Second Gear in Edinburgh?

[northstandhibby]

How are drivers finding the 20 mph limit in the zones that are being rolled out. Is it second gear or third or is business as usual?

glory glory

[Geo_1875]

How are drivers finding the 20 mph limit in the zones that are being rolled out. Is it second gear or third or is business as usual?

glory glory

Mines an automatic.

[Hibee87]

Business as usuall as not one driver I have seen has paid any attention to the change. Waste of taxpayers money getting new signs/streets painted as I fully expect it to be overturned!

[Speedy]

Depends if it's uphill or downhill :greengrin

[snooky]

Business as usuall as not one driver I have seen has paid any attention to the change. Waste of taxpayers money getting new signs/streets painted as I fully expect it to be overturned!

Some 'Green' upstart wants all resident streets changed to 20mph. Well bloody good for him.
Anything else you'd like me to do to suit your passing notions, Mr Ruskell?
Maybe, put my lights and telly off at 10 o'clock?
Obey a curfew so I don't bother you on your way home?
Sweep the streets in your neighbourhood?

A police & nanny state seems the way we're heading.
One day they'll be asking "What was being free like, grandad?"

FWIW, I wholeheartedly agree there is a time and place for a 20mph limit (e.g. around schools when they go in & out) but this proposal is totally nonsensical.

[Scouse Hibee]

I stick rigidly to 20mph where it applies. I love the frustration of those behind me.

[Hibbyradge]

I think you guys are just going to have to suck it up and get used to it because I can't see it being overturned. There's a huge push to reduce speed limits across the UK and 20 places have already put them in place, and another 20 councils have policy to do so including York where I live. http://www.20splenty.org/20mph_places

Britain's streets are currently much, much faster than Europe's and it's fatality rate is the highest, most of which occur on 30 mph roads. Some German communities have streets where the speed limit is 9mph (15kph).

I generally don't speed around town, whatever the speed limit. Years ago, I hit a wee lassie who ran out from the front of a bus at the bus top at the bottom of Dalry Road (outside the Veranda restaurant) I was passing on the way up. I wasn't going fast but she still broke her hip and I was devastated. Had I been a boy racer, or even just going at 30, I could well have killed her.

I haven't had points on my license since 1978, but I was caught speeding in Grimsby a few months back, doing 48 in a 40. I didn't know the road at all and it was a 4 lane stretch which I thought was a 50 limit. I was furious at myself for being so careless. Instead of 3 points and a fine, I accepted their offer to go on a speed awareness course which, it transpired, was very interesting and I learned a lot more than I thought I would.

They described an experiment which used a top of the range police car on a runway. They got the car going at 30 mph and when they hit a certain mark, they performed an emergency stop and marked where the car finally came to rest. They then got the car up to 35mph and hit the brakes at the same spot. When it passed the 30mph halt mark, the car was still doing 17mph.

Vehicle Speed Odds of Pedestrian Death
20 mph .......................... 5%
30 mph .......................... 45%
40 mph .......................... 85%

I thought this was interesting too.

http://www.brake.org.uk/assets/images/facts/Roof_fall_distances.jpg

From here http://www.brake.org.uk/t-cs/15-facts-a-resources/facts/1255-speed

[TRC]

In Sweden we have 40kmh in town which is about 25mph

[brianmc]

I think you guys are just going to have to suck it up and get used to it because I can't see it being overturned. There's a huge push to reduce speed limits across the UK and 20 places have already put them in place, and another 20 councils have policy to do so including York where I live. http://www.20splenty.org/20mph_places

Britain's streets are currently much, much faster than Europe's and it's fatality rate is the highest, most of which occur on 30 mph roads. Some German communities have streets where the speed limit is 9mph (15kph).

I generally don't speed around town, whatever the speed limit. Years ago, I hit a wee lassie who ran out from the front of a bus at the bus top at the bottom of Dalry Road (outside the Veranda restaurant) I was passing on the way up. I wasn't going fast but she still broke her hip and I was devastated. Had I been a boy racer, or even just going at 30, I could well have killed her.

I haven't had points on my license since 1978, but I was caught speeding in Grimsby a few months back, doing 48 in a 40. I didn't know the road at all and it was a 4 lane stretch which I thought was a 50 limit. I was furious at myself for being so careless. Instead of 3 points and a fine, I accepted their offer to go on a speed awareness course which, it transpired, was very interesting and I learned a lot more than I thought I would.

They described an experiment which used a top of the range police car on a runway. They got the car going at 30 mph and when they hit a certain mark, they performed an emergency stop and marked where the car finally came to rest. They then got the car up to 35mph and hit the brakes at the same spot. When it passed the 30mph halt mark, the car was still doing 17mph.

Vehicle Speed Odds of Pedestrian Death
20 mph .......................... 5%
30 mph .......................... 45%
40 mph .......................... 85%

I thought this was interesting too.

http://www.brake.org.uk/assets/images/facts/Roof_fall_distances.jpg

From here http://www.brake.org.uk/t-cs/15-facts-a-resources/facts/1255-speed

At the risk of being accused of trivialising a serious issue, could someone provide the data of how many pedestrians are killed whilst on the pavement? (I know it happens from time to time).
I'd suggest that most of the injuries/fatalities that are documented are down to pedestrians being on the road where/ when they shouldn't be rather than being because a driver was doing 30 instead of 20. Thoughts??

[Scouse Hibee]

At the risk of being accused of trivialising a serious issue, could someone provide the data of how many pedestrians are killed whilst on the pavement? (I know it happens from time to time).
I'd suggest that most of the injuries/fatalities that are documented are down to pedestrians being on the road where/ when they shouldn't be rather than being because a driver was doing 30 instead of 20. Thoughts??

The fact is though that accidents happen as pedestrians have to cross roads, the speed at which the impact happens has a great bearing on the outcome regarding fatality or not.

[Hibbyradge]

At the risk of being accused of trivialising a serious issue, could someone provide the data of how many pedestrians are killed whilst on the pavement? (I know it happens from time to time).
I'd suggest that most of the injuries/fatalities that are documented are down to pedestrians being on the road where/ when they shouldn't be rather than being because a driver was doing 30 instead of 20. Thoughts??

People make mistakes. Old people and children in particular.

Slower speeds give drivers more chance to avoid injuring or killing them for their mistake.

And believe me, for the price of a few seconds onto your journey time, that's a chance well worth taking.

[McD]

People make mistakes. Old people and children in particular.

Slower speeds give drivers more chance to avoid injuring or killing them for their mistake.

And believe me, for the price of a few seconds onto your journey time, that's a chance well worth taking.


To extend your point, not only do people make mistakes, how often does a driver bump their car up on a kerb, meaning a pedestrian can't get past on the pavement and is forced onto the road?

[Hibbyradge]

To extend your point, not only do people make mistakes, how often does a driver bump their car up on a kerb, meaning a pedestrian can't get past on the pavement and is forced onto the road?

That's an even bigger problem for blind people.

[Hiber-nation]

In Craigentinny Road the average speed has probably gone down from about 38 to 30 so it's had some effect. Haven't come across anyone doing 20 though....

[snooky]

That's an even bigger problem for blind people.

:agree: And people with prams and invalid buggies .

[Glory Lurker]

Once again the elite, with their scientific analyses and widely-sourced statistics, force a nanny state on the ordinary man and woman who just want to do whatever the flip suits them! :grr::fuming::grr::fuming:

[Hibbyradge]

Once again the elite, with their scientific analyses and widely-sourced statistics, force a nanny state on the ordinary man and woman who just want to do whatever the flip suits them! :grr::fuming::grr::fuming:

:tee hee:

[RyeSloan]

I've not seen any difference at all and think the vast majority have simply ignored it.

Waste of time and money if you ask me although I'm sure the Council will come up with something to justify the expense.

[grunt]

I find it pretty annoying having to stick to 20mph when driving through the park at 5:30am and there's no one around. I think the limits should be time specific, like bus lanes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Speedy]

I stick rigidly to 20mph where it applies. I love the frustration of those behind me.

That frustration is a big concern of mine. Both because it could lead to substandard decision/manoeuvre but also it is a distraction to other drivers.

[Bishop Hibee]

It isn't legally in force yet round my way yet. Starts on February 28th. The councillors went against the advice of their own road safety engineers and went for blanket coverage. A senior police source said "we won't be rigidly enforcing it, we've got better things to do." All from a former work colleague recently retired from the relevant department. All the money for the scheme comes from the Scottish Government so doesn't impact on the council budget.

I haven't seen the fatal, serious and slight injury total for Edinburgh in recent years. It would be interesting to see by how many of each category of accident are expected to decrease.

Personally, I think all residential roads should be 20mph but the 'main' routes should be relaxed to 30mph from 7.00p.m. to 7.00a.m.or thereabouts.

[snooky]

It isn't legally in force yet round my way yet. Starts on February 28th. The councillors went against the advice of their own road safety engineers and went for blanket coverage. A senior police source said "we won't be rigidly enforcing it, we've got better things to do." All from a former work colleague recently retired from the relevant department. All the money for the scheme comes from the Scottish Government so doesn't impact on the council budget.

I haven't seen the fatal, serious and slight injury total for Edinburgh in recent years. It would be interesting to see by how many of each category of accident are expected to decrease.

Personally, I think all residential roads should be 20mph but the 'main' routes should be relaxed to 30mph from 7.00p.m. to 7.00a.m.or thereabouts.

Okay, this is a wee bit 'out there' but, this is typical of restrictive legislative crap that p!sses people off and eventually leads to folk like Trump getting into office. :wink:

[Colr]

How are drivers finding the 20 mph limit in the zones that are being rolled out. Is it second gear or third or is business as usual?

glory glory

Got this in my borough but it jumps to 30 each time you go onto a TfL road from a council one and they hav eforgotten to remove some of the old speed signs.

I've just bought a hybrid auto so the gear choice issue has gone but I did switch between the two. Driving in second must have been more polluting (The car I'm getting rid off is a dreaded diesel).

[Colr]

People make mistakes. Old people and children in particular.

Slower speeds give drivers more chance to avoid injuring or killing them for their mistake.

And believe me, for the price of a few seconds onto your journey time, that's a chance well worth taking.

Agree with the last point. It really doesn't make a massive difference to journey times.

Reminds me if the nutter drivers who weave in and out of traffic cutting other drivers up and overtaking inside risking a crash but gaining only a matter of metres in progressing.

[hibsbollah]

I drive round Edinburgh almost everyday. But over the last few months Ive also been cycling round town (I got a decent road bike from Santa for the first time in my life in December). Ive come to the conclusion that all drivers should be forced to ride a bike round the city for a few weeks before getting behind the wheel again. You see things in a whole new light when you leave the whole 'us and them' narrative behind and start thinking about cyclists and car users as just human beings who are all capable of making mistakes.

[SHODAN]

In Sweden we have 40kmh in town which is about 25mph

Really? Since I've been here (Stockholm County) I usually see 30kmh in residential areas.

[Geo_1875]

Agree with the last point. It really doesn't make a massive difference to journey times.

Reminds me if the nutter drivers who weave in and out of traffic cutting other drivers up and overtaking inside risking a crash but gaining only a matter of metres in progressing.

Early morning Queen Street is hilarious with drivers overtaking, jumping lights and accelerating like madmen. The look on their face when you pull up beside them at the final set of lights as they sit waiting is priceless. The police could have a field day when that switches to 20 mph.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think you guys are just going to have to suck it up and get used to it because I can't see it being overturned. There's a huge push to reduce speed limits across the UK and 20 places have already put them in place, and another 20 councils have policy to do so including York where I live. http://www.20splenty.org/20mph_places

Britain's streets are currently much, much faster than Europe's and it's fatality rate is the highest, most of which occur on 30 mph roads. Some German communities have streets where the speed limit is 9mph (15kph).

I generally don't speed around town, whatever the speed limit. Years ago, I hit a wee lassie who ran out from the front of a bus at the bus top at the bottom of Dalry Road (outside the Veranda restaurant) I was passing on the way up. I wasn't going fast but she still broke her hip and I was devastated. Had I been a boy racer, or even just going at 30, I could well have killed her.

I haven't had points on my license since 1978, but I was caught speeding in Grimsby a few months back, doing 48 in a 40. I didn't know the road at all and it was a 4 lane stretch which I thought was a 50 limit. I was furious at myself for being so careless. Instead of 3 points and a fine, I accepted their offer to go on a speed awareness course which, it transpired, was very interesting and I learned a lot more than I thought I would.

They described an experiment which used a top of the range police car on a runway. They got the car going at 30 mph and when they hit a certain mark, they performed an emergency stop and marked where the car finally came to rest. They then got the car up to 35mph and hit the brakes at the same spot. When it passed the 30mph halt mark, the car was still doing 17mph.

Vehicle Speed Odds of Pedestrian Death
20 mph .......................... 5%
30 mph .......................... 45%
40 mph .......................... 85%

I thought this was interesting too.

http://www.brake.org.uk/assets/images/facts/Roof_fall_distances.jpg

From here http://www.brake.org.uk/t-cs/15-facts-a-resources/facts/1255-speed

Some German residential streets have been designated "Play Streets" where its only allowed to drive at walking speed (3.6km/h). This not only has the effect of making it much safer for kids but also cuts down non residents using the area for short cuts and it keeps the vast majority of traffic on the main road until they reach their destination.

Also many main roads in the city have a speed limit of 30 Km/h (18mph) between 22:00 and 06:00 for reasons of noise reduction. All in all it seems to work over here and road safety and noise pollution is much better than in the UK and if you're a petrol head and speed freak you can travel at the speed of light should you want to on most Autobahns.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm taking driving lessons at the moment and obviously that means I have to stick to the new limit. The number of people I have seen flashing their lights at myself or other learners and trying to overtake in pretty tight spaces is ridiculous.

Where these people never learners themselves? I understand there may be frustration at the limit but is trying to intimidate learners and putting yourself in danger really a good solution?

[Colr]

I drive round Edinburgh almost everyday. But over the last few months Ive also been cycling round town (I got a decent road bike from Santa for the first time in my life in December). Ive come to the conclusion that all drivers should be forced to ride a bike round the city for a few weeks before getting behind the wheel again. You see things in a whole new light when you leave the whole 'us and them' narrative behind and start thinking about cyclists and car users as just human beings who are all capable of making mistakes.

Good idea but alongside a requirement for cyclist to wear high visibility clothing and use hand signals.

[Colr]

I'm taking driving lessons at the moment and obviously that means I have to stick to the new limit. The number of people I have seen flashing their lights at myself or other learners and trying to overtake in pretty tight spaces is ridiculous.

Where these people never learners themselves? I understand there may be frustration at the limit but is trying to intimidate learners and putting yourself in danger really a good solution?

This is all part of your education. These people are called "****ers" and are all part of the experience of driving in the UK - regrettably!!

[snooky]

Good idea but alongside a requirement for cyclist to wear high visibility clothing and use hand signals.

On one night alone I saw three separate nutters in Edinburgh without lights cycling at night. :crazy:

[Bishop Hibee]

On one night alone I saw three separate nutters in Edinburgh without lights cycling at night. :crazy:

Commonplace in the Leith area. A favourite form of transport for pimps and drug pushers.

[hibsbollah]

Good idea but alongside a requirement for cyclist to wear high visibility clothing and use hand signals.

Im pretty sure hand signals is a requirement in the highway code, not sure if high vis is just advisory...

[McD]

Im pretty sure hand signals is a requirement in the highway code, not sure if high vis is just advisory...


Even helmets are just advisory.

kimd of daft that a car driver can be prosecuted for a passenger or themselves not wearing a seat belt, under the auspices of safety (which I completely agree with btw), yet a cyclist doesn't have to wear a helmet :confused:

[Scouse Hibee]

Im pretty sure hand signals is a requirement in the highway code, not sure if high vis is just advisory...

If cyclists would obey traffic lights,that would be a start.

[snooky]

Commonplace in the Leith area. A favourite form of transport for pimps and drug pushers.

And dope peddlers I suppose :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Even helmets are just advisory.

kimd of daft that a car driver can be prosecuted for a passenger or themselves not wearing a seat belt, under the auspices of safety (which I completely agree with btw), yet a cyclist doesn't have to wear a helmet :confused:

I couldn't agree more.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

First time I've been in the centre of town for a while this evening and the two differences I've noticed are that I now seem to catch a red light at every junction and all the drivers I was behind seemed to take an age to go from 0 to 20?

They are sitting at a red light waiting for it to go green and it seems as though they are surprised when it does. They then have to wait until the car in front actually moves forward before they put theirs in gear and take the hand brake off. We are going slow enough as it is, why can't they be ready to move?

[hibsbollah]

First time I've been in the centre of town for a while this evening and the two differences I've noticed are that I now seem to catch a red light at every junction and all the drivers I was behind seemed to take an age to go from 0 to 20?

They are sitting at a red light waiting for it to go green and it seems as though they are surprised when it does. They then have to wait until the car in front actually moves forward before they put theirs in gear and take the hand brake off. We are going slow enough as it is, why can't they be ready to move?

Playing on their phones at the lights.

[BroxburnHibee]

Early morning Queen Street is hilarious with drivers overtaking, jumping lights and accelerating like madmen. The look on their face when you pull up beside them at the final set of lights as they sit waiting is priceless. The police could have a field day when that switches to 20 mph.

It's already 20.

[staunchhibby]

Often think some cyclists are colour blind or do not understand a red traffic light means stop and not go through them with no thought of the consequences that can arise from this stupidity.

[The Tubs]

Some German residential streets have been designated "Play Streets" where its only allowed to drive at walking speed (3.6km/h). This not only has the effect of making it much safer for kids but also cuts down non residents using the area for short cuts and it keeps the vast majority of traffic on the main road until they reach their destination.

Also many main roads in the city have a speed limit of 30 Km/h (18mph) between 22:00 and 06:00 for reasons of noise reduction. All in all it seems to work over here and road safety and noise pollution is much better than in the UK and if you're a petrol head and speed freak you can travel at the speed of light should you want to on most Autobahns.

Alongside videogames, the decline of the Scottish national team could be attributed to the proliferation of cars on the streets.

[Colr]

Latest thing in London is deisel cars getting targetted. Westminster want the carge deisel cars double to park and Sadiq wants to up the congestion charge for deisel cars.

[Andy74]

Latest thing in London is deisel cars getting targetted. Westminster want the carge deisel cars double to park and Sadiq wants to up the congestion charge for deisel cars.

I thought Deisel was more efficient than petrol?

[RyeSloan]

Latest thing in London is deisel cars getting targetted. Westminster want the carge deisel cars double to park and Sadiq wants to up the congestion charge for deisel cars.

After spending years using the tax system to encourage people to buy diesel cars they show no shame in now implementing a specific tax on those very same cars!

[Colr]

After spending years using the tax system to encourage people to buy diesel cars they show no shame in now implementing a specific tax on those very same cars!

I've just switched from a diesel to a hybrid and pay zero road tax. Yayy!

Bizarre thing is that if I'd waited until April, I would be paying £140 road tax for the same new car as they are chnging the system.

[McD]

After spending years using the tax system to encourage people to buy diesel cars they show no shame in now implementing a specific tax on those very same cars!


I've just switched from a diesel to a hybrid and pay zero road tax. Yayy!

Bizarre thing is that if I'd waited until April, I would be paying £140 road tax for the same new car as they are chnging the system.


Which shows the government's green policies are a sham, and simply more ways to screw cash out of the motorist

[TRC]

Really? Since I've been here (Stockholm County) I usually see 30kmh in residential areas.

Town is town Stockholm huge city in comparison to where i live. do you live here or only working here sometimes??

[Scouse Hibee]

Early morning Queen Street is hilarious with drivers overtaking, jumping lights and accelerating like madmen. The look on their face when you pull up beside them at the final set of lights as they sit waiting is priceless. The police could have a field day when that switches to 20 mph.

You either haven't drove it recently or pay no attention to the 20mph signs.;-)

[pacoluna]

Which shows the government's green policies are a sham, and simply more ways to screw cash out of the motorist
won't 20mph lay out increase fuel consumption? due to more cars being on the road for a longer period of time? ps wonder if cyclists ever get done for speeding when zipping down the royal mile

[Peevemor]

won't 20mph lay out increase fuel consumption? due to more cars being on the road for a longer period of time?

I'm no expert but I think it will increase pollution - cars aren't optomised for 20mph.

[pacoluna]

No need for 2l engines in edinburgh now a days unless frequent long journeys on motorway, 1l or similar sized engines seem the way forward financially when it comes to driving

[ColinNish]

The 20mph zones were brought in to make the trams faster than the buses. FACT.

[Colr]

As predicted:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39001734

[RyeSloan]

As predicted:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39001734

I see there is also a scrapage scheme being mooted again...so after years of reducing car tax income to encourage diesel cars the next wheeze is to spend public money on replacing them. Genius.

In reality technology will put all this non sense to bed anyway...EV's are coming big time and no amount of political meddling or wasting of public funds is going to change that very much.

[Moulin Yarns]

I see there is also a scrapage scheme being mooted again...so after years of reducing car tax income to encourage diesel cars the next wheeze is to spend public money on replacing them. Genius.

In reality technology will put all this non sense to bed anyway...EV's are coming big time and no amount of political meddling or wasting of public funds is going to change that very much.

How do you propose someone like myself, who lives 75 miles from Easter Road manages with an EV? I reckon any fuel savings will be lost on the 4 overnight stays required going to and from each home game? !!!

[RyeSloan]

Buy a Tesla model S...300 mile range!

Chev Bolt has 240 mile range


Seriously though the revolution is only just starting...the e-golf has just went from a range of 83 miles to 124 for example. The ranges are increasing all the time and while I accept that they might not meet every requirement I'm pretty sure a 150 - 200 mile range will be more Jan enough for the vast majority of trips. All the more so when you consider the fact that your car will be fully charged every time it leaves the drive.

OK OK I know not everyone has a drive etc etc but it's pretty easy to see EV's and hybrids being the absolute norm in the relatively near future.

[Geo_1875]

You either haven't drove it recently or pay no attention to the 20mph signs.;-)

Did you know that the Council website shows Queen Street in Zone 2 with an implementation date of 28 February 2017?

[Moulin Yarns]

Buy a Tesla model S...300 mile range!

Chev Bolt has 240 mile range


Seriously though the revolution is only just starting...the e-golf has just went from a range of 83 miles to 124 for example. The ranges are increasing all the time and while I accept that they might not meet every requirement I'm pretty sure a 150 - 200 mile range will be more Jan enough for the vast majority of trips. All the more so when you consider the fact that your car will be fully charged every time it leaves the drive.

OK OK I know not everyone has a drive etc etc but it's pretty easy to see EV's and hybrids being the absolute norm in the relatively near future.

I should confess, I work beside the Transport Planning Guys in my Council and they have been responsible for putting in place the charging points, but we (the Council) have 3 EVs and one of them refuses to charge at a particular location. Nissan have been out and tried everything and are bamboozled.

While I try to use public transport, I do have regular trips to Edinburgh and Glasgow where my own car is necessary and it is just not feasible for me to have an EV yet as the round trip is too far

[RyeSloan]

I should confess, I work beside the Transport Planning Guys in my Council and they have been responsible for putting in place the charging points, but we (the Council) have 3 EVs and one of them refuses to charge at a particular location. Nissan have been out and tried everything and are bamboozled.

While I try to use public transport, I do have regular trips to Edinburgh and Glasgow where my own car is necessary and it is just not feasible for me to have an EV yet as the round trip is too far

Sure, that's why the world isn't currently full of EV's

But there is a clear trend...ICE sales down, EV's / Hybrids up.

Range and quality of EV's making dramatic progress

Some manufacturers stopping diesel production and most reducing or stopping development

All major car manufacturers and some 'disrupters' now developing EV's (and self driving cars)

Tesla has reservations for over 400,000 cars that haven't even been built yet!

The trend is only just starting and will take a number of years but it's momentum is now unstoppable.

[Geo_1875]

Sure, that's why the world isn't currently full of EV's

But there is a clear trend...ICE sales down, EV's / Hybrids up.

Range and quality of EV's making dramatic progress

Some manufacturers stopping diesel production and most reducing or stopping development

All major car manufacturers and some 'disrupters' now developing EV's (and self driving cars)

Tesla has reservations for over 400,000 cars that haven't even been built yet!

The trend is only just starting and will take a number of years but it's momentum is now unstoppable.

Prices will have to come down dramatically before ownership becomes viable for many.

[RyeSloan]

Prices will have to come down dramatically before ownership becomes viable for many.

Sure but with volume comes efficiency comes lower prices...that's the way these things work.

Tesla have built their gigafactory to do just that and are dramatically cutting the cost of the battery.

Then there is the fact that a lot of people lease cars rather than buy them so again different market trends will develop alongside the change.

Then finally you get Elon's vision of roof top solar feeding a power wall feeding your car...no more petrol costs and 'free' charging of your car forever (ignoring installation costs).

The technology is all there, what we are seeing now is the start of that technology being exploited on a commercial basis to the general public but that hide the decades of development and investment that has brought us to this stage...

[Killiehibbie]

Sure but with volume comes efficiency comes lower prices...that's the way these things work.

Tesla have built their gigafactory to do just that and are dramatically cutting the cost of the battery.

Then there is the fact that a lot of people lease cars rather than buy them so again different market trends will develop alongside the change.

Then finally you get Elon's vision of roof top solar feeding a power wall feeding your car...no more petrol costs and 'free' charging of your car forever (ignoring installation costs).

The technology is all there, what we are seeing now is the start of that technology being exploited on a commercial basis to the general public but that hide the decades of development and investment that has brought us to this stage...I hate to think how much the road tax will be once nobody buys fuel.

[Scouse Hibee]

Did you know that the Council website shows Queen Street in Zone 2 with an implementation date of 28 February 2017?

No it's hard enough driving whilst text messaging and reading signs without trying to search the net as well. However if that is the case I stand corrected and will revert to 30mph on Monday.

[lord bunberry]

All the 20mph zones around Leith also don't come into force until the end of the month.

[ColinNish]

Did you know that the Council website shows Queen Street in Zone 2 with an implementation date of 28 February 2017?

Sorry dude but Queen Street has been in 20mph since July 2016, it is in zone 1.

[lord bunberry]

Sorry dude but Queen Street has been in 20mph since July 2016, it is in zone 1.
I don't think that's true. York place was in zone 1

[ColinNish]

I don't think that's true. York place was in zone 1

I don't think its true either, i know its true. Its right on the line between zone 1 and 2. I work in Queen Street, we got notification of it.

[lord bunberry]

I don't think its true either, i know its true. Its right on the line between zone 1 and 2. I work in Queen Street, we got notification of it.
Having just checked the map I agree you are correct. I don't remember any 20mph signs on queen street.

[Scouse Hibee]

Having just checked the map I agree you are correct. I don't remember any 20mph signs on queen street.

They are painted on the road.

[Scouse Hibee]

Sorry dude but Queen Street has been in 20mph since July 2016, it is in zone 1.

Yaas I am vindicated :-)

[lord bunberry]

They are painted on the road.
Where?

[lord bunberry]

I'm prepared to admit that I was wrong about queen street, but there wasnt any signs or markings on the road indicating a 20mph speed limit.

[EH6 Hibby]

Queen Street has been 20mph since July. I drive that way at least once a week.

[ColinNish]

I'm prepared to admit that I was wrong about queen street, but there wasnt any signs or markings on the road indicating a 20mph speed limit.

I'll take a photo for you next week. 😉

[Scouse Hibee]

Where?

On Queen Street! Definitely there mate.

[Aldo]

This is not just a council led project. This is discussed at pretty much every multi agency/partnership meeting across the country. Preventing deaths on roads is a massive issue in Scotland and more needs done to prevent this happening. It is promoted by all emergency services with a large event most years involving them all. In Fife it's called 'CUT IT OUT' So driving at 20 mph instead of 30mph shouldn't be that much of an issue and it will save lives.


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[BroxburnHibee]

This is not just a council led project. This is discussed at pretty much every multi agency/partnership meeting across the country. Preventing deaths on roads is a massive issue in Scotland and more needs done to prevent this happening. It is promoted by all emergency services with a large event most years involving them all. In Fife it's called 'CUT IT OUT' So driving at 20 mph instead of 30mph shouldn't be that much of an issue and it will save lives.


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I appreciate all that I really do and I don't think any responsible person really disagrees with the need to save lives.

I just wasn't aware so many people were dying through vehicles going at 30 mph in edinburgh.

[Aldo]

I appreciate all that I really do and I don't think any responsible person really disagrees with the need to save lives.

I just wasn't aware so many people were dying through vehicles going at 30 mph in edinburgh.

There are not but there is more of a risk in Certain areas where the 20 limit would prevent a potential fatality.




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[ColinNish]

Lower Granton Road 20mph. What a ****ing joke.

[RyeSloan]

There are not but there is more of a risk in Certain areas where the 20 limit would prevent a potential fatality.




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The question is though what level of risk is actually being taken?

You can say having 20mph limit anywhere will help to prevent a potential fatality but that statement holds true on every road...key though is the word potential.

The fact is thought the Councils own pilot scheme didn't even measure road incidents as a measure of the pilots success. It recorded small decreases in average speed (2mph) in the 20mph zones and relied heavily on residents 'before' and 'after' perceptions to justify the expansion.

Indeed Portsmouth which the council often likes to cite actually scrapped plans due to a number of their zones actually showing an increase in incidents (least they measured them!).

So let's be clear here, this scheme (from what I have been able to find in my brief search) does NOT appear to based on any sound evidence that the introduction of 20mph zones based on signage alone reduces fatalities in Edinburgh (or Portsmouth for that matter).

[BroxburnHibee]

There are not but there is more of a risk in Certain areas where the 20 limit would prevent a potential fatality.




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"Certain areas" is the key phrase.

Try driving down regent road at 3 in the morning at 20mph and ask yourself who it's protecting.

[speedy_gonzales]

"Certain areas" is the key phrase.

Try driving down regent road at 3 in the morning at 20mph and ask yourself who it's protecting.
At 3 in the morning you could quite safely drive at 60mph, clear road, no residents, probably safer than many ACTUAL 60mph roads.

But that's not the point though is it?

I quite often drive through town in the small hours for work, maybe it's because I'm already on the clock so I'm in no particular hurry but I have no issue sitting at 20 on empty roads. Many folk do though, lost count the amount of times taxis will overtake on Johnston Terrace at way over 30 nevermind 20.
For some folk there will never be a valid reason to slow down!

[danhibees1875]

Buy a Tesla model S...300 mile range!

Chev Bolt has 240 mile range


Seriously though the revolution is only just starting...the e-golf has just went from a range of 83 miles to 124 for example. The ranges are increasing all the time and while I accept that they might not meet every requirement I'm pretty sure a 150 - 200 mile range will be more Jan enough for the vast majority of trips. All the more so when you consider the fact that your car will be fully charged every time it leaves the drive.

OK OK I know not everyone has a drive etc etc but it's pretty easy to see EV's and hybrids being the absolute norm in the relatively near future.

I like that we're going down the electric route. Price aside, I'd be tempted but the range and number of charge points still concern me. I would use my car to get north quite a lot and I don't think there are anywhere near enough charge points up there (from last time I checked).

Hybrids seem like a good choice at the moment - they seem to be popular in London at the moment, I was in a few different ubers down there and they were all hybrids. The wee monitor that showed the flow of power to and from the battery was cool to watch too!

[Moulin Yarns]

I like that we're going down the electric route. Price aside, I'd be tempted but the range and number of charge points still concern me. I would use my car to get north quite a lot and I don't think there are anywhere near enough charge points up there (from last time I checked).

Hybrids seem like a good choice at the moment - they seem to be popular in London at the moment, I was in a few different ubers down there and they were all hybrids. The wee monitor that showed the flow of power to and from the battery was cool to watch too!

Heading North from Edinburgh you will find charging points at Kinross Park and Ride, Broxden Park and ride (Perth) and Pitlochry station car park. Not sure where the next ones are.

My issue is the time you would have to wait while the car is charging.

[Scouse Hibee]

"Certain areas" is the key phrase.

Try driving down regent road at 3 in the morning at 20mph and ask yourself who it's protecting.

If it's the law I just ask myself should I obey the speed limit and the answer is yes.

[Geo_1875]

On my daily trip into work this morning I notice that there is a sign on Queen Street just after St Colme Street indicating that, as I stated earlier in this thread, the 20 mph limit comes into effect on 28 February 2017. While the road markings and streetside signs have been there for a while the current limit on Queen Street is 30 mph.

I'll accept apologies individually or as a group.

[Scouse Hibee]

On my daily trip into work this morning I notice that there is a sign on Queen Street just after St Colme Street indicating that, as I stated earlier in this thread, the 20 mph limit comes into effect on 28 February 2017. While the road markings and streetside signs have been there for a while the current limit on Queen Street is 30 mph.

I'll accept apologies individually or as a group.

Apologies?

[Geo_1875]

Apologies?

I'm not often wrong but when I am I apologise to people who I've called out. Apparently someone who works in Queen Street was notified that they were in the 20 mph zone some time ago. I was also accused of speeding and ignoring road signs. I only pointed out that Queen Street was in Zone 2 and drivers who didn't know that were causing disruption to those who did.

[Colr]

I like that we're going down the electric route. Price aside, I'd be tempted but the range and number of charge points still concern me. I would use my car to get north quite a lot and I don't think there are anywhere near enough charge points up there (from last time I checked).

Hybrids seem like a good choice at the moment - they seem to be popular in London at the moment, I was in a few different ubers down there and they were all hybrids. The wee monitor that showed the flow of power to and from the battery was cool to watch too!

Quite a few around. I've just bought a hybrid having traded in my old diesel.

Couple of Tesla's round where I live as well.

[Sergio sledge]

I like that we're going down the electric route. Price aside, I'd be tempted but the range and number of charge points still concern me. I would use my car to get north quite a lot and I don't think there are anywhere near enough charge points up there (from last time I checked).

Hybrids seem like a good choice at the moment - they seem to be popular in London at the moment, I was in a few different ubers down there and they were all hybrids. The wee monitor that showed the flow of power to and from the battery was cool to watch too!

When doing long journeys hybrids aren't really any better in terms of MPG than an ICE car. http://emissionsanalytics.com/hybrid-efficiency-put-to-the-test/

If you are doing lots of short journeys (20 - 30 miles a day) with the occasional long journey a hybrid is a good option though.

I had a shot of a BMW i3 range extender for the weekend a while back and it is brilliant. Did around 100 miles on electric and then there was a small petrol engine which charged the battery to extend the range if you went beyond this. It took the range to nearly 200 miles.

Provided you buy the correct electric vehicle (capable of fast charging) then you only need to take a 25-30 minute break once every couple of hours to get the battery back to 80% charge. I drove down to my family's house in the borders from Inverness using the BMW i3 and I stopped in Perth for 25 minutes to charge up and it only really added 10 minutes to my normal journey time as I usually stop there for a toilet break and a coffee most times I go down. The highway code recommends you take a 15 minute break every 2 hours of driving anyway, so when driving for work we have to do this. Driving an electric vehicle would just mean that this break was enforced rather than at the drivers discretion.

[derekHFC]

The changing of the speed limit is an effort to change the attitude of people driving.

If the road is a 30mph limit, you'll find that a number of people will drive at say 34mph-38mph (at an estimate), some maybe more than that.

By reducing the speed limit to 20mph, they are probably hoping that people will drive at 24mph-28mph.

According to the link on the council website (HERE (http://edinburghcouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ca131eddb0084197b160edbbad2ca8c7)) I would say Queen Street is in zone 2 which starts next week.

Some very interesting comments though.

[Scouse Hibee]

I drive regularly between nine sites in Edinburgh. I generally stick pretty rigidly to the speed limit and often review my own driving habits, braking,speed etc through our fleet navman system that I manage anyway. Some interesting reading when I compare my stats to others.