Stubbs v Lennon

[Lancs Harp]

Trying to put aside todays game to look at the wider picture, what do you think are the merits and negatives of each particular manager? Are we moving in the right direction? Is Hibs 2017 better than Hibs 2016? Tougher to beat now? Football not as easy on the eye? What do you think?

[Speedway]

More steel, less flair now.

[Shrekko]

Trying to put aside todays game to look at the wider picture, what do you think are the merits and negatives of each particular manager? Are we moving in the right direction? Is Hibs 2017 better than Hibs 2016? Tougher to beat now? Football not as easy on the eye? What do you think?

I didn't often find Stubby's football 'easy on the eye'- we tended to dominate the ball and not create many chances. We also lost an incredible amount of goals in terms of opposition chances created. We were great against SPL teams and Hearts and Rangers though.

Lennon for me is doing a great job. The table tells you that and the fact the team play different formations and tactics more often. I wouldn't say the football is less pretty either- just that we sometimes play a few more long balls.

He out thought laptop man today anyway.

[Clarence]

I like Lennon and I have no doubt that he is the man to get us back in the Premier League but I do miss Stubbsy. I watched Time for Heroes last night and it reminded me of what a lovely big scouser he is and how he really did represent our club and its values impeccably. He'll always be a legend but I now want to see Lennon write his own Hibs history.

[WS Hibs]

Lennon's team - Hibs find it harder to win games but other sides find it much harder to beat us.

Stubbs' team - More attacking but incredibly frustrating going forward. Would often have 20 shots and not find the net once. Often conceded soft goals.

[Northernhibee]

Stubbs had a much better eye for a player but Lennon has been able to grind out results, despite the odd shocker here or there.

[h1bee123]

Stubbs had a more difficult job in that he had to completely transform the team and he did it well. Look at the players he brought in:
Gray
McGregor
Fontaine
Barley
Fyvie
McGinn
McGeouch
Keatings

Lennon's not had to do much in the transfer dept. but I've only really been impressed with Rocky so far. Lennon's job has been to make the squad less beatable but really I think its difficult to compare the two since there is no Rangers or Hearts in the league this year.

[Sir David Gray]

Lennon will be judged properly next season, assuming that he sticks around.

Stubbs had a far more difficult league to contend with than Lennon has this year.

Personally I think we are not much different in the attacking front to the previous couple of seasons (we still miss far too many chances) although defensively we are a lot better. I would be confident about us getting a clean sheet against anyone at the moment, except Celtic.

[pacoluna]

Stubbs had a more difficult job in that he had to completely transform the team and he did it well. Look at the players he brought in:
Gray
McGregor
Fontaine
Barley
Fyvie
McGinn
McGeouch
Keatings

Lennon's not had to do much in the transfer dept. but I've only really been impressed with Rocky so far. Lennon's job has been to make the squad less beatable but really I think its difficult to compare the two since there is no Rangers or Hearts in the league this year.
So you haven't rated laidlaw, Commons or holt?

[Lancs Harp]

If Stubbs had stayed where do you think we would be in relation to the present team? Would we be six points clear,would you have expected us to kick on in light of the previous two seasons and our cup win? Or had Stubbsy taken things as far as he could and it was time for new ideas, such as Lennon has brought in?

[gazzag70]

The signings Stubbs brought to the team were superb,real quality. For years before all we had signed were wage thieves. Lennons signings have yet to reach that standard.It is an easier league this year and were it not for Stubbs signings I doubt we would be where we are.

[wookie70]

Lennon is doing an ok job. His signings have been disappointing and I'm not sure about changing the side as often as he does. No way of knowing what we would have done if Stubbs had stayed but I would wager we would be more points ahead in the league and have a better squad. Both Stubbs and Lennon seem to have the knack of getting the players working hard and listening to the game plan. Lennon's football is hard to watch at times but to be fair we would look pretty under Stubbs and not be any further up the field. They are both streets ahead of many of the impostors we have had over the last few years.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I think Lennon's team would probably narrowly beat Stubbsy's over a couple of games. Not as stylish or entertaining but organised and more likely to bully and control the midfield.

[h1bee123]

So you haven't rated laidlaw, Commons or holt?

Laidlaw - better than Oxley but I think Rocky is clearly no.1
Commons - emergency loan didn't really count (i'm not putting any of Stubss' loan signings - hendo/stokes)
Holt - Still unsure. I get that the physical presence is helping but I'd rather watch a team with more pace.

Here is my dream team since we've been relegated (including loanees) -
Rocky

Stevenson
Hanlon
McGregor
Gray

Fyvie
McGinn
Henderson
Commons

Stokes
Cummings

Subs:
Malonga
Dylan
Logan
Fontaine
Bartley
Allan
Boyle

If we were playing big match Bartley in for Stokes and stick Commons further up.

[Stantons Angel]

Interesting post, one to think about too.

I love Alan Stubbs i liked the way he projected himself and his thoughts to the fans and was always ready to learn. The team we have today were basically his signings and he galvanised the support behind them too.

Winning the Scottish Cup was so special and we are still on a high from that.

I was disappointed in him leaving like he did but wished him well.

Lennon came in and complimented the previous manager of the type of player he left and set about using them in the way he felt best.

Stubbs' side i felt played with more flair and expression in a much harder league set up than now. But we couldnt score goals and leaked them at the other end.

Lennon lets them play their football but is always aware of the soft centre we have had for the previous years in this division. He has gave them a steeliness they had been lacking and what a difference that has made.
BUT this league this season lacks the competitiveness of having Hearts and Rangers in it.

Sometimes it looked as if Stubbs didnt know how to change things when we were screaming out for change.
Lennon comes prepared to do that with two wingers on the bench today if change was needed.

Its hard to chose who is better and i hope we just continue on our way to promotion back where we belong!

[JackLadd]

I'm happy with Lenny, but if he ever walks away I'd take Stubbs back.

[Heisenberg]

We are about to see how different they are in terms of results. Will Hibs crack on in the league and not let that fall away despite the huge cup match coming up? We fell away at the same point last season so I'm interested to see if Lennon keeps them focused. Raith away is massive.

[weecounty hibby]

I love Stubbs for bringing is the cup but I like the way Lennon operates. Really hates to lose, will fight the clubs corner with the press, agents etc. I think in the long run they will both be judged as managers who set the foundations of a modern Hibs, set up for success on and off the pitch. Also give LD huge respect for her part in that as well, love that woman!!

[JimBHibees]

More steel, less flair now.

Bout sums it up.

[hibs0666]

Stubbs had a more difficult job in that he had to completely transform the team and he did it well. Look at the players he brought in:
Gray
McGregor
Fontaine
Barley
Fyvie
McGinn
McGeouch
Keatings

Lennon's not had to do much in the transfer dept. but I've only really been impressed with Rocky so far. Lennon's job has been to make the squad less beatable but really I think its difficult to compare the two since there is no Rangers or Hearts in the league this year.

Compared to Stubbs, Lennon has not received the same level of support for player recruitment from Leeann.

[Hiber-nation]

Malonga/Stokes v Holt/Graham is a big difference.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

More steel, less flair now.

This.

[SlickShoes]

There isn't much difference in the team between the two managers, I think both have "failed" to get us scoring enough goals with the exception of Jason's contribution, and I used "failed" as I don't think it's much of a failure since good strikers are hard to find and it's even harder to attract someone to our league.

If Holt had scored 3 or 4 more goals than he has and was well on his way to double figures i'd be much happier as it stands I think his presence has been great but we are still lacking goals.

We seem a bit more defensively sound despite not having our first choice goalie for most of the season.

It's hard to separate the two managers at the moment as we are now at the point where things went wrong for stubbs and we lost a lot of games. If Lennon picks us up maximum league points in the next 5 games then I think he will have done a better job in the league than stubbs.

In saying that Stubbs is a legend forever and I think no manager we get for many years will be has highly regarded as Stubbs is for winning us the cup last year.

[Andy74]

Malonga/Stokes v Holt/Graham is a big difference.

I loved Malonga but one of Stubbs worst decisions was allowing him to go so regardless of the player's request he should not have been allowed to go and the fact he couldn't or didn't want to keep him counts as a black mark against Stubbs which helped contribute to a very poor end of season league wise for us.

We had Malonga then Stokes and we finished below Falkirk. Holt is contributing towards us being at the top of the league and was influential against a supposedly top league side yesterday. They might not be as good as Malonga and Stokes in theory but it is working in getting us where we want to be.

Stubbs also signed Sinclair, Dje dje, Feruz and Dagnall by the way so you could have picked some of those to go against the likes of Graham eh?

[Hiber-nation]

I loved Malonga but one of Stubbs worst decisions was allowing him to go so regardless of the player's request he should not have been allowed to go and the fact he couldn't or didn't want to keep him counts as a black mark against Stubbs which helped contribute to a very poor end of season league wise for us.

We had Malonga then Stokes and we finished below Falkirk. Holt is contributing towards us being at the top of the league and was influential against a supposedly top league side yesterday. They might not be as good as Malonga and Stokes in theory but it is working in getting us where we want to be.

Stubbs also signed Sinclair, Dje dje, Feruz and Dagnall by the way so you could have picked some of those to go against the likes of Graham eh?

I just mean the style of player - Malonga and Stokes were different but both had a good touch. You didn't have the option to launch it long to them though when the going was tough like yesterday. I'm not expressing an opinion on their relative abilities, just the style of player.

Not sure what your last point is about, different styles but none really of the desired quality.

[jdships]

More steel, less flair now.

That's it for me :agree:
For this season ,at least, RESULTS are eevrything regardless how they are achieved . As they say no matter how many goals you win by you only get three points :greengrin

[pacoluna]

Interesting post, one to think about too.

I love Alan Stubbs i liked the way he projected himself and his thoughts to the fans and was always ready to learn. The team we have today were basically his signings and he galvanised the support behind them too.

Winning the Scottish Cup was so special and we are still on a high from that.

I was disappointed in him leaving like he did but wished him well.

Lennon came in and complimented the previous manager of the type of player he left and set about using them in the way he felt best.

Stubbs' side i felt played with more flair and expression in a much harder league set up than now. But we couldnt score goals and leaked them at the other end.

Lennon lets them play their football but is always aware of the soft centre we have had for the previous years in this division. He has gave them a steeliness they had been lacking and what a difference that has made.
BUT this league this season lacks the competitiveness of having Hearts and Rangers in it.

Sometimes it looked as if Stubbs didnt know how to change things when we were screaming out for change.
Lennon comes prepared to do that with two wingers on the bench today if change was needed.

Its hard to chose who is better and i hope we just continue on our way to promotion back where we belong!
Strange, I think my opinion regarding stubbs differs from most on this, I always got the vibe that's Stubbs was always looking to try his hands else where, Even after the cup final during interview and during the bus parade he didn't seem as jubilant as i expected, compared to JC after league cup.

[Borderhibbie76]

Lennon's team - Hibs find it harder to win games but other sides find it much harder to beat us.

Stubbs' team - More attacking but incredibly frustrating going forward. Would often have 20 shots and not find the net once. Often conceded soft goals.
Find it harder to win under Lennon?? Don't agree with this mate we r 6 clear with a game in hand....we're we ever top under Stubbsy?? Also lennon has us winning at Dumbarton QOS and Falkirk- something Stubbsy s teams struggled to do consistently. Not knocking Stubbsy as I love the guy but can't agree with that comment

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[Paisley Hibby]

Lennon seems to get more out of the players than Stubbs did. Lennon's signings generally not as good as Stubbs'. Loved Stubbs, respect Lennon.

[SanFranHibs]

If Lennon completes 2 full season which I think he will, as he will want at least 1 season with us in the top division, then I think it will easier to judge and a more fair comparison.

And of course ONCE we win promotion this season we can always switch the Collins won the Cup with Mowbrays team to Lennon won promotion with Stubbs' team. :greengrin

Whereas Stubbs had a very unhappy time at Rotherham after managing Hibs, only time will tell if Lennon might be luckier in that he is managing Hibs after a bad spell with a English Championship team . We win promotion under Lennon, have a decent first year back in the top flight and another decent cup run or two and Lennons stock will be on the rise.

Though I would not normally presume to speak for others I think I can safely say that I speak for all Hibs fans in saying there is one place where Mr Stubbs will forever be given a heartfelt welcome.......under the Sunshine On Leith.

18066

:flag::flag:

[wookie70]

Find it harder to win under Lennon?? Don't agree with this mate we r 6 clear with a game in hand....we're we ever top under Stubbsy?? Also lennon has us winning at Dumbarton QOS and Falkirk- something Stubbsy s teams struggled to do consistently. Not knocking Stubbsy as I love the guy but can't agree with that comment

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Might be something to do with less points at the same point in the season and pumped out of cups early. I struggle to see how anyone can think Lennon has us winning more often. Not much between the two managers and the next few weeks are Lennon's chance to push on.

[Borderhibbie76]

Might be something to do with less points at the same point in the season and pumped out of cups early. I struggle to see how anyone can think Lennon has us winning more often. Not much between the two managers and the next few weeks are Lennon's chance to push on.
Less points so far is the key...this was the time last year when the league hit the skids under Stubbsy...so be interesting to see what happens over the coming months. Only out the league cup as don't give a jot about the Irn Bru cup quite frankly

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[G B Young]

It would be interesting to see how Stokes would have performed under Lennon had we managed to sign him in January. When you watch him in the 'Time for Heroes' DVD you appreciate what an outstanding player he can be on his day. I wonder if working with Lennon again would have seen him turn it on more consistently than he did under Stubbs.

I also think we miss the quality of delivery Henderson could produce and would have loved to see him stay at ER.

Overall I'd say that Stubbs' side were easier on the eye when they were on song, but six months into Lennon's tenure I think we're starting to see the foundations of a stronger, more consistent side emerge.

[h1bee123]

First 30 games in charge all competitions:

Lennon
W 17
D 8
L 5
GF 52
GA 19

Stubbs
W 16
D 8
L 6
GF 61
GA 31

Big Games
Lennon (Hearts, Dundee United, Falkirk, Brondby)
Pl 9
W 4
D 3
L 2

Stubbs (Dundee United, Falkirk, Hearts, Rangers, Ross County)
Pl 12
W 4
D 4
L 4

Stubbs has more difficult games but it all seems rather even between two of them.

[WS Hibs]

Find it harder to win under Lennon?? Don't agree with this mate we r 6 clear with a game in hand....we're we ever top under Stubbsy?? Also lennon has us winning at Dumbarton QOS and Falkirk- something Stubbsy s teams struggled to do consistently. Not knocking Stubbsy as I love the guy but can't agree with that comment

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We had 16 wins from 23 games last season at this point, we have 14 from 23 games right now.

The two key differences this season is that we haven't lost much against our title contenders (1 win, 1 draw, 1 defeat against United compared to 1 win and 2 defeats against Rangers last season), and that our title contenders are doing much worse than Rangers were. Dundee United are 17 points worse off right now than Rangers were at this point in the season.

[high bee]

We would've been further ahead IMO.

Stubbs wouldn't have needed the time to asses the squad and had more time and idea on where to recruit. Also Lennon admitted he had to reign it in a bit cause the squad weren't reacting positively to him whereas Stubbs knew the guys inside out. Added to that Lennon said he doesn't believe we could go on a massive winning streak yet Stubbs always promoted a vision of believing we would win every game and that rubbed off on the team.

In the long term know Lennon is settled in, it could all be different?

[Dashing Bob S]

There isn't much difference in the team between the two managers, I think both have "failed" to get us scoring enough goals with the exception of Jason's contribution, and I used "failed" as I don't think it's much of a failure since good strikers are hard to find and it's even harder to attract someone to our league.

If Holt had scored 3 or 4 more goals than he has and was well on his way to double figures i'd be much happier as it stands I think his presence has been great but we are still lacking goals.

We seem a bit more defensively sound despite not having our first choice goalie for most of the season.

It's hard to separate the two managers at the moment as we are now at the point where things went wrong for stubbs and we lost a lot of games. If Lennon picks us up maximum league points in the next 5 games then I think he will have done a better job in the league than stubbs.

In saying that Stubbs is a legend forever and I think no manager we get for many years will be has highly regarded as Stubbs is for winning us the cup last year.

The big problem has been the lack of goals from the midfield. Lennon partially addressed this with Commons, but it's something that is an ongoing problem. With more width and pace the centre of the field might not be so bunched, perhaps affording the likes of McGinn etc more shooting opportunities.

[Swedish hibee]

Stubbs for me👍
The club was a complete shambles before he arrived.