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Winston Ingram
19-04-2017, 11:35 AM
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/dundee/kevin-thomson-hibs-should-have-done-a-dundee-with-butcher-1-4422738

1van Sprou7e
19-04-2017, 11:43 AM
He's probably not wrong, it's actually quite impressive how terrible Butcher was as our manager

Col2
19-04-2017, 11:48 AM
I see Malpas has rejoined ICT.

Oh well that's them 100% down then.

CallumLaidlaw
19-04-2017, 11:48 AM
He's probably not wrong, it's actually quite impressive how terrible Butcher was as our manager

Especially after looking quite decent in the first 2 months. Anyway, whats done is done, we're going back up with record crowds, with a Scottish cup in the bag and with good people in charge of the club. We may well have continued trudging along in the bottom 6 with crowds around 8k if we'd stayed up. Who knows.

snooky
19-04-2017, 11:52 AM
"I was a bit disappointed when he told the media I’d said I couldn’t cope with playing for a top-flight team. I never said that. We had agreed what we were going to say – that I’d had enough of travelling and I was getting frustrated with my body and I was potentially thinking about retiring. But I could certainly cope with playing Premier League football. I played it all my life."

I love that bit the best. Deja vu all over again. :whistle:

Roxyhibee
19-04-2017, 12:05 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.

SouthMoroccoStu
19-04-2017, 12:12 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.

This!

Radium
19-04-2017, 12:20 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.

LD was already coming to us and I don't think that staying up would have made her change her mind. She sacked butcher after listening to his plans ...

we are the Scottish Cup Holders and that takes away a lot of the 'ifs' from the past couple of seasons


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IAmLee
19-04-2017, 12:21 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.

We'd have Leeann, she agreed to come before we were relegated, I'd like to think she would have sacked butcher but who knows!!

FilipinoHibs
19-04-2017, 12:24 PM
Sometimes you have to go through pain to live life again. EC.

ACLeith
19-04-2017, 12:25 PM
We'd have Leeann, she agreed to come before we were relegated, I'd like to think she would have sacked butcher but who knows!!

Her track record indicates she would have seen through the charlatan. She sacked him after one meeting when he returned from holiday IIRC.

--------
19-04-2017, 12:47 PM
Her track record indicates she would have seen through the charlatan. She sacked him after one meeting when he returned from holiday IIRC.


I may be doing him an injustice, but I find it very difficult to envisage Butcher being happy working for Leeann - or taking instructions from any woman, frankly.

I think the fact that he took his holidays when he did tells the whole story, frankly. The guy was an unreconstructed Neanderthal who never had his heart anywhere near the job.

Fuzzywuzzy
19-04-2017, 03:26 PM
I see Malpas has rejoined ICT.

Oh well that's them 100% down then.

Reckon that's a precursor to clean getting his jotters and the 'dream team' coming back.😂

21.05.2016
19-04-2017, 03:57 PM
Pretty much sums up what we already knew about Butcher and his horrible wee sidekick Malpass. Destroyed any morale, any confidence and split a dressing room when we were fighting for our lives. He should have been pulling everybody together, rally the players and creating - as Thompson put in his article - a team of warriors who were gonna fight and give absolutely everything to keep us up.

Butchers a clown, he knows **** all about how to manage a team. How he still get a punditry gig is beyond me, he's a dinosaur. The last time I watched a game where he was co-commentating, you could here the lead commenter getting increasingly embarrassed byt some of the things Butcher was coming out with. I guess it just shows you how much you can live off simply being an ex-hun in this country.

21.05.2016
19-04-2017, 04:05 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.

I agree. Relegation will never be reflected on as a good thing, our club should have never been able to fall that far, the rot should have been stopped years before but it sparked the re-birth of our club. For too long we were just getting by, accepting team after team of mediocre players and accepting mediocracy in general. There is a new standard set at the club now and the whole club has been totally transformed.

Perhaps we had to experience that rock bottom to spark the vital changes but I hope to god we never ever end up in the same state ever again, massive lessons need to have learned from this.

Hibby70
19-04-2017, 04:08 PM
Bizarrely due to what has happened to us since he left i don't hate him as much as i probably should.

I have a much bigger dislike of Colin Calderwood for example.

SirDavidsNapper
19-04-2017, 04:11 PM
Bizarrely due to what has happened to us since he left i don't hate him as much as i probably should.

I have a much bigger dislike of Colin Calderwood for example.

Same. I don't hate Butcher. He was just a clueless idiot. Calderwood is a hatred. The packet of sweets chat still boils my blood.

21.05.2016
19-04-2017, 04:18 PM
Bizarrely due to what has happened to us since he left i don't hate him as much as i probably should.

I have a much bigger dislike of Colin Calderwood for example.

Colin Calderwood was another absolute clown who couldn't give a **** about hibs or the job he was doing. One of the most gutless, uninspiring, disinterested managers that i've ever seen manage hibs. One of the worst managerial appointments in all my time watching hibs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13032028.___If_someone_offers_you_two_bags_of_swee ts__you_look_in_both_before_you_choose___/


^ Sums him up in one article

Robinho08
19-04-2017, 04:22 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.

Agreed, Hibs and Petrie needed a wake up call. If we'd survived relegation, it probably would have delayed the inevitable anyway and no guarantee of winning the Scottish cup either.

Smartie
19-04-2017, 04:24 PM
Same. I don't hate Butcher. He was just a clueless idiot. Calderwood is a hatred. The packet of sweets chat still boils my blood.

Yep, me too.

When Calderwood came in we still had something to work with after Yogi.

Calderwood was an absolutely abysmal appointment and the steepest part of our decline came when he was in charge.

We were in such a state when he took over it made Fenlon's job close to impossible. Fenlon did really well to patch the team up and achieve what he did with so many short-term signings but when we lost Doyle and Griffiths all our weaknesses came to the fore.

We've done the argument to death on here about whether we would have been relegated under Fenlon, but I honestly think we might have - not that that was entirely his fault. He had Petrie at his worst as chairman and put together the most imbalanced, impotent (from an attacking point of view) squad that we've ever had. Any manager would have struggled to get them to score goals. Ok, we might have scraped enough points to stay up because of our mean defence, but I'm not convinced, and I think Pat knew that himself.

Yes, Butcher got it badly wrong. But I don't think it's as easy as KT makes out - when you get into these downward spirals they are horrible to get out of. Whenever you lose the first goal, you're as good as beaten (maybe the point Butcher was trying to make with his infamous quote). We needed to strengthen that January. There was no place for "one in one out" talk. We needed goals, and we needed them badly, and we have paid a very heavy price indeed.


It's easier to blether in the papers though than stick your neck on the block and actually try to do the job. It will be interesting to see how McCann gets on.

Nakedmanoncrack
19-04-2017, 05:47 PM
Yep, me too.

When Calderwood came in we still had something to work with after Yogi.

Calderwood was an absolutely abysmal appointment and the steepest part of our decline came when he was in charge.

We were in such a state when he took over it made Fenlon's job close to impossible. Fenlon did really well to patch the team up and achieve what he did with so many short-term signings but when we lost Doyle and Griffiths all our weaknesses came to the fore.

We've done the argument to death on here about whether we would have been relegated under Fenlon, but I honestly think we might have - not that that was entirely his fault. He had Petrie at his worst as chairman and put together the most imbalanced, impotent (from an attacking point of view) squad that we've ever had. Any manager would have struggled to get them to score goals. Ok, we might have scraped enough points to stay up because of our mean defence, but I'm not convinced, and I think Pat knew that himself.

Yes, Butcher got it badly wrong. But I don't think it's as easy as KT makes out - when you get into these downward spirals they are horrible to get out of. Whenever you lose the first goal, you're as good as beaten (maybe the point Butcher was trying to make with his infamous quote). We needed to strengthen that January. There was no place for "one in one out" talk. We needed goals, and we needed them badly, and we have paid a very heavy price indeed.


It's easier to blether in the papers though than stick your neck on the block and actually try to do the job. It will be interesting to see how McCann gets on.

The blethering in the papers is something Kevin Thomson has always been very good at, he's never struck me as particularly brave enough to be a manager himself though.

Hibernia&Alba
19-04-2017, 05:59 PM
Same. I don't hate Butcher. He was just a clueless idiot. Calderwood is a hatred. The packet of sweets chat still boils my blood.

Hate is a very strong word. I try to reserve that for the worst type of miscreants in society, not terrible football managers. I don't hate the man, but I have zero respect for him: a total incompetent and a fraud as a manager. I shall never forgive him for the way he contrived our collapse and relegation. Having no manager couldn't have been any worse. He's a walloper.

Lago
19-04-2017, 06:11 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.
I like to think of it as a cleansing and re birth of a great club.

Iggy Pope
19-04-2017, 06:12 PM
Hate is a very strong word. I try to reserve that for the worst type of miscreants in society, not terrible football managers. I don't hate the man, but I have zero respect for him: a total incompetent and a fraud as a manager. I shall never forgive him for the way he contrived our collapse and relegation. Having no manager couldn't have been any worse. He's a walloper.

????? Zero respect, total incompetent, fraud, contrived the collapse of our dear club because he is, indeed, a walloper. I hate him and you should too. He's a miscreant of my society and I helped pay the *******s wages.

Jim44
19-04-2017, 06:17 PM
I vividly rememember, when Butcher came to ER, we were encouraged to look at a YouTube video of him giving a presentation down south to a middle management group. His talk was about managing, motivational techniques and man-management. At the time, although some folk seems to be impressed with this performance, I thought his presentation was useless and cringeworthy. His subsequent demise and our lacklustre relegation was inevitable once the charlatan was found out and, in retrospect, his removal was the best thing to happen to us in years.

The Spaceman
19-04-2017, 06:19 PM
I've actually really enjoyed the past 3 seasons - incredible lows and even more incredible highs. The fact we are about to smash our season ticket record shows the rebirth of the club and the fact that many fans feel the same way as me. Whilst I obviously never want us to be in the Championship ever again, it will be funny going back to the same dull one horse race league...

Hibernia&Alba
19-04-2017, 06:19 PM
????? Zero respect, total incompetent, fraud, contrived the collapse of our dear club because he is, indeed, a walloper. I hate him and you should too. He's a miscreant of my society and I helped pay the *******s wages.

:greengrin

Fair point; I'm too soft for my own good.

Viva_Palmeiras
19-04-2017, 06:40 PM
Colin Calderwood was another absolute clown who couldn't give a **** about hibs or the job he was doing. One of the most gutless, uninspiring, disinterested managers that i've ever seen manage hibs. One of the worst managerial appointments in all my time watching hibs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13032028.___If_someone_offers_you_two_bags_of_swee ts__you_look_in_both_before_you_choose___/


^ Sums him up in one article

The more you look into the circumstances surrounding his appointment the more bizarre it appears and then you throw in Adams - forced succession planning only to free him to return to our rivals - Bizarre.

We have no divine right to inspired/enlightened managers but boy have we gone through more than our fair share of crap. I doubt whether LD would have been able to remedy the situation Calderwood got himself into but then again she probably wouldn't have appointed him and when the shenanigans started he would have been out the door.
The trick is to maintain the run of good luck managers that have come our way with LD...

AgentDaleCooper
19-04-2017, 08:49 PM
butcher is an absolute ball bag, i wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire - same goes for calderwood - but in the end, butcher's appointment may have been for the best. we bottomed out big time under him, but the upswing has been proportionately massive. If relegation was the price for being where we are now, I'm very happy with how things turned out :aok:

Enough said
19-04-2017, 09:06 PM
When we went down it woke our cub up again let's takes positives from negatives . Onwards and upwards ... here we go 2 in a row

cmcd
19-04-2017, 09:12 PM
The blethering in the papers is something Kevin Thomson has always been very good at, he's never struck me as particularly brave enough to be a manager himself though.

I would not be surprised if KT returns to Easter Rd as manager one day .As for not being brave enough .Take a look at you're self

hibbysam
19-04-2017, 09:36 PM
I would not be surprised if KT returns to Easter Rd as manager one day .As for not being brave enough .Take a look at you're self

Exactly, the lad could and probably should still be playing but has taken it upon himself to go after a coaching role, starting his own academy to develop our young kids. He has since applied to become number 2 at one of the biggest clubs in the country. Kevin Thomson will one day become a manager, however he is going about his business outstandingly well.

Viva_Palmeiras
19-04-2017, 10:09 PM
Don't have an axe to grind with KT. Playing for nowt and trying to do the best by the club in his second spell - there was too much to carry - I think arguably went some way towards mending some of the bridges he burned when he left.

It's interesting to read the comments and speculation around his managerial potential (or not).

His moves and timings pretty much suited him - to Rangers - agreeing release from Dundee must have miffed Hartley to the. See him back at Hibs. Setting up his own academy after a quick parting of ways with (Bonnyrigg?)

He has the grounding and exeprience to make a great manager I do wonder if he does become one whether he'd be like Mark McGhee was when he jumped from one club to another chasing with ruthless ambition but leaving a bit of a trail in his wake... With the crap he spouted day's after getting the Dons gig about the managerial post at Celt the boy appears to have a lack of tact around biting the hand that feeds you

Time will tell what's in store for KT.

ekhibee
20-04-2017, 12:24 AM
Don't have an axe to grind with KT. Playing for nowt and trying to do the best by the club in his second spell - there was too much to carry - I think arguably went some way towards mending some of the bridges he burned when he left.

It's interesting to read the comments and speculation around his managerial potential (or not).

His moves and timings pretty much suited him - to Rangers - agreeing release from Dundee must have miffed Hartley to the. See him back at Hibs. Setting up his own academy after a quick parting of ways with (Bonnyrigg?)

He has the grounding and exeprience to make a great manager I do wonder if he does become one whether he'd be like Mark McGhee was when he jumped from one club to another chasing with ruthless ambition but leaving a bit of a trail in his wake... With the crap he spouted day's after getting the Dons gig about the managerial post at Celt the boy appears to have a lack of tact around biting the hand that feeds you

Time will tell what's in store for KT.
Good post. :top marks

California-Hibs
20-04-2017, 03:56 AM
Especially after looking quite decent in the first 2 months. Anyway, whats done is done, we're going back up with record crowds, with a Scottish cup in the bag and with good people in charge of the club. We may well have continued trudging along in the bottom 6 with crowds around 8k if we'd stayed up. Who knows.

Something I've been thinking about the last few days. It's interesting how it's all worked out. Who knows what state we would of been in had we stayed up? If buts and maybes but potentially no Leeann - Stubbs - Scottish Cup - Lennon - 14-17k home attendances etc.

Or perhaps all that would of happened regardless? Or some of it?

Aaaah the beauty of football ☺️

ACLeith
20-04-2017, 04:56 AM
Something I've been thinking about the last few days. It's interesting how it's all worked out. Who knows what state we would of been in had we stayed up? If buts and maybes but potentially no Leeann - Stubbs - Scottish Cup - Lennon - 14-17k home attendances etc.

Or perhaps all that would of happened regardless? Or some of it?

Aaaah the beauty of football ☺️

Leeann joined us before relegation so would almost certainly have got rid of him but as for the rest - maybes aye maybes naw

BOB MARLEYS DUG
20-04-2017, 07:56 AM
Butcher and Malpuss were ****s to KT

Borderhibbie76
20-04-2017, 08:08 AM
I've actually really enjoyed the past 3 seasons - incredible lows and even more incredible highs. The fact we are about to smash our season ticket record shows the rebirth of the club and the fact that many fans feel the same way as me. Whilst I obviously never want us to be in the Championship ever again, it will be funny going back to the same dull one horse race league...
Agreed who'd have thought 3 years ago.on Hamilton Sunday we would come back as follows;

Within 3 years - (at the time it felt like we would be down for decades tbh)

As Scottish Cup HOLDERS

With Neil Lennon following on from Stubbsy as our managers

Averaging crowds of over 15k in a championship minus huns and diet huns

Record ST sales on the horizon

It has been a total rebirth of our club...the Yams must be spewing. Not many teams who go down can come back in such a stronger position

And who knows...2 in a row anyone??

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Nakedmanoncrack
20-04-2017, 02:08 PM
I would not be surprised if KT returns to Easter Rd as manager one day .As for not being brave enough .Take a look at you're self

Good luck Kevin.

hibsbollah
20-04-2017, 02:25 PM
He spoiled it a bit at the end by saying 'I genuinely like him as a man and think he's a good manager'... What?! That contradicts the rest of the article and contradicts the evidence of our own eyes. TB's a dick and a gash manager and he always will be.

barcahibs
20-04-2017, 02:29 PM
He spoiled it a bit at the end by saying 'I genuinely like him as a man and think he's a good manager'... What?! That contradicts the rest of the article and contradicts the evidence of our own eyes. TB's a dick and a gash manager and he always will be.

The article isn't very well written, i think he's talking about Paul Hartley by that point.

1van Sprou7e
20-04-2017, 02:37 PM
The article isn't very well written, i think he's talking about Paul Hartley by that point.

Yeah I think so too.

also highly doubt KT has much respect for Butcher either as a person or as a manager

overdrive
20-04-2017, 02:43 PM
Yeah I think so too.

also highly doubt KT has much respect for Butcher either as a person or as a manager

They definitely looked awkward being in each other's company when they were on as pundits on a game on BT Sport a couple of months ago.

ben johnson
20-04-2017, 02:56 PM
[QUOTE=AgentDaleCooper;5015915]butcher is an absolute ball bag, i wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire - same goes for calderwood -

What if they weren't on fire ?

cmcd
20-04-2017, 05:16 PM
Good luck Kevin.

Is that supposed to be funny ??

Nakedmanoncrack
20-04-2017, 06:54 PM
Is that supposed to be funny ??

Not really, why get so confrontational over a minor disagreement over the possible managerial merits of someone who has never been a manager? Maybe he will turn out to be the next Alex Ferguson, you clearly think so.

hibsbollah
20-04-2017, 08:07 PM
The article isn't very well written, i think he's talking about Paul Hartley by that point.

That would make more sense. Very misleading though.

blackpoolhibs
20-04-2017, 08:18 PM
Calderclown and Butcher were useless, the man who appointed him however should have been fired from a cannon out over the forth with a few large bricks tied to his waist for giving us these bums.

Peevemor
20-04-2017, 09:08 PM
Calderclown and Butcher were useless, the man who appointed him however should have been fired from a cannon out over the forth with a few large bricks tied to his waist for giving us these bums.
There was more chance of that happening if he hadn't appointed them.

cmcd
20-04-2017, 10:05 PM
Not really, why get so confrontational over a minor disagreement over the possible managerial merits of someone who has never been a manager? Maybe he will turn out to be the next Alex Ferguson, you clearly think so.
Not confrontational I asked a simple question and who mentioned Alex Ferguson . I said I would not be surprised to see KT as a manager .End off

mca
20-04-2017, 10:40 PM
Although Hamilton Sunday was horrendous, even if we'd stayed up I wouldn't want that now.

Still with Butcher as manager (or maybe worse, Malpas as a replacement). Still with Rod at the helm. Sitting 8th in the league.

No Scottish Cup glory, no Leanne, no Hendo, no McGinn, no Lennon, etc.

No thanks. Happy just the way it all worked out.


LD.. :not worth

pacorosssco
21-04-2017, 01:22 AM
I would not be surprised if KT returns to Easter Rd as manager one day .As for not being brave enough .Take a look at you're self

Doubt well see KT in management just my opinion. Maybe we will.

pacorosssco
21-04-2017, 01:27 AM
Calderclown and Butcher were useless, the man who appointed him however should have been fired from a cannon out over the forth with a few large bricks tied to his waist for giving us these bums.

Yes Petrie run Hibs to ground. If not Butcher then next idiot was going to finish one way route to div1. Leanne Dempster appointment aside. If she had not come in would rod have emptied TB and MM?

Is It On....
21-04-2017, 06:03 AM
Colin Calderwood was another absolute clown who couldn't give a **** about hibs or the job he was doing. One of the most gutless, uninspiring, disinterested managers that i've ever seen manage hibs. One of the worst managerial appointments in all my time watching hibs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13032028.___If_someone_offers_you_two_bags_of_swee ts__you_look_in_both_before_you_choose___/


^ Sums him up in one article

That is appalling for a manager to behave like that. Mr Adams has done OK since he left.

Smartie
21-04-2017, 07:52 AM
Colin Calderwood was another absolute clown who couldn't give a **** about hibs or the job he was doing. One of the most gutless, uninspiring, disinterested managers that i've ever seen manage hibs. One of the worst managerial appointments in all my time watching hibs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13032028.___If_someone_offers_you_two_bags_of_swee ts__you_look_in_both_before_you_choose___/


^ Sums him up in one article

I just read that article.

How Calderwood survived that I will never know, how Petrie survived letting him survive it I'll never know.

It reaffirms for me once more, I'll never be as angry at Butcher as I'll be at Calderwood or Petrie for where we ended up.

That's a disgraceful article.