was to keep it tight for the first 60-70 mins and then bring Holt on and go for it. We'll never know if it would have worked if it weren't for the disastrous start, but given the quality of opposition we were up against, I don't blame Lennon for picking the team that he did.

I can see where you're coming from with that argument - it's the same tactics that teams have used against us for the last three seasons and half the league will do the same to us next year, with the difference being that we haven't scored early in those games whilst Aberdeen did yesterday.

That meant they could afford to keep possession and wait for their pressure to create another chance. We had a game plan that allowed them to do that and which surrendered possession because our midfield had no time to pass the ball, so were reduced to humping it up the park for their defenders to collect.

We needed to do something to change that pattern, and Lennon did just that by changing formation and bringing on Holt which was an acknowledgement that his initial tactics were wrong.

Stevie Reid
23-04-2017, 07:43 PM
I can see where you're coming from with that argument - it's the same tactics that teams have used against us for the last three seasons and half the league will do the same to us next year, with the difference being that we haven't scored early in those games whilst Aberdeen did yesterday.

That meant they could afford to keep possession and wait for their pressure to create another chance. We had a game plan that allowed them to do that and which surrendered possession because our midfield had no time to pass the ball, so were reduced to humping it up the park for their defenders to collect.

We needed to do something to change that pattern, and Lennon did just that by changing formation and bringing on Holt which was an acknowledgement that his initial tactics were wrong.

I can't agree that's an admission that he got it wrong because of what I'd written in my previous post, but I agree with the rest of your post - it was an admission that it needed changed, and I thought it was fairly brave to do it before half time.

We needed Jason to run the channels and be an out ball when he was up front on his own - ironically he did that more once Holt was on.

BroxburnHibee
23-04-2017, 09:15 PM
After watching Aberdeen and Sevco this weekend I would say 2nd place is very much up for grabs.

GreenOnions
23-04-2017, 10:32 PM
I thought he made 2 mistakes with the team, Bartley and Fyvie can't play in the same midfield and Jason is not a lone striker
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The way I saw it was not that Bartley and Fyvie playing together was the problem but more that we needed two up front. We were not able to hold onto the ball I think because Cummings was surrounded by defenders.

The starting formation proved to be a problem for us but it didn't cause us to loose two goals. That was just mistakes.

However, NL was strong enough to identify his strategy wasn't working and changed it. That is a positive IMHO and I don't think we would have got back into the game without the change or the mental strength of our players.

I am delighted NL is our manager and still believe it was a coup for the board getting him.

euro Hibby
23-04-2017, 10:54 PM
I do not think that it was his game plan that did not work its more like it had no chance to work after losing 2 terrible goes early because of defensive blunders. I think he wanted to hold the game tight for 60 minutes and win it second half. Just luck was with them Saturday and that happens. I am pretty sure he knows his football, so look forward to seeing who comes and who goes. Down beat for a couple of days but good times around the corner.