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madhatter
04-02-2017, 05:19 PM
Only 1 football team on the park and yes Hibs needed to do a lot better but is there really a committee discussing initiatives for getting more fans into grounds across Scotland? Solve it much quicker, any anti-football is punished by referees and teams actually need to play football to win matches.

Number 11 for Ayr repeatedly jumped into McGregor without looking at the ball. Number 16 just fouled everything that moved hence subbed...everything was about time wasting, fouling and hoofing the ball anywhere. I'd accept Hibs losing when teams play football and we are mince but what I just saw today, ignoring the result, made me think why do I have a ST?

Parker got spoken to for going to get the ball but their manager, coaches and players were time wasting at every opportunity but nothing really done - what 1 min added on on top of the usual 3mins added time?. What a sorry sight Scottish football is...

Hero76
04-02-2017, 05:28 PM
You may as well chuck it.

houstonhibbee
04-02-2017, 05:30 PM
Only 1 football team on the park and yes Hibs needed to do a lot better but is there really a committee discussing initiatives for getting more fans into grounds across Scotland? Solve it much quicker, any anti-football is punished by referees and teams actually need to play football to win matches.

Number 11 for Ayr repeatedly jumped into McGregor without looking at the ball. Number 16 just fouled everything that moved hence subbed...everything was about time wasting, fouling and hoofing the ball anywhere. I'd accept Hibs losing when teams play football and we are mince but what I just saw today, ignoring the result, made me think why do I have a ST?

Parker got spoken to for going to get the ball but their manager, coaches and players were time wasting at every opportunity but nothing really done - what 1 min added on on top of the usual 3mins added time?. What a sorry sight Scottish football is...
If were in a similar position next week you will be delirious.......

HIBERNIAN-0762
04-02-2017, 05:30 PM
Only 1 football team on the park and yes Hibs needed to do a lot better but is there really a committee discussing initiatives for getting more fans into grounds across Scotland? Solve it much quicker, any anti-football is punished by referees and teams actually need to play football to win matches.

Number 11 for Ayr repeatedly jumped into McGregor without looking at the ball. Number 16 just fouled everything that moved hence subbed...everything was about time wasting, fouling and hoofing the ball anywhere. I'd accept Hibs losing when teams play football and we are mince but what I just saw today, ignoring the result, made me think why do I have a ST?

Parker got spoken to for going to get the ball but their manager, coaches and players were time wasting at every opportunity but nothing really done - what 1 min added on on top of the usual 3mins added time?. What a sorry sight Scottish football is...

All part of the hun/yam/masonic conspiracy against Hibernian Football Club.

There, I've said it :wink:

Canon Hannan
04-02-2017, 05:38 PM
All part of the hun/yam/masonic conspiracy against Hibernian Football Club.

There, I've said it :wink:


[/INDENT]

The SFA for the last 80 years 😂

CMurdoch
04-02-2017, 05:46 PM
Only 1 football team on the park and yes Hibs needed to do a lot better but is there really a committee discussing initiatives for getting more fans into grounds across Scotland? Solve it much quicker, any anti-football is punished by referees and teams actually need to play football to win matches.

Number 11 for Ayr repeatedly jumped into McGregor without looking at the ball. Number 16 just fouled everything that moved hence subbed...everything was about time wasting, fouling and hoofing the ball anywhere. I'd accept Hibs losing when teams play football and we are mince but what I just saw today, ignoring the result, made me think why do I have a ST?

Parker got spoken to for going to get the ball but their manager, coaches and players were time wasting at every opportunity but nothing really done - what 1 min added on on top of the usual 3mins added time?. What a sorry sight Scottish football is...

As a wise man once said you can only **** with the cock you've got.
They did what they needed to get a result, given their resources, and the rich team couldn't break them down.

Dashing Bob S
04-02-2017, 05:51 PM
As a wise man once said you can only **** with the cock you've got.
They did what they needed to get a result, given their resources, and the rich team couldn't break them down.

Exactly. It's hardly the fault of the hunchbacked chap with the small cock, if he steals the dance floor dolly bird while the pretty boy with the huge chopper is preening in the mirror and texting about what he's going to do at the nightclub next Sunday.

CMurdoch
04-02-2017, 06:03 PM
Exactly. It's hardly the fault of the hunchbacked chap with the small cock, if he steals the dance floor dolly bird while the pretty boy with the huge chopper is preening in the mirror and texting about what he's going to do at the nightclub next Sunday.

:top marksCannae beat that

madhatter
04-02-2017, 06:14 PM
Exactly. It's hardly the fault of the hunchbacked chap with the small cock, if he steals the dance floor dolly bird while the pretty boy with the huge chopper is preening in the mirror and texting about what he's going to do at the nightclub next Sunday.

Sorry nice analogy and all that but our 2nd division is this standard? Pardon me if I find that slightly concerning. some of the worst football I watch in terms of persistent timewasting and fouling is Scottish. Don't get me wrong it happens everywhere but for the amount it happens at ER, how many get booked? Probably 3 players across 3 seasons so far...summed up with Shinnie being booked for a slight tug of a shirt, whilst Stevenson getting taken out by donkey boy with a tackle from behind is still just a booking. Let's get Bartley on the pitch..oh wait he gets sent off for sneezing near the opposing player..animal so he is!

Their left back got spoken to then 5mins later he plays the "oh where has the ball gone, I'm not sure where it is...oh there it is...I'll stand here with it now for 20seconds then throw it in the direction of McGregor and hopefully number 11 just leaps into him and gets away with the foul".

No excuses but freezing my backside off at ER to watch that makes me want to give up watching football. Bizarrely I'd prefer we got a footballing lesson at ER from a team rather than that trash. I may support Hibs and all but I'm also going along to see a modicum of football...

Steve20
04-02-2017, 06:32 PM
Blaming anything other than Hibs and Neil Lennon is wrong.

Drawing at home to Ayr is a disgrace

Canon Hannan
04-02-2017, 06:36 PM
Sorry nice analogy and all that but our 2nd division is this standard? Pardon me if I find that slightly concerning. some of the worst football I watch in terms of persistent timewasting and fouling is Scottish. Don't get me wrong it happens everywhere but for the amount it happens at ER, how many get booked? Probably 3 players across 3 seasons so far...summed up with Shinnie being booked for a slight tug of a shirt, whilst Stevenson getting taken out by donkey boy with a tackle from behind is still just a booking. Let's get Bartley on the pitch..oh wait he gets sent off for sneezing near the opposing player..animal so he is!

Their left back got spoken to then 5mins later he plays the "oh where has the ball gone, I'm not sure where it is...oh there it is...I'll stand here with it now for 20seconds then throw it in the direction of McGregor and hopefully number 11 just leaps into him and gets away with the foul".

No excuses but freezing my backside off at ER to watch that makes me want to give up watching football. Bizarrely I'd prefer we got a footballing lesson at ER from a team rather than that trash. I may support Hibs and all but I'm also going along to see a modicum of football...

I feel your pain mate. They were brutal and the ref was Crap.

PeterboroHibee
04-02-2017, 06:36 PM
Daft thread. Teams are entitled to play however they like provided its within the laws of the game, and I think there are far bigger factors that influence peoples decisions whether to turn up to games (money, fixture changes, teams winning etc!).

Canon Hannan
04-02-2017, 06:37 PM
Blaming anything other than Hibs and Neil Lennon is wrong.

Drawing at home to Ayr is a disgrace

Let's blame Lianne and big Frank too?

Golden Bear
04-02-2017, 06:41 PM
Blaming anything other than Hibs and Neil Lennon is wrong.

Drawing at home to Ayr is a disgrace

That's about it. Lennon picked the wrong starting line up and the players he did select just did not perform. Anything else is incidental.

Northernhibee
04-02-2017, 06:43 PM
Ayr were always going to set up like that. It was a game for big Holty, as shown by the good he did when he came on.

houstonhibbee
04-02-2017, 06:44 PM
That's about it. Lennon picked the wrong starting line up and the players he did select just did not perform. Anything else is incidental.
agreed. We look to hibs to provide the entertainment not the opposition. iF hibs had played well, created lots of chances and won convincingly no-one would care what the other team were up to

madhatter
04-02-2017, 06:45 PM
Daft thread. Teams are entitled to play however they like provided its within the laws of the game, and I think there are far bigger factors that influence peoples decisions whether to turn up to games (money, fixture changes, teams winning etc!).

And why are teams struggling to get fans into stadiums I wonder? Quality of the pies? Forget Hibs for a second and view this game as a neutral, the game is football, regardless of rules of the game. Would you as a neutral pay to go see football be happy at barely seeing football? If I went to see ice hockey and all the players just huddled in the corner and protected the puck for the rest of the match after getting a goal I'd not end up going to ice hockey again regardless of players divine right to play however they please.

Football is a product. Fans are central to that product. The product in this country outside of Celtic is dire, really dire.

Canon Hannan
04-02-2017, 07:00 PM
And why are teams struggling to get fans into stadiums I wonder? Quality of the pies? Forget Hibs for a second and view this game as a neutral, the game is football, regardless of rules of the game. Would you as a neutral pay to go see football be happy at barely seeing football? If I went to see ice hockey and all the players just huddled in the corner and protected the puck for the rest of the match after getting a goal I'd not end up going to ice hockey again regardless of players divine right to play however they please.

Football is a product. Fans are central to that product. The product in this country outside of Celtic is dire, really dire.

Plus expensive!

houstonhibbee
04-02-2017, 07:02 PM
And why are teams struggling to get fans into stadiums I wonder? Quality of the pies? Forget Hibs for a second and view this game as a neutral, the game is football, regardless of rules of the game. Would you as a neutral pay to go see football be happy at barely seeing football? If I went to see ice hockey and all the players just huddled in the corner and protected the puck for the rest of the match after getting a goal I'd not end up going to ice hockey again regardless of players divine right to play however they please.

Football is a product. Fans are central to that product. The product in this country outside of Celtic is dire, really dire.
don't think anyone's disagreeing with any of that. What is not agreed is that its up to the away team to improve the product rather than being in Hibs hands for games at easter road.

PeterboroHibee
04-02-2017, 07:05 PM
And why are teams struggling to get fans into stadiums I wonder? Quality of the pies? Forget Hibs for a second and view this game as a neutral, the game is football, regardless of rules of the game. Would you as a neutral pay to go see football be happy at barely seeing football? If I went to see ice hockey and all the players just huddled in the corner and protected the puck for the rest of the match after getting a goal I'd not end up going to ice hockey again regardless of players divine right to play however they please.

Football is a product. Fans are central to that product. The product in this country outside of Celtic is dire, really dire.

Your making a generalisation that teams do that on a frequent basis in Scotland, which isnt true. A team who doesnt have anywhere near the resources as us have come and by adopting a certain style of football have got a point that might have been valuable to them. Fair play. Part of football is being able to adapt to different styles of play and tactics, which we failed to do today. People would consider anything other than Barcelona-esq play 'anti-football', whereas others are happy just to see their team win. If a player is cheating I agree they should be punished, but some of the things you describe are tactics that are exploited by everyone (including us).

Regaring factors that will have a far bigger influence on attendances, how about the cost of tickets? The fact games are constantly being changed on short notice at the whim of the tv companies? The change in culture that demands instant success, and anything else is failure? The poor running of the Scottish game that has made an inferior 'product' (I dont mean the quality of the football, but rather how its packaged)? The fact that those who should be shouting about the positive aspects of the Scottish game are constantly negative about it? Im sure the list could go on.

snooky
04-02-2017, 07:12 PM
What was Ayr's 2nd half kick-off all about? I suspect it was just another time wasting exercise (and it worked).
One player runs forward to the front edge of the centre circle and the kicker boots the ball as far as he can.
The ref makes them take it again. Another wasted minute (of many).

Okay, Ayr played the way their resources dictated by jeez, how many folk would go and watch a game like that every week?

madhatter
04-02-2017, 07:15 PM
Your making a generalisation that teams do that on a frequent basis in Scotland, which isnt true. A team who doesnt have anywhere near the resources as us have come and by adopting a certain style of football have got a point that might have been valuable to them. Fair play. Part of football is being able to adapt to different styles of play and tactics, which we failed to do today. People would consider anything other than Barcelona-esq play 'anti-football', whereas others are happy just to see their team win. If a player is cheating I agree they should be punished, but some of the things you describe are tactics that are exploited by everyone (including us).

Regaring factors that will have a far bigger influence on attendances, how about the cost of tickets? The fact games are constantly being changed on short notice at the whim of the tv companies? The change in culture that demands instant success, and anything else is failure? The poor running of the Scottish game that has made an inferior 'product' (I dont mean the quality of the football, but rather how its packaged)? The fact that those who should be shouting about the positive aspects of the Scottish game are constantly negative about it? Im sure the list could go on.

I think persistent fouling and time-wasting is slightly out with your Barcelona-esque vs anti-football comparison. Don't expect Ayr to play like Barcelona, some football would be nice. I wonder how much time was wasted on goalkicks and throw-ins? I wonder how much time the ball was up in the clouds?

Also, I'm sorry making a product cheaper doesn't always make it more popular. On today's showing I'd say it'd need to be £10 or cheaper. I can check reviews on a film and go see it at the cinema knowing it'll be quite good, why should I choose the football? The product, simples. People look for the package etc. but ultimately it comes down to watching something exciting hence why 6-6 draws with Motherwell are remembered.

Hibs have a part to play but Scottish football and all the teams have to help improve the product. Not make it cheaper to justify the dross.

emerald green
04-02-2017, 07:36 PM
I know where madhatter is coming from, and I sympathise. That was awful to watch today.

McColl set out his stall to kill the game, and it made matters worse when Hibs presented them with a gift of a goal straight away.

Onceinawhile
04-02-2017, 08:24 PM
As if we played great football today. We were quite happy to go long as well so let's not kid ourselves.

snooky
04-02-2017, 08:46 PM
As if we played great football today. We were quite happy to go long as well so let's not kid ourselves.

Too many didn't break sweat today. The ones that did, nothing came off for them unfortunately.
Our players need to watch how the big guys play. They run for 90 mins. There's nobody on the park swinging a brolly and whistling "Singing in the Rain".

ShinyFantastic
04-02-2017, 09:38 PM
I'm sorry but you can't blame Ayr for playing like that. What they did was pretty much straight out of the "get at least a draw at Easter Road" instruction book.

Too many times we have witnessed these sort of results at home since we managed to end up in this dreadful division. It is up to our management team and players to find a way to stop this happening because, ultimately, it has already cost us promotion twice and threatens to do so again.

wookie70
04-02-2017, 09:49 PM
What was Ayr's 2nd half kick-off all about? I suspect it was just another time wasting exercise (and it worked).
One player runs forward to the front edge of the centre circle and the kicker boots the ball as far as he can.
The ref makes them take it again. Another wasted minute (of many).

Okay, Ayr played the way their resources dictated by jeez, how many folk would go and watch a game like that every week?

What was wrong with kick off that it needed to be retaken. I can only think the ref hadn't blown the whistle or an Ayr player was in our half as it is fine for the ball to go forward or back and to score directly from the kick off.

snooky
04-02-2017, 11:48 PM
What was wrong with kick off that it needed to be retaken. I can only think the ref hadn't blown the whistle or an Ayr player was in our half as it is fine for the ball to go forward or back and to score directly from the kick off.

That's my point. The Ayr player was well into our half. It was a deliberate action to make the kick off be taken again. Thus killing a minute of time.
There should be a law that if the kick off is foul then it is given to the other team - like a foul throw.

EastCalderHibby
05-02-2017, 11:50 AM
Blaming anything other than Hibs and Neil Lennon is wrong.

Drawing at home to Ayr is a disgrace

:top marks 100%agree dont forget if these players were playing for places on sundays game v them then l would think lennon has a lot to think about
as who to start with and strong subs

matty_f
05-02-2017, 11:56 AM
That's my point. The Ayr player was well into our half. It was a deliberate action to make the kick off be taken again. Thus killing a minute of time.
There should be a law that if the kick off is foul then it is given to the other team - like a foul throw.

It didn't waste time, if you have to retake kick-off the clock effectively hasn't started until the kick off is taken again.

221000
05-02-2017, 12:54 PM
It didn't waste time, if you have to retake kick-off the clock effectively hasn't started until the kick off is taken again.

Like most things on the board .... it's a bit of both. Hibs need to be better than we were today and break down teams like this and get 2 or 3 goals up then none of us care too much about what Ayr, or any other club for that matter, do. The referee has a responsibility to stamp down on blatantly obvious time wasting too though. He needed to book someone early doors for it then it MAY be stamped out at least to a degree. There was an instance in the second half when the ref went over to one of their full backs taking (an age) a throw, he ran over and had a CHAT with him. By god that'll stop him doing it huh?! Then at the end he played 5 mins total ET, that included the 90 seconds or so their player was down injured after Five's tackle. I thought there would be at least 5 or 6 mins injury time but in reality we actually only PLAYED 3 and a half.

NAE NOOKIE
05-02-2017, 01:03 PM
I sympathise with the OP here ............. Watching games where the opposition come and play like Ayr did yesterday is brutal and as he said isn't going to attract many neutrals ..... Falkirk who are considerably better than Ayr play exactly the same way at ER.

Personally I wouldn't go too over the top about it though ..... how many times have Hibs gone to Parkhead or Ibrox in the past and played exactly the same way? Its not too long ago that if such a performance had got us a draw at either of those venues we would have been cock a hoop about it and wouldn't have given a Rat's ass about how pretty the game was.

It doesn't make Scottish football 'dire' either ....... every weekend you can watch clubs with massive budgets go to Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, The Emirates etc and play exactly like Ayr did against us and that's the so called most competitive league in the world. Watch the Bundesliga highlights show ....... whenever Bayern Munich come on the 'highlights' consist of Bayern peppering the opposition goal with shot after shot, with if you are lucky a 10 second clip of the opposition teams one attempt on goal.

What being in this league gives you is a wee taste of what 'fans' of Celtic, Man Utd, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona and a good few others have to watch every week of every season ....... they are used to it and console themselves with the fact that decades of having to face these tactics means their clubs are well equipped to deal with them and almost always win in the end. That's not always going to be the case for us and it is incredibly frustrating no doubt about it.

If we want to see end to end games with open play we have to get out of this division ..... that's why even though it would be absolutely magic to see us beat the Yams on Sunday it is not the most important or pressing matter facing Hibernian FC this season.

Phil MaGlass
05-02-2017, 01:07 PM
I sympathise with the OP here ............. Watching games where the opposition come and play like Ayr did yesterday is brutal and as he said isn't going to attract many neutrals ..... Falkirk who are considerably better than Ayr play exactly the same way at ER.

Personally I wouldn't go too over the top about it though ..... how many times have Hibs gone to Parkhead or Ibrox in the past and played exactly the same way? Its not too long ago that if such a performance had got us a draw at either of those venues we would have been cock a hoop about it and wouldn't have given a Rat's ass about how pretty the game was.

It doesn't make Scottish football 'dire' either ....... every weekend you can watch clubs with massive budgets go to Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, The Emirates etc and play exactly like Ayr did against us and that's the so called most competitive league in the world. Watch the Bundesliga highlights show ....... whenever Bayern Munich come on the 'highlights' consist of Bayern peppering the opposition goal with shot after shot, with if you are lucky a 10 second clip of the opposition teams one attempt on goal.

What being in this league gives you is a wee taste of what 'fans' of Celtic, Man Utd, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona and a good few others have to watch every week of every season ....... they are used to it and console themselves with the fact that decades of having to face these tactics means their clubs are well equipped to deal with them and almost always win in the end. That's not always going to be the case for us and it is incredibly frustrating no doubt about it.

If we want to see end to end games with open play we have to get out of this division ..... that's why even though it would be absolutely magic to see us beat the Yams on Sunday it is not the most important or pressing matter facing Hibernian FC this season.

3 bloody years and we still cant cope with it or found a way round it?

hibee62
05-02-2017, 01:10 PM
I have no issue with teams playing 10/11 men behind the ball. We've done it ourselves many times as has every team if the situation calls for it.

The issue I have is the time wasting, and I don't mean taking your time to get the ball or playing into the corners. Yesterday the left back, time and again, would walk as slow as possible 50/100 yards to take a throw in and the referee spoke to him once but didn't book him. If he gets booked first/second time he doesn't do it again. The keeper also at one point put the ball down to take a goal kick then changed his mind and went to the other side. It happens all the time and it does my head in.

NAE NOOKIE
05-02-2017, 02:27 PM
3 bloody years and we still cant cope with it or found a way round it?

Well, actually mostly we can .... just not all the time. Who I feel sorry for are our defence, in games like yesterday one slip loses us points and it shouldn't be like that.

madhatter
05-02-2017, 04:56 PM
I have no issue with teams playing 10/11 men behind the ball. We've done it ourselves many times as has every team if the situation calls for it.

The issue I have is the time wasting, and I don't mean taking your time to get the ball or playing into the corners. Yesterday the left back, time and again, would walk as slow as possible 50/100 yards to take a throw in and the referee spoke to him once but didn't book him. If he gets booked first/second time he doesn't do it again. The keeper also at one point put the ball down to take a goal kick then changed his mind and went to the other side. It happens all the time and it does my head in.

I never said defending deep was a problem but defending deep and just booting the ball (not countering) for virtually 70mins is boring as hell. Repeatedly fouling - no11 jumping into McGregor every time not looking at the ball, no16 kicking everything before being subbed, Harkins sliding through Stevenson from behind and getting a booking whilst Shinnie gets booked for the softest of shirt tugs...

Ref clearly didn't know difference between going over the top and backing in as well. Harkins trotted backward for 10 yards whilst looking at the ball and McGregor jumps for the ball as Harkins backs into him - Ayr free kick, utter tripe.

Then as you say like most weeks unless we score early, the timewasting antics are embarrassing- we used to have Oxley that did it but he got booked on the odd occasion, when was the last time and how frequent to players get booked for clearly timewasting?

Guy lies injured on the floor before getting helped off the wrong way - ref a complete idiot again...takes about 2mins to deal with that whole debacle. He even started calling for a stretcher rather than going, hang on guys, why not walk 5 yards that way so I can get the game going again. Did he add any more time, nah...pretty sure I remember Rangers getting 8+ mins extra time in one match for nothing out of the ordinary.

Hibs need to perform better but all clubs and referees have a duty to make sure a game is as fair as possible and the paying punter doesn't have to watch 20mins of acting "where art thou ball" at every throw etc. Referee probably whistled thinking "fans probably want to get home, it's getting cold so I'll whistle now".

Smartie
05-02-2017, 05:20 PM
All part of the game and it's up to us to find a way of overcoming it.

Inviting teams to take the lead within 5 minutes isn't the way to go about it.

We score first, they have to come out a bit , it's a different game.

Ask yourself this - we find ourselves 1-0 up with 20 minutes to go at either Ibrox or Parkhead next season and our manager decides to go gung ho and attack them playing total football? Are you happy? Or would you rather we shut up shop and wasted every minute possible?

I know what I think.