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View Full Version : Collins Revolt. The truth according to Michael Stewart..



WellingtonHibby
22-04-2017, 12:08 AM
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/interview-michael-stewart-on-hibs-revolt-against-collins-1-4426318

SRHibs
22-04-2017, 12:33 AM
He's not as smart as he thinks he is. Twat.

cabbageandribs1875
22-04-2017, 12:47 AM
a good man :agree: crackin volley from 20 yards as well

Pete
22-04-2017, 12:55 AM
Prat who likes the sound of his own voice. I'm sure his quest to become an MP was all about serving the people.

If this story was a file and I was a secretary, I'd definitely be looking for the category named "who gives a ****".

Edit: saying that, I did love him as a player for us. Part of a great midfield when he got a game.

RIP Bestie
22-04-2017, 01:10 AM
Prat who likes the sound of his own voice. I'm sure his quest to become an MP was all about serving the people.

If this story was a file and I was a secretary, I'd definitely be looking for the category named "who gives a ****".

Edit: saying that, I did love him as a player for us. Part of a great midfield when he got a game.

Harsh.
A man who knows what he is talking about as far as football is concerned and isn't afraid to say it.
I'd rather listen to him than someone who pays homage to the 'establishment'

CathroMustStay
22-04-2017, 02:43 AM
In my opinion Stewart is almost equally likeable/engaging as he is unlikeable/annoying.

Overall my impression of him is more positive then negative tho, and I'd quite like to see him permanently replace that scrote Neil McCann as the main Scottish football pundit for Sky Sports.

Swedish hibee
22-04-2017, 02:56 AM
Zzzzzzzzzzz Get over it. JC was a great player for Hibs, and he brought us a trophy.
But with the complete lack of respect some folk on here have for our cup winning managers- I expect I'm alone in my views.

Haymaker
22-04-2017, 03:47 AM
10 years after it happened. On the eve of a SC semi final. Boring.

Betty Boop
22-04-2017, 05:25 AM
You couldnae lace John Collins boots Stewart. :bye:

MickeyEdwards
22-04-2017, 05:28 AM
Harsh.
A man who knows what he is talking about as far as football is concerned and isn't afraid to say it.
I'd rather listen to him than someone who pays homage to the 'establishment'

I liked Stewart as a player at Hibs, full of effort, commitment and complimented our midfield at that time and who could ever forget that wonderful volley at the South Stand end against Jimmy Calderwood's Aberdeen. We should have been 4 or 5 up at half time that day!

His punditry is more than decent but since he started spouting the dishonesty & deception and grievoMax of the single trick SNP pressure group, he has lost my respect as a fellow Scot!:agree:

That apart, let's get right behind the team today! This is a great opportunity to get to the SC Final once again!

GGTTH

IGRIGI
22-04-2017, 06:13 AM
He says the story of how the "rebellion" went is ludicrous but then his version seems to go on and confirm that exact "ludicrous" version.

Onceinawhile
22-04-2017, 06:15 AM
Mind that time he got sent off for hearts against Hamilton, tried to kick a bottle in the tunnel, missed and fell over?

That was fun.

Hiber-nation
22-04-2017, 06:16 AM
I'd take his word over Collins any day.

SlickShoes
22-04-2017, 06:17 AM
A negative hibs story when we have a big game, printed in a terrible red top? I'll not bother thanks

lyonhibs
22-04-2017, 06:28 AM
Classic tabloid timing. Who gives a **** what that ginger fanny has to say anyway?

bingo70
22-04-2017, 06:33 AM
Can't open the link on my phone but in general I quite like Michael Stewart, a good pundit imo and seeing as a lot of people seem to be judging him for his politics I'll do the same and say I agree with most of what he says on that front too.

That said I don't really care what happened between him and Collins 10 years ago.

HFCdeb
22-04-2017, 06:44 AM
Can't open the link on my phone but in general I quite like Michael Stewart, a good pundit imo and seeing as a lot of people seem to be judging him for his politics I'll do the same and say I agree with most of what he says on that front too.

That said I don't really care what happened between him and Collins 10 years ago.

You saved me the bother of typing all that.

Golden Bear
22-04-2017, 06:50 AM
A deliberate attempt to stir things up on what is a very important day for us. Absolutely disgraceful.

3pm
22-04-2017, 06:53 AM
A deliberate attempt to stir things up on what is a very important day for us. Absolutely disgraceful.

I'd blame the journalist if anyone.

JimBHibees
22-04-2017, 06:56 AM
Can't open the link on my phone but in general I quite like Michael Stewart, a good pundit imo and seeing as a lot of people seem to be judging him for his politics I'll do the same and say I agree with most of what he says on that front too.

That said I don't really care what happened between him and Collins 10 years ago.

Agree with all that, the best Scottish football pundit by a mile.

--------
22-04-2017, 07:29 AM
A deliberate attempt to stir things up on what is a very important day for us. Absolutely disgraceful.

I don't think so. Do you think it's going to give the present squad ideas? Kick-off's less than four hours away - I don't think the players will be reading the 'Scotsman'. They'll be plenty busy preparing for the match. If an interview like this puts them off their stroke, they don't deserve to be wearing the shirt, I'd say.

And I see nothing disgraceful about it - it reads to me as a very good interview with one of the few genuinely interesting people in Scottish football.

Stewart owes Hibs nothing - he played for us, and as far as I can recollect he did everything that was asked of him, by Mowbray and by Collins alike. He's an intelligent and articulate commentator on the game - far better than McCann in my opinion - and infinitely easier to listen to than Collins himself.

This doesn't come over as ****-stirring - it's an interview with a guy who's been quietly making a name and a place for himself inside and outside football and the Scottish media for quite some time now. Stewart himself is news. All sorts of things have been said about Collins' time at Hibs and the manner of his leaving, and Stewart's name has always been mentioned. Now he's given us his side of it.

What he says here seems to me to be perfectly credible. I don't think Michael Stewart hatched a plot to destroy John Collins as Hibs manager - I think Collins was doing a perfectly good job of that himself.

I didn't realise he's for independence but if he stood for Holyrood anywhere I could vote for him I would. When I consider some of the folks who HAVE been selected by the party to represent us, I wonder why on earth they would have turned him down.

I don't think Sky should have him replace McCann in the event of McCann taking the Dundee job - though I can't for the life of me see any good reason for him to do so.

I mean, a secure, comfortable billet working for one of the world's major media outlets in nice warm studios with no pressure other than to be relevant and reasonably interesting? Davie Provan works for Sky, and he's neither of those things and obnoxious to boot, and how I'd love to see him booted and McCann take his place. Actually, anyone take his place!

And give that up to manage a struggling team in one of Europe's worst football leagues with no job security, very few resources, and every opinionated moron in the stadium telling him how to do his job and where to stick his team selection? No brainer, I'd have thought.

Golden Bear
22-04-2017, 07:42 AM
I don't think so. Do you think it's going to give the present squad ideas? Kick-off's less than four hours away - I don't think the players will be reading the 'Scotsman'. They'll be plenty busy preparing for the match. If an interview like this puts them off their stroke, they don't deserve to be wearing the shirt, I'd say.

And I see nothing disgraceful about it - it reads to me as a very good interview with one of the few genuinely interesting people in Scottish football.

Stewart owes Hibs nothing - he played for us, and as far as I can recollect he did everything that was asked of him, by Mowbray and by Collins alike. He's an intelligent and articulate commentator on the game - far better than McCann in my opinion - and infinitely easier to listen to than Collins himself.

This doesn't come over as ****-stirring - it's an interview with a guy who's been quietly making a name and a place for himself inside and outside football and the Scottish media for quite some time now. Stewart himself is news. All sorts of things have been said about Collins' time at Hibs and the manner of his leaving, and Stewart's name has always been mentioned. Now he's given us his side of it.

What he says here seems to me to be perfectly credible. I don't think Michael Stewart hatched a plot to destroy John Collins as Hibs manager - I think Collins was doing a perfectly good job of that himself.

I didn't realise he's for independence but if he stood for Holyrood anywhere I could vote for him I would. When I consider some of the folks who HAVE been selected by the party to represent us, I wonder why on earth they would have turned him down.

I don't think Sky should have him replace McCann in the event of McCann taking the Dundee job - though I can't for the life of me see any good reason for him to do so.

I mean, a secure, comfortable billet working for one of the world's major media outlets in nice warm studios with no pressure other than to be relevant and reasonably interesting? Davie Provan works for Sky, and he's neither of those things and obnoxious to boot, and how I'd love to see him booted and McCann take his place. Actually, anyone take his place!

And give that up to manage a struggling team in one of Europe's worst football leagues with no job security, very few resources, and every opinionated moron in the stadium telling him how to do his job and where to stick his team selection? No brainer, I'd have thought.

Granted - he's not a bad pundit and he did play a number of good games for Hibs.

However - I had the misfortune to be seated not far away from him at the League Cup Final and his face was tripping him all day and believe me, in a very nasty way. It's understandable he was disappointed that he didn't get on the park but you could almost sense the grievance. Then at night, on the open topped bus, he was exactly the same and it looked as though he almost grudged his teammates their celebration.

So a team player, he most definitely was not. Anyway, I have more pressing things to do, I'm offski to the big game.

:flag:

bigwheel
22-04-2017, 07:43 AM
A deliberate attempt to stir things up on what is a very important day for us. Absolutely disgraceful.

I actually think it's quite an interesting story ...will have no impact on the current team...

I hadn't heard some of the details in this piece - decent read

Drumlanrig
22-04-2017, 08:07 AM
I don't think so. Do you think it's going to give the present squad ideas? Kick-off's less than four hours away - I don't think the players will be reading the 'Scotsman'. They'll be plenty busy preparing for the match. If an interview like this puts them off their stroke, they don't deserve to be wearing the shirt, I'd say.

And I see nothing disgraceful about it - it reads to me as a very good interview with one of the few genuinely interesting people in Scottish football.

Stewart owes Hibs nothing - he played for us, and as far as I can recollect he did everything that was asked of him, by Mowbray and by Collins alike. He's an intelligent and articulate commentator on the game - far better than McCann in my opinion - and infinitely easier to listen to than Collins himself.

This doesn't come over as ****-stirring - it's an interview with a guy who's been quietly making a name and a place for himself inside and outside football and the Scottish media for quite some time now. Stewart himself is news. All sorts of things have been said about Collins' time at Hibs and the manner of his leaving, and Stewart's name has always been mentioned. Now he's given us his side of it.

What he says here seems to me to be perfectly credible. I don't think Michael Stewart hatched a plot to destroy John Collins as Hibs manager - I think Collins was doing a perfectly good job of that himself.

I didn't realise he's for independence but if he stood for Holyrood anywhere I could vote for him I would. When I consider some of the folks who HAVE been selected by the party to represent us, I wonder why on earth they would have turned him down.

I don't think Sky should have him replace McCann in the event of McCann taking the Dundee job - though I can't for the life of me see any good reason for him to do so.

I mean, a secure, comfortable billet working for one of the world's major media outlets in nice warm studios with no pressure other than to be relevant and reasonably interesting? Davie Provan works for Sky, and he's neither of those things and obnoxious to boot, and how I'd love to see him booted and McCann take his place. Actually, anyone take his place!

And give that up to manage a struggling team in one of Europe's worst football leagues with no job security, very few resources, and every opinionated moron in the stadium telling him how to do his job and where to stick his team selection? No brainer, I'd have thought.

Great post Doddle. Agree with all of that!

Ozyhibby
22-04-2017, 08:12 AM
I like Stewart. He was a good player for us and is a good pundit. I'm also hopeful he will be my mp in about 7 weeks time.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

neil7908
22-04-2017, 08:19 AM
Making complaints about Collins to Petrie was poor, but understandable and given how many appear to have participated, there were clearly legitimate grievances.

However, the talk of players wanting Proctor to come in is what really worries me. That implies not only did they want to get rid of the current manager but also appoint the new one, a process they should have no involvement in whatsoever. That strikes me as a case of player power going too far.

--------
22-04-2017, 08:24 AM
Granted - he's not a bad pundit and he did play a number of good games for Hibs.

However - I had the misfortune to be seated not far away from him at the League Cup Final and his face was tripping him all day and believe me, in a very nasty way. It's understandable he was disappointed that he didn't get on the park but you could almost sense the grievance. Then at night, on the open topped bus, he was exactly the same and it looked as though he almost grudged his teammates their celebration.

So a team player, he most definitely was not. Anyway, I have more pressing things to do, I'm offski to the big game.

:flag:


Yes, I saw that too, and wondered at the time what was going on. As he said himself, there are always two sides (at least two sides) to these things. TBH, I have to admit I'm no fan of John Collins - great player, but a disastrous appointment as manager. It wasn't just Stewart - it was the whole squad who were disenchanted with the situation - Jones, Brown, Stewart, the lot.

Enjoy the semi-final. :aok:

overdrive
22-04-2017, 08:29 AM
A deliberate attempt to stir things up on what is a very important day for us. Absolutely disgraceful.

I doubt it. The only people involved who are still here are Petrie and Stevenson. The first has a reduced role at the Club and I wouldn't be surprised if the second was actually in the Fletcher/Hogg camp and Stewart just forgot about him.

I like Stewart (if not his politics). My only criticism is that he seems to be shoving Brown under the bus here. Interesting that players that we assumed got on with Collins, i.e. the French speaking ones were part of the revolt too.

Robinho08
22-04-2017, 08:31 AM
I'd take his word over Collins any day.

I would have to agree.

--------
22-04-2017, 08:44 AM
I doubt it. The only people involved who are still here are Petrie and Stevenson. The first has a reduced role at the Club and I wouldn't be surprised if the second was actually in the Fletcher/Hogg camp and Stewart just forgot about him.

I like Stewart (if not his politics). My only criticism is that he seems to be shoving Brown under the bus here. Interesting that players that we assumed got on with Collins, i.e. the French speaking ones were part of the revolt too.

Collins must have been awfully good at pissing people off to piss off Boozy. :agree:

Hibs1969
22-04-2017, 08:48 AM
Granted - he's not a bad pundit and he did play a number of good games for Hibs.

However - I had the misfortune to be seated not far away from him at the League Cup Final and his face was tripping him all day and believe me, in a very nasty way. It's understandable he was disappointed that he didn't get on the park but you could almost sense the grievance. Then at night, on the open topped bus, he was exactly the same and it looked as though he almost grudged his teammates their celebration.

So a team player, he most definitely was not. Anyway, I have more pressing things to do, I'm offski to the big game.

:flag:

Sorry I think he was treated poorly by Collins that day. Stewart played well for Hibs during that tournament and was part of a cracking midfield. Collins went out of his way to give as many subs as he could a few minutes on the pitch but completely ostracised Stewart who left the club shortly afterwards. He's a decent pundit too who makes Craigen look like the complete buffoon that he is on BT.

Velma Dinkley
22-04-2017, 08:48 AM
Collins was such a disaster as a manager that we won silverware. It seemed to be the older players, who lacked the desire to work hard to achieve success, who were moaning about the manager. Most of them had their greatest achievement while at Hibs with Collins so for any of those players to be moaning about him 10 years later is bizarre.

Big L
22-04-2017, 08:49 AM
I agree with the " throwing Brown under the bus' he also appears to exonerate himself from everything that went on, that's not the message that came out of ER at the time. When Collins took over Hibs played good football, the midfield in particular were asked to do a hell of a lot of work. When they didn't have the ball they hunted in packs to get it back and I thought it was quite exciting. It appears that the complaints came from the mid's in the main. They obviously didn't appreciate Collin's effort to get them fit enough to do the job the way he wanted it done. In any event, the players involved and Petrie should hang their heads in shame, what they did lacked class.IMO.

Deansy
22-04-2017, 08:50 AM
A deliberate attempt to stir things up on what is a very important day for us. Absolutely disgraceful.

Wouldn't worry about it - 10 years ago a lot of people read the 'Scotsman' but these days it's on a par with the 'Daily Rectum' and has the same amount of credibility.

grunt
22-04-2017, 08:51 AM
A negative hibs story when we have a big game, printed in a terrible red top? I'll not bother thanks


Classic tabloid timing. The Scotsman is a red top tabloid? When did that happen?

eezyrider
22-04-2017, 08:55 AM
Yes, I saw that too, and wondered at the time what was going on. As he said himself, there are always two sides (at least two sides) to these things. TBH, I have to admit I'm no fan of John Collins - great player, but a disastrous appointment as manager. It wasn't just Stewart - it was the whole squad who were disenchanted with the situation - Jones, Brown, Stewart, the lot.

Enjoy the semi-final. :aok:

Really? Winning the League Cup counts a disaster?

EZ

corby hibee
22-04-2017, 08:56 AM
It's strange looking back at it how well we was doing under Collins.

Bostonhibby
22-04-2017, 08:58 AM
The meejah and the roasters can't help themselves. Problem is we've sussed them.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

GreenOnions
22-04-2017, 09:10 AM
There is evidence from his time at more clubs than Hibs that John Collins just isn't cut out for being a manager despite having the skill, intelligence and experience to be so. It wouldn't be the first time that an extremely skilled practitioner turns out to be unable to coach or motivate others in that same activity.

Equally - those such as Michael Stewart who refer to themselves as people who "tell it like it is" or who "call a spade a spade" etc display the admirable quality of honesty but may sometimes value that more highly than demonstrating tact, empathy or considering the bigger picture.

All in all I actually see mistakes from all the parties involved in 2007 and consider that, sometimes - when individuals with certain personality types are placed together, everything is bound to explode at some point.

The over-riding disappointment for me was the timing of everything - just after the league cup win and when we were preparing for a SC semi-final. Couldn't it have just waited six weeks until the season ended??

660
22-04-2017, 09:13 AM
Collins was a clown. The revisionist view of his spell is bizarre to be honest.

Smartie
22-04-2017, 09:19 AM
I'm in 2 minds about this.

There's a bit of me that always wanted to hear Stewart's side of he story.

There's another bit of me that admired Stewart's fairly dignified silence over the whole affair, which is now blown.

snooky
22-04-2017, 09:29 AM
I think it's good that he's laid to rest all the speculation about the tryst at Chez Rod.
I'd like to hear John Collins' version to get a balance as there's always two sides to a story.
The only complaint I have with MS's article is the timing of it. Not so good, Mikey.

jacomo
22-04-2017, 09:59 AM
Granted - he's not a bad pundit and he did play a number of good games for Hibs.

However - I had the misfortune to be seated not far away from him at the League Cup Final and his face was tripping him all day and believe me, in a very nasty way. It's understandable he was disappointed that he didn't get on the park but you could almost sense the grievance. Then at night, on the open topped bus, he was exactly the same and it looked as though he almost grudged his teammates their celebration.

So a team player, he most definitely was not. Anyway, I have more pressing things to do, I'm offski to the big game.

:flag:


Agree with all that.

I'm not denying the squad may have had some legitimate grievances (what was Tommy Craig's responsibility though?) but Stewart's demeanour at the LC Final really was a disgrace.

As one of the senior figures in the squad he should have put his personal disappointment to one side and supported his team mates, not moped about like a sullen teenager.

Decent player though and I do quite like his punditry.

alnewhaven
22-04-2017, 10:02 AM
He's been prompted many times to tell his side ( having been presented as one of the main leaders of the revolt). In his favour he's always until now declined to comment. Maybe feels enough time elapsed. Heard similar about JC when at Livi

Iain G
22-04-2017, 10:43 AM
Collins was a clown. The revisionist view of his spell is bizarre to be honest.

No revisionist views here. One of my best days as a Hibs supporter at that cup final and we played some very good football under him.

Some folks have some weird issues with him that clouds what we did achieve under his management.

And Stewart come across as a bit of a cocky arse and Collins wasn't the only manager he fell out with in his limited playing career.

eastmainsmsh
22-04-2017, 10:59 AM
I think jc was good for us shame it couldn't have worked out at time

Lago
22-04-2017, 11:04 AM
Prat who likes the sound of his own voice. I'm sure his quest to become an MP was all about serving the people.

If this story was a file and I was a secretary, I'd definitely be looking for the category named "who gives a ****".

Edit: saying that, I did love him as a player for us. Part of a great midfield when he got a game.
Liked him as a Hibs player & like him as a pundit.

--------
22-04-2017, 12:36 PM
Really? Winning the League Cup counts a disaster?

EZ


In the long term, yes it was. Destabilised the club and left his successor with a terrible mess to sort out. He got on OK while he had TM's players, but his signings in the close season of 2007? O'Brien? Joneleit? Gatheussi? He was given the resources to sign players, and he signed up utter dross. By which time, of course, he's busy losing the dressing-room all but 2 players. I'd call that fairly disastrous.

Colr
22-04-2017, 01:43 PM
No revisionist views here. One of my best days as a Hibs supporter at that cup final and we played some very good football under him.

Some folks have some weird issues with him that clouds what we did achieve under his management.

And Stewart come across as a bit of a cocky arse and Collins wasn't the only manager he fell out with in his limited playing career.

He brought in some modern ideas about fitness and diet that are par for the course now but at the time was too radical for the standard Scottish footballer.

High-On-Hibs
22-04-2017, 01:48 PM
He's by far the best football pundit in Scotland (not that it would be overly difficult). He always gives a fair account of Hibs imo and doesn't dish out cheap shots like many of the other "pundits".

One Day Soon
22-04-2017, 02:09 PM
Utter plum full of his own self regard. Couldn't give a 5hit how upset players are - the manager's in charge, right or wrong. What those players started with their 'revolt' infected our club for years and we paid a heavy price for it.

snooky
22-04-2017, 02:57 PM
The most telling two sentences in the article are these ....

“When John walked into the dressing-room for the first time he would have commanded instant respect because of his achievements as a player. But he lost that almost instantly."

How did he manage to lose it ""almost instantly"? He must have come over as a right roaster to do that.

jacomo
22-04-2017, 03:20 PM
The most telling two sentences in the article are these ....

“When John walked into the dressing-room for the first time he would have commanded instant respect because of his achievements as a player. But he lost that almost instantly."

How did he manage to lose it ""almost instantly"? He must have come over as a right roaster to do that.


I also don't believe it.

Ok, MS might have decided from day one that he didn't like the guy, but plenty of other players improved considerably under JC.

Iain G
22-04-2017, 03:36 PM
I also don't believe it.

Ok, MS might have decided from day one that he didn't like the guy, but plenty of other players improved considerably under JC.

Watched him on the coverage today and he seems like a bit of a gobsh*** who clearly values his own viewpoint, he only looks good on BBC Scotland when you compare him to the other numpties placed around him like Thompson or Willie Miller.

He achieved nothing noteworthy as a player so why he is wheeled out as an expert pundit is beyond me.

emerald green
22-04-2017, 07:46 PM
Was there not some video footage of Stewart booting a water bottle or something in the tunnel at the PBS in a fit of temper, and falling flat on his arse?

Hertz ****.

cabbageandribs1875
22-04-2017, 08:02 PM
I think it's good that he's laid to rest all the speculation about the tryst at Chez Rod.
I'd like to hear John Collins' version to get a balance as there's always two sides to a story.
The only complaint I have with MS's article is the timing of it. Not so good, Mikey.



the scotsman will have decided when it got aired surely ?

cabbageandribs1875
22-04-2017, 08:05 PM
The most telling two sentences in the article are these ....

“When John walked into the dressing-room for the first time he would have commanded instant respect because of his achievements as a player. But he lost that almost instantly."

How did he manage to lose it ""almost instantly"? He must have come over as a right roaster to do that.


my memory is rather hazy nowadays, did JC not flash his chest off telling the players they need to have a six pack like him ? can't remember if that was his first introduction in the players dressing room or another time :hmmm:

J-C
23-04-2017, 07:43 AM
my memory is rather hazy nowadays, did JC not flash his chest off telling the players they need to have a six pack like him ? can't remember if that was his first introduction in the players dressing room or another time :hmmm:

This is what I heard too and then asked who was the fittest guy in the changing room, the players point to Broony and Collins challenges him to a fitness competition to show off.

NORTHERNHIBBY
23-04-2017, 08:12 AM
He is a decent pundit and for an ex sportsman moving into politics I think he is doing that with a fair degree of credibility. The stereotype is give a footballer a crossword to complete and then come back in a fortnight and he is still looking for page 3 unless he is Pat Nevin. But part of that transition has to come from him and he has to stop being a willing participant in rehashing all this. He won't move on from the perhaps unfair tag of the catalyst for trouble who once played for Man U but equally tackled a water bottle and came off second best.

Dashing Bob S
23-04-2017, 08:14 AM
I'd take his word over Collins any day.

Yes.

Winston Ingram
23-04-2017, 10:08 AM
I'd take his word over Collins any day.

This.

21.05.2016
23-04-2017, 10:28 AM
Stewarts a **** stirrer, some may say "aww he's just not afraid to say it how it is etc" but the up shot is that he's an arrogant trouble maker. A nightmare for any manager to have in their dressing room. A huffy, "i know best" kind of guy.

Don't think he's a bad pundit, he actually gives pretty good analysis and insight on games but as a guy I think he's a total cock.

Allant1981
23-04-2017, 10:44 AM
the fxct he hashad issues with almost every manager he has had says it all about stewart, dont think we will ever hear the real truth of what happened with collins and the players

Spike Mandela
23-04-2017, 10:50 AM
Really great interview and an interesting take on events 10 years ago with more detail than I have heard before.

A lot of it rings true and explains the breakdown of relationship between management and team however in fairnes Aiden Smith should give John Collins right to reply and an interesting read that would be.

Eyrie
23-04-2017, 12:01 PM
Stewarts a **** stirrer, some may say "aww he's just not afraid to say it how it is etc" but the up shot is that he's an arrogant trouble maker. A nightmare for any manager to have in their dressing room. A huffy, "i know best" kind of guy.

Don't think he's a bad pundit, he actually gives pretty good analysis and insight on games but as a guy I think he's a total cock.

It's his willingness to speak out as a pundit and politician that confirms that he was willing to start an argument with his managers as a player, regardless of whether he had a point or not.

Entertaining to listen to but not someone I'd want to be working with, let alone if things get tricky.

Mibbes Aye
23-04-2017, 12:29 PM
It's a sad indictment of the coverage in Scotland that Stewart is seen as a good pundit by some.

I've read him described as intelligent and articulate on here. He's not either, really, he's pretty average, it's just that his peers/competition are so woefully poor he looks good by comparison. It's the same with Tom English on the radio, he's pretty awful but because he can do joined-up talking he comes across as an intellectual giant when up against his colleagues.......

I've no idea why we tolerate such poor punditry and analysis. You watch something like the European Football Show on BT Sport and you have interesting guys making telling points and insightful comments and English isn't even their first language!!

blackpoolhibs
23-04-2017, 12:36 PM
It's a sad indictment of the coverage in Scotland that Stewart is seen as a good pundit by some.

I've read him described as intelligent and articulate on here. He's not either, really, he's pretty average, it's just that his peers/competition are so woefully poor he looks good by comparison. It's the same with Tom English on the radio, he's pretty awful but because he can do joined-up talking he comes across as an intellectual giant when up against his colleagues.......

I've no idea why we tolerate such poor punditry and analysis. You watch something like the European Football Show on BT Sport and you have interesting guys making telling points and insightful comments and English isn't even their first language!!

I watch most football programmes that are on, and to be honest i'm not really sure what i'm wanting from these pundits?

Most of us are just ordinary joe's, who can see for ourselves what's happened or happening, and dont really need any in depth analysis.

Most programmes now have ex players in who give their views, and to be perfectly honest they are only telling us what we've already seen, for me its just a bit of bull**** to pad out the show for 30 minutes or an hour.

21.05.2016
23-04-2017, 01:30 PM
It's his willingness to speak out as a pundit and politician that confirms that he was willing to start an argument with his managers as a player, regardless of whether he had a point or not.

Entertaining to listen to but not someone I'd want to be working with, let alone if things get tricky.

100%. likes the sound of his own voice and comes across as someone who thinks he's always right, can't see him taking orders from a manager very well. His huff after the 2007 league cup final says it all, never celebrated with his team mates because he didn't get on. I remeber seeign him on the open top bus that night and whilst the team were jumping about, singing, celbrating with the fans etc, Stewart was sat on his arse, arms folded with a face like thunder.

Stevie Reid
23-04-2017, 01:35 PM
Collins had a 43% win ratio as Hibs manager, and under him we won a national final 5-1, as well as some great wins over Hearts and the Old Firm.

If only every managerial appointment was such a disaster.

Mibbes Aye
23-04-2017, 01:47 PM
Collins had a 43% win ratio as Hibs manager, and under him we won a national final 5-1, as well as some great wins over Hearts and the Old Firm.

If only every managerial appointment was such a disaster.

:agree:

Winning a cup final 5-1 is once in a lifetime stuff.

Having said that the 81/19 game was awesome, as was the way we saw out the win at Ibrox, knocking the ball about like we were a nineties Milan or a seventies Ajax.

Collins' critics accuse him of being arrogant. He made our team play arrogantly and it was a joy to watch.

21.05.2016
23-04-2017, 01:50 PM
Every other player has moved on but Stewart seems to continuously drag this story up, he did another interview about it a few years back. Seems to still have a bee in his bonnet about it and/or a grudge.

We'll likely never 100% know the ins and out of what actually went on and I sure as hell won't be taking Stewarts word for it all. I strongly suspect Stewart was involved though, as in one of the ring leaders. A **** stirrer who would have probably have been in his element through it all. I would hate to share a dressing room with him put it that way.

Shut up and move on Stewart, it was 10 years ago man and its absolutely reeks of bitterness.

Mibbes Aye
23-04-2017, 01:54 PM
I watch most football programmes that are on, and to be honest i'm not really sure what i'm wanting from these pundits?

Most of us are just ordinary joe's, who can see for ourselves what's happened or happening, and dont really need any in depth analysis.

Most programmes now have ex players in who give their views, and to be perfectly honest they are only telling us what we've already seen, for me its just a bit of bull**** to pad out the show for 30 minutes or an hour.

If that were true forums like this wouldn't exist :greengrin

Eyrie
23-04-2017, 06:06 PM
Collins had a 43% win ratio as Hibs manager, and under him we won a national final 5-1, as well as some great wins over Hearts and the Old Firm.

If only every managerial appointment was such a disaster.

You forgot to include his man management skills, eye for a player and success in other managerial roles in that list.

ancient hibee
23-04-2017, 06:14 PM
I watch most football programmes that are on, and to be honest i'm not really sure what i'm wanting from these pundits?

Most of us are just ordinary joe's, who can see for ourselves what's happened or happening, and dont really need any in depth analysis.

Most programmes now have ex players in who give their views, and to be perfectly honest they are only telling us what we've already seen, for me its just a bit of bull**** to pad out the show for 30 minutes or an hour.
A good pundit is clearly one who thinks what I think.A poor pundit clearly doesn't.

MWHIBBIES
23-04-2017, 06:20 PM
It is all history now. Collins was the manager when we won the league cup, a brilliant performance by a very good Hibs team. That is what I like to remember. Stewart shouldn't be bringing all this locker room stuff up 10 years late IMO.

Danderhall Hibs
23-04-2017, 06:50 PM
It is all history now. Collins was the manager when we won the league cup, a brilliant performance by a very good Hibs team. That is what I like to remember. Stewart shouldn't be bringing all this locker room stuff up 10 years late IMO.

He was asked by the Hibby interviewer.

brog
23-04-2017, 09:26 PM
In the long term, yes it was. Destabilised the club and left his successor with a terrible mess to sort out. He got on OK while he had TM's players, but his signings in the close season of 2007? O'Brien? Joneleit? Gatheussi? He was given the resources to sign players, and he signed up utter dross. By which time, of course, he's busy losing the dressing-room all but 2 players. I'd call that fairly disastrous.

I've posted on here before but Tommy Craig was responsible for the signings of both AOB & Brian Kerr. That took up most of our budget but Collins' only fault was in trusting Craig's judgement. Re Joneleit & Gattuessi, the former was a 19yo German under age international who we took a chance on. The latter was 25, had played over 100 games in the French top league & was a Cameroonian international. If we were being linked with players like that now most posters on here would be extremely happy. I'm not defending Collins I think both Stewart & Collins love themselves far too much but IMO he receives some unfair flak re his signings.

IncredibleHibee
23-04-2017, 09:39 PM
Maybe just me but I have to chuckle at this as both Collins and Stewart seem quite similar to me in that if they were chocolate they would eat themselves.

As many have said we wont ever know the full, unbiased version but it a bit boring (and perhaps bordering pathetic now) that Mr Stewart brings it up every few years. He should conduct himself with a bit more dignity. Is it not enough for him that he knows what happened (from his perspective at least)?

Stevie Reid
23-04-2017, 09:47 PM
You forgot to include his man management skills, eye for a player and success in other managerial roles in that list.

What bearing does his success, or lack of it, in other roles have on his successes at Hibs?

NAE NOOKIE
23-04-2017, 09:59 PM
This incident was 10 years ago and as far as I'm concerned nobody came out of it looking good, neither Collins, nor the board, nor the players ...... I don't know about anybody else but I'm pretty bored hearing about it these days .... it deserves a place in any history written about the club, but that's about it.

IMO Collins was to man management what Rod Petrie is to free spending and that coupled to too many folk in our dressing room forgetting they were Indians and not chiefs was a recipe for disaster.

Time the whole sorry situation was put to bed.

Dashing Bob S
23-04-2017, 10:11 PM
You forgot to include his man management skills, eye for a player and success in other managerial roles in that list.

See also; loyalty, staying the course an handling adversity.

I like Collins, but he was a poor manager at Hibs. He inherited Mowbray's team, then made an arse of building his own. He then ran away. He didn't have what it takes to be a manager. This is bourne out but his subsequent average record in the game.

matty_f
23-04-2017, 10:20 PM
I like Stewart. Good pundit imho, and I don't doubt his version of events here. Surprised at the reaction, to be honest.

Eyrie
23-04-2017, 10:39 PM
What bearing does his success, or lack of it, in other roles have on his successes at Hibs?

I defer to DBS on that question.


See also; loyalty, staying the course an handling adversity.

I like Collins, but he was a poor manager at Hibs. He inherited Mowbray's team, then made an arse of building his own. He then ran away. He didn't have what it takes to be a manager. This is bourne out but his subsequent average record in the game.

Stevie Reid
24-04-2017, 12:40 PM
I defer to DBS on that question.

Feel free, but he doesn't supply an answer to the question that I asked - which was, why should his performances as a manager after leaving Hibs, affect the judgement on his performance here?

- League Cup win
- 43% win ratio
- Scottish Cup semi final (albeit one we should have won, and had two attempts at)

Decent results in our biggest games

- vs Hearts P 5 W 2 L 3
- vs Celtic P 4 W 2 D 1 L 1
- vs Rangers P 4 W 1 D 1 L 2

Hibs have won ten major honours in our 142 year history. I often enjoy DBS's posts, but his description of Collins - a man who managed us to one of them, in considerable style and by a huge scoreline - as a "poor manager for Hibs" is utterly inane. Even more so when you consider that recent incumbents include the likes of Duffy, Calderwood and Butcher.

There seems no doubt that he was disliked intensely by the players, but given the great days and nights he delivered for me as a Hibs supporter, I couldn't care less. I'd also question just how poor the training could have been when the players were getting the results they were (and had won the League Cup Final 5-1) prior to the revolt.

Eyrie
24-04-2017, 01:02 PM
Feel free, but he doesn't supply an answer to the question that I asked - which was, why should his performances as a manager after leaving Hibs, affect the judgement on his performance here?

- League Cup win
- 43% win ratio
- Scottish Cup semi final (albeit one we should have won, and had two attempts at)

Decent results in our biggest games

- vs Hearts P 5 W 2 L 3
- vs Celtic P 4 W 2 D 1 L 1
- vs Rangers P 4 W 1 D 1 L 2

Hibs have won ten major honours in our 142 year history. I often enjoy DBS's posts, but his description of Collins - a man who managed us to one of them, in considerable style and by a huge scoreline - as a "poor manager for Hibs" is utterly inane. Even more so when you consider that recent incumbents include the likes of Duffy, Calderwood and Butcher.

There seems no doubt that he was disliked intensely by the players, but given the great days and nights he delivered for me as a Hibs supporter, I couldn't care less. I'd also question just how poor the training could have been when the players were getting the results they were (and had won the League Cup Final 5-1) prior to the revolt.
The implication of your original post (#69 above) is that Collins was so successful here that it was a "disaster" that he moved on. His subsequent career proves that his departure was no loss to us in the long run, hence why it is relevant.

The counter narrative is that he inherited a good team from Mowbray and was able to do well with them initially, before dissension set in which had to have been a factor in losing the semi to Dunfermline. Winning a cup doesn't define his managerial spell, or else Alex Miller's time would be more fondly remembered.

Stevie Reid
24-04-2017, 01:06 PM
The implication of your original post (#69 above) is that Collins was so successful here that it was a "disaster" that he moved on. His subsequent career proves that his departure was no loss to us in the long run, hence why it is relevant.

The counter narrative is that he inherited a good team from Mowbray and was able to do well with them initially, before dissension set in which had to have been a factor in losing the semi to Dunfermline. Winning a cup doesn't define his managerial spell, or else Alex Miller's time would be more fondly remembered.

The highlighted bit is ridiculously wide of the mark - hence, no relevance with regards to his subsequent performance as a manager elsewhere.

Of course winning a cup defines his managerial spell, it's insane to suggest otherwise - especially when he was here for 14 months (FWIW I believe that AM should be slightly more fondly remembered for his trophy win, but he was here for a decade, so it's a bit different).

Eyrie
24-04-2017, 01:13 PM
Winning the Cup would define Collins' managerial spell if it had happened towards the end of his reign with a team that he had built like Stubbs, not at the start with someone else's players. It's the same with Miller - the years after 27-10-91 took the gloss off his achievement because we didn't build on it with another cup win, even although he'd built the 1991 team.

I'll always be grateful to Collins for the 2007 trophy, but can't overlook the rest of his time in charge.

Stevie Reid
24-04-2017, 01:24 PM
Winning the Cup would define Collins' managerial spell if it had happened towards the end of his reign with a team that he had built like Stubbs, not at the start with someone else's players. It's the same with Miller - the years after 27-10-91 took the gloss off his achievement because we didn't build on it with another cup win, even although he'd built the 1991 team.

I'll always be grateful to Collins for the 2007 trophy, but can't overlook the rest of his time in charge.

I wasn't overlooking anything, I provided a summary of his time in charge, the irrefutable things that happened during his time here. My point all along is that no Hibs manager who wins a trophy (especially in such style, and given there is only a handful of Hibs managers to ever win major honours) deserves their appointment being described as "disastrous" - especially when augmented by the other factors I mentioned.

I know his faults - he didn't appear to have recruited especially well, and we had tailed off badly after an excellent start in his first full season - and I was neither pleased nor heartbroken when he left. But if you give him loads of flack for the behind the scenes stuff, yet no credit at all for the many excellent results we had and that cup win, you're not really playing fair.

The Modfather
24-04-2017, 02:19 PM
The implication of your original post (#69 above) is that Collins was so successful here that it was a "disaster" that he moved on. His subsequent career proves that his departure was no loss to us in the long run, hence why it is relevant.

The counter narrative is that he inherited a good team from Mowbray and was able to do well with them initially, before dissension set in which had to have been a factor in losing the semi to Dunfermline. Winning a cup doesn't define his managerial spell, or else Alex Miller's time would be more fondly remembered.

If we're talking about his subsequent career being no loss to us in the long term, is it not also fair to add in the context that just a few years later Petrie had to publically acknowledge that there was a rotten culture at the club that needed changed. Is that not also relevant to the player revolt and what Collins had to fight against in his time as manager?

leithsansiro
24-04-2017, 02:45 PM
For me, the whole Collins/Stewart saga can be summed up by a few bullet points

- Mikey Stewart always thinks he is right
- Mikey Stewart was a decent footballer but there was clearly a reason he never became a long term mainstay of any team. Lack of talent wasn't the reason
- John Collins always thinks he is right
- John Collins was a great footballer, but struggled to see that those playing for him might not have the same dedication or approach as him
- John Collins was foolish and naive to accept Tommy Craig's word and advice. That embarrassing press conference is evidence of this

On a separate note, I've said it before. I went to school with Stewart. A more obvious case of Billy Bigbaws you'll never see.

brog
24-04-2017, 05:05 PM
For me, the whole Collins/Stewart saga can be summed up by a few bullet points

- Mikey Stewart always thinks he is right
- Mikey Stewart was a decent footballer but there was clearly a reason he never became a long term mainstay of any team. Lack of talent wasn't the reason
- John Collins always thinks he is right
- John Collins was a great footballer, but struggled to see that those playing for him might not have the same dedication or approach as him
- John Collins was foolish and naive to accept Tommy Craig's word and advice. That embarrassing press conference is evidence of this

On a separate note, I've said it before. I went to school with Stewart. A more obvious case of Billy Bigbaws you'll never see.

A very good summation!

jacomo
24-04-2017, 05:53 PM
It's strange looking back at it how well we was doing under Collins.


Oh for the days when finishing outside the top 6 was a crisis and we often played other teams off the park.

jacomo
24-04-2017, 06:03 PM
In the long term, yes it was. Destabilised the club and left his successor with a terrible mess to sort out. He got on OK while he had TM's players, but his signings in the close season of 2007? O'Brien? Joneleit? Gatheussi? He was given the resources to sign players, and he signed up utter dross. By which time, of course, he's busy losing the dressing-room all but 2 players. I'd call that fairly disastrous.


I'd call this total nonsense.

That next manager was Mixu, who was hardly dealt the worst possible hand. But unfortunately he made his own mistakes.

Iain G
24-04-2017, 06:18 PM
A very good summation!

Oh and Collins was manager when we won the league cup and you can see what it means to him.

Stewart was a sulking brat that day who didn't give a toss.

Slavoj Zizek
24-04-2017, 06:21 PM
For me, the whole Collins/Stewart saga can be summed up by a few bullet points

- Mikey Stewart always thinks he is right
- Mikey Stewart was a decent footballer but there was clearly a reason he never became a long term mainstay of any team. Lack of talent wasn't the reason
- John Collins always thinks he is right
- John Collins was a great footballer, but struggled to see that those playing for him might not have the same dedication or approach as him
- John Collins was foolish and naive to accept Tommy Craig's word and advice. That embarrassing press conference is evidence of this

On a separate note, I've said it before. I went to school with Stewart. A more obvious case of Billy Bigbaws you'll never see.

This post should be stickied. Mikey Stewart, great pundit, great hibbie, don't make me puke. He is a ****.

emerald green
24-04-2017, 06:23 PM
This post should be stickied. Mikey Stewart, great pundit, great hibbie, don't make me puke. He is a ****.

Just the bit in bold. No he aint. He's a Hearts ****. End of message. :aok:

Slavoj Zizek
24-04-2017, 06:25 PM
Just the bit in bold. No he aint. He's a Hearts ****. End of message. :aok:

Well said mate. :aok: I was being "diplomatic" about things.

emerald green
24-04-2017, 06:29 PM
Well said mate. :aok: I was being "diplomatic" about things.

Cheers SZ! :aok:

snooky
24-04-2017, 06:29 PM
I like Stewart. Good pundit imho, and I don't doubt his version of events here. Surprised at the reaction, to be honest.

Kinda agree, Matty. At one time it appeared everybody wanted to know what happened during the Rodgate affair, some saying that they couldn't wait for "Player X's Memoirs" to come out.
Now Mikey comes out and tells us, (well at least as he saw it) and suddenly the table gets couped. :confused:
Go figure. :dunno:


This post should be stickied. Mikey Stewart, great pundit, great hibbie, don't make me puke. He is a ****.

Jambo through and through - but so what.
Captained Hibs on at least one occasion.
Showed the club more respect than some of 'our own'.

JimBHibees
24-04-2017, 06:45 PM
I like Stewart. Good pundit imho, and I don't doubt his version of events here. Surprised at the reaction, to be honest.

Agree until other people involved in the situation indicate he is wrong. Sounds like a shambles to be honest.

Slavoj Zizek
24-04-2017, 06:51 PM
Kinda agree, Matty. At one time it appeared everybody wanted to know what happened during the Rodgate affair, some saying that they couldn't wait for "Player X's Memoirs" to come out.
Now Mikey comes out and tells us, (well at least as he saw it) and suddenly the table gets couped. :confused:
Go figure. :dunno:



Jambo through and through - but so what.
Captained Hibs on at least one occasion.
Showed the club more respect than some of 'our own'.

Mikey is a dick mate, pure and simple. What has he achieved releative to Mr. Collins. Hee Haw. End Thread.

jacomo
24-04-2017, 07:18 PM
I like Stewart. Good pundit imho, and I don't doubt his version of events here. Surprised at the reaction, to be honest.


My issue is his claim that Collins lost the dressing room almost immediately. That is palpable nonsense.

Some of the best Hibs performances I have ever seen came under his watch. And not all in his first month either. If the training was that bad how did the team play so well?

I accept that his tenure had its problems too, but MS is letting his personal opinion cloud his judgement IMO.

truehibernian
24-04-2017, 08:22 PM
Interesting he describes Boozy as mild mannered - Boozy and Ivan had a fist fight over nowt at Edinburgh Academy over car spaces :greengrin

Collins had good ideas, sadly the Scottish mentality will never ever buy into it. Alcohol and nights out will forever stifle Scotland being a nation of top footballers. Collins knows that, others choose to ignore it and think it's fine for players to 'celebrate' through bevvy.

I like JC, yes he's arrogant, but a guy who has played in Scotland, England, France and World Cups is entitled to be - none of the players he managed (Scottish) have ever qualified for a major tourney - he wanted the best, sadly players thought they knew better - evidence shows they didn't.

Golden Bear
24-04-2017, 08:23 PM
My issue is his claim that Collins lost the dressing room almost immediately. That is palpable nonsense.

Some of the best Hibs performances I have ever seen came under his watch. And not all in his first month either. If the training was that bad how did the team play so well?

I accept that his tenure had its problems too, but MS is letting his personal opinion cloud his judgement IMO.

JC is someone I'd trust and Stewart is someone I certainly wouldn't trust! The League Cup win under JC's tenure was one of the finest performances I've ever seen from a Hibs team and it was disappointing that everything seemed to go so quickly downhill thereafter. I'll never forget John wandering about the pitch in an apparent daze at the final whistle, it was obvious the victory meant a great deal to him in a week when he'd lost his father.

Stevie Reid
24-04-2017, 08:49 PM
What is possibly most fascinating is (if we believe MS's version) the fact that the players seem to have complained about training for quite a bit, and then after being met with a brick wall time after time, stopped performing for Collins.

Then, a couple of times after really poor performances, JC has accused the players of downing tools in an attempt to get him emptied. That is a hugely serious claim for a manager to make, but is it not pretty accurate in that the players' response to that was to go to the chairman and try and get him sacked?! Is it maybe understandable if Collins was a bit paranoid at the time, given what had happened with KT, Keith Jackson, and the newspaper column?

Collins clearly needed to be better at man management, but if what's reported is true, I can understand him stonewalling the players complaints given the performance levels he was often getting from them. I presume that he must've been implementing ideas that had worked for him as a player at the very top level, and from some very good managers.

So what if training is boring? It's only a couple of hours a day, and if it's gaining you regular wins, a cup winners medal and adulation from the Hibs support, surely it's worth it? It's interesting that many of that cup winning team would never go onto win anything else in their career, whilst Scott Brown (who if MS is to be believed, was most vocal about wanting JC sacked) didn't let his performance levels drop after the transfer scenario and the revolt, and has gone on to have the career he has.

I don't doubt that Collins has been arrogant as **** with the players, and there's no doubt that he could have dealt with the dressing room better - there also seems little doubt that stubbornness on both his and the players' side, has excarbated things.

However, for me, the players are much more at fault here - they were reaping the rewards of his methods and agitated things to such an extent that they blew an amazing chance of a cup double. I still get angry thinking of that no mark Simon Brown, remembered only for numerous high profile mistakes, and his "prison camp" remarks when privileged enough to be taken on a warm weather training break before a cup final.

It's also interesting that in the following season before JC left, we not only had a great start that saw us beat Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and be top of the league after our first nine games, but also there were three occasions at ER where we were two goals down and still took something from the game (Gretna won 4-2, Aberdeen drew 3-3, and DU drew 2-2). Which implies that the players were very much playing for him at that stage, long after the revolt and several players had left.

Ultimately we'll never know what truly happened, and no one comes out of it particularly well. Once again though, always grateful to JC - still one of the top five best players I've seen play for us (and he was only 21 when he left) and gave us that win at Hampden. Will always be a legend for me.

pacorosssco
25-04-2017, 12:18 AM
What is possibly most fascinating is (if we believe MS's version) the fact that the players seem to have complained about training for quite a bit, and then after being met with a brick wall time after time, stopped performing for Collins.

Then, a couple of times after really poor performances, JC has accused the players of downing tools in an attempt to get him emptied. That is a hugely serious claim for a manager to make, but is it not pretty accurate in that the players' response to that was to go to the chairman and try and get him sacked?! Is it maybe understandable if Collins was a bit paranoid at the time, given what had happened with KT, Keith Jackson, and the newspaper column?

Collins clearly needed to be better at man management, but if what's reported is true, I can understand him stonewalling the players complaints given the performance levels he was often getting from them. I presume that he must've been implementing ideas that had worked for him as a player at the very top level, and from some very good managers.

So what if training is boring? It's only a couple of hours a day, and if it's gaining you regular wins, a cup winners medal and adulation from the Hibs support, surely it's worth it? It's interesting that many of that cup winning team would never go onto win anything else in their career, whilst Scott Brown (who if MS is to be believed, was most vocal about wanting JC sacked) didn't let his performance levels drop after the transfer scenario and the revolt, and has gone on to have the career he has.

I don't doubt that Collins has been arrogant as **** with the players, and there's no doubt that he could have dealt with the dressing room better - there also seems little doubt that stubbornness on both his and the players' side, has excarbated things.

However, for me, the players are much more at fault here - they were reaping the rewards of his methods and agitated things to such an extent that they blew an amazing chance of a cup double. I still get angry thinking of that no mark Simon Brown, remembered only for numerous high profile mistakes, and his "prison camp" remarks when privileged enough to be taken on a warm weather training break before a cup final.

It's also interesting that in the following season before JC left, we not only had a great start that saw us beat Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and be top of the league after our first nine games, but also there were three occasions at ER where we were two goals down and still took something from the game (Gretna won 4-2, Aberdeen drew 3-3, and DU drew 2-2). Which implies that the players were very much playing for him at that stage, long after the revolt and several players had left.

Ultimately we'll never know what truly happened, and no one comes out of it particularly well. Once again though, always grateful to JC - still one of the top five best players I've seen play for us (and he was only 21 when he left) and gave us that win at Hampden. Will always be a legend for me.

Collins player I loved and million for Hibs his cup win players deserve more credit for that. Tommy craig been showed up danny lennon and that interview. We will never know but petrie collins could have put to bed then and since. Both never have. I think that has been ignored.

McD
25-04-2017, 06:39 AM
Interesting he describes Boozy as mild mannered - Boozy and Ivan had a fist fight over nowt at Edinburgh Academy over car spaces :greengrin

Collins had good ideas, sadly the Scottish mentality will never ever buy into it. Alcohol and nights out will forever stifle Scotland being a nation of top footballers. Collins knows that, others choose to ignore it and think it's fine for players to 'celebrate' through bevvy.

I like JC, yes he's arrogant, but a guy who has played in Scotland, England, France and World Cups is entitled to be - none of the players he managed (Scottish) have ever qualified for a major tourney - he wanted the best, sadly players thought they knew better - evidence shows they didn't.


Ive occasionally wondered if Collins would get better results working with younger players, possibly early to late teens, where he would have a better chance of creating the best habits rather than trying to break bad ones.

J-C
25-04-2017, 06:42 AM
Ive occasionally wondered if Collins would get better results working with younger players, possibly early to late teens, where he would have a better chance of creating the best habits rather than trying to break bad ones.

IIRC Stevenson was one of the younger lads who loved Collins as the manager, if you look at Lewis now he's a model pro with excellent work ethics and you never hear a bad word said about him outwith football.

tamig
25-04-2017, 07:13 AM
I've posted on here before but Tommy Craig was responsible for the signings of both AOB & Brian Kerr. That took up most of our budget but Collins' only fault was in trusting Craig's judgement. Re Joneleit & Gattuessi, the former was a 19yo German under age international who we took a chance on. The latter was 25, had played over 100 games in the French top league & was a Cameroonian international. If we were being linked with players like that now most posters on here would be extremely happy. I'm not defending Collins I think both Stewart & Collins love themselves far too much but IMO he receives some unfair flak re his signings.
They did a feature on St Mirren a few weeks ago where Steven Thompson gave a good insight into Tommy Craig's ways. It was identical to the stuff outlined in Stewart's interview re the monotiny of training etc. TC no doubt had a huge influence on how things ended up.

brog
25-04-2017, 11:27 AM
They did a feature on St Mirren a few weeks ago where Steven Thompson gave a good insight into Tommy Craig's ways. It was identical to the stuff outlined in Stewart's interview re the monotiny of training etc. TC no doubt had a huge influence on how things ended up.

It could have been worse! We made an offer to another ex Newcastle player at the same time but because of our outlay on AOB & BK we were well apart on money. That player did nothing subsequently to make me think that TC really could spot a player.