Cummings

[givescotlandfreedom]

I think we'd have won with the chances we had and Jason in the team yesterday. Shows both sides of him IMO: how important he is to the team but also what a stupid red card can do to damage us and the campaign.

[HibsNutter]

We should definitely be able to take care of a part-time team without JC. That goes without saying.

Although, he has been priceless for us this year and thankfully he will be available to go straight back in for the next games against Falkirk and Morton having been sent off for two yellows in the United game. I mentioned on another thread that if his handball goal had been allowed to stand he may have been banned retrospectively for three games, which may have been terrible for us going on Keatings' performance yesterday.

[hibbysam]

We should definitely be able to take care of a part-time team without JC. That goes without saying.

Although, he has been priceless for us this year and thankfully he will be available to go straight back in for the next games against Falkirk and Morton having been sent off for two yellows in the United game. I mentioned on another thread that if his handball goal had been allowed to stand he may have been banned retrospectively for three games, which may have been terrible for us going on Keatings' performance yesterday.

I have never heard of anyone being banned for three games for deliberate handball...

[Smartie]

I think we'd have won with the chances we had and Jason in the team yesterday. Shows both sides of him IMO: how important he is to the team but also what a stupid red card can do to damage us and the campaign.

Quite right.

We were too soon to say we got away with his sending off just because we managed to get through the United game.

We needed him yesterday and he didn't play for stupid reasons. We need him to cut out the nonsense and we need to stop deluding ourselves that it doesn't cost us.

[HibsNutter]

I have never heard of anyone being banned for three games for deliberate handball...

If it directly lead to a goal it would have been longer than a one match ban.

[hibbysam]

Quite right.

We were too soon to say we got away with his sending off just because we managed to get through the United game.

We needed him yesterday and he didn't play for stupid reasons. We need him to cut out the nonsense and we need to stop deluding ourselves that it doesn't cost us.

Jason Cummings did not cost us on Saturday. If our squad can't cope for one game against a bunch of part time has beens then that says more about his replacements than him.

[hibbysam]

If it directly lead to a goal it would have been longer than a one match ban.

Has anyone ever been banned for deliberate handball retrospectively before? I certainly have never heard of it. Diving to win a penalty is 2 games and that is the only retrospective red cards I've seen other than violent conduct.

[Boyle89]

Has anyone ever been banned for deliberate handball retrospectively before? I certainly have never heard of it. Diving to win a penalty is 2 games and that is the only retrospective red cards I've seen other than violent conduct.

It would still count as deceiving the ref though to win the game? Probably the sfa would want to set a precedent and would be more than glad to put one over on us for beating their team in may.

[RoYO!]

Has anyone ever been banned for deliberate handball retrospectively before? I certainly have never heard of it. Diving to win a penalty is 2 games and that is the only retrospective red cards I've seen other than violent conduct.

Didn't Henry handle the ball once?!... Never picked up at the time. What action was taken there?

[blackpoolhibs]

I can't really get my head around Hibs not being able to beat a part time club like Dumbarton at home.

Cummings is a very good goalscorer, who's work off the ball has improved immensely.

Yet here we are once again saying how we would have won had he played. Surely to god a club of our stature should still be beating them with our main goalscorer suspended?

Players need to step up, but don't unless its a big game, although they do talk a good game.

I have a feeling we will scrape over the line, but if we do a huge clearout of players who really are not good enough is clearly needed once again IMO.

And the two players who are worth any money will probably be off for richer times, and we will be then back to bringing in players to build a new side hoping they gel for a new season.

And when i look at the players brought in by Lennon this season, his loans have been much better than the players he actually signed.

And thats a worry for me.

[Ozyhibby]

There was a fair percentage of posters on here offering to drive him to Peterborough themselves in the summer. Thank goodness he didn't leave.


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[JDHibs]

Think people are being a bit disrespectful to Dumbarton. They were well organised and defended well with everyone behind the ball.

They are the top scorers in the league away from home this season so was never going to be an easy task. Bartley made a stupid mistake for the penalty, gifting them the lead. Gray was in no mans land for their 2nd, Rocky could have maybe done better but was an excellent finish.

Saturday showed me Keatings isnt good enough for us. He was rubbish, missing a penalty made it worse. We have no one capable of replacing Jason which is very worrying considering we have 5/6 strikers on the books.

[JimBHibees]

Think people are being a bit disrespectful to Dumbarton. They were well organised and defended well with everyone behind the ball.

They are the top scorers in the league away from home this season so was never going to be an easy task. Bartley made a stupid mistake for the penalty, gifting them the lead. Gray was in no mans land for their 2nd, Rocky could have maybe done better but was an excellent finish.

Saturday showed me Keatings isnt good enough for us. He was rubbish, missing a penalty made it worse. We have no one capable of replacing Jason which is very worrying considering we have 5/6 strikers on the books.

Agree actually think their manager has done a pretty decent job and should be considered for full time teams. The week before they beat Raith 4-0 so was never going to be a stroll, not that we do strolls. :greengrin

The goals we lost were criminal as was missing a pen so we shot ourselves in the foot big time.

[blackpoolhibs]

Think people are being a bit disrespectful to Dumbarton. They were well organised and defended well with everyone behind the ball.

They are the top scorers in the league away from home this season so was never going to be an easy task. Bartley made a stupid mistake for the penalty, gifting them the lead. Gray was in no mans land for their 2nd, Rocky could have maybe done better but was an excellent finish.

Saturday showed me Keatings isnt good enough for us. He was rubbish, missing a penalty made it worse. We have no one capable of replacing Jason which is very worrying considering we have 5/6 strikers on the books.

I personally dont think its disrespectful to expect us to beat any part time team at easter road, especially a part time team who managed to lose to Bonnyrigg Rose.

[Smartie]

I personally dont think its disrespectful to expect us to beat any part time team at easter road, especially a part time team who managed to lose to Bonnyrigg Rose.

It's also reasonable to expect a freak bad result once in a blue moon.

The regularity with which we've dropped points at home to pish opposition this season has been frightening.

[blackpoolhibs]

It's also reasonable to expect a freak bad result once in a blue moon.

The regularity with which we've dropped points at home to pish opposition this season has been frightening.


:agree:

[beensaidbefore]

Jason Cummings did not cost us on Saturday. If our squad can't cope for one game against a bunch of part time has beens then that says more about his replacements than him.

The question is would he have been in the starting line up. I feel he would have so in that respect he did cost us as we weren't able to field our strongest team. Regardless who else is in the squad, needless sending offs do cost the team.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Keatings, bar a few good crosses, was absolutely dreadful on Saturday. Too often on the periphery and his decision making at times was poor.

[jacomo]

Time for Graham + Jase?

[Scorrie]

The Glasgow Herald is reporting this morning that Sunderland are prepared to bid £2m for JC in the summet

[Fuzzywuzzy]

You would like to think Petrie would be looking for more than that. Ffs, McKay has been touted at £6m and done very little.

[lucky]

The Glasgow Herald is reporting this morning that Sunderland are prepared to bid £2m for JC in the summet

Can't see Hibs selling for £2m. JC has improved as a player and for the third season in a row he's scored 20+ goals. He'll get his move to England but for around £4m but I'm not sure if he'll cut it in the championship but you never know with his natural goal scoring ability

[Ozyhibby]

Can't see Hibs selling for £2m. JC has improved as a player and for the third season in a row he's scored 20+ goals. He'll get his move to England but for around £4m but I'm not sure if he'll cut it in the championship but you never know with his natural goal scoring ability

I think he will be here next season and we will get a lot more than £2m.


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[Tamhere1875]

Will Lennon see Oli Shaw as the player to fill in Cummings spot if he does sell him or will he go for someone else?

[B.H.F.C]

Will Lennon see Oli Shaw as the player to fill in Cummings spot if he does sell him or will he go for someone else?

Even if Cummings stays in the summer we need at least one new striker. If he goes I wouldn't be gambling on replacing him with someone like Shaw.

[R'Albin]

Will Lennon see Oli Shaw as the player to fill in Cummings spot if he does sell him or will he go for someone else?

I really doubt it. We can't be expecting an untried youngster to come in and replace 20+ goals a season. Cummings himself didn't score in his first 16 games for us.

If Cummings does go I'd be expecting us to be looking for at the very least three new strikers. Outwith Cummings our current ones just don't have enough goals in them. I'd keep Holt as a squad player as he can be useful to have but Keatings and Graham just aren't good enough.

[silverhibee]

Cummings will leave Hibs this summer.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The Glasgow Herald is reporting this morning that Sunderland are prepared to bid £2m for JC in the summet

Double that and there may be a deal done.

[Tamhere1875]

I really doubt it. We can't be expecting an untried youngster to come in and replace 20+ goals a season. Cummings himself didn't score in his first 16 games for us.

If Cummings does go I'd be expecting us to be looking for at the very least three new strikers. Outwith Cummings our current ones just don't have enough goals in them. I'd keep Holt as a squad player as he can be useful to have but Keatings and Graham just aren't good enough.
And what was Cummings when he first played for Hibs ?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

And what was Cummings when he first played for Hibs ?

Pretty ineffective and a bit part player in a team that got relegated?

[JimBHibees]

Pretty ineffective and a bit part player in a team that got relegated?

Scored 2 goals in the play off final though so not that ineffective.

[Smartie]

Pretty ineffective and a bit part player in a team that got relegated?

A raw youngster who played in an atrocious side that created nothing and occasionally kept players of much higher reputation out of the side?

[Lago]

Cummings will leave Hibs this summer.
If so hopefully for a lot more than £2mil.

[Earlydelivery]

He'll defo score goals in SPL

[Bostonhibby]

The Glasgow Herald is reporting this morning that Sunderland are prepared to bid £2m for JC in the summet
That'll be the deposit until they know how much their parachute payment is.

[ancient hibee]

Cummings will leave Hibs this summer.


No he won't.

[xyz23jc]

Pretty ineffective and a bit part player in a team that got relegated?

Apart from the two goals he scored in the first leg that should have seen us stay up you mean!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Scored 2 goals in the play off final though so not that ineffective.

This kinda makes my point though. Those werehis first senior goals.

He haf one good game, out of what, ten or so appearences towards the end of that season?

My point being that youngsters are generally inconsistent amd unreliable.

Also, Cummings only really established himself in stubbs team around October / November. He was a sub at that start of that season.

Its ultinately unfair on any youngster to rely on them, and to suggest oli Shaw, who as far as i am aware hasnt ever scored and expext him to replace Cummings is ridiculous.

[R'Albin]

And what was Cummings when he first played for Hibs ?

He was also an untried youngster, yes, but Stubbs himself said he hadn't planned on having Cummings as a first team regular. However with El Alagui getting injured and the fact Cummings was getting goals Stubbs quire rightly kept him in.

It would be good to see Shaw getting some game time next season but relying on someone so young who hasn't even played a competitive first team game yet would be mental.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Apart from the two goals he scored in the first leg that should have seen us stay up you mean!

See my post below. One good game did not mean he made a great impact in his initial first team games.

Also, did he not also miss the losing penalty in the shoot-out?

[Waxy]

See my post below. One good game did not mean he made a great impact in his initial first team games.

Also, did he not also miss the losing penalty in the shoot-out?

Anyone can miss a pen. Even Messi.

[Bostonhibby]

In his short Hibs career Cummings has brought a helluva lot more enjoyment than most and contributed all those goals. I really don't see a real downside in terms of what he brings overall. He's the least of our player problems. He's the hammer of the Yams and we'll make a lot of money from him because he signed a contract rather than leaving last time around.

[jacomo]

This kinda makes my point though. Those werehis first senior goals.

He haf one good game, out of what, ten or so appearences towards the end of that season?

My point being that youngsters are generally inconsistent amd unreliable.

Also, Cummings only really established himself in stubbs team around October / November. He was a sub at that start of that season.

Its ultinately unfair on any youngster to rely on them, and to suggest oli Shaw, who as far as i am aware hasnt ever scored and expext him to replace Cummings is ridiculous.


Well said.

Stubbs said himself that he saw JC mostly as a sub, before the player himself (and Farid's injury) forced him to re-evaluate.

JC has improved every season and I'm sure there is more to come. He isn't the finished article.

[JimBHibees]

This kinda makes my point though. Those werehis first senior goals.

He haf one good game, out of what, ten or so appearences towards the end of that season?

My point being that youngsters are generally inconsistent amd unreliable.

Also, Cummings only really established himself in stubbs team around October / November. He was a sub at that start of that season.

Its ultinately unfair on any youngster to rely on them, and to suggest oli Shaw, who as far as i am aware hasnt ever scored and expext him to replace Cummings is ridiculous.

It doesnt really he scored goals that should have kept us up. You do realise the absolute junk he was playing alongside also.

[ancient hibee]

I always thought when Cummings first played that all he needed to do was get a couple of goals and he would motor on from there and I think that is what has happened.Clubs down south will I think want to see him doing that in the top league before offering big money.It will benefit both him and the club to do that next season.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It doesnt really he scored goals that should have kept us up. You do realise the absolute junk he was playing alongside also.

What a weird argument. So because he scored in one game, he made a big impact?

He was part of the team (allbeit peripherally) that got relegated. He was thrown in beforr he was ready.

Like i say, it wasnt his fault, it was unfait to rely so heavily on him and he, like the rest of that spineless bunch, collectively sh8t themselves in rhe return leg and got us relegated. Him missinh the penalty.

Turning up in the game before that hardly exonerates him or means he played no part in our demise.

Im not trying to be anti-Cummings, im trying to point out that his early career was not good, and did him, or the team, no favours.

I definitely dont want to see us return to the days of selling our best players and replacing them with rubbish, or youngsters. We are still trting to recover from that strategy.

[JimBHibees]

What a weird argument. So because he scored in one game, he made a big impact?

He was part of the team (allbeit peripherally) that got relegated. He was thrown in beforr he was ready.

Like i say, it wasnt his fault, it was unfait to rely so heavily on him and he, like the rest of that spineless bunch, collectively sh8t themselves in rhe return leg and got us relegated. Him missinh the penalty.

Turning up in the game before that hardly exonerates him or means he played no part in our demise.

Im not trying to be anti-Cummings, im trying to point out that his early career was not good, and did him, or the team, no favours.

I definitely dont want to see us return to the days of selling our best players and replacing them with rubbish, or youngsters. We are still trting to recover from that strategy.

Not a weird argument at all, you indicated he was ineffectual only to be countered by he scored 2 goals in the play off final which should have kept us up. Always thought he was promising in the early games I saw him play and to be honest he was coming in at the worst possible time for a teenager a team in freefall playing with no confidence with half the players counting down the days before they left the club. In the play off return game Messi would have looked awful in that team, he wasnt the only one to miss a pen and the fact he was willing to step up when other more experienced players bottled it as you so aptly put it speaks volumes and personally dont know anyone who would hold that against him.

[Ryan69]

He was also an untried youngster, yes, but Stubbs himself said he hadn't planned on having Cummings as a first team regular. However with El Alagui getting injured and the fact Cummings was getting goals Stubbs quire rightly kept him in.

It would be good to see Shaw getting some game time next season but relying on someone so young who hasn't even played a competitive first team game yet would be mental.

on the other hand though....You can't teach someone tobe a predator!

Next season when a goal up and cruising...gradually introduce.

quite clear he knows where the goals are.

[Is It On....]

The Glasgow Herald is reporting this morning that Sunderland are prepared to bid £2m for JC in the summet

Is that the first of 3 equal installments?

[Smartie]

Certain players are forever remembered for mistakes such as missing high-profile penalties, but bizarrely I had totally forgotten about Jason missing a penalty in the shoot-out that led to our relegation.

I suppose 3 seasons of very decent goalscoring with a Scottish Cup winner's medal thrown in has helped me forget it.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Certain players are forever remembered for mistakes such as missing high-profile penalties, but bizarrely I had totally forgotten about Jason missing a penalty in the shoot-out that led to our relegation.

I suppose 3 seasons of very decent goalscoring with a Scottish Cup winner's medal thrown in has helped me forget it.

His goal in the first leg might still be his best for us.

I hope when he moves on he goes to the right club and is advised correctly. Has the ability to go far.

[Eyrie]

Not a weird argument at all, you indicated he was ineffectual only to be countered by he scored 2 goals in the play off final which should have kept us up. Always thought he was promising in the early games I saw him play and to be honest he was coming in at the worst possible time for a teenager a team in freefall playing with no confidence with half the players counting down the days before they left the club. In the play off return game Messi would have looked awful in that team, he wasnt the only one to miss a pen and the fact he was willing to step up when other more experienced players bottled it as you so aptly put it speaks volumes and personally dont know anyone who would hold that against him.

Was going to make that very point.

[R'Albin]

on the other hand though....You can't teach someone tobe a predator!

Next season when a goal up and cruising...gradually introduce.

quite clear he knows where the goals are.

That's where I'm at with him.

There's obviously talent there but let's not rush him. He's scoring for fun at development level but the fact he only has 3 in 18 at Stenshousemuir suggests he isn't quite ready yet.

[erin go bragh]

Cummings and Shaw could be our new Deeks and Gary O pairing of the past .
Cummings hopefully will stay another season ( in the spfl) bang in another 20 plus , then get a move . Bidding can start at 5m .

[Is It On....]

Cummings and Shaw could be our new Deeks and Gary O pairing of the past .
Cummings hopefully will stay another season ( in the spfl) bang in another 20 plus , then get a move . Bidding can start at 5m .

What price JC when some Sevco fans seem to think that they can get £5m for Waghorn...

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

What price JC when some Sevco fans seem to think that they can get £5m for Waghorn...

And then no doubt spend less than half of that to sign Cummings.

[eastmainsmsh]

JC is class should be in with the Scotland squad imo