Report into Sectarianism

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39179445 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39179445)


Culture of denial over sectarianism in Scotland


Who Knew?

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00514870.pdf
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39179445)


The SPFL and Scottish FA told me that they believe there have been no incidents of mass sectarian singing in Scottish football in the past year. They believe that Scottish football has come a long way since the ‘shame game’ five years ago. They also expressed the view that sectarian singing is not a problem at Scottish games and, in fact, it is the perception of it that is the problem, with this perception being very different from the reality. They believe the media has an important role to play in fuelling the perception of sectarianism in Scottish football and they believe the use of language and terms like ‘battle’ and ‘war’ before big derby matches intensifies the feelings between sets of supporters.



Oh well, that's alright then!! :rolleyes:

[DarlingtonHibee]

Ffs you could not make it up. Disgrace.

[BH Hibs]

And with their denials you have the cause of the problem. No one in charge has the balls or the willingness to deal with it. They'd rather pretend it doesn't exist.

[NthCarolinaHibs]

Hope the boy has his telly on next weekend when the uglies play each other...not to hear the sectarian singing..deary deary me...

[Smartie]

Report : There's a culture of denial around sectarianism in Scottish football.

SFA : Naw there's no.

Pretty much sums it up.

[thebakerboy]

Gather no one from the SFA was at the cup final last May.

[Bostonhibby]

Report : There's a culture of denial around sectarianism in Scottish football.

SFA : Naw there's no.

Pretty much sums it up.
Turkeys definitely don't vote for Xmas.

Maybe sky BT and the BBC will choose to leave the sound up at the ugly sisters match and let the rest of the country draw our own conclusions?

The authorities are either rabbits caught in the headlights or have sympathies with the sectarians songs and "traditions".

Scotlands shame

[NAE NOOKIE]

Wow, that quote above is unbelievable, you cant address a problem by pretending it doesn't exist ... talk about being part of the problem and not the solution.

On that note ..... I was scanning a Hibs thread on Jumbo Sickbag and one of the posters referred to Hibs as "Republican" .... I was pleased to see that more than one poster with reasonably high post counts shouted the guy down on the basis that there's plenty to hate the Hobos for without resorting to that schyte .... good for them, I hope we would do the same:aok:

[Jim44]

If sectarianism was removed completely from the game, Celtic and Sevco would fail to attract the numbers they get. It is fundamental to their existence and ethos. The football authorities are terrified of banning sectarianism because of the financial implications. It's as simple as that.

[WeeRussell]

Deary me.

They are sung by the masses EVERY week without fail. They aren't hard to distinguish at Rangers games either as they have nothing else to sing about these days.. the few times they do pipe up is generally a sectarian number... that, or a polite English/Unionist sing-along.

I'd like to see them with recordings of next week's old firm "songs" being played in front of them and see how they explain the above. Absolute f***ng nonsense.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/topic/305102-the-official-taigs-v-rangers-match-thread/?page=4

Pretty clear to me there is a problem in the title alone. Probably be seen as a spelling mistake by those in charge

[Diclonius]

The SFA needs stripped of the old guard. They are useless.

[Onion]

If sectarianism was removed completely from the game, Celtic and Sevco would fail to attract the numbers they get. It is fundamental to their existence and ethos. The football authorities are terrified of banning sectarianism because of the financial implications. It's as simple as that.

:top marks It's the OF lifeblood. Clubs know it, Government knows it and the authorities know it.

[Jack Hackett]

The SFA needs stripped of the old guard. They are useless.

How to remove them is the problem.

[banarc7062]

And with their denials you have the cause of the problem. No one in charge has the balls or the willingness to deal with it. They'd rather pretend it doesn't exist.

Fully agree and those people govern our game supported by the so called west of Scotland newspapers. GGTTH

[hibee_nation]

I would say Celtc has done quite a good job changing the emphasis from hating the other side to singing pro nationalist songs. Rangers on the other hand are still revelling in the past and everything is about hate and loving being hated.

[Sir David Gray]

I would say Celtc has done quite a good job changing the emphasis from hating the other side to singing pro nationalist songs. Rangers on the other hand are still revelling in the past and everything is about hate and loving being hated.

Describing their songs as nationalist is being a bit liberal with the truth.

[Moulin Yarns]

Gather no one from the SFA was at the cup final last May.

The report is up to and including last years Semi Finals, but the same goes.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Describing their songs as nationalist is being a bit liberal with the truth.

Only a proddy would say that😂😂

[hibbysam]

I would say Celtc has done quite a good job changing the emphasis from hating the other side to singing pro nationalist songs. Rangers on the other hand are still revelling in the past and everything is about hate and loving being hated.

What a load of bull. If you don't think there is any anti-protestant undertone to their songs/actions then I'm seriously worried. Both sides are absolutely vile, but we all know absolutely zilch will be done.

Two people should stand in among them on Sunday, one in the corner with the GB and one in the away end, recording for 90 minutes and then plaster it on Dungcaster's desk on Monday morning and then ask him if he still can't hear it.

[HoboHarry]

What a load of bull. If you don't think there is any anti-protestant undertone to their songs/actions then I'm seriously worried. Both sides are absolutely vile, but we all know absolutely zilch will be done.

Two people should stand in among them on Sunday, one in the corner with the GB and one in the away end, recording for 90 minutes and then plaster it on Dungcaster's desk on Monday morning and then ask him if he still can't hear it.
Don't think it's a load of bull at all. Celtic fans are a long way from being perfect but they are streets ahead of their Sevco counterparts when it comes to embarrassing themselves and Scotland in general.

[Thecat23]

That right there is why Scottish football is and always will be a laughing stock. Embarrassing!

[Dashing Bob S]

Don't think it's a load of bull at all. Celtic fans are a long way from being perfect but they are streets ahead of their Sevco counterparts when it comes to embarrassing themselves and Scotland in general.

At least they've made an effort to move with the times. I think it's partly because Rangers have remained (arguably become more) toxic that it makes sense to separate from them and the OF brand. But they are far less of an embarrassment than Rangers. That club is now a badge of a brain-dead, right-wing, small-town underclass. I've friends from Glasgow who are ordinary football fans and follow Rangers as a family/community thing. They say that the club is so moron-stuffed by sectarian small towners and glory-hunting part-time pantomime bigots that they are now embarrassed about making it known that they are supporters.

[ehf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39179445 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39179445)



Who Knew?

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00514870.pdf
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39179445)



Oh well, that's alright then!! :rolleyes:

Don't think the author of the report (Dr Morrow) has been fooled. Some interesting stuff at the end:


Findings

The review process highlighted the following issues:


The supporting evidence for the association between football and sectarianism remains very strong...

- Discussions with the SPFL and the Scottish FA in relation to tackling sectarianism remain frustratingly circular



Recommendations

I make the following recommendations: 


Change in the approach to displays of sectarianism or the expression of sectarianism in public in Scotland will not occur without change in the culture of football.

The continuing reluctance of the football authorities to demonstrate serious commitment on this issue, means that strict liability must remain a real and present option.

At minimum, a successful outcome must be evidenced by:...
 Measurable evidence that sectarian singing at football matches has reduced and has been replaced by other forms of identification.

[hibbysam]

Don't think it's a load of bull at all. Celtic fans are a long way from being perfect but they are streets ahead of their Sevco counterparts when it comes to embarrassing themselves and Scotland in general.

You really believe that? Yet more Euro fines this season, which happens season after season. It's all hush hush up here as they have people believe that it is Irish Freedom songs rather than anything sinister, however sit with any of them for five minutes and you soon see exactly what they stand for.

[HoboHarry]

You really believe that? Yet more Euro fines this season, which happens season after season. It's all hush hush up here as they have people believe that it is Irish Freedom songs rather than anything sinister, however sit with any of them for five minutes and you soon see exactly what they stand for.
I have sat with them many times and I have sat in Parkhead many times with a Celtic supporting friend of mine - again, I already stated that generally speaking they were far from perfect but if I had to choose between keeping the company of Celtic or Sevco fans I would choose Celtic fans all day long. If there is a collective group of people in Scotland who epitomize everything that is wrong with Scottish culture then Sevco fans for me are the cheerleaders....

[mjhibby]

You really believe that? Yet more Euro fines this season, which happens season after season. It's all hush hush up here as they have people believe that it is Irish Freedom songs rather than anything sinister, however sit with any of them for five minutes and you soon see exactly what they stand for.

The report fits in well with the new world order of alternative facts after trump. Very much like the headbutt between the two Dumbarton players being a coming together. It would be funny if it wasn't so ludicrously untrue. Scotlands eternal shame and embarrassment goes on. I wonder if these songs were being sung by anybody bar the bigot bros would there be some action taken. I think we all know the answer to that. Man will probably land on Mars before the Gfa admit the problem and actually tackle the issue.

[villager]

Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

[Dashing Bob S]

Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

What are 'protestant beliefs' and which schools in Scotland educated kids in them?

[Deansy]

'The focus should move away from naming and shaming individuals or groups'

No probs - the GFA/MEDIA have a practice of denying anything's happpened which saves them from 'Naming & shaming' anyone or anything.

[Elephant Stone]

Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, which is fine, but don't pretend you do. You have no idea what is taught in 'religious schools', if you did you wouldn't be posting utter nonsense like that.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Yes, its those catholics coming over here with their separate schools, that's who's to blame for anti-Irish racism.

[marinello59]

Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Catholic schools are common in England. Why don't they have the same problems?

[Bostonhibby]

Catholic schools are common in England. Why don't they have the same problems?
Amazing isn't it? There's 4 schools where I live. One has Catholic links but the issues that I recognise as features of Scottish sectarianism don't seem to arise. Especially the part associated with celtc and the rangers supporters.

[Pete]

Almost every Celtic away game I hear on the radio is enhanced by the Celtic symphony almost immediately after kick off.

You can argue the toss about how serious the words are but they know what it means.

For every bigoted Sevco opinion you could probably find a Celtic one that detests anything British and people who consider themselves to be British. Guess what, that's a form of bigotry too.

They are both as bad as each other.

[Sir David Gray]

Only a proddy would say that😂😂

Aye ok good one. :aok:

[hibbysam]

Almost every Celtic away game I hear on the radio is enhanced by the Celtic symphony almost immediately after kick off.

You can argue the toss about how serious the words are but they know what it means.

For every bigoted Sevco opinion you could probably find a Celtic one that detests anything British and people who consider themselves to be British. Guess what, that's a form of bigotry too.

They are both as bad as each other.

Absolutely. I have friends on both sides of the fence, majority of which are bigots within their own beliefs. It doesn't bother me, however I took two of said Sellick season ticket holders to a Charlie and the Bhoys night out just last week, and some of the bile that comes out of these organised events is easily as bad as what comes out of an Orange walk, and it's the same songs/chants that get sung at each and every away game. Whether the words/phrases in the songs actually portray sectarianism, the undertone of the songs have that very meaning, and to deny this is extremely ignorant.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Once upon a time there were sectarian issues (catholic/prod nature) in England with Liverpool being the prime example. Where there was even a Prodestant action party that had elected MPs at Westminster.
Over the decades these issues have melted away down south partly because the social and cultural links between N.Ireland and England are nowhere as strong as they are with the west of Scotland and also because in general England is far more diverse and multi cultural than your average Scottish town/area.
At least in Scotland we don't have ethnic ghettos which is now the norm in the north of England where white and asian people don't live side by side, don't work together and no longer go to school together... The problems in Blackburn or Oldham are far greater than the problems in Paisley or Airdrie.

[jgl07]

Wow, that quote above is unbelievable, you cant address a problem by pretending it doesn't exist ... talk about being part of the problem and not the solution.

On that note ..... I was scanning a Hibs thread on Jumbo Sickbag and one of the posters referred to Hibs as "Republican" .... I was pleased to see that more than one poster with reasonably high post counts shouted the guy down on the basis that there's plenty to hate the Hobos for without resorting to that schyte .... good for them, I hope we would do the same:aok:
Makes a change from being called Fenians!

[Kato]

Once upon a time there were sectarian issues (catholic/prod nature) in England with Liverpool being the prime example.

Never heard of this, could you expand?


Where there was even a Prodestant action party that had elected MPs at Westminster.

>protestant<

Protesant Action had some seats on the council in Edinburgh, don't they ever ran for Westminster never mind having an MP.

[littleplum]

Never heard of this, could you expand?



>protestant<

Protesant Action had some seats on the council in Edinburgh, don't they ever ran for Westminster never mind having an MP.

There was a Liverpool Protestant Party that stood in a number of national elections pre-WWII with a not insignificant share of the vote (although never actually won). They continued to have councillors up until the 1970s. Still enough nonsense in the 1990s for the DUP to consider setting up a branch there (although I don't think it came to anything)- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/252606.stm

[Bishop Hibee]

Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Would you care to provide data backing this up? Oh, that's right, you won't because their isn't any. For what it's worth the RC schools in most parts of Edinburgh are a multi-cultural mix of kids of all religions and none. Ironically more religiously diverse than their non-denominational neighbours.

Back to football, I actually think that fans of The Rangers seem more bigoted than the last days of the old version. Sad. As for Celtc fans, rebel songs at the games are so last millennium. Bad.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Think that bbc link provides you with some evidence Kato. From what I remember hearing the districts in Liverpool closest to the Mersey were mostly catholic and inland areas were mostly protestant.
Before WW2 the divisions in the city were quite stark but the impact the war had on the city, such as the docks and the mainly catholic areas nearby being blitzed by the Germans, brought the communities together. The cultural impact of the 50s & 60s such as the Beatles also changed the city greatly.

[Smartie]

I was speaking to my Mum and Dad recently about the "Who do you think you are" programme.

They said there was a good episode with Ricky Tomlinson on it and he could trace his family back to both sides, which was unusual.

One of the things they said on the programme was that the divide fell when the workers realised that by standing together they had more clout when standing up to the bosses (presumably at the docks) rather than fighting amongst themselves.

Quite why this didn't happen in Glasgow I don't know.

Although I strongly believe that the existence of the Glasgow football clubs, their "USP" and the fact that they dominate off the back of it has continued to propagate "Scotland's shame" for well over half a century longer than it was really ever acceptable or understandable.

[IWasThere2016]

I emailed Sturgeon after bile at Well-Rangers a few weeks back. Clearly heard the usual anti-"Fenian" crap .. 3 weeks on the reply was report it to the Polis.. like that makes an iota!

[beensaidbefore]

Describing their songs as nationalist is being a bit liberal with the truth.

The issue for me is they are nationalist songs, but for another bloody country and era. Wtf has Bobby sands got to do with Scottish football? Exactly the same as king Billy. The sooner we compile a list of banned ditties and fine the bigger Bros every time we hear them, the sooner we will be rid. Not before.

Anyone good at holding their breath?

[jgl07]

Protesant Action had some seats on the council in Edinburgh, don't they ever ran for Westminster never mind having an MP.
The Protestant Party had lots of seats on Liverpool City Council right up to the 1960s losing its last one in 1973. They stood a candidate, Reverend H. D. Longbottom, in the Liverpool Kirkdale seat for Westminster elections from 1931 until 1945, collecting 25% of the vote in 1931.

It is comparatively recently that the Conservatives in Liverpool started using blue as their campaign colour rather than orange.

Liverpool returned an Irish Nationalist MP, T P O'Connor, for the Liverpool Scotland Constituency from 1885 to 1929.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Makes a change from being called Fenians!

As a guy who just loves the entertainment of reading some of the utter pish posted about Hibs and the fine folk who support the club on Jumbo Sickbag I can honestly say I have never seen any post on that site that directly referred to Hibs fans as 'Fenians'

Thankfully it seems to me that the vast majority of fans of both clubs are happy to leave all that rubbish to the west side of the country .... we perhaps have a tiny minority who don't think that's way and the Yams perhaps a little bit more than that. But if you ask me its credit to BOTH supports that for all we have a heated and sometimes bitter rivalry we can sustain a decent amount of distain for each other without bringing religion into it, the odd idiot excepted.

Anyway .... If you want a non football vehicle to separate the two clubs I'm quite a fan of the growing number of posts I see on Sickbag where the Yams actually seem to revel in their tag of the 'establishment club' ..... If that leaves Hibs as the 'non establishment' club that'll do for me :greengrin

[Kato]

There was a Liverpool Protestant Party that stood in a number of national elections pre-WWII with a not insignificant share of the vote (although never actually won). They continued to have councillors up until the 1970s. Still enough nonsense in the 1990s for the DUP to consider setting up a branch there (although I don't think it came to anything)- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/252606.stm


The Protestant Party had lots of seats on Liverpool City Council right up to the 1960s losing its last one in 1973. They stood a candidate, Reverend H. D. Longbottom, in the Liverpool Kirkdale seat for Westminster elections from 1931 until 1945, collecting 25% of the vote in 1931.

It is comparatively recently that the Conservatives in Liverpool started using blue as their campaign colour rather than orange.

Liverpool returned an Irish Nationalist MP, T P O'Connor, for the Liverpool Scotland Constituency from 1885 to 1929.

Cheers, guys.

[Vini1875]

Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Non-sense, only Scotland and the North of Ireland seem to have a problem with Catholic schools, England and Wales have faith schools and no sectarian problem to speak of. The school issue is a red herring. If you want to go down that route why not just ban churches, mosques, synagogues and temples of any creed?

Scottish Football has improved, maybe not fast enough, but it has improved.

[bigwheel]

Describing their songs as nationalist is being a bit liberal with the truth.

They sings nationalist and songs of "freedom"...out of the stadium they, I'm sure some, sing songs in support of the IRA, their martyrs etc ...

Distasteful to many

I've never heard them for a long long time song any anti- Protestant songs

For me, that's the main difference between Celtic vs Rangers...Rangers fans almost always sing anti- catholic related songs

Celtic sing songs that are more political based - but rarely (if ever??) sing religious based sectarian songs

[Waxy]

It will never change until they admit to themselves they have a problem.I'm sure if they could be as passionate about their football clubs as they are about religion then the Glasgow derby wouldnt lose any atmosphere.
They only need look across to Edinburgh.

[WhileTheChief..]

Fed up hearing about 'Scotlands shame'.

It's nothing of the sort. It's an old firm issue, nothing else.

No one outside of Scotland gives a damn. The majority of people living in Scotland don't give a damn either.

[ancient hibee]

I'm fed up reading in this and other reports that football is guilty of allowing the spread of sectarianism.This is an issue that involves two clubs and two clubs only and it is high time that the reports tell it as it is Instead of tarring us all with the same brush.

[Keith_M]

The SFA and SPFL have arranged an Inquiry into sectarianism at Celtc and The Rangers and have already appointed the committee that will conduct the investigation.




https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/57/f7/23/57f723627f8433f6758244df385fb039.jpg

[Is It On....]

If the authorities think sectarianism doesn't exist they should have a wee look at the Bears Den...some of the stuff posted is appalling.

[Sir David Gray]

They sings nationalist and songs of "freedom"...out of the stadium they, I'm sure some, sing songs in support of the IRA, their martyrs etc ...

Distasteful to many

I've never heard them for a long long time song any anti- Protestant songs

For me, that's the main difference between Celtic vs Rangers...Rangers fans almost always sing anti- catholic related songs

Celtic sing songs that are more political based - but rarely (if ever??) sing religious based sectarian songs

I must have misheard them singing about various Rangers managers being "sad proddy *******s" then.

They routinely sing songs in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation and in my view, that's just as bad as the songs that come out of the stands at Ibrox every other week.

[Onion]

The SFA and SPFL have arranged an Inquiry into sectarianism at Celtc and The Rangers and have already appointed the committee that will conduct the investigation.




https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/57/f7/23/57f723627f8433f6758244df385fb039.jpg

So, they can prove to Sky and BT that bigotry is alive and well and will continue to fuel the "special atmosphere" that the TV companies desire. Without it, the money dries up.

[Keith_M]

I must have misheard them singing about various Rangers managers being "sad proddy *******s" then.

They routinely sing songs in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation and in my view, that's just as bad as the songs that come out of the stands at Ibrox every other week.


:agree:



While the number of vile songs they sing at home games pales in comparison to their Bigot Twin across the city, they still have their full vile repertoire and belt it out on their travels.


The 'freedom fighters' crap isn't fooling anybody either and they need to give that a rest.

[bigwheel]

I must have misheard them singing about various Rangers managers being "sad proddy *******s" then.

They routinely sing songs in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation and in my view, that's just as bad as the songs that come out of the stands at Ibrox every other week.


it's impossible to get agreement on topics like this...so, I suspect I'll bow out of this. I've no love for many of the songs Celtic sing, but whilst distasteful, they are rarely religious in there nature. That is not the case of Rangers fans - who are dominantly religious in their nature.


...There were many protestants that supported (and, likely still do) the notion of a free Ireland.

[Just Alf]

At least they've made an effort to move with the times. I think it's partly because Rangers have remained (arguably become more) toxic that it makes sense to separate from them and the OF brand. But they are far less of an embarrassment than Rangers. That club is now a badge of a brain-dead, right-wing, small-town underclass. I've friends from Glasgow who are ordinary football fans and follow Rangers as a family/community thing. They say that the club is so moron-stuffed by sectarian small towners and glory-hunting part-time pantomime bigots that they are now embarrassed about making it known that they are supporters.
You've just described my dad... as in he's one of the embarrassed ones I hasten to add!

GGTTH

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

it's impossible to get agreement on topics like this...so, I suspect I'll bow out of this. I've no love for many of the songs Celtic sing, but whilst distasteful, they are rarely religious in there nature. That is not the case of Rangers fans - who are dominantly religious in their nature.


...There were many protestants that supported (and, likely still do) the notion of a free Ireland.

Think we can all agree that most of what both sides of the Old Firm sing about has no relevance to football or Scotland in 2017. That's the crux of the point for me, rather than a political v sectarian discussion.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Its an interesting discussion, but ome that is hard to have without quite entrenched views coming out.

FWIW i think part of the problem is that the powers that be dont or wont face up to the truth, which is that one side are now FAR worse than the other.

Sure, celtic have some idiots, and i have no doubt that many still wallow in the 'provos' stuff - and that is distasteful to most.

The difference in view is that you wont really hear stuff like that at their home games anymore. Celtic made a concerted effort to rid themselves, or at least tone it down and bring it into the maimstream. Of course this doesnt mean that all celtic fans have left it all behind, but the actual club have made huge strides.

Rangers are the opposite, and in recent years they have gone out of their way to stoke it all up, amd their fans regularly belt out songs that are racist and sectarian - being against something is still intrinsic to their DNA. They arent for anything. Their mindset mirrors the unionists in NI imo, in that as they become more marginalised, and threatened, they become more bilious.

But the SFA, bbc etc will never call them out on it, and will instead hide behind the tired and outdated cliche that 'they are both as bad as each other' which i think any objective analysis would show to be not true.

[Joe6-2]

I'm (almost) speechless!

[Smartie]

It would be interesting to hear what Hearts fans made of this though.

We get an easier ride from Celtic fans as they see us as "like" them, and get a hard time from Sevconians for the opposite reason.

The Celtic/ Hearts games are pretty tasty and I'd imagine the Hearts fans would have a different opinion on the progress that Celtic have made.

I don't think we can really let a support who were hanging effigies of orangemen at games only 6 months or so ago off the sectarianism hook that lightly.

[bigwheel]

It would be interesting to hear what Hearts fans made of this though.

We get an easier ride from Celtic fans as they see us as "like" them, and get a hard time from Sevconians for the opposite reason.

The Celtic/ Hearts games are pretty tasty and I'd imagine the Hearts fans would have a different opinion on the progress that Celtic have made.

I don't think we can really let a support who were hanging effigies of orangemen at games only 6 months or so ago off the sectarianism hook that lightly.

Did they do that ? I can only recall seeing them hang blow up dolls with rangers scarfs on ...mind you maybe that's the same thing !! [emoji2]

[Sir David Gray]

Did they do that ? I can only recall seeing them hang blow up dolls with rangers scarfs on ...mind you maybe that's the same thing !! [emoji2]

I think the insinuations were fairly obvious.

[Kavinho]

I'd love for someone to try and document the songs from both sides and get something a bit more factual about what is now being sung down on paper.

The only tunes that really stand out in my mind by name that are outright sectarian are the Billy Boys and the famine song (that was a bit more prevelant a few years back in fairness).

Sitting here now, I can't really think of the Celtic equivalents of those 2.

--

The Good Friday Agreement ultimately, I believe at least, played a part in the toning down of agressive Irish Nationalist songs.

N.I. and Republican (geographically speaking) Irish supporters don't go as mad as they once did and perhaps the has been better self regulation by fans that are less psychopathic than in years gone by

For Unionist N.I. supporters, there is still a perception of a need to defend against the further erosion of their view of the union.

I think that societally, this mentality carries through to football chants, and why there is, to my mind, a difference now in the 2 sides approach.


Whataboutery, and the 2 cheeks stuff is all a bit lazy and easy & lumps them all together, but I do think theres a perceptible difference now.

All in my humble analytical opinion of course..


Would still love to see some song names down though. .!

[Mr White]

I'd love for someone to try and document the songs from both sides and get something a bit more factual about what is now being sung down on paper.

The only tunes that really stand out in my mind by name that are outright sectarian are the Billy Boys and the famine song (that was a bit more prevelant a few years back in fairness).

Sitting here now, I can't really think of the Celtic equivalents of those 2.

--

The Good Friday Agreement ultimately, I believe at least, played a part in the toning down of agressive Irish Nationalist songs.

N.I. and Republican (geographically speaking) Irish supporters don't go as mad as they once did and perhaps the has been better self regulation by fans that are less psychopathic than in years gone by

For Unionist N.I. supporters, there is still a perception of a need to defend against the further erosion of their view of the union.

I think that societally, this mentality carries through to football chants, and why there is, to my mind, a difference now in the 2 sides approach.


Whataboutery, and the 2 cheeks stuff is all a bit lazy and easy & lumps them all together, but I do think theres a perceptible difference now.

All in my humble analytical opinion of course..


Would still love to see some song names down though. .!
Look up the lyrics to No Pope of Rome.

[bigwheel]

I think the insinuations were fairly obvious.

Not to me they weren't. why would that be linked to the orange lodge ?

[Smartie]

Did they do that ? I can only recall seeing them hang blow up dolls with rangers scarfs on ...mind you maybe that's the same thing !! [emoji2]

I seem to remember 2 blow up dolls, 1 with a Rangers scarf and the other with an orange sash.

http://http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/celtic-rangers-row-over-effigies-and-wrecking-spree-at-old-firm-clash-35040856.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/celtic-rangers-row-over-effigies-and-wrecking-spree-at-old-firm-clash-35040856.html)

[Kavinho]

Look up the lyrics to No Pope of Rome.

Aye but is that one heard at games?

[Mr White]

Aye but is that one heard at games?

Yup. Has been for years.

[Sir David Gray]

Not to me they weren't. why would that be linked to the orange lodge ?

At least one of the dolls was wearing a sash and their hands were tied around their backs which was apparently done to mimic what happened to prisoners of the IRA who were about to be executed.

[Kavinho]

Yup. Has been for years.


Is it Still heard though. .? I rarely go to Ibrox, and can't say I hear it on the telly games


Assuming yes, that's 3-0 and counting !

[Sir David Gray]

Is it Still heard though. .? I rarely go to Ibrox, and can't say I hear it on the telly games


Assuming yes, that's 3-0 and counting !

No Pope of Rome has been heard regularly at Sevco games this season.

[Mr White]

Is it Still heard though. .? I rarely go to Ibrox, and can't say I hear it on the telly games


Assuming yes, that's 3-0 and counting !

Yes it is. I'd suggest most of the songs sevco sing reference religious hatred or UK politics in some way. Even when they come up with one for one of their own like Andy Halliday they feel the need to shoe horn in a reference to hating the Pope and the IRA.

I suppose that actually tells you all you need to know about their "culture" come to think of it.

[Kavinho]

Yes it is. I'd suggest most of the songs sevco sing reference religious hatred or UK politics in some way. Even when they come up with one for one of their own like Andy Halliday they feel the need to shoe horn in a reference to hating the Pope and the IRA.

I suppose that actually tells you all you need to know about their "culture" come to think of it.

So what's the celtic equivalents then?
Trying to be as even handed in this.

[Sir David Gray]

So what's the celtic equivalents then?
Trying to be as even handed in this.

They used to sing a wonderful ballad about Nacho Novo in the not too distant past.

[Mr White]

So what's the celtic equivalents then?
Trying to be as even handed in this.

I'm not sure tbh. As others have already stated, their songs glorifying the actions of men using guns and homemade explosives in densely populated urban areas are equally abhorrent (in my opinion at least) but I don't see an equivalent hatred of all things non catholic or republican to match the bile that the rangers (often literally) wear as a badge of honour.

I'm not defending Celtc fans here btw, just saying I think they're not quite as bad as the other lot when it comes to this pitiful neanderthal pish.

[Bishop Hibee]

So what's the celtic equivalents then?
Trying to be as even handed in this.

Celtc fans (and until the mid 80's Hibs fans) have sung "Roamin' in the Gloamin'" which has lyrics abusing King Billy and John Knox. I haven't heard it being sung by Celtc fans in years though. I may be wrong.

[bigwheel]

Celtc fans (and until the mid 80's Hibs fans) have sung "Roamin' in the Gloamin'" which has lyrics abusing King Billy and John Knox. I haven't heard it being sung by Celtc fans in years though. I may be wrong.

I think that's the point people are making on here - there has been a marked change in the songs and attitudes around the mainstream Celtic fans in this regard - yet not the case at Ibrox

[Thecat23]

Unless clubs start reporting it and putting in formal complaints with the police nothing will happen. Hibs along with every other club who's played them and heard it are just as bad for not reporting it. *****bags everyone of them sadly.

[Kavinho]

I'm not sure tbh. As others have already stated, their songs glorifying the actions of men using guns and homemade explosives in densely populated urban areas are equally abhorrent (in my opinion at least) but I don't see an equivalent hatred of all things non catholic or republican to match the bile that the rangers (often literally) wear as a badge of honour.

I'm not defending Celtc fans here btw, just saying I think they're not quite as bad as the other lot when it comes to this pitiful neanderthal pish.


That last bit is pretty much the point I'm slowly making.

A song about Nacho Novo from a few years ago, and a tune popular in the 80s v 3 present day ditties.

[Mr White]

That last bit is pretty much the point I'm slowly making.

A song about Nacho Novo from a few years ago, and a tune popular in the 80s v 3 present day ditties.

There's no winners in that contest between a pair of losers.

[Kavinho]

Don't disagree.

[brog]

The point that continually gets missed in debates of this nature, interesting though it is, is that The Establishment have a vested interest in keeping sectarianism, or any other ism which does the job, alive & kicking. It's the classic divide & rule situation. In Scotland the Tories didn't really exist as a political party until the 60's. They stood as The Unionist Party for parliament & mostly as The Progressive Party in local government. The Unionist by the way referred to Ireland, not to Scotland. Once Unionists were elected they took the Conservative whip at Westminster. This tactic worked for many years, even in the Labour landslide of 1945, 5 Unionist MP's were elected in Glasgow. In NI things were much worse. In the 1964 election Labour had a tiny majority of 4, partly because every single MP in NI was Unionist. A solid working class city like Belfast voted exclusively on sectarian lines. If you can split the majority vote the privileged minority will continue to flourish. Things are of course much better now, partly through education & the redrawing of gerrymandered boundaries in NI. As someone else posted out however, expecting the Scottish football hierarchy to take proper action, is effectively asking them to relinquish their positions of authority & that's not going to happen if they can help it.

[WS Hibs]

I'd love for someone to try and document the songs from both sides and get something a bit more factual about what is now being sung down on paper.

Outright and blatant sectarian Rangers songs (IMO and happy to be challenged on any of them):
The Billy Boys - being up to their knees in fenian blood no less. Disgrace of a song, no place for it.
No Pope of Rome - as someone else said, google the lyrics. Definitely was sung at Kilmarnock earlier in the season.
Follow Follow - although only when sung with the "f*** the Pope and the Vatican" lyrics.
The Famine Song - that one has largely died down now, thankfully.
Andy Halliday song - celebrating that "he hates the Pope" says it all.
Cheer up Alan Stubbs - "sad fenian *******" getting belted out at Hampden last May, thank f*** it had a happy ending.

Outright and blatant sectarian Celtic songs:
Cheer up Mark Warburton - "sad orange *******" during the 5-1 back in September.
The Tim Malloys - "we shall be mastered, by no orange *******", usually sung before European games.

There are then songs like the Sash and No Surrender that I'd feel a bit queasy about singing myself, but aren't sectarian (or at least in a way that attacks the other side). Rangers fans also try to claim that "go home ya huns" is sectarian, but they know full well that the word hun is not sectarian and they are simply trying to get leverage so that they can get away with calling Celtic and ourselves fenians.

This post reads like it's admonishing Celtic, but I want to emphaise that I'm not trying to. Celtic more overtly support proscribed terrorist organisations - one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter etc. but that's a debate for another day - but that in itself isn't a sectarian stance.

As you touched upon, I think that main reason why Rangers look like the more guilty party these days is because they're desperately trying to cling on to the past, where saying/singing some of these things was acceptable and they wouldn't be (rightly) called a bigot for singing their "party songs." They are slowly losing though, even if the media and football assocation in Scotland are utterly gutless to call them out on it. Their board need the "orange pound", so to speak, and will happily continue propping up such bigotry if it is profitable to their club.

[Johnny Clash]

I've always thought there's a massive difference between Celtic supporters and the Sevcos. A cup final v Celtic may still have flash points of trouble but a final against Sevco would see mayhem fuelled on their side by the most appalling, ignorant hateful zombiesque attitudes. Hibs v Paris Buns would presumably mean all police leave cancelled in Scotland.

I know people still use 'two cheeks' and 'ugly sisters' references but I've experienced enough to know that it just ain't so. Sevconians are the worst of the worst!

[Smartie]

I remember only hearing about the existence of the "no pope of Rome" song a couple of years ago and couldn't work out if I'd ever heard Rangers fans singing it or not.

To find out I typed it into youtube and listened to it (and no, I didn't recognise it).

For a while afterwards I got nothing but Loyalist/ Unionist tunes plastered with loyalist flags on them on the "videos you may be interested in" column down the right hand side, and every now and again I still get one.

I had a wee bit of explaining to do to Mrs Smartie when she went on looking up something else, that is for sure.

[Mr White]

I remember only hearing about the existence of the "no pope of Rome" song a couple of years ago and couldn't work out if I'd ever heard Rangers fans singing it or not.

To find out I typed it into youtube and listened to it (and no, I didn't recognise it).

For a while afterwards I got nothing but Loyalist/ Unionist tunes plastered with loyalist flags on them on the "videos you may be interested in" column down the right hand side, and every now and again I still get one.

I had a wee bit of explaining to do to Mrs Smartie when she went on looking up something else, that is for sure.

One of my earliest football memories involves standing outside the old main stand at easter road with my dad in the late 80s while rangers fans walked past singing no pope of rome. It stuck in my mind because I misheard what they were singing and remember asking why they were singing about sand in their eyes.

[majorhibs]

I've always thought there's a massive difference between Celtic supporters and the Sevcos. A cup final v Celtic may still have flash points of trouble but a final against Sevco would see mayhem fuelled on their side by the most appalling, ignorant hateful zombiesque attitudes. Hibs v Paris Buns would presumably mean all police leave cancelled in Scotland.

I know people still use 'two cheeks' and 'ugly sisters' references but I've experienced enough to know that it just ain't so. Sevconians are the worst of the worst!

Yer on it there. I have experienced enough, been splattered enough as a kid 13/14, nose everywhere by 4 adults, chased out of greyskull & stomped as a schoolkid, cups of piss thrown down on, darts coming down, the list goes on & on, but that is one heavily hating support. Worst of the worst, which is something the neanderthals that used to beat up us school kids in the 70s, & have just continued doing to anyone they can get away with it against, regular enough with Glesgae Polis blind eyes, revel in, listen, the so called "reasonable" element of that "teams" support, if they saw what the real bad eggs in their groups outnumbering victims sometimes 10-1 etc were up to, ? Ach who cares. As said here, worst of worst.

[ehf]

Outright and blatant sectarian Rangers songs (IMO and happy to be challenged on any of them):
The Billy Boys - being up to their knees in fenian blood no less. Disgrace of a song, no place for it.
No Pope of Rome - as someone else said, google the lyrics. Definitely was sung at Kilmarnock earlier in the season.
Follow Follow - although only when sung with the "f*** the Pope and the Vatican" lyrics.
The Famine Song - that one has largely died down now, thankfully.
Andy Halliday song - celebrating that "he hates the Pope" says it all.
Cheer up Alan Stubbs - "sad fenian *******" getting belted out at Hampden last May, thank f*** it had a happy ending.

Outright and blatant sectarian Celtic songs:
Cheer up Mark Warburton - "sad orange *******" during the 5-1 back in September.
The Tim Malloys - "we shall be mastered, by no orange *******", usually sung before European games.

There are then songs like the Sash and No Surrender that I'd feel a bit queasy about singing myself, but aren't sectarian (or at least in a way that attacks the other side). Rangers fans also try to claim that "go home ya huns" is sectarian, but they know full well that the word hun is not sectarian and they are simply trying to get leverage so that they can get away with calling Celtic and ourselves fenians.

This post reads like it's admonishing Celtic, but I want to emphaise that I'm not trying to. Celtic more overtly support proscribed terrorist organisations - one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter etc. but that's a debate for another day - but that in itself isn't a sectarian stance.

As you touched upon, I think that main reason why Rangers look like the more guilty party these days is because they're desperately trying to cling on to the past, where saying/singing some of these things was acceptable and they wouldn't be (rightly) called a bigot for singing their "party songs." They are slowly losing though, even if the media and football assocation in Scotland are utterly gutless to call them out on it. Their board need the "orange pound", so to speak, and will happily continue propping up such bigotry if it is profitable to their club.

You don't consider The Sash and No Surrender to be sectarian? I would strongly disagree. And both are still routinely belted out by the Sevco hordes.

[WS Hibs]

You don't consider The Sash and No Surrender to be sectarian? I would strongly disagree. And both are still routinely belted out by the Sevco hordes.

I probably should've phrased that better, they aren't illegally sectarian - despite being deeply divisive. They don't particularly mention the other side, only celebrating their dark side. :rolleyes:

[silverhibee]

Did they do that ? I can only recall seeing them hang blow up dolls with rangers scarfs on ...mind you maybe that's the same thing !! [emoji2]

And was it coincidence that a ex Rangers player family member had passed away only a few days before the game, after committing suicide.

What really goes through these folks heads that they can do things like that.

[silverhibee]

I'm not sure tbh. As others have already stated, their songs glorifying the actions of men using guns and homemade explosives in densely populated urban areas are equally abhorrent (in my opinion at least) but I don't see an equivalent hatred of all things non catholic or republican to match the bile that the rangers (often literally) wear as a badge of honour.

I'm not defending Celtc fans here btw, just saying I think they're not quite as bad as the other lot when it comes to this pitiful neanderthal pish.

Certainly not at home games, but when they go on there travels "ooh ahh up the Ra" is popular and just are as bad as the blue bigots.

[silverhibee]

Unless clubs start reporting it and putting in formal complaints with the police nothing will happen. Hibs along with every other club who's played them and heard it are just as bad for not reporting it. *****bags everyone of them sadly.

Clubs will not do anything about it, that's a cert, just my thoughts on it, but the only people that can do anything about it to get something done is the rest of the fans in Scotland who are fed up of the pish that comes from the 2 teams from Glasgow every other week, we witness it when they come to ER, pishing in the street, singing there songs in the streets and inside pubs that they takeover, and the Police stand by and let it happen every time even though they make a big deal before it that these things won't be excepted and the Police will come down heavy on the offenders, and they are just warming up for the bigot fest that will take place in away grounds each week.

Time for fans to start putting pressure on the clubs they support that they are fed up with this s*** every week and they need to do something about it and fans demand that all the other clubs make it quite clear that what we are hearing at grounds and on TV is not showing Scottish football in a good light and something needs to be done to eradicate it from football grounds every week, if the SFA/SPFL want us to buy in to the "show racism the red card" then fans of every other club should be letting it be known in the the stands "that sectarianism is not acceptable in 2017" to the SFA/SPFL to buy in to it, the media/press would report on it and it just might embarrass the idiots who are running our game who seem to think that this stuff is fake news.

[silverhibee]

Yer on it there. I have experienced enough, been splattered enough as a kid 13/14, nose everywhere by 4 adults, chased out of greyskull & stomped as a schoolkid, cups of piss thrown down on, darts coming down, the list goes on & on, but that is one heavily hating support. Worst of the worst, which is something the neanderthals that used to beat up us school kids in the 70s, & have just continued doing to anyone they can get away with it against, regular enough with Glesgae Polis blind eyes, revel in, listen, the so called "reasonable" element of that "teams" support, if they saw what the real bad eggs in their groups outnumbering victims sometimes 10-1 etc were up to, ? Ach who cares. As said here, worst of worst.


It was just as bad going to Darkheid in the old terrace, where i was hit with a bottle over my head, you were surrounded by 1000,s of Celtc fans who just wanted to attack you and you spent most of the game trying to dodge missiles, and as soon as you showed a bit aggression back towards them then that's when glesgae polis would make an appearance and steam in to the Hibs fans, you don't get that now as we are protected in the corner, but it still continues at bigotbrox as we are open to a 3 pronged attack from either sides and from above as well, there has to be a major concern for Hibs fans the next time we visit that ground.

[mjhibby]

Clubs will not do anything about it, that's a cert, just my thoughts on it, but the only people that can do anything about it to get something done is the rest of the fans in Scotland who are fed up of the pish that comes from the 2 teams from Glasgow every other week, we witness it when they come to ER, pishing in the street, singing there songs in the streets and inside pubs that they takeover, and the Police stand by and let it happen every time even though they make a big deal before it that these things won't be excepted and the Police will come down heavy on the offenders, and they are just warming up for the bigot fest that will take place in away grounds each week.

Time for fans to start putting pressure on the clubs they support that they are fed up with this s*** every week and they need to do something about it and fans demand that all the other clubs make it quite clear that what we are hearing at grounds and on TV is not showing Scottish football in a good light and something needs to be done to eradicate it from football grounds every week, if the SFA/SPFL want us to buy in to the "show racism the red card" then fans of every other club should be letting it be known in the the stands "that sectarianism is not acceptable in 2017" to the SFA/SPFL to buy in to it, the media/press would report on it and it just might embarrass the idiots who are running our game who seem to think that this stuff is fake news.

The behaviour of the bigot bros fans is unacceptable on every level but unfortunately it only reflects what happens everyday in the West of Scotland and places like prestonpans. Until we break the cycle of kids brought up into the bigotfest then nothing will change. The only small silver lining is that they will never get to go to the epl as they won't want after sevcos behaviour in Manchester. I will not take my son to see Celtic,sevco or Hertz due to the vile singing and atmosphere. They are an utter embarrassment to scotland.

[ColinNish]

The behaviour of the bigot bros fans is unacceptable on every level but unfortunately it only reflects what happens everyday in the West of Scotland and places like prestonpans. Until we break the cycle of kids brought up into the bigotfest then nothing will change. The only small silver lining is that they will never get to go to the epl as they won't want after sevcos behaviour in Manchester. I will not take my son to see Celtic,sevco or Hertz due to the vile singing and atmosphere. They are an utter embarrassment to scotland.
Prestonpans????

[heretoday]

Prestonpans????

"Places like Prestonpans" - Port Seton?

[Hibby70]

Prestonpans????

It does have walls to guard mind you.

[heretoday]

It does have walls to guard mind you.

And it is old but it is beautiful....

[Bostonhibby]

Been following this thread with some interest and its changed my opinion of the OF a little, instead of regarding them as two cheeks of the same erse I now regard them as two cheeks of a broadly similar erse but the the rangers cheek is a bit more deformed and pimply than the celtc one.

[Just Alf]

Been following this thread with some interest and its changed my opinion of the OF a little, instead of regarding them as two cheeks of the same erse I now regard them as two cheeks of a broadly similar erse but the the rangers cheek is a bit more deformed and pimply than the celtc one.

Ha ha! Perfect summary :thumbsup:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Been following this thread with some interest and its changed my opinion of the OF a little, instead of regarding them as two cheeks of the same erse I now regard them as two cheeks of a broadly similar erse but the the rangers cheek is a bit more deformed and pimply than the celtc one.

Ha ha, nicely put!

[WeeRussell]

Reminds me a little of the 'best player in the world' argument.. although this is a negative version.

A lot of people will tell you Messi is a good bit ahead of Ronaldo, but Ronaldo is a good bit ahead of the rest.

The Rangers, for me, are the most detestable sports club in the entire world. It doesn't mean Celtic are okay.

[Carheenlea]

It seems the singing of songs at football matches are the highest profile examples of sectarian behaviour in Scotland. It's all a bit school playground, and arguments about who is more sectarian than another just adds to the pantomime of it all.
I know folk who follow Rangers and Celtic and enjoy chanting along to the tiresome song sheet, but none really appear to hold strong views on what they are singing about. It's all part of supporting the old firm, and I really don't get too offended by it all.

[Waxy]

Is singing of songs the height of it though? Teams fans will fight when there's no religion involved at all. After an old firm game they'll just go back about there normal life? Do they all mix with each other and are back to being pals again right after the match? If so maybe there is hope and it'll fade away to nothing through time.

[surreyhibbie]

Prestonpans????

There used to be a delightful hostelry there, called the CastlePark Social Club officially, but known to all as "Billy's Bar" where anyone not of the Bluenose variety was made very unwelcome, shall we say...

No idea if it still exists, I seem to remember Committee member(s) being involved in some dodgy dealings with friends in NI...

[WeeRussell]

It seems the singing of songs at football matches are the highest profile examples of sectarian behaviour in Scotland. It's all a bit school playground, and arguments about who is more sectarian than another just adds to the pantomime of it all.
I know folk who follow Rangers and Celtic and enjoy chanting along to the tiresome song sheet, but none really appear to hold strong views on what they are singing about. It's all part of supporting the old firm, and I really don't get too offended by it all.

As do I. I bet the majority wouldn't chant along if the bigoted lyrics were aimed at people's skin colour.

It doesn't personally offend me, but nothing much does... still doesn't make it right. It's both disgusting and embarrassing what goes on.

[Killiehibbie]

It seems the singing of songs at football matches are the highest profile examples of sectarian behaviour in Scotland. It's all a bit school playground, and arguments about who is more sectarian than another just adds to the pantomime of it all.
I know folk who follow Rangers and Celtic and enjoy chanting along to the tiresome song sheet, but none really appear to hold strong views on what they are singing about. It's all part of supporting the old firm, and I really don't get too offended by it all.I wish I had recordings of some of the hatred I heard spouted during taxi journeys from both sides of the sectarian divide. They might look and sound respectable most of the time but they're not. People go on about football being the only place it's heard but it goes on all the time.

[JimBHibees]

Is singing of songs the height of it though? Teams fans will fight when there's no religion involved at all. After an old firm game they'll just go back about there normal life? Do they all mix with each other and are back to being pals again right after the match? If so maybe there is hope and it'll fade away to nothing through time.

I think the Ambulance service would confirm that isnt the case.

[beensaidbefore]

Unless clubs start reporting it and putting in formal complaints with the police nothing will happen. Hibs along with every other club who's played them and heard it are just as bad for not reporting it. *****bags everyone of them sadly.

Exactly.

There should be a permanent link on here and others supporters websites so we can complete them every time we here something. Hibs could keep a copy and present these at SFA meetings etc asking for a response to x number of complaints of a sectarian nature. If all the clubs did this then there wouldn't be a leg to stand on. Of course this would be too simple.

[JimBHibees]

I wish I had recordings of some of the hatred I heard spouted during taxi journeys from both sides of the sectarian divide. They might look and sound respectable most of the time but they're not. People go on about football being the only place it's heard but it goes on all the time.

Agree the religious and political aspect brings on a sinister element which perpetuates the hatred. Still the best derby in the world though. :rolleyes:

[beensaidbefore]

As do I. I bet the majority wouldn't chant along if the bigoted lyrics were aimed at people's skin colour.

It doesn't personally offend me, but nothing much does... still doesn't make it right. It's both disgusting and embarrassing what goes on.

Im not so sure, but would that be worse?

[bigwheel]

Prestonpans????


reminds me of a story I got told by an ex colleague who lived down there...the local bar in its wisdom decided to run a "joint" bus to an old-firm game. The pub was open before the bus left and people got welled in to the booze...by around lunchtime when the bus was due to leave, people in different states of sobriety got on the bus...before it had even left, the banter turned to aggression and fights started on the bus. Windows ended up being smashed and the bus cancelled without it leaving it's pick up zone. My mate chuckled as he told it it's the only bus he has known that had it's windows put "out" rather than "in"....

:greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

It seems the singing of songs at football matches are the highest profile examples of sectarian behaviour in Scotland. It's all a bit school playground, and arguments about who is more sectarian than another just adds to the pantomime of it all.
I know folk who follow Rangers and Celtic and enjoy chanting along to the tiresome song sheet, but none really appear to hold strong views on what they are singing about. It's all part of supporting the old firm, and I really don't get too offended by it all.
You can encounter people in business life who are the rangers people and use masonic handshakes and these factors can influence their judgements along sectarian lines.

I like to think it's dying off but they are most certainly out there and it's a bit more sinister and harder to ignore than some waster who sings what he sings because of "traditions".

[Deansy]

The way I look at it is that the Hun NEED sectarianism, since the 2nd version of them was brought into existence their need for sectarianism has increased tremendously. They've depended on it to sell season-tickets - remember Chuckie green and his hint of 'Orange jerseys' etc - without sectarianism, they're dead !

Septic - not quite as bad as their 'rivals' (Business-partners) but without the Hun, they'd eventually wither and die as well ............... or at least they'd sink to a level where actual competition would break out !

[Peevemor]

My ex father-in-law was a mega hun and had a few seats in the Waddell suite at Ibrox which he used to entertain his clients (and, to be fair, me - when Hibs were playing there).

He was a good guy - interesting, intelligent and funny and he was always very good to me, even after his daughter and I divorced, and this despite my very "Hibernian" background. He was also the first to make fun of his wife's family's orange band FTP antics.

However, whenever he was looking at CVs of people who applied to work for his firm (brick counters) he would automatically discard those of anyone who had an even slightly "suspect" (ie. Irish catholic sounding) name. This doesn't correspond at all with the man that I knew, but obviously some people simply can't help themselves.

[Deansy]

Been following this thread with some interest and its changed my opinion of the OF a little, instead of regarding them as two cheeks of the same erse I now regard them as two cheeks of a broadly similar erse but the the rangers cheek is a bit more deformed and pimply than the celtc one.

It's also the cheek that, no matter how many wipes (2 now) the sh*te still clings to it.

[Bostonhibby]

It's also the cheek that, no matter how many wipes (2 now) the sh*te still clings to it.
You're right, how did I overlook that?😊

[WeeRussell]

Im not so sure, but would that be worse?

To clarify, I meant the majority of "folk we know" that don't have any problem joining in with the nonsense. I'm quite sure there are a great deal of neanderthals that follow those teams that would sing along to anything and everything if they felt it fitted in with the "great traditions" of their club.