PDA

View Full Version : Lennons after match comments



Alfiembra
18-03-2017, 07:04 PM
Was interested in Neil's comments after the game where he used the phrase "they are not learning"
this isn't the first time he's used this expression and I have sympathy with him as he's sounds as if he's trying everything he can to get the message through to the squad that they need to get their act together.

To me it sounds like he's told them what he expects of them, but something's not getting through.

I know some footballers aren't exactly the sharpest tacks in the box but there doesn't seem to be any leaders on the park that can drive home the message. Do we need a yogi type character to kick some butts during the game?

wookie70
18-03-2017, 07:22 PM
Maybe he isn't learning either. He puts similar sides out, he has bollocked them but they don't get dropped so there are no consequences and we seem to have no game plan, urgency, desire and less and less organisation at the back. We are getting worse as the year progresses. I would see it as a joint responsibility between players and management and if he has pointed the finger again then I think he is doing it to deflect criticism as it certainly isn't doing any good. We have been worse against the lesser teams since his outburst after Raith. The players may need some stern words behind closed doors but criticising them in public again doesn't seem like a winning plan to me. We are paying Lennon to be a manager. Part of a managers job is to inspire, change behaviours and sort something when it is wrong. Blaming the players for not listening says as much about him as it does about them.

HappyAsHellas
18-03-2017, 07:23 PM
We certainly lack a leader on the park as no one seems to take responsibility and drive the team on.

Super_JMcGinn
18-03-2017, 07:24 PM
Was interested in Neil's comments after the game where he used the phrase "they are not learning"
this isn't the first time he's used this expression and I have sympathy with him as he's sounds as if he's trying everything he can to get the message through to the squad that they need to get their act together.

To me it sounds like he's told them what he expects of them, but something's not getting through.

I know some footballers aren't exactly the sharpest tacks in the box but there doesn't seem to be any leaders on the park that can drive home the message. Do we need a yogi type character to kick some butts during the game?

Well he can't use Jason as a scapegoat for that one now can he? On a more serious note I'm concerned that our home form is brutal and the majority of our remaining games are at home. That said I still think we'll win the league but Morton just did us a huge favour there tonight.

RedHibby
18-03-2017, 07:57 PM
Perhaps with Lennon there is more stick than carrot and the players either don't like it or are not responding to it. I didn't want Lennon when he was linked with the club but I have warmed to him. One of the things that worries me is perhaps a lot of the players think that if we go up I will be looking for a new club and that is why their performances in a lot of games are poor.

SGE HIBS
18-03-2017, 08:05 PM
Maybe he isn't learning either. He puts similar sides out, he has bollocked them but they don't get dropped so there are no consequences and we seem to have no game plan, urgency, desire and less and less organisation at the back. We are getting worse as the year progresses. I would see it as a joint responsibility between players and management and if he has pointed the finger again then I think he is doing it to deflect criticism as it certainly isn't doing any good. We have been worse against the lesser teams since his outburst after Raith. The players may need some stern words behind closed doors but criticising them in public again doesn't seem like a winning plan to me. We are paying Lennon to be a manager. Part of a managers job is to inspire, change behaviours and sort something when it is wrong. Blaming the players for not listening says as much about him as it does about them.

Once they cross the line , ita all about them in games against Dumbarton and the likes

greenlex
18-03-2017, 08:06 PM
Maybe he isn't learning either. He puts similar sides out, he has bollocked them but they don't get dropped so there are no consequences and we seem to have no game plan, urgency, desire and less and less organisation at the back. We are getting worse as the year progresses. I would see it as a joint responsibility between players and management and if he has pointed the finger again then I think he is doing it to deflect criticism as it certainly isn't doing any good. We have been worse against the lesser teams since his outburst after Raith. The players may need some stern words behind closed doors but criticising them in public again doesn't seem like a winning plan to me. We are paying Lennon to be a manager. Part of a managers job is to inspire, change behaviours and sort something when it is wrong. Blaming the players for not listening says as much about him as it does about them.

Im not Lennons biggest fan but Im not sure what options he has regarding putting out something different rather than similar with the players at his disposal. I will concede Dylan made a huge difference when he came on but im unsure if that was a smuch to do with going three at the back tho.
We certainly need to play with a bit more urgency. Particularly at home. Boyle is the only player we have with pace but he needs to have a bit more desire and belief. Is Lennon instilling that in him? When Graham came on he had a bit of desire anfd that seemed to rub off a bit on him. Im not so sure Holt has that desire. If he has he doesnt impart it.

makaveli1875
18-03-2017, 08:13 PM
Well he can't use Jason as a scapegoat for that one now can he? On a more serious note I'm concerned that our home form is brutal and the majority of our remaining games are at home. That said I still think we'll win the league but Morton just did us a huge favour there tonight.

the home form is brutal except when we play hertz , dundee united or scottish cup games .

Heisenberg
18-03-2017, 08:14 PM
He's doing no worse than Stubbs so far. These players need to take a very large portion of the blame, it's been the same pish in the league for three seasons now.

Viva_Palmeiras
18-03-2017, 08:22 PM
Perhaps with Lennon there is more stick than carrot and the players either don't like it or are not responding to it. I didn't want Lennon when he was linked with the club but I have warmed to him. One of the things that worries me is perhaps a lot of the players think that if we go up I will be looking for a new club and that is why their performances in a lot of games are poor.

Perhaps What they need is a poke in the eye with the carrot :)

chinaman
18-03-2017, 08:28 PM
Was interested in Neil's comments after the game where he used the phrase "they are not learning"
this isn't the first time he's used this expression and I have sympathy with him as he's sounds as if he's trying everything he can to get the message through to the squad that they need to get their act together.

To me it sounds like he's told them what he expects of them, but something's not getting through.

I know some footballers aren't exactly the sharpest tacks in the box but there doesn't seem to be any leaders on the park that can drive home the message. Do we need a yogi type character to kick some butts during the game?
Don't worry alf , it's still in the hibees hands lots still to play for . Another trip to hampdump yet again and hopefully win the cup again too.
Imagine the nightmare scenario for the poppy thieving disgraces across town...very pleasing eh ?

Deansy
18-03-2017, 08:34 PM
Maybe he isn't learning either. He puts similar sides out, he has bollocked them but they don't get dropped so there are no consequences and we seem to have no game plan, urgency, desire and less and less organisation at the back. We are getting worse as the year progresses. I would see it as a joint responsibility between players and management and if he has pointed the finger again then I think he is doing it to deflect criticism as it certainly isn't doing any good. We have been worse against the lesser teams since his outburst after Raith. The players may need some stern words behind closed doors but criticising them in public again doesn't seem like a winning plan to me. We are paying Lennon to be a manager. Part of a managers job is to inspire, change behaviours and sort something when it is wrong. Blaming the players for not listening says as much about him as it does about them.

You've the 'Nail on the head' - more than just one or two of them need dropped !. Too many of our players are currently sitting in their own wee comfort-zone !

AgentDaleCooper
18-03-2017, 08:59 PM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

Iggy Pope
18-03-2017, 09:05 PM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

No choice but to drop him from the next game so we'll see how that works out.

bingo70
18-03-2017, 09:07 PM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

For all the faults that could be labelled at any of the players imo yours is about as far away from the truth as possible.

Doesn't always work for McGinn but his effort could never be called into question imo.

Imo Our first goal today wouldn't have happened if the ball had fallen to anyone else other than McGinn when he smacked it across the goal like that.

HFCdeb
18-03-2017, 09:45 PM
Players have proven over nearly 3 seasons now that they're not "champions". Excellent in knockout tournaments but distinctly lacking in powering through a league campaign, which means getting up for it against trams like Dumbarton and Ayr even if it's not "glamorous" and the crowd is a bit lethargic or whatever.

CMurdoch
18-03-2017, 09:52 PM
Perhaps What they need is a poke in the eye with the carrot :)
:top marks

JohnM1875
18-03-2017, 09:54 PM
Well he can't use Jason as a scapegoat for that one now can he? On a more serious note I'm concerned that our home form is brutal and the majority of our remaining games are at home. That said I still think we'll win the league but Morton just did us a huge favour there tonight.

Morton done us a huge favour? They closed the gap on us and are looking increasingly likely to be our closest rivals for the league! Beat us and win their game in hand they are 1 point behind and we've still to play them at Capiellow where they are unbeaten for over a year. Strange favour.

Baldy Foghorn
18-03-2017, 09:56 PM
Morton done us a huge favour? They closed the gap on us and are looking increasingly likely to be our closest rivals for the league! Beat us and win their game in hand they are 1 point behind and we've still to play them at Capiellow where they are unbeaten for over a year. Strange favour.

Indeed....How bad when we are talking about MORTON being our challengers

Ilovehibs
18-03-2017, 10:43 PM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

What a load of s***e. Without McGinn today we would have had nothing going forward from midfield ( certainly until Dylan came on).

What a suggestion to improve the team- drop McGinn!!!???
As you say, you weren't at the game today.
Jesus wept.

ancient hibee
18-03-2017, 10:48 PM
The players perform well when underdogs but don't have the bottle to cope when they are favourites.Big clear out when we get promoted.

pacoluna
18-03-2017, 10:54 PM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

Mcginn Is the only player we have that drives forward with purpose and intent, he's our engine. Unfortunately we do rely on him too much and when he isn't at his best the whole team is effected. Having said that I thought we was ok today other than ambrose he was the only player that looked to get the ball on the deck and drive us forward

Hi Heid Yin
18-03-2017, 11:00 PM
These players are letting Lennon and we fans down far, far too often.
We are limping and spluttering our way to the finishing line and giving every encouragement to the chasing pack.
Lennon is understandably exasperated, but he has his hands tied in who he can play and he has to strike a balance between stick and carrot, praise and criticism.
I still think that we will be champions but only just.
He, like we, will feel nothing but an overwhelming sense of relief at that point.

Not In The Know
18-03-2017, 11:02 PM
its basically the same bunch of players that failed last season to beat the so called lesser teams.

Lennons tweaked the team and tactics but its the same players making the same mistakes and carrying the same attitude into the non televised games. We didn't get promoted last year or the year before for failing to beat hearts or rangers it was because we still can't beat dumbarton three years on.

Stubbs and Lennon have obviously tried to get the message across with no avail.

Captain Trips
18-03-2017, 11:10 PM
Perhaps he can see if Mr Warburtons magic hat is about as it apparently works against Dumbarton.

steakbake
18-03-2017, 11:21 PM
These players are letting Lennon and we fans down far, far too often.
We are limping and spluttering our way to the finishing line and giving every encouragement to the chasing pack.
Lennon is understandably exasperated, but he has his hands tied in who he can play and he has to strike a balance between stick and carrot, praise and criticism.
I still think that we will be champions but only just.
He, like we, will feel nothing but an overwhelming sense of relief at that point.

Yeah, if/when we finally cross the line, my sense is that it won't feel like a celebration but more of a relief that's us finally out of this league.

Will still never forgive the players and managers who saw us down.

mcfly
18-03-2017, 11:26 PM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

You weren't at the game but feel you need to say our best player should be dropped.

What utter rubbish.

Perhaps you should attend some games and then will see that keatings, Stevenson, gray all need dropped way before John mcginn.

Words fail me at times with hibs fans thoughts

Baldy Foghorn
18-03-2017, 11:29 PM
You weren't at the game but feel you need to say our best player should be dropped.

What utter rubbish.

Perhaps you should attend some games and then will see that keatings, Stevenson, gray all need dropped way before John mcginn.

Words fail me at times with hibs fans thoughts

Is it just me or does SJM not look fully fit at present?

greenlex
18-03-2017, 11:31 PM
Is it just me or does SJM not look fully fit at present?

No you don't look particularly fit either to be fair.

J-C
18-03-2017, 11:39 PM
90% of these players couldn't get us up last year, forget the cup the league is our bread and butter and they failed last season and due to having no real threat they're making a real hash of it again this season.

I said in another thread that I think we'll need at least 5-6 players for next season, there's a good few just proving how average they really are.

matty_f
18-03-2017, 11:41 PM
No you don't look particularly fit either to be fair.

:hilarious

Baldy Foghorn
18-03-2017, 11:45 PM
No you don't look particularly fit either to be fair.

Ouch:greengrin

lucky
18-03-2017, 11:46 PM
For me, a lot of this feels a bit like Butchers team, as in they know they are getting emptied at the end of the season. I'd only keep from today's starting 11-Rocky, Lewis, McGregor, McGinn and Ambrose if we could

Jim44
18-03-2017, 11:46 PM
Indeed....How bad when we are talking about MORTON being our challengers

We are a very poor side. The fact that we are top of this crappy league is testament to the mediocrity of every other team in the league. Putting aside their present problems, Hearts and Sevco would have been out of sight by now. With a lot of luck, I think we will crawl over the line but major changes in the summer are needed for survival at the next level.

pacorosssco
18-03-2017, 11:47 PM
Is it just me or does SJM not look fully fit at present? or.. making sure he gets no injury in games??. Possible deal done move on. Just saying making point could be looking after his self.

greenlex
18-03-2017, 11:49 PM
or.. making sure he gets no injury in games??. Possible deal done move on. Just saying making point could be looking after his self.

Not a chance.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
18-03-2017, 11:54 PM
Is it just me or does SJM not look fully fit at present?

I thought mcginn had a pretty good game today.

I actually thought we werent that bad today, and but for a missed pen, some good saves and an uncharacteristically sloppy piece of defending for their second, we would have won well.

Sexond half in particular.

Ive definitely seen worse this season. Which i suppose is the concern...

AgentDaleCooper
18-03-2017, 11:56 PM
You weren't at the game but feel you need to say our best player should be dropped.

What utter rubbish.

Perhaps you should attend some games and then will see that keatings, Stevenson, gray all need dropped way before John mcginn.

Words fail me at times with hibs fans thoughts

season ticket holder mate, couldn't go 'cause of work.

this is a message board, so tone of voice isn't conveyed - my bad - but i expressed what i feel to be a valid point, SJM blows hot and cold, a bit like cummings earlier in the season, and i just wonder if he feels to comfortable about his name being on the team sheet and getting complacent. i completely understand that this might be nothing to do with today's result, it has just occurred to me on quite a few occasions that he tends to turn up for the big games a lot more than the ostensibly less 'big' ones (though obviously every game is a big game now!)

Baldy Foghorn
18-03-2017, 11:57 PM
I thought mcginn had a pretty good game today.

I actually thought we werent that bad today, and but for a missed pen, some good saves and an uncharacteristically sloppy piece of defending for their second, we would have won well.

Sexond half in particular.

Ive definitely seen worse this season. Which i suppose is the concern...

Better second half, but we were pedestrian and sloppy in first.

SJM maybe I just expect more with his quality. That said others in midfield were not great at all.

We should be winning these games at a canter, our form is concerning

Vini1875
19-03-2017, 12:07 AM
Yes we were slow and sloppy at times, but it is far easier to defend than create, which is one of the reasons we struggle against the lesser teams. The main reason for me is that we lack a proper goal threat without JC. Our strikers are so wasteful and easily pushed around.

Thought McGinn was full of effort today.

Big90inOz
19-03-2017, 02:22 AM
Dylan makes one pass to find a player where in the first half it was taking 2,3 or 4 passes to find the same player. Far too slow in the build up first half. We seem to prefer the "safe" option when passing which makes us slow and ponderous.

Swedish hibee
19-03-2017, 02:52 AM
Without Jason, we don't score- It's as simple as that.
It took an own goal & a goalie cock up to gift us the goals today.

jonny
19-03-2017, 05:16 AM
What a load of s***e. Without McGinn today we would have had nothing going forward from midfield ( certainly until Dylan came on).

What a suggestion to improve the team- drop McGinn!!!???
As you say, you weren't at the game today.
Jesus wept.

Absolutely this.
Most things going forward went through McGinn.
One of the 4/5 to get pass marks yesterday.

neil7908
19-03-2017, 06:15 AM
I still retain faith in Lennon but his recruitment, stretching over 2 transfer windows now has not been good overall.

I like Rocky and Commons was great when he was with us. Ambrose looks like another good signing but other than that the players he's brought in on permanent contracts haven't really improved us.

If Jason suffers a bad injury now and say misses the rest of the season I'm not sure we would have enough quality up front to go up.

Although we scored 2 yesterday they were on og and a bad mistake by their keeper, with a penalty miss thrown in as well.

I'm not sure what else he can do with the players currently available to him but he's also had 2 windows to address problems that we've had for years now and failed to do so.

We needed more options out wide, a goalscoring attacking midfielder and competition up front for Jason. Players like Humphreys, Shinnie and Holt have had there moments but I've been disappointed by their impact given the level we are competing at.

I still think we're going up but the longer the season goes on the more I'm looking at the squad and thinking we'll struggle next year unless we bring in 4-5 quality players and get rid of some squad players.

eastcoasthibby
19-03-2017, 07:17 AM
Better second half, but we were pedestrian and sloppy in first.

SJM maybe I just expect more with his quality. That said others in midfield were not great at all.

We should be winning these games at a canter, our form is concerning

The first half was awful without singling out players ..I actually point the finger at the team selection shape we should have been as wide as we could all the time to play with a back four was a complete misfit ..almost all the time Bartley was on the park we had 3 players around the centre circle ..having little involvement and making it easy for Dumbarton .! I find it really questionable that NL changed nothing during the first half and especially after they scored ..the ball went back and forward across the park ..taking too long to do apply any real pressure on their defenders ..when we went to 3,at back and mcgeouch came on we pressed the game and injected a quicker tempo ...a decision that should have happened at half time at the latest ..I will say it again Bartley is a passenger in 80% of the games in this league as he doesn't have the ability or passing skill to help breakdown a defence ...he is in my view solely a defensive midfielder who breaks up play gives nothing in a game played in the other teams half ..I think a back 3,was the call yesterday and stick Shinnie in middle with mcginn a better pairing for the way these teams play against us ...

Pretty Boy
19-03-2017, 07:33 AM
He's in a tough situation now.

Don't make a change or 3 and the accusation that 'players need dropped' will keep being made. Bring in say Crane, Martin and Graham and we lose next week and it will be 'crazy to make so many changes in such a big game'.

I really don't know what the answer is but it's strange that neither Stubbs nor Lennon seem.to have the ability to get results in games like yesterdays at this time of year. I'm leaning to it being something to do with the players but don't ask me what. Suggesting it's any of attitude, ability or effort just gets shouted down. Stands to reason it must be somehing though.

J-C
19-03-2017, 07:42 AM
He's in a tough situation now.

Don't make a change or 3 and the accusation that 'players need dropped' will keep being made. Bring in say Crane, Martin and Graham and we lose next week and it will be 'crazy to make so many changes in such a big game'.

I really don't know what the answer is but it's strange that neither Stubbs nor Lennon seem.to have the ability to get results in games like yesterdays at this time of year. I'm leaning to it being something to do with the players but don't ask me what. Suggesting it's any of attitude, ability or effort just gets shouted down. Stands to reason it must be somehing though.


Change Dumbarton for Dundee U or Hearts and we then have players who seem to raise their games, I'd suggest it's a mentality thing. I too can't put my finger on it but we always seem to struggle against the so called wee teams we're expected to beat easily, we only seem to jump into life when we go a goal down, so bloody frustrating.

Pedantic_Hibee
19-03-2017, 07:54 AM
I find it especially harrowing that after three years we still don't know the answer to breaking down a team that's sitting in. That's indefensible.

Correct me if I'm wrong and over simplifying things but...here's a novel idea. From kick off, run at them. If we lose it, get it back quickly again and run at them again. If Boyle for example gets past his man, it opens things up and the opposition lose shape and it gets the crowd going.

Saw it yesterday when our tails were up, the crowd got behind the players and we hemmed them in. When we revert back to ponderous passing it gives the opposition plenty time to get touch tight on our men and we end up passing it about before sending in an aimless cross into the box.

Attack, attack, attack. It's all fair and well having one of the best defensive records in Britain but when we can't score goals to get points then it's fruitless.

Yes, we might get caught on the counter a few times but then we might win the ball back on their counter and suddenly we are attacking with three or four of the opposition in our half trying to get back.

That first half yesterday was nothing short of disgusting.

Pretty Boy
19-03-2017, 08:01 AM
I find it especially harrowing that after three years we still don't know the answer to breaking down a team that's sitting in. That's indefensible.

Correct me if I'm wrong and over simplifying things but...here's a novel idea. From kick off, run at them. If we lose it, get it back quickly again and run at them again. If Boyle for example gets past his man, it opens things up and the opposition lose shape and it gets the crowd going.

Saw it yesterday when our tails were up, the crowd got behind the players and we hemmed them in. When we revert back to ponderous passing it gives the opposition plenty time to get touch tight on our men and we end up passing it about before sending in an aimless cross into the box.

Attack, attack, attack. It's all fair and well having one of the best defensive records in Britain but when we can't score goals to get points then it's fruitless.

Yes, we might get caught on the counter a few times but then we might win the ball back on their counter and suddenly we are attacking with three or four of the opposition in our half trying to get back.

That first half yesterday was nothing short of disgusting.

When a team comes to sit in then it's usually done in 'banks'. Dumbarton were a prime example yesterday, a bank of 4 at the back, a bank of 5 about 6 yards ahead of that then Nade dropping in as well.

By passing the ball about slowly in front of a team like that you make it relatively easy for them. To break that down you are looking for someone in their ranks to lose their discipline and lose their position and leave space to play in. The obvious solution is move the ball quickly and drag players about the park. We seem totally invapable of doing that.

Forza Fred
19-03-2017, 08:17 AM
Maybe he isn't learning either. He puts similar sides out, he has bollocked them but they don't get dropped so there are no consequences and we seem to have no game plan, urgency, desire and less and less organisation at the back. We are getting worse as the year progresses. I would see it as a joint responsibility between players and management and if he has pointed the finger again then I think he is doing it to deflect criticism as it certainly isn't doing any good. We have been worse against the lesser teams since his outburst after Raith. The players may need some stern words behind closed doors but criticising them in public again doesn't seem like a winning plan to me. We are paying Lennon to be a manager. Part of a managers job is to inspire, change behaviours and sort something when it is wrong. Blaming the players for not listening says as much about him as it does about them.

Agree with most of this.

Would also say that while not at all in the anti Lennon brigade, I always thought it was a risk employing a coach who has worked most of his coaching career with players of a greater quality who would me much more capable of changing their normal game to fit in with his instructions than Scottish championship players would/could.

It may just be that they simply can't 'learn' what he is trying to teach them.

J-C
19-03-2017, 08:20 AM
I find it especially harrowing that after three years we still don't know the answer to breaking down a team that's sitting in. That's indefensible.

Correct me if I'm wrong and over simplifying things but...here's a novel idea. From kick off, run at them. If we lose it, get it back quickly again and run at them again. If Boyle for example gets past his man, it opens things up and the opposition lose shape and it gets the crowd going.

Saw it yesterday when our tails were up, the crowd got behind the players and we hemmed them in. When we revert back to ponderous passing it gives the opposition plenty time to get touch tight on our men and we end up passing it about before sending in an aimless cross into the box.

Attack, attack, attack. It's all fair and well having one of the best defensive records in Britain but when we can't score goals to get points then it's fruitless.

Yes, we might get caught on the counter a few times but then we might win the ball back on their counter and suddenly we are attacking with three or four of the opposition in our half trying to get back.

That first half yesterday was nothing short of disgusting.


When a team comes to sit in then it's usually done in 'banks'. Dumbarton were a prime example yesterday, a bank of 4 at the back, a bank of 5 about 6 yards ahead of that then Nade dropping in as well.

By passing the ball about slowly in front of a team like that you make it relatively easy for them. To break that down you are looking for someone in their ranks to lose their discipline and lose their position and leave space to play in. The obvious solution is move the ball quickly and drag players about the park. We seem totally invapable of doing that.



It was noticeable that when Dylan came on the tempo immediately was upped, his first movement with the ball is to go forward, McGinn and Boyle are of the same mindset, Allan was another player who drove forward when he had the ball, as too was Commons when here.

Unlike Bartley, Shinnie and Fyvie who are all ponderous on the ball and slow the play down in possession.

Forza Fred
19-03-2017, 08:21 AM
We are a very poor side. The fact that we are top of this crappy league is testament to the mediocrity of every other team in the league. Putting aside their present problems, Hearts and Sevco would have been out of sight by now. With a lot of luck, I think we will crawl over the line but major changes in the summer are needed for survival at the next level.

:top marks

I still think we'll get up by the "Bradbury " method.

familyman
19-03-2017, 08:21 AM
Is it just me or does SJM not look fully fit at present?
I think they are fit ok but lack mental strength..The pace we started against Dundee United and Hearts was never on display yesterday..yet its 3points whoever or wherever we play..Lennon saying they do not learn ,well clearly they don't so HE needs to do something about it...maybe the wage structure needs looked at ..e.g. bonus for wins or whatever...Clearly there is still this BOY BAND
mentality. Do we have to hiccup our way up to the top league...we better watch out ,I cannot fathom out the teams attitude given all the disappointment of the past league campaigns....
Someone mentioned a YOGI type player , well we have always lacked a Pat Stanton type player and will need one if we go up, but YES a yogi type player this season was required...maybe NL could play one more time?
:flag:

RIP
19-03-2017, 08:26 AM
People management is the job of the team manager. Nobody else.

Northernhibee
19-03-2017, 08:31 AM
People management is the job of the team manager. Nobody else.

I like managers who take the pressure off their players in public by taking blame and responsibility, even if the message in the dressing room may be different. Blaming players in public can work if done very, very sparingly but the opposite is happening.

offshorehibby
19-03-2017, 08:33 AM
Should we be thinking of trying a sports psychologist. We know we have players who on their day are brilliant.

Northernhibee
19-03-2017, 08:40 AM
Should we be thinking of trying a sports psychologist. We know we have players who on their day are brilliant.

This. All the "we need a clear out" comments are way off the mark. This team in two seasons under Stubbs beat Dundee United, Aberdeen, Rangers, ICT, St Johnstone, Hearts. It's a good team that we're not getting the best out of.

We need to keep the core of this team together because managed properly it's a very good squad.

ALF TUPPER
19-03-2017, 08:45 AM
Yes we were slow and sloppy at times, but it is far easier to defend than create, which is one of the reasons we struggle against the lesser teams. The main reason for me is that we lack a proper goal threat without JC. Our strikers are so wasteful and easily pushed around.

Thought McGinn was full of effort today.

I agree Vini. For much of the game they had 11 defending. Even Nade was back.
We struggle against that tactic.

Lennywatch
I'm sat near the dugout and Lennon was going ballistic with them all - from Mariano's distribution, midfield not moving the ball fast enough to the strikers for .... well, not striking. Boyle was on the end of most of his rants. The man was raging.

green day
19-03-2017, 08:50 AM
I agree Vini. For much of the game they had 11 defending. Even Nade was back.
We struggle against that tactic.

Lennywatch
I'm sat near the dugout and Lennon was going ballistic with them all - from Mariano's distribution, midfield not moving the ball fast enough to the strikers for .... well, not striking. Boyle was on the end of most of his rants. The man was raging.

He was right to be raging. That was the best 11 we could have put out yesterday, and the played at half pace for 45 mins. We really miss JC as well, but shouldn't need him - FFS it's Dumbarton!

makaveli1875
19-03-2017, 08:50 AM
This. All the "we need a clear out" comments are way off the mark. This team in two seasons under Stubbs beat Dundee United, Aberdeen, Rangers, ICT, St Johnstone, Hearts. It's a good team that we're not getting the best out of.

We need to keep the core of this team together because managed properly it's a very good squad.


this team last season lost 8 league games including being humped off dumbarton twice , morton , queen of the south , alloa , raith . lost 4 games in a row almost exactly a year ago , blew the playoffs .

DaveF
19-03-2017, 08:53 AM
He was right to be raging. That was the best 11 we could have put out yesterday, and the played at half pace for 45 mins. We really miss JC as well, but shouldn't need him - FFS it's Dumbarton!

Surely Lennon sets out the tactics so our playing style is down to him.

I posted a stat on the PM board last night, which I'll repeat here.

When Hearts ran away with this league they scored 27 goals in the opening 30 minutes of games. We have scored 7.

CRAZYHIBBY
19-03-2017, 08:57 AM
It doesn't help when the opposition put 10 men in defence for the entire game

JimBHibees
19-03-2017, 09:02 AM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

Really? Thought he was our best player yesterday.

BSEJVT
19-03-2017, 09:02 AM
It doesn't help when the opposition put 10 men in defence for the entire game

I agree that it doesn't but for me the only answer is just to bombard them aerially and play off scraps

The tippy tappy stuff we had to endure first half was taking us nowhere

We need to play the game deep in their half and win flick on's free kicks whatever

Islington Hibs
19-03-2017, 09:04 AM
He's doing no worse than Stubbs so far. These players need to take a very large portion of the blame, it's been the same pish in the league for three seasons now.

He is doing way worse than Stubbs. Perhaps the defence is a bit better but outside a few good performances in the bigger games this has been turgid. Unlike Stubbs, who inherited a shambles, Lennon inherited a strong team with great confidence. If we had not beaten Hearts or Dundee Utd I think there would be big questions about him. I suspect he will get us up, but even that is not certain, but I remain to be convinced and although it would not happen would take Stubbs back any day.

ruthven_raiders
19-03-2017, 09:09 AM
I agree that it doesn't but for me the only answer is just to bombard them aerially and play off scraps

The tippy tappy stuff we had to endure first half was taking us nowhere

We need to play the game deep in their half and win flick on's free kicks whatever

Absolutely,it worked when we started doing that later in the second half, we just need to get that ball in earlier and quickly against defensive teams, we aren't learning

southern hibby
19-03-2017, 09:24 AM
I may be totally barking up wrong tree here but certain players to me only raise their game against big teams or when TV cameras are about. This makes me believe that certain players know that they are not going with Hibs if and when they get promoted.

I don't think for one minute NL would tell the players he's not taking them with him when promoted BUT let's say he's started asking agents to look out for a certain player in a certain position then the players we have would probably hear about it through their own agents. This makes me believe they're thinking we'll if Hibs stay down I'll stay because they'll struggle to get good
Players who want to come to the championship after 3 years in this league.

Again not saying this is happening but there is definitely something wrong with us managing to take care of smaller teams. Or alternatively we've got into a small team mentality from the players who only raise their game against bigger opposition, like Dumbarton do against us.

GGTTH

wookie70
19-03-2017, 09:29 AM
Lennywatch
I'm sat near the dugout and Lennon was going ballistic with them all - from Mariano's distribution, midfield not moving the ball fast enough to the strikers for .... well, not striking. Boyle was on the end of most of his rants. The man was raging.

On at least two occasions I saw Lennon gesturing to calm down to the pitch. I have no idea if it was to an individual player or just in general but I thought it was the worst message he could sent. The Nade punch looked like it woke us up and what we needed to be doing yesterday was to be tearing in and getting the ball forward early. I said to my mate what is the point of passing it about for 3 minutes and then humping it into the box where they have 8 men to our 3. If the end result is a hump anyway do it early and when the opposition are not set. There is no doubt the players have to take responsibility but what about Lennon's game plan. Does anyone know what it is.

Speedway
19-03-2017, 09:31 AM
3 point plan

- make all opposing teams wear maroon

- start each game at 1-0 to the other team

- fine everyone a weeks wages if they don't score in the first five minutes, including Tam McCourt.

That 3 point plan should ensure that we can plan for three points most weeks.

makaveli1875
19-03-2017, 09:32 AM
He is doing way worse than Stubbs. .

i dont buy that , here is last seasons results from the same period of the season


24 February 2016Championship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Scottish_Championship)
Hibernian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
0–3
Greenock Morton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenock_Morton_F.C.)

[show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]
Easter Road (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road)





27 February 2016Championship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Scottish_Championship)
Dumbarton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton_F.C.)
3–2
Hibernian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

[show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]
Dumbarton Football Stadium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton_Football_Stadium)





1 March 2016Championship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015-16_Scottish_Championship)
Queen of the South (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_South_F.C.)
1–0
Hiberni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

[show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]
Palmerston Park (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmerston_Park)





19 March 2016Championship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015-16_Scottish_Championship)
Raith Rovers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raith_Rovers_F.C.)
2–1
Hibernian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

Speedway
19-03-2017, 09:34 AM
On at least two occasions I saw Lennon gesturing to calm down to the pitch. I have no idea if it was to an individual player or just in general but I thought it was the worst message he could sent. The Nade punch looked like it woke us up and what we needed to be doing yesterday was to be tearing in and getting the ball forward early. I said to my mate what is the point of passing it about for 3 minutes and then humping it into the box where they have 8 men to our 3. If the end result is a hump anyway do it early and when the opposition are not set. There is no doubt the players have to take responsibility but what about Lennon's game plan. Does anyone know what it is.

I know that Lennon wasn't the only one going mental at squirrel.

Ambrose was screaming at him to stop standing on the touchline and make a run.

Heisenberg
19-03-2017, 09:40 AM
He is doing way worse than Stubbs. Perhaps the defence is a bit better but outside a few good performances in the bigger games this has been turgid. Unlike Stubbs, who inherited a shambles, Lennon inherited a strong team with great confidence. If we had not beaten Hearts or Dundee Utd I think there would be big questions about him. I suspect he will get us up, but even that is not certain, but I remain to be convinced and although it would not happen would take Stubbs back any day.

He's not doing any worse at all. We play exactly the same tippy tappy slow build up against these teams as we did under Stubbs. I'm pretty sure we are on the same points as we were last season at this stage too. Of course the cup win clouds people's opinion of Stubbs and there's no doubt he's a legend for winning it but let's not hide from the fact that we were rancid in the league under him at the same stage last season. The inherited a shambles excuses doesn't work for last season either. We started poorly and finished even worse.

Lennon simply has to get us promoted or he gets sacked. Let's not pretend Stubbs would've still been in the job had we lost the cup final either, he failed in the league too. We've got to figure out a way of beating teams who play like Dumbarton did yesterday, Falkirk are coming to town next and they are the masters at that kind of game in this league. I have little confidence in this squad getting us over the line.

green day
19-03-2017, 09:46 AM
Surely Lennon sets out the tactics so our playing style is down to him.

I posted a stat on the PM board last night, which I'll repeat here.

When Hearts ran away with this league they scored 27 goals in the opening 30 minutes of games. We have scored 7.

I get that, but he himself said the tempo etc was not what they talked about pre match. That team should have run Dumbarton ragged.

Have to say SJM was hot and cold, too defensive minded (og apart) until Dylan came on and the midfield looked better.

Can only hope for improvement against Falkirk.

ben johnson
19-03-2017, 09:47 AM
Ouch:greengrin

Lets see how SJM gets on taking names on a moving bus.

Billy Mac
19-03-2017, 10:05 AM
Players have proven over nearly 3 seasons now that they're not "champions". Excellent in knockout tournaments but distinctly lacking in powering through a league campaign, which means getting up for it against trams like Dumbarton and Ayr even if it's not "glamorous" and the crowd is a bit lethargic or whatever.
MrKeatings?Totally
disinterested and he takes the penalty.Odd.He put more into the last home appearance for 10 minutes than he did today.We need someone also to unlock the teams that are getting so many people behind the ball at Easter Road. Stuttering towards things but absolutely no complaints about Neil Lennon, he is doing his best and great passion.

Jpdhfc
19-03-2017, 10:10 AM
Well he can't use Jason as a scapegoat for that one now can he? On a more serious note I'm concerned that our home form is brutal and the majority of our remaining games are at home. That said I still think we'll win the league but Morton just did us a huge favour there tonight.
Think Morton did themselves a Hugh favour

JAckaHIBEE
19-03-2017, 10:12 AM
Hi all, first post on here having read for years (hibs fan from age 5 and season in the east etc) :flag:


For me the problem is a lot simpler than we all like to make out. This is a tricky league but tactically, if we run at teams for the first 20 mins and get an early goal we will win the majority of games.


The problem is that our players don't respond when there is no big pre game build up. This is great for the cup and games agains Dundee Utd but not against Dumbarton etc. The club's media communications even shows a lack of interest (interviews aren't as well publicised, twitter is pretty dead until 2pm). I know it's tough to make something out of a run of the mill league game but yesterday was potentially huge for us. The club and players needs to emphasise the meaning of the next 3 or 4 games in everything they do and create more of a build up. I think that then we'll see more enthusiasm in the performances. Thoughts?

BSEJVT
19-03-2017, 10:14 AM
Its easy to forget that time and space can make average footballers look good as they have time to control it and look up and pick their options.

This isn't afforded to us much at home as when we have the ball we have 35 -40 yards to play with it in and more often than not the defenders have something like an 10-7 advantage

I was watching the players pass the ball around before the game and although the pitch looks okay it is soft and bumpy as hell and the ball was taking some bizarre bounces.

I think there is absolutely nothing to gain in tippy tappy stuff in such circumstances and unless you are a big unit like Holt the defender is going to come through you and take the ball 9 times out of 10 if it is played into with your back to goal.

I would play all 3 of Holt Graham & Cummings

Holt does a great deal of his work outside the box and that is another problem as often when the ball goes in there aren't enough bodies.

Against the teams with limited offensive ambitions I would play a back 3 and a midfield of Boyle, McGinn, Fyvie & Stevenson

I wouldn't play Shinnie as I don't believe such games or the plethora of tackling that goes on in our current formation in them suit him at all.

Shinnie plays better in games with a bit of space to look up and run into.

Baldy Foghorn
19-03-2017, 11:24 AM
Lets see how SJM gets on taking names on a moving bus.

:greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
19-03-2017, 11:27 AM
I may be totally barking up wrong tree here but certain players to me only raise their game against big teams or when TV cameras are about. This makes me believe that certain players know that they are not going with Hibs if and when they get promoted.

I don't think for one minute NL would tell the players he's not taking them with him when promoted BUT let's say he's started asking agents to look out for a certain player in a certain position then the players we have would probably hear about it through their own agents. This makes me believe they're thinking we'll if Hibs stay down I'll stay because they'll struggle to get good
Players who want to come to the championship after 3 years in this league.

Again not saying this is happening but there is definitely something wrong with us managing to take care of smaller teams. Or alternatively we've got into a small team mentality from the players who only raise their game against bigger opposition, like Dumbarton do against us.

GGTTH

Colin,

Really fed up with us at moment. There seems to be two mentalities for league and cup.

Brilliant in Cup, high tempo, pressing, chasing, harrying etc. Sluggish, lethargic and wasteful in league.

I am as frustrated as every one else, but these players are letting NL and more importantly the fans down. They are PROFESSIONALS and should have the same mindset for EVERY game.

Fed up with all the talk from players, they just consistently under perform (apart from cup), and its really beginning to get on my thrupennies

southern hibby
19-03-2017, 11:38 AM
Colin,

Really fed up with us at moment. There seems to be two mentalities for league and cup.

Brilliant in Cup, high tempo, pressing, chasing, harrying etc. Sluggish, lethargic and wasteful in league.

I am as frustrated as every one else, but these players are letting NL and more importantly the fans down. They are PROFESSIONALS and should have the same mindset for EVERY game.

Fed up with all the talk from players, they just consistently under perform (apart from cup), and its really beginning to get on my thrupennies

BF, well said. To me probably sums up feelings of most fans. Do think we'll go up but as always it's the Hibs way to make it so bloody hard for ourselves.

GGTTH.

P.S. I'll have your thruppence if you don't want it all help the retirement fund

J-C
19-03-2017, 11:58 AM
Hi all, first post on here having read for years (hibs fan from age 5 and season in the east etc) :flag:


For me the problem is a lot simpler than we all like to make out. This is a tricky league but tactically, if we run at teams for the first 20 mins and get an early goal we will win the majority of games.


The problem is that our players don't respond when there is no big pre game build up. This is great for the cup and games agains Dundee Utd but not against Dumbarton etc. The club's media communications even shows a lack of interest (interviews aren't as well publicised, twitter is pretty dead until 2pm). I know it's tough to make something out of a run of the mill league game but yesterday was potentially huge for us. The club and players needs to emphasise the meaning of the next 3 or 4 games in everything they do and create more of a build up. I think that then we'll see more enthusiasm in the performances. Thoughts?


I said the same yesterday, the crowd seemed flat as did the players for the 1st 30 mins, they just don't fly out of the traps attacking teams from the go, if they did that the crowd would be loud from the off, instead it was like being at a seance it was that quiet.

Baldy Foghorn
19-03-2017, 12:01 PM
I said the same yesterday, the crowd seemed flat as did the players for the 1st 30 mins, they just don't fly out of the traps attacking teams from the go, if they did that the crowd would be loud from the off, instead it was like being at a seance it was that quiet.

It's chicken or egg.....

Do we wait until something happens, or do we generate an atmosphere pre kick off like ultras in foreign countries?

Whatever the solution is, I'm damned if I know

J-C
19-03-2017, 12:04 PM
It's chicken or egg.....

Do we wait until something happens, or do we generate an atmosphere pre kick off like ultras in foreign countries?

Whatever the solution is, I'm damned if I know



I sit in the east and didn't hear the drum or the singing section in the first 20 mins, these guys are meant to try and stir up some atmosphere, would also help is the players started off at a high tempo from the off and get the fans excited about something, it looks like they have to go goal down before they jump into life.

Baldy Foghorn
19-03-2017, 12:10 PM
I sit in the east and didn't hear the drum or the singing section in the first 20 mins, these guys are meant to try and stir up some atmosphere, would also help is the players started off at a high tempo from the off and get the fans excited about something, it looks like they have to go goal down before they jump into life.

Can't argue:agree:

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
19-03-2017, 12:17 PM
Better second half, but we were pedestrian and sloppy in first.

SJM maybe I just expect more with his quality. That said others in midfield were not great at all.

We should be winning these games at a canter, our form is concerning

I agree about McGinn, i think he should affecting games more than he does.

blackpoolhibs
19-03-2017, 12:19 PM
I sit in the east and didn't hear the drum or the singing section in the first 20 mins, these guys are meant to try and stir up some atmosphere, would also help is the players started off at a high tempo from the off and get the fans excited about something, it looks like they have to go goal down before they jump into life.

3 seasons of playing crap like Dumbarton, drawing and losing to them would drain the enthusiasm out of most fans.

Since90+2
19-03-2017, 12:20 PM
Lennon needs to realise that the buck ultimately stops with him and if the players attitude is not correct that it's up to him to address it. Getting sick of him constantly shifting the blame away from himself.

The fact we are about 8 games from the end of the season and involved in a Championship title struggle with Falkirk and Morton is a disgrace.

3pm
19-03-2017, 12:22 PM
Lennon is as responsible as the players.

greenlex
19-03-2017, 12:29 PM
Lennon needs to realise that the buck ultimately stops with him and if the players attitude is not correct that it's up to him to address it. Getting sick of him constantly shifting the blame away from himself.

The fact we are about 8 games from the end of the season and involved in a Championship title struggle with Falkirk and Morton is a disgrace.
Its not really a struggle tho is it? We are clear at the top. Home firm is concerning for sure but if we had seen the league table now with the games left when we were half way through the season we would be OK with it. Home form will improve but it needs to start next week.

makaveli1875
19-03-2017, 12:33 PM
Lennon needs to realise that the buck ultimately stops with him and if the players attitude is not correct that it's up to him to address it. Getting sick of him constantly shifting the blame away from himself.

The fact we are about 8 games from the end of the season and involved in a Championship title struggle with Falkirk and Morton is a disgrace.

falkirk who finished above us last season and beat us in the playoffs

Since90+2
19-03-2017, 12:38 PM
falkirk who finished above us last season and beat us in the playoffs

Hibs as a club should be aiming to finish comfortably above Falkirk. I don't care about last season , that's done and dusted the only concern at the moment is the horrendous form under Lennon's watch.

Lago
19-03-2017, 01:02 PM
Hibs as a club should be aiming to finish comfortably above Falkirk. I don't care about last season , that's done and dusted the only concern at the moment is the horrendous form under Lennon's watch.
You may not care about last season, but many on here are using the last season under Stubbs as a bench mark of excellence, it wasn't. I also find it ridiculous that professional footballerscan't raise their game & put in effort on the park, it can't be up to the manager alone to ensure they run, compete, harry the oposition, where is their personal pride, struggling against oposition from the lower end of the 2nd tier of Scottish football, suggests arrogance & complacency in my book.

Super_JMcGinn
19-03-2017, 01:26 PM
You may not care about last season, but many on here are using the last season under Stubbs as a bench mark of excellence, it wasn't. I also find it ridiculous that professional footballerscan't raise their game & put in effort on the park, it can't be up to the manager alone to ensure they run, compete, harry the oposition, where is their personal pride, struggling against oposition from the lower end of the 2nd tier of Scottish football, suggests arrogance & complacency in my book.


Last season we got to 2 cup finals and had a backlog of fixtures due to that and International fixtures, but no one is suggesting we under performed in the league, we should have made the cup final play off at least. In the same token no one can seriously suggest that Lennon is doing any better than Stubbs did what with the reputation he came with as a so called winner and his experience in management.You seem to disregard the fact that Stubbs was a rookie in his first appointment as a coach.

You seem to put the blame firmly at the players feet when it is not unreasonable to suggest it lies elsewhere.

NORTHERNHIBBY
19-03-2017, 01:30 PM
Hopefully in the SPL all the games will be viewed as big ones as they are the kind of games that the team get motivated for.

Super_JMcGinn
19-03-2017, 01:32 PM
Morton done us a huge favour? They closed the gap on us and are looking increasingly likely to be our closest rivals for the league! Beat us and win their game in hand they are 1 point behind and we've still to play them at Capiellow where they are unbeaten for over a year. Strange favour.

In my humble opinion Falkirk posed a bigger threat than Morton, we have to play them twice and I cannot see them beating us whereas we all know our home form against anyone right now is bad let alone against Falkirk.

Lago
19-03-2017, 01:43 PM
Last season we got to 2 cup finals and had a backlog of fixtures due to that and International fixtures, but no one is suggesting we under performed in the league, we should have made the cup final play off at least. In the same token no one can seriously suggest that Lennon is doing any better than Stubbs did what with the reputation he came with as a so called winner and his experience in management.You seem to disregard the fact that Stubbs was a rookie in his first appointment as a coach.

You seem to put the blame firmly at the players feet when it is not unreasonable to suggest it lies elsewhere.
To suggest, as you seem to be doing, that what we have at ER is purely a managerial problem, with no blame attached to a number of fairly highly paid professional footballers is wrong, frankly I think we did underperform in the league last season with many an incipit performance.

makaveli1875
19-03-2017, 01:43 PM
Last season we got to 2 cup finals and had a backlog of fixtures due to that and International fixtures, but no one is suggesting we under performed in the league, we should have made the cup final play off at least. In the same token no one can seriously suggest that Lennon is doing any better than Stubbs did what with the reputation he came with as a so called winner and his experience in management.You seem to disregard the fact that Stubbs was a rookie in his first appointment as a coach.

You seem to put the blame firmly at the players feet when it is not unreasonable to suggest it lies elsewhere.

this time last season we had lost 6 games (4 in a row) and were 2nd in the league . we have currently lost 3 and sit top of the league . That says to me we are doing slightly better under lennon this season .

erin go bragh
19-03-2017, 01:56 PM
Hibs as a club should be aiming to finish comfortably above Falkirk. I don't care about last season , that's done and dusted the only concern at the moment is the horrendous form under Lennon's watch.

We're seven points above them ,with a game in hand . I'd say that's quite comfortably above them .
Win our next two home games and the league will be within our grasp.

stantonsboots
19-03-2017, 02:03 PM
We certainly lack a leader on the park as no one seems to take responsibility and drive the team on.I said at the match, next season I'd make Darren McGregor or SJM captain?

KWJ
19-03-2017, 02:04 PM
The players perform well when underdogs but don't have the bottle to cope when they are favourites.Big clear out when we get promoted.

I for one would be gutted if we had a big clearout after promotion. Some of the fringe players aye but I'd like to see as many of our best players as possible as they aren't going to be easy replaced. Premiership is swimming in dross who give plenty effort.

scooby
19-03-2017, 02:35 PM
Perhaps with Lennon there is more stick than carrot and the players either don't like it or are not responding to it. I didn't want Lennon when he was linked with the club but I have warmed to him. One of the things that worries me is perhaps a lot of the players think that if we go up I will be looking for a new club and that is why their performances in a lot of games are poor.

Someone of the players should be worried, far too inconsistent.

BoomtownHibees
19-03-2017, 02:43 PM
this time last season we had lost 6 games (4 in a row) and were 2nd in the league . we have currently lost 3 and sit top of the league . That says to me we are doing slightly better under lennon this season .

We are on the same points as this stage last year without The Rangers in it. No real improvement imo

Smartie
19-03-2017, 02:51 PM
We have too many undroppable players, ins spite of how badly they might be playing.

Fringe players have failed to make an impact when brought into the side too many times.

We need a clear out of fringe players and to bring in players who will properly challenge for places in the first team.

greenlex
19-03-2017, 02:55 PM
We are on the same points as this stage last year without The Rangers in it. No real improvement imo

Having the same points with the head to heads against Rangers suggests thathas no bearing on this season at all.

BoomtownHibees
19-03-2017, 02:59 PM
Having the same points with the head to heads against Rangers suggests thathas no bearing on this season at all.

Still no improvement points wise though is there? With what I would class as a weaker league

greenlex
19-03-2017, 03:07 PM
Still no improvement points wise though is there? With what I would class as a weaker league

No but this time last year we had just lost 4 on the bounce? That just simply isn't going to happen this season. Whether we can convert draws into wins is another matter but I don't think we can compare till the seasons end.

J-C
19-03-2017, 03:50 PM
We have too many undroppable players, ins spite of how badly they might be playing.

Fringe players have failed to make an impact when brought into the side too many times.

We need a clear out of fringe players and to bring in players who will properly challenge for places in the first team.



Except I'd suggest Martin who has looked good every time he's played, I can't for the life of me understand why Lennon doesn't give him more game time.

Smartie
19-03-2017, 03:53 PM
Except I'd suggest Martin who has looked good every time he's played, I can't for the life of me understand why Lennon doesn't give him more game time.

I agree entirely.

And I'd have liked to have seen more of Crane.

SRHibs
19-03-2017, 03:56 PM
It's not ideal, but we need to relax. If we beat Falkirk on Saturday, which as it's a big game is almost a certainty, and then beat Morton in the first tie, then the league is essentially won. Then we can have a lovely big clear out of all the championship dross in our squad.

J-C
19-03-2017, 04:03 PM
I agree entirely.

And I'd have liked to have seen more of Crane.


I suggested at the game that Stevenson could've slotted into left midfield allowing Crane to play, this would also let Shinnie play more attack midfield where he's a better influence on the team.

lord bunberry
19-03-2017, 05:07 PM
We failed to strengthen properly in the January window and we're now suffering from that with players who seem to think they're undropable.
The next 2 games are must win and Lennon and the players need to sit down and find a way to win them.

greenlex
19-03-2017, 05:12 PM
We failed to strengthen properly in the January window and we're now suffering from that with players who seem to think they're undropable.
The next 2 games are must win and Lennon and the players need to sit down and find a way to win them. Agree about the strengthening but disagree about players thinking they are undroppable. Cant even think of two that would think that.
If you mean we should be dropping McGinn as some are saying you are as daft as them. Whilst certainly not undroppable the team would almost certainly be poorer without him right now.

AlbertK86
19-03-2017, 05:18 PM
wasn't at the game today, but we need to drop mcginn IMO, when he wants to be he's incredible, but sometimes he looks like he thinks he doesn't have to try

Drunk or Fishing?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

lord bunberry
19-03-2017, 05:22 PM
Agree about the strengthening but disagree about players thinking they are undroppable. Can even think of two that would think that.
If you mean we should be dropping McGinn as some are saying you are as daft as them. Whilst certainly not undroppable the team would almost certainly be poorer without him right now.
I don't think we should be dropping sjm. I just don't feel there's enough pressure being applied by the fringe players. A couple of extra players in during the January window might have introduced a bit more competition for places. I think our team is by a considerable distance the best in the league, but we're not showing it every week. I'm unsure whether it's the manager or the players that are to blame, either way it needs to addressed to avoid the unthinkable.

cabbageandribs1875
19-03-2017, 05:34 PM
I may be totally barking up wrong tree here but certain players to me only raise their game against big teams or when TV cameras are about. This makes me believe that certain players know that they are not going with Hibs if and when they get promoted.

I don't think for one minute NL would tell the players he's not taking them with him when promoted BUT let's say he's started asking agents to look out for a certain player in a certain position then the players we have would probably hear about it through their own agents. This makes me believe they're thinking we'll if Hibs stay down I'll stay because they'll struggle to get good
Players who want to come to the championship after 3 years in this league.

Again not saying this is happening but there is definitely something wrong with us managing to take care of smaller teams. Or alternatively we've got into a small team mentality from the players who only raise their game against bigger opposition, like Dumbarton do against us.

GGTTH


that's been my thinking for the last several games :greengrin some have realised we were in danger of getting just too far ahead of the other teams and were in serious danger of winning this damn league, then some will be aware they will be job hunting :agree: have any of our players got heavy gambling debts :greengrin

Phil MaGlass
19-03-2017, 05:35 PM
I dont get it, surely our players want to be part of a winning team, playing good football, earning promotion and earning a crack at the premier or even putting themselves in the shop window, I really, really dont get how we can be putting in such mediocre and uninspiring performances against teams with a fraction of our budget and teams that have no significant decent/top players. Dare I say it could be the manager to blame?

Alex Trager
19-03-2017, 05:59 PM
Perhaps with Lennon there is more stick than carrot and the players either don't like it or are not responding to it. I didn't want Lennon when he was linked with the club but I have warmed to him. One of the things that worries me is perhaps a lot of the players think that if we go up I will be looking for a new club and that is why their performances in a lot of games are poor.

Why would they care if you are looking for a new club?



;)

JimBHibees
20-03-2017, 09:41 AM
Agree about the strengthening but disagree about players thinking they are undroppable. Cant even think of two that would think that.
If you mean we should be dropping McGinn as some are saying you are as daft as them. Whilst certainly not undroppable the team would almost certainly be poorer without him right now.

Full backs particularly Lewis IMO his crossing isnt great and maybe Crane might have been given a run even last 20 or so.

Bristolhibby
20-03-2017, 09:55 AM
Surely Lennon sets out the tactics so our playing style is down to him.

I posted a stat on the PM board last night, which I'll repeat here.

When Hearts ran away with this league they scored 27 goals in the opening 30 minutes of games. We have scored 7.

That last stat is telling. And it rips my knitting. We need to be going full tilt from the off. Blitzkreig against teams. They should be two nil down before they know what's going on, then if necesssary take the foot off the gas a wee bit.

J

ancient hibee
20-03-2017, 10:36 AM
Forster's given it away in today's Scotsman hasn't he.The players only turn it on in a big match atmosphere.Hardly news but indicative of why there'll be a clear out and he'll be one of the first on the bus.

Steve20
20-03-2017, 10:46 AM
If we beat Falkirk on Saturday and avoid defeat to Morton next Wednesday, then I think that'll be enough to see off the challenge. Easier said than done considering our home performances are so poor, but it's about time we gave Falkirk a doing at Easter Road.

Smartie
20-03-2017, 11:08 AM
Forster's given it away in today's Scotsman hasn't he.The players only turn it on in a big match atmosphere.Hardly news but indicative of why there'll be a clear out and he'll be one of the first on the bus.

Forster isn't the first name who springs to mind as being guilty of this, so it would be harsh to single him out and say he'd be one of the first on the bus.

He's hardly played this season, and when he has he has done well.

There are many higher profile players who have gone missing at times.

I think it's just unlucky that Jordon was the one talking to the press. I'm fairly encouraged that at least the players appear to be acknowledging the problem and admit that it might just be the case.

The Green Goblin
20-03-2017, 11:17 AM
Hi all, first post on here having read for years (hibs fan from age 5 and season in the east etc) :flag:


For me the problem is a lot simpler than we all like to make out. This is a tricky league but tactically, if we run at teams for the first 20 mins and get an early goal we will win the majority of games.


The problem is that our players don't respond when there is no big pre game build up. This is great for the cup and games agains Dundee Utd but not against Dumbarton etc. The club's media communications even shows a lack of interest (interviews aren't as well publicised, twitter is pretty dead until 2pm). I know it's tough to make something out of a run of the mill league game but yesterday was potentially huge for us. The club and players needs to emphasise the meaning of the next 3 or 4 games in everything they do and create more of a build up. I think that then we'll see more enthusiasm in the performances. Thoughts?

Welcome to the forum. :aok: I would have to disagree with the bit in bold, tbh. Hibs TV covers everything going on at the club, plus the games really extensively.

cmcd
20-03-2017, 03:22 PM
Lennon needs to realise that the buck ultimately stops with him and if the players attitude is not correct that it's up to him to address it. Getting sick of him constantly shifting the blame away from himself.

The fact we are about 8 games from the end of the season and involved in a Championship title struggle with Falkirk and Morton is a disgrace.
No he doesn't constantly shift the blame to the players .I remember him saying on the radio that perhaps he should be looking at himself. At the end of the day a manager can only do so much. When the players are on the pitch it's down to them to follow instructions . As a previous poster said he was on the sidelines screaming instructions because players were not following instructions

BSEJVT
20-03-2017, 05:26 PM
His Hibs TV interview shows a guy at the end of his rope with them, he could best be described as extremely frustrated and annoyed and IMO he has every right to be.

The 2 goals were both easily avoidable

Bartley is stupid for the penalty

Efe must do better to pressure Nade's header, McGregor is ball watching and nowhere Gray is fast asleep and credit to their player he puts the shot in the only place Marciano cant save it and at the only height.

On a slightly worrying note re Marciano though that's 2 shots in 3 games he has been beaten with from outside the box that I think he has had a decent view of and he hasn't got near to laying a glove on either.

I cant make up my mind if he should do better at either or both, but you can rest assured that if that had been Oxley in goals the gallows would be getting built by now

Smartie
20-03-2017, 05:35 PM
His Hibs TV interview shows a guy at the end of his rope with them, he could best be described as extremely frustrated and annoyed and IMO he has every right to be.

The 2 goals were both easily avoidable

Bartley is stupid for the penalty

Efe must do better to pressure Nade's header, McGregor is ball watching and nowhere Gray is fast asleep and credit to their player he puts the shot in the only place Marciano cant save it and at the only height.

On a slightly worrying note re Marciano though that's 2 shots in 3 games he has been beaten with from outside the box that I think he has had a decent view of and he hasn't got near to laying a glove on either.

I cant make up my mind if he should do better at either or both, but you can rest assured that if that had been Oxley in goals the gallows would be getting built by now

I thought they were both absolute rakers and I don't think any goalkeeper in the world would have been able to lay a glove on either of them.

greenlex
20-03-2017, 05:51 PM
I thought they were both absolute rakers and I don't think any goalkeeper in the world would have been able to lay a glove on either of them.
:agree: 100% In the case of the Ayr one I reckon two keepers in goal wouldnt have got near it.

BSEJVT
20-03-2017, 05:54 PM
I thought they were both absolute rakers and I don't think any goalkeeper in the world would have been able to lay a glove on either of them.

You may well be right I still cant decide

It just seems unlikely that the last 2 shots he has faced have been unsaveable

Statistically that is very unlikely not least because of the level we are playing at and with respect the quality of the opposition players having the shots

The Green Goblin
20-03-2017, 06:11 PM
:agree: 100% In the case of the Ayr one I reckon two keepers in goal wouldnt have got near it.

Yup. I had a perfect view of it from behind the shot and nobody alive could have stopped it.

Gettin' Auld
20-03-2017, 06:27 PM
When a team comes to sit in then it's usually done in 'banks'. Dumbarton were a prime example yesterday, a bank of 4 at the back, a bank of 5 about 6 yards ahead of that then Nade dropping in as well.

By passing the ball about slowly in front of a team like that you make it relatively easy for them. To break that down you are looking for someone in their ranks to lose their discipline and lose their position and leave space to play in. The obvious solution is move the ball quickly and drag players about the park. We seem totally invapable of doing that.

Correct...........

Lots of movement, crisp passing and 1, 2's. Move the ball around quickly and have pace out wide. Pull the defenders all over the place. Sometimes we'll lose the ball, but then we have to press as a team and win it back, then go at them again.

When we get free kicks, corners, or even throw ins, take them quickly and don't give the other team time to get organised. We're as slow as **** and give them all the time they want at present. Plus, move around and look the ball when we get a throw in. Don't just stand there and force the ball to be thrown down the line in hope.

Oh and run at the defenders in the box. Don't pass the ball around there, ****in' run at the defender as the chances are he'll be too scared to tackle you anyway. One slight mistake and we get a penalty from it.

One defensive mid in front of a back three is all we need as most of the time the other team are playing with hee haw up front anyway.

If we concede a corner, keep two or three guys further up the pitch as that gives our defenders less opponents to deal with as those guys need to be marked. Stick a player on a post and don't dare even contemplate zonal marker, just mark your man and make sure you win the ball if it comes your way.

If you get sight of goal, hit the ****in' ball. None of the keepers are world beaters who will save everything that comes their way. They're playing in the Championship for a reason. Even if we only score from one shot out of ten, it's worth it.

There's lots that Lennon can try. That's a couple of seasons of tippy tappy pish now and if we're lucky we should just about stumble over the winning line. We should be pishing all over the lesser teams in this league. Many of them are part-time for **** sake and no disrespect intended, but taking three points from a mob like Dumbarton at Easter Rd should be a formality. Our record at home is pretty poor, a place where we should be steamrollering teams.

What do i know though, i'm just a supporter.......

J-C
20-03-2017, 07:14 PM
His Hibs TV interview shows a guy at the end of his rope with them, he could best be described as extremely frustrated and annoyed and IMO he has every right to be.




You have to worry as to why the players are not following instructions, is it because they're just not good enough to do the basics being asked or more worryingly they're not playing for the manager and simply ignoring his instructions, whatever it is it's beginning to be really annoying.

At the moment I can see a pretty big clear out when we get promoted.

JAckaHIBEE
20-03-2017, 11:13 PM
Welcome to the forum. :aok: I would have to disagree with the bit in bold, tbh. Hibs TV covers everything going on at the club, plus the games really extensively.

Absolutely agree re Hibs TV. Was studying abroad last year and watched every home game from Malaysia so no complaints about Hibs TV from me. It's the general tone of communication (Twitter, Facebook, website) that gets me. Despite this being the big run in, there are few ticket updates etc and a general lack of emphasis on these games. Had it been a Scottish Cup game there would be much more going on I feel.

Again, I posted these thoughts prior to Forster's interview and it's just a little concerning to me that the team can't go through Dumbarton when it really matters.

BSEJVT
21-03-2017, 07:52 AM
You have to worry as to why the players are not following instructions, is it because they're just not good enough to do the basics being asked or more worryingly they're not playing for the manager and simply ignoring his instructions, whatever it is it's beginning to be really annoying.

At the moment I can see a pretty big clear out when we get promoted.

Personally I believe that its the former, they are just not good enough

Its nice and easy to keep the ball playing against opponents who are happy to let you have it in areas you cant hurt them.

You can show boat around and look like a player very easily in such circumstances.

What we need is someone driving them on and forwards, we have that is SJM whose effort cannot be questioned but IMO who has played poorly for much of the season by his standards.

IMO the much maligned Gary Caldwell was excellent at this in Mowbray's team

We need players brave enough and mentally strong enough to accept that it might not work and they might get a bit stick when it doesn't but who are prepared to keep banging on the door

Boyle is happy to do this but can be ineffectual.

IMO Shinnie retreats into his shell too often to make the most of his talent and seems easily discouraged after a few failed attempts

I don't think I will ever understand why we play Bartley in such games

Gray has been awful for months

Lewis can cross the ball but only if he has the space to do so, his chances of beating a player to put in a cross or bending a cross round one in front of him are nil.

We also don't score nearly enough headers, the amount of crosses we put into the box from corners free kicks and open play that we don't even work the keeper from are incredible

ancient hibee
21-03-2017, 02:03 PM
The death of Alex Young reminded me of a derby at Tynie.The ball went out for a shy and Young grabbed it to take it.From about 40 yards away Dave Mackay yelled at him to "put the efn ball down".Young just about wet himself and scurried up the field.That in a nutshell is what we have been missing at Hibs for a few years-someone who will take charge on the park and run the game.We have no leader and until we get one we will suffer these ineffectual displays.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
21-03-2017, 02:30 PM
The death of Alex Young reminded me of a derby at Tynie.The ball went out for a shy and Young grabbed it to take it.From about 40 yards away Dave Mackay yelled at him to "put the efn ball down".Young just about wet himself and scurried up the field.That in a nutshell is what we have been missing at Hibs for a few years-someone who will take charge on the park and run the game.We have no leader and until we get one we will suffer these ineffectual displays.

I think Fyvie fills this role, its just unfortunate that his form jadnt recovered since he was injured.

jacomo
21-03-2017, 11:42 PM
I think Fyvie fills this role, its just unfortunate that his form jadnt recovered since he was injured.


Agree. Fyvie seems like a strong character. But he's in very poor form.

Nicho87
21-03-2017, 11:54 PM
We will miss McGinns drive from midfield on Saturday I feel

Heisenberg
22-03-2017, 06:29 AM
We will miss McGinns drive from midfield on Saturday I feel

McGeough can hopefully start. On another note when was the last time we had our cup final midfield of McGinn, Fyvie and McGeough playing together? It's our best midfield lineup but don't think we've really been able to use them at the same time that much.

MWHIBBIES
22-03-2017, 06:42 AM
Full backs particularly Lewis IMO his crossing isnt great and maybe Crane might have been given a run even last 20 or so.Lewis has been in incredible form in 2017, he is well worth his place.

JimBHibees
22-03-2017, 07:23 AM
Lewis has been in incredible form in 2017, he is well worth his place.

In some of the games his crossing has been woeful and especially in games when he doesnt need to be defending so much personally think Crane could have got more game time to see what he could do in an attacking sense.

J-C
22-03-2017, 08:35 AM
In some of the games his crossing has been woeful and especially in games when he doesnt need to be defending so much personally think Crane could have got more game time to see what he could do in an attacking sense.

Or we make sure we get a natural wide left winger to supply the crosses and let Lewis do what he does best and defend, has Crane played as a left midfielder before, that could be the answer.

B.H.F.C
22-03-2017, 09:11 AM
Lewis has been in incredible form in 2017, he is well worth his place.

Nobody in that team has been in 'incredible' form in 2017. Our form has been abysmal.

He's been far from the worst. But incredible?

Lago
22-03-2017, 11:17 AM
Nobody in that team has been in 'incredible' form in 2017. Our form has been abysmal.

He's been far from the worst. But incredible?
Not incredible, but equally not abysmal.

JimBHibees
22-03-2017, 03:43 PM
Or we make sure we get a natural wide left winger to supply the crosses and let Lewis do what he does best and defend, has Crane played as a left midfielder before, that could be the answer.

We did have Matty Kennedy who I though t was good but Stubbsy obviously didnt fancy him much and changed the shape.

J-C
22-03-2017, 03:48 PM
We did have Matty Kennedy who I though t was good but Stubbsy obviously didnt fancy him much and changed the shape.


Was he not a right footer played on the left, if I remember correctly he kept cutting onto his right which kept us narrow, very similar to Harris, right footed who prefers to play on the left.