Official Site: DERBY TICKETS | A THANK YOU TO SUPPORTERS

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More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/7238)

[hibee-boys]

Fair enough....loyalty points were an administrative pain in the behind for the club. Why run a system that is really only going to be utilised in a handful of games a year, if that!

[erin go bragh]

Fair enough....loyalty points were an administrative pain in the behind for the club. Why run a system that is really only going to be utilised in a handful of games a year, if that!

Because it rewards fans who support the team home and away ( when they can ) we have 5 season tickets between us but missed out on any Derby tickets as couldn't get through on the phone line or online .

[madhatter]

Lets take the positive out of this - we have more fans dying to see the derby than the Away stand can cater for. The sooner we get out of the league and start building constructively for the future the better but tickets being sold out and people missing out unfortunately is a good thing!

I personally missed out but I take pride knowing I have a number of fans representatives doing me and the club proud :aok:

Fans can't really complain too much tbh - people were queuing over night and the interest was through the roof - Hibs couldn't make more tickets available and if any of you have bought concert tickets you encounter the exact same problems online etc.

Loyalty points schemes are, as Leeann has said, flawed in their own way. Demand outstripped numbers available and unfortunately some people will just miss out. Also, it is just my opinion that nobody necessarily deserves preferential treatment regardless of how many home or away games they make. I, for one, can only make the home games generally but could have made the derby but don't care if my "space" has been taken by a loyal travelling fan (going to all away games) or someone flying in from Australia to catch the game - it is life and if they are a Hibs fan then what's the problem?

We'll have many more memorable games against them I can assure you! Try to catch it on TV this time around and next time luck may be on your side!

[Hermit Crab]

Maybe Hibs should have looked at a ballot instead. Seems as though the LP will not be brought back.

[madhatter]

Because it rewards fans who support the team home and away ( when they can ) we have 5 season tickets between us but missed out on any Derby tickets as couldn't get through on the phone line or online .

I see where you are coming from and I agree to an extent but are you saying you should get preferential treatment because you, for example, attend more games than me? I understand the sentiment but I'd thought travelling to the away games or watching Hibs at home is the reward in itself? I'm not looking to have a better match day experience than the randoms that pay at the gate because I'm a season ticket holder - I know it isn't fully comparable but the casual supporter shouldn't necessarily be discriminated against. They are the lifeblood of the club as well but need to be coerced into coming to more games. That is a dilemma itself, we do loyalty points system and casual supporter can't get derby tickets so might be discouraged to attend more games; a casual supporter that gets to go to Tynie and see us win might become a season ticket holder or a regular. Hope there is some sense there.

[WS Hibs]

are you saying you should get preferential treatment because you, for example, attend more games than me?

If he isn't then I am :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

Lets take the positive out of this - we have more fans dying to see the derby than the Away stand can cater for. The sooner we get out of the league and start building constructively for the future the better but tickets being sold out and people missing out unfortunately is a good thing!

I personally missed out but I take pride knowing I have a number of fans representatives doing me and the club proud :aok:

Fans can't really complain too much tbh - people were queuing over night and the interest was through the roof - Hibs couldn't make more tickets available and if any of you have bought concert tickets you encounter the exact same problems online etc.

Loyalty points schemes are, as Leeann has said, flawed in their own way. Demand outstripped numbers available and unfortunately some people will just miss out. Also, it is just my opinion that nobody necessarily deserves preferential treatment regardless of how many home or away games they make. I, for one, can only make the home games generally but could have made the derby but don't care if my "space" has been taken by a loyal travelling fan (going to all away games) or someone flying in from Australia to catch the game - it is life and if they are a Hibs fan then what's the problem?

We'll have many more memorable games against them I can assure you! Try to catch it on TV this time around and next time luck may be on your side!

Nonsense

[Hibeesforever]

Looks like the online purchases Trumped telephone and therefore few, if any, tickets were sold over the phone. Phone operators probably had to log into the same system. Therefore, likely, not an even split between phone and online.
I have accepted being behind the goals instead, confident Hibs will win.

[madhatter]

Nonsense

Not nonsense. Regardless of how you feel - try to put it into more words than just a "Nonsense" reply. I have my views and regardless what you think of them I can assure you, you have no right to just call them "Nonsense" without constructive reasoning. Or are we getting to the point where people want preferential treatment on their views as well? Give me justification for why you disagree? I agree the club need healthy debate on this one but the key words being "healthy" and "debate". Sorry but just putting "Nonsense" as a reply is lacking a wee bit of respect.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Not nonsense. Regardless of how you feel - try to put it into more words than just a "Nonsense" reply. I have my views and regardless what you think of them I can assure you, you have no right to just call them "Nonsense" without constructive reasoning. Or are we getting to the point where people want preferential treatment on their views as well? Give me justification for why you disagree? I agree the club need healthy debate on this one but the key words being "healthy" and "debate". Sorry but just putting "Nonsense" as a reply is lacking a wee bit of respect.

In your view someone who goes to every game, shouldn't be given a preference? That is simply unfair, if they miss out, to a person going to first away game

[ShinyFantastic]

“On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed."

Absolutely disgraceful statement to make. There would indeed have been a difference in who got the tickets. A difference that would have meant those that go to every single game would have been the ones with the tickets. "Thousands of supporters would still have been disappointed!" Tough. They would have no right to have been disappointed. Part-timers.

The club really needs to wake up and toughen up. Get the loyalty points back!!!

[kaimendhibs]

Bring the points back. Loyalty should be rewarded.

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[col02]

An own goal from Dempster imho. She helped implement a loyalty points scheme and then rather than tweak it completely removed it when a working group or group of fans complained it was unfair. You want to try being a member of the SSC whereby it is very hard to get on the points threshold. At Hibs there is plenty opportunity to accumulate points at less desirable away fixtures.

[madhatter]

In your view someone who goes to every game, shouldn't be given a preference? That is simply unfair, if they miss out, to a person going to first away game

No not exactly but a loyalty system means that by all accounts only our main loyal travelling support will ever get to go to a derby (on large with some ST holders being lucky to get the remaining)? We have a larger supporter base than our home attendance sometimes gives us credit for and the point I was trying to make is if we do a loyalty system then, like this time around, someone will also miss out.

Putting it into a similar context, does someone who has went to every Biffy Clyro concert get put 1st on the list for their up-and-coming concert? I know football is different but if you apply same systems to very similar industries (a game of football is really watching players perform; a concert is watching musicians perform).


Loyalty points for a ST for instance, do we start tracking how many home games they've actually managed to attend and give them more points? Or is it just a flat rate for having a ST even though you might not have used it this season so far barring the game against Utd?
I don't know the ideal system, life is complicated and unfortunately very rarely fair. I'd be happy for some system to be introduced but I think loyalty systems are flawed in their own way (as per my original statement). Not sure if my optimism in a poor situation had to be stamped out through the "Nonsense" comment but whatever, happy days eh?

[Baldy Foghorn]

An own goal from Dempster imho. She helped implement a loyalty points scheme and then rather than tweak it completely removed it when a working group or group of fans complained it was unfair. You want to try being a member of the SSC whereby it is very hard to get on the points threshold. At Hibs there is plenty opportunity to accumulate points at less desirable away fixtures.

Working group advised her to tweak it, LD decided against the wishes of working group to scrap system

[Baldy Foghorn]

No not exactly but a loyalty system means that by all accounts only our main loyal travelling support will ever get to go to a derby (on large with some ST holders being lucky to get the remaining)? We have a larger supporter base than our home attendance sometimes gives us credit for and the point I was trying to make is if we do a loyalty system then, like this time around, someone will also miss out.

Putting it into a similar context, does someone who has went to every Biffy Clyro concert get put 1st on the list for their up-and-coming concert? I know football is different but if you apply same systems to very similar industries (a game of football is really watching players perform; a concert is watching musicians perform).


Loyalty points for a ST for instance, do we start tracking how many home games they've actually managed to attend and give them more points? Or is it just a flat rate for having a ST even though you might not have used it this season so far barring the game against Utd?
I don't know the ideal system, life is complicated and unfortunately very rarely fair. I'd be happy for some system to be introduced but I think loyalty systems are flawed in their own way (as per my original statement). Not sure if my optimism in a poor situation had to be stamped out through the "Nonsense" comment but whatever, happy days eh?

Loyalty systems are not flawed, you go to games, get points, the higher the points, the better your chances

[guthrie01]

In your view someone who goes to every game, shouldn't be given a preference? That is simply unfair, if they miss out, to a person going to first away game

Fans who go to every game do have preference, the away season ticket which secures you a ticket for every away game. If you choose to not buy one then your lumped in with the rest of the regular season ticket holders who have a preference over non season ticket holders.

Like Leeann has stated, not every fan who wants one will get one unfortunately, so accept it and move on. Stop kicking your heels because you never choose to get a away season ticket to secure one.

[Sir David Gray]

The loyalty points system should be brought back but it should be implemented differently to last season.

It's unfair that people can attend every single match home and away but miss the biggest match of the season because someone who, despite having a season ticket, is going to their first away game of the season.

It's something the club needs to look at.

[madhatter]

Absolutely disgraceful statement to make. There would indeed have been a difference in who got the tickets. A difference that would have meant those that go to every single game would have been the ones with the tickets. "Thousands of supporters would still have been disappointed!" Tough. They would have no right to have been disappointed. Part-timers.

The club really needs to wake up and toughen up. Get the loyalty points back!!!

Sorry but that is slightly extreme. I feel I have every right to be disappointed not being able to go having been at every Home game. Do I feel people who go to Away games deserve recognition, yes of course, loyalty rewarded, yes of course but loyalty points can often be mince and hate to say that the number of games you go to doesn't define the standard of fan you are. I've been a massive Hibs fan my entire life but can't justify going to most away games, the feeling I get is, in some people's eyes that me not attending Away games somehow makes me inferior to them - "Tough. Part-timers" being examples of comments in that regard.

May I remind you that we are selling out most away stands (sheds) in this division or at least in high numbers so even if people weren't "Part-timers" how can everyone attend Away games?

Loyalty points help you go to big Away matches which in turn gives you more loyalty points, away grounds in our current league can't cater for huge travelling numbers...see the problem? Next season is a different story but I still think loyalty points unless implemented with great care just don't work well - people buy ST but don't attend every game just so they have loyalty points etc.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Fans who go to every game do have preference, the away season ticket which secures you a ticket for every away game. If you choose to not buy one then your lumped in with the rest of the regular season ticket holders who have a preference over non season ticket holders.

Like Leeann has stated, not every fan who wants one will get one unfortunately, so accept it and move on. Stop kicking your heels because you never choose to get a away season ticket to secure one.

I ain't kicking my heels, all for a fair system.

[madhatter]

Loyalty systems are not flawed, you go to games, get points, the higher the points, the better your chances

So we monitor ST holders entering ER then? Or should I say monitor whether their card has been scanned by a mate to ensure the loyalty pointer ticks over? Likewise, should we ask other clubs to help us cross refer who has attended the game against who Hibs have as the purchaser?

Should a fan who has allowed a friend to borrow their ST get the same loyalty points as me after I've been physically at every home match?

Loyalty systems are flawed, you go to games (or just buy ticket and don't go), get points (regardless of actual attendance unless club go to extra lengths), better your chances (happy days for those that top up their loyalty points for the big matches by abusing the system - not attending but buying ticket, getting a mate to scan their ticket at ER to mimic attendance etc.)

No system is without it's flaws, sorry.

[Baldy Foghorn]

So we monitor ST holders entering ER then? Or should I say monitor whether their card has been scanned by a mate to ensure the loyalty pointer ticks over? Likewise, should we ask other clubs to help us cross refer who has attended the game against who Hibs have as the purchaser?

Should a fan who has allowed a friend to borrow their ST get the same loyalty points as me after I've been physically at every home match?

Loyalty systems are flawed, you go to games (or just buy ticket and don't go), get points (regardless of actual attendance unless club go to extra lengths), better your chances (happy days for those that top up their loyalty points for the big matches by abusing the system - not attending but buying ticket, getting a mate to scan their ticket at ER to mimic attendance etc.)

No system is without it's flaws, sorry.

You have your opinion, I have mine, we will never agree

[SteveHFC]

Maybe Hibs should have looked at a ballot instead. Seems as though the LP will not be brought back.


Sure Man Utd have a ballot for every away game.

[madhatter]

You have your opinion, I have mine, we will never agree

Clearly not, starting of with an outcry of "Nonsense" is never a good start.

As I have said, the club need something but loyalty system needs a hell of a lot of work beyond what people perceive as 10 points for away, 5 points for home etc. Things in life can be made to appear simple if we just think about ourselves - "I've been at all away games so I should be guaranteed preferential treatment". That's fine to think that but what happens to people who jump on the Away day bandwagon late (might have commitments outside of football such as a recent child birth or something more important than football) and the team are on a great run. "I'm sorry you can't attend this away day as the stand only holds 2,500 fans and they are sold out"..."oh ok, I'll try next time"..."I'm sorry all tickets are sold out"..."I'm sorry tickets are all sold out"...then the derby comes around..."Fans with 800+ loyalty points will be in wave 1" (only away travelling fans have this number)..."I'm sorry sold out". Loyalty systems can work but black and white they are not. Infallible they are not.

[WS Hibs]

Sorry but that is slightly extreme. I feel I have every right to be disappointed not being able to go having been at every Home game. Do I feel people who go to Away games deserve recognition, yes of course, loyalty rewarded, yes of course but loyalty points can often be mince and hate to say that the number of games you go to doesn't define the standard of fan you are. I've been a massive Hibs fan my entire life but can't justify going to most away games, the feeling I get is, in some people's eyes that me not attending Away games somehow makes me inferior to them - "Tough. Part-timers" being examples of comments in that regard.

Fair enough if you can't justify going to away games, I don't want you to feel inferior as a Hibs fan for that. But why would you expect to have equal priority with people who do? It's an away game, they go to all or almost all, they should be prioritised.

[Swedish hibee]

I was talking to a Rangers fan who has a ST and he was saying tickets go to a ballot for the derby. Maybe that is the way to go for Hibs.. as no matter what Hibs do- someone will be upset.

[madhatter]

Fair enough if you can't justify going to away games, I don't want you to feel inferior for that. But why would you expect to have equal priority with people who do? It's an away game, they go to all or almost all, they should be prioritised.

Can they all be prioritised? Can they all be guaranteed the reward they all seem to want? Can the club guarantee that? No, not necessarily so as Leeann has put, people will always miss out. Lets look at the "almost all", lets say we have 4000 fans that went to "almost all" away games and we have an occurrence where 2000 of the fans are on the same points (600), but unfortunately we only have 1500 left as the away stand has a capacity that Hibs can't change. What happens? Where is the line drawn? I'm trying to think openly about fairness but I can't help but think people are drawing the line with themselves. Loyalty systems have flaws, one being that regardless on how and why you implement it people may, and frequently will, still miss out on that reward. Going back to the example, if everyone is on 600 to make sure there is no actionable disappointment does Inverness have more clout so does my 600 points actually become 602 because the distance is further than another blokes away day in Fife?

To answer your question, I don't feel I have a priority, I'm a fan supporting the club I love. I'm not better or worse than anyone else.

Does there need to be a better system? Yes.
Do I know what that is? No.
Should it satisfy the majority of Hibs fans? Yes.

[Iggy Pope]

Can they all be prioritised? Can they all be guaranteed the reward they all seem to want? Can the club guarantee that? No, not necessarily so as Leeann has put, people will always miss out. Lets look at the "almost all", lets say we have 4000 fans that went to "almost all" away games and we have an occurrence where 2000 of the fans are on the same points (600), but unfortunately we only have 1500 left as the away stand has a capacity that Hibs can't change. What happens? Where is the line drawn? I'm trying to think openly about fairness but I can't help but think people are drawing the line with themselves. Loyalty systems have flaws, one being that regardless on how and why you implement it people may, and frequently will, still miss out on that reward. Going back to the example, if everyone is on 600 to make sure there is no actionable disappointment does Inverness have more clout so does my 600 points actually become 602 because the distance is further than another blokes away day in Fife?

To answer your question, I don't feel I have a priority, I'm a fan supporting the club I love. I'm not better or worse than anyone else.

Does there need to be a better system? Yes.
Do I know what that is? No.
Should it satisfy the majority of Hibs fans? Yes.

Fans who attrend away games can be prioritised, absolutely.

We don't normally take close to 3000 any away game so nothing NOTHING prevented those who attend away games being prioritised in the case of the forthcoming derby. Just like they were all prioritised the last time we went there. Prioritised with success I'll add and without the car crash we have now.

Leeann is getting away scot-free here, in my opinion. And if indeed she took the decision to scrap the 'Loyalty' system then she should be getting called out for it. It needed refining and at best a new name. Not scrapping because it took a bit of work to administrate.

I see a ballot is being discussed on here - something I referred to on my HSL related thread. The online system offered yesterday is miles short of a ballot. It is a lottery. And it's time it was recognised as such.

[Brightside]

Fans who attrend away games can be prioritised, absolutely.

We don't normally take close to 3000 any away game so nothing NOTHING prevented those who attend away games being prioritised in the case of the forthcoming derby. Just like they were all prioritised the last time we went there. Prioritised with success I'll add and without the car crash we have now.

Leeann is getting away scot-free here, in my opinion. And if indeed she took the decision to scrap the 'Loyalty' system then she should be getting called out for it. It needed refining and at best a new name. Not scrapping because it took a bit of work to administrate.

I see a ballot is being discussed on here - something I referred to on my HSL related thread. The online system offered yesterday is miles short of a ballot. It is a lottery. And it's time it was recognised as such.

I assume the call you had with her wasnt what you hoped to hear from her? Can you elaborate? You mentioned you couldnt wait for HSL to get onto the board?

[Big_Franck]

The loyalty points system should be brought back but it should be implemented differently to last season.

It's unfair that people can attend every single match home and away but miss the biggest match of the season because someone who, despite having a season ticket, is going to their first away game of the season.

It's something the club needs to look at.

I don't go to that many away games so I wouldn't have benefitted from there being a loyalty points system in place for this game, but I totally agree.

Like someone above said, this is the bit that concerns me from the statement:

“On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed."

So if you go to nearly every away game and someone going to their first away game of the season got a ticket ahead of you, she doesn't care. She obviously thinks thats alright. It's not.

And I presume it was her decision to hold back tickets from the general sale to sell as 'hospitality' seats at 75 quid a pop. That's no way to treat fans that have backed the club in huge numbers since you took over, Leeann.

[Hermit Crab]

I don't go to that many away games so I wouldn't have benefitted from there being a loyalty points system in place for this game, but I totally agree.

Like someone above said, this is the bit that concerns me from the statement:

“On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed."
So if you go to nearly every away game and someone going to their first away game of the season got a ticket ahead of you, she doesn't care. She obviously thinks thats alright. It's not.

And I presume it was her decision to hold back tickets from the general sale to sell as 'hospitality' seats at 75 quid a pop. That's no way to treat fans that have backed the club in huge numbers since you took over, Leeann.


Fair enough, if we did that we wouldn't have the current situation which is people getting tickets that have not bothered their arse to do any away games this season but all of a sudden want to go because its against Hearts? That is wrong imo and regular away fans should be prioritised, not some johnny come latelys that usually do ikea with the wife on Saturdays when Hibs are away from home.

[Big_Franck]

Fair enough, if we did that we wouldn't have the current situation which is people getting tickets that have not bothered their arse to do any away games this season but all of a sudden want to go because its against Hearts? That is wrong imo and regular away fans should be prioritised, not some johnny come latelys that usually do ikea with the wife on Saturdays when Hibs are away from home.

I agree. It would appear from her statement that Leeann doesn't see the scenario you describe as being a problem though.

[bigwheel]

I don't go to that many away games so I wouldn't have benefitted from there being a loyalty points system in place for this game, but I totally agree.

Like someone above said, this is the bit that concerns me from the statement:

“On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed."

So if you go to nearly every away game and someone going to their first away game of the season got a ticket ahead of you, she doesn't care. She obviously thinks thats alright. It's not.

And I presume it was her decision to hold back tickets from the general sale to sell as 'hospitality' seats at 75 quid a pop. That's no way to treat fans that have backed the club in huge numbers since you took over, Leeann.

I agree with these points ...LD has had much praise on these boards...but should listen hard when she makes wrong calls..

Getting rid of the loyalty points , just because some elements need fixed , was wrong

The Hearts ticket allocation process - and potentially a massive issue with phone booking system that's cost fans a lot of money - needs Recognised and assessed

And this money grab of a few thousand pounds on hospitality tickets when , as she says, many thousands were going to be disappointed ...is not a decision that is appreciative of the fans who have backed the club over the last three years ..

Let's hope there is recognition of this, and a better solution is put in place for next season

[Hermit Crab]

I agree. It would appear from her statement that Leeann doesn't see the scenario you describe as being a problem though.


Which in her position as CEO its ridiculous. Fans are the life of the club.

[madhatter]

I don't go to that many away games so I wouldn't have benefitted from there being a loyalty points system in place for this game, but I totally agree.

Like someone above said, this is the bit that concerns me from the statement:

“On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed."

So if you go to nearly every away game and someone going to their first away game of the season got a ticket ahead of you, she doesn't care. She obviously thinks thats alright. It's not.

And I presume it was her decision to hold back tickets from the general sale to sell as 'hospitality' seats at 75 quid a pop. That's no way to treat fans that have backed the club in huge numbers since you took over, Leeann.

"She obviously thinks thats alright" - Putting words into her mouth? She was simply saying unfortunately people would still be disappointed if loyalty points were implemented. Club have to retain a modicum of face even if you'd like them to openly put on their website "we've ****ed up!" Clearly something needs reviewed but she can hardly just say "it was a complete disaster".

"And I presume it was her decision to hold back tickets from the general sale to sell as 'hospitality' seats at 75 quid a pop.", presuming is OK but how quick is Leeann going from hero to zero in some people's eyes? Also, clearly other clubs don't do similar with 'hospitality'?

Leeann has played a pivotal part in the club's upturn in many aspects. Our fickleness as football fans shouldn't come into the how the club is being run. From a club perspective it is like trying to deal with a person with Multiply Personality Disorder. We all want different things and we apply the same highs and lows of football to the non-footballing aspects of the club...We need to be a bit more reasonable, things need changed, that's fine. Accusations, guilty before proven, and general finger pointing is not getting anyone anywhere.

[JJP]

Fair enough, if we did that we wouldn't have the current situation which is people getting tickets that have not bothered their arse to do any away games this season but all of a sudden want to go because its against Hearts? That is wrong imo and regular away fans should be prioritised, not some johnny come latelys that usually do ikea with the wife on Saturdays when Hibs are away from home.

The tickets were sold to season ticket holders. Not johnny come latelys.

[Hermit Crab]

"She obviously thinks thats alright" - Putting words into her mouth? She was simply saying unfortunately people would still be disappointed if loyalty points were implemented. Club have to retain a modicum of face even if you'd like them to openly put on their website "we've ****ed up!" Clearly something needs reviewed but she can hardly just say "it was a complete disaster".

"And I presume it was her decision to hold back tickets from the general sale to sell as 'hospitality' seats at 75 quid a pop.", presuming is OK but how quick is Leeann going from hero to zero in some people's eyes? Also, clearly other clubs don't do similar with 'hospitality'?

Leeann has played a pivotal part in the club's upturn in many aspects. Our fickleness as football fans shouldn't come into the how the club is being run. From a club perspective it is like trying to deal with a person with Multiply Personality Disorder. We all want different things and we apply the same highs and lows of football to the non-footballing aspects of the club...We need to be a bit more reasonable, things need changed, that's fine. Accusations, guilty before proven, and general finger pointing is not getting anyone anywhere.

I'm not solely blaming her for yesterdays circus but she asked for feedback about points system last season and was given recommendations about tweaking it and decided to ignore that advice and scrap it completely. That decision has led up to hat happened yesterday.

[Hermit Crab]

The tickets were sold to season ticket holders. Not johnny come latelys.


Yes thats right however folk tuning up with 10 references for 10 tickets and not all tickets were going to the reference holders. I know at least half a dozen folk who got their hands on tickets who are not season ticket holders and have not been to an away game all season.

By the way there will be a lot of away game virgins in the crowd next week.

[WhileTheChief..]

How many regular away fans do we have? Probably hundreds as against thousands I'd imagine.

They could pick the stadium furthest from ER on a cold Wednesday evening and everyone that goes gets a super-duper token guaranteeing them a ticket for every away game the following season.

Repeat year after year.

Sorted :greengrin

[marinello59]

Fair enough, if we did that we wouldn't have the current situation which is people getting tickets that have not bothered their arse to do any away games this season but all of a sudden want to go because its against Hearts? That is wrong imo and regular away fans should be prioritised, not some johnny come latelys that usually do ikea with the wife on Saturdays when Hibs are away from home.

There is decent debate on this issue and there is the constant stirring and name calling of other supporters that you have been indulging in across various threads. Johnny Come latelys who usually do Ikea with the wife? No need to sneer at your fellow season ticket holders like that, you know, the guys who give the club a large lump sum every year, the money that actually puts the team on the park.
I will admit you are a much better fan than me. Like you I put a fair few miles in to follow Hibs but unlike your selfless devotion to the cause my motivation is purely selfish. I love going to the fitba, in fact I love the whole day out and in recent years I have been in the privileged position of being able to attend a fair few games. I don't need rewarded for it, I'm bloody lucky to be able to go when I want. If I miss out on a game now and again because I can't get a ticket so what? There may be a case for a loyalty scheme just as there is a case for protecting the value of a season ticket but there certainly isn't any reason to be looking down on other equally as passionate Hibs. fans.

[21.5.16]

Loyalty points was fair. It wasnt about thousands dissapointed. Ive missed only 1 game this season and i didnt get a ticket. Someone whos hardly missed a game all their life didnt get a ticket. Loyalty points were brilliant as those who actually went to the majority if not all of the games and were "loyal" got first grabs. It was a completley fair system. I myself might not have had enough loyalty points but atleast id have known someone who rarely misses a game got a ticket before me instead of someone who has a half season ticket and only started going at christmas.

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[madhatter]

I'm not solely blaming her for yesterdays circus but she asked for feedback about points system last season and was given recommendations about tweaking it and decided to ignore that advice and scrap it completely. That decision has led up to hat happened yesterday.

First point - do you know for a fact she decided to ignore the advice from all fans groups? I'm not, I know she'll have been involved in the decision but I don't see a big red button on Leeann's desk that she just pressed. We may not have been involved in the discussions but I'm pretty sure "let's consult and then bin the response" was what Leeann said and did.

Second point - do you or have you made any mistakes at work? Leeann is a human like the rest of us.

Out of all of these discussions and the aftermath of the ticketing, the thing I'm taking from it is not primarily "we need loyalty points" but more that fans need to be more united, the HSL debacle and the posters put up around town showed that there is a divisive nature to portions of our support. We may not agree on everything but I hope we all want Hibs to be successful. I feel the club are in a lose-lose scenario until we have a degree of middle ground on some matters. I'm open minded but want to avoid a bad system replacing a bad system...

We can't keep doing...loyalty system on, loyalty system off, loyalty system on, loyalty system off...
We can't also immediately look to the nearest person to point fingers at - it was Petrie (justifiably) and now after this fiasco it's Leeann

[Hermit Crab]

There is decent debate on this issue and there is the constant stirring and name calling of other supporters that you have been indulging in across various threads. Johnny Come latelys who usually do Ikea with the wife? No need to sneer at your fellow season ticket holders like that, you know, the guys who give the club a large lump sum every year, the money that actually puts the team on the park.
I will admit you are a much better fan than me. Like you I put a fair few miles in to follow Hibs but unlike your selfless devotion to the cause my motivation is purely selfish. I love going to the fitba, in fact I love the whole day out and in recent years I have been in the privileged position of being able to attend a fair few games. I don't need rewarded for it, I'm bloody lucky to be able to go when I want. If I miss out on a game now and again because I can't get a ticket so what? There may be a case for a loyalty scheme just as there is a case for protecting the value of a season ticket but there certainly isn't any reason to be looking down on other equally as passionate Hibs. fans.


Thats not how I intended it to look, I'm bot looking down on anyone, I just feel that the regular away fans have been majorly let down on this occasion.

As for the bit in bold, perhaps a tad harsh and I'll withdraw that comment, but at least you see my point.

[Sir David Gray]

Yes thats right however folk tuning up with 10 references for 10 tickets and not all tickets were going to the reference holders. I know at least half a dozen folk who got their hands on tickets who are not season ticket holders and have not been to an away game all season.

By the way there will be a lot of away game virgins in the crowd next week.

Although I think the loyalty system is better than the current system and should come back, the problem you mention could still have happened under the loyalty system.

People with insufficient points could still have got the reference number from someone with enough points, if they weren't going to this game for whatever reason.

[Hermit Crab]

Although I think the loyalty system is better than the current system and should come back, the problem you mention could still have happened under the loyalty system.

People with insufficient points could still have got the reference number from someone with enough points, if they weren't going to this game for whatever reason.


Thats called points harvesting.

Another thing that should stop is the ability to buy adult tickets with the reference number form a child or youth season ticket. How many benefitted from that yesterday as folk won't take their kids to tynecastle but use the reference(s) to get another adult ticket(s).

[madhatter]

Loyalty points was fair. It wasnt about thousands dissapointed. Ive missed only 1 game this season and i didnt get a ticket. Someone whos hardly missed a game all their life didnt get a ticket. Loyalty points were brilliant as those who actually went to the majority if not all of the games and were "loyal" got first grabs. It was a completley fair system. I myself might not have had enough loyalty points but atleast id have known someone who rarely misses a game got a ticket before me instead of someone who has a half season ticket and only started going at christmas.

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Thousands would still be disappointed via the loyalty points system. I'm ST holder and go to all home games, does that mean I wouldn't be disappointed among another 8000-9000 ST fans that can't go? The key point you've put is "go to most of the games" - many people lend their ticket to friends or family when they can't make it so straight away the "fair" system is becoming slightly cloudy. Lets also look at any voluntary work someone might do for the club and HSL members, should they be entitled to loyalty points? Shareholders?

"Fair" is very very grey and it's a personal opinion. As I've stated in another post. Football fans are difficult to reason with but for us as a collective to get the "best" system, it requires us to be more reasoned and open-minded. Fans will be disappointed so we need to be a bit less selfish and look for the greater good for us all that is "fair".

[wookie70]

I thought the statement about why the loyalty points was dropped was poor at the time and it doesn't read any better now. The only reason that I could see it was dropped out of those given was the extra administration. That would have settled down in time and with better communication from the club. The length points stayed on was something that needed some discussion too.

If you look at what the loyalty point scheme was meant to achieve and what it did it looks like it was a very successful system.

Leeann is correct in that not everyone would have got a ticket. That will always be the case the debate is who deserves them more. Someone that has travelled the length and breadth of Scotland week after week and sometimes in poor conditions. Or someone who got lucky online or happened to have the time to give up half a day to queue. I am generally very supportive of Leeann and she has been fantastic for the club. However, my view is she is miles off the mark here and now doesn't want to lose face with a u-turn.

[21.5.16]

Thousands would still be disappointed via the loyalty points system. I'm ST holder and go to all home games, does that mean I wouldn't be disappointed among another 8000-9000 ST fans that can't go? The key point you've put is "go to most of the games" - many people lend their ticket to friends or family when they can't make it so straight away the "fair" system is becoming slightly cloudy. Lets also look at any voluntary work someone might do for the club and HSL members, should they be entitled to loyalty points? Shareholders?

"Fair" is very very grey and it's a personal opinion. As I've stated in another post. Football fans are difficult to reason with but for us as a collective to get the "best" system, it requires us to be more reasoned and open-minded. Fans will be disappointed so we need to be a bit less selfish and look for the greater good for us all that is "fair".
It is fair though. Those who attended every away game got awarded points for each game they bought tickets for. The thousands dissapointed would hopefully accept that the people who had more loyalty points because of the face they go to almost every home and away and rightly deserve a ticket. I wouldnt have minded if i lost out due to loyalty points as obviously others have been to more games than me.

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[21.5.16]

It is fair though. Those who attended every away game got awarded points for each game they bought tickets for. The thousands dissapointed would hopefully accept that the people who had more loyalty points because of the face they go to almost every home and away and rightly deserve a ticket. I wouldnt have minded if i lost out due to loyalty points as obviously others have been to more games than me.

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And it was my opinion and never once said you wouldnt be dissapointed. I said I wouldnt be that dissappointed. Everyones entitled to their own opinion.

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[Baldy Foghorn]

First point - do you know for a fact she decided to ignore the advice from all fans groups? I'm not, I know she'll have been involved in the decision but I don't see a big red button on Leeann's desk that she just pressed. We may not have been involved in the discussions but I'm pretty sure "let's consult and then bin the response" was what Leeann said and did.

Second point - do you or have you made any mistakes at work? Leeann is a human like the rest of us.

Out of all of these discussions and the aftermath of the ticketing, the thing I'm taking from it is not primarily "we need loyalty points" but more that fans need to be more united, the HSL debacle and the posters put up around town showed that there is a divisive nature to portions of our support. We may not agree on everything but I hope we all want Hibs to be successful. I feel the club are in a lose-lose scenario until we have a degree of middle ground on some matters. I'm open minded but want to avoid a bad system replacing a bad system...

We can't keep doing...loyalty system on, loyalty system off, loyalty system on, loyalty system off...
We can't also immediately look to the nearest person to point fingers at - it was Petrie (justifiably) and now after this fiasco it's Leeann

Believe it or not, that is the truth.....

[Lago]

Lets take the positive out of this - we have more fans dying to see the derby than the Away stand can cater for. The sooner we get out of the league and start building constructively for the future the better but tickets being sold out and people missing out unfortunately is a good thing!

I personally missed out but I take pride knowing I have a number of fans representatives doing me and the club proud :aok:

Fans can't really complain too much tbh - people were queuing over night and the interest was through the roof - Hibs couldn't make more tickets available and if any of you have bought concert tickets you encounter the exact same problems online etc.

Loyalty points schemes are, as Leeann has said, flawed in their own way. Demand outstripped numbers available and unfortunately some people will just miss out. Also, it is just my opinion that nobody necessarily deserves preferential treatment regardless of how many home or away games they make. I, for one, can only make the home games generally but could have made the derby but don't care if my "space" has been taken by a loyal travelling fan (going to all away games) or someone flying in from Australia to catch the game - it is life and if they are a Hibs fan then what's the problem?

We'll have many more memorable games against them I can assure you! Try to catch it on TV this time around and next time luck may be on your side!

Excellent constructive & well thought threw post.

[Frazerbob]

An own goal from Dempster imho. She helped implement a loyalty points scheme and then rather than tweak it completely removed it when a working group or group of fans complained it was unfair. You want to try being a member of the SSC whereby it is very hard to get on the points threshold. At Hibs there is plenty opportunity to accumulate points at less desirable away fixtures.

It's very easy to get on the SSC points ladder. Only 2 of the last 10 away games didn't go to zero points. I'd imagine there will be plenty opportunities coming up also.

[madhatter]

And it was my opinion and never once said you wouldnt be dissapointed. I said I wouldnt be that dissappointed. Everyones entitled to their own opinion.

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It wasnt about thousands dissapointed.

You said the above though - which I stated as factually inaccurate. Loyalty point systems don't stop thousands being disappointed. Thousands would be disappointed (including me) and as I said most fans are quite selfish and unreasonable so just saying Joe Bloggs has been to 5 more away games than you will not sit well with many. It sits fine with me but I'm reasonable to an extent - I don't have a ticket for the derby but I can live with that, if I turn up at ER and my ST stopped working I'd probably hit the roof though. People are different so its more difficult to keep a support base happy than a simple loyalty point system.

Communication and unity helps keep people happy and I still maintain that over anything else needs to go up a few notches.

[ronaldo7]

Thats called points harvesting.

Another thing that should stop is the ability to buy adult tickets with the reference number form a child or youth season ticket. How many benefitted from that yesterday as folk won't take their kids to tynecastle but use the reference(s) to get another adult ticket(s).

That's a bit of a broad brush you're using there HC.

My Grandson will be at my side at Tiny. I'm sure many other kids will be attending.

The kids are the life blood of the club after all.

[Hermit Crab]

That's a bit of a broad brush you're using there HC.

My Grandson will be at my side at Tiny. I'm sure many other kids will be attending.

The kids are the life blood of the club after all.


C'mon you know what I mean. There are a lot who will not take their kids to Tyne (or claim that they don't) but will use the reference to get another adult ticket for a mate.

[21.5.16]

It wasnt about thousands dissapointed.

You said the above though - which I stated as factually inaccurate. Loyalty point systems don't stop thousands being disappointed. Thousands would be disappointed (including me) and as I said most fans are quite selfish and unreasonable so just saying Joe Bloggs has been to 5 more away games than you will not sit well with many. It sits fine with me but I'm reasonable to an extent - I don't have a ticket for the derby but I can live with that, if I turn up at ER and my ST stopped working I'd probably hit the roof though. People are different so its more difficult to keep a support base happy than a simple loyalty point system.

Communication and unity helps keep people happy and I still maintain that over anything else needs to go up a few notches.
It wasnt about thousands dissapointed though. The reason people were complaining against loyalty points was because the way it was done. If it was done the way (i hate to say it) hearts do it, it would work brilliantly. Its the only fair way *IN MY OPINIOM*

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[Pretty Boy]

Last season I attended all but 2 away games so was guaranteed a ticket for Tyencastle. I thought that was fair.

This season a change in circumstances means I have only attended 3 away games. I was in with the same chance as someone who has attended double or treble that number. I don't think that is particularly fair (whilst admittedly using the system to my advantage).

A system of some description is preferable to the utter shambles that was yesterday even if it is only needed 3 or 4 times a season. Clubs all over the world use loyalty points systems successfully, I really fail to see why it can't work for Hibs.

[madhatter]

It is fair though. Those who attended every away game got awarded points for each game they bought tickets for. The thousands dissapointed would hopefully accept that the people who had more loyalty points because of the face they go to almost every home and away and rightly deserve a ticket. I wouldnt have minded if i lost out due to loyalty points as obviously others have been to more games than me.

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You've put "The thousands dissapointed would hopefully accept". The club can't keep willy-nilly changing systems hoping fans will accept or like the change. We've historically not been great at participating in questionnaires, group meetings etc. and I include myself in that! However, that is what we need, we need a large consensus or meeting on middle-grounds, it shouldn't be lump it or leave it for a set of fans without their input. Personally I think that is wrong, whether they be "part-timers" as the saying goes or the "loyals". Our aim is to further our club by having sporting achievement but also to increase our fan base. We absolutely need to avoid alienating fans of any persuasion - this appears to most fans to have been a mistake but the solution is to give constructive feedback, get better feed back systems in place and use our 2 fan representatives. Can't help but think the club are just getting phone calls from ranting fans and thinking "jeez, I know you support the club but come on please be reasonable...". I can assure you that a well-thought reasoned response from fans groups will get a better response from the club than anything else.

[ronaldo7]

C'mon you know what I mean. There are a lot who will not take their kids to Tyne (or claim that they don't) but will use the reference to get another adult ticket for a mate.

I know what you mean, lots do it, but not everyone. People were also harvesting loyalty points when the system was live, ie buying a ticket but not going to the game. People are also giving their reference numbers to others on this site currently.

We've all done it(or at least, I have). Nothing is right or wrong here, it's just life following the Hibs.

Some you win, some you lose.

[davhibby]

The statement reads to me as if Leeann has no interest in listening to the fans on this matter anyway. Going to be a disaster next season when we only get half the stand for the derby

[Super_JMcGinn]

Fair enough if you can't justify going to away games, I don't want you to feel inferior as a Hibs fan for that. But why would you expect to have equal priority with people who do? It's an away game, they go to all or almost all, they should be prioritised.

When does loyalty start and end ? It wasn't too long ago we failed to sell half the away end at Tynie, where was the clamour for tickets then and all these die hard fans I'm hearing about.

I think the loyalty scheme was a fair system but you're never going to please everyone and that's just life.

I personally would end online sales and make it first come first served at the ticket office like it used to be.

[hibbysam]

I ****ing hate saying look at that mess over the road, but on loyalty points that is exactly what I'd be doing. I'd be straight on the phone to Budge to ask how they work it as I know a lot of their fans, both regular and non regular and they have absolutely no issues with their system.

Now time to wash my mouth, but they have LP's down to a tee.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Last season I attended all but 2 away games so was guaranteed a ticket for Tyencastle. I thought that was fair.

This season a change in circumstances means I have only attended 3 away games. I was in with the same chance as someone who has attended double or treble that number. I don't think that is particularly fair (whilst admittedly using the system to my advantage).

A system of some description is preferable to the utter shambles that was yesterday even if it is only needed 3 or 4 times a season. Clubs all over the world use loyalty points systems successfully, I really fail to see why it can't work for Hibs.

Good post

[madhatter]

It wasnt about thousands dissapointed though. The reason people were complaining against loyalty points was because the way it was done. If it was done the way (i hate to say it) hearts do it, it would work brilliantly. Its the only fair way *IN MY OPINIOM*

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How isn't it thousands disappointed? "Damn, I can't make the away games because I've recently had a child but I'll do everything I can to make the home games" - this person would be disappointed if they were suddenly able to make the derby but loyalty points ruled them out. I never had any quibble with the loyalty points when they were utilised but it seems the very same people that were unhappy with the loyalty points implementation would gladly just jump back to the old system blindly because of the nightmare experienced. That's why I said we need to be reasonable and make sure that any system brought on-board is decided by the fans (and as I said, we need to collectively be more active in voting, making our voices heard, and responding to communications etc.). Whether it is similar to Hearts or otherwise, it needs our contribution - we can't have fan ownership and collectively just think "I turn up every Saturday" but do nothing else even just filling out a quick questionnaire.

[21.5.16]

How isn't it thousands disappointed? "Damn, I can't make the away games because I've recently had a child but I'll do everything I can to make the home games" - this person would be disappointed if they were suddenly able to make the derby but loyalty points ruled them out. I never had any quibble with the loyalty points when they were utilised but it seems the very same people that were unhappy with the loyalty points implementation would gladly just jump back to the old system blindly because of the nightmare experienced. That's why I said we need to be reasonable and make sure that any system brought on-board is decided by the fans (and as I said, we need to collectively be more active in voting, making our voices heard, and responding to communications etc.). Whether it is similar to Hearts or otherwise, it needs our contribution - we can't have fan ownership and collectively just think "I turn up every Saturday" but do nothing else even just filling out a quick questionnaire.
You do make a valid point there. I will give you that

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[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Loyalty systems are not flawed, you go to games, get points, the higher the points, the better your chances

Mr B, I'm still amazed how complicated folk find that to understand.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Mr B, I'm still amazed how complicated folk find that to understand.

Some are deliberately obtuse:greengrin

[jeffers]

Last season I attended all but 2 away games so was guaranteed a ticket for Tyencastle. I thought that was fair.

This season a change in circumstances means I have only attended 3 away games. I was in with the same chance as someone who has attended double or treble that number. I don't think that is particularly fair (whilst admittedly using the system to my advantage).

A system of some description is preferable to the utter shambles that was yesterday even if it is only needed 3 or 4 times a season. Clubs all over the world use loyalty points systems successfully, I really fail to see why it can't work for Hibs.

Not too dissimilar to me.

If someone had attained more points than me then it meant they had attended more games and only fair in my opinion that they had a better chance of getting tickets for games where demand was high. Doesn't make them a better supporter than me it just means they were able to commit to attending more games. I didn't agree with HSL membership granting additional points, but other than that thought the system was fair.

The trouble, again imo, is you have season ticket holders who never or very rarely attend away games feeling they have the same rights as someone who goes away regularly. I have never viewed my purchase of a season ticket as something that entitles me to tickets for away games, but instead I'm helping the club by paying a lump sum up front to help finance the coming season and securing me a seat for home games.

And before someone says I could have bought an away ticket that wasn't a realistic option as my circumstances mean I cannot commit to attending every away game.

[Diclonius]

Would like to see the loyalty points system reintroduced, especially with only half the stand at Tynecastle next season. Would like to have a phasing system where if you make a lot of games you are effectively guaranteed a ticket, rather than making it a mad free for all where a lot of people end up being very angry through no fault of their own. The loyalty points system wasn't perfect but it worked very well for occasions like this.

I've only missed three derbies in ten years - i.e. most of the ones where we were utter dross and on a hiding to nothing, and didn't come close to selling out - and whilst I realise this doesn't give me a god given right to go to every subsequent one, it would be nice to see us actually win a couple now there's a level playing field, having put up with total capitulation for the best part of the last decade.

[madhatter]

Mr B, I'm still amazed how complicated folk find that to understand.

Another divisive comment? Football fans, eh?

I may be a complicated bloke but I find loyalty systems fairly easy to understand - they never please everyone; everyone, nowadays especially, is selfish.

I may be interpreting this all wrong but I've seen loyal away fans stating that Leeann scrapped a system that they themselves weren't happy with (at least how it was implemented). I, as a home fan (mainly), had no issue with it. So, you hopefully see the irony, we both missed out on tickets via a new system we both don't particularly have good feelings about - away fan dislikes free-for-all system greatly due to missing out on tickets they feel are their due right (something that probably wouldn't have happened under old system they didn't fully condone); home fan who is sitting on fence gets divisive comments regarding ability to understand the flawed system the away fans didn't like...

Being fair I may be badly informed but if Leeann vetoed and binned restructuring, do we know if all fans groups and any fans consulted gave her united and meaningful feedback?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Whats divisive about it? Go to more games than other folk, be more entitled to a ticket, have the same chance of a ticket as folk with the same number of pts. If I had 99pts and someone else had 100, they'd be entitled to a ticket before me.

[madhatter]

Some are deliberately obtuse:greengrin

Think that is my cue to leave things be as clearly whether tongue-in-cheek or otherwise, people like to have a rant, give a one-sided view and say "this is gospel" then resort to sly personal digs for what I can honestly just put down to childishness.

Take your black and white loyalty scheme idea to the club, ignore the views of 8000-9000 ST holders that don't attend away games and simply go with what you perceive as "fair" in an unjust world. Lets forget getting people's views on the matter and just slaver down a phone at a poor administration staff member at Hibs and then come on the forum rant some more (Petrie this, Leeann this) and then become condescending when someone presents views in an attempt to present a reasoned "on-the-fence" response - trying to encourage optimism before the game and not have a thread dominated by "****ing disgrace, Leeann should take a look at herself".

I've always seen that as Hibs' problem - communication and wee cliques in the support. Not a points system - this is endpoint of a problem not the beginning, where were the fans uproar and protest at the removal of the points system, where was the communication amongst fans groups and where was the action to get it rectified? No idea personally, but people feel the right now to complain profusely and then snipe down anyone who takes a calmer view of the situation...

I'll be turning up to games and everything but beyond that, that's it for me - want whats best for the club but until someone tells me how we get blinkered fans to discuss things without using playground humour or otherwise then I'm lost. No doubt I'll get some form of derogatory response to this but, like whether a loyalty points system gets implemented or not and whether all fans like it, I'm at the point of not caring - what saddens me is those that have been inflammatory probably take some glee in that.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

If 8-9k ST holders dinnae go to away games, they should be further down the list when away tickets are limited.

[ancient hibee]

I didn't pay any attention at the time but when we had loyalty points I seem to remember endless arguments on here about them.Now it appears they only needed a slight tweak.What were all the arguments about then?

[Danderhall Hibs]

I didn't pay any attention at the time but when we had loyalty points I seem to remember endless arguments on here about them.Now it appears they only needed a slight tweak.What were all the arguments about then?

Cos some folk missed out on tickets.

What is the slight tweak that was needed?

[hibbysam]

I didn't pay any attention at the time but when we had loyalty points I seem to remember endless arguments on here about them.Now it appears they only needed a slight tweak.What were all the arguments about then?

The biggest arguments were the thresholds, only two phases, one very high, and then all season ticket holders, it wasn't staggered, and also adding HSL points on.

[ancient hibee]

Cos some folk missed out on tickets.

What is the slight tweak that was needed?

No idea but it has been mentioned on numerous posts that LD cancelled the scheme when it only needed a tweak.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Think that is my cue to leave things be as clearly whether tongue-in-cheek or otherwise, people like to have a rant, give a one-sided view and say "this is gospel" then resort to sly personal digs for what I can honestly just put down to childishness.

Take your black and white loyalty scheme idea to the club, ignore the views of 8000-9000 ST holders that don't attend away games and simply go with what you perceive as "fair" in an unjust world. Lets forget getting people's views on the matter and just slaver down a phone at a poor administration staff member at Hibs and then come on the forum rant some more (Petrie this, Leeann this) and then become condescending when someone presents views in an attempt to present a reasoned "on-the-fence" response - trying to encourage optimism before the game and not have a thread dominated by "****ing disgrace, Leeann should take a look at herself".

I've always seen that as Hibs' problem - communication and wee cliques in the support. Not a points system - this is endpoint of a problem not the beginning, where were the fans uproar and protest at the removal of the points system, where was the communication amongst fans groups and where was the action to get it rectified? No idea personally, but people feel the right now to complain profusely and then snipe down anyone who takes a calmer view of the situation...

I'll be turning up to games and everything but beyond that, that's it for me - want whats best for the club but until someone tells me how we get blinkered fans to discuss things without using playground humour or otherwise then I'm lost. No doubt I'll get some form of derogatory response to this but, like whether a loyalty points system gets implemented or not and whether all fans like it, I'm at the point of not caring - what saddens me is those that have been inflammatory probably take some glee in that.

Cliques.because some dare to follow the team away from home. If you read the links at bottom of statement you will see reference to working groups and meetings. Can I also point out nobody who wanted scheme scrapped bothered turning up to add to discussion

[madhatter]

Whats divisive about it? Go to more games than other folk, be more entitled to a ticket, have the same chance of a ticket as folk with the same number of pts. If I had 99pts and someone else had 100, they'd be entitled to a ticket before me.

Maybe the comment is divisive because we have 2 users of this forum suggesting I'm a numpty because I don't follow their thinking - I understand a loyalty points system but presented issues which I presume away fans complained about originally hence club decided willy-nilly to scrap the loyalty scheme? If they don't agree then reason an argument in response to my view. If this loyalty points system is so "keep it simply stupid", why did away fans raise issues with it? I didn't contribute to getting it scrapped because my opinion wasn't even asked - and by the way my opinion is "don't particularly care because it doesn't affect me but lets see what all fans think".

Knowing fans, the issue with the previous loyalty scheme was probably "the numbers were too big, can we have a lower number total and smaller increments etc.". It'll be something minor that has caused this major catastrophe. One, again, that isn't really affecting me.

[wookie70]

From my memory there were only two issues with the loyalty system that advocates of the scheme were unhappy with. The HSL points and the decisions taken on how many points needed to get in a tranche. The tranches for the Hearts games being the one that created most debate because lots of supporters were put in with season ticket holders who hadn't attended an away game that year. Those issues needed exploring not the sytem as a whole.

[northstandhibby]

Personally I liked the loyalty points system. I think it encouraged folk to attend when they could and the ascending number of points gained made sure the ones who attended most were rewarded with increased chances of tickets for matches such as this upcoming huge cup game when demand far outstrips supply.

glory glory

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm out of here, it really doesnae need to be that complicated, opinions are polarised so we're never going to get anywhere. (NSH understands though). ;-)

[Sir David Gray]

As others have said, when other clubs who have a far bigger fanbase than Hibs run loyalty points schemes quite successfully, it really does beg the question why should it not work for us?

[0762]

The flawed thing here was the decision to scrap the loyalty scheme not the scheme itself.

Yes there was always going to be people disappointed who didn't get tickets for this game. But continually creating a scramble for tickets in this day and age is just not acceptable.
A loyalty point scheme should be the mechanism to sell tickets in an orderly fashion. Unfortunately someone just doesn't seem to understand how these things work.

What is clear from the posts on here and in social media is we have large sections of our support who are once again frustrated at the way ticket sales have been handed. Worryingly there are those who now realise they've run up ridiculous telephone bills in the hope that they "might" get a ticket. With a Loyalty Scheme in place if Joe Punter knows he has "X" pts but he needs "Y" pts to guarantee a ticket he won't spend hours of his time and money trying.

Loyalty Points are about putting people in an order so when it comes to games like this the tickets are allocated in that order. Those who have most points get offered the tickets first.

I'm disappointed to read that those involved in Working Together wanted to tweak the previous scheme but were overruled. They obviously saw the value it would have on occasions like this, just poor others didn't.

[madhatter]

Cliques.because some dare to follow the team away from home. If you read the links at bottom of statement you will see reference to working groups and meetings. Can I also point out nobody who wanted scheme scrapped bothered turning up to add to discussion


Ah, the bit in bold is what it is truly about isn't it - the quality and measure of a fan.

I've read the statement and looked at the links - I wasn't asked about the loyalty points system from my recollection even though the club have my email etc. so are we saying we need to only work via groups and meetings?

"Can I also point out nobody who wanted scheme scrapped bothered turning up to add to discussion" - are you saying that fans who voted for it should be disowned or something? I fully agree it is very poor if they did this and didn't turn up but, and I emphasise this, I wasn't personally involved, I don't care whether we implement loyalty points or not just that fans are collectively happy with the arrangement and can handle losing out on tickets without rapidly going from salt n pepper to full out salt. Club are at fault if they scrapped without appropriate consultation but yet again I point to communication rather than the loyalty points system. I try to keep up-to-date with all things Hibs but things slip through the net, why? Partially my fault, yes but club need to improve fan interaction.

[ancient hibee]

As others have said, when other clubs who have a far bigger fanbase than Hibs run loyalty points schemes quite successfully, it really does beg the question why should it not work for us?
Could that be because that fans in far bigger clubs know that they are only going to get an away ticket under a scheme occasionally so they are philosophical and don't go into orbit when they don't get one?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Ah, the bit in bold is what it is truly about isn't it - the quality and measure of a fan.

I've read the statement and looked at the links - I wasn't asked about the loyalty points system from my recollection even though the club have my email etc. so are we saying we need to only work via groups and meetings?

"Can I also point out nobody who wanted scheme scrapped bothered turning up to add to discussion" - are you saying that fans who voted for it should be disowned or something? I fully agree it is very poor if they did this and didn't turn up but, and I emphasise this, I wasn't personally involved, I don't care whether we implement loyalty points or not just that fans are collectively happy with the arrangement and can handle losing out on tickets without rapidly going from salt n pepper to full out salt. Club are at fault if they scrapped without appropriate consultation but yet again I point to communication rather than the loyalty points system. I try to keep up-to-date with all things Hibs but things slip through the net, why? Partially my fault, yes but club need to improve fan interaction.

Your opening sentence is wrong, its to guarantee those who travel the most get rewarded. I'm done now, way past my bedtime.

Can agree the fan interaction is poor though......

[ihibs7]

Nonsense

Exactly, if you don't give priority to the people who attend every week then they won't attend every week.

Spurious references to concerts, ticketmaster and supply and demand doesn't hide the central point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[madhatter]

The flawed thing here was the decision to scrap the loyalty scheme not the scheme itself.

Yes there was always going to be people disappointed who didn't get tickets for this game. But continually creating a scramble for tickets in this day and age is just not acceptable.
A loyalty point scheme should be the mechanism to sell tickets in an orderly fashion. Unfortunately someone just doesn't seem to understand how these things work.

What is clear from the posts on here and in social media is we have large sections of our support who are once again frustrated at the way ticket sales have been handed. Worryingly there are those who now realise they've run up ridiculous telephone bills in the hope that they "might" get a ticket. With a Loyalty Scheme in place if Joe Punter knows he has "X" pts but he needs "Y" pts to guarantee a ticket he won't spend hours of his time and money trying.

Loyalty Points are about putting people in an order so when it comes to games like this the tickets are allocated in that order. Those who have most points get offered the tickets first.

I'm disappointed to read that those involved in Working Together wanted to tweak the previous scheme but were overruled. They obviously saw the value it would have on occasions like this, just poor others didn't.

"Unfortunately someone just doesn't seem to understand how these things work." That referring to me? May I suggest rather than wasting needless energy on sly digs at fellow fans which seems to be the done thing around here, you all band together and communicate this feeling back to the club, getting a consensus together and actually push for it. Guess trying to diminish the number of fans we have by belittling them is just easier? As I've stated over and over again, I know how a loyalty points system works but as some people didn't seem to understand from Leeann's statement is she is right "some people will still always be disappointed", poorly worded but true. As I've said "Fair" is a point of view and as is proven from the flak I've taken we are doubtful to have a meaningful consensus among fickle fans especially with lashing out occurring. "Scott Allan is a Hibs hero"..."I hate him and I hope he never comes back"...."I'd take him back in a heartbeat". "Loyalty system isn't quite working out because of these two things"...."I like it"..."I don't like it"..."bring back the loyalty system"..."scrap it"

[Baldy Foghorn]

"Unfortunately someone just doesn't seem to understand how these things work." That referring to me? May I suggest rather than wasting needless energy on sly digs at fellow fans which seems to be the done thing around here, you all band together and communicate this feeling back to the club, getting a consensus together and actually push for it. Guess trying to diminish the number of fans we have by belittling them is just easier? As I've stated over and over again, I know how a loyalty points system works but as some people didn't seem to understand from Leeann's statement is she is right "some people will still always be disappointed", poorly worded but true. As I've said "Fair" is a point of view and as is proven from the flak I've taken we are doubtful to have a meaningful consensus among fickle fans especially with lashing out occurring. "Scott Allan is a Hibs hero"..."I hate him and I hope he never comes back"...."I'd take him back in a heartbeat". "Loyalty system isn't quite working out because of these two things"...."I like it"..."I don't like it"..."bring back the loyalty system"..."scrap it"

Feel the poster was meaning LD, not yourself...

[Sir David Gray]

Could that be because that fans in far bigger clubs know that they are only going to get an away ticket under a scheme occasionally so they are philosophical and don't go into orbit when they don't get one?

Possibly but it works well at other clubs that have a similar size of support as us as well.

I'm in the camp that says, the more games you attend, the more likely it should be that you get a ticket for games when there's high demand. The loyalty system wasn't without its flaws but it's the fairest way to run things in my opinion.

[ancient hibee]

Possibly but it works well at other clubs that have a similar size of support as us as well.

I'm in the camp that says, the more games you attend, the more likely it should be that you get a ticket for games when there's high demand. The loyalty system wasn't without its flaws but it's the fairest way to run things in my opinion.
Yes I agree with that.

[madhatter]

Exactly, if you don't give priority to the people who attend every week then they won't attend every week.

Spurious references to concerts, ticketmaster and supply and demand doesn't hide the central point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The central point isn't that, sorry. We had what people seem to be profusely missing - yet most people seem to be unsure about the arguments, discussions and about the reasoning and timing of the eventual dismissal of the scheme. The problem I point to isn't the loyalty scheme, it is why is there such limited knowledge to the reason for it's removal? I presume certain fans know the story but are we relying on hearsay?

We plaster over the cracks with another loyalty points system and the problem will rise up again. This is the end point of poor fan interaction, did fans know it was there if they weren't away fans, did they know how it worked, did they know it was taken away? A couple of club statements on the website possibly doesn't reach 10-20% of our fan base, are we hoping any corresponding vote regarding these matters doesn't reach them also? is that right? that's what I've been pointing to all along and yet its all been about getting a bleeding number on a database to most people. I understand this is a big derby coming up but this problem is more than that and its something vast number of fans should be involved in (proactively) - not me now though as I can't understand a loyalty points system and we don't need numpties in our support.

[0762]

"Unfortunately someone just doesn't seem to understand how these things work." That referring to me? May I suggest rather than wasting needless energy on sly digs at fellow fans which seems to be the done thing around here, you all band together and communicate this feeling back to the club, getting a consensus together and actually push for it. Guess trying to diminish the number of fans we have by belittling them is just easier? As I've stated over and over again, I know how a loyalty points system works but as some people didn't seem to understand from Leeann's statement is she is right "some people will still always be disappointed", poorly worded but true. As I've said "Fair" is a point of view and as is proven from the flak I've taken we are doubtful to have a meaningful consensus among fickle fans especially with lashing out occurring. "Scott Allan is a Hibs hero"..."I hate him and I hope he never comes back"...."I'd take him back in a heartbeat". "Loyalty system isn't quite working out because of these two things"...."I like it"..."I don't like it"..."bring back the loyalty system"..."scrap it"


Think you have the wrong end of the stick here mate!
No dig at you!! Suggest you read my previous post again.

[Eyrie]

Possibly but it works well at other clubs that have a similar size of support as us as well.

I'm in the camp that says, the more games you attend, the more likely it should be that you get a ticket for games when there's high demand. The loyalty system wasn't without its flaws but it's the fairest way to run things in my opinion.

It's pretty straightforward :agree:

It's almost as simple as saying that those of you with season tickets deserve the chance of a scarce away ticket ahead of those of us who don't have a season ticket. I don't complain that is unfair, because I could get a season ticket if I wanted but can't due to a lack of time to attend enough games to make it worthwhile.

Mind you, I could have bought a season ticket at the start of the season and just not turned up. Under the current system I'd still have the same chance of a PBS ticket as someone who never misses a home game and makes most away games. Indeed, if I was quick enough I could get a ticket ahead of that person who then misses out.

[madhatter]

Think you have the wrong end of the stick here mate!
No dig at you!! Suggest you read my previous post again.

Don't care anymore tbh, defences were up because of other wee digs suggesting I was obtuse or generally quite slow, confused by simple matters basically. I'll just watch Hibs the way I want and leave everyone to their own devices. Sorry I misunderstood, as I said I'd taken some flak and I assumed you had joined the club. If Hibs keep running I don't care what happens outside of that clearly my opinion is deemed as worthless which I view as mistake but hey, that's probably just my opinion as a numpty so I probably won't be back on here other than checking any signing speculation in the summer, even then probably not, all the best.

[0762]

Don't care anymore tbh, defences were up because of other wee digs suggesting I was obtuse or generally quite slow, confused by simple matters basically. I'll just watch Hibs the way I want and leave everyone to their own devices. Sorry I misunderstood, as I said I'd taken some flak and I assumed you had joined the club. If Hibs keep running I don't care what happens outside of that clearly my opinion is deemed as worthless which I view as mistake but hey, that's probably just my opinion as a numpty so I probably won't be back on here other than checking any signing speculation in the summer, even then probably not, all the best.



Apology accepted.
GGTTH

[ihibs7]

Is that a criticism of the board & specifically Leeann & Rod?




The central point isn't that, sorry. We had what people seem to be profusely missing - yet most people seem to be unsure about the arguments, discussions and about the reasoning and timing of the eventual dismissal of the scheme. The problem I point to isn't the loyalty scheme, it is why is there such limited knowledge to the reason for it's removal? I presume certain fans know the story but are we relying on hearsay?

We plaster over the cracks with another loyalty points system and the problem will rise up again. This is the end point of poor fan interaction, did fans know it was there if they weren't away fans, did they know how it worked, did they know it was taken away? A couple of club statements on the website possibly doesn't reach 10-20% of our fan base, are we hoping any corresponding vote regarding these matters doesn't reach them also? is that right? that's what I've been pointing to all along and yet its all been about getting a bleeding number on a database to most people. I understand this is a big derby coming up but this problem is more than that and its something vast number of fans should be involved in (proactively) - not me now though as I can't understand a loyalty points system and we don't need numpties in our support.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Babyshamble]

My son & I along with 2 mates have always managed to get tickets for tynecastle.we don't go to a lot of away games.but we are all ST holders.have been for a number of years.genuinly feel sorry for folk that haven't missed an away game & haven't got tickets for this one,but as a ST HOLDERS we have as much right as anyone to chance our luck & get them.BRING IT ON 🇳🇬🏆🇳🇬

[madhatter]

Is that a criticism of the board & specifically Leeann & Rod?

A little, why? A little on the fans too. Board can't drive everything and going by these discussions, fans are incapable largely of holding meaningful discussions especially online hence why I'm moseying on out of here shortly. I believe in sharing the blame, people want finger pointing capabilities. People who largely knew this was coming, what was done before the fact? mass threads on both here and the Bounce? fan groups uniting to push for change? Nah, fans deciding to go absolutely ballistic when they don't get a ticket which people seem to think a points system would resolve - does the points system come with an inbuilt chill pill distributor that all fans can use because as Leeann said there will always be someone losing the plot over not getting a ticket. The same fans then proceed to take digs at fans who try to point this out. Bizarre really hence I'm off, people want change but don't do anything but rant individually for selfish reasons, let's be honest where are all the away travelling faithful who got a ticket? Protesting outside the main stand now for their brethren? After all the impression I'm getting is they are all a great believer in all away fans getting priority? I guess now they have a ticket for the derby that isn't their priority? Anyway, peace out. I don't understand things.

[Hermit Crab]

My son & I along with 2 mates have always managed to get tickets for tynecastle.we don't go to a lot of away games.but we are all ST holders.have been for a number of years.genuinly feel sorry for folk that haven't missed an away game & haven't got tickets for this one,but as a ST HOLDERS we have as much right as anyone to chance our luck & get them.BRING IT ON [emoji1184][emoji471][emoji1184]

It's good that you managed tonger tickets but while you're not wrong about your entitlement it is grossly unfair that regulars missed out because Hibs failed to do the basics and look after the regular away fans with a good solid points system.

[Babyshamble]

It's good that you managed tonger tickets but while you're not wrong about your entitlement it is grossly unfair that regulars missed out because Hibs failed to do the basics and look after the regular away fans with a good solid points system.

I agree totally.its only this season I haven't been to lot of away games due to finances.we're based in Fife so it's the rovers ,pars etc for us.but your point stands mate.A fairer system needs to be put in place.

[ajf]

If you wanted a ticket bad enough there was only one way to guarantee it , get out your bed early enough and go and queue, my son asked me to phone and he would do online but I went to Easter rd and queued instead thankfully , but if you wanted to do it the lazy way don't complain , I also arranged a day off work unpaid to get ours , the guy next to me was a 72 year old jambo who walked 3 miles to the ground queued for 8 hours to get tickets for his grand children (hibbies) , dry your eyes and man up

[BH Hibs]

If you wanted a ticket bad enough there was only one way to guarantee it , get out your bed early enough and go and queue, my son asked me to phone and he would do online but I went to Easter rd and queued instead thankfully , but if you wanted to do it the lazy way don't complain , I also arranged a day off work unpaid to get ours , the guy next to me was a 72 year old jambo who walked 3 miles to the ground queued for 8 hours to get tickets for his grand children (hibbies) , dry your eyes and man up

:fishin:

Happy fishing

[Hermit Crab]

If you wanted a ticket bad enough there was only one way to guarantee it , get out your bed early enough and go and queue, my son asked me to phone and he would do online but I went to Easter rd and queued instead thankfully , but if you wanted to do it the lazy way don't complain , I also arranged a day off work unpaid to get ours , the guy next to me was a 72 year old jambo who walked 3 miles to the ground queued for 8 hours to get tickets for his grand children (hibbies) , dry your eyes and man up

Most bosses will agree to unpaid leave right enough.

[PompeyHibs]

I think Hibs done well on this occasion offering three methods to buy tickets.

Good point - handing out vouchers (advising those without vouchers not to waste time and stand in the cold)

Bad point - not directly Hibs but ticket master - lots of fans fleeced for calling the 0844 number

Demand was always going to outstrip Supply.
11.5k season tickets - 3.3k available.
Season ticket holders should always get first dibs.

The loyalty points scheme was set up wrongly to start with thats why it didnt work plus created extra admin for Hibs.

[andyf5]

I think Hibs done well on this occasion offering three methods to buy tickets.

Good point - handing out vouchers (advising those without vouchers not to waste time and stand in the cold)

Bad point - not directly Hibs but ticket master - lots of fans fleeced for calling the 0844 number

Demand was always going to outstrip Supply.
11.5k season tickets - 3.3k available.
Season ticket holders should always get first dibs.

The loyalty points scheme was set up wrongly to start with thats why it didn't work plus created extra admin for Hibs.

A ballet would have been better.

Number chosen at random from existing database and emails or texts sent offering opportunity to buy up to 4 tickets for reference numbers on database. Repeat in batches of 200 until done. Turn up at ticket office or online.

No waiting overnight, no massive premium rate phone bills, no angst at not getting a ticket with computer failures kicking you out as you put them in the basket.

[green day]

A ballet would have been better.

You need to stop prancing around and get to the point 😂😂

[Hibby70]

First we have Bobby Williamson telling us to go to the cinema, now Leann wants us to watch the ballet. Where will it end!

[PompeyHibs]

A ballet would have been better.

Number chosen at random from existing database and emails or texts sent offering opportunity to buy up to 4 tickets for reference numbers on database. Repeat in batches of 200 until done. Turn up at ticket office or online.

No waiting overnight, no massive premium rate phone bills, no angst at not getting a ticket with computer failures kicking you out as you put them in the basket.

Thats a good point. A ballot would work in this situation.
If a ballot for future i would think option to buy just 1 ticket.
3,300 ticket would give season ticket holders a 1/4 chance.

It would be good to find out how say Celtic chop up away tickets as they sell out away games everyweek and have say 40,000 season tickets.

I'd imagine demand for all games except The Rangers would be similar with the rangers away being most popular.

[PompeyHibs]

First we have Bobby Williamson telling us to go to the cinema, now Leann wants us to watch the ballet. Where will it end!

10/10 brilliant 😂

[hibbysam]

I think Hibs done well on this occasion offering three methods to buy tickets.

Good point - handing out vouchers (advising those without vouchers not to waste time and stand in the cold)

Bad point - not directly Hibs but ticket master - lots of fans fleeced for calling the 0844 number

Demand was always going to outstrip Supply.
11.5k season tickets - 3.3k available.
Season ticket holders should always get first dibs.

The loyalty points scheme was set up wrongly to start with thats why it didnt work plus created extra admin for Hibs.

The worst excuse for scrapping the system. If, in this day and age, the club cannot make the system automated then we have issues, and even if it wasn't automated, I'm sure we can afford to hire two additional staff to help out within the TO.

The LP's wasn't set up wrongly, the decisions during the season was what was wrong with it.

[pacoluna]

Will those fans that go to all the games and have missed tynie for the first time in years be purchasing an away season ticket next year if its still in place? or will you chance your luck and be open to disappointment?

[Brightside]

The AYR game should be a sell out. :wink:

[green&left]

Thats a good point. A ballot would work in this situation.
If a ballot for future i would think option to buy just 1 ticket.
3,300 ticket would give season ticket holders a 1/4 chance.

It would be good to find out how say Celtic chop up away tickets as they sell out away games everyweek and have say 40,000 season tickets.

I'd imagine demand for all games except The Rangers would be similar with the rangers away being most popular.

**** ballots. Least you can gurantee a ticket if you're prepared to get up early enough.


Celtic offer a loyalty point system, as do Hearts, Rangers and Aberdeen. Dunno about the latter 3 but Celtic offer points for going to all away games, but the away games with large allocations goto general sale for ST holders. Not rocket science and works for a club with 45000 season ticket holders. How we couldn't manage it with 11,000 season ticket holders is hard to believe.

Anyway should we get though and get Aberdeen or Ross County away, looking forward to us taking 4000 up A9 or A90 going by the demand of this game :cb:greengrin

[C Feeney-Seale]

While I can understand the clubs reluctance given the less than smooth experience from last time, my sense from reading reactions online is that there is a pretty strong feeling that we need some kind of loyalty system - the poll on this forum (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318299-Should-Hibs-re-introduce-some-form-of-loyalty-scheme) has more than 80% in favour. I outlined my own thoughts earlier (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318306-Ticket-Office-Shambles&p=4928903&viewfull=1#post4928903).


We need a way to actually check if this is what fans want, and fortunately we have an opportunity. Soon the ballot will be launching to elect the next two fan representatives - can we add on a simple yes/ no question to establish whether the majority want a loyalty system or not? Voting is meant to start soon (6 February) so we might be cutting it a little fine here, but worth exploring I think.


If the answer is yes, then we can start feeding in our ideas, and as I said in a previous post I would really like to see the club share a blueprint in advance so we can make sure the system lands better than the first attempt.


If the answer is no then we can consider the issue settled.


There will be many more games next season where demand outstrips supply, so now is the time to have these conversations. If we don't settle this, we'll certainly be dealing with the same frustrations again.


Cheers,


Charlene

[SteveHFC]

Thats a good point. A ballot would work in this situation.
If a ballot for future i would think option to buy just 1 ticket.
3,300 ticket would give season ticket holders a 1/4 chance.

It would be good to find out how say Celtic chop up away tickets as they sell out away games everyweek and have say 40,000 season tickets.

I'd imagine demand for all games except The Rangers would be similar with the rangers away being most popular.

Trouble with a ballot is you can end up on your own with no family or mates

[SteveHFC]

The worst excuse for scrapping the system. If, in this day and age, the club cannot make the system automated then we have issues, and even if it wasn't automated, I'm sure we can afford to hire two additional staff to help out within the TO.

The LP's wasn't set up wrongly, the decisions during the season was what was wrong with it.

:agree: I suspect it comes down to money in the end

[SteveHFC]

While I can understand the clubs reluctance given the less than smooth experience from last time, my sense from reading reactions online is that there is a pretty strong feeling that we need some kind of loyalty system - the poll on this forum (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318299-Should-Hibs-re-introduce-some-form-of-loyalty-scheme) has more than 80% in favour. I outlined my own thoughts earlier (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318306-Ticket-Office-Shambles&p=4928903&viewfull=1#post4928903).


We need a way to actually check if this is what fans want, and fortunately we have an opportunity. Soon the ballot will be launching to elect the next two fan representatives - can we add on a simple yes/ no question to establish whether the majority want a loyalty system or not? Voting is meant to start soon (6 February) so we might be cutting it a little fine here, but worth exploring I think.


If the answer is yes, then we can start feeding in our ideas, and as I said in a previous post I would really like to see the club share a blueprint in advance so we can make sure the system lands better than the first attempt.


If the answer is no then we can consider the issue settled.


There will be many more games next season where demand outstrips supply, so now is the time to have these conversations. If we don't settle this, we'll certainly be dealing with the same frustrations again.


Cheers,


Charlene

They need to consult all the fans not just a small number through groups and meetings

[C Feeney-Seale]

They need to consult all the fans not just a small number through groups and meetings

Exactly, that's why I'm suggesting trying to take advantage of the upcoming vote which is open to all fans with a client reference number.

Cheers,

Charlene

[Andy74]

The fans that go every week are very fortunate - they get to see Hibs and have that day out every week - nice that they can.

A small number of this group seem to think it is their extra 'commitment' or 'loyalty' that means they can go. I'm sure most Hibs fans would also do this if they can but they have to settle for the ones they can get to. A small number would like to see these fans basically blocked form being able to even go to those games because they haven't been as committed as them?

[Andy74]

Exactly, that's why I'm suggesting trying to take advantage of the upcoming vote which is open to all fans with a client reference number.

Cheers,

Charlene

Do you know that Hibs had an open consultation to all fans on the loyalty points issue before they made their decision?

[Baldy Foghorn]

The fans that go every week are very fortunate - they get to see Hibs and have that day out every week - nice that they can.

A small number of this group seem to think it is their extra 'commitment' or 'loyalty' that means they can go. I'm sure most Hibs fans would also do this if they can but they have to settle for the ones they can get to. A small number would like to see these fans basically blocked form being able to even go to those games because they haven't been as committed as them?

Do you not think travelling over Country every second week, showing commitment, deserve some sort of priority?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Do you know that Hibs had an open consultation to all fans on the loyalty points issue before they made their decision?

And nobody who wanted scheme scrapped turned up:rolleyes:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Loyalty systems are not flawed, you go to games, get points, the higher the points, the better your chances

In a nutshell. I don't get why some folk have a problem with that. No system will work perfectly and there will always be exceptions that prove the rule, but overall a points scheme is fairer than what we had on Wednesday; there can't be any doubt of that. If I miss out for the sake of someone who has been to more away games than myself, good luck to them; it's right they should be there. The system will only be needed for a tiny number of matches: all can attend the vast majority of matches, but in rare cases when there aren't enough tickets to go around, let's ensure those who have backed the team the most get every chance.

[SteveHFC]

Do you know that Hibs had an open consultation to all fans on the loyalty points issue before they made their decision?

didn't consult me, any family members or any of the large group in my area, too much of listening to a few and ignore the rest IMHO

[Andy74]

didn't consult me, any family members or any of the large group in my area, too much of listening to a few and ignore the rest IMHO

I think it was listening to a few that got the scheme set up in the first place. I don't recall any clamour for it or consultation.

At the time of scrapping it was there not a message from Hibs that they were considering changes and invited anyone at all who was interested to write in and submit their views? Pretty sure they did this.

[Andy74]

Wording from the decision:

As you may know, the Club has been reviewing the Loyalty Points system for a number of months.

This has taken a little longer than we would have liked as a result of other issues that we had to prioritise, but we needed to take enough time to review and consider a range of opinion from supporters, both those in the working group on loyalty points and others who offered their feedback following our request in March. All of the opinions and feedback have been well rehearsed and debated from each perspective - and with that I would like to thank all supporters who have contributed to the discussion and been involved in our Working Together forums. It now requires a decision.

The Club has to make decisions we believe in, but also to reflect that sometimes we get it wrong or that our decisions and actions have unexpected consequences.


Confirmation from March that anyone could feed in to the debate:

If any supporters would like to join the debate they can email their suggestions on the loyalty point scheme by 14 March to enquiries@hibernianfc.co.uk.

[HappyHanlon]

Its really not that difficult.

Bring back Loyalty Points and award ONLY on match attendance.

No club store purchases, no pies bought at games and certainly not giving money to HSL.

The fans who go home and away will rightly get their tickets and the rest can fight it out in the scramble.

BTW, Terrible statement from LD - she's way off the mark and comes across purely wanting money rather than looking out for the fans who follow this club across the country.

[Andy74]

If they did then the message didn't reach this household or many more in my area, they have a database with email addresses on it which gets used when they want to but seem unable to use at other times.
Not one member of my family have ever had an email asking for views on anything but plenty when there is something to sell.

The communication with fans at times is not the best but that's for another day

It was on the Hibs website.

[SteveHFC]

Wording from the decision:

As you may know, the Club has been reviewing the Loyalty Points system for a number of months.

This has taken a little longer than we would have liked as a result of other issues that we had to prioritise, but we needed to take enough time to review and consider a range of opinion from supporters, both those in the working group on loyalty points and others who offered their feedback following our request in March. All of the opinions and feedback have been well rehearsed and debated from each perspective - and with that I would like to thank all supporters who have contributed to the discussion and been involved in our Working Together forums. It now requires a decision.

The Club has to make decisions we believe in, but also to reflect that sometimes we get it wrong or that our decisions and actions have unexpected consequences.


Confirmation from March that anyone could feed in to the debate:

If any supporters would like to join the debate they can email their suggestions on the loyalty point scheme by 14 March to enquiries@hibernianfc.co.uk.

just found that so missed the boat and to be fair they did ask so will retract some of the above

[Hibernia&Alba]

Its really not that difficult.

Bring back Loyalty Points and award ONLY on match attendance.

No club store purchases, no pies bought at games and certainly not giving money to HSL.

The fans who go home and away will rightly get their tickets and the rest can fight it out in the scramble.

BTW, Terrible statement from LD - she's way off the mark and comes across purely wanting money rather than looking out for the fans who follow this club across the country.

:top marks

[WS Hibs]

The fans that go every week are very fortunate - they get to see Hibs and have that day out every week - nice that they can.

A small number of this group seem to think it is their extra 'commitment' or 'loyalty' that means they can go. I'm sure most Hibs fans would also do this if they can but they have to settle for the ones they can get to. A small number would like to see these fans basically blocked form being able to even go to those games because they haven't been as committed as them?

Let's be brutally honest here, whilst there are some Hibs fans who definitely have issues with cost/time and therefore can't make away games, the vast majority of Hibs fans absolutely pick and choose their away games based on the "quality" of the game. It's a strange mentality, there are a minority of non ST Hibs fans who seem to only want to go to Hearts away all season, and end up spending as much time at Tynecastle as they do at Easter Road.

[GreenPJ]

In a nutshell. I don't get why some folk have a problem with that. No system will work perfectly and there will always be exceptions that prove the rule, but overall a points scheme is fairer than what we had on Wednesday; there can't be any doubt of that. If I miss out for the sake of someone who has been to more away games than myself, good luck to them; it's right they should be there. The system will only be needed for a tiny number of matches: all can attend the vast majority of matches, but in rare cases when there aren't enough tickets to go around, let's ensure those who have backed the team the most get every chance.

Loyalty schemes reward people with the means to spend money on Hibs (or away clubs). There will be lots of good loyal Hibs fans who can't afford a season ticket or the ability to go to lots of away games or they have to work on a Saturday or numerous other reasons.

I am not suggesting there should not be a reward mechanism for people who spend lots on Hibs whether that be vouchers for behind the goals or the club shop but if we want to be fair then for ticket situations such as the derby whereby it could be oversubscribed by 4 or 5 times and you can't possibly meet the demand then the only fair way is a ballot - everyone in the hat together. You get lucky or you don't.

[WS Hibs]

Loyalty schemes reward people with the means to spend money on Hibs (or away clubs). There will be lots of good loyal Hibs fans who can't afford a season ticket or the ability to go to lots of away games or they have to work on a Saturday or numerous other reasons.

I am not suggesting there should not be a reward mechanism for people who spend lots on Hibs whether that be vouchers for behind the goals or the club shop but if we want to be fair then for ticket situations such as the derby whereby it could be oversubscribed by 4 or 5 times and you can't possibly meet the demand then the only fair way is a ballot - everyone in the hat together. You get lucky or you don't.

And again, let's be honest here, whilst there are people in that situation - and I would never want to have a go at them - there are plenty more who just don't want to seem to do away games unless it's Hearts away. Despite not showing any interest in away games all season, they're suddenly willing to spend face value £28 (or sometimes buy extortionately priced second hand tickets), and queue outside Easter Road for 12 hours.

A few people I've seen elsewhere seem to suggest that queueing for half a day for your ticket makes you entitled to one. Ridiculous IMO. A person who has never been to a game in their life could get in touch with somebody who has a client reference number, stand outside the ticket office from midnight and get a ticket. That shows desperation, not loyalty to Hibs.

In my opinion, a ballot is not the right way for a club of Hibs' size. Teams like Rangers need it because their demand for away tickets outstrips supply almost every single week. That will never be the case with Hibs apart from one or two games a season - and sometimes we used to struggle to sell half the Roseburn. Why? Call it as it is, fans want to go to the glamour games, and feel they shouldn't lose out to fans who go all over Scotland to see Hibs week in, week out.

But they should lose out, because those fans have got themselves to almost every single away game in a season. They buy tickets even when the demand is very low (eg Queen of the South away), why should they not be prioritised when demand is very high? The fact that Dempster seems unable to distinguish between "disappointed supporters" who had no almost claim to a ticket under the old loyalty points system and "disappointed supporters" who follow Hibs everywhere seems a tad worrying to me.

One more thing, we also have a loyal away fanbase of about 1,000-1,500. If they all got their ticket, there would still be a good 2,000 tickets for the home ST holders and less frequent away travellers to go for.

[ronaldo7]

Exactly, that's why I'm suggesting trying to take advantage of the upcoming vote which is open to all fans with a client reference number.

Cheers,

Charlene

Don't quote me, however, I think around 1,000 fans decided to vote for the Fans reps the last time round. From what I've gleaned on fans forums, that number might be lower this time.

I'd personally keep the fans rep vote separate from the Priority ticketing scheme.

Hibs need to think this one through this time, rather than starting a scheme which is flawed. IMO

[jeffers]

The fans that go every week are very fortunate - they get to see Hibs and have that day out every week - nice that they can.

A small number of this group seem to think it is their extra 'commitment' or 'loyalty' that means they can go. I'm sure most Hibs fans would also do this if they can but they have to settle for the ones they can get to. A small number would like to see these fans basically blocked form being able to even go to those games because they haven't been as committed as them?

I don't see anybody suggesting fans who don't go to every game be blocked from being able to go, just give the priority to those who do go (almost) every week. Following your logic I'm sure there are Hibs fans who would love to have a season ticket, but for whatever reason don't. If they have a client reference then why don't they get the same opportunity to purchase tickets for away games as those with season tickets ?

[Wheat Hound]

And again, let's be honest here, whilst there are people in that situation - and I would never want to have a go at them - there are plenty more who just don't want to seem to do away games unless it's Hearts away. Despite not showing any interest in away games all season, they're suddenly willing to spend face value £28 (or sometimes buy extortionately priced second hand tickets), and queue outside Easter Road for 12 hours.

A few people I've seen elsewhere seem to suggest that queueing for half a day for your ticket makes you entitled to one. Ridiculous IMO. A person who has never been to a game in their life could get in touch with somebody who has a client reference number, stand outside the ticket office from midnight and get a ticket. That shows desperation, not loyalty to Hibs.

In my opinion, a ballot is not the right way for a club of Hibs' size. Teams like Rangers need it because their demand for away tickets outstrips supply almost every single week. That will never be the case with Hibs apart from one or two games a season - and sometimes we used to struggle to sell half the Roseburn. Why? Call it as it is, fans want to go to the glamour games, and feel they shouldn't lose out to fans who go all over Scotland to see Hibs week in, week out.

But they should lose out, because those fans have got themselves to almost every single away game in a season. They buy tickets even when the demand is very low (eg Queen of the South away), why should they not be prioritised when demand is very high? The fact that Dempster seems unable to distinguish between "disappointed supporters" who had no almost claim to a ticket under the old loyalty points system and "disappointed supporters" who follow Hibs everywhere seems a tad worrying to me.

One more thing, we also have a loyal away fanbase of about 1,000-1,500. If they all got their ticket, there would still be a good 2,000 tickets for the home ST holders and less frequent away travellers to go for.

Spot on mate

[Super_JMcGinn]

I don't see anybody suggesting fans who don't go to every game be blocked from being able to go, just give the priority to those who do go (almost) every week. Following your logic I'm sure there are Hibs fans who would love to have a season ticket, but for whatever reason don't. If they have a client reference then why don't they get the same opportunity to purchase tickets for away games as those with season tickets ?

Irrespective of away games attended NO season ticket holder should be excluded from the initial sales of ANY tickets for ANY match.

Good luck to you people who go home and away every week, you are no more a fan of the club than the rest of us.

I know people who travel away to most games and contribute nothing like the amount of money I do to the club combined, I'm not asking for special treatment as I know there are hundreds more families like mine.

A ballot system for season ticket holders who wish to go is the only fair way forward even though a loyalty scheme would benefit me more.

I would like to add if a supporter can show proof of attendance at all home games then they should be included in said ballot.

[Andy74]

I don't see anybody suggesting fans who don't go to every game be blocked from being able to go, just give the priority to those who do go (almost) every week. Following your logic I'm sure there are Hibs fans who would love to have a season ticket, but for whatever reason don't. If they have a client reference then why don't they get the same opportunity to purchase tickets for away games as those with season tickets ?

And your point is just about why a loyalty scheme that seemed to bridge that gap a little to bring pay as you go into some level of priority for bigger games might have worked. It got taken over by trying to form a further group above season ticket holders.

[hibbysam]

And your point is just about why a loyalty scheme that seemed to bridge that gap a little to bring pay as you go into some level of priority for bigger games might have worked. It got taken over by trying to form a further group above season ticket holders.

When you have 11,000+ STH, and only 3000 tickets, or in some cases 900 tickets, then I'm afraid there should be a group above STH, or we continue down the route of Wednesday which for a lot of people was a total shambles.

A season ticket allows you entry to home games, and should start you off at the same level for away games. However, as the season progresses, if another STH goes to more away games than you, then they should be above you in the pecking order for away tickets.

[jeffers]

Irrespective of away games attended NO season ticket holder should be excluded from the initial sales of ANY tickets for ANY match.

Good luck to you people who go home and away every week, you are no more a fan of the club than the rest of us.

I know people who travel away to most games and contribute nothing like the amount of money I do to the club combined, I'm not asking for special treatment as I know there are hundreds more families like mine.

A ballot system for season ticket holders who wish to go is the only fair way forward even though a loyalty scheme would benefit me more.

I would like to add if a supporter can show proof of attendance at all home games then they should be included in said ballot.

Not sure why you've quoted my post since your response didn't really address the point I was making. The whole point of going to away games is to support the team, not to provide any financial backing. I still don't get the argument that someone who has bought a season ticket but never attends away games should have the same opportunity to purchase tickets for big matches as someone who regularly attends away games. It doesn't matter what the reasons are for someone not going to away games, the fact is those who do are supporting the team and as such should get priority for high demand away tickets.

I've said it before but buying a season ticket imo was to help support the club financially for the forthcoming season and guarantee the same seat for every home game, it was never to give you an opportunity to buy tickets for away games.

Fwiw my stance isn't based on the fact I didn't get a ticket for next week or because I would have had enough points had the loyalty scheme still been in place. The chances are I may not have had enough points as I can no longer attend away games as easily as before and as it happens I was lucky enough to get a ticket in the on-line "lottery."

[hibbysam]

Not sure why you've quoted my post since your response didn't really address the point I was making. The whole point of going to away games is to support the team, not to provide any financial backing. I still don't get the argument that someone who has bought a season ticket but never attends away games should have the same opportunity to purchase tickets for big matches as someone who regularly attends away games. It doesn't matter what the reasons are for someone not going to away games, the fact is those who do are supporting the team and as such should get priority for high demand away tickets.

I've said it before but buying a season ticket imo was to help support the club financially for the forthcoming season and guarantee the same seat for every home game, it was never to give you an opportunity to buy tickets for away games.

Fwiw my stance isn't based on the fact I didn't get a ticket for next week or because I would have had enough points had the loyalty scheme still been in place. The chances are I may not have had enough points as I can no longer attend away games as easily as before and as it happens I was lucky enough to get a ticket in the on-line "lottery."

Agreed mate, it used to be stated in the "perks" section when ST advertising came out, but this has not been the case for a good few years now and if someone isn't going to renew a ST because they don't get priority for the one away game a season that they attend then they need to read back over the ST information page and realise that away games has absolutely naff all to do with a ST.

[jeffers]

And your point is just about why a loyalty scheme that seemed to bridge that gap a little to bring pay as you go into some level of priority for bigger games might have worked. It got taken over by trying to form a further group above season ticket holders.

That's not really answering my point though is it ? You mentioned that fans who regularly attended away games were lucky that they had the ability to do so, but shouldn't get priority for tickets over season ticket holders who never/rarely attended away games. I'm saying by that logic someone with a client reference but whose circumstances mean they never get to any games at all should get the same opportunity to purchase tickets as someone who was lucky enough to be able to purchase a season ticket.

[Radium]

Starting from a position that I believe that there should be a points scheme, my concern is the perception that there is a simple answer.

The board will clearly have a responsibility to protect the finances of the club and ATM I suspect the major source of income is STs.

The reputation of the club is also high up the list of priorities.

Going back to when the points were withdrawn there were certainly ST holders on here threatening not to renew. The club had also made a complete hash of the scheme through too many levels of release and the contamination by the HSL points. Given this I am not too surprised that the club saw it as toxic and dumped it.

The away ST was introduced as a patch but the uptake seems to have been small (suggestions on here that there are less than 200).

Perhaps the way forward would be to amend the away ticket scheme to allow people to opt out of a couple of games in the season. This would be in line with the idea that 10% of ST holders miss many home games. I don't know how many more applications this would generate but it may be worth limiting the numbers to ensure some tickets are available to all ST holders.

Just a thought


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Super_JMcGinn]

Not sure why you've quoted my post since your response didn't really address the point I was making. The whole point of going to away games is to support the team, not to provide any financial backing. I still don't get the argument that someone who has bought a season ticket but never attends away games should have the same opportunity to purchase tickets for big matches as someone who regularly attends away games. It doesn't matter what the reasons are for someone not going to away games, the fact is those who do are supporting the team and as such should get priority for high demand away tickets.

I've said it before but buying a season ticket imo was to help support the club financially for the forthcoming season and guarantee the same seat for every home game, it was never to give you an opportunity to buy tickets for away games.

Fwiw my stance isn't based on the fact I didn't get a ticket for next week or because I would have had enough points had the loyalty scheme still been in place. The chances are I may not have had enough points as I can no longer attend away games as easily as before and as it happens I was lucky enough to get a ticket in the on-line "lottery."

I happen to believe loyalty doesn't mean going to away games, there are so many more fans who show their loyalty to the club and contribute WAY more financially to the club than the away fans who btw many struggle to muster so much as a scarf to wear let alone a hibs top.

This isn't a dig at you and I'm sorry I quoted your post :wink:

[hibs0666]

I happen to believe loyalty doesn't mean going to away games, there are so many more fans who show their loyalty to the club and contribute WAY more financially to the club than the away fans who btw many struggle to muster so much as a scarf to wear let alone a hibs top.

This isn't a dig at you and I'm sorry I quoted your post :wink:

It's a loyalty scheme not a contribution scheme.

[WS Hibs]

I happen to believe loyalty doesn't mean going to away games, there are so many more fans who show their loyalty to the club and contribute WAY more financially to the club than the away fans who btw many struggle to muster so much as a scarf to wear let alone a hibs top.

This isn't a dig at you and I'm sorry I quoted your post :wink:

I think that's my cue to bow out of this one.

[Super_JMcGinn]

It's a loyalty scheme not a contribution scheme.

Then maybe it's time to change the wording

[jeffers]

I happen to believe loyalty doesn't mean going to away games, there are so many more fans who show their loyalty to the club and contribute WAY more financially to the club than the away fans who btw many struggle to muster so much as a scarf to wear let alone a hibs top.

This isn't a dig at you and I'm sorry I quoted your post :wink:

Not a problem.

The word "loyalty" seems to invoke strong emotions in some (same as "commitment" upsets others.) I personally wouldn't have called them loyalty points, but something like ticket points. As I've said before it's not about who is the better (or more loyal fan) it's about allowing those who regularly travel to away games priority over those who rarely do so.

[Carheenlea]

And again, let's be honest here, whilst there are people in that situation - and I would never want to have a go at them - there are plenty more who just don't want to seem to do away games unless it's Hearts away. Despite not showing any interest in away games all season, they're suddenly willing to spend face value £28 (or sometimes buy extortionately priced second hand tickets), and queue outside Easter Road for 12 hours.

A few people I've seen elsewhere seem to suggest that queueing for half a day for your ticket makes you entitled to one. Ridiculous IMO. A person who has never been to a game in their life could get in touch with somebody who has a client reference number, stand outside the ticket office from midnight and get a ticket. That shows desperation, not loyalty to Hibs.

In my opinion, a ballot is not the right way for a club of Hibs' size. Teams like Rangers need it because their demand for away tickets outstrips supply almost every single week. That will never be the case with Hibs apart from one or two games a season - and sometimes we used to struggle to sell half the Roseburn. Why? Call it as it is, fans want to go to the glamour games, and feel they shouldn't lose out to fans who go all over Scotland to see Hibs week in, week out.

But they should lose out, because those fans have got themselves to almost every single away game in a season. They buy tickets even when the demand is very low (eg Queen of the South away), why should they not be prioritised when demand is very high? The fact that Dempster seems unable to distinguish between "disappointed supporters" who had no almost claim to a ticket under the old loyalty points system and "disappointed supporters" who follow Hibs everywhere seems a tad worrying to me.

One more thing, we also have a loyal away fanbase of about 1,000-1,500. If they all got their ticket, there would still be a good 2,000 tickets for the home ST holders and less frequent away travellers to go for.

:top marks

Pretty much exactly where I stand. There doesn't need to be a complicated system - award points for season ticket, walk ups and away attendance. When it comes to an away game/Hampden trip - look at the allocation and determine the cut off point for first wave, then continue accordingly.

[ShinyFantastic]

The fans that go every week are very fortunate - they get to see Hibs and have that day out every week - nice that they can.

A small number of this group seem to think it is their extra 'commitment' or 'loyalty' that means they can go. I'm sure most Hibs fans would also do this if they can but they have to settle for the ones they can get to. A small number would like to see these fans basically blocked form being able to even go to those games because they haven't been as committed as them?

Get a grip and dry your eyes.

[marinello59]

While I can understand the clubs reluctance given the less than smooth experience from last time, my sense from reading reactions online is that there is a pretty strong feeling that we need some kind of loyalty system - the poll on this forum (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318299-Should-Hibs-re-introduce-some-form-of-loyalty-scheme) has more than 80% in favour. I outlined my own thoughts earlier (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318306-Ticket-Office-Shambles&p=4928903&viewfull=1#post4928903).


We need a way to actually check if this is what fans want, and fortunately we have an opportunity. Soon the ballot will be launching to elect the next two fan representatives - can we add on a simple yes/ no question to establish whether the majority want a loyalty system or not? Voting is meant to start soon (6 February) so we might be cutting it a little fine here, but worth exploring I think.


If the answer is yes, then we can start feeding in our ideas, and as I said in a previous post I would really like to see the club share a blueprint in advance so we can make sure the system lands better than the first attempt.


If the answer is no then we can consider the issue settled.


There will be many more games next season where demand outstrips supply, so now is the time to have these conversations. If we don't settle this, we'll certainly be dealing with the same frustrations again.


Cheers,


Charlene

We're voting fans reps. Surely a major requirement of that job will be seeing past the knee jerk reactions to that particular weeks hot topic and getting a more measured view of how the fan base as a whole feels? We'd never be away from the ballot box if we were voting on the most important issue of the day all the time. However if we are going to do that put me down for a Yes to standing areas, cheaper tickets, subsidised travel to games and free pies at half time for everybody with a number in their hibs.net user name.

[Andy74]

Get a grip and dry your eyes.

You've got me there. Why would you think I need my eyes dried?

[MWHIBBIES]

Are we really only going to get half the roseburn for league games? Surely we'll only be giving them half the away end at ER in return?

[ronaldo7]

Are we really only going to get half the roseburn for league games? Surely we'll only be giving them half the away end at ER in return?

Not with their shiny new stand opened.

[Hermit Crab]

I happen to believe loyalty doesn't mean going to away games, there are so many more fans who show their loyalty to the club and contribute WAY more financially to the club than the away fans who btw many struggle to muster so much as a scarf to wear let alone a hibs top.

This isn't a dig at you and I'm sorry I quoted your post :wink:


Right some someone who's got a ST and has been to every game home and away isn't as loyal and doesn't contribute as much financially therefor deserve a ticket for tynecastle or ibrox ahead of someone who's bought a 4 strips from the club shop and maybe a scarf too? Right then.

[Super_JMcGinn]

Right some someone who's got a ST and has been to every game home and away isn't as loyal and doesn't contribute as much financially therefor deserve a ticket for tynecastle or ibrox ahead of someone who's bought a 4 strips from the club shop and maybe a scarf too? Right then.

I don't think ANY season ticket holder deserves any more priority over any other STH when it comes to tickets for ANY game, regardless of how many games you go to.

But if you want to introduce a loyalty scheme then why not give priority to fans who actually contribute most financially to the club whether it be through merchandise HSL buying stones whatever, all of which I've done btw as have many others who don't go to away games.

[greenlex]

I don't think ANY season ticket holder deserves any more priority over any other STH when it comes to tickets for ANY game, regardless of how many games you go to.

But if you want to introduce a loyalty scheme then why not give priority to fans who actually contribute most financially to the club whether it be through merchandise HSL buying stones whatever, all of which I've done btw as have many others who don't go to away games.
What for? They don't go to away games!!!
My tupoenceworth. There should be a system in place and you can call it what you want but I don't think it's unreasonable to give season ticket holders who regularly travel to away games a priority to obtain tickets for away games where demand is greater than supply. I can't understand any fan being against that principle.

[ancient hibee]

All this "loyalty"stuff has a Hunnish Reek.What next banners?Hawkhill Loyal.

[Hermit Crab]

]I don't think ANY season ticket holder deserves any more priority over any other STH when it comes to tickets for ANY game, regardless of how many games you go to.[/B]

But if you want to introduce a loyalty scheme then why not give priority to fans who actually contribute most financially to the club whether it be through merchandise HSL buying stones whatever, all of which I've done btw as have many others who don't go to away games.


Laughable. I'm out.

[marinello59]

Laughable. I'm out.

Time for the party poppers.. :greengrin

[Eyrie]

The fans that go every week are very fortunate - they get to see Hibs and have that day out every week - nice that they can.

A small number of this group seem to think it is their extra 'commitment' or 'loyalty' that means they can go. I'm sure most Hibs fans would also do this if they can but they have to settle for the ones they can get to. A small number would like to see these fans basically blocked form being able to even go to those games because they haven't been as committed as them?

I agree with this logic.

Fans who turn up for one or two home games a season should have as good a chance of getting a scarce ticket as those who shell out for a season ticket and never miss a home game.

That is the point you're making? Or do you think that season ticket holders deserve priority over those who due to circumstances don't have a season ticket, because if so then you're accepting that those who do make the commitment deserve priority and that must then apply to those who attend the most away games having priority over those who rarely do so.

[Billy Whizz]

The fans that go every week are very fortunate - they get to see Hibs and have that day out every week - nice that they can.

A small number of this group seem to think it is their extra 'commitment' or 'loyalty' that means they can go. I'm sure most Hibs fans would also do this if they can but they have to settle for the ones they can get to. A small number would like to see these fans basically blocked form being able to even go to those games because they haven't been as committed as them?

We are fortunate, and I'm glad we do, but don't you think we make a lot of sacrifices to do so. I do practically everything in my remit to be there at KO each week. Some people can't and that's understandable, whether they be at different stages in their life, young family, financial reasons, older parents etc, but Hibs really needs these fans to go and support their team in hail, rain or thunderstorms, so Hibs need to look after them
Do they?
You can't disagree with that can you?
How do they do it, if you don't agree with the LS format

[Iggy Pope]

I assume the call you had with her wasnt what you hoped to hear from her? Can you elaborate? You mentioned you couldnt wait for HSL to get onto the board?

The call will stay between me and her (in fairness, she called me, not the other way around so communication at that level cannot be faulted. I'm just glad someone at Easter Road can use a phone).
I said that I was keen for HSL to get their seat on the board as they'll have the 20% shareholding they need to do so and if an HSL member has a grievance then he or she might therefore have a voice at the table.
Right now, we don't. None of us do, HSL member or otherwise. I doubt very much that the 'fans reps' have much attention paid to them either.

[Andy74]

We are fortunate, and I'm glad we do, but don't you think we make a lot of sacrifices to do so. I do practically everything in my remit to be there at KO each week. Some people can't and that's understandable, whether they be at different stages in their life, young family, financial reasons, older parents etc, but Hibs really needs these fans to go and support their team in hail, rain or thunderstorms, so Hibs need to look after them
Do they?
You can't disagree with that can you?
How do they do it, if you don't agree with the LS format

I get that Billy and I know I see you everywhere Hibs are.

Hibs need season ticket holders too. I'm just a big believer that a basic right of a season ticket holder should be the option to at least try for a ticket for whatever other games you can get to.

Like anything to solve a small problem you have to be careful you don't make bigger unintended ones. Regulars not getting tickets is very rare. There is also an away ticket scheme.

I base my views on that basic premise and did so when doing alright under the points too.

[Billy Whizz]

I get that Billy and I know I see you everywhere Hibs are.

Hibs need season ticket holders too. I'm just a big believer that a basic right of a season ticket holder should be the option to at least try for a ticket for whatever other games you can get to.

Like anything to solve a small problem you have to be careful you don't make bigger unintended ones. Regulars not getting tickets is very rare. There is also an away ticket scheme.

I base my views on that basic premise and did so when doing alright under the points too.

Great post Andy, and I respect your point of view. The away ticket scheme I'm in, but it has its limitations, in my situation I go with fans who aren't in it, ends up with us not sitting together.
Loyalty scheme was better
All in my opinion of course

[HH81]

Anyone think the away season ticket will still be in force next year?

[Iggy Pope]

Anyone think the away season ticket will still be in force next year?

175 sold this year......

[stoneyburn hibs]

Not read the previous posts. Some sort of loyalty points system should be invoked for games like the PBS. I've only been to one away game this season but why should new season ticket holders have the same right as me ? It really is unfair.

[Carheenlea]

Anyone think the away season ticket will still be in force next year?


175 sold this year......

I spend about 5 weeks of the year in Ireland, so inevitably miss some games in that time. I'm happy to buy a ST as that's your contribution to the club, and if you are not able to attend for whatever reason, the club doesn't lose out. The reason I didn't sign up for the away ST was simply because if you miss a couple of away games, then not only are you out of pocket, but the money isn't going to the benefit of Hibs either.
I'm sure there are many who didn't fancy the away ST for this reason, and the take-up number sort of confirms that the away ST has not been a popular one amongst the majority of the regular travelling supporters.

[PompeyHibs]

Trouble with a ballot is you can end up on your own with no family or mates

Im not saying the ballot is the way forward but hey if im on my own and i see another 3,299 Hibees walking down the road i think im safe and i would say im with friends 🍻