Hope not hate campaign

[Hibbyradge]

Donations welcome


Hope not Hate


Dear David,

I’m worried. There is a real danger that UKIP leader Paul Nuttall could win the forthcoming Stoke Central by-election. A victory here could give UKIP a new lease of life – at a time when it is struggling both politically and legally. UKIP’s vote has been declining in council by-elections and the party is mired in financial scandal after financial scandal.

However, the Stoke by-election could give them the boost it needs to change its fortunes. We must do everything to stop them.

HOPE not hate is launching an urgent appeal to do just that. We need £5,000 to stop Nuttall in Stoke and begin campaigning in Leigh, Greater Manchester, where another parliamentary by-election is likely to be held this spring.

Please help stop UKIP

Nuttall is more right wing than Nigel Farage and he is moving UKIP to the right. Unsurprisingly, he is celebrating every extremist policy of Donald Trump.

And just like Trump, truth appears totally alien to Nuttall.

He claimed to live in a small terraced house in Stoke on his nomination form but Channel 4 News found the property empty. Nuttall moans about politicians but has one of the worst attendance records in the European Parliament but one of the biggest expenses claims. He is currently under investigation for misusing EU money.

Please help us expose Nuttall for the fraudster he is

https://donate.hopenothate.org.uk/page/contribute/help-expose-nuttall

The £5,000 will go towards:

15,000 ‘Nuttall Fraudster’ leaflets
5,000 letters which will be hand-delivered to key women voters in Stoke Central
A 8pp tabloid newspaper for Leigh
Please give us the tools to stop Nuttall in Stoke. This is really important.

Thanks

Nick

PS: Victory -- HOPE not hate supporters have helped force the Government into a partial climbdown over the status of EU nationals currently living in the UK. Over the last few days 6,000 of our supporters emailed their local MPs calling for EU nationals to be allowed to stay after Britain leaves the EU and this, and other pressure, yesterday forced the Government to announce that their status would only change through a vote in Parliament. While we must keep the pressure on to ensure the Government honour its word, this shows what we can do when we get organised.

[Geo_1875]

Interesting that this doesn't state which candidate they will allow to win should their aim of stopping UKIP come to fruition. Would another Tory MP be elected to boost their majority at Westminster or will another Labour MP take the seat?

[Hibbyradge]

Interesting that this doesn't state which candidate they will allow to win should their aim of stopping UKIP come to fruition. Would another Tory MP be elected to boost their majority at Westminster or will another Labour MP take the seat?

Labour are still favourites so stopping UKIP should see them hold.

[Stranraer]

I'm a fan of some of their previous campaigns against the BNP an this sounds good too but I will keep donating to UAF

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I find the title of the campaign quite patronising. From what I can tell, it aims to offer moral guidance to the hateful people that voted for Brexit? And this will be achieved by mud-slinging at one candidate and the people you think will vote for him?

Slinging mud at a candidate is sad but fairly standard approach which is one of the reasons people care less about politics these days. However, if what you say about Nuttal is true then he probably deserves it. But using words like hate to describe parts of the electorate you disagree with is wrong and preaching to people rarely wins arguments. I do not believe there are many hateful people in this country or that hate was the route of Brexit. For me, using language like that will only help fuel divisions, and encourage people vote for other parties. Would it not be more effective and constructive to offer a positive message about how whatever candidate the group backs can help local communities?

[Geo_1875]

I find the title of the campaign quite patronising. From what I can tell, it aims to offer moral guidance to the hateful people that voted for Brexit? And this will be achieved by mud-slinging at one candidate and the people you think will vote for him?

Slinging mud at a candidate is sad but fairly standard approach which is one of the reasons people care less about politics these days. However, if what you say about Nuttal is true then he probably deserves it. But using words like hate to describe parts of the electorate you disagree with is wrong and preaching to people rarely wins arguments. I do not believe there are many hateful people in this country or that hate was the route of Brexit. For me, using language like that will only help fuel divisions, and encourage people vote for other parties. Would it not be more effective and constructive to offer a positive message about how whatever candidate the group backs can help local communities?

I think negative campaigning has put many people off politics all together but it does inflame the bias of many people. Particularly in Scotland, it is difficult to find a Party that puts forward a realistic positive agenda, and I find that depressing.

[hibsbollah]

I find the title of the campaign quite patronising. From what I can tell, it aims to offer moral guidance to the hateful people that voted for Brexit? And this will be achieved by mud-slinging at one candidate and the people you think will vote for him?

Slinging mud at a candidate is sad but fairly standard approach which is one of the reasons people care less about politics these days. However, if what you say about Nuttal is true then he probably deserves it. But using words like hate to describe parts of the electorate you disagree with is wrong and preaching to people rarely wins arguments. I do not believe there are many hateful people in this country or that hate was the route of Brexit. For me, using language like that will only help fuel divisions, and encourage people vote for other parties. Would it not be more effective and constructive to offer a positive message about how whatever candidate the group backs can help local communities?

The campaign is not saying the people who voted for Brexit are 'hateful', the campaign is saying UKIP pedals hatred to win votes. And it does.

I have family and friends in the constituency which has a very active far right lunatic fringe. The EDL always get a good turnout in the potteries. Some of these family and friends are spending their precious time canvassing for the Labour candidate for the first time because they are worried about hate crime locally. Its a very important election for lots of reasons. If UKIP dont win there they are surely finished as an electoral threat anywhere.

[beensaidbefore]

If the constituents feel that he is the best person to represent their views he will be elected. Should we stand in their way?

[beensaidbefore]

Donations welcome


Hope not Hate


Dear David,

I’m worried. There is a real danger that UKIP leader Paul Nuttall could win the forthcoming Stoke Central by-election. A victory here could give UKIP a new lease of life – at a time when it is struggling both politically and legally. UKIP’s vote has been declining in council by-elections and the party is mired in financial scandal after financial scandal.

However, the Stoke by-election could give them the boost it needs to change its fortunes. We must do everything to stop them.

HOPE not hate is launching an urgent appeal to do just that. We need £5,000 to stop Nuttall in Stoke and begin campaigning in Leigh, Greater Manchester, where another parliamentary by-election is likely to be held this spring.

Please help stop UKIP

Nuttall is more right wing than Nigel Farage and he is moving UKIP to the right. Unsurprisingly, he is celebrating every extremist policy of Donald Trump.

And just like Trump, truth appears totally alien to Nuttall.

He claimed to live in a small terraced house in Stoke on his nomination form but Channel 4 News found the property empty. Nuttall moans about politicians but has one of the worst attendance records in the European Parliament but one of the biggest expenses claims. He is currently under investigation for misusing EU money.

Please help us expose Nuttall for the fraudster he is

https://donate.hopenothate.org.uk/page/contribute/help-expose-nuttall

The £5,000 will go towards:

15,000 ‘Nuttall Fraudster’ leaflets
5,000 letters which will be hand-delivered to key women voters in Stoke Central
A 8pp tabloid newspaper for Leigh
Please give us the tools to stop Nuttall in Stoke. This is really important.

Thanks

Nick

PS: Victory -- HOPE not hate supporters have helped force the Government into a partial climbdown over the status of EU nationals currently living in the UK. Over the last few days 6,000 of our supporters emailed their local MPs calling for EU nationals to be allowed to stay after Britain leaves the EU and this, and other pressure, yesterday forced the Government to announce that their status would only change through a vote in Parliament. While we must keep the pressure on to ensure the Government honour its word, this shows what we can do when we get organised.

Whilst it is admirable campaigning for the EU nationals living here, do you realise that th is is a bargaining chip that the UK government my wish to use in negotiations. What happens if we announce that all EU nationals can stay then the EU kick all Brits out of Europe?

[Holmesdale Hibs]

The campaign is not saying the people who voted for Brexit are 'hateful', the campaign is saying UKIP pedals hatred to win votes. And it does.

I have family and friends in the constituency which has a very active far right lunatic fringe. The EDL always get a good turnout in the potteries. Some of these family and friends are spending their precious time canvassing for the Labour candidate for the first time because they are worried about hate crime locally. Its a very important election for lots of reasons. If UKIP dont win there they are surely finished as an electoral threat anywhere.

the EDL are far right lunatic fringe as you say, and even if they were a political party no one other than few ****ers would vote for them. I don't consider them much of a threat and are best ignored, unless they're breaking the law and then they should be arrested.

UKIP are quite different and whether you like it or not are a mainstream political party. I'm not an avid follower or even likely to vote for them, but when I do hear them speak they have a less devisive and ignorant message than those who think they can gain political points by snearing at them rather than addressing the issues they raise. If people want to beat UKIP, they need to come up with something better and start offering solutions to the issues they raise rather than getting on their high horse.

[hibsbollah]

the EDL are far right lunatic fringe as you say, and even if they were a political party no one other than few ****ers would vote for them. I don't consider them much of a threat and are best ignored, unless they're breaking the law and then they should be arrested.

UKIP are quite different and whether you like it or not are a mainstream political party. I'm not an avid follower or even likely to vote for them, but when I do hear them speak they have a less devisive and ignorant message than those who think they can gain political points by snearing at them rather than addressing the issues they raise. If people want to beat UKIP, they need to come up with something better and start offering solutions to the issues they raise rather than getting on their high horse.

What you are saying is essentially meaningless. In a democracy you are allowed to campaign against a candidate, if this is 'getting on your high horse' or 'gaining political points' then I'm all for it.

Its all about opinions but to be honest I think there has not been nearly enough stigmatising or smearing UKIP. More please. And what 'solutions' do you suggest for the issues they raise anyway?

[northstandhibby]

What you are saying is essentially meaningless. In a democracy you are allowed to campaign against a candidate, if this is 'getting on your high horse' or 'gaining political points' then I'm all for it.

Its all about opinions but to be honest I think there has not been nearly enough stigmatising or smearing UKIP. More please. And what 'solutions' do you suggest for the issues they raise anyway?

Totally agree 100% with this.

Folk spreading fear and division such as the likes of Ukip, BNP and the EDL have to be outed and the truth put out there of what they are all about. They must be confronted at every opportunity. Unfortunately Ukip were able to spread fear and division and got a foothold into mainstream politics and their lies managed to dupe some ordinary well meaning folk into incongruously voting to leave the EU which will hit the ordinary and poorest folk the most. It's not too late to drive these **** back into the sewers they escaped from.

glory glory

[Holmesdale Hibs]

What you are saying is essentially meaningless. In a democracy you are allowed to campaign against a candidate, if this is 'getting on your high horse' or 'gaining political points' then I'm all for it.

Its all about opinions but to be honest I think there has not been nearly enough stigmatising or smearing UKIP. More please. And what 'solutions' do you suggest for the issues they raise anyway?

Campaigning for a candidate yes, I'm all for that. Although from what I can tell that's not what the OP was about. When I wrote the last couple of posts I was questioning the nature of the campaigns and not the right of people to make them. I find negative campaigning depressing, and when it comes from the left quite self righteous.

As for solutions to the issues UKIP raise, maybe some acknowledgement that there were problems with the EU in the first place. Of course a lot of good came from it as well, which UKIP should mention and don't. But I'm not a politician and it's not my job to offer solutions, I'm just having a moan because I want to care more about politics but struggle to find anyone with a message I can believe in.

[Hibrandenburg]

Whilst it is admirable campaigning for the EU nationals living here, do you realise that th is is a bargaining chip that the UK government my wish to use in negotiations. What happens if we announce that all EU nationals can stay then the EU kick all Brits out of Europe?

Really do you seriously believe we should be using human beings lives as bargaining chips in trade negotiations? Also many EU countries have already guaranteed UK citizens residence permits and even citizenship if they want. The thought of holding residents in any country to ransom is utterly despicable and I'm having difficulty believing what I'm reading.

[Hibrandenburg]

the EDL are far right lunatic fringe as you say, and even if they were a political party no one other than few ****ers would vote for them. I don't consider them much of a threat and are best ignored, unless they're breaking the law and then they should be arrested.

UKIP are quite different and whether you like it or not are a mainstream political party. I'm not an avid follower or even likely to vote for them, but when I do hear them speak they have a less devisive and ignorant message than those who think they can gain political points by snearing at them rather than addressing the issues they raise. If people want to beat UKIP, they need to come up with something better and start offering solutions to the issues they raise rather than getting on their high horse.

UKIP OFFER nothing more than populistic pie in the sky solutions to problems that they themselves invented. Only the extreme gullible and xenophobes can take them really seriously, unfortunately there's enough of both to give them a platform.

[hibsbollah]

Campaigning for a candidate yes, I'm all for that. Although from what I can tell that's not what the OP was about. When I wrote the last couple of posts I was questioning the nature of the campaigns and not the right of people to make them. I find negative campaigning depressing, and when it comes from the left quite self righteous.

As for solutions to the issues UKIP raise, maybe some acknowledgement that there were problems with the EU in the first place. Of course a lot of good came from it as well, which UKIP should mention and don't. But I'm not a politician and it's not my job to offer solutions, I'm just having a moan because I want to care more about politics but struggle to find anyone with a message I can believe in.

So negative campaigning is only self righteous when it comes from the Left? :dunno: That suggests to me that you're more right wing than you give youself credit for :wink:

[hibsbollah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaTA45ivJgM

Nuttall on the NHS, a 'monolithic hangover'.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

So negative campaigning is only self righteous when it comes from the Left? :dunno: That suggests to me that you're more right wing than you give youself credit for :wink:

Ha, I'm neither really. I'm a floating voter and just pick who I agree with at the time. There are too many flaws in all parties at the moment to have a strong view in favour of one over an other. I don't like negative campaigning from either side, I just mentioned the left because it was most relevant to this thread.

[lyonhibs]

Whilst it is admirable campaigning for the EU nationals living here, do you realise that th is is a bargaining chip that the UK government my wish to use in negotiations. What happens if we announce that all EU nationals can stay then the EU kick all Brits out of Europe?

As the EU nations are by and large not run by such dithering ****wits (or rather, if they are, they're at least dithering ****wits that believe in the fundamental tenets of the EU) as the Pig ****ger and now Cruella de Thatcher, I really don't think there's any probability of the EU "bloc" coming out and being so absurd and inhumane as to use the lives of Brits based in the EU as "a bargaining chip" in the upcoming negotiations.

[Hibbyradge]

If the constituents feel that he is the best person to represent their views he will be elected. Should we stand in their way?

No one is standing in anyone's way.

This is about campaigning during an election. Campaigning to let the electorate know the truth about Paul Nuttall and his racist chums.

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/08/sick-racist-joke-told-man-helping-ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-win-seat-parliament-video/

[beensaidbefore]

Really do you seriously believe we should be using human beings lives as bargaining chips in trade negotiations? Also many EU countries have already guaranteed UK citizens residence permits and even citizenship if they want. The thought of holding residents in any country to ransom is utterly despicable and I'm having difficulty believing what I'm reading.

Im stating what I think not what I believe is right. I genuinely believe that they will use that for bargaining purposes regardless of how distasteful that is.

[beensaidbefore]

No one is standing in anyone's way.

This is about campaigning during an election. Campaigning to let the electorate know the truth about Paul Nuttall and his racist chums.

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/08/sick-racist-joke-told-man-helping-ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-win-seat-parliament-video/

Im not sure if you have any connection with the area or not. I don't and for that reason don't think it's my place to try and influence the vote one way or an other. I didn't mean others shouldn't, but I think it should really be down to the voters in the constituency concerned.

[beensaidbefore]

UKIP OFFER nothing more than populistic pie in the sky solutions to problems that they themselves invented. Only the extreme gullible and xenophobes can take them really seriously, unfortunately there's enough of both to give them a platform.

Then it's up to us to show them a better way. Calling thenm names and stupid for calling people names is kinda stupid imo.

Think of it a bit like this, if you are walking along and someone smiles at you, it's likely you will smile back. If someone is rude or aggressive, you are likely to respond like that.

[Hibbyradge]

Im not sure if you have any connection with the area or not. I don't and for that reason don't think it's my place to try and influence the vote one way or an other. I didn't mean others shouldn't, but I think it should really be down to the voters in the constituency concerned.

Do you think that should also apply to senior politicians who travel the country trying to gather votes for their local candidates?

[Holmesdale Hibs]

UKIP OFFER nothing more than populistic pie in the sky solutions to problems that they themselves invented. Only the extreme gullible and xenophobes can take them really seriously, unfortunately there's enough of both to give them a platform.

This is the kind of extreme liberalism I struggle with. UKIP had 12.5% of the vote in the last election, and that would likely have been higher if we didn't have the FPTP system. I personally do not believe 1 in 8 of voters are xenophobes or extreme gulliables, I'd guess a lot more of them are ex-Labour voters that the party has lost touch with. As one of the previous posters said, being aggressive is not a good way to start a dialogue, especially if what you're insulting them about isn't even true. It's better to find out what local folk care about and then try and form a positive message. A carrot rather than a stick as corporates would put it.

[Hibrandenburg]

This is the kind of extreme liberalism I struggle with. UKIP had 12.5% of the vote in the last election, and that would likely have been higher if we didn't have the FPTP system. I personally do not believe 1 in 8 of voters are xenophobes or extreme gulliables, I'd guess a lot more of them are ex-Labour voters that the party has lost touch with. As one of the previous posters said, being aggressive is not a good way to start a dialogue, especially if what you're insulting them about isn't even true. It's better to find out what local folk care about and then try and form a positive message. A carrot rather than a stick as corporates would put it.

You're right, 1 in 8 voters aren't xenophobes, most surveys carried out in the UK show it's more like 1 in 3 or 4. The good news is that many of those who admit to having xenophobic beliefs know it and actively try and address them through education, the bad news is that many xenophobes don't even consider themselves xenophobic and these together with open xenophobes form your UKIP voter base.

Like it or not UKIP is a party that appeals to the closet racist and overt racist alike.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

You're right, 1 in 8 voters aren't xenophobes, most surveys carried out in the UK show it's more like 1 in 3 or 4. The good news is that many of those who admit to having xenophobic beliefs know it and actively try and address them through education, the bad news is that many xenophobes don't even consider themselves xenophobic and these together with open xenophobes form your UKIP voter base.

Like it or not UKIP is a party that appeals to the closet racist and overt racist alike.

1 in 3/4? Where did you read that? Genuinely curious, can you send a link?

[Hibrandenburg]

1 in 3/4? Where did you read that? Genuinely curious, can you send a link?

BSA British Social Attitudes carryout surveys on a regular basis (annually I think) and trends would appear to vary between high 20% and 40% of people who consider themselves to have racist feelings towards foreigners. I'm on my phone so I'll ask you to google it yourself.

If I remember correctly they also break down the results into voter groups showing the highest number of xenophobes vote for the Tories (no surprise there) but there's also a surprisingly high number of Labour voters who admit to having xenophobic beliefs. Like I said the numbers vary from year to year but that's to be expected depending on what's happening in the world and what line the media is taking.

[--------]

The campaign is not saying the people who voted for Brexit are 'hateful', the campaign is saying UKIP pedals hatred to win votes. And it does.

I have family and friends in the constituency which has a very active far right lunatic fringe. The EDL always get a good turnout in the potteries. Some of these family and friends are spending their precious time canvassing for the Labour candidate for the first time because they are worried about hate crime locally. Its a very important election for lots of reasons. If UKIP dont win there they are surely finished as an electoral threat anywhere.


You're right, 1 in 8 voters aren't xenophobes, most surveys carried out in the UK show it's more like 1 in 3 or 4. The good news is that many of those who admit to having xenophobic beliefs know it and actively try and address them through education, the bad news is that many xenophobes don't even consider themselves xenophobic and these together with open xenophobes form your UKIP voter base.

Like it or not UKIP is a party that appeals to the closet racist and overt racist alike.


:agree: The 'respectable' face of British racism, legitimising the more overtly hate-driven attitudes exhibited by the EDL and BNP.

Which is why I agree with Hibsbollah's post.

Could someone put a link up so that I (and maybe others?) could contribute to the campaign?

[Hibbyradge]

:agree: The 'respectable' face of British racism, legitimising the more overtly hate-driven attitudes exhibited by the EDL and BNP.

Which is why I agree with Hibsbollah's post.

Could someone put a link up so that I (and maybe others?) could contribute to the campaign?

https://donate.hopenothate.org.uk/page/contribute/help-expose-nuttall

[hibsbollah]

You're right, 1 in 8 voters aren't xenophobes, most surveys carried out in the UK show it's more like 1 in 3 or 4. The good news is that many of those who admit to having xenophobic beliefs know it and actively try and address them through education, the bad news is that many xenophobes don't even consider themselves xenophobic and these together with open xenophobes form your UKIP voter base.

Like it or not UKIP is a party that appeals to the closet racist and overt racist alike.

:top marks

There are two ways of looking at the reality of mass racial prejudice. You can put your head in your hands and despair at human nature. Or you can reassure yourself with the knowledge that racism/xenophobia/other forms of prejudiced behaviour is learned behaviour. Which means you can unlearn it.

[--------]

https://donate.hopenothate.org.uk/page/contribute/help-expose-nuttall


Thank you, sir. You're a scholar and a gentleman. :thumbsup:

[Hibrandenburg]

:top marks

There are two ways of looking at the reality of mass racial prejudice. You can put your head in your hands and despair at human nature. Or you can reassure yourself with the knowledge that racism/xenophobia/other forms of prejudiced behaviour is learned behaviour. Which means you can unlearn it.

Guilty as charged m'lud! Having grown up in an environment of little or no racial diversity and at a time where casual racism was the darling of the media and the source of all main stream comedians material, it was hard not to grow up without certain preconceptions on racial stereotypes. Thankfully I had the opportunity to educate myself that there are no racial stereotypes that stand up to closer scrutiny. There are stereotypes of humans but they come in all colours and sizes.

[Hibbyradge]

Thank you, sir. You're a scholar and a gentleman. :thumbsup:

You are, of course, correct in that analysis, but I should point out that the link was available in the OP. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

:top marks

There are two ways of looking at the reality of mass racial prejudice. You can put your head in your hands and despair at human nature. Or you can reassure yourself with the knowledge that racism/xenophobia/other forms of prejudiced behaviour is learned behaviour. Which means you can unlearn it.

I see that from a slightly different angle.

I think that fear of the unknown is a natural, and healthy, human condition. Our amygdala sees to that and keeps us safe.

It is natural for us to have preferences.

However, what we can learn, is how to control those lizard brain reactions and emotions. but for many, that's a choice they won't, or can't, make.

One of the subjects I train is unconscious bias. To help give me a better understanding of the subject, I did a fair bit of research including reading the book "Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People". It was fascinating and I would commend it to you. (you'll get a copy for less than a tenner on ebay). Even the co-aothor, Mahzarin R. Banaji, who was born in India, found she had a preference towards white Americans!

It proves that we are naturally inclined to "prefer" one race to another, one gender to another, one sexuality etc. This isn't learned behaviour as such, but it can easily be rationalised.

It's a huge subject, and I'm not going to do it justice in these few lines, but why not try one or more of the Harvard Implicit Awareness Tests. (That's a general suggestion, not specifically aimed at you, Bollah. I seem to recall that you've done at least one before?)

To get an idea of how they work, try out the non-controversial Flower/Insect test (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/user/agg/blindspot/indexfi.htm) first.

Then you can chose from the 13 main tests. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

[McSwanky]

Just rent a big screen in the middle of Stoke and put this on loop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKEsyIuTrO8

That should do the trick.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

BSA British Social Attitudes carryout surveys on a regular basis (annually I think) and trends would appear to vary between high 20% and 40% of people who consider themselves to have racist feelings towards foreigners. I'm on my phone so I'll ask you to google it yourself.

If I remember correctly they also break down the results into voter groups showing the highest number of xenophobes vote for the Tories (no surprise there) but there's also a surprisingly high number of Labour voters who admit to having xenophobic beliefs. Like I said the numbers vary from year to year but that's to be expected depending on what's happening in the world and what line the media is taking.

Thanks, I'm on my phone as well but will have a read later.

[beensaidbefore]

Do you think that should also apply to senior politicians who travel the country trying to gather votes for their local candidates?


Often politicians are elected on the strength of their policies, and if those policies are closely aligned with that of the wider party it could be relevant for a senior politician to be seen to be endorsing those policies.

[beensaidbefore]

Not for a moment suggesting this small clip makes it cut and dry, but it raises some interesting questions about underlying attitudes from different ethnic communities. This clip hints at there are also prejudice towards white people from other communities when it comes to considerations of family/marriage etc.

Now if I said, I cant marry a black woman as my family would disapprove, you could be forgive for thinking they are kinda racist, or at least narrow minded. Sadly the full programme is not available on Iplayer any more, but if you even watch the clip, it gives examples of how these kind of attitudes can be found in non-white communities too.

Does that make them racist too?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p034ff75

[Hibbyradge]

Does that make them racist too?

Catholics used to be "discouraged" from marrying non catholics.

Protestants were "discouraged" from marrying Catholics.

Both still happen in Northern Ireland and to a lesser extent in Scotland.

That's bigotry.

If an individual is singled out because of the colour of their skin, then it's racist and should be opposed.

UKIP are racist.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not for a moment suggesting this small clip makes it cut and dry, but it raises some interesting questions about underlying attitudes from different ethnic communities. This clip hints at there are also prejudice towards white people from other communities when it comes to considerations of family/marriage etc.

Now if I said, I cant marry a black woman as my family would disapprove, you could be forgive for thinking they are kinda racist, or at least narrow minded. Sadly the full programme is not available on Iplayer any more, but if you even watch the clip, it gives examples of how these kind of attitudes can be found in non-white communities too.

Does that make them racist too?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p034ff75

In short, yes.

Racism isn't restricted to white Europeans but that doesn't mean it's ok. Racism breeds racism.

[beensaidbefore]

Catholics used to be "discouraged" from marrying non catholics.

Protestants were "discouraged" from marrying Catholics.

Both still happen in Northern Ireland and to a lesser extent in Scotland.

That's bigotry.

If an individual is singled out because of the colour of their skin, then it's racist and should be opposed.

UKIP are racist.

Your correct that your example is bigotry, but the video highlights that people of Asian and African decent also have preferences based purely on appearance. It seemed that those interviewed preferred people from their own ethnicities. That is different to bigotry imo.

[beensaidbefore]

In short, yes.

Racism isn't restricted to white Europeans but that doesn't mean it's ok. Racism breeds racism.

Of course its not OK. What it does do is highlight the fact that it is not only white people who have this kind of views.

I find it interesting that the same language is not always used. You often hear things like preserving culture, which is racism in a round about way.

[Hibbyradge]

Your correct that your example is bigotry, but the video highlights that people of Asian and African decent also have preferences based purely on appearance. It seemed that those interviewed preferred people from their own ethnicities. That is different to bigotry imo.

Which is why I went on to mention racism.

[Hibbyradge]

Of course its not OK. What it does do is highlight the fact that it is not only white people who have this kind of views.

I find it interesting that the same language is not always used. You often hear things like preserving culture, which is racism in a round about way.

Show me an organised political party which is racist towards white people.

I'll campaign against it with you.

[beensaidbefore]

Which is why I went on to mention racism.

I think we are in agreement then?

[Hibrandenburg]

Of course its not OK. What it does do is highlight the fact that it is not only white people who have this kind of views.

I find it interesting that the same language is not always used. You often hear things like preserving culture, which is racism in a round about way.

I don't think you'll find many on here who'll say racism in any form is ok.

[beensaidbefore]

Show me an organised political party which is racist towards white people.

I'll campaign against it with you.

I don't know of one. Merely pointing out that is not purely a white person problem.

[beensaidbefore]

I don't think you'll find many on here who'll say racism in any form is ok.


I have never lived in a community where I have knowingly been discriminated for being white. I know that in some parts of the country there are some white people who feel that they have.

The BBC article highlights that this is not entirely impossible. If a person does feel they have been discriminated against, I think it is their right to voice their opinion and or dissatisfaction.

[Hibbyradge]

I don't know of one. Merely pointing out that is not purely a white person problem.

You do so on a thread in which you criticise people for campaigning against a racist political party.

I'm not sure what your point is.

It comes across like you're suggesting we do nothibg about the issue because some black folk are also racist.

[Hibbyradge]

I have never lived in a community where I have knowingly been discriminated for being white. I know that in some parts of the country there are some white people who feel that they have.

The BBC article highlights that this is not entirely impossible. If a person does feel they have been discriminated against, I think it is their right to voice their opinion and or dissatisfaction.

I concur.

[Hibbyradge]

But here's the thing.

I have never heard of a white football player having bananas thrown at him.

I've never heard a player complain that they were called a white bas....

No black person has ever told a white person to get out of my country.

And so on.

[beensaidbefore]

You do so on a thread in which you criticise people for campaigning against a racist political party.

I'm not sure what your point is.

It comes across like you're suggesting we do nothibg about the issue because some black folk are also racist.

No, sorry that's not what I'm getting at. I just find it difficult to swallow that anyone who voted UKIP is racist. I think it is too easy to tar everyone with that brush. There are communities where they are far more divided than Edinburgh and it is too easy to dismiss their concerns as 1 way racism. If the communities are at logger heads perhaps there is fault on both sides?

[Hibbyradge]

No, sorry that's not what I'm getting at. I just find it difficult to swallow that anyone who voted UKIP is racist. I think it is too easy to tar everyone with that brush. There are communities where they are far more divided than Edinburgh and it is too easy to dismiss their concerns as 1 way racism. If the communities are at logger heads perhaps there is fault on both sides?

Again, I generally agree.

The campaign is against Paul Nuttall who holds racist view, not the electorate.

[beensaidbefore]

True. Perhaps I have been straying from the main point. I suppose I just felt that the thread was taking the tone that because Nuttall is racist the whole UKIP movement is being dismissed as so. I genuinely believe there are some people who don't hold extreme views but agree in general with the UKIP stance. To be clear I am not one of them.

I'd rather engage in a positive way to try and change their mind, rather than silence them, or dismiss their views out of hand.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

You're right, 1 in 8 voters aren't xenophobes, most surveys carried out in the UK show it's more like 1 in 3 or 4. The good news is that many of those who admit to having xenophobic beliefs know it and actively try and address them through education, the bad news is that many xenophobes don't even consider themselves xenophobic and these together with open xenophobes form your UKIP voter base.

Like it or not UKIP is a party that appeals to the closet racist and overt racist alike.

Interesting, thanks. Some of the other topics on there are worth a read as well.

The stat I found is that in 2013, 3% of people described themselves as 'very prejudice', and 27% of people said they were 'a little prejudice'. http://www.natcen.ac.uk/blog/can-we-really-measure-racial-prejudice Lets take those numbers for arguments sake although they've probably shifted a bit because of Brexit.

I suppose this question is open to interpretation. As a Scot living down south I hear the odd derisory reference to the Scottish diet. Perhaps these people are 'a little prejudiced', but racist or hateful? Not for me, especially as I'm married to one of them (in return I bought her a deep fried mars bar during a trip north, which she quite liked). Anyone on here ever made a joke to a Glaswegian mate? You're skating on thin ice. What about referring to little englanders?

Are you of the opinion that people who describe themselves as 'a little prejudiced' are xenophobic and hateful? I'd personally interpret those numbers as the 3% of people are xenophobic (more than I expected) and the 27%, and some of the remainder, are somewhere in a spectrum between xenophobic and not xenophobic, with the vast majority being no worse than politically incorrect.

It's for the reasons above that I take issue with using the word 'hate'. It seems like that's only fit for the 3% and it's unnecessarily insulting and causing division with the other 27% who are the target audience.

[Hibrandenburg]

I have never lived in a community where I have knowingly been discriminated for being white. I know that in some parts of the country there are some white people who feel that they have.

The BBC article highlights that this is not entirely impossible. If a person does feel they have been discriminated against, I think it is their right to voice their opinion and or dissatisfaction.

Who exactly is saying it's not happening and that they don't have a right to voice their dissatisfaction? Serious question because I'm confused at what point you're trying to make.

[beensaidbefore]

Who exactly is saying it's not happening and that they don't have a right to voice their dissatisfaction? Serious question because I'm confused at what point you're trying to make.

My point is that racisct or prejudiced views are not only held by white people. I'm not sure what issue you are taking with that?

[Hibrandenburg]

My point is that racisct or prejudiced views are not only held by white people. I'm not sure what issue you are taking with that?

Nobody is saying that and I can't see what the point is in constantly stating the obvious! :confused:

[beensaidbefore]

Nobody is saying that and I can't see what the point is in constantly stating the obvious! :confused:

The only reason I mentioned the point again is because you asked. If you look over all of your replies to mine they have been asking me questions, or looking for a reply. I made my point a while back and you keep going on about it. I felt by giving a link to the BBC video it was there for anyone to view and make their own mind. I am happy to stop speaking about it, but it seems like you are less so.

[hibsbollah]

My point is that racisct or prejudiced views are not only held by white people. I'm not sure what issue you are taking with that?

You may as well say, on a thread criticising diving or simulation in professional football, that it's not just forwards that dive, it's midfielders as well!! :grr:There's nothing wrong with your point, it's 100% accurate, but there's absolutely no reason to bring it up because it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[beensaidbefore]

You may as well say, on a thread criticising diving or simulation in professional football, that it's not just forwards that dive, it's midfielders as well!! :grr:There's nothing wrong with your point, it's 100% accurate, but there's absolutely no reason to bring it up because it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

I felt the BBC article was relevant as further back in the thread it was mentioned that 20-40% of the British population had some racist views. It made no mention what section of this society this related to but given the context of this thread it implied that those would be ukip voters. From that I took white people. The BBC programme highlighted that people from other ethnicities may also hold beliefs of that nature. That is why I thought it was interesting and relevant to this thread.