Benefits cap

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Watched Panorama last night on the benefits cap.

Found it quite disturbing the lady who kept talking about getting 'her money' back first and her kids back second. She clearly had more going on than the cameras showed.

Interestsd what fols here think of it - to me it highlighted the difficulty of moving from benefits to work, which has to made easier (felt heart sorry for the guy from walsall), but also that the sense of entitlement that pervaded some of the others was shocking.

[Mike Berry]

I suspect they were very selective about who they featured

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[Colr]

The right have pushed this line for a hundred years or more and are selective in their examples.

If the givernment was really interested they would be gathering real data on the hardships people genuinely face in poverty as when Mass Observation existed but they are not really interested.

Selective benefits always create perverse incentives and unfairness which nurses senses of grievences all-round.

Beverages masterstoke was introducing a system of universal benefits where everyone who paid in got something out so it was much easier to sell the the middle classes as well (also a feature of New Labour sell on NHS ands school investment - take note Corbyn, you idiot). With benefits taken away like child benefit and unemployment support for middle class people (which has been done by the tories) there will will be much less support for benefits in general.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The right have pushed this line for a hundred years or more and are selective in their examples.

If the givernment was really interested they would be gathering real data on the hardships people genuinely face in poverty as when Mass Observation existed but they are not really interested.

Selective benefits always create perverse incentives and unfairness which nurses senses of grievences all-round.

Beverages masterstoke was introducing a system of universal benefits where everyone who paid in got something out so it was much easier to sell the the middle classes as well (also a feature of New Labour sell on NHS ands school investment - take note Corbyn, you idiot). With benefits taken away like child benefit and unemployment support for middle class people (which has been done by the tories) there will will be much less support for benefits in general.

Interesting points.

I accept that the examples will have been selected by someone, somewhere but it is the BBC, so not exactly known as a bastion of right wing.

But Beveridge's pkan was never to have benefits as a permanant way of life i dont think.

A net beneath which nodody shall fall, but above which everybody should rise.

[RyeSloan]

I only saw the end of it and it's always difficult to make judgement calls on an overall system versus the individual stories.

The 20k cap though is roughly equivalent to the take home pay of the UK average salary so on the face of it seems a fair enough level for benefits to be limited to.

On the flip side an arbitrary cap may not be he best solution but ultimately surely a line has to be drawn somewhere no?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I was watching with the mrs, who works for the NHS. They were bringing in more than she earns, net, in a week.

She wasnt a happy bunny!!

[Colr]

I was watching with the mrs, who works for the NHS. They were bringing in more than she earns, net, in a week.

She wasnt a happy bunny!!

NHS wages are ****, it's true.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

NHS wages are ****, it's true.

Not all of them. Doctors are very handsomely paid.

But on fhe whole, yeah for the job they do.

[Allant1981]

NHS wages are ****, it's true.


are they? some roles could be better paid but dont think all jobs are badly paid

[Colr]

are they? some roles could be better paid but dont think all jobs are badly paid

The porters do OK as they have the unions behind them often to the cost of the PAMS who, of course are mostly women.

[Allant1981]

The porters do OK as they have the unions behind them often to the cost of the PAMS who, of course are mostly women.

sorry but thats just nonsense, when the pay deals came in a few years ago within nhs scotland the facilities staff pay had no detriment to any other staff group

[Colr]

sorry but thats just nonsense, when the pay deals came in a few years ago within nhs scotland the facilities staff pay had no detriment to any other staff group

Different in England where the manual (male) staff got an enhanced increase at the expense of the (mostly female) PAMs courtesy of Unison.

[snooky]

Watched Panorama last night on the benefits cap.

Found it quite disturbing the lady who kept talking about getting 'her money' back first and her kids back second. She clearly had more going on than the cameras showed.

Interestsd what fols here think of it - to me it highlighted the difficulty of moving from benefits to work, which has to made easier (felt heart sorry for the guy from walsall), but also that the sense of entitlement that pervaded some of the others was shocking.

Oddly enough, I get a similar "sense of entitlement" from high financiers, Lords & Ladys, top sportsmen, hospital car park owners :wink:, etc. The only difference being the amount of money that's involved. :coffee:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Oddly enough, I get a similar "sense of entitlement" from high financiers, Lords & Ladys, top sportsmen, hospital car park owners :wink:, etc. The only difference being the amount of money that's involved. :coffee:

Fair enough, you obviously move in circles far loftier than i do!

[snooky]

Fair enough, you obviously move in circles far loftier than i do!

:greengrin I doubt it.

[HiBremian]

Interesting points.

I accept that the examples will have been selected by someone, somewhere but it is the BBC, so not exactly known as a bastion of right wing.

But Beveridge's pkan was never to have benefits as a permanant way of life i dont think.

A net beneath which nodody shall fall, but above which everybody should rise.

The BBC chase sensationalism (or "ratings" as they say in the industry) just as much as the next broadcaster, though perhaps with more gentle-middle-england taste.

Beveridge's plan was for a universal safety net within a system of full employment, something which would not have happened if Churchill had won in 1945. The failure in the benefits system is actually the failure to maintain full employment, a political aim specifically dropped by neoliberalism in the1970s. Unemployment in the 50's and 60's was simply "churn" as workers moved from one job to another. Strangely the only "way of lifers" then were drug addicts, particularly alcoholics. Isn't a coinicidence that, once unemployment is a "price worth paying", we get people permanently on benefits?


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[Colr]

The BBC chase sensationalism (or "ratings" as they say in the industry) just as much as the next broadcaster, though perhaps with more gentle-middle-england taste.

Beveridge's plan was for a universal safety net within a system of full employment, something which would not have happened if Churchill had won in 1945. The failure in the benefits system is actually the failure to maintain full employment, a political aim specifically dropped by neoliberalism in the1970s. Unemployment in the 50's and 60's was simply "churn" as workers moved from one job to another. Strangely the only "way of lifers" then were drug addicts, particularly alcoholics. Isn't a coinicidence that, once unemployment is a "price worth paying", we get people permanently on benefits?


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Full em-loy,ent could be achieved along with many other benefits if the Government implemented a house building programme and stopped imported labour to the building industry. Get women into building as well.