'Gallant losers are losers'...Was Lennon right to blast the players?

[G B Young]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39680019

Some hard-hitting stuff in his interview.

[Keith_M]

"The first 30 minutes was pathetic and totally unacceptable"


Hard to disagree, and it's the kind of attitude you need to be a winner.

[Northernhibee]

No. We showed great spirit to fight back and were unlucky to concede the third. The start was unacceptable but the performance after that overshadowed that.

[calumhibee1]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.

[snooky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39680019

Some hard-hitting stuff in his interview.

Dalglish once said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"
I know what he's getting at, but he's wrong. Jack Nicklaus was a good loser but he NEVER was a 'loser'

[Scouse Hibee]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.

In a nutshell.

[houstonhibbee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39680019

Some hard-hitting stuff in his interview.
100%. He wants winners, not losers.

[lucky]

Yes the players crap for 30 minutes but so was the way the team was set up. We win as a team and lose as a team.

[neil7908]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.

Correct, he needs to learn some lessons from today. We had nothing to fear from Aberdeen and he set us up far too narrow and defensively.

[ancient hibee]

Surely the flow of the game was determined by having control of the ball twice at the kick off and still losing a goal.From then on our much praised midfield took half an hour to cope with being pressed and having no time on the ball.Something they'll have to get used to next season.

[Wull]

100% he has the attitude we have needed for far too long

[The Green Goblin]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.

My thoughts too. Mistakes cost us, but this didn´t help.

[JDT]

If he wants winners then why has he offered every player a new contract? He's right the first 30 were terrible

[Marco G]

Lennon was right. Tactics had nothing to do with the 2 poor goals we lost. Tactics had nothing to do with us looking jittery and not showing for the pass. He is annoyed cause he knows we could and maybe should have won this game.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Never agree about gallant losers but you are allowed to take positives. After the second I thought that were in for a real skelping but we didn't fold.

[houstonhibbee]

If he wants winners then why has he offered every player a new contract? He's right the first 30 were terrible
Maybe some of them are not great terms, but after some performances he may be unwilling to improve some offers

[Kato]

Dalglish once said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"
I know what he's getting at, but he's wrong. Jack Nicklaus was a good loser but he NEVER was a 'loser'

Big difference from team and individual sports.

[Kato]

If he wants winners then why has he offered every player a new contract? He's right the first 30 were terrible

Players can learn good habits.

[familyman]

Maybe some of them are not great terms, but after some performances he may be unwilling to improve some offers
It was a huge disappointment I still wonder why Jason is so hot and cold, he just did not turn up ,Aberdeen were there to be taken but we gifted them the goals and there is no excuse for that.It was obvious the free kick was going to be an in swinger so why on earth did we not cope with that basic situation.....The first goal was a joke..but not a funny one .
Hard to fault the effort but yes changes needed in squad for sure, a killer touch and more Dylan style players driving forward.I hope Dylan is not out yet again from this injury.
:flag:We have achieved our main aim so well done.

[Sir David Gray]

Of course he's right but he is also culpable for picking a team that clearly wasn't set up correctly.

The first 30 minutes was the poorest I've seen from us for quite some time and that's ultimately what's cost us today. The last hour of that match, showed that we can more than match the likes of Aberdeen but you can't expect to get away with conceding two goals like that.

We deserved extra time there's no doubt about that but the start of the game was unacceptable.

[JK Rolling]

Dalglish once said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"
I know what he's getting at, but he's wrong. Jack Nicklaus was a good loser but he NEVER was a 'loser'


Kenny Dalglish / Vince Lombardi - Potato / Tomato.

:top marks

[OsloHibs]

It's a yes from me. But he too takes share of the blame.

[calumhibee1]

Lennon was right. Tactics had nothing to do with the 2 poor goals we lost. Tactics had nothing to do with us looking jittery and not showing for the pass. He is annoyed cause he knows we could and maybe should have won this game.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

His tactics were the reason for us looking jittery. With the way we were set up the first half hour the players knew that Cummings wasn't going to hold the ball up against their defence, so that option was pretty much off. After that we're looking to knock the ball about in midfield, which if you lose it there, is a dangerous game, as the first goal showed. The best we could have hoped for the first half hour with the way we were sit up was to keep the ball off them, never in a million years were we going to score with Cummings up top on his own.

[wookie70]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.

Agree with this. Yes the players made errors but he has to shoulder some of the blame or support those that made the errors.

[Ozyhibby]

No. We showed great spirit to fight back and were unlucky to concede the third. The start was unacceptable but the performance after that overshadowed that.

If it had overshadowed it we would have won. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

I would rather be a gallant loser than a cowardly loser. When Lennon made his comments he was already a loser, he had the choice of what type of loser to be. Of course I appreciate, that to most Hibs fans, Lennon is a winner even when his team draws or loses and more so when they win.

[Ilovehibs]

I have no problem with Lennon stating cold hard facts but he should be man enough to acknowledge his own responsibility for team set up and the part that played in the first half hour.

Fine to call out mistakes if that includes your own.

[givescotlandfreedom]

He's absolutely right in his attitude but didn't help things by setting us up all wrong in the first place.

[houstonhibbee]

I would rather be a gallant loser than a cowardly loser. When Lennon made his comments he was already a loser, he had the choice of what type of loser to be. Of course I appreciate, that to most Hibs fans, Lennon is a winner even when his team draws or loses and more so when they win.
I'd say its more a case of trying to instill a winning mentality into the mindset that has been a soft touch in the past and obviously still shows up from time to time.
He wants his players to concentrate and fight for the full game not just part of it - and in every game not just the big games.
That's the mentality at celtic and nothing wrong with that at all.

[Cheshire Hibby]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.

quite right imo.

[keep the faith]

Wrong. His starting line up was negative and not set up to win the game. Team showed tremendous character and once the formation changes were made we were by far the better team.
Lennon should back his players.

[BegbieHSC]

It probably is right of Lennon tbh. They were absolutely awful goals to concede, and despite the good performance.
Winners don't concede those kind of goals, and if Lennon wants to turn our players into winners for the prem, then they need a good bollocking.

[half.time.draw.]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.

Yep it was his fault from the kickoff.
Stop slavering.
The players to a man **** there pants until the substitution.

[SRHibs]

He's right. Any gameplan went out the window when individual errors cost us a goal within the first 15 seconds.

[makaveli1875]

when you lose a goal after 12 seconds its hard to blame the tactics or set up , it was a shocker and theres no one else to blame but the players . lennon is bang on

[Bishop Hibee]

Two crazy goals to give away which weren't down to the tactics but Lennon should have started with Holt up front. Their centre halves are their weaknesses.

['mon the beers]

Started the wrong formation, corrected it by taking off Fyvie and we were better after that.

Got to admit we were so negative at kick off but once Holt came on we were so much better.

[eastcoasthibby]

That 30 minutes in a cup semi final just isn't on and BL has seen a fair bit of that attitude in quite a lot of games and at times in games ..so I think he is absolutely right to have a go at a time of the season when it has no adverse impact ..and perhaps let's a few know it's just not going to be accepted. Would live to know who he has in mind with the boy band comment ...I know who I think switches off and doesn't give enough committment for the majority of a game ...and also that a few just aren't quite good enough ...I think he is right there is a distinct casualness, lethargy, a bit of arrogance, lack of effort or desire .. and I suppose the attitude to work hard all the time a nd be professional, instead of thinking they have made it and just need to turn up.. ..let them get there heads round his expectations cos next season it's going to be tougher and winners needed all over the team ..no room for any hangovers on ..

[Dashing Bob S]

Correct to blast players, but should also be big enough to admit that his tactics were wrong. However, if players concentrate and defend from the off, those tactics are seen in a different light.

It's an intractable one.

But I'm glad he's not settling for second best. We need that hunger as a club. We've been the spooky Mr Nice Guys of Scottish football for too long. I like the new bad ******* Hibs, and it's all down to NL.

[Eyrie]

Lennon was right because it was two individual errors that cost us the opening goals - McGregor being well short with the pass to Ambrose and McGeouch running away from his duty in the wall for their second.

Lennon was wrong because he did get his tactics wrong, which he effectively admitted by sending Holt on for Fyvie. Aberdeen were in our faces from kick off which unsettled our players and meant we couldn't play the ball on the ground or into space for Cummings, so we were unable to keep any possession or do anything going forward and that set the pattern of play which saw Aberdeen dominate the midfield and create the opportunity for Christie's free kick. Only by having a target man in Holt were we able to solve the problem.

I'm very disappointed that Lennon wasn't man enough to admit that in the interview.

He also needs to give the players more credit for getting us back level once he did get the formation and tactics right.

[inglisavhibs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39680019

Some hard-hitting stuff in his interview.
Just gutted that we lost. He obviously expected us to win and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Shrekko]

Neil Lennon is brilliant at the psychological aspect of management. Why should he be satisfied? I'm proud of the team but nothing wrong with not wanting more.

All the armchair experts slating his tactics might want to consider that the game is totally different when you concede 2 horrendous goals that were NOTHING to do with tactics.

A good manager adapts though and that's what he did- and guess what? He changed the game with a brave substitution.

Fantasy management is easy with hindsight. I didn't notice any campaign on Hibs.net this week demanding that Holt started at Hampden!!

[Mibbes Aye]

It's easy to just see things from a Hibs lens and ignore that they're a very decent side with their own game plan. Sometimes we will just lose to that.

As has been mentioned on other threads the support was phenomenal today. We were amazing at the end of the game.

[houstonhibbee]

It's easy to just see things from a Hibs lens and ignore that they're a very decent side with their own game plan. Sometimes we will just lose to that.

As has been mentioned on other threads the support was phenomenal today. We were amazing at the end of the game.
Aberdeens tactic to close us down right from the start and stifle our midfield took us by surprise.

[Steve20]

He was right to have a go about the first half an hour. But there were positives to take today.

Get a couple of additions in our team and we are heading straight for a possible top four finish next year.

[heretoday]

Lennon's right.

I hope he puts a team together next season that won't be so prone to these lapses.

[wookie70]

Neil Lennon is brilliant at the psychological aspect of management. Why should he be satisfied? I'm proud of the team but nothing wrong with not wanting more.

All the armchair experts slating his tactics might want to consider that the game is totally different when you concede 2 horrendous goals that were NOTHING to do with tactics.

A good manager adapts though and that's what he did- and guess what? He changed the game with a brave substitution.

Fantasy management is easy with hindsight. I didn't notice any campaign on Hibs.net this week demanding that Holt started at Hampden!!

You might have noticed before the game a number of posts that were surprised that Fyvie and Bartley both started and that either Boyle was playing up top or we were going with Jason on his own. Not everything you read is hindsight some of it is foresight. Stop concentrating on the goals in terms of his tactics. We were second best all over the park in the first 30 minutes and the goals never changed the tactics until Holt came on.

It was a tactical change that changed our fortunes but the fact the formation wasn't working was Lennon's fault. After 10 minutes it was plain to see the players had no idea what they were meant to be doing and had no out ball so we kept giving the ball away. Brave would have been to make the sub after 15 minutes and we might not have lost the second. I will give him credit for the substitution though as he didn't need to bring Holt on but either Fyvie or Bartley had to come off and with Fraser's booking there was only one choice.

[Golden Bear]

Of course he's right but he is also culpable for picking a team that clearly wasn't set up correctly.

The first 30 minutes was the poorest I've seen from us for quite some time and that's ultimately what's cost us today. The last hour of that match, showed that we can more than match the likes of Aberdeen but you can't expect to get away with conceding two goals like that.

We deserved extra time there's no doubt about that but the start of the game was unacceptable.

:agree:

Well said Sir. There's also an expression which says that you shouldn't wash your dirty linen in public and it's something Mr Lennon should consider.

PS And maybe HIS own decision to play Fyvie & Bartley in the same team.

[emerald green]

Neil Lennon lets his emotions get the better of him sometimes. He has a winner's mentality and genuinely wants his team to be winners too, not losers.

What he said may seem harsh, but that's just the way he is it seems to me.

[Hi Heid Yin]

How any one can suggest that Lennon was wrong to slate his players for the first 30 minutes is ridiculous.
That opening minute by Hibs was the worst and most comical I think I have ever witnessed by any hibs team I have ever seen...and I'm nearly 60!
To then see another comical and amateurish goal conceded by our players through splitting a defensive wall and thus allowing the ball to continue on its merry way and sneak in at the near post is infuriating. Little wonder our manager is frustrated.

Lennon called it right.
He knows, as most of us do, that there remains a soft centre to Hibs, in which teams don't have to actually work hard for their goals, as our lot can (and still do) collectively and individually switch off at crucial moments inexplicably...nothing to do with tactics or set-ups.

[brisbanehibs]

I was driving back and was quite surprised to hear his interview, probably because I have never heard a Hibs manager talk like this before in all my time supporting our club.

What is undeniable IMHO is that in the early stages the team looked a bit scared and WERE hiding (as Neil suggested in his interview). I was sitting quite close to the pitch near the centre circle and from that viewpoint it appeared obvious (esp from throw-ins) that some of the team didn't fancy it having gone one down.

However I was also massively proud of our fightback and would have liked to see Neil recognise that tactics were probably wrong and change had to be made. I would really hate Fraser Fyvie to get singled out for being subbed as well, I like him and he wasn't to blame for the first 30 mins - more worried he was going to get sent off after his booking for the Christie free kick.

But on reflection I am pleased we have a manager who simply won't accept second best. I reckon his man management is spot on and what he said to the players in the dressing room as individuals may have been a bit more supportive than what he said to media - remembering that what he says to media isn't always aimed at players and perhaps more so at sending a message to our opponents next year?

Either way enjoyed that game and proud of the club and our supporters today - we're miles ahead of where we have been in recent past.

[JimBHibees]

Neil Lennon is brilliant at the psychological aspect of management. Why should he be satisfied? I'm proud of the team but nothing wrong with not wanting more.

All the armchair experts slating his tactics might want to consider that the game is totally different when you concede 2 horrendous goals that were NOTHING to do with tactics.

A good manager adapts though and that's what he did- and guess what? He changed the game with a brave substitution.

Fantasy management is easy with hindsight. I didn't notice any campaign on Hibs.net this week demanding that Holt started at Hampden!!

Agree totally different game if we don't lose early goal.

[brisbanehibs]

I was driving back and was quite surprised to hear his interview, probably because I have never heard a Hibs manager talk like this before in all my time supporting our club.

What is undeniable IMHO is that in the early stages the team looked a bit scared and WERE hiding (as Neil suggested in his interview). I was sitting quite close to the pitch near the centre circle and from that viewpoint it appeared obvious (esp from throw-ins) that some of the team didn't fancy it having gone one down.

However I was also massively proud of our fightback and would have liked to see Neil recognise that tactics were probably wrong and change had to be made. I would really hate Fraser Fyvie to get singled out for being subbed as well, I like him and he wasn't to blame for the first 30 mins - more worried he was going to get sent off after his booking for the Christie free kick.

But on reflection I am pleased we have a manager who simply won't accept second best. I reckon his man management is spot on and what he said to the players in the dressing room as individuals may have been a bit more supportive than what he said to media - remembering that what he says to media isn't always aimed at players and perhaps more so at sending a message to our opponents next year?

Either way enjoyed that game and proud of the club and our supporters today - we're miles ahead of where we have been in recent past.

Replying to my own post but have just watched Neil's Hibs TV interview. Wish he hadn't singled out Darren and also Fyvie like that. Otherwise great to see his passion.

[Borderhibbie76]

Neil Lennon is brilliant at the psychological aspect of management. Why should he be satisfied? I'm proud of the team but nothing wrong with not wanting more.

All the armchair experts slating his tactics might want to consider that the game is totally different when you concede 2 horrendous goals that were NOTHING to do with tactics.

A good manager adapts though and that's what he did- and guess what? He changed the game with a brave substitution.

Fantasy management is easy with hindsight. I didn't notice any campaign on Hibs.net this week demanding that Holt started at Hampden!!
Quite the opposite most posts were demanding he didn't return Holt ot Graham to starting line up mate

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Agree totally different game if we don't lose early goal.

The point it became a totally different game was when we changed formation. Up till that point it was pretty samey with wave upon wave of Aberdeen attacks

[stantonhibby]

The point it became a totally different game was when we changed formation. Up till that point it was pretty samey with wave upon wave of Aberdeen attacks

Wave upon wave?.... come on

[rcarter1]

Neil Lennon is brilliant at the psychological aspect of management. Why should he be satisfied? I'm proud of the team but nothing wrong with not wanting more.

All the armchair experts slating his tactics might want to consider that the game is totally different when you concede 2 horrendous goals that were NOTHING to do with tactics.

A good manager adapts though and that's what he did and guess what? He changed the game with a brave substitution.

Fantasy management is easy with hindsight. I didn't notice any campaign on Hibs.net this week demanding that Holt started at Hampden!!

Agree. He could have mentioned that the tactics werent helping, but the goals were mistakes, and the entire team were asleep for the first 35 minutes. We've seen it before with the team, and its one of these things that is hard to explain, they looked drunk!

Proud as punch that we go back into it and defo unlucky to lose it in the end. Great 60 minutes from Hibs, and wouldve been magic if Marciano scores with the header at the end, but wasn't to be.

I think Lennon's point is that teams succeed when they put in 90 minute performances (like the replay vs Hearts). Today went from horrific shambles to gritty passionate display. A 90 minute performance could well have seen us to the Final.

[lobster]

Wrong. His starting line up was negative and not set up to win the game. Team showed tremendous character and once the formation changes were made we were by far the better team.
Lennon should back his players.

Agreed. Management and team collectively got it wrong at the start. He should've concentrated on the overriding fact that Hibs deserved to win the game and Aberdeen were very lucky today.

[Northernhibee]

It's well known that I don't think he's nearly as good a manager as some on here would make you think - if he was able to say "I got it wrong before I made a change" I'd respect him a lot more and I'd think very differently of him. Was very surprised at his interview and wish that he'd focused on the many positives on display today.

[calumhibee1]

Yep it was his fault from the kickoff.
Stop slavering.
The players to a man **** there pants until the substitution.

Stop slavering? You think they **** themselves until the sub, then seen Holt coming on, were 2-0 down and then totally changed there mindset because of him coming on, yet I'm the one that's slavering? Bringing on Holt was pretty much an admission that his tactics weren't working. It wouldn't have worked even if we hadn't conceded after 12 seconds, Cummings was never going to be able to hold onto the ball up there on his own and it was just going to keep coming back at us. When you can't keep the ball against a free scoring team who have won 16 of there last 20 games it's only ever going to lead to one outcome and that's defeat. Did the players perform poorly in the first 30 mins? Yes. Were the goals that we conceded Neil Lennon fault? No, they were individual errors. Was the overall flow of the play in the first 30 minutes absolutely nothing to do with tactics like Neil Lennon suggested? No, his tactics played a huge part in how poor we were. If you can't see that playing Cummings upfront on his own against the 2nd best defence in the country was a major reason for the way the first 30 mins played out then you know nothing about football I'd suggest. :aok:

[Unseen work]

Imo no one can slag off Lennons tactics when we concede after 10 seconds and the whole game plan goes to pot.

[lord bunberry]

How any one can suggest that Lennon was wrong to slate his players for the first 30 minutes is ridiculous.
That opening minute by Hibs was the worst and most comical I think I have ever witnessed by any hibs team I have ever seen...and I'm nearly 60!
To then see another comical and amateurish goal conceded by our players through splitting a defensive wall and thus allowing the ball to continue on its merry way and sneak in at the near post is infuriating. Little wonder our manager is frustrated.

Lennon called it right.
He knows, as most of us do, that there remains a soft centre to Hibs, in which teams don't have to actually work hard for their goals, as our lot can (and still do) collectively and individually switch off at crucial moments inexplicably...nothing to do with tactics or set-ups.
Of course he was right to say the players were all over the place in the first half hour, but the issue is that he didn't also take responsibility for those 30 minutes. The manager and the team got it wrong for half an hour. Lennon realised this and fixed it. It doesn't have to be a points scoring exercise, it's just a fact. We move on.

[calumhibee1]

Of course he was right to say the players were all over the place in the first half hour, but the issue is that he didn't also take responsibility for those 30 minutes. The manager and the team got it wrong for half an hour. Lennon realised this and fixed it. It doesn't have to be a points scoring exercise, it's just a fact. We move on.

:top marks Everybody was at fault. The players were shocking, the goals we conceded were awful. But Lennons decision to play Cummings up top on his own against such a strong defence was also a shocker, bringing Holt on showed what we could and should have been playing like. I'm sure the players will put there hands up and admit they had a shocking opening half hour, our manager should have done the same rather than throw them under the bus and absolve himself of any blame.

[JimBHibees]

Imo no one can slag off Lennons tactics when we concede after 10 seconds and the whole game plan goes to pot.

Absolutely this.

[steakbake]

I thought he was bang on. I'm gutted we are out. I don't want anymore family fun days like the final v Celtic. The club has needed a winning mentality for most of my time supporting Hibs. Definitely the last 10 or so years at least. I hope Lenny stays on because that's the sort of attitude which will bring more days like 21-05.

[lord bunberry]

:top marks Everybody was at fault. The players were shocking, the goals we conceded were awful. But Lennons decision to play Cummings up top on his own against such a strong defence was also a shocker, bringing Holt on showed what we could and should have been playing like. I'm sure the players will put there hands up and admit they had a shocking opening half hour, our manager should have done the same rather than throw them under the bus and absolve himself of any blame.
Agreed. The difference when we changed formation was like night and day. We weren't in the game up until that point. That doesn't excuse the shocking goals we gave away, but it surely indicates that what we started with was wrong. Does anyone think the game would have played out the same way if we'd continued with the same tactics and formation? I would suggest the final score might have been embarrassing.

[neil7908]

Imo no one can slag off Lennons tactics when we concede after 10 seconds and the whole game plan goes to pot.

I don't want this thread to turn into an anti Lennon thing as he has my backing 100%.

However he set us up wrongly from the start and that was his doing. The fact that Holt coming on changed the game tells you the direction it was going in. It wasn't just the goals we lost, the fact is our general shape was all wrong and invited pressure on us.

Yes individual errors cost us but he needs to see the mistakes he made given we'll probably be playing Aberdeen 4 times next year. If his tactics weren't part of the issue would we be happy to see us play the same 11 that started the game next time we play the Dons? I suspect not.

[QMU-1875]

Winning mentality that this club has needed for a long time. This gallant losing thing that has been celebrated by the club in the recent past will not cut with Lennon.

This is the difference between top clubs and the rest. Would Celtic fans be applauding the come back performance if they had lost 3-2 to Aberdeen having been 2-0 down? He's spot on and the sooner we dont just meekly accept results like this the more we will win trophies.

[lord bunberry]

We should be in the final and the fact that we aren't is solely down to bad defending. Lennon should've accepted that imo.

[steakbake]

Winning mentality that this club has needed for a long time. This gallant losing thing that has been celebrated by the club in the recent past will not cut with Lennon.

This is the difference between top clubs and the rest. Would Celtic fans be applauding the come back performance if they had lost 3-2 to Aberdeen having been 2-0 down? He's spot on and the sooner we dont just meekly accept results like this the more we will win trophies.

100%

[calumhibee1]

Winning mentality that this club has needed for a long time. This gallant losing thing that has been celebrated by the club in the recent past will not cut with Lennon.

This is the difference between top clubs and the rest. Would Celtic fans be applauding the come back performance if they had lost 3-2 to Aberdeen having been 2-0 down? He's spot on and the sooner we dont just meekly accept results like this the more we will win trophies.

Not really a like for like comparison is it? Aberdeen have a significantly bigger budget than us. Celtic have a significantly bigger budget than them. Would Celtic fans be applauding there team if they came from 2-0 down in say a Europa League semi final, and only lost out to a deflected goal to a team who have been significantly better than them for a long time now, say a team like Lyon, Napoli, something along those lines, would be a much fairer comparison. There fans are roasters, so I don't know/care if they would, but the idea you can't appreciate the teams efforts today is daft.

[steakbake]

Not really a like for like comparison is it? Aberdeen have a significantly bigger budget than us. Celtic have a significantly bigger budget than them. Would Celtic fans be applauding there team if they came from 2-0 down in say a Europa League semi final, and only lost out to a deflected goal to a team who have been significantly better than them for a long time now, say a team like Lyon, Napoli, something along those lines, would be a much fairer comparison. There fans are roasters, so I don't know/care if they would, but the idea you can't appreciate the teams efforts today is daft.

Not the same thing. I don't think anyone has said anything about not appreciating the team's efforts. But I found Lennon's thoughts reflected best what the situation is. You can appreciate the efforts, while not commiserating with being the galant losers.

[davym7062]

how can anyone say the tactics were wrong when we never got a chance to see if they were correct!!! mcginn trying to be Ronaldo from the kick off!!!! imo NL WAS QUITE RIGHT TO SLATE THEM!!! they regrouped and done well but the damage was already done

[wookie70]

Winning mentality that this club has needed for a long time. This gallant losing thing that has been celebrated by the club in the recent past will not cut with Lennon.

This is the difference between top clubs and the rest. Would Celtic fans be applauding the come back performance if they had lost 3-2 to Aberdeen having been 2-0 down? He's spot on and the sooner we dont just meekly accept results like this the more we will win trophies.

You don't get three points or to cup finals just because you have a winning mentality. It helps but you needs the players, the tactics and a shape that works for the groups of players. I'm not meekly accepting defeat I was fuming about the way we played, personal responsibility and the shape of the team in the first 30 minutes. I wasn't blaming just Lennon as some of the players looked half asleep. I don't think anyone is worried Lennon called out the players for the first 30 minutes it is the point that he, yet again, took no responsibility. He didn't have to take all the responsibility but he should have shouldered some of the burden imo. Time will tell if he is the man management genius that some on here think or if he pisses players of by his lack of support.

[lord bunberry]

how can anyone say the tactics were wrong when we never got a chance to see if they were correct!!! mcginn trying to be Ronaldo from the kick off!!!! imo NL WAS QUITE RIGHT TO SLATE THEM!!! they regrouped and done well but the damage was already done
Why did Lennon change the formation then? We win and lose as a team and for the first half hour today we got it wrong collectively. We fixed it and we're an unlucky deflection away from a memorable day. I don't understand the need to take sides in this situation.

[Dashing Bob S]

Neil Lennon is brilliant at the psychological aspect of management. Why should he be satisfied? I'm proud of the team but nothing wrong with not wanting more.

All the armchair experts slating his tactics might want to consider that the game is totally different when you concede 2 horrendous goals that were NOTHING to do with tactics.

A good manager adapts though and that's what he did- and guess what? He changed the game with a brave substitution.

Fantasy management is easy with hindsight. I didn't notice any campaign on Hibs.net this week demanding that Holt started at Hampden!!

Best post on the subject by a million miles.

[calumhibee1]

how can anyone say the tactics were wrong when we never got a chance to see if they were correct!!! mcginn trying to be Ronaldo from the kick off!!!! imo NL WAS QUITE RIGHT TO SLATE THEM!!! they regrouped and done well but the damage was already done

We got half an hour to see if they were correct. Aberdeen battered us and we couldn't get out our half because we had a 5'9 10 stone laddie upfront on his own trying to hold the ball up against the second best defence in the country. He changed the formation and personnel and we looked a different team. That's why we can say that the tactics were wrong.

[truehibernian]

Can't believe people are questioning Lennon here, for years we've argued about being 'soft' and 'easy to beat' and yet here's a guy that tells us and the players that if we're all honest we've been yearning for a boss to impart to the team ?

I love Daz but he had a mare first 20 - bear in mind Lennon has been lavish with praise for him, but if he makes a fatal error, it needs to be highlighted - how else do players improve their game and concentration ?

Aberdeen were there for beating today, I'm impressed by our fight and ability to get back into the game, but not the schoolboy errors.

Lennon wants 3 points and 'name in the hat' - simple as that - I'm delighted he's boss and he's keeping good players and a tight squad on their toes !

[Dashing Bob S]

Lennon's 'tactics' couldn't have cost us the first goal - the game had barely started.

Yes, we were under pressure after that, but they didn't cost us the second goal - it was a combo of bad goalkeeping positioning and the wall abdicating its responsibilities.

Lennon is too experienced to undermine his players for nothing. He's setting out his stall for next season. Nothing less than total professionalism will suffice.

[davym7062]

We got half an hour to see if they were correct. Aberdeen battered us and we couldn't get out our half because we had a 5'9 10 stone laddie upfront on his own trying to hold the ball up against the second best defence in the country. He changed the formation and personnel and we looked a different team. That's why we can say that the tactics were wrong.

no we never!!! we got 13 seconds!!! the whole thing changed when we lost the early goal

[Northernhibee]

The second argument is, do constant bollockings in the press actually have any effect after a while?

[lord bunberry]

no we never!!! we got 13 seconds!!! the whole thing changed when we lost the early goal
If the whole thing changed after 13 seconds why didn't he change the formation earlier? I watched 30 mins of hibs being completely outplayed and 60 mins of us more than matching them. It's not a coincidence that our change in fortunes in the match coincided with our change in formation. How anyone can have watched that today and disagree is beyond me.

[calumhibee1]

no we never!!! we got 13 seconds!!! the whole thing changed when we lost the early goal

Did we stop playing Cummings upfront on his own after 13 seconds? If we hadn't of conceded after 13 seconds was Cummings going to be holding off defenders, winning headers and roughing up their defence, bringing others into play? It was never going to work, whether we conceded after 13 seconds or not.

[Bostonhibby]

Great fight back. We're showing that we won't just lie down but the manner of the goals we lost means I'm with Neil setting the standard for pushing on rather than saying defeat is okay.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

We got half an hour to see if they were correct. Aberdeen battered us and we couldn't get out our half because we had a 5'9 10 stone laddie upfront on his own trying to hold the ball up against the second best defence in the country. He changed the formation and personnel and we looked a different team. That's why we can say that the tactics were wrong.
Surely the plan wasn't to play long balls upfront but to outnumber them in the middle and control the ball and the game.Instead half the team started as if they'd never see a ball before and the other half didn't want anything to do with it.When McGeouch plays we need plenty in midfield because he can only play at about 70percent.The one time this season when he bravely went for it full out he immediately injured himself.

[calumhibee1]

Surely the plan wasn't to play long balls upfront but to outnumber them in the middle and control the ball and the game.Instead half the team started as if they'd never see a ball before and the other half didn't want anything to do with it.When McGeouch plays we need plenty in midfield because he can only play at about 70percent.The one time this season when he bravely went for it full out he immediately injured himself.

We've spent the majority of the season lobbing balls into the channel and trying to get the ball forward quickly. If this was an Alan Stubbs team then the highlighted part probably would have been the idea, but we go back to front most of the time now.

[CathroMustStay]

Lennon was 100% correct.

[Ronniekirk]

Lennon couldn't of foreseen how sloppy a start we would make No matter the team he put out it should of been capable of dealing with that first goal
But agree it was clear to see that things weren't working out for us after that and Cummings was isolated and we carried little goal scoring threat
Big Effie was looking at the bench as if to tell Lennon that
Should Lennon of been braver and made switch sooner In hindsight yes but he waited till the second goal giving us a mountain to climb and if Dylan hadn't gone off injured and they hadn't got lucky deflection we certainly looked capable of going on to win
Doni want us to. Slip back into role of gallant losers absolutely not so will be interesting now how quickly squad gets revamped and go again next season
We need to build of the Momentum and hope we get a full house last game of the Season to show Team our appreciation and let them know we will be there for those that commit to the Club next season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[truehibernian]

Lennon was 100% correct.

I also think it was his subliminal way of saying there's an upcoming 'cull'.

He doesn't tolerate mediocrity, and now the 'jobs done' i.e. promotion, I think a lot of players on the periphery will exit - which is good for the club in a footballing sense. I also think he'll fast track the likes of Shaw.

Today was a 'free shot' and he's seen we're not far away, but equally, still frail - he likes tall strong defenders so I can see Gray and Lewis having real challenges to their positions, and wide men added. He's been very cautious this season, but now promotion is sealed, I think he wants far more attack minded options.

[houstonhibbee]

You don't get three points or to cup finals just because you have a winning mentality. It helps but you needs the players, the tactics and a shape that works for the groups of players. I'm not meekly accepting defeat I was fuming about the way we played, personal responsibility and the shape of the team in the first 30 minutes. I wasn't blaming just Lennon as some of the players looked half asleep. I don't think anyone is worried Lennon called out the players for the first 30 minutes it is the point that he, yet again, took no responsibility. He didn't have to take all the responsibility but he should have shouldered some of the burden imo. Time will tell if he is the man management genius that some on here think or if he pisses players of by his lack of support.
I think its a bit unfair to say we didn't have a game plan. I think the intent was to play the ball on the deck through midfield and get it wide to McGeough and Boyle. None would argue with that intent however McInnes sat up his team to counter that by closing us down so that our midfield was stifled. On top of that we gave away two soft goals. were in danger of losing a third killing the game and having Fyvie sent off. Flashes of 2012 were coming to mind.
By bringing on Holt we bypassed midfield and Aberdeen didn't know how to deal with that, thus we were in the ascendancy. Credit to Lennon to make that change when he did.

[wookie70]

I think its a bit unfair to say we didn't have a game plan. I think the intent was to play the ball on the deck through midfield and get it wide to McGeough and Boyle. None would argue with that intent however McInnes sat up his team to counter that by closing us down so that our midfield was stifled. On top of that we gave away two soft goals. were in danger of losing a third killing the game and having Fyvie sent off. Flashes of 2012 were coming to mind.
By bringing on Holt we bypassed midfield and Aberdeen didn't know how to deal with that, thus we were in the ascendancy. Credit to Lennon to make that change when he did.

Don't think I did say he didn't have a game plan but it certainly didn't work and from the looks of it the players had no idea what was going on from the first whistle. You are having a punt at what the game plan was but I never saw us playing at all and we looked outnumbered in every area of the park in the first half hour. I would argue with that intent as it is different to the way we have played all year and we were going to leave Cummings up front on his own for long periods. If that was the plan I would have said it wasn't a very good one. As it is we have no idea what the plan was because it was so badly implemented by the players that it is impossible to know what it was.

The good news from today was that Lennon eventually out-thought his opposite number albeit we had to go two down for it to happen. He also did it with enough time for us to win. If he gets credit for the change, rightly so, he has to take some responsibility for the start.

[houstonhibbee]

Don't think I did say he didn't have a game plan but it certainly didn't work and from the looks of it the players had no idea what was going on from the first whistle. You are having a punt at what the game plan was but I never saw us playing at all and we looked outnumbered in every area of the park in the first half hour. I would argue with that intent as it is different to the way we have played all year and we were going to leave Cummings up front on his own for long periods. If that was the plan I would have said it wasn't a very good one. As it is we have no idea what the plan was because it was so badly implemented by the players that it is impossible to know what it was.

The good news from today was that Lennon eventually out-thought his opposite number albeit we had to go two down for it to happen. He also did it with enough time for us to win. If he gets credit for the change, rightly so, he has to take some responsibility for the start.
we've endured plenty games where we have bypassed midfield and lumped it up to Holt and Cummings to little effect. At least as he stated he played all the ball players today but it didn't work

[AgentDaleCooper]

we'll never know if lennon had the right game plan or not, because it went out the window in about 20 seconds. we played brilliantly for 60 minutes, but until holt came on we were a disgrace.

lennon is trying to instill a winning attitude in this team, and i think he knows what he's doing. i've never had so much trust in a hibs manager as i do neil lennon :aok:

:flag::flag::flag:

[Dunbar Hibee]

He ****ed up with the way he set up today. You live and learn.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Imo no one can slag off Lennons tactics when we concede after 10 seconds and the whole game plan goes to pot.

Correct......

[Cabbage East]

Lennon was spot on. His mentality is what we need to do something special, instead of be a mediocre mid table club.

[QMU-1875]

Not really a like for like comparison is it? Aberdeen have a significantly bigger budget than us. Celtic have a significantly bigger budget than them. Would Celtic fans be applauding there team if they came from 2-0 down in say a Europa League semi final, and only lost out to a deflected goal to a team who have been significantly better than them for a long time now, say a team like Lyon, Napoli, something along those lines, would be a much fairer comparison. There fans are roasters, so I don't know/care if they would, but the idea you can't appreciate the teams efforts today is daft.

Id disagree that Aberdeen have a significantly higher budget to the extent that you mention, no matter who we were up against today the first 30 minutes were pathetic and tactics can never legislate for the kinds of simple mistakes they were making.

[QMU-1875]

You don't get three points or to cup finals just because you have a winning mentality. It helps but you needs the players, the tactics and a shape that works for the groups of players. I'm not meekly accepting defeat I was fuming about the way we played, personal responsibility and the shape of the team in the first 30 minutes. I wasn't blaming just Lennon as some of the players looked half asleep. I don't think anyone is worried Lennon called out the players for the first 30 minutes it is the point that he, yet again, took no responsibility. He didn't have to take all the responsibility but he should have shouldered some of the burden imo. Time will tell if he is the man management genius that some on here think or if he pisses players of by his lack of support.

It's certainly a massive part of winning games and getting to cup finals, I never said anywhere that it's the only thing. It's been one of the aspects we have sorely missed for years. I'm all up for congratulating players for their efforts but I want to see this club win trophies as regularly as they deserve and would much rather be celebrating genuine success than losing in style. The fact is we should have beat Aberdeen yesterday and if it wasn't for a pathetic first 30 minutes that tactics could never account for (IMO) then we would be celebrating reaching yet another cup final.

[Onceinawhile]

The tactics cost us the first goal imo.

Start holt and our kick off is one pass back followed by a diagonal. We knew cummings wouldn't get near it so tried passing it back, which cost the goal.

[marinello59]

The tactics cost us the first goal imo.

Start holt and our kick off is one pass back followed by a diagonal. We knew cummings wouldn't get near it so tried passing it back, which cost the goal.

I not so sure you can blame tactics. It was just a comedy of errors by the players before shape etc had any bearing on things.

[blackpoolhibs]

Stop slavering? You think they **** themselves until the sub, then seen Holt coming on, were 2-0 down and then totally changed there mindset because of him coming on, yet I'm the one that's slavering? Bringing on Holt was pretty much an admission that his tactics weren't working. It wouldn't have worked even if we hadn't conceded after 12 seconds, Cummings was never going to be able to hold onto the ball up there on his own and it was just going to keep coming back at us. When you can't keep the ball against a free scoring team who have won 16 of there last 20 games it's only ever going to lead to one outcome and that's defeat. Did the players perform poorly in the first 30 mins? Yes. Were the goals that we conceded Neil Lennon fault? No, they were individual errors. Was the overall flow of the play in the first 30 minutes absolutely nothing to do with tactics like Neil Lennon suggested? No, his tactics played a huge part in how poor we were. If you can't see that playing Cummings upfront on his own against the 2nd best defence in the country was a major reason for the way the first 30 mins played out then you know nothing about football I'd suggest. :aok:

100% spot on

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Correct......

This was all of the boys i was with's take on it too.

Game plan wad goosed afrer 12 seconds.

Plus people forget Aberdeen arent just going to let us implemrnt a game plan - they also had one, and are a better team.

[Jones28]

Imo no one can slag off Lennons tactics when we concede after 10 seconds and the whole game plan goes to pot.

Agree to an extent. Terrible starts and individual errors can't really be legislated for especially so early on.

Holt should have started the game however, which was my thoughts pre match.

[Jones28]

The tactics cost us the first goal imo.

Start holt and our kick off is one pass back followed by a diagonal. We knew cummings wouldn't get near it so tried passing it back, which cost the goal.

Someone here mentioned that we kick off like that a lot and Aberdeen were ready for it.

Still makes me shudder watching that goal back.

[danhibees1875]

The tactics cost us the first goal imo.

Start holt and our kick off is one pass back followed by a diagonal. We knew cummings wouldn't get near it so tried passing it back, which cost the goal.

I'm very critical of that kick off approach. The diagonal punt to give them a throw in is frustrating to watch. Trying something different wasn't an awful idea, Mcginn just came across a wall of red after beating the first man. Bartley done well to win it back before McGregor made a mess of the situation.

[Since90+2]

Lennon is accusing the players of "not taking responsibility".

There's someone else I can think of that may apply to , Neil.

[mjhibby]

Id disagree that Aberdeen have a significantly higher budget to the extent that you mention, no matter who we were up against today the first 30 minutes were pathetic and tactics can never legislate for the kinds of simple mistakes they were making.

They do have the third biggest budget in scotland and have a lot more than us due to a difference of £1.5m for finishing second in the spl and winning the championship. Even the team finishing bottom of the spl gets double what the championship winners get in revenue. That's how clubs like Hamilton survive on tiny crowds. Plus you have the TV money as well. Our income next year will jump by roughly £900,000 if we finish 6th in the spl plus our share of the TV money. It's the fans and the cup runs that have sustained us these last couple of seasons and should we maintain our crowds around the 14 - 15,000 then our income will be as much as the dons. We kept the players on spl wages in the championship and the negotiating on the new deals is probably around how much the wage will be increased. The huge increase in attendances this season after the cup final means we are able to get guys like Swanson and will be able to get more of our targets than before as money is what counts to most players. We have a good squad but with efe and Marciano away after their loans and the likes of McLean Graham etc being let go we have a great chance to get a really competitive squad together for years to come.

[WhileTheChief..]

If Holt has started the game and we'd lost the goal in 12 seconds you would all still be blaming Lennon's tactics and game plan etc.

Wanna blame someone? Blame McGregor and McGinn etc. They cost us our place in the final, not Lennon.

It was a good game that we lost by an incredibly flukey goal. It happens. Sometimes you just gotta take a sore one, learn from it and move on.

[B.H.F.C]

Doesn't matter how you set up, it wouldn't stop you losing a comical goal like that.

But I thought his team selection was wrong. There was no balance for me with four central midfielders in the team. We didn't have an out ball at all. When we were in possession we just had nowhere to go until the change was made.

[makaveli1875]

If Holt has started the game and we'd lost the goal in 12 seconds you would all still be blaming Lennon's tactics and game plan etc.

Wanna blame someone? Blame McGregor and McGinn etc. They cost us our place in the final, not Lennon.

It was a good game that we lost by an incredibly flukey goal. It happens. Sometimes you just gotta take a sore one, learn from it and move on.

:top marks

[mjhibby]

I thought lennons interview summed it up perfectly. Didnt realise the issue with efe but Everything he said was true. The difference with his and Stubbs approach when analysis of defeats is striking and maybe he is a wee bit ott at times but players have to accept when they've not played well. What they need to do is then go and produce the goods in the next big game. McGinn and Cummings didn't play well but Lennon didn't name them as he didn't have too. The team showed great character to comeback and we looked most likely to win. Yes the team will be annoyed at how we lost but but should be immensely proud of their efforts. Lennon praises the players when they play well and sure he backs them in the dressing room. Every team playing us now knows they will have a battle and that wasnt always the case previously.

[northstandhibby]

I thought lennons interview summed it up perfectly. Didnt realise the issue with efe but Everything he said was true. The difference with his and Stubbs approach when analysis of defeats is striking and maybe he is a wee bit ott at times but players have to accept when they've not played well. What they need to do is then go and produce the goods in the next big game. McGinn and Cummings didn't play well but Lennon didn't name them as he didn't have too. The team showed great character to comeback and we looked most likely to win. Yes the team will be annoyed at how we lost but but should be immensely proud of their efforts. Lennon praises the players when they play well and sure he backs them in the dressing room. Every team playing us now knows they will have a battle and that wasnt always the case previously.

Great post.

Just about sums up the situation. The team deserved both criticism and praise for the unfortunate errors for both Dons goals yet the fightback was fantastic and bar the fluke from the Dons and possible intervention from beaton I'm certain we would have won the match overall.

:flag:

glory glory

[Greenworld]

His suggestion that it wasn't down to tactics is a total cop out. Yes, the goals were individual mistakes and he can't do anything about that, but the overall flow of the first half hour was down to him playing Cummings up top on his own.
Can't agree with that first two goals were player errors .mcgregor should have passed back to keeper to clear for first . Mcgeoch broke from the wall for second if he had stood still would have hit him.
Nothing to do with tactics

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[Danderhall Hibs]

Lennon's interview on hibs tv is excellent.

[Borderhibbie76]

how can anyone say the tactics were wrong when we never got a chance to see if they were correct!!! mcginn trying to be Ronaldo from the kick off!!!! imo NL WAS QUITE RIGHT TO SLATE THEM!!! they regrouped and done well but the damage was already done
What the hell was Mcginn trying to do there....absolutely shocking mate

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Borderhibbie76]

The tactics cost us the first goal imo.

Start holt and our kick off is one pass back followed by a diagonal. We knew cummings wouldn't get near it so tried passing it back, which cost the goal.
Nonsense mate Mcginn thought he was Messi and it went Tits up...no tactics can legislate for that I'm afraid. I agree the team set up was wrong from start but u can't blame the 1st goal on the team.set up

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Baldy Foghorn]

Nonsense mate Mcginn thought he was Messi and it went Tits up...no tactics can legislate for that I'm afraid. I agree the team set up was wrong from start but u can't blame the 1st goal on the team.set up

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

:top marks

[Kato]

Those who think Lennon is in the wrong over statement would have hated having Turnbull as manager.

[dastardly8]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39680019

Some hard-hitting stuff in his interview.
He is spot on with his blasting of the players , the first half an hour was awful , remember it is a job and they get paid for it , if any of us in our jobs weren't performing you would get blasted too , it's nice to have a manager who is willing to show the fight and passion to improve our team and can only be commended for it.

[HibernianJK]

First half an hour was poor yet they didn't have any real chances. We were poor but they weren't great either. Think it's very harsh blaming players for that today.

[Since90+2]

He is spot on with his blasting of the players , the first half an hour was awful , remember it is a job and they get paid for it , if any of us in our jobs weren't performing you would get blasted too , it's nice to have a manager who is willing to show the fight and passion to improve our team and can only be commended for it.

The shape of the team was completely wrong prior to Holt coming on. We offered absolutely nothing going forward as Cummings was so isolated. Lennon set the team up to play that way so he has to take some responsibility himself.

The fact we lost two daft goals shouldn't take away from the fact that tactically he got it wrong at the start of the game.

[snooky]

Someone here mentioned that we kick off like that a lot and Aberdeen were ready for it.

Still makes me shudder watching that goal back.

I've never noticed that we kick off the same way. If that's the case, it's crazy. The equivalent of putting your pen kicks in the same corner every time. Definitely gives your opponent an advantage.

[calumhibee1]

The shape of the team was completely wrong prior to Holt coming on. We offered absolutely nothing going forward as Cummings was so isolated. Lennon set the team up to play that way so he has to take some responsibility himself.

The fact we lost two daft goals shouldn't take away from the fact that tactically he got it wrong at the start of the game.

This. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two goals we conceded and the complete first half hour. The two goals were individual errors, not Neil Lennon fault in the slightest. The overall performance in the first half hour, which he called pathetic, like you said was down to him leaving Cummings isolated upfront and us not being able to get out our own half because of it. How people can't see this when the sub and change of formation totally changed the flow of the game is beyond me.

[Hibbyradge]

He's absolutely right.

I remember Alex Ferguson blasting his Aberdeen players for a lack lustre display after they had beaten Rangers to WIN the cup.

That's the kind of prodessional attitude I want from our manager.

The fans can be gallant losers, if they want. Neil Lennon is a winner.

[Hibbyradge]

This. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two goals we conceded and the complete first half hour. The two goals were individual errors, not Neil Lennon fault in the slightest. The overall performance in the first half hour, which he called pathetic, like you said was down to him leaving Cummings isolated upfront and us not being able to get out our own half because of it. How people can't see this when the sub and change of formation totally changed the flow of the game is beyond me.

The 2 mistakes ruined our game plan. Apart from those errors, Aberdeen created zero chances even with the majority of possession.

[Greenworld]

This. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two goals we conceded and the complete first half hour. The two goals were individual errors, not Neil Lennon fault in the slightest. The overall performance in the first half hour, which he called pathetic, like you said was down to him leaving Cummings isolated upfront and us not being able to get out our own half because of it. How people can't see this when the sub and change of formation totally changed the flow of the game is beyond me.
The first goal killed us that's why we struggled ...a stupid error...Aberdeen went for the kill and overun a nervy hibs for a while.
The game settled the players knew they had let themselves first and foremost. Upped there game.. tactical change worked at that point as the players played how we no they can.


Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[Eyrie]

The 2 mistakes ruined our game plan. Apart from those errors, Aberdeen created zero chances even with the majority of possession.

I don't understand how Rooney's goal ruined our game plan.

That would mean that if McGregor had passed the ball to Ambrose or if Marciano had saved or if Rooney's shot was off target then the next 30 minutes would have been an even contest, instead of Aberdeen dominating us with constant pressure to stop us playing on the deck and then regaining possession when we hoofed the ball up to Cummings, who is ineffectual in that situation.

It would also mean that changing the formation by bringing on Holt would have had no impact on the game instead of turning it into an even contest and then looking the more likely team to go on and win.

Neither of the above would be correct. Losing an early goal due to individual errors was a set back, but there were 89 and a half minutes left to recover if we had a good enough game plan, which we didn't. The last time we were at Hampden we took the lead after three minutes, yet our opponents managed to recover and led after 64 minutes.

[neil7908]

The 2 mistakes ruined our game plan. Apart from those errors, Aberdeen created zero chances even with the majority of possession.

Genuinely curious what you think the game plan was as I couldn't see one! Yes Aberdeen didn't create huge number of chances but they dominated possession and we offered nothing going forward.

Lennon right to criticse players but shouldn't be immune himself

[matty_f]

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?

[truehibernian]

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?

I think getting the first goal would have really unsettled Aberdeen matty and had them thinking 'here we go again'. Like you say, no one can predict what would have happened. Getting back to 2-2 was a fantastic effort, but yet again Dylan's injury comes back to seriously impede our sides progress........he needs to have that sorted or for me he has to be replaced with a more consistent player.

Cummings disappointed me yesterday, very off the boil and lacked hunger. Holt, Boyle, and Gray all stuck to their task, Holt the MotM for us.

Note to Lennon though - there is no need to play two defensive midfielders against any Scottish side bar Celtic. Playing Bartley with Fyvie together was madness for me.

[21.05.2016]

I like this attitude. Lennons a winner and won't accept being second best even if it is against opposition who are better and we gave a good fight.

I like this mentality, its a winners mentality and i hope he drills it into the team.

[Billy Whizz]

I think getting the first goal would have really unsettled Aberdeen matty and had them thinking 'here we go again'. Like you say, no one can predict what would have happened. Getting back to 2-2 was a fantastic effort, but yet again Dylan's injury comes back to seriously impede our sides progress........he needs to have that sorted or for me he has to be replaced with a more consistent player.

Cummings disappointed me yesterday, very off the boil and lacked hunger. Holt, Boyle, and Gray all stuck to their task, Holt the MotM for us.

Note to Lennon though - there is no need to play two defensive midfielders against any Scottish side bar Celtic. Playing Bartley with Fyvie together was madness for me.

On your last point, maybe that was our extra insurance policy for the 1st60 mins or so, however the players blew it after 12 seconds

[MWHIBBIES]

Winning mentality that this club has needed for a long time. This gallant losing thing that has been celebrated by the club in the recent past will not cut with Lennon.

This is the difference between top clubs and the rest. Would Celtic fans be applauding the come back performance if they had lost 3-2 to Aberdeen having been 2-0 down? He's spot on and the sooner we dont just meekly accept results like this the more we will win trophies.Yeah, abusing our players when they lose is what we've been missing for years now...

Players give everything and lose to a total fluke? they deserve the support they got.

[truehibernian]

On your last point, maybe that was our extra insurance policy for the 1st60 mins or so, however the players blew it after 12 seconds

For me Billy it tells McInnes we are set up to soak and counter and invites attack. If Aberdeen have a weak spot it's in central defence (for me) and we should have had two up top to mix it.

Like you say, you cannot legislate for the first goal and the timing it happened. Knocked us for six and we took an age to get some composure. The irony is the players will be sitting thinking today how close they were and how they were more than a match for Aberdeen - a real opportunity missed for me.

[MB62]

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?



Note to Lennon though - there is no need to play two defensive midfielders against any Scottish side bar Celtic. Playing Bartley with Fyvie together was madness for me.

Aberdeen had four guys all ready to attack McGinn from kick off and their whole game plan was obviously to pressure us on the ball, which worked.
Playing Fyvie and Bartley in the same side just does not work, it never has done and was a big tactical mistake by Lennon. Fair enough, have a go at your players for the first 30 minutes of rubbish, but it was YOUR tactics that caused this. Fyvie and Bartley don't seem to know who should be doing what when they are in the same team playing the same role, it HAS to be one or other but NEVER both.
The extra midfield player meant leaving Cummings on his own up front, a role the laddie struggles with and was bullied out the game for the first 30 minutes. It also allowed Aberdeen an extra man to put pressure on us from midfield, and with Cummings being on his own, left the defence and midfield without an 'out' ball up the park. Their early goal didn't change anything tactically, we were just never in it. Their 2nd goal FORCED Lennon in to a change, thankfully (A bit Fenlon like v Falkirk at Hampden) and if he is going to have a dash at the players, then he at least should be man enough to admit to his own mistakes first.
I don't think we shat it in the first 30 minutes, we were just tactically inept. Taking off Fyvie allowed Bartley to play his normal game and the big man was impressive after that. Mainly though, bring on Holt gave the Dons defenders something to worry about and forced them in to a tactical change, leaving our midfield a bit more time on the ball and gave us the 'out' ball we didn't have earlier.
Lennon said the players have to play for 90 or 120 minutes if necessary, and of course he is right. However, that doesn't happen every single time, just like managers don't get their team selections and tactics right every single time.

[Billy Whizz]

For me Billy it tells McInnes we are set up to soak and counter and invites attack. If Aberdeen have a weak spot it's in central defence (for me) and we should have had two up top to mix it.

Like you say, you cannot legislate for the first goal and the timing it happened. Knocked us for six and we took an age to get some composure. The irony is the players will be sitting thinking today how close they were and how they were more than a match for Aberdeen - a real opportunity missed for me.
I agree with your point that we should have been putting more pressure on their back 4, and it proved when we did, that it worked. A missed opportunity for Hibs

[Ronniekirk]

For me Billy it tells McInnes we are set up to soak and counter and invites attack. If Aberdeen have a weak spot it's in central defence (for me) and we should have had two up top to mix it.

Like you say, you cannot legislate for the first goal and the timing it happened. Knocked us for six and we took an age to get some composure. The irony is the players will be sitting thinking today how close they were and how they were more than a match for Aberdeen - a real opportunity missed for me.

In hindsight i agree with this But i wasn't sure we could beat Aberdeen before the game so wasn't. getting to excited about our prospects
When Dylan equalised i genuinely thought there was Only going to be one winner Us Although Dylan going off injured was another blow we could of done without


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eyrie]

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?

I don't get this view.

It means that the same players who were jambottling it as a result of conceding a goal after 12 seconds miraculously found their composure only after we had conceded a second and seen Aberdeen hit the side netting.

I find it simpler to consider that they found some composure after the change of formation and the immediate impact that the previously omitted second striker had.

[delbert]

Yeah, abusing our players when they lose is what we've been missing for years now...

Players give everything and lose to a total fluke? they deserve the support they got.

Sorry, I don't think he is in any way abusing the players when he simply points out facts, the defending for the first two goals was utterly rank and that's what ultimately lost us the game, not just the fluke third. We have had to accept mediocrity for a long time up until Stubbs came in and I think it's great that we have now attracted a winner and a leader as his replacement, someone who will not accept the failures of the past. He praised the players for the good things they did in the last hour, but the first 30 minutes was comedy and they deserved the comments made, I've been bollocked at my work a few times and you deal with it !

[MWHIBBIES]

Sorry, I don't think he is in any way abusing the players when he simply points out facts, the defending for the first two goals was utterly rank and that's what ultimately lost us the game, not just the fluke third. We have had to accept mediocrity for a long time up until Stubbs came in and I think it's great that we have now attracted a winner and a leader as his replacement, someone who will not accept the failures of the past. He praised the players for the good things they did in the last hour, but the first 30 minutes was comedy and they deserved the comments made, I've been bollocked at my work a few times and you deal with it !I've no problem with Lennon criticising the players but he picked them and not starting Holt was his mistakes.

I was debating the point of us being wrong to cheer and applaud our players at full time. Personally I will always do that when they have worked so hard and played well overall.

[Greenworld]

I don't get this view.

It means that the same players who were jambottling it as a result of conceding a goal after 12 seconds miraculously found their composure only after we had conceded a second and seen Aberdeen hit the side netting.

I find it simpler to consider that they found some composure after the change of formation and the immediate impact that the previously omitted second striker had.
Utter nonsense and quite frankly a scary assessment

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

Utter nonsense and quite frankly a scary assessment

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

If his post is nonsense then what is it that you thought caused such a massive swing in the flow of the game that just happened to coincide with the substitution and change of tactics?

[Greenworld]

If his post is nonsense then what is it that you thought caused such a massive swing in the flow of the game that just happened to coincide with the substitution and change of tactics?
Tactics don't come into it when you loose a goal so early..how can they?
Mcgregor was shocking and very unlikely him but cost us big time.
That gave Aberdeen the incentive to push on ,we were rattled no more.
Second goal Mcgeoch broke from the 2 man wall and caused the second goal.
Nothing else no tactics can allow for either of these mistakes.
Yes the game changed after that but I think the players went of for **** sake we better try harder was more the reason than any tactics

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

Tactics don't come into it when you loose a goal so early..how can they?
Mcgregor was shocking and very unlikely him but cost us big time.
That gave Aberdeen the incentive to push on ,we were rattled no more.
Second goal Mcgeoch broke from the 2 man wall and caused the second goal.
Nothing else no tactics can allow for either of these mistakes.
Yes the game changed after that but I think the players went of for **** sake we better try harder was more the reason than any tactics

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

I find the idea that the players decided half an hour and 2-0 down in a cup semi final that it was time to "try harder" to be a lot more like nonsense than the idea that the substitute and change of tactics lead to us having an out ball and being able to hold the ball up and actually get out our own half.

Nobodies debating the goals whether the goals were the result of individual mistakes or not, cause they definitely were. But the fact we couldn't string two passes together for half an hour because we had nobody upfront to hit was 100% a fault of the tactics/formation/personnel that we started the game with.

[matty_f]

I don't get this view.

It means that the same players who were jambottling it as a result of conceding a goal after 12 seconds miraculously found their composure only after we had conceded a second and seen Aberdeen hit the side netting.

I find it simpler to consider that they found some composure after the change of formation and the immediate impact that the previously omitted second striker had.
What I'm saying is that we can't say how the game would have stayed had a) Aberdeen not got a massive lift from the immediate goal, and b) Hibs weren't so rocked by conceding an immediate goal.

Imagine McGinn had evaded the initial tackles and we scored right from kick off, do you think the next twenty minutes of the have would have played out the same as they actually did?

[Greenworld]

I find the idea that the players decided half an hour and 2-0 down in a cup semi final that it was time to "try harder" to be a lot more like nonsense than the idea that the substitute and change of tactics lead to us having an out ball and being able to hold the ball up and actually get out our own half.

Nobodies debating the goals whether the goals were the result of individual mistakes or not, cause they definitely were. But the fact we couldn't string two passes together for half an hour because we had nobody upfront to hit was 100% a fault of the tactics/formation/personnel that we started the game with.
Calumn if you think that tactics were to cause for us being 2 down then sorry pal you don't have a clue. No amount of tactics could solve these errors .
And yes something kicks in when you are down I read on here most weeks everyone slagging Holt now you try to tell me he is out savior lol I don't think so

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

What I'm saying is that we can't say how the game would have stayed had a) Aberdeen not got a massive lift from the immediate goal, and b) Hibs weren't so rocked by conceding an immediate goal.

Imagine McGinn had evaded the initial tackles and we scored right from kick off, do you think the next twenty minutes of the have would have played out the same as they actually did?


Absolutely. The key thing was that our game plan went out of the window after 12 seconds due to a sequence of three individual mistakes.

I think Lenny went a bit overboard with his criticism tbh. Yes, he can be frustrated at the mistakes but we turned the game around and lost due to a cruel piece of bad luck.

[calumhibee1]

Calumn if you think that tactics were to cause for us being 2 down then sorry pal you don't have a clue. No amount of tactics could solve these errors .
And yes something kicks in when you are down I read on here most weeks everyone slagging Holt now you try to tell me he is out savior lol I don't think so

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Did you just totally ignore my post? I specifically said that the 2 goals were individual errors :confused:

So you think the explanation to our resurgence was that at 2-0 down something just naturally kicked in with the players and made them go from a performance that could only be described as a 1/10, mainly because Cummings was so isolated upfront, in the first half hour, turned into an 8/10 performance in the last hour and it just happened to coincide with us making the sub and changing formation and Cummings no longer being isolated upfront? Yet I don't have a clue? :LOL:

[Greenworld]

Did you just totally ignore my post? I specifically said that the 2 goals were individual errors :confused:

So you think the explanation to our resurgence was that at 2-0 down something just naturally kicked in with the players and made them go from a performance that could only be described as a 1/10, mainly because Cummings was so isolated upfront, in the first half hour, turned into an 8/10 performance in the last hour and it just happened to coincide with us making the sub and changing formation and Cummings no longer being isolated upfront? Yet I don't have a clue? [emoji38]
I think you are blinkered by the one up front being a signicant factor.
You yourself point out that the goals were individual errors .
The substitution did make an impact no doubt about it however in thinking about it now what did Cummings contribute after or before that ..hee haw
So in many respects we were still one up front .😂😂😂

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

I think you are blinkered by the one up front being a signicant factor.
You yourself point out that the goals were individual errors .
The substitution did make an impact no doubt about it however in thinking about it now what did Cummings contribute after or before that ..hee haw
So in many respects we were still one up front .😂😂😂

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

The one upfront for the first half hour was a significant factor in our first half hour performance where we couldn't string two passes together or get out of our own half..

[Greenworld]

The one upfront for the first half hour was a significant factor in our first half hour performance where we couldn't string two passes together or get out of our own half..
Nonsense speak to our manager he will talk you through it calum . It's done and dusted mate look forward to next season exciting times ahead with the team and stadium

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

If things were going well, and we were only 2 down because of individual errors, why did we change the formation?

[Greenworld]

If things were going well, and we were only 2 down because of individual errors, why did we change the formation?
Because we were two down

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

Because we were two down

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

I know that, but surely if the manager was happy with the way we were playing with his formation, he'd keep it going as we still had 70 minutes or so to get back into the game.

Unless he thought as i think, we'd more chance of biting our own arse playing one up front, and he needed to give us someone up front who could hold the ball up so our midfield could get up the park.

[Greenworld]

I know that, but surely if the manager was happy with the way we were playing with his formation, he'd keep it going as we still had 70 minutes or so to get back into the game.

Unless he thought as i think, we'd more chance of biting our own arse playing one up front, and he needed to give us someone up front who could hold the ball up so our midfield could get up the park.
I'm not being cheeky but at two down you obviously need to change .we did went more direct which we have done before. You could argue we should have started that way.
But that would otherwise have stopped the individual errors

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not being cheeky but at two down you obviously need to change .we did went more direct which we have done before. You could argue we should have started that way.
But that would otherwise have stopped the individual errors

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Lennon cant be blamed for any individual errors, but im going to sound like Cathro here, but take away the goals and we were still playing poorly.

The one up front was not working, Cummings was not getting any of the ball, and they were in complete control, and any ball we had was between our midfielders passing it more often than not backwards as we had nothing up front to hit.

Even if we were 0-0, i'd have been astounded if he would have kept the same formation, as we were inviting them on and were hanging on, we were saying it could get embarrassing.

As it was, we did change and changed for the better as we all saw, and were unlucky not to go on and win.

[cmcd]

Wrong. His starting line up was negative and not set up to win the game. Team showed tremendous character and once the formation changes were made we were by far the better team.
Lennon should back his players.

Some of the comments on here are just unbelievable.One up front wasn't working because our defenders were just punting the ball up in the air .I'm sure NL didn't tell them to do that .They should know themselves that Cummings was never going to win those balls .Also you can't blame NL for the horrendous individual mistakes. The best managers in the World make mistakes and so do the keyboard managers on here

[truehibernian]

Some of the comments on here are just unbelievable.One up front wasn't working because our defenders were just punting the ball up in the air .I'm sure NL didn't tell them to do that .They should know themselves that Cummings was never going to win those balls .Also you can't blame NL for the horrendous individual mistakes. The best managers in the World make mistakes and so do the keyboard managers on here

To be fair I think you are right and wrong. The fact we went (essentially) 4-5-1 meant DM knew we were our to absorb pressure and counter. Very strange having JC up top on his own given the Dons 'weakness' was in central defence. I honestly thought NL would adopt the same tactic/approach as he did in the Hearts replay and press/occupy the opposition defence.

Absolutely agree, nothing legislates for Darren's error first minute......but I think when a team knows that there is only one striker, and our set up is rather narrow, you're inviting pressure regardless.

Play two strikers, or at least play one striker and two wingers - it's Scottish football - occupy and make defenders work.

[Eyrie]

What I'm saying is that we can't say how the game would have stayed had a) Aberdeen not got a massive lift from the immediate goal, and b) Hibs weren't so rocked by conceding an immediate goal.

Imagine McGinn had evaded the initial tackles and we scored right from kick off, do you think the next twenty minutes of the have would have played out the same as they actually did?
Yes, because Aberdeen would still have had most of the possession and our midfield would have still lacked time on the ball to find Cummings.

Would have been some goal by McGinn though, beating five players in the centre circle, then driving at their defence and beating their keeper with a long range shot :greengrin


Because we were two down

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
But if we were only two nil down due to individual errors then there was no need to change the formation because it was clearly working and there was still an hour to play.

Alternatively, the formation wasn't working and that was why there was a need to change it.

I prefer the obvious explanation to inventing excuses based on Lennon blaming the players and not acknowledging that his own actions were an acceptance that his initial tactics were a contributory factor.

[Greenworld]

I prefer the obvious explanation to inventing excuses based on Lennon blaming the players and not acknowledging that his own actions were an acceptance that his initial tactics were a contributory factor


You prefer your version of the event.


Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

Yes, because Aberdeen would still have had most of the possession and our midfield would have still lacked time on the ball to find Cummings.

Would have been some goal by McGinn though, beating five players in the centre circle, then driving at their defence and beating their keeper with a long range shot :greengrin


But if we were only two nil down due to individual errors then there was no need to change the formation because it was clearly working and there was still an hour to play.

Alternatively, the formation wasn't working and that was why there was a need to change it.

I prefer the obvious explanation to inventing excuses based on Lennon blaming the players and not acknowledging that his own actions were an acceptance that his initial tactics were a contributory factor.

How do you know Aberdeen would have had most of the possession?

[Johnny Clash]

He's absolutely right.

I remember Alex Ferguson blasting his Aberdeen players for a lack lustre display after they had beaten Rangers to WIN the cup.

That's the kind of prodessional attitude I want from our manager.

The fans can be gallant losers, if they want. Neil Lennon is a winner.


Spot on, Hibby Radge.

I'm just not sure about the phrase that's getting used: 'gallant losers'. I'm gutted to lose but appreciate everything our club has done.

I think our players will benefit from a Neil Lennon's strong words coz we need to help players become mentally stronger. What Neil then says in the dressing room behind closed doors is another thing. It's clear he has the respect and support of the players which is great!

[Spike Mandela]

In sport there are winners and losers. That IS sport.

You can whinge and moan when you lose or you can show class, shake hands and hold your head high. Sauzee had that class, Hibs class, realised that the game was a war but a 'friendly war', always with respect for the opposition.

Gallant losers ARE losers.........but so are sore losers.

[emerald green]

Here's what Dylan McGeouch had to say:


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/scottish-cup/dylan-mcgeouch-neil-lennon-fury-shows-winning-mentality-1-4427409

[221000]

What I'd like to know about this whole Lennon's tactical error Vs Individual errors discussion is ..... was it a plan for SJM to try a dribble straight from the KO? If so, I assume that was planned and agreed with the management team of NL & GP? If that was the case this is bonkers IMO and where the real mistake was made. In a big game like a Cup semi-final, from the off you want to get territory. Do what we do in 99% of the other games at KO, play a ball long and wide, contest a header, maybe winning a thrown in, in an attacking position on the edge of the opponent's box. Instead we lose the ball (as you might predict with one player trying to dribble the ball through 3 opposition players!), our Midfield look surprised and on the back foot by this (hence my original question about this being a planned move from KO) and then to compound matters DM makes a terrible mistake and we lose a goal.

I think that set the whole tone for the first 20-30 mins of the game and we took this time to get over the shock of losing the goal. Had we NOT lost a goal, or possibly even scored first, who knows how NL's original formation and tactics would have worked out. We may have settled much better, been more confident in possession, Aberdeen players may have got spooked a bit and we may have controlled the game. As opposed to being very much on the back foot.

So, in summary I think it's impossible to state as if it were fact NL "got it wrong". What he did do, was react to the situation as it was - we were 2 down and had to change something, anything, just to get a reaction. And we did. And possibly should have won the game, had it not been for a massive stroke of bad luck with the deflection. I like NL's attitude to losing a game we could, and possibly should, have won. I'm sure privately he's told the players the last 60 mins was a good performance and comeback but he's right - the mistakes were pathetic.

That all said - our comeback and the way we competed with Aberdeen for 60 minutes bodes well for next season I'd say. Onwards and upwards .....

[eastcoasthibby]

To be fair I think you are right and wrong. The fact we went (essentially) 4-5-1 meant DM knew we were our to absorb pressure and counter. Very strange having JC up top on his own given the Dons 'weakness' was in central defence. I honestly thought NL would adopt the same tactic/approach as he did in the Hearts replay and press/occupy the opposition defence.

Absolutely agree, nothing legislates for Darren's error first minute......but I think when a team knows that there is only one striker, and our set up is rather narrow, you're inviting pressure regardless.

Play two strikers, or at least play one striker and two wingers - it's Scottish football - occupy and make defenders work.
Agree with this quite a few things were to blame for the loss, some horrendous, some basic, some about attitude and application and others tactics.
Parts of these all came into play on Saturday and to be fair , they have all been there during the season all too frequently in my eyes, loads of games where to many players haven't shown the right attitude or application, too many mistakes costing us dropped points mostly involving good chances being squandered, tactics have been heavily criticized in a lot of games , some of the basics in terms of crossing, shooting, runs at corners, etc...given all of ths we still got promotion and should be in a cup final ..but we aren't, and can't change what's done. The players that stay are kept for next season will be the ones NL thinks have the right mentality and attitude as well as ability ..so if he doesn't reckon they have enough of the right traits then, right to let them know and then let them go ...I think we will see quite a few changes for next season and the team will be built to play how he wants instead of being forced at times to make do ..!! Look forward to the next 8 weeks or so ..GGTTH

[cleanyman]

It was one of the worst 30 minutes at Hampden we have ever experienced. It was that bad.

In my opinion Lennon got it wrong with the mentality of the the set up from the off. We were too defensive. Cummings up front on his own was never going to work. Yes, he changed it but it was very obvious within the first 5 minutes that we could be on the end of a hammering. Fyvie and Bartley in the same team was madness.

[Ronniekirk]

It was one of the worst 30 minutes at Hampden we have ever experienced. It was that bad.

In my opinion Lennon got it wrong with the mentality of the the set up from the off. We were too defensive. Cummings up front on his own was never going to work. Yes, he changed it but it was very obvious within the first 5 minutes that we could be on the end of a hammering. Fyvie and Bartley in the same team was madness.

The Fyvie Bartley combo in same team has been mentioned frequently as something that should be avoided There has always been a consensus on threads mainly agreeing with this
Has that midfield four played together this season before given Dylan's injuries Mcginns period out and Fyvies injury keeping him out



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hughio]

How any one can suggest that Lennon was wrong to slate his players for the first 30 minutes is ridiculous.
That opening minute by Hibs was the worst and most comical I think I have ever witnessed by any hibs team I have ever seen...and I'm nearly 60!
To then see another comical and amateurish goal conceded by our players through splitting a defensive wall and thus allowing the ball to continue on its merry way and sneak in at the near post is infuriating. Little wonder our manager is frustrated.

Lennon called it right.
He knows, as most of us do, that there remains a soft centre to Hibs, in which teams don't have to actually work hard for their goals, as our lot can (and still do) collectively and individually switch off at crucial moments inexplicably...nothing to do with tactics or set-ups.

:agree:

[wookie70]

Here's what Dylan McGeouch had to say:


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/scottish-cup/dylan-mcgeouch-neil-lennon-fury-shows-winning-mentality-1-4427409

Dylan confirms the formation wasn't working. No surprise there. He manages to do it tactfully though.

[Eyrie]

How do you know Aberdeen would have had most of the possession?

It's based on what I saw for that opening period. We were non-existent, so it's very difficult for me to believe that simply not conceding after 12 seconds would have made any difference. Aberdeen would still have harried us into losing the ball because that was their game plan and it worked.

Had the first 30 been more even, with us able to pass the ball in midfield and feed Cummings and Boyle, then I'd agree that conceding the goal had the impact that some on here are suggesting.

[Hibbyradge]

The formation and tactics did not cause the first goal. That was the fault of Hibs players.

The formation and tactics did not cause the second goal. They didn't cause our defensive wall to disintegrate, and our keeper to lose a goal at his near post. (Anyone notice Griffiths trying a similar thing yesterday? The keeper saved it easily.)

Had those things not happened, Lennon would have had the choice of making the same change at the same time, or keeping things tight for a bit longer. But, because of our players poor play, his hand was forced and he had to chase the game.

[Eyrie]

The formation and tactics did not cause the first goal. That was the fault of Hibs players.

The formation and tactics did not cause the second goal. They didn't cause our defensive wall to disintegrate, and our keeper to lose a goal at his near post. (Anyone notice Griffiths trying a similar thing yesterday? The keeper saved it easily.)

Had those things not happened, Lennon would have had the choice of making the same change at the same time, or keeping things tight for a bit longer. But, because of our players poor play, his hand was forced and he had to chase the game.

If neither of those mistakes had happened, and it had been nil-nil at half time, we'd all have been raging and demanding changes to the line up and tactics to get us back into the tie. Anyone claiming that things were fine, we could sneak one on the break or win it in the last 20 with substitutes would have been laughed at.

It is possible to blame McGregor and McGeouch for the two goals and still hold Lennon accountable for getting his tactics wrong since both are based on the evidence. These are not mutually exclusive positions.

[hibbysam]

Seen a few bits and bobs about who was to blame etc... Yes, NL couldn't do anything about the errors for the goals. What he could do, however, is set us up correctly in the first place.

To play a back four, plus Fyvie and Bartley who are deep lying midfielders, plus McGeough who clearly likes coming deep to collect and drive forward, McGinn very similar and Boyle who was wide right.

This meant there was 50/60 yards between the midfield and JC. This also meant that Aberdeen had free reign to press us 30 yards from our goal, hunting in packs 7 players hunting leaving 3 to mark JC. We had no way out and it was clear it was wrong from the start. There was no balance with no wide left sided player, too many defensive minded players and an isolated and frustrated JC. Their defence may be gash but plant ball after ball onto their head against a 5ft 10 striker and they'll lap it up.

If anyone feels that this setup wasn't a recipe for disaster then their mental. Lennon failing to acknowledge that he made a Noel Hunt of it really disappointed me. Had he said he made an arse of it, couldn't do anything about the errors and the change worked, I'd have had far more respect for him.

[Baker9]

100% right to blame the players. Complete nonsense for both their goals and worse than Primary School defending. When we started to play, we were better than them and deserved to go 2-2.

Lennon had every right to go scatty and his anger will not just be because of the loss of the game. He will have agreed 3 player budgets for the new season - don't make the final, get to the final, win the final.

[ancient hibee]

If neither of those mistakes had happened, and it had been nil-nil at half time, we'd all have been raging and demanding changes to the line up and tactics to get us back into the tie. Anyone claiming that things were fine, we could sneak one on the break or win it in the last 20 with substitutes would have been laughed at.

It is possible to blame McGregor and McGeouch for the two goals and still hold Lennon accountable for getting his tactics wrong since both are based on the evidence. These are not mutually exclusive positions.

Have I got this right?You're saying that at 0-0 at half time we're not in the tie?That's a new one.

The real trouble was that our defenders and central midfield are not used to being pressed when we have the ball.They have spent a season where every time we have the ball they see 10 men hi- tailing it back to their goals.Perhaps Lennon recognised this and decided to pack the midfield and keep the ball close while the game developed.

[angus hibby]

Name another top manager who would've blasted the players like Lennon did? Yes, Fergie did but that was in the 80s. There is no way Guardiola, Pocchetino, Klopp or Rogers would do this, not in public anyway. It isn't the first time Lennon has had a go either!

Like it or not, man management is everything in modern football and I think Lennon isn't great at this side of things. Wouldn't surprise me if the players are sick of being criticised in public cos I'm afraid that's the way modern footballers are.

For those who say he's like this because he's a winner and won't stand for 2nd best, do you think the managers I've listed above aren't winners.....

[Hibbyradge]

Name another top manager who would've blasted the players like Lennon did? Yes, Fergie did but that was in the 80s. There is no way Guardiola, Pocchetino, Klopp or Rogers would do this, not in public anyway.

How do you know that?

Their players have never been as unprofessional as ours were on Saturday.

[Andy74]

Name another top manager who would've blasted the players like Lennon did? Yes, Fergie did but that was in the 80s. There is no way Guardiola, Pocchetino, Klopp or Rogers would do this, not in public anyway. It isn't the first time Lennon has had a go either!

Like it or not, man management is everything in modern football and I think Lennon isn't great at this side of things. Wouldn't surprise me if the players are sick of being criticised in public cos I'm afraid that's the way modern footballers are.

For those who say he's like this because he's a winner and won't stand for 2nd best, do you think the managers I've listed above aren't winners.....

Assume you left Mourinho out on purpose?

[MWHIBBIES]

How do you know that?

Their players have never been as unprofessional as ours were on Saturday.Liverpool lost 6-1 to Stoke under Rodgers. In Steven Gerrards last game.

We had a rough start on Saturday, partly down to Lennons tactics, but the players recovered brilliantly and didn't deserve quite so much grief IMO.

[Hibbyradge]

In fact, if you google, you'll find that all those managers have fiercly criticised their players publicly on occasion.

[Slavoj Zizek]

Cannot be arsed going through SIX [edit now SEVEN] pages of bickering. Some of us work and have a life. I agree with Neil: FACTS[!?] are there are no good girl points awarded to us for being gallant losers. #justsaying

[Super_JMcGinn]

Cannot be arsed going through SIX [edit now SEVEN] pages of bickering. Some of us work and have a life. I agree with Neil: FACTS[!?] are there are no good girl points awarded to us for being gallant losers. #justsaying

We lost because he sent out the wrong team, end off.

[Hibbyradge]

We lost because he sent out the wrong team, end off.

Nothing to do with the individual errors which gave Aberdeen a 2 goal start?

Seriously?

[Slavoj Zizek]

Nothing to do with the individual errors which gave Aberdeen a 2 goal start?

Seriously?

Nah. It's cool bro. A gallant defeat against insurmountable odds. At least we out sang the sheep though. :rolleyes: #Winning?

[hibbysam]

Nothing to do with the individual errors which gave Aberdeen a 2 goal start?

Seriously?

First one terrible, second came as a result of being horribly overrun due to tactics resulted in being out of position and giving away a foul, compounded by two poor mistakes to make it 2-0. Facts are it could've been a lot worse had Aberdeen had a bit of composure. 2-0 massively flattered us on the balance of play for that 30 minutes.

[Hibbyradge]

First one terrible, second came as a result of being horribly overrun due to tactics resulted in being out of position and giving away a foul, compounded by two poor mistakes to make it 2-0. Facts are it could've been a lot worse had Aberdeen had a bit of composure. 2-0 massively flattered us on the balance of play for that 30 minutes.

Aberdeen did not create a single chance apart from what we gifted them.

Soaking up pressure is part of the game.

[hibbysam]

Aberdeen did not create a single chance apart from what we gifted them.

Soaking up pressure is part of the game.

Jonny Hayes missed a great chance just before the sub was made. We barely touched the ball, we weren't 'soaking up pressure' we were being completely and utterly dominated due to our tactics. How many times were Aberdeen in good positions only to be stopped by a poor final ball from wide or Bartley stopping Shinnie in the middle. We were very lucky Aberdeen were wasteful in the first half hour or they could've been out of sight.

[houstonhibbee]

Jonny Hayes missed a great chance just before the sub was made. We barely touched the ball, we weren't 'soaking up pressure' we were being completely and utterly dominated due to our tactics. How many times were Aberdeen in good positions only to be stopped by a poor final ball from wide or Bartley stopping Shinnie in the middle. We were very lucky Aberdeen were wasteful in the first half hour or they could've been out of sight.


Just as well it wasn't Celtic we were playing in the first 30......

[Ray_]

Name another top manager who would've blasted the players like Lennon did? Yes, Fergie did but that was in the 80s. There is no way Guardiola, Pocchetino, Klopp or Rogers would do this, not in public anyway. It isn't the first time Lennon has had a go either!

Like it or not, man management is everything in modern football and I think Lennon isn't great at this side of things. Wouldn't surprise me if the players are sick of being criticised in public cos I'm afraid that's the way modern footballers are.

For those who say he's like this because he's a winner and won't stand for 2nd best, do you think the managers I've listed above aren't winners.....

Well, if that's the case, I would suggest that they then grow a pair, a lot of people paid a lot of money for that shambolic 30 minutes on Saturday.

[Hibbyradge]

Jonny Hayes missed a great chance just before the sub was made. We barely touched the ball, we weren't 'soaking up pressure' we were being completely and utterly dominated due to our tactics. How many times were Aberdeen in good positions only to be stopped by a poor final ball from wide or Bartley stopping Shinnie in the middle. We were very lucky Aberdeen were wasteful in the first half hour or they could've been out of sight.

We were being dominated because, after 12 seconds, Aberdeen saw that our players hadn't turned up. They were hugely encouraged by the early goal. We were stunned by it.

Had we started on the front foot, even by putting the ball into their corner, the whole tone of the game would have developed differently.

[hibbysam]

We were being dominated because, after 12 seconds, Aberdeen saw that our players hadn't turned up. They were hugely encouraged by the early goal. We were stunned by it.

Had we started on the front foot, even by putting the ball into their corner, the whole tone of the game would have developed differently.

If you think the set up was correct with Cummings isolated 50 yards ahead of our midfield then fair play.

[Hibbyradge]

If you think the set up was correct with Cummings isolated 50 yards ahead of our midfield then fair play.

That's not the point.

We were one down without knowing what the set up or tactics were.

We still don't really know how the players were supposed to approach that game because it all went belly up after 12 seconds.

I agree we looked poor until we scored, but it's not as simple as saying Lennon got it wrong.

Giving the 2nd best SPFL side a goal of a start is bound to have a negative effect on the team. Surely you can agree that?

[hibbysam]

That's not the point.

We were one down without knowing what the set up or tactics were.

We still don't really know how the players were supposed to approach that game because it all went belly up after 12 seconds.

I agree we looked poor until we scored, but it's not as simple as saying Lennon got it wrong.

Giving the 2nd best SPFL side a goal of a start is bound to have a negative effect on the team. Surely you can agree that?

I've said the first goal was terrible. And of course it did. But with those players we didn't have a link between Jason and the midfield. With or without the opening goal we wouldn't have had that link, which allowed Aberdeen to press us high as they knew they would win the long ball when we were pressured. If you write our starting XI down on paper,
I challenge you to give me a formation that they fit into, with their styles of play.

[calumhibee1]

I've said the first goal was terrible. And of course it did. But with those players we didn't have a link between Jason and the midfield. With or without the opening goal we wouldn't have had that link, which allowed Aberdeen to press us high as they knew they would win the long ball when we were pressured. If you write our starting XI down on paper,
I challenge you to give me a formation that they fit into, with their styles of play.

This is the point I've made time and time again, but it's always just met with the reply of "what is Lennon supposed to do about an individual mistake gifting a goal after 12 seconds?". We would still have been camped in our own half due to Jason Cummings having nobody within about 40 yards of him until Holt came on whether we went 1-0 down or not. Aberdeen came out with a game plan to pressure us on the ball and win it when we inevitably punted it long to our lone 5'9 striker. Holt came on and gave us something to hit, someone to win it, hold it up and settle us into the game and this is why Lennons tactics were a big part of how the first 30 minutes went and why we improved after it.

[Hibbyradge]

I've said the first goal was terrible. And of course it did. But with those players we didn't have a link between Jason and the midfield. With or without the opening goal we wouldn't have had that link, which allowed Aberdeen to press us high as they knew they would win the long ball when we were pressured. If you write our starting XI down on paper,
I challenge you to give me a formation that they fit into, with their styles of play.

I'm not the manager and I said that we still don't know what the game plan was. It didn't look like it was working, but we were getting steadier before the second calamity.

If it was wrong, we had the option of changing it at any time we felt appropriate.

Because of our own mistakes, however, that option was taken out of our hands and we were forced to gamble.

The number of people on here who wouldnt even have had Holt on the bench shows how little they know about tactics etc.

You blame Lennon, I get that.

[calumhibee1]

We were being dominated because, after 12 seconds, Aberdeen saw that our players hadn't turned up. They were hugely encouraged by the early goal. We were stunned by it.

Had we started on the front foot, even by putting the ball into their corner, the whole tone of the game would have developed differently.

Aberdeen dominated us because we had no out ball to get out of our own half for half an hour until Holt came on. They knew they could hunt us down in our own half, either win it off us and break quickly from the middle of our half or pressure us into punting I, win it and build from there. I don't get where the logic comes from that had we not conceded after 12 seconds that we would have suddenly had an outball in JC upfront on his own, as if the only reason he wasn't able to hold the ball up, bring others into play, provide an outball etc was because we conceded. It's because he's not capable of doing that against such a strong defence, it's not his game. Which is why he should never have started with him upfront on his own.

[wookie70]

I'm not the manager and I said that we still don't know what the game plan was. It didn't look like it was working, but we were getting steadier before the second calamity.

If it was wrong, we had the option of changing it at any time we felt appropriate.

Because of our own mistakes, however, that option was taken out of our hands and we were forced to gamble.

The number of people on here who wouldnt even have had Holt on the bench shows how little they know about tactics etc.

You blame Lennon, I get that.

Dylan McG says the formation wasn't working. He probably has a fair idea given he was running about chasing shadows for 30 minutes.

[Hibbyradge]

Dylan McG says the formation wasn't working. He probably has a fair idea given he was running about chasing shadows for 30 minutes.

I know, but that's not why we were 2-0 down.

Aberdeen had a lot of the ball and when we had it, they pressed us relentlessly, but they created virtually nothing.

Anyway, we're going round in circles so I'll leave it there.

[wookie70]

Here is a quote from SJM - At the first goal the manager told me to be positive from kick-off and take it for a run but Aberdeen did well to win it back.

That alone should have been enough for Neil Lennon to take some of the heat off the players, particularly McGinn.

[ancient hibee]

Here is a quote from SJM - At the first goal the manager told me to be positive from kick-off and take it for a run but Aberdeen did well to win it back.

That alone should have been enough for Neil Lennon to take some of the heat off the players, particularly McGinn.
So he took it for a three yard run and then lost it.We immediately got it back again.It was what happened after that that was crucial.So don't understand your point. I haven't seen Lennon blaming McGinn for doing what he was told.The only people criticising him are on here.

[chrisski33]

Dylan confirms the formation wasn't working. No surprise there. He manages to do it tactfully though.

He also says that Lennon was right to have a blast at the players and he is a winner...

[wookie70]

The argument I am making is whether Lennon should take some responsibility for the first half hour debacle. Losing possession from KO and giving Aberdeen the opportunity to force their way into our half is partly Lennon's fault imo, given what SJM said. Saying he is a winner when he have lost means nothing. When Lennon makes Hibs slightly better than we would expect he can be classed as a winner.

[Lancs Harp]

Not sure why this thread had turned into a tactics/team selection v individual errors battle. They were clearly both key factors in the game early on. Yes our players did make mistakes and we did gift the Dons the first two goals and yes Neil Lennon got the team and tactics initially wrong and acknowledged that by changing it on the half hour mark.

It wasnt one or the other it was both.

[stantonhibby]

Here is a quote from SJM - At the first goal the manager told me to be positive from kick-off and take it for a run but Aberdeen did well to win it back.

That alone should have been enough for Neil Lennon to take some of the heat off the players, particularly McGinn.

Jeezo, you still banging on about this.

[pacoluna]

We lost because he sent out the wrong team, end off.
Aye because your not impartial :rolleyes:

[eastmainsmsh]

I think it was a mistake to leave holt out but we got out of jail just a pity first and last goal marciano is a cracking keeper but he was off his line at free kick and last goal even first

[hibbysam]

Not sure why this thread had turned into a tactics/team selection v individual errors battle. They were clearly both key factors in the game early on. Yes our players did make mistakes and we did gift the Dons the first two goals and yes Neil Lennon got the team and tactics initially wrong and acknowledged that by changing it on the half hour mark.

It wasnt one or the other it was both.

Correct. McGregor got it horribly wrong, McGeough/Marciano got it badly wrong, and Lennon got it badly wrong in the first place.

[Onion]

Lennon is using Celtic's mentality as the benchmark for Hibs. It's what he's most familiar with, and there is no way a Celtic side would have slept its way through the first 30 mins of a cup semifinal the way Hibs did. I can understand his frustration. Hibs might never have the quality of player that Celtic can afford, but Lennon has every right to expect the players to be focused and awake at the start of huge game. There are no excuses.

[calumhibee1]

Not sure why this thread had turned into a tactics/team selection v individual errors battle. They were clearly both key factors in the game early on. Yes our players did make mistakes and we did gift the Dons the first two goals and yes Neil Lennon got the team and tactics initially wrong and acknowledged that by changing it on the half hour mark.

It wasnt one or the other it was both.

Because there's a hell of a lot of people who seem to think only one of the two can be true. Individual errors cost us the goals, absolutely. I've not seen anyone debate that. Lennons tactics had us getting battered for the first 30 minutes. I've seen plenty people debate that. I've even seen some suggest that the players when they were 2-0 down just happened to find something within themselves to start giving 100%, which they mustn't have been doing before hand, and it just happened to coincide with Holt coming on and the formation changing rather than the more logical explanation of Lennons tactics being at fault.

Between McGregor, McGinn, McGeouch and Marciano, none of them have come out and said "this wasn't anything to do with me" which is basically what Lennon done when he came out and said that the "pathetic" "embarrassing" first 30 mins was "nothing to do with tactics" when it was clear as day to fans (all the ones around me at the game seemed to see it wasn't working anyway), players (Dylan has publicly mentioned it), and pundits (nearly all them) that, minus the goals, it was. We were getting battered and couldn't get out our own half due to the way he lined the team up.

But whenever Lennons tactics get brought into question it's met with a staunch defense of him and being told "It's no Lennons fault that the players made individual mistakes, so why is anyone criticizing him?"

As you said, the first 30 mins was a mixture of both the players making individual errors and NL getting it wrong. The issue myself and others have is with Lennon coming out after the game and basically absolving himself of any blame. Some people seem to have the opinion that he was justified in doing that.

[marinello59]

Correct. McGregor got it horribly wrong, McGeough/Marciano got it badly wrong, and Lennon got it badly wrong in the first place.

I don't think he did. If you looked at the teams pre-match their main strength came from the pace of their attacking players and ours was a defence that had been pretty solid all season. Our defenders did get a pretty torrid time after the opening goal but the ball was kept out of the real danger areas, something that is reflected in the lack of clear cut chances Aberdeen actually created until we gifted them a second goal.
The change when it came was spot on but it's remarkable how many people on here are saying wisely after the event that they would have started with Holt when there has been thread after thread on here all season saying he should never started a game. I'm a big fan of his though so I'm glad that he is at least getting the recognition now for what he brings to the team.
We lost through a combination of individual errors, bad luck and because we were playing confident side who were simply better than us.

[pacoluna]

Because there's a hell of a lot of people who seem to think only one of the two can be true. Individual errors cost us the goals, absolutely. I've not seen anyone debate that. Lennons tactics had us getting battered for the first 30 minutes. I've seen plenty people debate that. I've even seen some suggest that the players when they were 2-0 down just happened to find something within themselves to start giving 100%, which they mustn't have been doing before hand, and it just happened to coincide with Holt coming on and the formation changing rather than the more logical explanation of Lennons tactics being at fault.

Between McGregor, McGinn, McGeouch and Marciano, none of them have come out and said "this wasn't anything to do with me" which is basically what Lennon done when he came out and said that the "pathetic" "embarrassing" first 30 mins was "nothing to do with tactics" when it was clear as day to fans (all the ones around me at the game seemed to see it wasn't working anyway), players (Dylan has publicly mentioned it), and pundits (nearly all them) that, minus the goals, it was. We were getting battered and couldn't get out our own half due to the way he lined the team up.

But whenever Lennons tactics get brought into question it's met with a staunch defense of him and being told "It's no Lennons fault that the players made individual mistakes, so why is anyone criticizing him?"



As you said, the first 30 mins was a mixture of both the players making individual errors and NL getting it wrong. The issue myself and others have is with Lennon coming out after the game and basically absolving himself of any blame. Some people seem to have the opinion that he was justified in doing that.

What people are saying is you can't blame tactics for the comical errors that lead to both goals which cost us the game, 0r am I missing something :confused:

Having said that, Cummings can't play up top on his own.

[calumhibee1]

What people are saying is you can't blame tactics for the comical errors that lead to both goals which cost us the game, 0r am I missing something :confused:

Having said that, Cummings can't play up top on his own.

And nobody that I've seen is debating that. However Lennon specifically mentioned the first half hour as being pathetic, not just the goals. He then went on to say "none of that is down to tactics" which, when you take the goals out the equation, the fact we couldn't get our own half for half an hour was a tactics issue.

I agree, Cummings cannot play up top on his own. Can maybe get away with it in this league sometimes, but not against the second best team in Scotland.

[pacoluna]

And nobody that I've seen is debating that. However Lennon specifically mentioned the first half hour as being pathetic, not just the goals. He then went on to say "none of that is down to tactics" which, when you take the goals out the equation, the fact we couldn't get our own half for half an hour was a tactics issue.

I agree, Cummings cannot play up top on his own. Can maybe get away with it in this league sometimes, but not against the second best team in Scotland.
I think there is an argument to suggest that tactically he was trying to utilise our main strength this season.. our defence and use boyles pace as our main attacking threat on the counter attack. The reality is other than the comical goals we conceded Aberdeen didn't threaten us much. Aberdeen switching to a back 3 undoubtedly helped us as well.

[Eyrie]

I don't think he did. If you looked at the teams pre-match their main strength came from the pace of their attacking players and ours was a defence that had been pretty solid all season. Our defenders did get a pretty torrid time after the opening goal but the ball was kept out of the real danger areas, something that is reflected in the lack of clear cut chances Aberdeen actually created until we gifted them a second goal.
The change when it came was spot on but it's remarkable how many people on here are saying wisely after the event that they would have started with Holt when there has been thread after thread on here all season saying he should never started a game. I'm a big fan of his though so I'm glad that he is at least getting the recognition now for what he brings to the team.
We lost through a combination of individual errors, bad luck and because we were playing confident side who were simply better than us.

So if Lennon got his tactics right from the kick off, why didn't Aberdeen do better once he was forced to change them?

It's easier to look at what actually happened and accept that the wrong tactics meant we were struggling and two individual errors cost us two goals.

[Big_Franck]

Not sure why this thread had turned into a tactics/team selection v individual errors battle. They were clearly both key factors in the game early on. Yes our players did make mistakes and we did gift the Dons the first two goals and yes Neil Lennon got the team and tactics initially wrong and acknowledged that by changing it on the half hour mark.

It wasnt one or the other it was both.

Totally agree. As soon as I saw we were lining up with 4 central midfielders and Cummings up front on his own I feared the worst. Unfortunately by the time Lennon recognised his mistake two errors had us two nil down and with a mountain to climb.

[shetlandhibee]

just a side note,, did cummings not play thru the middle on his own against dundee utd?(i know humphreys was p[laying that game and is missing now) i thought that game was one of our best of the season! so to say jason cant play up top on his own is unjustifed IMO, :agree:

[Lancs Harp]

just a side note,, did cummings not play thru the middle on his own against dundee utd?(i know humphreys was p[laying that game and is missing now) i thought that game was one of our best of the season! so to say jason cant play up top on his own is unjustifed IMO, :agree:

Its horses for courses IMO. We normally dominate midfield but early doors against Aberdeen we didnt/couldnt, against anyone in the Championship we can play through midfield, against the Dons we couldnt. We also like to play out from the back but Aberdeen pressed our back four really well and didnt allow them to play out, causing a fair amount of panic and forcing the long ball. A long ball to Jason, who you can probably count on one hand how many aerial battles he wins in the course of a season let alone a game, was never going to work and didnt. Different games present different challenges. Im not an advocate of the big man upfront but on saturday this was the answer to the problem.