The Universe

[lord bunberry]

I know there's quite a few posters on here who are interested in matters of the cosmos, so I thought I'd start a thread to keep us all together.
Im currently watching a documentary on dark matter, a subject that I find fascinating. The latest theory seems to be that it is comprised from a particle called wimps, meaning weakly interacting massive particles. Given that the universe is made up of 84% dark matter, this reasearch is extremely important. I've been trying to understand all this sort of stuff by reading books on quantum physics and theoretical physics, but I have to say I'm no further forward on the subject.
What excites me the most is that the endless scope for speculation is absolutely absolute.
I don't mean this thread to be just about dark matter when there's so many other exiting things happening right now like the possibility of a 9th planet and the discovery of a possible earth like planet orbiting our nearest star.

[lord bunberry]

:tumble::tumble::tumble::tumble:
Maybe not then :greengrin
come on there's been stuff on the news about Enceladus tonight. Someone must be as excited about that as me.

[Jack]

There was a programme on BBC 4 the other night about travelling to Mars and all the pros and cons. That was interesting.

[lord bunberry]

There was a programme on BBC 4 the other night about travelling to Mars and all the pros and cons. That was interesting.
BBC 4 is great for that sort of thing. I think we'll go to Mars in the next 10 years and find evidence of past life there and possibly even living things now.

[Hibrandenburg]

Neil deGrasse Tyson's Cosmos is a good watch too.

[The_Exile]

Looks like Enceladus is likely to have microbial life under the ice sheet as there's now confident heat vents exist in the ocean beneath, this is what's causing the eruptions from the surface. Whilst not exactly ET as we would expect it, it just shows how incredible common "life" might be on other worlds. My Physics teacher always told us we'd find life or evidence of it on another world within our lifetimes and looks like he was right! Although he also said Betelgeuse would go supernova in our lifetime too (highly unlikely but it could happen tomorrow theoretically!). 1 out of 2 ain't bad I suppose.

[lord bunberry]

Looks like Enceladus is likely to have microbial life under the ice sheet as there's now confident heat vents exist in the ocean beneath, this is what's causing the eruptions from the surface. Whilst not exactly ET as we would expect it, it just shows how incredible common "life" might be on other worlds. My Physics teacher always told us we'd find life or evidence of it on another world within our lifetimes and looks like he was right! Although he also said Betelgeuse would go supernova in our lifetime too (highly unlikely but it could happen tomorrow theoretically!). 1 out of 2 ain't bad I suppose.
Apparently if it does go supernova it will be enough to make it light at night time.

[Hibrandenburg]

Apparently if it does go supernova it will be enough to make it light at night time.

It could have gone supernova about 600 years ago.

[lord bunberry]

It could have gone supernova about 600 years ago.
I think it's 430 light years away.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think it's 430 light years away.

642.5. Start stocking up on sunblock.

[lord bunberry]

642.5. Start stocking up on sunblock.

I googled it after my post and every site says something different, but seeing your figure has got a .5 in it I'm going with it :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I googled it after my post and every site says something different, but seeing your figure has got a .5 in it I'm going with it :greengrin

:greengrin

[Hibby Bairn]

So how did the universe form?

[lord bunberry]

So how did the universe form?
From the Big Bang. Everything came into being from an explosion that has been expanding for 14m years. There's no real quick way to describe it to be honest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/ocr_gateway/energy_resources/big_bangrev1.shtml

[Hibby Bairn]

From the Big Bang. Everything came into being from an explosion that has been expanding for 14m years. There's no real quick way to describe it to be honest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/ocr_gateway/energy_resources/big_bangrev1.shtml

Where did the matter come from to cause the Big Bang?

[Hibrandenburg]

Started as one single atom that contained all the matter that we now have in the universe. If you've got Netflix I suggest you watch the 13 episode series "Cosmos". I watched it recently and found it fascinating, I'm now watching it again with my 8 year old and he loves it.

[Hibby Bairn]

You know the next question 😎

Where did that first 'single atom' come from?

[lord bunberry]

You know the next question 😎

Where did that first 'single atom' come from?

It came from nothing.

[Hibby Bairn]

It came from nothing.

😳 What? Just appeared one day?

[Hibee87]

You know the next question 😎

Where did that first 'single atom' come from?I had a nearly identical convo with a believer in God that I worked with. She said everything must come from somthing, so my belif in the big bang et all she genuinely finds laughable. How can something become from nothing was her argument.
When I said ok then, who create God? her answer was god is all powerful and created himself :confused: I can see her logic.

[Jay]

Im going to see professor Brian Cox in a couple of months. I love all this stuff, struggle to understand a lot of it though. The recent stargazing live was interesting.

[lord bunberry]

😳 What? Just appeared one day?

It is proposed that it came from quantum fluctuations

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/a-mathematical-proof-that-the-universe-could-have-formed-spontaneously-from-nothing-ed7ed0f304a3

[sleeping giant]

Started as one single atom that contained all the matter that we now have in the universe. If you've got Netflix I suggest you watch the 13 episode series "Cosmos". I watched it recently and found it fascinating, I'm now watching it again with my 8 year old and he loves it.

Can an atom have another atom inside it ?

[lord bunberry]

Can an atom have another atom inside it ?

It's not an atom as such. The Big Bang was referred to as the primordial or primeval atom.

[Jack]

It's complicated.

Maybe a tale from folk lore could explain it better.

[sleeping giant]

It's not an atom as such. The Big Bang was referred to as the primordial or primeval atom.

I just don't buy it :greengrin:


I have been trying to reply to this for ages but keep deleting my post as it doesn't even make sense to me :-)

If we are expanding , we will eventually contract back to where it all began .
Will it happen again and again and again ?

[TRC]

I just don't buy it :greengrin:


I have been trying to reply to this for ages but keep deleting my post as it doesn't even make sense to me :-)

If we are expanding , we will eventually contract back to where it all began .
Will it happen again and again and again ?

Maybe it already has.
Love reading the dark matter stuff. Can't remember where now but they are coming to the end of a 5 year study. which they say has new findings but they want to correlate all the data before realising. sure it's this year they have said the study is coming out.

[Jack]

I just don't buy it :greengrin:


I have been trying to reply to this for ages but keep deleting my post as it doesn't even make sense to me :-)

If we are expanding , we will eventually contract back to where it all began .
Will it happen again and again and again ?

We're OK for next season and probably the one after.

[lord bunberry]

I just don't buy it :greengrin:


I have been trying to reply to this for ages but keep deleting my post as it doesn't even make sense to me :-)

If we are expanding , we will eventually contract back to where it all began .
Will it happen again and again and again ?
There is a theory known as the Big Crunch that says the universe will get to a certain point then briefly stall before contracting back to a singularly again. This is the theory that has always made most sense to me as it allows for a new universe to be born again and again. Apparently this isn't what will happen though, it's thought that the universe will just continue to expand and eventually it will run out of fuel to make more stars and the current stars will eventually die leaving only black holes, this is known as the big freeze.
Thats my understanding of what's going to happen, but obviously I have a limited understanding of these things:greengrin

[Jack]

Is the universe expanding in 2D, 3D or even 4 or beyond D?






Is D something beyond our limited dimensional thinking?




Are we a universe inside another universe inside a universe like a Russian doll?

Or is our universe a speck of dust floating in the air of a planet in a solar system in a universe.

Or ...

[lord bunberry]

Is the universe expanding in 2D, 3D or even 4 or beyond D?






Is D something beyond our limited dimensional thinking?




Are we a universe inside another universe inside a universe like a Russian doll?

Or is our universe a speck of dust floating in the air of a planet in a solar system in a universe.

Or ...
The thing I love most about this subject is that the possibilities are almost endless.

[northstandhibby]

There is a theory known as the Big Crunch that says the universe will get to a certain point then briefly stall before contracting back to a singularly again. This is the theory that has always made most sense to me as it allows for a new universe to be born again and again. Apparently this isn't what will happen though, it's thought that the universe will just continue to expand and eventually it will run out of fuel to make more stars and the current stars will eventually die leaving only black holes, this is known as the big freeze.
Thats my understanding of what's going to happen, but obviously I have a limited understanding of these things:greengrin

Its a spectacularly mind-blowing subject.

I don't see how the universe could contract back as that would require pressure from a force? Wouldn't it be more of a case instead simply becoming a dormant universe. A bit like releasing a gaseous substance in a concealed box where it expands but cannot escape and constantly remains within the sealed box?

glory glory

[lord bunberry]

Its a spectacularly mind-blowing subject.

I don't see how the universe could contract back as that would require pressure from a force? Wouldn't it be more of a case instead simply becoming a dormant universe. A bit like releasing a gaseous substance in a concealed box where it expands but cannot escape and constantly remains within the sealed box?

glory glory
The force would be gravity. At the moment expansion and gravity are at a level where the universe expands at the current rate. If gravity was to be stronger we would have the universe contracting into a Big Crunch. If expansion was to be stronger we would have what known as a big rip, that would cause everything to come apart until eventually time and space would rip apart.

[northstandhibby]

The force would be gravity. At the moment expansion and gravity are at a level where the universe expands at the current rate. If gravity was to be stronger we would have the universe contracting into a Big Crunch. If expansion was to be stronger we would have what known as a big rip, that would cause everything to come apart until eventually time and space would rip apart.

Would you mind explaining the differences between expansion and gravity?

Cheers

glory glory

[lord bunberry]

Would you mind explaining the differences between expansion and gravity?

Cheers

glory glory
Gravity is a force that pulls things together, the more mass something has, the more gravitational attraction it will have. The sun has the most gravity in our solar system and that's why all the planets orbit it. It's only centrifugal force that stops us falling into it. Expansion is what causes the universe to expand and is basically the opposite of gravity. Nothing can travel quicker than the speed of light, but expansion causes space to expand quicker than the speed of light.
If the universe had more gravity than it currently has then it would have contracted into a Big Crunch before stars and planets had time to form. The same is true for expansion. The balance between the 2 forces are what gives us the current universe we have.

[northstandhibby]

Gravity is a force that pulls things together, the more mass something has, the more gravitational attraction it will have. The sun has the most gravity in our solar system and that's why all the planets orbit it. It's only centrifugal force that stops us falling into it. Expansion is what causes the universe to expand and is basically the opposite of gravity. Nothing can travel quicker than the speed of light, but expansion causes space to expand quicker than the speed of light.
If the universe had more gravity than it currently has then it would have contracted into a Big Crunch before stars and planets had time to form. The same is true for expansion. The balance between the 2 forces are what gives us the current universe we have.

That would roughly transpire as an elastic band type expansion then surely? Expanding outward until it snaps back due to alleged magnetic pull.

I would suggest expansion is not elasticated but would expand simply until there was no force left to propel and would simply remain dormant until the next big bang.

As you rightly say LB its all up for debate.

glory glory

[Hibrandenburg]

Its a spectacularly mind-blowing subject.

I don't see how the universe could contract back as that would require pressure from a force? Wouldn't it be more of a case instead simply becoming a dormant universe. A bit like releasing a gaseous substance in a concealed box where it expands but cannot escape and constantly remains within the sealed box?

glory glory

I suspect it will eventually merge with other universes who are all vying for space inside one huge universe that in itself is just one of many huge universes inside a massive universe.................... See my GIF below for example.

[lord bunberry]

That would roughly transpire as an elastic band type expansion then surely? Expanding outward until it snaps back due to alleged magnetic pull.

I would suggest expansion is not elasticated but would expand simply until there was no force left to propel and would simply remain dormant until the next big bang.

As you rightly say LB its all up for debate.

glory glory
Here's a pretty good article on the subject
http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20150602-how-will-the-universe-end

[sleeping giant]

Would black holes still exist in a frozen universe ?

After all the matter had eventually been sucked into a black hole then all the black holes have merged in to each other(if that happens) what will become of said black hole?

Is the universe a black hole?

I'm sure there is a black hole at the centre of every Galaxy .

Mon the holes

[lord bunberry]

Would black holes still exist in a frozen universe ?

After all the matter had eventually been sucked into a black hole then all the black holes have merged in to each other(if that happens) what will become of said black hole?

Is the universe a black hole?

I'm sure there is a black hole at the centre of every Galaxy .

Mon the holes
All matter won't eventually be sucked into black holes. The supermassive black hole at the centre of galaxies is the reason that galaxies exist. All the stars orbit around it, this would continue to be the case when all the stars run out of fuel and die. Smaller black holes are stars that have gone supernova. If you were orbiting a massive star and it went supernova you would continue to orbit the black hole
(if you survive the explosion) as its mass wouldn't change. Black holes will eventually decay away after trillions of years. Some people believe that new universes are born from black holes crushing matter down to a singularly, then exploding in a Big Bang. This in theory could happen with our own universe, creating a new universe, destroying ours from within. There's a name for this theory, but it was a while ago I read it and I've forgotten what it was called.

[sleeping giant]

All matter won't eventually be sucked into black holes. The supermassive black hole at the centre of galaxies is the reason that galaxies exist. All the stars orbit around it, this would continue to be the case when all the stars run out of fuel and die. Smaller black holes are stars that have gone supernova. If you were orbiting a massive star and it went supernova you would continue to orbit the black hole
(if you survive the explosion) as its mass wouldn't change. Black holes will eventually decay away after trillions of years. Some people believe that new universes are born from black holes crushing matter down to a singularly, then exploding in a Big Bang. This in theory could happen with our own universe, creating a new universe, destroying ours from within. There's a name for this theory, but it was a while ago I read it and I've forgotten what it was called.

That theory works for me .
Still doesn't answer where it all began though:greengrin

If that had happened , it would explain where the matter came from for our measurable Big Bang.

[sleeping giant]

If you could look at a 3D black hole , would it be orb shaped ?

What would we see in a black hole if light could escape?

[northstandhibby]

I suspect it will eventually merge with other universes who are all vying for space inside one huge universe that in itself is just one of many huge universes inside a massive universe.................... See my GIF below for example.

Cracking eggs into a frying pan around the same time would be a very simplistic yet true analogy of that idea. The outermost edges of the albumen will converge and mix together however the vast majority of the main body of the egg is far denser and remains relatively still. Much like the outermost parts of the atmospheres will merge together but with a thin sparse density by that time and shouldn't be able to spring back in in on itself unless of course a competing denser force emerges from outwith to invade our universes galaxies atmospheres etc upsetting our stability. However ours seems to have been around for billions of our years so far.

Its a theory

:aok:

glory glory

[lord bunberry]

If you could look at a 3D black hole , would it be orb shaped ?

What would we see in a black hole if light could escape?

I've always imagined them to be cone shaped with the matter gradually being crushed smaller and smaller. I suppose there's no way of knowing what we'd find inside a black hole as the laws of physics as we know them break down. I've watched a few documentaries on it and they're always quite interesting.

[northstandhibby]

I've always imagined them to be cone shaped with the matter gradually being crushed smaller and smaller. I suppose there's no way of knowing what we'd find inside a black hole as the laws of physics as we know them break down. I've watched a few documentaries on it and they're always quite interesting.

Interesting choice of words as digestion consists of breaking down matter until its pureed/liquidised with the main mechanisms for human digestion process being enzymes. The Universe eating itself - I've heard worse theories.

glory glory

[lord bunberry]

Interesting choice of words as digestion consists of breaking down matter until its pureed/liquidised with the main mechanisms for human digestion process being enzymes. The Universe eating itself - I've heard worse theories.

glory glory
Another way of looking at it is that the end point of all black holes is in one point in space. As the the black holes devour more and more matter it all ends up in the same place, and eventually it explodes into another universe. It's almost certainly not true, but it's another theory.:greengrin

[northstandhibby]

Another way of looking at it is that the end point of all black holes is in one point in space. As the the black holes devour more and more matter it all ends up in the same place, and eventually it explodes into another universe. It's almost certainly not true, but it's another theory.:greengrin

It actually makes more sense than some theories out there as what happens when the black hole is filled with all of the gaseous elements and is stuffed full - one big atomic pump/dump that escapes through a rip elsewhere in the black hole forming another gaseous universe/galaxy?

glory glory

[Hibrandenburg]

Another way of looking at it is that the end point of all black holes is in one point in space. As the the black holes devour more and more matter it all ends up in the same place, and eventually it explodes into another universe. It's almost certainly not true, but it's another theory.:greengrin

Kinda like black holes being the reproductive organs of universes. :hmmm:

[Hibrandenburg]

Cracking eggs into a frying pan around the same time would be a very simplistic yet true analogy of that idea. The outermost edges of the albumen will converge and mix together however the vast majority of the main body of the egg is far denser and remains relatively still. Much like the outermost parts of the atmospheres will merge together but with a thin sparse density by that time and shouldn't be able to spring back in in on itself unless of course a competing denser force emerges from outwith to invade our universes galaxies atmospheres etc upsetting our stability. However ours seems to have been around for billions of our years so far.

Its a theory

:aok:

glory glory


I also like the idea that the rules of physics might only apply to our universe and other universes might have their own laws.

[Hibby Bairn]

Head spinning stuff. I still can't get my idea around how the first atom was formed from nothing?

[lord bunberry]

Kinda like black holes being the reproductive organs of universes. :hmmm:
:agree:There are a lot of people who believe the universe is a living being.

[northstandhibby]

:agree:There are a lot of people who believe the universe is a living being.

I've speculated on that theory too and didn't discount it. Why not indeed, It's a possibility we could be micro organisms/enzymes inhabiting an internal part of a much larger organism/s of whatever shape or type.

glory glory

[northstandhibby]

I also like the idea that the rules of physics might only apply to our universe and other universes might have their own laws.

Each universe might have a unique distinct role to play with its own laws indeed as part of a functioning larger organic set of laws. However I would expect some form of replication further down the line whatever the bigger picture is, based on reproduction as per dna replication possibly?

glory glory

[Hibee87]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39642992

[The_Exile]

This theory is mind blowing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

[lord bunberry]

This theory is mind blowing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

That theory is also known as the big freeze, which I mentioned earlier in the thread. That is obviously a much more in depth explanation than I could possibly manage :greengrin

[GreenLake]

I just bought a new Galaxy

[northstandhibby]

The force would be gravity. At the moment expansion and gravity are at a level where the universe expands at the current rate. If gravity was to be stronger we would have the universe contracting into a Big Crunch. If expansion was to be stronger we would have what known as a big rip, that would cause everything to come apart until eventually time and space would rip apart.

I was reading a little bit here and there and of a theory that makes some sense of an infinite expansion causing the universe to become so dense it would crush objects to smithereens.

I thought of an analogy consisting of a very fizzy bottle of coca cola, shaking it very hard and then opening it (big bang). Once the gas and energy has disappeared from it you're left with a dead liquid.

Our universe is a bit like a fizzy bottle of coke full of gaseous compounds and atomic energy. Maybe the experts are surmising a dead universe devoid of the gas and atomic energy that's ever so very slowly being lost and expanding into the outer fields which is absorbing our gas and energy whereby our universe ultimately ends up like a dead dense bottle of coca cola.

its a theory?

glory glory

[Smartie]

Apparently if it does go supernova it will be enough to make it light at night time.

Can I go back to this point?

What would the likely impact of this be, if there was no night time?

Would we just get blacked out curtains to carry on with our circadian rhythms?

Would there be much of an impact on plants, photosynthesis (I know, they need light, but work with me here)etc and their ability to take CO2 and turn it into oxygen (which we then turn back into CO2 via respiration)?

I might not sleep tonight.

[lord bunberry]

Can I go back to this point?

What would the likely impact of this be, if there was no night time?

Would we just get blacked out curtains to carry on with our circadian rhythms?

Would there be much of an impact on plants, photosynthesis (I know, they need light, but work with me here)etc and their ability to take CO2 and turn it into oxygen (which we then turn back into CO2 via respiration)?

I might not sleep tonight.
It wouldn't be like full daylight, it would just be lighter than normal in the evening. It wouldn't make enough of a difference to upset any of our natural rhythms.

[Moulin Yarns]

The thing I love most about this subject is that the possibilities are almost endless.

To infinity and beyond

[lord bunberry]

I was reading a little bit here and there and of a theory that makes some sense of an infinite expansion causing the universe to become so dense it would crush objects to smithereens.

I thought of an analogy consisting of a very fizzy bottle of coca cola, shaking it very hard and then opening it (big bang). Once the gas and energy has disappeared from it you're left with a dead liquid.

Our universe is a bit like a fizzy bottle of coke full of gaseous compounds and atomic energy. Maybe the experts are surmising a dead universe devoid of the gas and atomic energy that's ever so very slowly being lost and expanding into the outer fields which is absorbing our gas and energy whereby our universe ultimately ends up like a dead dense bottle of coca cola.

its a theory?

glory glory
That's roughly how I understand it as well. Once all the energy runs out, we're left with a cold universe. As humans we feel the need to think of everything having a beginning and an end, but maybe some things never end, they just keep going even when nothing is really happening anymore. In this subject I think it's helpful to try and put aside what we consider as normal when trying to theorise.

[stuart-farquhar]

https://youtu.be/cUiSMPHRrhc

Worth a look.

[northstandhibby]

https://youtu.be/cUiSMPHRrhc

Worth a look.

Your'e link doesn't work and i'd be interested to read what you're trying to post. Any chance of paraphrasing it if link has been removed or faulty?

Cheers.

glory glory

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENyyRwxpHo&sns=em

The most detailed map of the universe to date.

[northstandhibby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENyyRwxpHo&sns=em

The most detailed map of the universe to date.

Utterly amazing. Will we ever really know what the bigger picture and story is?

glory glory

[lord bunberry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENyyRwxpHo&sns=em

The most detailed map of the universe to date.
The fascinating thing about that is that galaxy super clusters shouldn't really exist. That's why we know that dark matter exists. Galaxies all have an escape velocity that would see them escape the gravitational pull of the other galaxies. Without dark matter every galaxy exceeds that velocity.

[stuart-farquhar]

https://youtu.be/cUiSMPHRrhc

It works by copying and pasting if that helps.

[lord bunberry]

https://youtu.be/cUiSMPHRrhc

It works by copying and pasting if that helps.
There you go

[hibs#1]

Truly mind blowing the size of universe.
Not really a huge interest of mine buto it is fascinating.
My tuppence worth no danger there isn't life out there somewhere even if it is just some forms of bacteria or something still think there will some sort of evolved life though.

[lord bunberry]

Truly mind blowing the size of universe.
Not really a huge interest of mine buto it is fascinating.
My tuppence worth no danger there isn't life out there somewhere even if it is just some forms of bacteria or something still think there will some sort of evolved life though.

I agree. I don't think intelligent life is widespread, but bacterial life will be present on millions if not billions of worlds.
One idea I've been kicking around my head for a wee while is concerning evolution. Evolution on our planet started with bacteria evolving into other more complex life and eventually on to what we have now, bit given that we are almost identical in our make up to every other living being and more importantly our chemical composition is very similar to that of rocks. Is it possible that somewhere in the universe a planet has evolved to have consciousness? I know it sounds ridiculous, but when you think of the circumstances that led to humans it seems more plausible. The chances of us evolving from the first bacterial life must be billions and billions to one.
I really think on this subject absolutely anything is possible and probably is given the sheer size of the universe and the possibility that our universe is probably just one amongst an infinite number of other universes.

[Just Alf]

I agree. I don't think intelligent life is widespread, but bacterial life will be present on millions if not billions of worlds.
One idea I've been kicking around my head for a wee while is concerning evolution. Evolution on our planet started with bacteria evolving into other more complex life and eventually on to what we have now, bit given that we are almost identical in our make up to every other living being and more importantly our chemical composition is very similar to that of rocks. Is it possible that somewhere in the universe a planet has evolved to have consciousness? I know it sounds ridiculous, but when you think of the circumstances that led to humans it seems more plausible. The chances of us evolving from the first bacterial life must be billions and billions to one.
I really think on this subject absolutely anything is possible and probably is given the sheer size of the universe and the possibility that our universe is probably just one amongst an infinite number of other universes.


Errrr.... What's to say OUR planet isn't already conscious? .... We just don't know how to communicate with it!



Seriously though, interesting point. :aok:

[Hibrandenburg]

Another thought that I play with is where are we as humans on the size spectrum? We know that there are things that are infinitely bigger and smaller than we are, but are we near the middle of the spectrum or closer to the biggest or smallest thing?

[hibs#1]

Another thought that I play with is where are we as humans on the size spectrum? We know that there are things that are infinitely bigger and smaller than we are, but are we near the middle of the spectrum or closer to the biggest or smallest thing?


Like our universe is just a small galaxy in an other larger galaxy and so on.like Russian dolls if you like?

[Hibrandenburg]

Like our universe is just a small galaxy in an other larger galaxy and so on.like Russian dolls if you like?

Not so much the universe but the things in it. Is the difference between us and the biggest thing greater than between us and the smallest?

[danhibees1875]

Not so much the universe but the things in it. Is the difference between us and the biggest thing greater than between us and the smallest?

Us : Tiniest quarks within an atom (or anything out there that is smaller)

vs

Us : Largest star in the universe(s) (or anything out there that is bigger)


Excellent topic by the way, OP. Have been reading with interest. The universe, in it's infiniteness, is fascinating. It saddens me that I'm confident we won't come close to understanding even a tiny % of it all before I die. I'm 99.9% certain that there is life, intelligent at that, out there - just based on probability due to the size of it all. I don't know how likely we are to ever encounter them though, given the billions of years the universe has existed for and the billions to surely come, we'll only likely be here to meet them for a small scope of time in that timeline.


A similar question to your one on size is where we fall on the scale of intelligence/evolution/industrialisation compared to everything else out there.

[hibs#1]

Hopefully before I die we find there really are people like groot and star-Lord out there.

Keep posting though guys very enjoyable and interesting reading 👍.

[Hibrandenburg]

Us : Tiniest quarks within an atom (or anything out there that is smaller)

vs

Us : Largest star in the universe(s) (or anything out there that is bigger)


Excellent topic by the way, OP. Have been reading with interest. The universe, in it's infiniteness, is fascinating. It saddens me that I'm confident we won't come close to understanding even a tiny % of it all before I die. I'm 99.9% certain that there is life, intelligent at that, out there - just based on probability due to the size of it all. I don't know how likely we are to ever encounter them though, given the billions of years the universe has existed for and the billions to surely come, we'll only likely be here to meet them for a small scope of time in that timeline.


A similar question to your one on size is where we fall on the scale of intelligence/evolution/industrialisation compared to everything else out there.

My belief in extra terrestrial life is not based on the high chance that there is life out there but rather on the miniscule odds that there isn't. A small but important difference.

[danhibees1875]

My belief in extra terrestrial life is not based on the high chance that there is life out there but rather on the miniscule odds that there isn't. A small but important difference.

Very poetic H, but what do you mean? (Sorry if I'm having a bit of a whoosh moment)

[Hibrandenburg]

Very poetic H, but what do you mean? (Sorry if I'm having a bit of a whoosh moment)

Most guesses at how much intelligent life out there are based on the Drake formula. But the Drake formula uses many unknown components and depending on these components you will get an answer of somewhere between 100's of millions of possible planets that will or have produced intelligent life and less than 1 but still more than 0. Now bearing in mind the formula is only used to calculate the likelihood of intelligent life in our Galaxy and the universe is infinite then the actual number of planets that will or have produced intelligent ET life is also infinite and that based on using the most pessimistic components in the calculation. The theory has its flaws, none more than the so called Fermi (I think) paradox but it's the best we've got and I like to think that even the most pessimistic outlook still guarantees swotty ETS.

[sleeping giant]

Most guesses at how much intelligent life out there are based on the Drake formula. But the Drake formula uses many unknown components and depending on these components you will get an answer of somewhere between 100's of millions of possible planets that will or have produced intelligent life and less than 1 but still more than 0. Now bearing in mind the formula is only used to calculate the likelihood of intelligent life in our Galaxy and the universe is infinite then the actual number of planets that will or have produced intelligent ET life is also infinite and that based on using the most pessimistic components in the calculation. The theory has its flaws, none more than the so called Fermi (I think) paradox but it's the best we've got and I like to think that even the most pessimistic outlook still guarantees swotty ETS.

How can the universe be infinite ?
If it started as a point and is expanding , it's very much finite surely ?

[Hibrandenburg]

How can the universe be infinite ?
If it started as a point and is expanding , it's very much finite surely ?

Badly worded I agree but we don't know if the universe is infinite or not but it's contents for all intents and purposes are. We can't see the edges of the universe at present and might never be able to.

[lord bunberry]

There's a new documentary series starting on Sunday night called Strip the universe. It's on the discovery channel, the trailer looked quite good.

[lord bunberry]

The Mars Perseverance rover is due to land next week. It’s got a mini helicopter on it that will be able to explore more than ever before. Fingers crossed that everything goes well.
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/

[Keith_M]

The Mars Perseverance rover is due to land next week. It’s got a mini helicopter on it that will be able to explore more than ever before. Fingers crossed that everything goes well.
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/


Who's operating the remote controls?

[lord bunberry]

Who's operating the remote controls?
NASA pilots from Earth.

[McD]

NASA pilots from Earth.


that’s incredible, genuinely.

what’s the transmission time for a signal sent from earth or Mars to control the helicopter, does anyone know?

[lord bunberry]

that’s incredible, genuinely.

what’s the transmission time for a signal sent from earth or Mars to control the helicopter, does anyone know?
I can’t remember the exact time, but I know that they have to do all the instructions in one go and send them together. It’s the same with all the rovers due to the time delay.

[Hibrandenburg]

I can’t remember the exact time, but I know that they have to do all the instructions in one go and send them together. It’s the same with all the rovers due to the time delay.

I've got Software that allows me to preplan my drone's route prior to it taking off by using way points. I'm guessing the first flight will be basically just up and down to get a look at the terrain and then use that information to plan further flights. All guesswork on my part of course.

[lord bunberry]

I've got Software that allows me to preplan my drone's route prior to it taking off by using way points. I'm guessing the first flight will be basically just up and down to get a look at the terrain and then use that information to plan further flights. All guesswork on my part of course.
I would guess that as well. They have satellites in orbit that they might use to look at the terrain.

[McD]

I can’t remember the exact time, but I know that they have to do all the instructions in one go and send them together. It’s the same with all the rovers due to the time delay.


I've got Software that allows me to preplan my drone's route prior to it taking off by using way points. I'm guessing the first flight will be basically just up and down to get a look at the terrain and then use that information to plan further flights. All guesswork on my part of course.


I would guess that as well. They have satellites in orbit that they might use to look at the terrain.


very interesting, thanks for this info :thumbsup:

[Hibernia&Alba]

This is a great video: How will the universe end? Based upon the best science we have today (which could change of course) it covers the trillions of years in the future when all matter in the universe will disappear. Does it leave you feeling depressed or, conversely, does it put put your own problems into true perspective? I find more the latter actually.


https://youtu.be/uD4izuDMUQA

[Mikey]

You can watch NASA's Mars Rover landing tonight live on YouTube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0b_ijaYMQ

[hibsbollah]

You can watch NASA's Mars Rover landing tonight live on YouTube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0b_ijaYMQ

Perseverance. That’s a clear Leith/Hibs reference.
Another first for Leith, First Robot To Mars:top marks

[lord bunberry]

I can’t wait to watch it. The 7 minutes of terror must be absolutely torturous for the people who have put years of work into this program. I remember watching the Curiosity landing, the people in mission control looked ill with worry during that 7 minutes. I’m sure they’re using the same landing technique this time, so that might ease their nerves a little.

[lord bunberry]

https://youtu.be/rzmd7RouGrM
https://youtu.be/rzmd7RouGrM

[The_Exile]

Around 15 minutes until we enter the martian atmosphere, genuinely nervous!

[lord bunberry]

Around 15 minutes until we enter the martian atmosphere, genuinely nervous!
Same here.

[The_Exile]

Same here.

Almost a decade of planning, design and execution all boils down to the next 10 minutes. I cannot imagine the stress and worry that team must be feeling right now.

[lord bunberry]

Almost a decade of planning, design and execution all boils down to the next 10 minutes. I cannot imagine the stress and worry that team must be feeling right now.
Entry has begun, they must be bricking it right now.

[The_Exile]

Incredible scenes in control, that was epic and it looks like everything went absolutely perfectly. Amazing.

[lord bunberry]

Touchdown on Mars. Get in there.

[Jay]

Really emotional. Amazing stuff. My boys name is on Mars!

[CropleyWasGod]

Are the photos actually B and W, or are the lenses covered in dust?

[The_Exile]

Are the photos actually B and W, or are the lenses covered in dust?

I'd imagine there will be a lot of dust kicked up by the landing, but those cameras are the engineering cameras for navigation which as far as I'm aware, were "on" for the landing and aren't as high-res as the cameras which we will be seeing images from over the coming weeks.

[Ryan91]

Are the photos actually B and W, or are the lenses covered in dust?

Engineering camera will be B/W - low bandwidth, easy enough to send a quick black and white pic to show it's landed.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cheers both. I was starting to wonder if there was a budget issue 😁

[lord bunberry]

Are the photos actually B and W, or are the lenses covered in dust?
Both. All the cameras on the rover are black and white. Any images you see from space are taken in black and white and then the colour is added when they’re released. I might be wrong but I think there might be a colour camera on the Juno probe orbiting Jupiter.

[RyeSloan]

Both. All the cameras on the rover are black and white. Any images you see from space are taken in black and white and then the colour is added when they’re released. I might be wrong but I think there might be a colour camera on the Juno probe orbiting Jupiter.

Great explanation of why that’s the case here:

https://www.straightdope.com/21344181/why-are-images-from-space-probes-always-in-black-and-white

[Dalianwanda]

Has the wee helicopter got a video camera on it? That would be cool, some drone footage..

[lord bunberry]

Great explanation of why that’s the case here:

https://www.straightdope.com/21344181/why-are-images-from-space-probes-always-in-black-and-white
Thanks. I’d seen something like that before, but that went into much more detail. Like I said earlier I think Juno has a colour camera, but it’s purely used for public interest, the rest of the cameras are black and white and used for research.

[Mikey]

Has the wee helicopter got a video camera on it? That would be cool, some drone footage..

Yes, it has 2 colour cameras.

[Ryan91]

NASA JPL has confirmed that the Rotorcraft that Perseverance took to Mars, Ingenuity has successfully performed the first powered flight by a human craft on another Planet

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

EDIT: Footage from the Rover of the flight of Ingenuity

https://v.redd.it/di6jh1ly44u61