Jason Cummings - Improved Discipline

[CMurdoch]

As someone who totally did his nut last season when Jason was needlessly sent off against Hearts and again last night when he put another big game at risk by his petulance and stupidity
I must now congratulate Jason on his improved discipline this season as well as his improved play

Looking at a link on another thread I saw that Jason has only 2 bookings this season. I was a bit shocked given his seeming inability to control himself.
So given his great goal last night we should probably let him have last nights rave and be pleased he is maturing (slowly).
Hopefully last night acts as another timely reminder to him to wind his neck in.

So the big picture is well done this season :flag:and better to come

[Mr White]

His first yellow was clearly fuelled by frustration at the ref and I think is quite understandable given he was, imo, incorrectly called offside and denied a penalty in the first half. The second one however shows how much he needs to grow up. If he manages that then he's in with a shout of fulfilling his potential. His talent is clear but his maturity will always be questioned after actions like last night's.

[blackpoolhibs]

He's been sent off twice this season.

[Diclonius]

He's been sent off twice this season.

Before the United game his last red card was v Hearts in last season's cup replay.

[hibee_girl]

Before the United game his last red card was v Hearts in last season's cup replay.

He was sent off in a development game this season

[blackpoolhibs]

Before the United game his last red card was v Hearts in last season's cup replay.


He was sent off in a development game this season

:wink:

[CMurdoch]

He's been sent off twice this season.

Wasn't counting the one in the development game :greengrin.

[blackpoolhibs]

Wasn't counting the one in the development game :greengrin.

Ah well i wont count last nights one either, and agree with all you said. :greengrin

[HibsNutter]

Wasn't counting the one in the development game :greengrin.

Don't count it, totally irrelevant to the first team

[Mr White]

Don't count it, totally irrelevant to the first team

Given that it was for dissent to the linesman it's not totally irrelevant when discussing JC's temperament.

[CMurdoch]

His first yellow was clearly fuelled by frustration at the ref and I think is quite understandable given he was, imo, incorrectly called offside and denied a penalty in the first half. The second one however shows how much he needs to grow up. If he manages that then he's in with a shout of fulfilling his potential. His talent is clear but his maturity will always be questioned after actions like last night's.

After the first booking he lost the plot and made some bad decisions which resulted in him losing possession of the ball to D Utd at least twice, then he was sent off. A disaster 5 minutes.
BUT a wonderful goal.
He has won me over this season.
Lennon and I suspect Holt have been good for him.

[Centre Hawf]

He was sent off in a development game this season

He could get sent off as much as he wants in the development team. As long as he bangs them in for the first team im sound.

[blackpoolhibs]

He could get sent off as much as he wants in the development team. As long as he bangs them in for the first team im sound.

Do suspensions given in developement games carry over to the first team?

[B.H.F.C]

Do suspensions given in developement games carry over to the first team?

Depends on the offence.

[erin go bragh]

Do suspensions given in developement games carry over to the first team?

His sending off didn't. He played in the next league game .

[blackpoolhibs]

Depends on the offence.


His sending off didn't. He played in the next league game .

Good news. :greengrin

[Ryan69]

As someone who totally did his nut last season when Jason was needlessly sent off against Hearts and again last night when he put another big game at risk by his petulance and stupidity
I must now congratulate Jason on his improved discipline this season as well as his improved play

Looking at a link on another thread I saw that Jason has only 2 bookings this season. I was a bit shocked given his seeming inability to control himself.
So given his great goal last night we should probably let him have last nights rave and be pleased he is maturing (slowly).
Hopefully last night acts as another timely reminder to him to wind his neck in.

So the big picture is well done this season :flag:and better to come

When he was sent off I was thinking "what an idiot"

But the guy has passion...and gets frustrated at times. He will learn!

The all round play in his game has improved astronomically this year...so credit where it's due! Just a shame he won't be playing for a couple of games.

That guy has made us happy so many times....He Can be excused for frustration.

20 goals or more in last 3 seasons! We love him....But wish we could hate him lol

[--------]

When he was sent off I was thinking "what an idiot"

But the guy has passion...and gets frustrated at times. He will learn!

The all round play in his game has improved astronomically this year...so credit where it's due! Just a shame he won't be playing for a couple of games.

That guy has made us happy so many times....He Can be excused for frustration.

20 goals or more in last 3 seasons! We love him....But wish we could hate him lol


A COUPLE of games?

[Billy Whizz]

So Jason has been sent off 3 times in his full his career, and has never once been sent off for a bad tackle!

Also when was the last time he missed a game due to injury?

Maybe not such a bad lad after al!!!

[weonlywon6-2]

Is he ok for the semi final in April ??

[Mr White]

So Jason has been sent off 3 times in his full his career, and has never once been sent off for a bad tackle!

Also when was the last time he missed a game due to injury?

Maybe not such a bad lad after al!!!

Depends how you look at it. 3 red cards for chucking his toys out the pram isn't great and in some ways might be considered worse than if they had been for mistimed tackles or professional fouls- ie attempts to help the team rather than by venting his frustration. He's young and it's forgivable given his scoring record but it's a part of his game he needs to improve if he's going to progress.

[hibbysam]

Depends how you look at it. 3 red cards for chucking his toys out the pram isn't great and in some ways might be considered worse than if they had been for mistimed tackles or professional fouls- ie attempts to help the team rather than by venting his frustration. He's young and it's forgivable given his scoring record but it's a part of his game he needs to improve if he's going to progress.

I don't even know when his first red card was, but can you tell me which, if any, of his bookings vs hearts last year were for chucking his toys out the pram?

[Mr White]

I don't even know when his first red card was, but can you tell me which, if any, of his bookings vs hearts last year were for chucking his toys out the pram?

The second when he kicked the ball away. Then a straight red in a development game a few months ago for swearing at the assistant referee and we all know what happened last night. Indiscipline has been and could continue to be a problem for him. He needs to grow up.

[hibbysam]

The second when he kicked the ball away. Then a straight red in a development game a few months ago for swearing at the assistant referee and we all know what happened last night. Indiscipline has been and could continue to be a problem for him. He needs to grow up.

He kicked the ball ten yards, not in the huff or out of frustration. That wasn't 'chucking the toys out the pram'. So we're now including his red cards in under 20's games? Are we going to dissect his record right up through the ages? He has two red cards in professional football to my knowledge, and out of the four bookings that constituted two reds , you would be lucky if one was for 'chucking the toys out the pram'. Last night I would have done more than throw the ball into the keepers arms if I had been given the two calls he had in the first half.

[ancient hibee]

He kicked the ball ten yards, not in the huff or out of frustration. That wasn't 'chucking the toys out the pram'. So we're now including his red cards in under 20's games? Are we going to dissect his record right up through the ages? He has two red cards in professional football to my knowledge, and out of the four bookings that constituted two reds , you would be lucky if one was for 'chucking the toys out the pram'. Last night I would have done more than throw the ball into the keepers arms if I had been given the two calls he had in the first half.
What would you have done and would it have helped the team see out probably our most important game?

[Mr White]

He kicked the ball ten yards, not in the huff or out of frustration. That wasn't 'chucking the toys out the pram'. So we're now including his red cards in under 20's games? Are we going to dissect his record right up through the ages? He has two red cards in professional football to my knowledge, and out of the four bookings that constituted two reds , you would be lucky if one was for 'chucking the toys out the pram'. Last night I would have done more than throw the ball into the keepers arms if I had been given the two calls he had in the first half.

Ok so if you read the posts I've replied to it was those 3 reds that were being discussed. I didn't bring up the development red but I do think it's worth considering in the context of discussing JC's temperament and the effect it can have on the team when he loses his cool.

Take the yellow or red cards that david gray lewis stevenson or John mcginn get. Almost always for mistimed tackles or at worse professional fouls. Granted they all have more defensive duties but still they get booked when they're trying to help the team.

When Cummings gets carded it's for celebrating goals in front of opposition fans, booting the ball away in frustration or abusing the officials.

It's not hard to see the difference there and I'll repeat he needs to cut those parts of his game out.

[hibbysam]

Ok so if you read the posts I've replied to it was those 3 reds that were being discussed. I didn't bring up the development red but I do think it's worth considering in the context of discussing JC's temperament and the effect it can have on the team when he loses his cool.

Take the yellow or red cards that david gray lewis stevenson or John mcginn get. Almost always for mistimed tackles or at worse professional fouls. Granted they all have more defensive duties but still they get booked when they're trying to help the team.

When Cummings gets carded it's for celebrating goals in front of opposition fans, booting the ball away in frustration or abusing the officials.

It's not hard to see the difference there and I'll repeat he needs to cut those parts of his game out.

So giving away a foul on the edge of the box is helping the team? Very good. Yet celebrating a goal you have just scored early in a Derby isn't helping the team? Mightily confused. He had 2 bookings this season before Friday, in 8 months I think that is pretty good going. He has the occasional outburst, but hardly every week like your making out.

I would certainly rather he got booked once every 4 months for dissent/overcelebrating than booked every second week for kicking someone.

[Smartie]

I really don't have much time for dissent.

When has it ever influenced a referee in a positive way?

It's stupid, petulant, potentially costly and shouldn't happen.

Cummings shouldn't be missing games because he gets sent off for kicking/ throwing the ball away or having a go at referees when he doesn't like their decisions.

He plays on the shoulder of defenders and is going to get tight calls and wrong calls going against him regularly throughout his career.

At this point he's such an important player for us that he'll surely come back into the side, but if he moves on and leaves us what happens when he's sitting in the stand and the player who has come in to replace him scores a hat-trick?

I think he's great but I don't think we should be too tolerant of that side to him.

The referee was dishing out cards left, right and centre last night and sometime you need to know when to button it. Shinnie kept going at the ref last night after having been booked for dissent - I think we could do with curbing this a bit.

[CMurdoch]

Ok so if you read the posts I've replied to it was those 3 reds that were being discussed. I didn't bring up the development red but I do think it's worth considering in the context of discussing JC's temperament and the effect it can have on the team when he loses his cool.

Take the yellow or red cards that david gray lewis stevenson or John mcginn get. Almost always for mistimed tackles or at worse professional fouls. Granted they all have more defensive duties but still they get booked when they're trying to help the team.

When Cummings gets carded it's for celebrating goals in front of opposition fans, booting the ball away in frustration or abusing the officials.

It's not hard to see the difference there and I'll repeat he needs to cut those parts of his game out.

Agree with all of that.
When he gets one yellow he often gets a second.
Perhaps they need a system in place for someone like Holt or Lennon to get hold of him during the game after a yellow, to get it through his thick head to calm down and get back to business.
Alternatively substituted after a yellow until he can be trusted not to get a second yellow for stupidity.

[Mr White]

So giving away a foul on the edge of the box is helping the team? Very good. Yet celebrating a goal you have just scored early in a Derby isn't helping the team? Mightily confused. He had 2 bookings this season before Friday, in 8 months I think that is pretty good going. He has the occasional outburst, but hardly every week like your making out.

I would certainly rather he got booked once every 4 months for dissent/overcelebrating than booked every second week for kicking someone.

I'm not making anything of the sort. I'm a big fan of JC and he has a lot of talent, enough to see him play at a high level imo. That will only happen if he does all he can to improve any aspect of his game in any way he can. Avoidable bookings and subsequent suspensions would be near the top of that list.

[B.H.F.C]

So giving away a foul on the edge of the box is helping the team? Very good. Yet celebrating a goal you have just scored early in a Derby isn't helping the team? Mightily confused. He had 2 bookings this season before Friday, in 8 months I think that is pretty good going. He has the occasional outburst, but hardly every week like your making out.

I would certainly rather he got booked once every 4 months for dissent/overcelebrating than booked every second week for kicking someone.

Sorry, but he can't be defended for last night.

I stick up for him more than anybody on this board. Where we'd be without him I have no idea. But last night was sheer stupidity from him. And doing it occasionally is too often. As well as putting us under pressure last night we're now without our main source of goals next week.

[hibbysam]

I'm not making anything of the sort. I'm a big fan of JC and he has a lot of talent, enough to see him play at a high level imo. That will only happen if he does all he can to improve any aspect of his game in any way he can. Avoidable bookings and subsequent suspensions would be near the top of that list.

So you reckon two bookings in 8 months isn't a good enough disciplinary record? 2 red cards in 4 seasons.. But you don't mind defenders getting booked/sent off for hacking someone down? Surely contradictory.

I would rather Jason didn't get booked either, however, take his edge away and you will lose a lot of his game. We tried it with Scott Brown as a boy and it just doesn't work. These players have that side to them, and you either take it or leave it. I'll take his 20+ goals this year along with one red card and accept that as a decent record.

[hibbysam]

Sorry, but he can't be defended for last night.

I stick up for him more than anybody on this board. Where we'd be without him I have no idea. But last night was sheer stupidity from him. And doing it occasionally is too often. As well as putting us under pressure last night we're now without our main source of goals next week.

No one is 'defending' last night. I am arguing the fact he doesn't have this atrocious disciplinary record like some want to suggest.

[Mr White]

So you reckon two bookings in 8 months isn't a good enough disciplinary record? 2 red cards in 4 seasons.. But you don't mind defenders getting booked/sent off for hacking someone down? Surely contradictory.

I would rather Jason didn't get booked either, however, take his edge away and you will lose a lot of his game. We tried it with Scott Brown as a boy and it just doesn't work. These players have that side to them, and you either take it or leave it. I'll take his 20+ goals this year along with one red card and accept that as a decent record.

You're just making things up now. I didn't say I'm ok with our players hacking down the opposition I made the distinction between attempting to make a tackle or win the ball vs being petulant. You can dress it up any way you want but he needs to improve his attitude and his discipline. Excusing it as part of his game is nonsense imo.

He wastes a lot of energy moaning and pouting. I'd suggest that played a big part in Lennon benching him earlier in the season.

[CMurdoch]

I really don't have much time for dissent.

When has it ever influenced a referee in a positive way?

It's stupid, petulant, potentially costly and shouldn't happen.

Cummings shouldn't be missing games because he gets sent off for kicking/ throwing the ball away or having a go at referees when he doesn't like their decisions.

He plays on the shoulder of defenders and is going to get tight calls and wrong calls going against him regularly throughout his career.

At this point he's such an important player for us that he'll surely come back into the side, but if he moves on and leaves us what happens when he's sitting in the stand and the player who has come in to replace him scores a hat-trick?

I think he's great but I don't think we should be too tolerant of that side to him.

The referee was dishing out cards left, right and centre last night and sometime you need to know when to button it. Shinnie kept going at the ref last night after having been booked for dissent - I think we could do with curbing this a bit.

Yeah, everything in your post is spot on

[O'Rourke3]

Of his two first team red cards he was unlucky to be be booked for his first against Hearts. When Dunfy scored their equaliser their team were off the park celebrating with the crowd and no cards. His second in that game came only after the Hearts team pursued the ref. Moot whether the first last night was dissent/petulance given the ball went in an unaggressive manner to the goalie. No defending the last.

[Unseen work]

Dissent is frustration from players who purely want to win.

When you play at a competitive level and you're getting decisions against you which you don't agree with it's infuriating as you're desperate to win

[hibbysam]

You're just making things up now. I didn't say I'm ok with our players hacking down the opposition I made the distinction between attempting to make a tackle or win the ball vs being petulant. You can dress it up any way you want but he needs to improve his attitude and his discipline. Excusing it as part of his game is nonsense imo.

No, but you made the comparison between the two, and I'm answering it. I'd rather someone gets booked twice for dissent, than someone who gets booked 8 times for fouling someone. A booking is a booking regardless of what it is for. Every booking is avoidable. Every player can improve their discipline unless they get zero bookings. I'd imagine JC has one of the better disciplinary records at the club though.

[wookie70]

He has been sent off less than Lennon this year.

[CMurdoch]

The point of this thread is to acknowledge that Jason's behaviour like his play is improving.
However, no professional player should be getting booked for petulance, kicking the ball away etc as it is totally avoidable without being detrimental to your game.
Scott Brown was a different kettle of fish. Aggression was fundamental to his game so couldn't easily be removed without affecting his play.

[Mr White]

No, but you made the comparison between the two, and I'm answering it. I'd rather someone gets booked twice for dissent, than someone who gets booked 8 times for fouling someone. A booking is a booking regardless of what it is for. Every booking is avoidable. Every player can improve their discipline unless they get zero bookings. I'd imagine JC has one of the better disciplinary records at the club though.




Some bookings are more avoidable than others.

Considering he's our top scorer yet was benched for weeks by a manager who understands better than anyone how important it is to choose your battles and focus your limited energy I think it's safe to say there's a feeling within the club that JC could improve his all round game by cutting out the kind of thing we saw last night. I'm not saying it happens every week but it does show itself too often, even if he doesn't always get booked for it.

[SChibs]

So giving away a foul on the edge of the box is helping the team? Very good. Yet celebrating a goal you have just scored early in a Derby isn't helping the team? Mightily confused. He had 2 bookings this season before Friday, in 8 months I think that is pretty good going. He has the occasional outburst, but hardly every week like your making out.

I would certainly rather he got booked once every 4 months for dissent/overcelebrating than booked every second week for kicking someone.

I think the point was more, if you are on a yellow for celebrating a goal or dissent don't be stupid enough to sent off for throwing the ball away or a daft handball. Bad tackles happen in football but the yellows that Jason picks up are totally unavoidable

[Tyler Durden]

I really don't have much time for dissent.

When has it ever influenced a referee in a positive way?

It's stupid, petulant, potentially costly and shouldn't happen.

Cummings shouldn't be missing games because he gets sent off for kicking/ throwing the ball away or having a go at referees when he doesn't like their decisions.

He plays on the shoulder of defenders and is going to get tight calls and wrong calls going against him regularly throughout his career.

At this point he's such an important player for us that he'll surely come back into the side, but if he moves on and leaves us what happens when he's sitting in the stand and the player who has come in to replace him scores a hat-trick?

I think he's great but I don't think we should be too tolerant of that side to him.

The referee was dishing out cards left, right and centre last night and sometime you need to know when to button it. Shinnie kept going at the ref last night after having been booked for dissent - I think we could do with curbing this a bit.

With Lennon in charge it's more likely we will see more dissent and pressuring referees!

It does actually influence referees at times and I'm glad Hibs players are standing up for themselves. Refs are totally inconsistent with how they handle dissent as was evidenced last night.

Of course kicking the ball away and the like is stupid but the players aren't robots and no wonder they lose the plot at times

[matty_f]

Ah well i wont count last nights one either, and agree with all you said. :greengrin

:hilarious

[Swedish hibee]

Is he ok for the semi final.. Read on twitter he's out- is this true? Or just more fake news!!!

[Borderhibbie76]

Is he ok for the semi final.. Read on twitter he's out- is this true? Or just more fake news!!!
Why would he be out the semi final?? Nonsense mate he will miss Dumbarton next week and be back the following week

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[JackLadd]

Keatings could nick his jersey.

[lapsedhibee]

Is he ok for the semi final in April ??
Depends who the ref/linesmen are the week before it.