(NHC) Wenger. He can't survive this.

[Hibbyradge]

10 - 2 on aggregate.

He's toast.

[Colr]

21 years of top 4 finishes!

[3pm]

Will be tough.

Sanchez having a giggle at 5-1 tonight as well.

[BroxburnHibee]

He actually has a 2 year deal on the table. Bet he signs it before they whip it away. :greengrin

[Michael]

Will be tough.

Sanchez having a giggle at 5-1 tonight as well.

Reminds me of our 5-1 game. Arsenal need him gone, terrible attitude.

[Pretty Boy]

Hopefully he moves on at the end of the season.

He should leave as an Arsenal legend but the way it's headed it's going to turn nasty and whilst he's already going to leave under a bit of a cloud he should be spared against it being too much worse.

[Jonnyboy]

10 - 2 on aggregate.

He's toast.

His team killed twice :wink:

[NAE NOOKIE]

But, but, but ...... the EPL is the best league in the world and Arsenal ore one of the best teams in it :faf:

[Pete]

He has to go. Either now or at the end of the season.

It's over.

[monktonharp]

Exsqueeze me, but is this a Hibs related item/ who gives a flyin' flipper?

[21.05.2016]

The arsenal support has been pretty split on the should Wenger stay or go topic but I reckon this will have been the final straw for some of the fans defending him.

Times up for him.

[monktonharp]

the arsenal support has been pretty split on the should wenger stay or go topic but i reckon this will have been the final straw for some of the fans defending him.

Times up for him.nhc

[majorhibs]

nhc

Wow, a "fitba" fan who does not like discussin fitba!

[JackLadd]

They could replace him and end up not being in the CL at all like Man U.

[Ell_Chrisso]

Yet produced the best team that will ever play in the Premier League

[hfc rd]

He actually has a 2 year deal on the table. Bet he signs it before they whip it away. :greengrin


I actually hope he stays as Arsenal FanTV will just turn boring. 😉

Sanchez is without a doubt on his way out. Özil will go as well.

[High-On-Hibs]

They'll replace him and will become a mid table club at best.

[Callyballybe]

Apart from the earlier success, the team hasn't moved forward for the best part of 10 years. Other teams have now caught up and the sacred 'has always guaranteed them top 4' is also in jeopardy.

For the size of the club, and it's potential to be even bigger, expecting a top 4 finish most seasons should really be standard. Furthermore, there should also be an expectation of pushing on for a real title challenge after coming in the top four so many times. This hasn't materialised.

You can almost set your watch by when the team will bottle their season now - something he should've fixed long ago.

A change has been needed for a while now. Most 'big' clubs would react to this embarrassment of a result tonight and do what needs to be done. I don't see the Arsenal board stepping up here though - especially if there is genuinely a 2 year extension on offer.

[MWHIBBIES]

They'll replace him and will become a mid table club at best.No, they wont. How on earth did you reach that conclusion? Even without Sanchez that squad is not even close to mid table.

Arsenal have never been a mid table club at best, they are one of the most consistent teams in history. They are 2nd in the all time English top flight table.

[monktonharp]

Wow, a "fitba" fan who does not like discussin fitba!your wrong. this is a Hibs forum, and the present subject is a non Hibs content therefor should be stated as such or better still removed to another sub forum.

[Keyser Sauzee]

your wrong. this is a Hibs forum, and the present subject is a non Hibs content therefor should be stated as such or better still removed to another sub forum.

Is it really that much of an issue, it's pretty clear there's NHC from the thread title. Get over it.

[easty]

Without Sanchez and Ozil (who'll both leave in the summer), that team is very average.

And, for all that his Invincibles team was outstanding...he's signed a load of ***** too. Over the last 3 seasons he's brought in the likes of Xhaka for £35m, Perez £17m, Gabriel £13m, Chambers £17m, Debuchey £13m, Elneny £10m. He's spent over £220m in total over the last 3 seasons, and they've no really improved at all.

I've never been a fan of Wenger, but I'd rather they kept him on, I like to see him struggling.:greengrin

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If Spurs finish quite a few points better off than Arsenal it may well be impossible for him to stay.

[ekhibee]

The team that went through the premiership season unbeaten made history. He put that team together. No other team has done that. Unlike some on here I liked him and thought he was an excellent manager but it's time for him to call it a day.

[jgl07]

The team that went through the premiership season unbeaten made history. He put that team together. No other team has done that. Unlike some on here I liked him and thought he was an excellent manager but it's time for him to call it a day.

I would agree. Wenger has been an excellent manager but I think it is time for him to go.

Bill Shankley had the right idea and went out at the top. The shelf life of a manager now is probably five or six years.

I would expect a post-Wenger Arsenal to perform rather like Manchester United at the moment, consistently in the top seven to eight but not threaten the top three.

[Callyballybe]

The team that went through the premiership season unbeaten made history. He put that team together. No other team has done that. Unlike some on here I liked him and thought he was an excellent manager but it's time for him to call it a day.

I think most people liked him during this period, the point is though that the 'invincibles' team was 12/13 years ago now. Football has changed dramatically since then and he simply hasn't changed with it.

They seem to be linked quite consistently with Allegri, and if there is any truth behind this, I don't see why they can't at some point start challenging for the title once more - if he's brought in. (Provided they don't continue to buy 45 midfielders followed by the occasional gash defender.)

[O'Rourke3]

I feel the same way I did when Ned was struggling. Conflicted but he had to go too. He couldnt turn it round. Where Arsenal are really stuffed is he is in complete control of the football operations. No one else there has a clue..

Sent via the bushes @ EM

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

But, but, but ...... the EPL is the best league in the world and Arsenal ore one of the best teams in it :faf:

Bit of a pointless argument really. The merits of one team dont necessarily reflect the strength of a league.

[calumhibee1]

He needs to go and he needs to take the majority of the squad with him.

Out of that Arsenal squad I would say only Cech (even then he's getting on a bit), Bellerin (more based on potential), Koscielny and Sanchez would be of any interest to any of the other top clubs in England and all of them would be of no interest to the likes of Real and Barca.

The fact that their starting line up regularly consists of 4 or 5 from Monreal, Mustafi, Gabriel, Coquelin, Elneny, Xhaka, Walcott, Chamberlain, Iwobe, Ramsey, Cazorla, Welbeck and even Giroud just shows why they get horsed off world class teams in the Champions League. These guys are mid table Premiership players at best.

They need to go out, get a world class manager and give the guy £200m or so to spend. They must have it as Wenger doesn't spend nearly as much as the other big teams.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

They'll replace him and will become a mid table club at best.

The history of Arsenal would suggest otherwise.

[Salt N Sauzee]

No, they wont. How on earth did you reach that conclusion? Even without Sanchez that squad is not even close to mid table.

Arsenal have never been a mid table club at best, they are one of the most consistent teams in history. They are 2nd in the all time English top flight table.

Found the Arsenal fan :greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

Found the Arsenal fan :greengrin
No, just the Hibby with logic.

[MWHIBBIES]

He needs to go and he needs to take the majority of the squad with him.

Out of that Arsenal squad I would say only Cech (even then he's getting on a bit), Bellerin (more based on potential), Koscielny and Sanchez would be of any interest to any of the other top clubs in England and all of them would be of no interest to the likes of Real and Barca.

The fact that their starting line up regularly consists of 4 or 5 from Monreal, Mustafi, Gabriel, Coquelin, Elneny, Xhaka, Walcott, Chamberlain, Iwobe, Ramsey, Cazorla, Welbeck and even Giroud just shows why they get horsed off world class teams in the Champions League. These guys are mid table Premiership players at best.

They need to go out, get a world class manager and give the guy £200m or so to spend. They must have it as Wenger doesn't spend nearly as much as the other big teams.Cazorla being injured is part of the reason they are struggling, he is a top class player.

[DH1875]

No, they wont. How on earth did you reach that conclusion? Even without Sanchez that squad is not even close to mid table.

Arsenal have never been a mid table club at best, they are one of the most consistent teams in history. They are 2nd in the all time English top flight table.

I beg to differ. Take Sanchez out of that squad and they are very close to a mid table team/squad.

[DH1875]

Cazorla being injured is part of the reason they are struggling, he is a top class player.

Santi Cazorla is a good player but he is nothing like top class and if him missing is why their struggling then they really do have problems.

[Auckland Hibs]

He's taken them as far as he can - he's a legend & should go before it turns nasty.

Produced some amazing teams, however they can be sooo frustrating to watch.

[HibbyAndy]

Beat of Bayern 5-1 three times in a row.

His time is up.

[calumhibee1]

Cazorla being injured is part of the reason they are struggling, he is a top class player.

Not for me. IMO he wouldn't get near the Chelsea, City, United, Spurs and Liverpool midfields.

[Bostonhibby]

Without Sanchez and Ozil (who'll both leave in the summer), that team is very average.

And, for all that his Invincibles team was outstanding...he's signed a load of ***** too. Over the last 3 seasons he's brought in the likes of Xhaka for £35m, Perez £17m, Gabriel £13m, Chambers £17m, Debuchey £13m, Elneny £10m. He's spent over £220m in total over the last 3 seasons, and they've no really improved at all.

I've never been a fan of Wenger, but I'd rather they kept him on, I like to see him struggling.:greengrin
Pretty much where I've always been, he can't organise a defence or spot a defender. Key invincibles / defenders were inherited.

With one or two exceptions his big signings aren't great as you say. You forgot Jeffers, Reyes and Arshavin and I don't think they've had much value from ozil in relation to what he cost. He is often out and sometimes looks like he doesn't want to be there when he does play.

[Baader]

Pretty much where I've always been, he can't organise a defence or spot a defender. The "invincibles" defence was inherited.

No it wasn't. He inherited the legendary back five of Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn.

The invincibles back five was Lehmann, Lauren, Cole, Toure and Sol Campbell. Each one signed by Wenger with the exception of Cole.

Wenger's predicament is a well worn story of a manager staying on too long. Reminds me of Clough or even ET with us. Knowing when to call the a day is an important part of being a great.

Just hope he can announce that he will retire at the end of the season so he can be shown the respect and appreciation he deserves for all he has done for the club.

[Bostonhibby]

No he didn't. He inherited the legendary back five of Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn.

The invincibles back five was Lehmann, Lauren, Cole, Toure and Sol Campbell. Each one signed by Wenger with the exception of Cole.

Wenger's predicament is a well worn story of a manager staying on too long. Reminds me of Clough or even ET with us. Knowing when to call the a day is an important part of being a great.

Just hope he can announce that he will retire at the end of the season so he can be shown the respect and appreciation he deserves for all he has done for the club.
Sorry, you're right. Just don't think he's signed or organised a decent defence since. Mind you in that particular season attack was probably the best form of defence.

I think he is being left behind and some of his recent signings aren't doing it.

[calumhibee1]

Sorry, you're right. Just don't think he's signed or organised a decent defence since. Mind you in that particular season attack was probably the best form of defence.

I think he is being left behind and some of his recent signings aren't doing it.

Other than Sanchez I'd suggest all his signings for the best decade or so haven't done enough.

[jacomo]

No it wasn't. He inherited the legendary back five of Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn.

The invincibles back five was Lehmann, Lauren, Cole, Toure and Sol Campbell. Each one signed by Wenger with the exception of Cole.

Wenger's predicament is a well worn story of a manager staying on too long. Reminds me of Clough or even ET with us. Knowing when to call the a day is an important part of being a great.

Just hope he can announce that he will retire at the end of the season so he can be shown the respect and appreciation he deserves for all he has done for the club.


:agree:

Good summary.

It's probably time for Wenger to go but the Arsenal fans risk embarrassing themselves before the end of the season. Wenger has done a lot for them.

[Andy74]

Football in England has also changed a bit. If Man city and Chelsea didn't get their influx of spending power Wenger would probably still have Arsenal battling it out with Man Utd.

I do think there is some risk that they change and start to slide back - but that said it is probably now at the stage where there needs to be a change but at the end of the season.

[Steve20]

Not for me. IMO he wouldn't get near the Chelsea, City, United, Spurs and Liverpool midfields.

Cazorla would get comfortably in all of them, except Chelsea.

[easty]

Cazorla being injured is part of the reason they are struggling, he is a top class player.

Yeah, it's part of the reason, cos he's better than what they have playing in his place. He's a good player, not a top class player, though.

[Hibbyradge]

I beg to differ. Take Sanchez out of that squad and they are very close to a mid table team/squad.

Firstly, Sanvhez is an Arsenal player. Take the best players out of any team and they're weakened.

Secondly, "Very close to" means they're not. I was very close to having a hole in one yesterday. :wink:

[hfc rd]

Wenger will not be sacked. It's simple.

Arsenal are run as a business enterprise with the aim to keep ROI index in the sweet spot.

Let's just assume the Arsenal board invest 200 mil in the summer to get better players. Does is guarantee success (winning CL or PL)? Absolutely not. Football is a high risk business with many uncontrollable factors. But let's assume that the Arsenal board do invest 200 mil in transfer fees + 30-40 mil a year in wages for 3-4 new players. And they do win the PL and CL.

How much more money will they get from sponsors, UEFA, fans (match day) and TV money? extra 20 mil? 30 mil? So investing 240 mil gives a return of 30 mil. What sort of business is that?

I'm not saying it's good. this is the way Arsenal is set up. The Arsenal board makes sure to invest enough to be in CL so they finish fiscal year in the black. Rinse and repeat. And that's why Wenger will never be sacked as he guarantees that top 4 finish.

Say what you want about Abramovich, the sheiks, Levy or the Glazers - but these guys do not lack ambition. These guys would no way allow a manager to still be at the helm after only just 2 FA Cups in 13 years with no possibility that they will challenge for the EPL or CL. Kroenke & Gazidis do.

They left Highbury for the Emirates to compete with the elite but they have gone well backwards than steps forward. Their best and only real quality player that they have is on his way out, their fans are divided and not united together and they had the perfect opportunity to win the league last season with Chelsea, both Manchester clubs, Liverpool all performing abysmally, but they f***** it against Leicester City.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I beg to differ. Take Sanchez out of that squad and they are very close to a mid table team/squad.

Mid table likr Stoke, or West Brom, or even Everton?

Disagree. I think you could count on one hand the times arsrnal have been mid table in my lifetime.

I remember they finished disastrously low for them (6th maybe?) Under rioch in the mid 90s and it was treated as a major crisis and surprise.

[The_Exile]

your wrong. this is a Hibs forum, and the present subject is a non Hibs content therefor should be stated as such or better still removed to another sub forum.

Read the forum description:

The messageboard for all Hibs fans to chat about Hibs and football in general.

As for Wenger, I'd imagine he'll call it a day at the end of the season and it may well be announced soon to placate the baying hordes.

[High-On-Hibs]

No, they wont. How on earth did you reach that conclusion? Even without Sanchez that squad is not even close to mid table.

Arsenal have never been a mid table club at best, they are one of the most consistent teams in history. They are 2nd in the all time English top flight table.

They are the most consistent team in history, as they don't jump the gun and fire their managers when they have a slip up.

Who do you honestly think they're going to replace Wenger with who will be able to meet the expectation levels of the fans? Which go above and beyond Arsenals consistant level?

[Hibbyradge]

They are the most consistent team in history, as they don't jump the gun and fire their managers when they have a slip up.

Who do you honestly think they're going to replace Wenger with who will be able to meet the expectation levels of the fans? Which go above and beyond Arsenals consistant level?

The fans feel that consistantly getting knocked out in the last 16 if the CL, and consistently losing their way in the EPL title race isn't good enough.

You might be right, but I'll be very surprised if Wenger is still there in August.

[Auckland Hibs]

He's lost half the fans & half the dressing room - it's only a matter of time. Having seen his last few interviews on tv he looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Pretty tough job finding a replacement when he does leave.

[HibbyAndy]

Wenger will not be sacked. It's simple.

Arsenal are run as a business enterprise with the aim to keep ROI index in the sweet spot.

Let's just assume the Arsenal board invest 200 mil in the summer to get better players. Does is guarantee success (winning CL or PL)? Absolutely not. Football is a high risk business with many uncontrollable factors. But let's assume that the Arsenal board do invest 200 mil in transfer fees + 30-40 mil a year in wages for 3-4 new players. And they do win the PL and CL.

How much more money will they get from sponsors, UEFA, fans (match day) and TV money? extra 20 mil? 30 mil? So investing 240 mil gives a return of 30 mil. What sort of business is that?

I'm not saying it's good. this is the way Arsenal is set up. The Arsenal board makes sure to invest enough to be in CL so they finish fiscal year in the black. Rinse and repeat. And that's why Wenger will never be sacked as he guarantees that top 4 finish.

Say what you want about Abramovich, the sheiks, Levy or the Glazers - but these guys do not lack ambition. These guys would no way allow a manager to still be at the helm after only just 2 FA Cups in 13 years with no possibility that they will challenge for the EPL or CL. Kroenke & Gazidis do.

They left Highbury for the Emirates to compete with the elite but they have gone well backwards than steps forward. Their best and only real quality player that they have is on his way out, their fans are divided and not united together and they had the perfect opportunity to win the league last season with Chelsea, both Manchester clubs, Liverpool all performing abysmally, but they f***** it against Leicester City.


To be fair Arsenal were the only team to beat Leicester city twice :greengrin

[jacomo]

They are the most consistent team in history, as they don't jump the gun and fire their managers when they have a slip up.

Who do you honestly think they're going to replace Wenger with who will be able to meet the expectation levels of the fans? Which go above and beyond Arsenals consistant level?


There's a fair bit of managerial talent around. Wenger doesn't seem to get the best out of his squad at times.

Any successor will have a tough job, but also a great opportunity.

[Thecat23]

Let's be honest he's overstayed for years not just this season. Blame the board as they have done nothing. While others were bringing in quality Arsenal done the usual.. nowt.

[High-On-Hibs]

The fans feel that consistantly getting knocked out in the last 16 if the CL, and consistently losing their way in the EPL title race isn't good enough.

You might be right, but I'll be very surprised if Wenger is still there in August.

I'd be surprised as well tbh. But i'd be even more surprised if Arsenal were able to bring somebody in who would suddenly have them picking up EPL titles and CL winners medals.

Their fans demand silky looking football, but to have all the goodies in the bag at the same time. They're not willing to compromise. That's why they'll rarely ever win anything major.

[calumhibee1]

Cazorla would get comfortably in all of them, except Chelsea.

Not for me.

Spurs - Alli, Wanyama and Ericksen are better midfielders.
City - Id have Sterling, Sane, De Bruyne, Toure and Silva ahead of him in the midfield positions.
Man Utd - Pogba, Mata, Herrera, Mkhtiryan and Martial all offer more than him
Liverpool - Mane, Coutinho and Lallana would all be in ahead of him
Chelsea - Hazard, William, Pedro, ****e and even Fabregas would all be in ahead of him.

All IMO of course. He's not a bad player as such, I just don't think he's top level.

[lapsedhibee]

The Arsenal board makes sure to invest enough to be in CL so they finish fiscal year in the black. Rinse and repeat. And that's why Wenger will never be sacked as he guarantees that top 4 finish.

Say what you want about Abramovich, the sheiks, Levy or the Glazers - but these guys do not lack ambition. These guys would no way allow a manager to still be at the helm after only just 2 FA Cups in 13 years with no possibility that they will challenge for the EPL or CL. Kroenke & Gazidis do.

(At least) 3 FA cups in 13 years, but agree with the rest of your analysis. There was also a brief period where Arsenal had a far eastern player in the first team squad who never or hardly ever played, presumably simply to boost shirt sales on the other side of the world.

[easty]

They are the most consistent team in history, as they don't jump the gun and fire their managers when they have a slip up.

Who do you honestly think they're going to replace Wenger with who will be able to meet the expectation levels of the fans? Which go above and beyond Arsenals consistant level?

They've consistently failed to win the EPL in any the last 12 seasons.

They have won 3 FA cups in that time though, and no league cups.

Also, they've been very consistent in the Champions League. 6 years in a row they've been knocked out in the last 16 stage.


They're clearly one of the biggest clubs in England, so the consistency they've shown, that Wenger has brought them, is pretty **** to be honest.

[easty]

Their fans demand silky looking football, but to have all the goodies in the bag at the same time. They're not willing to compromise. That's why they'll rarely ever win anything major.

I doubt that's true. I bet they'd be happy to have a change of style if it brought them the league, or the Champions League.

[stantonhibby]

They've consistently failed to win the EPL in any the last 12 seasons.

They have won 3 FA cups in that time though, and no league cups.

Also, they've been very consistent in the Champions League. 6 years in a row they've been knocked out in the last 16 stage.


They're clearly one of the biggest clubs in England, so the consistency they've shown, that Wenger has brought them, is pretty **** to be honest.

Bit harsh....Top 4 every season is consistent and that whilst competing with the Megabucks that Chelsea & Man C have been flinging about.

[easty]

There was also a brief period where Arsenal had a far eastern player in the first team squad who never or hardly ever played, presumably simply to boost shirt sales on the other side of the world.

I just went to check who that guy was, and saw that it looks like they did the same thing at the start of this season!

Takumo Asano, £3.5m from a team in Japan. He's on loan at Stuttgart now.

[ekhibee]

Not for me.

Spurs - Alli, Wanyama and Ericksen are better midfielders.
City - Id have Sterling, Sane, De Bruyne, Toure and Silva ahead of him in the midfield positions.
Man Utd - Pogba, Mata, Herrera, Mkhtiryan and Martial all offer more than him
Liverpool - Mane, Coutinho and Lallana would all be in ahead of him
Chelsea - Hazard, William, Pedro, ****e and even Fabregas would all be in ahead of him.

All IMO of course. He's not a bad player as such, I just don't think he's top level.
Yep, totally agree with this, I've always thought Cazorla's an overrated player, although still a good one. Contrary to some others on here though, I think Sanchez is a world class player. IMO providing he can stay fit, he's just as good as anything Barcelona or Real Madrid have with the exception of Messi (and possibly Ronaldo), and better than anything the English clubs have, but that's just my personal opinion. He virtually carried Chile to their first Copa America in God knows how long. He had a catalogue of injuries at Barcelona, but still scored 19 goals for them in his final season there.

[easty]

Bit harsh....Top 4 every season is consistent and that whilst competing with the Megabucks that Chelsea & Man C have been flinging about.

It is consistent. Consistently not good enough for one of the top teams in that country.

Arsenal have flung plenty money about too. Net spend of £187.27m over the last 3 years on players.

2016/17
Spend - £96.05m
Sales - £8.8m

2015/16
Spend - £24.65m
Sales - £2.13m

2014/15
Spend - £101.13m
Sales - £23.63m


Over the same period, the net spends of the other top clubs (taken from www.transfermarkt.co.uk) in England were

Man City - £322.48m
Man Utd - £279.27m
Liverpool - £69.88m
Chelsea - £16.16m
Tottenham - £14.4m

[tamig]

The Arsenal board run the club primarily as a business (as another poster mentions) and so long as the CL money keeps rolling in there is unlikely to be any panic from them. What would be interesting would be the reaction from Stan Kroenke and co if they failed to finish in the top four this season. That would have a big impact on the profit and I'm sure we'd see a big change in direction/attitude from the men at the top.

[SlickShoes]

He will get sacked or leave and Arsenal will be in bother because good managers are like gold dust, they won't qualify for the champions league next season with a new manager.

[stantonhibby]

It is consistent. Consistently not good enough for one of the top teams in that country.

Arsenal have flung plenty money about too. Net spend of £187.27m over the last 3 years on players.

2016/17
Spend - £96.05m
Sales - £8.8m

2015/16
Spend - £24.65m
Sales - £2.13m

2014/15
Spend - £101.13m
Sales - £23.63m


Over the same period, the net spends of the other top clubs (taken from www.transfermarkt.co.uk) in England were

Man City - £322.48m
Man Utd - £279.27m
Liverpool - £69.88m
Chelsea - £16.16m
Tottenham - £14.4m

Fair enough...... Surprised at the Chelsea net spend!

[Andy74]

Fair enough...... Surprised at the Chelsea net spend!

That's because you have to look back a bit further to get true net spend of the teams being built. They already had players in place but they were also presumably able to flog more of their players for big fees too during that period?

[Winston Ingram]

Cazorla being injured is part of the reason they are struggling, he is a top class player.

If he is that top class, why is he out of contract at the end of the season and not been offered a new deal? :hmmm:

[easty]

That's because you have to look back a bit further to get true net spend of the teams being built. They already had players in place but they were also presumably able to flog more of their players for big fees too during that period?

No you don't. It's a reflection of transfer activity over a 3 year period. Arsenal have spent plenty, and haven't got any better.

[Hibernia&Alba]

There's another two year contract on the table for Wenger, if he wants it. The Arsenal board seem very happy with top four in the league and last sixteen of the Champions League each season; it's about revenue, and a domestic cup here and there is job done. The fans, however, want to compete in the big two competitions, and many want Wenger and the board out it seems.

10-2 on aggregate can't be acceptable for a club the size of Arsenal, but it seems the board are leaving the issue in the hands of Wenger himself.

[The Modfather]

One of the pundits, maybe Nial Quinn, made some good points about the Wenger debate the other week.He was saying that folk always give Man U post Fergie as the example of careful what you wish for. However he said no one ever mentions the opposite example of Chelsea. While most would disagree with the way they treat managers it's hard to disagree they have been successful in being ruthless with managers.

My take is that Wenger was the perfect manager for the period when they moved to the new stadium and the balancing of the books that required. The whole point of moving was to be able to have the spending power to compete with the top teams. The resources are there now to properly compete, which Arsenal are consistently not doing. So for me Wenger doesn't have any excuses for not being in with a shout for the big prizes at the end of the season and they are badly under performing.

It's not an impossible job like the Man U one was as that was on the back of unprecedented sustained success which no one will ever repeat. With Arsenal you could take the current squad and actually focus on the defending side and managing games (last night being a clear example of only having one way to play regardless of circumstances) and already have a base of close to what is being achieved just now e.g. Top 4. Never mind moving things on and getting more out of the squad.

Wenger is one of my favourite non Hibs managers, but he looks like a dinosaur and has done for a good number of years.Think the Arsenal fans would be more accepting of him just now if he was trying/showing signs of doing things differently.

Would take him at Hibs after Lennon :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://youtu.be/Td7PLJOGL9E


If you haven't seen Arsenal Fan TV on You Tube, it's very funny: the seethe is amazing. Language warning, though! :greengrin

Getting pwoper nawty!

[worcesterhibby]

Yet produced the best team that will ever play in the Premier League

I preferred the Utd team of Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo....but they were decent :greengrin

[yonder1875]

If he had left after the 2006 Champions League Final he would be held in as high regard as SAF - but now, not so much. He will always have my respect however, a great football man.

[Callyballybe]

I'd be surprised as well tbh. But i'd be even more surprised if Arsenal were able to bring somebody in who would suddenly have them picking up EPL titles and CL winners medals.

Their fans demand silky looking football, but to have all the goodies in the bag at the same time. They're not willing to compromise. That's why they'll rarely ever win anything major.

I disagree, as someone who follows them (to call myself a supporter would be too strong as there is only one team for me.) However, having a couple pals down that way who are season ticket holders, and in general speaking to Arsenal fans - I've never heard anyone of them say anything like that. What it seems Arsenal fans are 'demanding' is for their team to show some sort of improvement over the last 10 years, and to stop 'bottling' it around christmas time.

If they were to bring in someone like Allegri, and still come top 4 - as long as they showed a bit of bottle and a sustained crack at the title + a better showing in the Champs League, both entirely possible with the size of club they are. I think the vast majority of gunners fans would be appeased.

No improvement over 10 years is shocking in today's footballing world.

[Baader]

I disagree, as someone who follows them (to call myself a supporter would be too strong as there is only one team for me.) However, having a couple pals down that way who are season ticket holders, and in general speaking to Arsenal fans - I've never heard anyone of them say anything like that. What it seems Arsenal fans are 'demanding' is for their team to show some sort of improvement over the last 10 years, and to stop 'bottling' it around christmas time.

If they were to bring in someone like Allegri, and still come top 4 - as long as they showed a bit of bottle and a sustained crack at the title + a better showing in the Champs League, both entirely possible with the size of club they are. I think the vast majority of gunners fans would be appeased.

No improvement over 10 years is shocking in today's footballing world.

Spot on. They are my team down here (although like you a very distant second place behind The Hibees) but it's the lack of ambition and the general sense of comfortable complacency the fans bemoan. For years they were standing still but now they're actually regressing.

The stadium move was to take the club to the next level - to compete with the likes of Bayern and dare I say it Barca and Real Madrid. It has not happened.

Arsenal have the highest average season ticket prices in England. Which probably means Europe and most likely the world. The outlay of fans is not matched by the level of ambition within the club. Problem is who is the right man to take them forward. There are not that many out there in a position to take it just now. Klopp I thought was the obvious successor but that ship has sailed!

[silverhibee]

https://youtu.be/Td7PLJOGL9E


If you haven't seen Arsenal Fan TV on You Tube, it's very funny: the seethe is amazing. Language warning, though! :greengrin

Getting pwoper nawty!


Neville not a fan of Arsenal Fan TV.

Good wee discussion about Wenger.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyCizaCqyP8

[Hibernia&Alba]

Neville not a fan of Arsenal Fan TV.

Good wee discussion about Wenger.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyCizaCqyP8

I like yon guy Claude on there. Arsenal are killing the poor guy :hilarious

[J-C]

Wenger's aim of top 4 shows his mentality, Fergie would not accept just top 4 he wanted to win every year. That same average mindset crept into Hibs when we were happy just to get top 6, the players started thinking the same and stopped being winners.

[HoboHarry]

Wenger's aim of top 4 shows his mentality, Fergie would not accept just top 4 he wanted to win every year. That same average mindset crept into Hibs when we were happy just to get top 6, the players started thinking the same and stopped being winners.
You genuinely believe that Arsene Wenger begins each season thinking that his only goal is to be in the top four and he has no designs on winning the league?

[Hibernia&Alba]

At his press conference today, Arsene Wenger was asked the time.
quarter past, he replied.
No, it's ten to, said the journalist.


I'll get my jaykit :bye:

[MWHIBBIES]

If he is that top class, why is he out of contract at the end of the season and not been offered a new deal? :hmmm:
Because he is injured and old? Doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

[Smartie]

You genuinely believe that Arsene Wenger begins each season thinking that his only goal is to be in the top four and he has no designs on winning the league?

I do think that Carragher makes a great point on that clip though about winning mentality and the way that the Arsenal squad react to a defeat at Chelsea.

Chelsea (who I personally cannot stand) have a mentality that anything other than success is intolerable and I think it comes from Abramovich down.

You get the feeling that the current Arsenal squad accept that their place is to lose to Chelsea, it doesn't bother them enough. It clearly bothers Sanchez and see what that's led to.

Would the invincibles have tolerated defeat at Chelsea? Henry, Viera, Petit, Bergkamp, Keown, Adams?

I think Wenger starts each season with top four being the main aim, anything else is a bonus and it resonates through the whole club, therefore there is an understanding that certain poor results are acceptable.

Arsenal aren't a Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich or Man Utd but a big London club with their reputation should be appalled at being horsed so heavily at this stage of the competition by Bayern.

A bit like what was mentioned above about our club accepting being top six.

When/if we go up then I wouldn't want the target to be anything less than second, and for all I've not enjoyed other aspects of being in the Championship I like the pressure being on to win each game. In many ways I enjoyed the past 2 seasons more than this one as there were stronger teams in the league and it put more pressure on us to ensure we won (and played well) every week. It's pretty ridiculous that we've been able to get away with being as bad as we've been yet still find ourselves clear at the top.

[jonty]

21 years of top 4 finishes!

always a bridesmaid, never the bride :greengrin

They've had some great teams and games, but never hit #1 consistently enough for me. Even with the odd cup win it feels like they've consistently been second (third/fourth) best.
At least they don't buy their way out of trouble (a-la Chelsea/Man City) overnight and change manager at the slightest hiccup. for that you have to give them some credit.

[J-C]

You genuinely believe that Arsene Wenger begins each season thinking that his only goal is to be in the top four and he has no designs on winning the league?

He did say in one interview that his main goal was to get into the top 4, mediocrity was ok for him, make sure it's top 4 and with a wee bit luck maybe a trophy too, Ferguson went into every season expecting to win the league and also a trophy too, different mindsets, just look at the Man U trophy cabinet.

Wenger is a money manager, a manager the board would love as he looks after the pennies as well as the team, one of his biggest faults as a manager is not spending the money when it's there, he wants to develop players so buys them at a lower price and waits for the plaudits when the player turns into a really good one. That team has been crying out for years on a solid spine, something he's never addressed, the defence is weak and soft.

He was ahead of his time re training and diet was concerned but he's lagging way behind the new modern age managers, he's lost the winning feeling.

[Hibbyradge]

I do think that Carragher makes a great point on that clip though about winning mentality and the way that the Arsenal squad react to a defeat at Chelsea.

Chelsea (who I personally cannot stand) have a mentality that anything other than success is intolerable and I think it comes from Abramovich down.

You get the feeling that the current Arsenal squad accept that their place is to lose to Chelsea, it doesn't bother them enough. It clearly bothers Sanchez and see what that's led to.

Would the invincibles have tolerated defeat at Chelsea? Henry, Viera, Petit, Bergkamp, Keown, Adams?

I think Wenger starts each season with top four being the main aim, anything else is a bonus and it resonates through the whole club, therefore there is an understanding that certain poor results are acceptable.

Arsenal aren't a Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich or Man Utd but a big London club with their reputation should be appalled at being horsed so heavily at this stage of the competition by Bayern.




:agree:

Chelsea sacked Di Matteo just 6 months after he led them to their greatest ever victory, the Champions League. They also won the FA Cup that year and were still 3rd in the league.

Fourth and a CL place is failure to Chelsea. It's success to Arsenal.

If I was an Arsenal season ticket holdet, and the board extended Wenger's contract, I wouldn't renew for next season.

[Hibernia&Alba]

10-2 is the worst aggregate defeat for any British team in the Champions League era.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

No you don't. It's a reflection of transfer activity over a 3 year period. Arsenal have spent plenty, and haven't got any better.

Chelsea habe received numerous very large fees in for players in that time.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I was surprised to learn that Wenger is second best paid manager in the world, at £8.5 million per year.

[DH1875]

Firstly, Sanvhez is an Arsenal player. Take the best players out of any team and they're weakened.

Secondly, "Very close to" means they're not. I was very close to having a hole in one yesterday. :wink:


And if your aunty had baws she'd be your uncle.

Firstly it wasn't me who originally took sanchez out of the squad, it was the poster who's post I was quoting.

Secondly, very close to mid table means exactly that. What is mid table? I reckon they'd finish around about 8th, is that considered mid table or not :dunno:

[Michael]

I was surprised to learn that Wenger is second best paid manager in the world, at £8.5 million per year.

Not that surprising really, he's been at one of the richest clubs for over 20 years.

[Hibbyradge]

removed

The_Exile was disagreeing with you. He was making the point that this forum is also for discussing "football in general", not just Hibs.