Smoke bombs

[Ryan69]

There was actually more smoke out the back of the West Stand at half time, where large and clear No Smoking signs were ignored making the walk to toilets and catering huts a thick & foggy one. Both are practises that are prohibited, but the police and stewards let both pass without any dramatics.

You should probably resign to the library then.

This has been happening at games for decades mate....Get over it!

Would you like everyone to stay seated and not speak also?

[Baldy Foghorn]

You should probably resign to the library then.

This has been happening at games for decades mate....Get over it!

Would you like everyone to stay seated and not speak also?

Clever

[Baldy Foghorn]

I know. She should really develop a sense of fun:wink:

:rolleyes:

[Big_Franck]

I actually like the smoke bombs, they look amazing especially with flares but they can be dangerous in a crowded stadium.

Flares I'd agree can be dangerous. Dont see the 'danger' with smoke bombs. They add something to our games and I don't mind them. Dempster tweeting about it won't make any difference IMO.

Its also against the rules to enter a stadium under the influence of alcohol. If Dempster tweeted that she was sick of fans drinking before the derbies that would be ignored as well.

[wills]

How much is our club being fined for every smoke bomb discharged during the game. They need to be stopped and the morons responsible fined and banned

[Hibrandenburg]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/7375

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Flares I'd agree can be dangerous. Dont see the 'danger' with smoke bombs. They add something to our games and I don't mind them. Dempster tweeting about it won't make any difference IMO.

Its also against the rules to enter a stadium under the influence of alcohol. If Dempster tweeted that she was sick of fans drinking before the derbies that would be ignored as well.

The danger with smoke bombs is that you're breathing that **** into your lungs

[Andy74]

The danger with smoke bombs is that you're breathing that **** into your lungs

It's not toxic though. It's just smoke.

What harm do you think it's doing anyone's lungs?

[Scouse Hibee]

It's not toxic though. It's just smoke.

What harm do you think it's doing anyone's lungs?

Inhaling any type of smoke toxic or not can cause problems for people with breathing difficulties. Enola Gaye smoke bombs a common make state this as do many others.

[Andy74]

Inhaling any type of smoke toxic or not can cause problems for people with breathing difficulties. Enola Gaye smoke bombs a common make state this as do many others.

Agreed. Quite a specific issue though. They are often talked about as a general threat to health though either through the breathing aspect or the heat or the weight of being struck. None of these things are generally the case.

That said as I've made clear at the moment they are not welcome so shouldn't be used and certainly not chucked.

[barcahibs]

It's not toxic though. It's just smoke.

What harm do you think it's doing anyone's lungs?

This is he bit that bothers me, everyone proclaiming oh it's just smoke, what harm can it do?

As I've said before I've got no real interest in smoke bombs beyond thinking they're a bit childish, it's the dismissive attitude of the people that enjoy them that annoys me.

if YOU like smoke bombs, that's great, that's YOUR choice. Go stand in a field or lock yourself in a cupboard and knock yourself out. But by bringing it to a football match and releasing it into a crowd you're not giving anyone else a choice. They have to put up with the consequences of your action. That's not right.

It's not easy to find what exactly smoke bombs are made of but five minutes internet research on the materials safety data sheets of likely chemicals gets me this

Potassium Nitrate
Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation (lung irritant). Prolonged
exposure may result in skin burns and ulcerations. Over-exposure by inhalation may cause respiratory irritation.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to blood, kidneys, central nervous system (CNS).
Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.
Chronic Effects on Humans:
May cause damage to the following organs: blood, kidneys, central nervous system (CNS).
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation (lung irritant).
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:
May cause adverse reproductive effects based on animal test data. May affect genetic material (mutagenic)
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: Causes skin irritation. Eyes: Causes eye irritation Inhalation: Breathing Potassium
Nitrate can irritate the nose and throat causing sneezing and coughing. High levels can interfere with the ability of the blood
to carry oxygen causing headache, dizziness and a blue color to the skin and lips (methemoglobinemia), and other symtoms
of methemoglobinemia (see other symptoms under ingestion). Higher levels can cause trouble breathing, circulatory collapse
and even death. Ingestion: Ingestion of large quantities may cause violent gastroenteritis with nausea, vomiting, severe
abdominal pain. It may also cause colic and diarrhea. Acute toxicity of nitrate occurs as a result of reduction to nitrite. The
nitrite acts in the blood to oxidize hemoglobin to methemoglobin which does not perform as an oxygen carrier to tissues
causing Methenoglobinemia. Symptoms may include vertigo, muscular weakness, syncope, irregular pulse, convulsions,
anoxia, coma, fall in blood pressure, roaring sound in the ears, a persistant throbbing headache, generalized tingling
sensation, heart palpitations, visual disturbances caused by increased intraocular tension and intracranial pressure, flushed
and perspiring skin, which is later cold and cyanotic. Circulatory collapse and death may occur. Chronic Potential Health
Effects: Ingestion and Inhalation: Repeated or prolonged exposure to small amounts may affect the blood, respiration and
kidneys and produce anemia, Methenoglobinemia with attendant cyanosis and anoxia, hyperpnea and later dyspnea, and
nephritis.

Potassium Chlorate
Potential Acute Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (corrosive, irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Hazardous
in case of skin contact (permeator). The amount of tissue damage depends on length of contact. Eye contact can result in
corneal damage or blindness. Skin contact can produce inflammation and blistering. Inhalation of dust will produce irritation
to gastro-intestinal or respiratory tract, characterized by burning, sneezing and coughing. Severe over-exposure can produce
lung damage, choking, unconsciousness or death. Prolonged exposure may result in skin burns and ulcerations. Over-
exposure by inhalation may cause respiratory irritation. Inflammation of the eye is characterized by redness, watering, and
itching. Skin inflammation is characterized by itching, scaling, reddening, or, occasionally, blistering.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (corrosive, irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Hazardous
in case of skin contact (permeator). CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance is toxic to blood,
kidneys, lungs, the nervous system, liver, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can
produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure of the eyes to a low level of dust can produce eye irritation.
skin exposure can produce local skin destruction, or dermatitis. Repeated inhalation of dust can produce varying degree of
respiratory irritation or lung damage. Repeated or prolonged inhalation of dust may lead to chronic respiratory irritation.
Chronic Effects on Humans:
The substance is toxic to blood, kidneys, lungs, the nervous system, liver, mucous membranes.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (corrosive, irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Hazardous in case of skin contact
(permeator).

That's for the nice friendly smoke grenades. Hopefully folk don't manage to get their hands on the one's made from Zinc Chloride, which is where it gets really nasty.

The FAQ page for a leading smoke bomb supplier also gave me this

Can you hand hold our products?
Wear eye and hand protection. Once the product is ignited it will emit smoke. Sparks and hot ash may also be emitted. During use the product will become warm, once smoke production has stopped the casing will continue to warm to the point it is uncomfortable to hold.

Can you breathe the smoke?
You cannot breathe the smoke. It may cause breathing difficulties, especially if you are asthmatic. The smoke is not known (emphasis mine) to be toxic but where possible avoid breathing it.

Do our products stain clothing?
Yes. Clothing and Materials within two meters of the product may become stained. A fine dust may also be emitted which will not usually stain property but may do so.

Nice stuff. And of course this is assuming our pyro throwers have forked out for a reputable brand and haven't just bought the cheapest they could find on eBay, manufactured in China out of who knows what.

Like I say if you want to play with it, fine. But you don't have the right to make anyone else have to deal with the potential consequences.

[Skol]

It's not toxic though. It's just smoke.

What harm do you think it's doing anyone's lungs?
Smoke kills

[Hibrandenburg]

It's not toxic though. It's just smoke.

What harm do you think it's doing anyone's lungs?

Even the manufacturer's instructions state that the smoke should not be inhaled. Heaven knows what's in those sold from under the counter. We're going round in circles here but it's been mentioned that some people have had breathing difficulties brought on by these things and the club have came out and stated it's costing them time, money and possible disciplinary sanctions. What's so difficult to understand?

[Thecat23]

It's not toxic though. It's just smoke.

What harm do you think it's doing anyone's lungs?

Really? I think it's clear smoke can cause serious damage to many people with or without health issues. Your lungs aren't designed to inhale this crap and it's clearly on the containers not to inhale it.

I couldn't care how "amazing" it looks, they are banned for a reason and I hope the club absolutely hammer those who continue to do it!

[Eyrie]

Agreed. Quite a specific issue though. They are often talked about as a general threat to health though either through the breathing aspect or the heat or the weight of being struck. None of these things are generally the case.

That said as I've made clear at the moment they are not welcome so shouldn't be used and certainly not chucked.

I'm glad to hear you don't want them being used by the Hibs support.

Would you be happy for you or your kids to inhale the smoke?

[Andy74]

I'm glad to hear you don't want them being used by the Hibs support.

Would you be happy for you or your kids to inhale the smoke?

Yes, we inhale worse on a daily basis. I've no problem with any of us being close to these otherwise I wouldn't be arguing that they are actually pretty harmless.

[greenlex]

Yes, we inhale worse on a daily basis. I've no problem with any of us being close to these otherwise I wouldn't be arguing that they are actually pretty harmless.

So you'd be happy for your kids to inhale the smoke? Bizarre parenting skills there Andy.

[marinello59]

Yes, we inhale worse on a daily basis. I've no problem with any of us being close to these otherwise I wouldn't be arguing that they are actually pretty harmless.

Maybe you could do a John Gummer style photo shoot with your family and a smoke bomb to show everyone how safe they are. :greengrin

[Hiber-nation]

Yes, we inhale worse on a daily basis. I've no problem with any of us being close to these otherwise I wouldn't be arguing that they are actually pretty harmless.

I sometimes wonder if you just argue for the sake of it!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

It's not toxic though. It's just smoke.

What harm do you think it's doing anyone's lungs?

Harm to the club is what matters though.

[Thecat23]

Maybe you could do a John Gummer style photo shoot with your family and a smoke bomb to show everyone how safe they are. :greengrin

😂

[oldbutdim]

I sometimes wonder if you just argue for the sake of it!

I'm pretty certain that's the case.

:greengrin

[JimboHibs]

Hopefully the club will raise any concerns with the relevant authorities should the SFA use any pyros at any of our future trips to Hampden.

[My_Wife_Camille]

That's a matter of opinion.

My opinion was that it was stupid and partially obscured the view. Fortunately the ball wasn't in the area.

As I've said before, anyone who likes smoke bombs should lock themselves in a cupboard and then set it off. Think of all the fun they'll have without annoying other people.
Cupboards are generally not well ventilated spaces and the 'smoke' will not dissipate as quickly as it would outdoors so I find this to be a poor comparison.

Unless of course you normally lock yourself in a cupboard when you have fun?

[My_Wife_Camille]

I like smoke bombs at the football, I think they look great.

[Hibrandenburg]

Hopefully the club will raise any concerns with the relevant authorities should the SFA use any pyros at any of our future trips to Hampden.

Hopefully it'll be done at the expense of the SFA and carried out using certified pyrotechnics and technicians in a controlled area and not just bought of some bloke on the Internet and lobbed with the hope it reaches the pitch.

[Moulin Yarns]

Hopefully the club will raise any concerns with the relevant authorities should the SFA use any pyros at any of our future trips to Hampden.

Professional display or a diddy in the crowd are very different animals

[Andy74]

I sometimes wonder if you just argue for the sake of it!

That goes without saying 😉

[lapsedhibee]

Maybe you could do a John Gummer style photo shoot with your family and a smoke bomb to show everyone how safe they are. :greengrin

:agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

Good for you

As a matter of interest, how many points have Celtic been deducted for their fans smoke bombing over the last 3 years???

IMO, it's not about the punishment issue.

If a fan is injured, or otherwise affected, by one of these things, the Club is open to being sued. That's the reason they're trying to
stop them.

[Andy74]

So you'd be happy for your kids to inhale the smoke? Bizarre parenting skills there Andy.

We do all sorts of crazy stuff. Cross roads, travel in cars, visit London. No end to the danger I put them in.

[JimboHibs]

Professional display or a diddy in the crowd are very different animals

Curious is there evidence that anyone has been harmed at a game in Scotland outwith a professional display ?

[greenlex]

Curious is there evidence that anyone has been harmed at a game in Scotland outwith a professional display ?Not sure at all but Im sure we shouldnt be waiting till someone has before we act. There is no need for them at football at all.

[Andy74]

Not sure at all but Im sure we shouldnt be waiting till someone has before we act. There is no need for them at football at all.

Though of course the fact these stand very little chance of being able to harm anyone has been a major factor in there being pretty much no incidents of note.

[JimboHibs]

Not sure at all but Im sure we shouldnt be waiting till someone has before we act. There is no need for them at football at all.

Thanks.

[greenlex]

Though of course the fact these stand very little chance of being able to harm anyone has been a major factor in there being pretty much no incidents of note. Your begining to bore me now. Hibs dont want them. The authorities dont want them. Its probably because they are completely harmless. :rolleyes:

[Thecat23]

We do all sorts of crazy stuff. Cross roads, travel in cars, visit London. No end to the danger I put them in.

Which are controlled environments, well as best can be! Accidents will always happen of course. But surely you wouldn't put your kids in that situation where due to smoke bombs they can't breath!

[greenlex]

Which are controlled environments, well as best can be! Accidents will always happen of course. But surely you wouldn't put your kids in that situation where due to smoke bombs they can't breath!He's at it Cat. If someone was to lob one in his lounge he'd be out there pronto.

[My_Wife_Camille]

He's at it Cat. If someone was to lob one in his lounge he'd be out there pronto.
Am I seriously the only person here that can see the difference between letting one of these off in an open, outdoors environment and letting one of them off in a small, confined indoor space?

[greenlex]

Am I seriously the only person here that can see the difference between letting one of these off in an open, outdoors environment and letting one of them off in a small, confined indoor space?
Of course theres a difference. Andy is claiming he is happy for his kids to inhale the smoke. I'm making a point that hes at it.

[Eyrie]

Am I seriously the only person here that can see the difference between letting one of these off in an open, outdoors environment and letting one of them off in a small, confined indoor space?

But if you enjoy it so much and it's perfectly safe, surely you don't want the smoke getting away from you?

And on a more serious note, why don't those that enjoy smoke bombs set them off in a quiet corner of the local park instead of breaking the law and disrupting others by doing so at a football game?

[Thecat23]

He's at it Cat. If someone was to lob one in his lounge he'd be out there pronto.

At first I thought he was but I'm not so sure.

[Andy74]

Of course theres a difference. Andy is claiming he is happy for his kids to inhale the smoke. I'm making a point that hes at it.

Not at all. In the quantaties experienced at a game I've no issues at all.

Would I stick my kids in a cupboard and let a couple off? Depends what day you ask I suppose.

[bingo70]

That goes without saying 😉

You missed a really easy opportunity for an argument there and tbh I'm pretty disappointed.

[Andy74]

Your begining to bore me now. Hibs dont want them. The authorities dont want them. Its probably because they are completely harmless. :rolleyes:

The main issue is differentiating between flares and bigger smoke canisters.

Hibs also don't want alcohol to be sold in the ground currently. That doesn't mean it's actually the correct answer. It doesn't mean we couldn't or shouldn't discuss whether that's something to change.

Earlier someone linked to a US team with safe areas for these so there are other views. If they were too dangerous the US would be the last place to tolerate them.

[Moulin Yarns]

The main issue is differentiating between flares and bigger smoke canisters.

Hibs also don't want alcohol to be sold in the ground currently. That doesn't mean it's actually the correct answer. It doesn't mean we couldn't or shouldn't discuss whether that's something to change.

Earlier someone linked to a US team with safe areas for these so there are other views. If they were too dangerous the US would be the last place to tolerate them.


I am sure that the team in the US do not allow any idiot to throw smoke bombs into the crowd as happened at Easter road recently.

It looked as if a couple of guys set them off in large steel drums in a controlled manner.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Strong pitch for slaver of the year and it's only March... ;)

[PatHead]

The main issue is differentiating between flares and bigger smoke canisters.

Hibs also don't want alcohol to be sold in the ground currently. That doesn't mean it's actually the correct answer. It doesn't mean we couldn't or shouldn't discuss whether that's something to change.

Earlier someone linked to a US team with safe areas for these so there are other views. If they were too dangerous the US would be the last place to tolerate them.

Why do they sell it in Behind the Goals and hospitality then? To spite themselves?

[CraigHibee]

risk a ban by throwing these or get to watch my beloved hibs regularly.... i know what option i would be choosing.....

[hibee-boys]

Whether you like them or not the bottom line is that the club have asked for them not be used, it'll more than likely lead to a fine if it continues. I actually don't mind them and don't buy into the fact that they are some sort of lethal weapon but for the reason noted above I'd be having words with anyone I see throwing them.

[hibsbollah]

Why do they sell it in Behind the Goals and hospitality then? To spite themselves?

I vote for free drink and lashings of extra smoke bombs.

[Scouse Hibee]

I vote for free drink and lashings of extra smoke bombs.

Never had a smoke bomb, is it similar to a Jaeger bomb?

[Andy74]

I am sure that the team in the US do not allow any idiot to throw smoke bombs into the crowd as happened at Easter road recently.

It looked as if a couple of guys set them off in large steel drums in a controlled manner.

I haven't said anything about it being a good idea to throw them.

Some interesting videos of Celtic fans walking to the game today. Looks like scenes from Apocolypse Now but strangely no one in the huge crowd completely immersed in the smoke seems any the worse for wear.

[Moulin Yarns]

I haven't said anything about it being a good idea to throw them.

Some interesting videos of Celtic fans walking to the game today. Looks like scenes from Apocolypse Now but strangely no one in the huge crowd completely immersed in the smoke seems any the worse for wear.

AYE RIGHT.

So now you want to add to the myth that we are just like our Celtc 'cousins' Great!!


Which part of "THEY ARE AGAINST THE LAW" don't you understand?

[Scouse Hibee]

AYE RIGHT.

So now you want to add to the myth that we are just like our Celtc 'cousins' Great!!


Which part of "THEY ARE AGAINST THE LAW" don't you understand?

Andy is playing with you mate, he keeps casting his line and you keep biting. Time to get off his hook, unless of course you are enjoying it.

[hibsbollah]

AYE RIGHT.

So now you want to add to the myth that we are just like our Celtc 'cousins' Great!!


Which part of "THEY ARE AGAINST THE LAW" don't you understand?


The thing is, Leeanne just can't come in and say 'you can't let off smoke bombs'. We've bought our tickets and are entitled to a basic level of freedom of expression. That's what the Human Rights Act is for :grr:

[eastcoasthibby]

As i understand it, legally the idea of people signing "waivers" to say they're happy to sit in an area where smoke bombs are permitted is a non-starter. You cannot sign away your rights under law.

If you sit in an area where pyrotechnics are informally allowed and you are injured by one (maybe from heat/physical contact, maybe from smoke inhalation) then Hibs would get hammered, no matter how much they/you could claim you'd agreed to accept the risk.

They would also open themselves up to future liability - who actually knows what's in these smoke bombs? What if it contains an ingredient which turns out to be the 21st century equivalent to asbestos?

20 years down the line and everyone who sat in the stadium is suing for lung cancer?

Might seem unlikely but its happened before.

I am asthmatic so for that reason alone wouldnt want to be breathing the reek these things let out but god knows what else is in there.
If we are struggling to find the right area for a very positive singing section then where the heckler would we get one for those wanting to set off smoke bombs flares !!
Bottom line it's massively clear the huge majority of fans don't want them and they are already banned , so why are we trying to accommodate a tiny minority with this agenda ...let's get a grip !! A safe standing area is a better much more worthy cause to debate and push for as I think it would enhance the atmosphere positively ....

[Salt N Sauzee]

No Pyro No Party

[Thecat23]

Andy is playing with you mate, he keeps casting his line and you keep biting. Time to get off his hook, unless of course you are enjoying it.

Thought trolling wasn't allowed?? 🙄

[Hibbyradge]

Smoke bombs are naff anyway.

[HappyHibeeAG]

I'll admit that green smoke looks cool when you see fans marching to a game (Under the tram bridge etc on route to Tynie) but inside a stadium during a match is irresponsible. To many variables for something to go horribly wrong. The elderly chap who had to vacate to the concourse at Tannadice on Friday evening because he caught a mouthful of smoke wasn't experiencing "Atmosphere" just fear and panic. Just an example of what can go wrong, he was fine after a couple puffs of his inhaler but could potentially have been a lot worse.

The idea of a safe area is interesting but i dont think viable at Easter Road as the corners are exposed and direction of smoke unpredictable.

Despite that the main point is they are illegal, the law doesn't want them, the sports governing body doesn't want them, the club doesn't want them and based on comments across the fan Base, the majority of fans don't want them either.

Guess the last point is the club could face financial sanctions for the use of flares and smoke.... why take money out the transfer pot???

[silverhibee]

I'll admit that green smoke looks cool when you see fans marching to a game (Under the tram bridge etc on route to Tynie) but inside a stadium during a match is irresponsible. To many variables for something to go horribly wrong. The elderly chap who had to vacate to the concourse at Tannadice on Friday evening because he caught a mouthful of smoke wasn't experiencing "Atmosphere" just fear and panic. Just an example of what can go wrong, he was fine after a couple puffs of his inhaler but could potentially have been a lot worse.

The idea of a safe area is interesting but i dont think viable at Easter Road as the corners are exposed and direction of smoke unpredictable.

Despite that the main point is they are illegal, the law doesn't want them, the sports governing body doesn't want them, the club doesn't want them and based on comments across the fan Base, the majority of fans don't want them either.

Guess the last point is the club could face financial sanctions for the use of flares and smoke.... why take money out the transfer pot???


From who, as far as I know no club in Scotland has been fined for setting of smoke bombs inside a ground, Celtc & The Rangers do it every week and no punishment has been handed out to these clubs or any other club for setting of smoke bombs, FFS, even when players and managers are assaulted on the pitch by fans the SFA have never punished the clubs for it.

[hibsbollah]

Thought trolling wasn't allowed?? 🙄

I had assumed this whole thread was a huge troll fest. As long as it's banter and not attacking anyone I don't see the problem personally. Andy has previous for defending the indefensible (Alan O'Brien is a player etc), it's allgood clean fun if you ask me :greengrin

[Thecat23]

I had assumed this whole thread was a huge troll fest. As long as it's banter and not attacking anyone I don't see the problem personally. Andy has previous for defending the indefensible (Alan O'Brien is a player etc), it's allgood clean fun if you ask me :greengrin

Ah right... In that case I wonder if we can have a section for the CCS?? 😉

[CropleyWasGod]

From who, as far as I know no club in Scotland has been fined for setting of smoke bombs inside a ground, Celtc & The Rangers do it every week and no punishment has been handed out to these clubs or any other club for setting of smoke bombs, FFS, even when players and managers are assaulted on the pitch by fans the SFA have never punished the clubs for it.

I said earlier, although maybe on another thread, it's not about being fined.

If someone is injured, or has a health condition made worse by inhaling the smoke for example, they will have a right to sue Hibs. It's up to Hibs to provide a safe environment for their customers and, if they don't, they deserve to be blasted. The fact that the club is making the right noises just now might help reduce any liability, but they're still there to be shot at.

[PatHead]

I said earlier, although maybe on another thread, it's not about being fined.

If someone is injured, or has a health condition made worse by inhaling the smoke for example, they will have a right to sue Hibs. It's up to Hibs to provide a safe environment for their customers and, if they don't, they deserve to be blasted. The fact that the club is making the right noises just now might help reduce any liability, but they're still there to be shot at.

Not forgetting that the person who throws it could end up with a criminal record and banned from watching their beloved Hibs. All for being Billy big baws.

[ekhibee]

:agree: I remember hearing Martin Lewis saying: if I walk up to you in the street and tell you I'm going to punch you in the face and then do it, having told you beforehand doesn't make it legal.

I vaguely remember a court case (can't remember if it was here or England) where consenting adults who had been engaging in violent sex to somebody's injury were successfully prosecuted for assault. And IIRC, the explanation at the time was that you can't consent to illegal activity.

....which is an observation in reply to the post above the one I quoted. Obviously, on the subject of smoke-bombs, willing adults and consent forms there isn't a comparison with violent assault. I do wonder though if it would be a bit of a legal hassle for Hibs: there is risk involved - for example, to people with respiratory illness, and it may be that they wouldn't be able to remove their legal responsibility for the safety of people at risk in the stadium, in the way that shops can't remove their responsibility for their customers' rights by pinning a notice on the wall saying that they're doing it . In the event of someone taking ill, presumably they would have to demonstrate that they didn't knowingly put them at risk:dunno:
I actually thought the court case you were referring to was when one weirdo gave another weirdo permission to remove the first weirdo's body parts and then have sex with him. Neither of them had any physical ailments or disabilities by the way. That was a few years ago now, and you're right, it was in England. The Martin Lewis thing is an interesting one. If he tells you "in half an hour I'm going to punch you in the face", that could be construed as giving you advance warning so as to allow you to take the necessary precautions. It allows you to a/get something to protect your face, b/ phone your mates to come along and test the theory on Martin Lewis, or c/ bugger off home. Either way I'd be surprised if there's a precedent for it under Scottish law, but you never know.

[silverhibee]

AYE RIGHT.

So now you want to add to the myth that we are just like our Celtc 'cousins' Great!!


Which part of "THEY ARE AGAINST THE LAW" don't you understand?


And yet as you see in the clip Scottish Police are doing nothing about it, was quite clear to see guys walking down the street holding green flares and Police officers standing by and let it happen, now this would have to be something the police should act on straight away as there video cameras would be of no use with all the smoke, what's the point of Scottish Police making statements regards flares/smoke bombs where they say they will come down heavy on any fans with these items on them and then stand by and let it happen.

[18Hibee75]

I think smoke bombs add to atmosphere. Of course if someone is going to throw one and it doesn't reach the pitch then that is very stupid and dangerous, but the one at Dundee utd was far onto the pitch and after we had just scored. Thought that one added a good atmosphere, however I see no point for two for Ayr at home....

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

And yet as you see in the clip Scottish Police are doing nothing about it, was quite clear to see guys walking down the street holding green flares and Police officers standing by and let it happen, now this would have to be something the police should act on straight away as there video cameras would be of no use with all the smoke, what's the point of Scottish Police making statements regards flares/smoke bombs where they say they will come down heavy on any fans with these items on them and then stand by and let it happen.

They're not illegal outside the ground, though.

[marinello59]

They're not illegal outside the ground, though.

I think it is illegal for an individual to set them off in a public place. I may be wrong though. :greengrin

[silverhibee]

I said earlier, although maybe on another thread, it's not about being fined.

If someone is injured, or has a health condition made worse by inhaling the smoke for example, they will have a right to sue Hibs. It's up to Hibs to provide a safe environment for their customers and, if they don't, they deserve to be blasted. The fact that the club is making the right noises just now might help reduce any liability, but they're still there to be shot at.


But plenty folk seem to think it is, I'm only pointing out that the club will not be fined by the SFA/SPFL for smoke bombs being set off.


As for the 2nd bit about suing Hibs for inhaling smoke or injured then I think Hibs would win the case, the club do everything they can to stop these things being brought in to the ground, they can't strip search everyone entering the ground but they do implement security officers to search people who are carrying bags and randomly pat down the odd fan when entering the ground and CCTV is in operation inside and outside the ground, I doubt anyone suing the club would win there case, so far it would seem if these people are caught they will be banned by the club and charged by the police, the club won't be punished for it.

But if the club want it stopped then i hope the folk doing it take notice.

I have no problems with them personally, and i have breathing problems and they have never affected me when they have been set off, Motherwell away game and i just happened to be standing behind a group who were setting them off and they didn't affect me then, throwing them is just being stupid.

[CropleyWasGod]

But plenty folk seem to think it is, I'm only pointing out that the club will not be fined by the SFA/SPFL for smoke bombs being set off.


As for the 2nd bit about suing Hibs for inhaling smoke or injured then I think Hibs would win the case, the club do everything they can to stop these things being brought in to the ground, they can't strip search everyone entering the ground but they do implement security officers to search people who are carrying bags and randomly pat down the odd fan when entering the ground and CCTV is in operation inside and outside the ground, I doubt anyone suing the club would win there case, so far it would seem if these people are caught they will be banned by the club and charged by the police, the club won't be punished for it.

But if the club want it stopped then i hope the folk doing it take notice.

I have no problems with them personally, and i have breathing problems and they have never affected me when they have been set off, Motherwell away game and i just happened to be standing behind a group who were setting them off and they didn't affect me then, throwing them is just being stupid.

You're correct about the fines. Until we have strict liability, that won't happen.

But the civil aspect? I'm not so sure. The club are, for sure, doing about as much as they can.... but civil law can be a strange beast, and I wouldn't like to bet on the outcome. Point is, though, any such case would be expensive to defend.

Hijacking the thread a bit... did you hear what sounded like gunshots last night? :greengrin

[silverhibee]

They're not illegal outside the ground, though.

Not to sure about that one, they are walking towards a football ground where anyone caught with one inside or outside would be charged under the football act.

[silverhibee]

You're correct about the fines. Until we have strict liability, that won't happen.

But the civil aspect? I'm not so sure. The club are, for sure, doing about as much as they can.... but civil law can be a strange beast, and I wouldn't like to bet on the outcome. Point is, though, any such case would be expensive to defend.

Hijacking the thread a bit... did you hear what sounded like gunshots last night? :greengrin


True, as we found out with 2 football players not that long a go.

But don't be encouraging folk to go down that route. :greengrin

Hijack bit, if it was late last night about 11.30 then it may have been a black Honda civic back firing, was going up and down Sknowes Road at a good speed last night, makes a change from noisy motorbikes. :aok:

[Mikey09]

I said earlier, although maybe on another thread, it's not about being fined.

If someone is injured, or has a health condition made worse by inhaling the smoke for example, they will have a right to sue Hibs. It's up to Hibs to provide a safe environment for their customers and, if they don't, they deserve to be blasted. The fact that the club is making the right noises just now might help reduce any liability, but they're still there to be shot at.


What part of this are people not getting? Hibs are telling EVERYONE not to bring and use these things yet some still want to argue?!

[silverhibee]

What part of this are people not getting? Hibs are telling EVERYONE not to bring and use these things yet some still want to argue?!

Apart from Andy :greengrin who else is arguing about it.

[hibsbollah]

Ah right... In that case I wonder if we can have a section for the CCS?? ��

That section is right behind me in the East. Stone Island, Baldy, unsteady on their pins, all that mid 80s muscle built up from castle terrace car park 'training' gone to flab. probable high blood pressure issues. Fond of screaming abuse at own players. Not that I'm generalising:wink:

[Mikey09]

Apart from Andy :greengrin who else is arguing about it.


Didnt want to single him out... :agree:

[Malthibby]

Ah right... In that case I wonder if we can have a section for the CCS?? 😉

More likely that we should get a Section for Andy..................

[sleeping giant]

More likely that we should get a Section for Andy..................

:faf:

[Moulin Yarns]

More likely that we should get a Section for Andy..................

He's all on his own, he's all on his own, Andy74, he's all on his own :wink:

[ColinNish]

More likely that we should get a Section for Andy..................

Or get Andy sectioned...... :wink:

[JimboHibs]

Wow pyros at ER hope on one was injured or suffered from smoke inhalation ...

[Skol]

Wow pyros at ER hope on one was injured or suffered from smoke inhalation ...

Were these ones properly sanctioned and set up by experts or some bought from dodgy sources and lobbed randomly ?

[silverhibee]

Wow pyros at ER hope on one was injured or suffered from smoke inhalation ...

It will be the non toxic smoke that's used in these fireworks :rolleyes:

SFA Ultras

[JimboHibs]

Were these ones properly sanctioned and set up by experts or some bought from dodgy sources and lobbed randomly ?

No idea might have been the dodgy ones that have caused death n destruction at games in Scotland.

[silverhibee]

Were these ones properly sanctioned and set up by experts or some bought from dodgy sources and lobbed randomly ?

Is the smoke from the proper ones set of by experts safe.

And it's the SFA we are talking about here, probably bought them from dodgy Dave at the Barrowlands before they left to come through here.

[Skol]

Is the smoke from the proper ones set of by experts safe.

And it's the SFA we are talking about here, probably bought them from dodgy Dave at the Barrowlands before they left to come through here.

Probably not, but then again it wasnt lobbed into a crowd of punters by a brain dead scroat