Should Hibs re-introduce some form of loyalty scheme?

[hibs0666]

Simple question.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This debate won't end well. I'm keeping oota it :greengrin

[hibs0666]

This debate won't end well. I'm keeping oota it :greengrin

My bet is that people will vote overwhelmingly for a loyalty system of some form. We'll soon see. :wink:

[calumhibee1]

Absolutely and it was a bad decision to get rid of it in the first place. I actually missed out on Tynecastle last season due to being literally one point or so (maybe it was one match worth of points) below the threshold and even though it would mean I'd have probably missed the threshold again for this game I still think it needs to be brought back. However, as I'm eligible, fingers crossed I get tickets. :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

This debate won't end well. I'm keeping oota it :greengrin

Ditto, well known for arguing on loyalty points, it was deemed divisive. LD scrapped it, she won't re-implement it in my opinion

[Colr]

Rangers seem to have a loyalty scheme.

[Smartie]

I thought the loyalty point system was fine.

It was imperfect, but you can't always suit everyone.

Whatever Hibs do, they'll be criticised for it.

[ManBearPig]

The one before was fine just some people got uppity when couldn't get tickets. You'll never please everyone.

[HibeeMassive]

There should be a loyalty points system, absolutely. But the club will never appease all of the fans all of the time, and I think too often they back off when there's the slightest bit criticism.

The one we implemented was not far off - barring the HSL points debacle - imo and we could have just tweaked that instead of doing away with it.

[southern hibby]

Just posted in another forum in Hibs Net. That if people
Feel strongly enough to get points system re-instated they should phone /e-mail Hibs and pester fans reps about it. I personally think it was a great scheme that made sure folk didn't have to queue all night like last night.

I'm 100% all in favour of re-instating loyalty points.

GGTTH

[Baldy Foghorn]

Just posted in another forum in here. That if people
Feel strongly enough to get points system re-instated they should phone /e-mail Hibs and pester fans reps about it. I personally think it was a great scheme that made sure folk didn't have to queue all night like last night.

I'm 100% all in favour of re-instating loyalty points.

GGTTH

If was scrapped with fans reps in situ. LD made the decision

[Andy74]

The one before was fine just some people got uppity when couldn't get tickets. You'll never please everyone.

Complaints were rarely about not getting tickets, if at all. It was just more hassle than it was worth because those that wanted tickets could generally get them.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Yes. Back to the previous system but change the name to 'Attendance Points' so people can't start twisting the word 'loyalty' to suit themselves.

If people want points for buying items from the club store, subscribing to Hibs TV or joining HSL then by all means give them priority or offers for those things but leave the priority tickets to those who actually go to the games

[Stantons Angel]

I thought the loyalty point system was fine.

It was imperfect, but you can't always suit everyone.

Whatever Hibs do, they'll be criticised for it.

So true!

If you went to games you got the points, if you didn't you got none.

As you say tho you cant please everyone.

[southern hibby]

If was scrapped with fans reps in situ. LD made the decision

I know that but if we pester fans rep enough and we show Hibs by e-mails phone calls we want it back then maybe LD will change her mind.

GGTTH

[21.05.2016]

I thought the loyalty point system was fine.

It was imperfect, but you can't always suit everyone.

Whatever Hibs do, they'll be criticised for it.

This.

[Radium]

The club don't care.

As much as I agree with a loyalty point system, the club will be announcing a sell out this afternoon for the cost of printing some vouchers. They will still get the same money and when complaints come in will point to how well the queue worked and that there was never going to be enough tickets.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big_Franck]

Absolutely. The problem with the previous system was that they never implemented enough points bands. Often it was one band for season ticket holders and one band for everyone else, regardless of whether you paid for single games 6 - 10 games a year or had been once in the last 3 seasons, and that wasn't right. It defeated the whole purpose of having a loyalty points system.

[My_Wife_Camille]

The club don't care.

As much as I agree with a loyalty point system, the club will be announcing a sell out this afternoon for the cost of printing some vouchers. They will still get the same money and when complaints come in will point to how well the queue worked and that there was never going to be enough tickets.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The vouchers were printed 15+ years ago

[Big_Franck]

The one before was fine just some people got uppity when couldn't get tickets. You'll never please everyone.

I don't think it was. The banding of everyone with 1 loyalty point up to about 100 loyalty points in the same group was wrong. It meant that someone that went to a game three years ago because they were dragged along by a mate was in the same priority group as those that can't get a ST for various reasons but who attend maybe 6 to 10 games a year. That was blatantly unfair.

And before someone says it, of course having hundreds of different priority groups would be unworkable, but the system before was over simplified and grouped fans in to ST holders and every other man and his dug in the same group, which wasn't fair IMO.

Having said all that I won't care less if I get a ticket at 12. If I don't i'll be raging and it'll all be Dempster's fault :greengrin

[Radium]

The vouchers were printed 15+ years ago

Even more cost effective/ environmentally friendly [emoji108]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WS Hibs]

Yes, but with some caveats.

1) No HSL points - confused the whole thing last time.

2) Increase the points for fans who go to away games - in my opinion following Hibs across Scotland = loyalty.

3) Widen the tranches - make a distinction between fans who have 100 points and 1, since there are distinctions made between 270 and 259.

4) Don't give in to criticism - when they scrapped this they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Alex Trager]

I can't vote as I am on my phone but yes.

I think the system was a good idea.

It was implemented in a flaky manner and they continually changed the thresholds which resulted in an annoyance

[Ross4356]

As someone who has been to one game this season and has a season ticket holder friend who does not fancy the game plus another friend who is happy to queue up over night meaning I have secured a ticket for next Sunday.

I 100% think they should re-introduce it.

[hibby6270]

Had no problem with the scheme that was scrapped tbh.

All that was needed was refining the points allocation to ensure those with most points were in with a better chance of getting tickets for games that needed the points system to be used.
OK - there may be times when getting a ticket (like today for the Hertz game) wouldn't be 100% guaranteed but that's always going to be the case where supply can't meet the demand. When you step back and think about it, this is a great position for us to be in.

The introduction of the Away ST was a great idea for those committed loyal fans who do turn up home and away every week. Points allocated to them would pretty much guarantee them to be at the head of the queue when away cup tie games are on sale. That's fair enough in my eyes.

Nobody should have cause for complaint if those who are both Home and Away ST holders get first dibs at buying tickets. Second in line should be Home ST holders (I'm in that category) and anyone with a bit of common sense must surely realise that when tickets are limited, even being a Home ST holder isn't going to guarantee anything apart form home games obviously. Only exception is likely to be for Cup Semis and Finals where every ST holder will or can get a ticket if they want one.

When there is less tickets available than demand meets, if it sells out and you miss out, not much you can do. It's a fact of life.

[hibs0666]

I'll let the poll run for a wee while longer. On the back of the result I will speak with Frank and Amit to see how this issue can best be addressed by the board. I will also feed back the outcome of the discussion.

[BH Hibs]

I voted yes and hardly go to any away games. If I couldn't get a ticket for a game because I didn't have enough points then fair enough. One thing I would say the scheme should be for attending games only not for HSL or items in club shop etc IMHO. Not quite sure how you solve the problem that arises if we get to the cup final and the club wants to push ST sales by offering a guaranteed ticket with it to maximise income.

[HappyHanlon]

Yes, it has to be brought back.

Looking like the cup final fans have come out the woodwork again.

[jeffers]

I doubt they will re-implement one, as someone else pointed out they can sell the tickets no bother just by giving season ticket holders (and away ones too) first dibs. I thought by and large the system that was scrapped was pretty fair. If you went to games you accrued points. I had enough points last season to allow me to buy a ticket for the cup game last season at Tynecastle - if I hadn't accrued enough points then I had no problem in accepting that, it just meant others had attended more games than me and rightly had priority in games where the ticket demand was high.

The problem imo was you had some fans who having bought a season ticket and had attended no, or very few away games felt they should have as much priority to get a ticket at Tynecastle as someone who attended most, if not all away games. When they were then threatening not to renew their season tickets for the following season I can see why Hibs acted as they did.

[Andy74]

Yes, it has to be brought back.

Looking like the cup final fans have come out the woodwork again.

Rubbish. There are 11,000 plus season ticket holders and all are entitled to a shout for a ticket when they want to try for one. This is how ticketing has worked for some time and there is a scheme in place for those to buy all away tickets in advance if they want them.

[Seveno]

Had no problem with the scheme that was scrapped tbh.

All that was needed was refining the points allocation to ensure those with most points were in with a better chance of getting tickets for games that needed the points system to be used.
OK - there may be times when getting a ticket (like today for the Hertz game) wouldn't be 100% guaranteed but that's always going to be the case where supply can't meet the demand. When you step back and think about it, this is a great position for us to be in.

The introduction of the Away ST was a great idea for those committed loyal fans who do turn up home and away every week. Points allocated to them would pretty much guarantee them to be at the head of the queue when away cup tie games are on sale. That's fair enough in my eyes.

Nobody should have cause for complaint if those who are both Home and Away ST holders get first dibs at buying tickets. Second in line should be Home ST holders (I'm in that category) and anyone with a bit of common sense must surely realise that when tickets are limited, even being a Home ST holder isn't going to guarantee anything apart form home games obviously. Only exception is likely to be for Cup Semis and Finals where every ST holder will or can get a ticket if they want one.

When there is less tickets available than demand meets, if it sells out and you miss out, not much you can do. It's a fact of life.

Agreed.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Yes, it has to be brought back.

Looking like the cup final fans have come out the woodwork again.

11500 season ticket holders vying for just over 3000 tickets for a massive game is cup final fans coming out the woodwork?

[Iggy Pope]

If was scrapped with fans reps in situ. LD made the decision

I've missed out on Hertz tickets and had close to max on Loyalty Points. They're still on my ****ing profile.
Dempster and the fans reps need shot for this. I haven't missed a Hibs tie in the Scottish since 1981. That's that wee personal best well and truly scuppered.

[puff the dragon]

No - all home season tickets are equal.

Away support only provides benefit to other clubs.

Somebody who buys a home season ticket and never goes to an away game contributes the same as somebody who buys a home season ticket and goes to all away games.

[davhibby]

No - all home season tickets are equal.

Away support only provides benefit to other clubs.

Somebody who buys a home season ticket and never goes to an away game contributes the same as somebody who buys a home season ticket and goes to all away games.
It's nothing to do with that though, people who spend their time and money to go and watch hibs regularly home and away should be able to be rewarded for that by getting first dibs on tickets for the biggest games

[jeffers]

It's nothing to do with that though, people who spend their time and money to go and watch hibs regularly home and away should be able to be rewarded for that by getting first dibs on tickets for the biggest games

Absolutely and as for the comment that away support only benefits other clubs, what about the backing they give our team ?

[Blaster]

It should be and kept basic

Season ticket holder 200 points
Then add 10 points for any first team fixture you attend not covered by the season tickets

Non season ticket holders get 10 points per first team fixture purchased

[hibs0666]

No - all home season tickets are equal.

Away support only provides benefit to other clubs.

Somebody who buys a home season ticket and never goes to an away game contributes the same as somebody who buys a home season ticket and goes to all away games.

It's a loyalty scheme, not a contribution scheme so your point is not relevant.

[Since90+2]

The decision makers at the club will look abit daft reinstating a system they decided to scrap only a few months ago.

[puff the dragon]

It's nothing to do with that though, people who spend their time and money to go and watch hibs regularly home and away should be able to be rewarded for that by getting first dibs on tickets for the biggest games

Which is a valid argument and one you'd expect from someone in that boat.

However mine is also valid -A season ticket is a season ticket and overall tangible commitment to Hibs is the same.

Creating 'levels' of Hibs fan and how loyal they are will only create more issues than they solve - therefore the free for all approach is the least noisy.

[puff the dragon]

It's a loyalty scheme, not a contribution scheme so your point is not relevant.

And your making the point for me - my point is apparently not relevant because I'm not as 'loyal'. These schemes will create more issues than they resolve. A caste system of Hibs fans.

[jeffers]

Which is a valid argument and one you'd expect from someone in that boat.

However mine is also valid -A season ticket is a season ticket and overall tangible commitment to Hibs is the same.

Creating 'levels' of Hibs fan and how loyal they are will only create more issues than they solve - therefore the free for all approach is the least noisy.

No it's not the same commitment. Two fans with season tickets, one who attends away games, one who doesn't are not showing the same levels of commitment.

[KeithTheHibby]

There are more fans attending. Attendances are up 60% therefore there should be some kind of loyalty for those attending most games.

[Andy74]

It's a loyalty scheme, not a contribution scheme so your point is not relevant.

It wasn't really that either though was it because you could have paid at an away gate any not received anything.

Too many issues and its correct to go back to season ticket holders being equal.

For those that want to buy the away tickets every week there is an option for that too.

[Andy74]

No it's not the same commitment. Two fans with season tickets, one who attends away games, one who doesn't are not showing the same levels of commitment.

These types of comments illustrate why it was such a bad idea.

[Baldy Foghorn]

The decision makers at the club will look abit daft reinstating a system they decided to scrap only a few months ago.

Correct

[hibs0666]

And your making the point for me - my point is apparently not relevant because I'm not as 'loyal'. These schemes will create more issues than they resolve. A caste system of Hibs fans.

Nope. over 80% of the poll have opined that the current situation needs to be changed. You are in a small minority it seems.

[lord bunberry]

No for me. If you want to be guaranteed a ticket sign up for the away season ticket.

[jeffers]

These types of comments illustrate why it was such a bad idea.

What's that supposed to mean ?

[puff the dragon]

These types of comments illustrate why it was such a bad idea.

Spot on Andy - it's all a bit Tartan Army and my hat feather is bigger than yours.

[hibs0666]

It wasn't really that either though was it because you could have paid at an away gate any not received anything.

Too many issues and its correct to go back to season ticket holders being equal.

For those that want to buy the away tickets every week there is an option for that too.

Whataboutery like this killed off a perfectly reasonable scheme. The practical reality of no loyalty scheme and a large fanbase is now becoming apparent. It is no surprise to see that oiver 80% of voters believe that a loyalty scheme is needed.

[KeithTheHibby]

Is it fair, that a fair weather fan who attends when they can be arsed, attain a season ticket client number, who has minimum loyalty points, gets a ticket for the cup tie before someone who attends home and away and would have racked up several more loyalty points?
Of course it isn't however that is what happened this morning on several occasions I am willing to bet.

Having a loyalty scheme may be divisive however I don't see anything wrong with this when you are dealing with fans who are more loyal than others.

[southern hibby]

No - all home season tickets are equal.

Away support only provides benefit to other clubs.

Somebody who buys a home season ticket and never goes to an away game contributes the same as somebody who buys a home season ticket and goes to all away games.

Sorry but again Puff, have to disagree. We support the team away from home and the more points we achieve the higher our placing sat end of season the higher our payout from SFA, further we go in the cups more money generated so really don't know how you can come to your conclusion.

GGTTH

[KeithTheHibby]

The decision makers at the club will look abit daft reinstating a system they decided to scrap only a few months ago.

Why? Crowds are up 60% therefore something has to change.

[puff the dragon]

Whataboutery like this killed off a perfectly reasonable scheme. The practical reality of no loyalty scheme and a large fanbase is now becoming apparent. It is no surprise to see that oiver 80% of voters believe that a loyalty scheme is needed.

80% of poeple who contribute on message boards. Message board contributers will generally be those who go to the most games so will sway in favour of this over others.

I've only logged in today rather than just a quick viewing because it made me today - there are thousands of others like me who go to all home games and see that as a valid contribution.

[jeffers]

Spot on Andy - it's all a bit Tartan Army and my hat feather is bigger than yours.

I don't see anybody acting that way. My point was if there are two season ticket holders and one regularly attends away games then they should get priority over the one who doesn't. I'm making no judgement on why they don't attend away games as everyone's circumstances are different.

[puff the dragon]

Sorry but again Puff, have to disagree. We support the team away from home and the more points we achieve the higher our placing sat end of season the higher our payout from SFA, further we go in the cups more money generated so really don't know how you can come to your conclusion.

GGTTH

And it is a valid point SH, however it does not invalidate mine.

It's not an easy one for the club and I think they have the best solution with an Away Season ticket option and then a free for all among ST holders.

[660]

It's bizarre that the simple concept of the people most likely to attend an away match get priority for away tickets causes offence to some season ticket holders.

[pacoluna]

I've missed out on Hertz tickets and had close to max on Loyalty Points. They're still on my ****ing profile.
Dempster and the fans reps need shot for this. I haven't missed a Hibs tie in the Scottish since 1981. That's that wee personal best well and truly scuppered.
I agree with you however can I ask why u never purchased an away season ticket? same question to others who had near to max loyalty points.

[jeffers]

It's bizarre that the simple concept of the people most likely to attend an away match get priority for away tickets causes offence to some season ticket holders.

:agree:

[davhibby]

Hearts and Aberdeen both have loyalty points systems that seem to be simple and they work just fine, don't understand how hibs didn't manage this

[HibsNutter]

It was fine, it allowed people who go to the most games the chance to get priority for big games. Bring it back ASAP. Now people are waiting for ten hours outside the office to get tickets, it's so unnecessary.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's bizarre that the simple concept of the people most likely to attend an away match get priority for away tickets causes offence to some season ticket holders.

I think this nails it. I'll leave it at that.

[hibs0666]

80% of poeple who contribute on message boards. Message board contributers will generally be those who go to the most games so will sway in favour of this over others.

I've only logged in today rather than just a quick viewing because it made me today - there are thousands of others like me who go to all home games and see that as a valid contribution.

You can only express an opinion on your own behalf. Your view on other people's opinion are irrelevant until you canvas their opinion.

[MartinfaePorty]

So an additional question for those who voted 'No', is this because you are happy with the status quo or that a loyalty scheme isn't the best way to go?

In some respects we are already running a 2-tier system: if you are a season ticket holder who is able to queue up in person or has a mate/family member who can do it for you, then you have that option, plus a 2nd chance, for you/a mate to try for a ticket online. In order to queue for tickets I'd have to give up a half-day and don't know anyone of our group of season ticket holders who could go to ER in person. In my opinion, if we don't go back to some sort of loyalty scheme it should be all tickets online, to give everyone the same chance. I've now given up ever trying for tickets for Tynie, as don't have the luxury, outwith my lunch hour, of hanging on the work internet to wait for my turn in the queue. (Edit) I should say that if all tickets were made available online I would try and find a mate to go online for me, as there would be a greater chance than the 50/50 split system we have now.

[Baw187]

Yes

[southern hibby]

80% of poeple who contribute on message boards. Message board contributers will generally be those who go to the most games so will sway in favour of this over others.

I've only logged in today rather than just a quick viewing because it made me today - there are thousands of others like me who go to all home games and see that as a valid contribution.

Puff, it is a very valid contribution and because you went and got a season ticket you got points for this so in no way we're you or any other season ticket holder unfairly treated, but rewarded.

GGTTH

[percy veer]

IMO the away season ticket is a great idea, perhaps tweaking this to allow say you can miss 2 games and give up your ticket and be refunded your cash.

[Hibs90]

They should but then folk will just complain about that aswell

[Baldy Foghorn]

I was I would say, keen on loyalty points system, many people slated me for it, however, it was fair imo

[puff the dragon]

You can only express an opinion on your own behalf. Your view on other people's opinion are irrelevant until you canvas their opinion.

But on the other side you are taking the opinion of 120 people (current) who say reintroduce as a basis for support to reimplement despite ST numbers being 11,000+.

It's like the Trump arguments just now, sure 1 million people signed the petition - but 59 million didn't.

The feedback from the less vocal supporters will be the rationale behind no loyalty point scheme.

[puff the dragon]

So an additional question for those who voted 'No', is this because you are happy with the status quo or that a loyalty scheme isn't the best way to go?

In some respects we are already running a 2-tier system: if you are a season ticket holder who is able to queue up in person or has a mate/family member who can do it for you, then you have that option, plus a 2nd chance, for you/a mate to try for a ticket online. In order to queue for tickets I'd have to give up a half-day and don't know anyone of our group of season ticket holders who could got to ER in person. In my opinion, if we don't go back to some sort of loyalty scheme it should be all tickets online, to give everyone the same chance. I've now given up ever trying for tickets for Tynie, as don't have the luxury, outwith my lunch hour, of hanging on the work internet to wait for my turn in the queue. (Edit) I should say that if all tickets were made available online I would try and find a mate to go online for me, as there would be a greater chance than the 50/50 split system we have now.

You have a good point with the availability to queue etc. A ballot would be the only fair process, but implementing would be a logistical headache.

[marinello59]

We have 11000 season ticket holders. Telling over 7000 of the people who invest a large sum of money in to our club every year that they had absolutely no chance of a ticket for this game would be foolhardy to say the least.
When we are back in the top league playing four Derbies a season this situation won't arise, most Derby matches when we are in the same league sell at a pretty slow pace over several days. The loyalty scheme was scrapped with good reason.

[lord bunberry]

So an additional question for those who voted 'No', is this because you are happy with the status quo or that a loyalty scheme isn't the best way to go?

In some respects we are already running a 2-tier system: if you are a season ticket holder who is able to queue up in person or has a mate/family member who can do it for you, then you have that option, plus a 2nd chance, for you/a mate to try for a ticket online. In order to queue for tickets I'd have to give up a half-day and don't know anyone of our group of season ticket holders who could got to ER in person. In my opinion, if we don't go back to some sort of loyalty scheme it should be all tickets online, to give everyone the same chance. I've now given up ever trying for tickets for Tynie, as don't have the luxury, outwith my lunch hour, of hanging on the work internet to wait for my turn in the queue.
I voted no as I'm happy with the status quo. I won't be going to the cup game, I'll just have to accept that. If I wanted to be guaranteed a ticket I would've signed up for the away season ticket.
Im not against a loyalty scheme, but the one we had was far too complicated.

[southern hibby]

I was I would say, keen on loyalty points system, many people slated me for it, however, it was fair imo

BF, I salute you. A fan who tried to implement a solution for a problem he seen happening before it did. To then have solution taken away so we have fans queueing up over night in February. You must feel gutted about the whole scenario.

GGTTH

[kaimendhibs]

I agree with you however can I ask why u never purchased an away season ticket? same question to others who had near to max loyalty points.
The reason i didnt is i couldnt get an answer as to how i could be sitting with my mates. Then the scheme finished

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Baldy Foghorn]

BF, I salute you. A fan who tried to implement a solution for a problem he seen happening before it did. To then have solution taken away so we have fans queueing up over night in February. You must feel gutted about the whole scenario.

GGTTH

Yes, and hearing of regular travellers missing out is even more gutting

[Andy74]

You have a good point with the availability to queue etc. A ballot would be the only fair process, but implementing would be a logistical headache.

It's a good point on queuing and it was similar with the way loyalty points were allocated for away games if you were able to purchase from Hibs in advance.

If we really are going to use words like loyalty and commitment and use these to measure how deserving a fan you are then you need to be able to take all other factors like location and other commitments out of it.

The time honoured way of showing your immediate commitment to Hibs that take a lot of that out is buying a season ticket.

Even then that favours folk that might have cash up front, so payment plans were brought in.

We then brought in a loyalty scheme that on the face of it at launch was helping to bridge that gap between people that could buy season tickets and those that still pitched up as often as they could but couldn't buy up front.

For me the whole thing fell down when instead it became about who was most loyal and committed and who was able to buy the most away tickets.

For those reason and the practical issues and time it took to administer it was well worth scrapping it.

[MartinfaePorty]

There was a ballot for the Falkirk Scottish Cup Qtr Final in 2006 and, I think, for a League Cup tie against Albion Rovers some years before. Both of which I lost out on! So, it has been done before, but that was in the days of terracing, so it didn't matter about families/mates sitting together. Not sure how the contract works with Ticket Master, but we wouldn't need their involvement, as people would simply be emailed and have a deadline for which to pay for and pick up tickets direct from Hibs. Any that missed the deadline would go to a waiting list.

PS I'm not advocating this, just suggesting how it might work.

[hibs0666]

We have 11000 season ticket holders. Telling over 7000 of the people who invest a large sum of money in to our club every year that they had absolutely no chance of a ticket for this game would be foolhardy to say the least.
When we are back in the top league playing four Derbies a season this situation won't arise, most Derby matches when we are in the same league sell at a pretty slow pace over several days. The loyalty scheme was scrapped with good reason.

But the reality is that most people did have little to no chance of getting a ticket because there are 1,500 or so people like that are prepared to go way beyond the call of duty to get tickets for games like this. So nothing much has fundamentally changed, and people like me will end up with most of the tickets. All that removal of the loyalty scheme has done is forced people like me to go back 25 years in time in the way we queue for tickets.

[lord bunberry]

We have 11000 season ticket holders. Telling over 7000 of the people who invest a large sum of money in to our club every year that they had absolutely no chance of a ticket for this game would be foolhardy to say the least.
When we are back in the top league playing four Derbies a season this situation won't arise, most Derby matches when we are in the same league sell at a pretty slow pace over several days. The loyalty scheme was scrapped with good reason.
I agree. If your season ticket doesn't even give you a chance of getting a ticket for a big game then people might not bother with it. If we ever get to a stage where a season ticket is a necessity to get a seat for home games, then a loyalty points system would be needed.

[Hiber-nation]

The loyalty points system was too good to be true for Hibs. I still don't believe that the reason they ditched it was down to fan representation. It was hugely popular.

[southern hibby]

Ok I'll throw an idea into the pot, can't we introduce that official supporters buses get X amount of tickets for away fans say 25 each that way if any regular fans on bus doesn't manage to get a ticket they then have a chance through their affiliated bus. If all regular away attendees get a ticket then tickets can be handed back to Hibs.

Certain Folk will probably think this is unfair too and that's fair enough but we do need a system that allows regular away attendees to get a ticket. Well in my opinion we do.

GGTTH

[Hiber-nation]

Ok I'll throw an idea into the pot, can't we introduce that official supporters buses get X amount of tickets for away fans say 25 each that way if any regular fans on bus doesn't manage to get a ticket they then have a chance through their affiliated bus. If all regular away attendees get a ticket then tickets can be handed back to Hibs.

Certain Folk will probably think this is unfair too and that's fair enough but we do need a system that allows regular away attendees to get a ticket. Well in my opinion we do.

GGTTH

Sorry but I think that is totally unfair. Why should it be decided on the method of travel? Why should someone who chooses to go on a supporters bus have priority over someone like me who travels by car?

[Ken]

Loyalty System

Notice sent out as soon as possible to all fans on the database of the re-introduction of the Loyalty System for this to start from next season (c. 6 months notice before the 1st game)

Points awarded

Home Season Ticket - 50 points
Away Season Ticket (if available) - 25 points
Home Match (non season ticket holders or cup games) - 2 points
Away Match - 1 point (non season ticket holders or cup games)

Total allocation for away games should equal the number of supporters with x points in order to guarantee those with enough points 1 ticket. Any unsold tickets would then go on sale to all remaining ST holders.

No loyalty points for share, previous years season tickets and all point cleared at the end of the season

[660]

Sorry but I think that is totally unfair. Why should it be decided on the method of travel? Why should someone who chooses to go on a supporters bus have priority over someone like me who travels by car?

I have a solution. They should allocate points to each person who attends away games to ascertain their likelihood of attending and allocate away tickets to those people no matter what method of travel they use.

[The Captain....]

Ditto, well known for arguing on loyalty points, it was deemed divisive. LD scrapped it, she won't re-implement it in my opinion

Her intransigence and inflexibility on this issue does her no favours. I wasn't as vociferous as some on the Loyalty Points Scheme being scrapped but Im willing to bet there are thousands like me who are season ticket holders, maybe get to between half a dozen and ten away games a season and know they would likely still miss out on first tranche of ticket sales but are in favour of a scheme returning. Any re-introduction should reward regular attenders home and away, contributions to share schemes and money spent in shop etc is irrelevant imo. Make sure your most loyal supporters in terms of attending games are taken care of first. Its that simple.

Other clubs seem to be able to run schemes with a minimum of fuss...its disappointing the club point blank refuses to engage on this.

[southern hibby]

Sorry but I think that is totally unfair. Why should it be decided on the method of travel? Why should someone who chooses to go on a supporters bus have priority over someone like me who travels by car?

Not saying it is fair, saying it helps away regulars get a ticket. If nothing else this fiasco with the hearts game proves something needs done to help regular away supporters. This is just one option to help this getting achieved.

GGTTH

[Danderhall Hibs]

Presumably the fans reps were consulted prior to the loyalty points being scrapped? I'd have thought this was a great example of a topic where they could gather views and put them to the board?

Can either of them let us know what the process was?

[Andy74]

Not saying it is fair, saying it helps away regulars get a ticket. If nothing else this fiasco with the hearts game proves something needs done to help regular away supporters. This is just one option to help this getting achieved.

GGTTH

Regular away supporters can buy tickets in advance for all games.

I was fine under the loyalty points but for big games like this season ticket holders on the whole need to be able to be in with a shout otherwise you take away too much from that offering, which ultimately is more important to us.

[southern hibby]

Regular away supporters can buy tickets in advance for all games.

I was fine under the loyalty points but for big games like this season ticket holders on the whole need to be able to be in with a shout otherwise you take away too much from that offering, which ultimately is more important to us.

Sorry Andy but maybe I'm missing your point but your saying regular away Fans can buy for all away games, how come this games caused away fans who go to most of the games problems then? Or am I picking up your point incorrectly?


GGTTH

[A Hi-Bee]

The laws of supply and demand dictate that in games such as this there will be supporters who miss out, just a fact of life, if you want loyalty go buy a Dug, I have been watching the team for more than 50 years now and sometimes missed out on tickets sometimes not, I do happen to think that supporters who went to the previous 2 games home or away should on production of the tickets be entitled to preferential treatment when it comes down to getting tickets, would that be so difficult to implement.

Even the word (loyal) winds me up and smacks of something else, we are Hibs supporters.

[WS Hibs]

No - all home season tickets are equal.

Away support only provides benefit to other clubs.

Somebody who buys a home season ticket and never goes to an away game contributes the same as somebody who buys a home season ticket and goes to all away games.

Fans who travel to away games and back the team probably earn us a handful of points in the league every season. Furthermore, it seems quite reasonable to me that anyone who attends almost every away game should get priority for Hearts AWAY over fans who only go to the home games.

[WS Hibs]

These types of comments illustrate why it was such a bad idea.

But he's absolutely right to say it?

[Kaff]

We're sitting with a record(?) number of season ticket holders and if we're to grow on the back of that then we have to have systems in place to encourage it.
No system will be perfect but someone's earlier idea to call it an 'Attendance Scheme' and drop the word loyalty is spot on, everyone considers themselves loyal to one extent or the other and its very emotive but just prioritise ticket eligibilty on previous attendance/purchase (ST) and it should help matters imo.

Perhaps this has happened at the ideal time with the Fans Rep elections and can be something that we not only want the succesful candidates to raise at board level but to provide feedback on an ongoing basis?

[Andy74]

But he's absolutely right to say it?

Is he - can commitment be measured like that?

[660]

Is he - can commitment be measured like that?

Yes

[Pretty Boy]

After queuing for 10 hours today then it's a resounding yes from me.

Ridiculous we have people canping out overnight and an online system struggling to cope yet again in this day and age. Some sort of staggered system would help massively.

[jeffers]

Is he - can commitment be measured like that?

What word would you use then ? I'm not intending getting into an uber fan debate or questioning anybody's loyalty to the club. But I am saying if you have a supporter who only goes to home games and one who goes home and away isn't the one who attends both showing more commitment ?

[Andy74]

What word would you use then ? I'm not intending getting into an uber fan debate or questioning anybody's loyalty to the club. But I am saying if you have a supporter who only goes to home games and one who goes home and away isn't the one who attends both showing more commitment ?

It simply means they have been able to attend more games, nothing more or less than that.

I'm sure many people who would consider themselves to be highly committed have lots of reasons why going to every game is not possible.

I'm sure lots of sacrifices are made by many of those who travel all the time. I'm sure lots of sacrifices are made by those who buy season tickets.

I don't think it is helpful to start labelling or judging people based on factors we know very little about.

[A Hi-Bee]

What word would you use then ? I'm not intending getting into an uber fan debate or questioning anybody's loyalty to the club. But I am saying if you have a supporter who only goes to home games and one who goes home and away isn't the one who attends both showing more commitment ?

Your a supporter or your no a supporter and it takes all shapes and forms, always thought the "Commitments" was some sort of made up band who sang old songs.

A Hibs supporter is a Hibs supporter, if they were not then they would be supporting some other team.

Supply and demand means that some will be unlucky and some will be lucky, Happen to think that I wid rather have demand outstripping supply than the other way around.

[Hiber-nation]

Fans who travel to away games and back the team probably earn us a handful of points in the league every season. Furthermore, it seems quite reasonable to me that anyone who attends almost every away game should get priority for Hearts AWAY over fans who only go to the home games.

It's as simple as that. I just don't get any arguments against it.

[WS Hibs]

Is he - can commitment be measured like that?

Take the words home and away out of the equation for a second.

Hibs play probably 40-45 competitive games a season.

If Fan A goes to 45 and Fan B goes to 20, Fan A is a more committed fan over the course of that season and deserves priority for a ticket to the hypothetical game 46.

[jeffers]

It simply means they have been able to attend more games, nothing more or less than that.

I'm sure many people who would consider themselves to be highly committed have lots of reasons why going to every game is not possible.

I'm sure lots of sacrifices are made by many of those who travel all the time. I'm sure lots of sacrifices are made by those who buy season tickets.

I don't think it is helpful to start labelling or judging people based on factors we know very little about.

And by attending more away games should be given priority over someone who rarely if ever attends any.

I'm neither labelling nor judging anyone and I think we are getting hung up on the use of a word. My circumstances have changed recently, so from having attended all the games home and away earlier in the season I can only attend the home games. But the bottom line is I'm able to make less commitment to supporting Hibs than say guys like Hermit Crab and Baldy Foghorn.

[Craig_HFC]

Definitely should be brought back. It worked really well and, apart from the HSL points, I thought it was as fair as any system could be.

The points are designed to give you priority for away games so are really 'attendance points' more than anything.


It should be kept simple; 1 point for a home game & 2 points for an away game.


Folk who buy ST's by a certain date maybe get 20 points (18/19 points per home game plus a bonus 1/2 points for buying an early bird ST).

[Pretty Boy]

It's as simple as that. I just don't get any arguments against it.

Exactly.

Next season there is likely to be 3 or 4 games where allocation exceeds supply. With a bit thought you could ensure the 4-500 regular away travellers are catered for without greatly devaluing a ST.

[WS Hibs]

Would also like to point out that I'm not having a go at people who can't/don't make as many games. I just think people who go to the most games (usually when a lot of other people turn their nose up at going) should get priority to the most sought after games.

[Hibeewilly]

Exactly.

Next season there is likely to be 3 or 4 games where allocation exceeds supply. With a bit thought you could ensure the 4-500 regular away travellers are catered for without greatly devaluing a ST.
That's absolutely correct but is probably too sensible for Hibs. I think however as somebody who attends all the away games that the regular travellers figure is probably a bit in excess of 400-500 this year PB. In essence a simple system in this day and age can surely be devised so regular away supporters can get tickets. I know of a number of diehards who attend every game and have done for years that didn't manage to get a ticket. That's just not right

[BSEJVT]

An old argument but its absolutely clear to me that those that go most should get first dibs on tickets

I wouldn't get one under that scenario but I cant see how it would be unfair to those that didn't.

Structuring the Loyalty points thing properly is key.

Season Tickets

Match Tickets

Entitlement to 2 ticket's only

I never got the argument that club shop spend or anything else should be included

Other than my scarf and DVD's books etc I don't buy a thing from the club shop as I don't like their offering / cant afford to

My system rewards people who go and support the team.

I get that its unfair to those that don't / cant travel or out of country supporters, but if they can travel to the game they are seeking to get to then its a choice not to travel to others.

They would only really be impacted for games like this not Cup Finals.

Maybe a set portion of Cup Final tickets could be allocated to "country member" fans who lived outwith a certain distance and who contributed to a certain type of membership scheme created for them

[bigwheel]

100% yes to this...and I'm one who luckily managed to secure a ticket today... earning points by going and supporting your team is a perfect way to make fair the allocation of tickets.

[marinello59]

Exactly.

Next season there is likely to be 3 or 4 games where allocation exceeds supply. With a bit thought you could ensure the 4-500 regular away travellers are catered for without greatly devaluing a ST.

I doubt that there will be any games at all where supply exceeds demand to the extent it did today. It's special circumstances, the only Derby of the season and we are defending the Scottish Cup. How often does that happen?
As it stands every single season ticket holder had close enough to a one in three chance of a ticket. That's still not bad odds and a decent incentive to keep people paying out for season tickets up front. Those who bought the away season ticket were quite rightly guaranteed a ticket. It's not an option I took up but it was there for us all if we had wanted it.
Organisation today obviously could and should have been better, a straight ballot to stop overloading the ticket office and online can't be that hard to organise in this day and age.

[Iggy Pope]

The laws of supply and demand dictate that in games such as this there will be supporters who miss out, just a fact of life, if you want loyalty go buy a Dug, I have been watching the team for more than 50 years now and sometimes missed out on tickets sometimes not, I do happen to think that supporters who went to the previous 2 games home or away should on production of the tickets be entitled to preferential treatment when it comes down to getting tickets, would that be so difficult to implement.

Even the word (loyal) winds me up and smacks of something else, we are Hibs supporters.

When?

[familyman]

Rubbish. There are 11,000 plus season ticket holders and all are entitled to a shout for a ticket when they want to try for one. This is how ticketing has worked for some time and there is a scheme in place for those to buy all away tickets in advance if they want them.
As a season ticket holder and shareholder I never understood or received anything in the mail about how that scheme worked,only know that a friend of mine who has a season ticket and attended loads of away games and cup games last season was told he did not have enough points at one point when he wanted a ticket SO MAKE ANY SCHEME VERY CLEAR AND NOT AMBIGUOUS and common sense if we must have one

[Iggy Pope]

I doubt that there will be any games at all where supply exceeds demand to the extent it did today. It's special circumstances, the only Derby of the season and we are defending the Scottish Cup. How often does that happen?
As it stands every single season ticket holder had close enough to a one in three chance of a ticket. That's still not bad odds and a decent incentive to keep people paying out for season tickets up front. Those who bought the away season ticket were quite rightly guaranteed a ticket. It's not an option I took up but it was there for us all if we had wanted it.
Organisation today obviously could and should have been better, a straight ballot to stop overloading the ticket office and online can't be that hard to organise in this day and age.

Agree that those who paid into the absurd away ticket option get first dibs. No argument at all. Fair enough buying tickets in advance for games that you can't attend and no other lightweight will attend either. The absurdity of the scheme is reflected in the uptake.
Plenty options open to have a phased allocation though. Loyalty. Home. Away. Cash (in whatever fashion). Worked last season did it not, away game at the Piggery and all. but in the end.....loyalty eh?

[A Hi-Bee]

When?


V Aberdeen cup semi final at the cess pit, don’t remember the year, the queues at ER were a bit bigger then for that particular game, queuing for hours and na hot drinks brought oot then

V Leeds away (2nd time we met them) but went anyways, and sure some more why do you ask?

[Borderhibbie76]

It's ridiculous imo that fans who attend most away games have missed out on a ticket (and yes I am one of them). And yes I am bitter about it as have been to Dumbarton twice, morton, Ayr etc under the loyalty scheme I would have got one no problem. I'm not wanting any uber fan debate but just don't understand why we don't have a points system in place...it's ridiculous in this day and age. People having to queue overnight to guarantee a ticket in 2017- absolute shambles Hibs...it borders on embarrassing tbh

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Real Emerald]

I voted no because I don't think there should levels above ST holders. If there is a way to re-introduce it only for walk ups then yes. All season ticket holders should have the exact same access to tickets, nothing should trump that in my opinion as it devalues your ST. If you're a ST holder and don't get a ticket like today, it's tough. Some you win, some you lose but to create an elite group above that isn't fair. That is my opinion and I've no intention of saying anything further on the matter.

[JJP]

I voted no because I don't think there should levels above ST holders. If there is a way to re-introduce it only for walk ups then yes. All season ticket holders should have the exact same access to tickets, nothing should trump that in my opinion as it devalues your ST. If you're a ST holder and don't get a ticket like today, it's tough. Some you win, some you lose but to create an elite group above that isn't fair. That is my opinion and I've no intention of saying anything further on the matter.

That's my feelings on the matter also. Can understand the disappointment but a lot of the rants today are coming across as very entitled.

[WhileTheChief..]

First thing to do is scrap all these cheap £25 season tickets.

I think next year I'll buy a few of them if they don't. The seats will be never be filled but I'll be in with a better shout of getting tickets for cup games etc. Or to give to mates.

[SunshineOnLeith]

It was a solution to a problem which didn't and doesn't exist. And the HSL points fiasco just caused ill feeling.

[Bishop Hibee]

The system should be changed. Set points for a Season Ticket with added points for each away game attended where ticketed. I don't go to many away games but have done so in seasons past. I've not read every comment but I assume away ST holders were guaranteed a ticket for this. That would negate the issue somewhat bot other clubs manage it, why can't we?

I'd be tempted to make it internet and phone only in future too.

[WhileTheChief..]

It's ridiculous imo that fans who attend most away games have missed out on a ticket (and yes I am one of them). And yes I am bitter about it as have been to Dumbarton twice, morton, Ayr etc under the loyalty scheme I would have got one no problem. I'm not wanting any uber fan debate but just don't understand why we don't have a points system in place...it's ridiculous in this day and age. People having to queue overnight to guarantee a ticket in 2017- absolute shambles Hibs...it borders on embarrassing tbh

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Totally selfish point of view.

You going to away games does not entitle you to a better chance of a ticket.

I agree with the earlier post, ST holders get priority over everyone else. If there's not enough for ST holders then it's either first come first serve or you apply and names are pulled out the hat.

Fans of the top clubs around the world have to deal with this every away game. It's a problem for us once in a blue moon.

[Borderhibbie76]

Totally selfish point of view.

You going to away games does not entitle you to a better chance of a ticket.

I agree with the earlier post, ST holders get priority over everyone else. If there's not enough for ST holders then it's either first come first serve or you apply and names are pulled out the hat.

Fans of the top clubs around the world have to deal with this every away game. It's a problem for us once in a blue moon.
Why is it selfish??? Pretty much every other club in the land operates a loyalty scheme yet we don't and force fans to queue overnight in freezing conditions to guarantee themselves a ticket??

U do think that's crazy then no?? Coz I do...

And I'd still be saying this if I had a derby ticket as I firmly believe in cases like this the fans who spend their money going up and down the country deserve 1st refusal

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[jeffers]

Totally selfish point of view.

You going to away games does not entitle you to a better chance of a ticket.

I agree with the earlier post, ST holders get priority over everyone else. If there's not enough for ST holders then it's either first come first serve or you apply and names are pulled out the hat.

Fans of the top clubs around the world have to deal with this every away game. It's a problem for us once in a blue moon.

I think expecting the same chance of a ticket as someone who goes to the majority of away games just because you have a season ticket and decide you want to go to one away game all season is a totally selfish point of view.

I always thought a season ticket was purchased to provide the club with up front cash for the coming season and guaranteed you a seat for every home game, not to give priority for an away ticket on the odd occasion someone decides they want to go.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Totally selfish point of view.

You going to away games does not entitle you to a better chance of a ticket.

I agree with the earlier post, ST holders get priority over everyone else. If there's not enough for ST holders then it's either first come first serve or you apply and names are pulled out the hat.

Fans of the top clubs around the world have to deal with this every away game. It's a problem for us once in a blue moon.

But if it's a loyalty scheme, surely those who support the club home and away are the epitome of that. For very high demand games, where there won't be enough for season tickets to guarantee a ticket, an extra strata of distribution would be to allocate according to who has attended most games. It will rarely be needed, so it seems fair in exceptional circumstances. Folk who have attended every match thus far should be given first refusal, surely.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why is it selfish??? Pretty much every other club in the land operates a loyalty scheme yet we don't and force fans to queue overnight in freezing conditions to guarantee themselves a ticket??

U do think that's crazy then no?? Coz I do...

And I'd still be saying this if I had a derby ticket as I firmly believe in cases like this the fans who spend their money going up and down the country deserve 1st refusal

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I feel for fans that queued for hours in Baltic conditions, to me that's crazy though!! I'd have just tried online.

Fair do's on your thoughts re fans that travel a lot, I just don't agree.

[Borderhibbie76]

I feel for fans that queued for hours in Baltic conditions, to me that's crazy though!! I'd have just tried online.

Fair do's on your thoughts re fans that travel a lot, I just don't agree.
We will agree to disagree there...re online I did try and it was an utter farce mate...couldn't get 2 tickets together in any section from 1210

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[WS Hibs]

Totally selfish point of view.

You going to away games does not entitle you to a better chance of a ticket.

I agree with the earlier post, ST holders get priority over everyone else. If there's not enough for ST holders then it's either first come first serve or you apply and names are pulled out the hat.

Fans of the top clubs around the world have to deal with this every away game. It's a problem for us once in a blue moon.

I say this as someone who has no chance of a ticket either way, so feel I'm unbiased here...

It's far more selfish to expect to be able to cherry pick the best away games and not expect those who go to all the away games regularly to have some sort of priority. I cannot express this anymore clearly without repeating myself, you go to almost every single (and often unpopular) away game, you should expect to be towards the front of the queue for Hearts away.

They're not "uber fans", they're not privileged, they've just spent more money and time following Hibs all over Scotland and deserve a look in for a ticket over the rest of the season ticket holders. A lot of other clubs manage this perfectly fine, Hibs should be able to as well.

[WhileTheChief..]

But if it's a loyalty scheme, surely those who support the club home and away are the epitome of that. For very high demand games, where there won't be enough for season tickets to guarantee a ticket, an extra strata of distribution would be to allocate according to who has attended most games. It will rarely be needed, so it seems fair in exceptional circumstances. Folk who have attended every match thus far should be given first refusal, surely.

Ok, this makes sense.

Couple of points...

Do Hibs keep a note of who attends away games? I mean, if it's a walk up gate at Raith for example how do I prove I was there?

If, for example, you're not a ST holder and I am, but you go to some away games and I don't , who gets priority?

How many games should you go to away from home to trump my ST??

I just don't see how the club can come up with a system that everyone feels is fair. People will usually put their own point of view first!

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ok, this makes sense.

Couple of points...

Do Hibs keep a note of who attends away games? I mean, if it's a walk up gate at Raith for example how do I prove I was there?

If, for example, you're not a ST holder and I am, but you go to some away games and I don't , who gets priority?

How many games should you go to away from home to trump my ST??

I just don't see how the club can come up with a system that everyone feels is fair. People will usually put their own point of view first!

You'd have to buy your away tickets online/phone to get your points, but that's dead easy.

[wookie70]

You could almost ague we had a form of loyalty/reward system today. All the arguments against the loyalty scheme could be labeled against the way today was ran.

Every season ticket holder should get the same chance - AST holders got preference
Not fair if you can't afford away games- Premium tickets sold without the need to be a season ticket holder
Not fair for those with other commitments that can't attend all the games- 24 hour notice to stand in the pissing rain or sit in front of a PC which for many means time off work they can't get
Every season ticket holder deserves the same opportunity to apply- online queue starts before 12 and little rthym or reason to how people got on.Older folks may struggle with technology or aren't able to queue in cold.

I want a loyalty scheme but even a ballot has more merit than the way the club chose to run today.

[kaimendhibs]

Totally selfish point of view.

You going to away games does not entitle you to a better chance of a ticket.

I agree with the earlier post, ST holders get priority over everyone else. If there's not enough for ST holders then it's either first come first serve or you apply and names are pulled out the hat.

Fans of the top clubs around the world have to deal with this every away game. It's a problem for us once in a blue moon.
Not selfish. Fair. Of course loyalty should be rewarded. As a season ticket holder you got a headstart on loyalty points, and rightly so, they could then be topped up. Should never have been scrapped because a few were complaining

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[kaimendhibs]

Is it not fair that folks who go to dumbarton, qos, morton etc are rewarded?

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[Eyrie]

I'm not a season ticket holder and had relatively few points (excepting the HSL nonsense), but I was in favour of the loyalty points scheme, objected to it being scrapped and would like it back even although I wouldn't benefit.

Keep the structure simple eg 10 point for a home game and 5 for an away game. Season ticket purchases automatically get all 18 home games (180 points) with a 40 point bonus for being an early bird or a 25 point bonus for waiting. Half season tickets would get all games covered (ie 90 or 100 point) plus 10 points bonus.

Then when there is limited supply, set the points bands so that the first group are STs who regularly attend away games (ie more than two in three), then those that attend more than one in three and have all other season tickets as the third group. There could then be three groups below that for regular walk ups, occasional walk ups (ie me) and Aunty Maggie who would like to attend her first ever game.

The above rewards those who attend the most games by giving them priority and preserves the importance of a season ticket.

[Argylehibby]

The loyalty points system was too good to be true for Hibs. I still don't believe that the reason they ditched it was down to fan representation. It was hugely popular.

One of the main reasons it was ditched was concern about the growing number of season ticket holders questioning the worth of a season ticket if they didn't get a chance of a ticket for "big" away games.

There was a meeting at ER which I'm pretty certain was advertised on the web site at the time and very few people turned up at it. Nobody as far as I recall from the ditch it campaign were there.

[wookie70]

One of the main reasons it was ditched was concern about the growing number of season ticket holders questioning the worth of a season ticket if they didn't get a chance of a ticket for "big" away games.

There was a meeting at ER which I'm pretty certain was advertised on the web site at the time and very few people turned up at it. Nobody as far as I recall from the ditch it campaign were there.

If you were a season ticket holder working today and couldn't get to a PC or phone you were denied a chance too.

One of the other reasons that were given was the abuse ticketing staff were getting. If that was the case then just say to the person abusing the staff we would rather you didn't attend if you behave like that.

The threat of not buying season tickets shouldn't be rewarded in my opinion. The withdrawal of the loyalty scheme punishes fans that travel regularly away from home as much as it rewards those that only choose to buy season tickets and go to hot ticket games.

If I had the opportunity to design a scheme I would make it based on attendance rather than buying a ticket. Not only buying a season ticket but using it too. Same points for both home and away games with a running yearly total and a bit of notice to tell fans how it will work. No points for anything other than attending matches. In other words - the reward for attending matches is to be allowed to have first dibs on tickets to attend matches. If you attend lots of matches you are not more loyal or a better fan you just deserve to keep your good attendance going as acknowledgement for your efforts in supporting the club.

[HappyAsHellas]

The scheme needs to be re introduced to make it fair for all. I have a ST, as does my daughter and we attend as many away games as we can. I don't go to Ayr or QOS as I can't be bothered with the big journeys these days so I think I should rightly be behind the away ST holders, and the guys who attend all away games. I will of course attend as many games as I can this season, but today myself and my daughter were online with 5 different devices in a futile and pointless exercise. The manager and players think the away support is vital and worthwhile, why don't the club?

[GORDONSMITH7]

I posted this on the Bounce and share with my many good amigos on .net. Re the disgraceful withdrawal and dafty cancelling of The Loyalty Scheme.


Amit. Are you sure amigo.Is no the new yes? I thought that that Frank was the only person on the Board that argued against scrapping the Loyalty Scheme. I was on the Working Together working group with Frank, Brockie from Carlton Branch , the Director Mr Dunn and your good self , all volunteering, to spend time working out a viable, fair scheme . It was a project in progress that was working and I was bemused when it was scrapped with zero discussion with us. The utter chaos and folk back to the good old days of queuing for 12 hours is what you voted for amigo. I do not imagine you have queued at midnight for 12 hours to get tickets like punters today in your puff.

GGTTH

BIG G

[lyonhibs]

Should never have been scrapped in the first place. The one real big humongous joined up thinking cluster**** that LD et al have actively made.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I posted this on the Bounce and share with my many good amigos on .net. Re the disgraceful withdrawal and dafty cancelling of The Loyalty Scheme.


Amit. Are you sure amigo.Is no the new yes? I thought that that Frank was the only person on the Board that argued against scrapping the Loyalty Scheme. I was on the Working Together working group with Frank, Brockie from Carlton Branch , the Director Mr Dunn and your good self , all volunteering, to spend time working out a viable, fair scheme . It was a project in progress that was working and I was bemused when it was scrapped with zero discussion with us. The utter chaos and folk back to the good old days of queuing for 12 hours is what you voted for amigo. I do not imagine you have queued at midnight for 12 hours to get tickets like punters today in your puff.

GGTTH

BIG G

Exactly why I stopped volunteering G, waste of time and effort, when club never listened

[Baldy Foghorn]

I posted this on the Bounce and share with my many good amigos on .net. Re the disgraceful withdrawal and dafty cancelling of The Loyalty Scheme.


Amit. Are you sure amigo.Is no the new yes? I thought that that Frank was the only person on the Board that argued against scrapping the Loyalty Scheme. I was on the Working Together working group with Frank, Brockie from Carlton Branch , the Director Mr Dunn and your good self , all volunteering, to spend time working out a viable, fair scheme . It was a project in progress that was working and I was bemused when it was scrapped with zero discussion with us. The utter chaos and folk back to the good old days of queuing for 12 hours is what you voted for amigo. I do not imagine you have queued at midnight for 12 hours to get tickets like punters today in your puff.

GGTTH

BIG G

Can you post any response if received please?

[Vini1875]

People were always going to miss out on this game.

[Eddie Burntool]

I don't get to as many games as I like due to work, kids, etc but the folk that make the time and sacrifice other stuff should defo be prioritised when it comes to ticket access. I wouldn't mind not getting to the game quite so much if I knew the seat was going to a proper, committed Hibby! All for a loyalty system of some kind.

[CyberSauzee]

In answer to the original question - yes. But with a points deduction every few games (6?) of say 20%.

[GreenCastle]

How do other clubs do it ?

Surely a bit of market research and we find the best system which works for a similar club the size of ours in the U.K. or abroad ?

I've said it before - any system must be clear, user friendly and consistant.

Previously they didn't award loyalty points for certain games which isn't consistant. Dundee Utd at hampden for example - No points - attended and brought non regular friends to try fill the Hibs end but nothing back.

[GORDONSMITH7]

How do other clubs do it ?

Surely a bit of market research and we find the best system which works for a similar club the size of ours in the U.K. or abroad ?

I've said it before - any system must be clear, user friendly and consistant.

Previously they didn't award loyalty points for certain games which isn't consistant. Dundee Utd at hampden for example - No points - attended and brought non regular friends to try fill the Hibs end but nothing back.

Hundreds of clubs seem to do it better than the Hibs. Rocket Science it is not.

GGTTH

BIG G

[CyberSauzee]

How do other clubs do it ?

Surely a bit of market research and we find the best system which works for a similar club the size of ours in the U.K. or abroad ?

I've said it before - any system must be clear, user friendly and consistant.

Previously they didn't award loyalty points for certain games which isn't consistant. Dundee Utd at hampden for example - No points - attended and brought non regular friends to try fill the Hibs end but nothing back.

If you're asking me cog I've no idea how comparable clubs to Hibs implement loyalty schemes. The reason for 6 games is pretty straightforward; illness, holiday, work means you can't make games a few games but you're not penalized.

[lyonhibs]

On a tangential note, did the away ST (the "blunt instrument to a complex situation" replacement) allocation sell out?

[CyberSauzee]

On a tangential note, did the away ST (the "blunt instrument to a complex situation" replacement) allocation sell out?

With 250 away ST LH, I think so. Off to bed now... See you in Quinn's soon

[Since90+2]

If it is to be reintroduced then games where demand far outstrips supply then points should NOT be awarded for that particular game.

For instance Hearts away or possibly Rangers away, anyone in the top bracket is going to buy a ticket and accumulate points regardless of whether they actually attend or not as the ticket can be easily passed on to a mate and the purchaser is on a win win. All that happens in that instance is the rich get richer.

edit - points not tickets.

[lyonhibs]

If it is to be reintroduced then games where supply far outstrips demand then tickets should NOT be awarded for that particular game.

For instance Hearts away or possibly Rangers away, anyone in the top bracket is going to buy a ticket and accumulate points regardless of whether they actually attend or not as the ticket can be easily passed on to a mate and the purchaser is on a win win. All that happens in that instance is the rich get richer.

Paragraph 1 and 2 completely contradict each other. The 2 games you quote are the 2 examples of when demand for tickets is most likely to exceed supply, not vice versa.

[marinello59]

Paragraph 1 and 2 completely contradict each other. The 2 games you quote are the 2 examples of when demand for tickets is most likely to exceed supply, not vice versa.

I think the poster meant to write points should not be awarded rather than tickets in the first paragraph.

[Since90+2]

I think the poster meant to write points should not be awarded rather than tickets in the first paragraph.

I did indeed :agree:

[Carheenlea]

We had one that was perfectly fair, some fine tuning to it maybe, but still fair.
By all means reintroduce it, but can those who stuck there oar in last time and created division resulting in it's abandonment be trusted not to the same again?

[Hibs Class]

I did indeed :agree:

Did you also mean where demand far outstrips supply?

[InchHibby]

I think the club should revert to the longstanding system, which was every clubs criteria for buying tickets for important games, and that is full season ticket holders get first opportunity, then half season ticket holders getting second dibs.
I know everyone is not in the position to be able to outlay the sum required to purchase a season ticket, even with the pay up scheme, but unfortunately this is the way clubs chose to operate the sale of tickets for big, and away games.
I don't think there should be loyalty points for any of the following and I subscribe to them all, shareholders, HSL , buying from club shop and yes even away season ticket holders.
I know some of my comments won't be everyone's cup of tea, but that system worked for years, not only with Hibernian, but nearly every club in the world.

[jodjam]

This topic was done to death last time but I think the current system is fine. Where I think there should maybe be a change is in the online side. If you are buying a concert ticket then there is usually a charge. Maybe Hibs have a cheap deal with Ticketmaster. If so upgrade it and pass the cost on to the purchaser. We then would have a choice of phoning up (charge) standing in a queue (free) or online (charge) I would happily pay a charge if the online system worked fine. Strike a balance of how many tickets are available in each category and people can make their choice.

For me it is a big no to bringing it back. As someone pointed out earlier it will create tiers within the season ticket system and this will harm Hibs financially. I purchase 2 adult and one kids ticket, soon to be 3 adult tickets. Due to being away on tours a lot of the year I miss 25% of home games. My son will miss the odd one (hangover usually) and my daughter has not been much due to working Saturdays. Even with these games being missed I still buy the ST. I attend away games when I can but to attend an away there is usually a massive financial benefit due to turning down work of a few hundred quid so I'm not prepared to do this.

I'm happy the away ST was brought in. This makes life easier for the ones who never miss an away game like Doc, Baldy F and Hermit C. I rarely missed a game home and away in the 80s and 90s and know the commitment they are making.

I just don't see how you can put in a system that gives someone priority who has been to 8 away games over someone who has been to 6. There are so many reasons why people can't make a game.

A situation we had in our family during the loyalty points summed it up for me. We were going to a few away games when I had to miss a game due to family reasons. I've attended Hibs games with my son for many years and enjoy sitting with him. Long may it continue. However when the tickets went on sale for the cup game at the PBS we were in two different categories. One in first group, the other in second group. What to do? Years of going together and for the one in the first group there is the problem of securing a ticket and sitting alone or waiting until the second release which brings its risks. All season ticket holders should be treated the same. I know sitting together isn't the biggest complaint but for families it is part of the reason for going to ER.

As mentioned before, due to increasing work commitments if the loyalty scheme was brought back in I would not renew the season tickets and become a walk up for the first time in 30+ years. This is why I think the loyalty scheme reintroduction will harm Hibs financially as I reckon others will do the same.

Anyway let's turn over the puddle drinkers at the PBS next week and get that league won quickly GGTTH

[jodjam]

I think the club should revert to the longstanding system, which was every clubs criteria for buying tickets for important games, and that is full season ticket holders get first opportunity, then half season ticket holders getting second dibs.
I know everyone is not in the position to be able to outlay the sum required to purchase a season ticket, even with the pay up scheme, but unfortunately this is the way clubs chose to operate the sale of tickets for big, and away games.
I don't think there should be loyalty points for any of the following and I subscribe to them all, shareholders, HSL , buying from club shop and yes even away season ticket holders.
I know some of my comments won't be everyone's cup of tea, but that system worked for years, not only with Hibernian, but nearly every club in the world.

I agree

[3pm]

It simply means they have been able to attend more games, nothing more or less than that.

I'm sure many people who would consider themselves to be highly committed have lots of reasons why going to every game is not possible.

I'm sure lots of sacrifices are made by many of those who travel all the time. I'm sure lots of sacrifices are made by those who buy season tickets.

I don't think it is helpful to start labelling or judging people based on factors we know very little about.

Nobody says everyone has to go to every game, the loyalty scheme would broadly reward people who have decided to support Hibs when their spare time has allowed them to. Some people don't have the time or money but there are others who do and choose not to go to away games (which is fair enough). There should be some distinction.

Also, strange why everyone has commitments / sacrifices when it's for league games that are known from June every year but these same sacrifices don't exist at two and a half weeks notice when we know we are playing Hearts.

[southern hibby]

I posted this on the Bounce and share with my many good amigos on .net. Re the disgraceful withdrawal and dafty cancelling of The Loyalty Scheme.


Amit. Are you sure amigo.Is no the new yes? I thought that that Frank was the only person on the Board that argued against scrapping the Loyalty Scheme. I was on the Working Together working group with Frank, Brockie from Carlton Branch , the Director Mr Dunn and your good self , all volunteering, to spend time working out a viable, fair scheme . It was a project in progress that was working and I was bemused when it was scrapped with zero discussion with us. The utter chaos and folk back to the good old days of queuing for 12 hours is what you voted for amigo. I do not imagine you have queued at midnight for 12 hours to get tickets like punters today in your puff.

GGTTH

BIG G

Amit, if this is true please come out and say as I would love to know your views on the loyalty point scheme being scrapped and if this was the case. Also if you voted against or for the scheme which fans did you ask and when? I'm asking because I want a fans rep on the board who can represent the fans and not their own views. Now I'm not saying this was your own view I'm asking how you voted and how you came to that conclusion to vote the way you did.

GGTTH

[green day]

these same sacrifices don't exist at two and a half weeks notice when we know we are playing Hearts.

Exactamundo.

Its the same every time - you could cut and paste these threads ahead of every big game.

FWIW a jambo ST holder at work was doing his dinger because he had the same wee whirly thing we have from ticketmaster waiting on his derby ticket. He got it eventually, but it was exactly the same scenario as we have.

They also moan and groan about their loyalty system !!

[Itsnoteasy]

Simple question.

Yes

[jeffers]

This topic was done to death last time but I think the current system is fine. Where I think there should maybe be a change is in the online side. If you are buying a concert ticket then there is usually a charge. Maybe Hibs have a cheap deal with Ticketmaster. If so upgrade it and pass the cost on to the purchaser. We then would have a choice of phoning up (charge) standing in a queue (free) or online (charge) I would happily pay a charge if the online system worked fine. Strike a balance of how many tickets are available in each category and people can make their choice.

For me it is a big no to bringing it back. As someone pointed out earlier it will create tiers within the season ticket system and this will harm Hibs financially. I purchase 2 adult and one kids ticket, soon to be 3 adult tickets. Due to being away on tours a lot of the year I miss 25% of home games. My son will miss the odd one (hangover usually) and my daughter has not been much due to working Saturdays. Even with these games being missed I still buy the ST. I attend away games when I can but to attend an away there is usually a massive financial benefit due to turning down work of a few hundred quid so I'm not prepared to do this.

I'm happy the away ST was brought in. This makes life easier for the ones who never miss an away game like Doc, Baldy F and Hermit C. I rarely missed a game home and away in the 80s and 90s and know the commitment they are making.

I just don't see how you can put in a system that gives someone priority who has been to 8 away games over someone who has been to 6. There are so many reasons why people can't make a game.

A situation we had in our family during the loyalty points summed it up for me. We were going to a few away games when I had to miss a game due to family reasons. I've attended Hibs games with my son for many years and enjoy sitting with him. Long may it continue. However when the tickets went on sale for the cup game at the PBS we were in two different categories. One in first group, the other in second group. What to do? Years of going together and for the one in the first group there is the problem of securing a ticket and sitting alone or waiting until the second release which brings its risks. All season ticket holders should be treated the same. I know sitting together isn't the biggest complaint but for families it is part of the reason for going to ER.

As mentioned before, due to increasing work commitments if the loyalty scheme was brought back in I would not renew the season tickets and become a walk up for the first time in 30+ years. This is why I think the loyalty scheme reintroduction will harm Hibs financially as I reckon others will do the same.

Anyway let's turn over the puddle drinkers at the PBS next week and get that league won quickly GGTTH

This is the part I've never understood mate. You are happy to continue to buy season tickets despite all the reasons for not doing so, but you would stop this if the loyalty scheme was reintroduced ? A scheme that lets face it has probably only really had one or two games where it ever really came properly into effect. That bit I can't get my head round.

[GreenCastle]

Maybe not reintroduce it but have something between Away season ticket and general home season ticket.

Like a Away game priority club? £50 (for example) at the start of the season to be in this category.

So..

Away season ticket holders always get Away tickets 1st.

Then season ticket holder with the Away game priority - but can't attend every every game but pay £50 to be in 2nd tier of sales.

Home full Season ticket holders

Half season ticket holders

General sale

[Golden Bear]

Rubbish. There are 11,000 plus season ticket holders and all are entitled to a shout for a ticket when they want to try for one. This is how ticketing has worked for some time and there is a scheme in place for those to buy all away tickets in advance if they want them.

I agree.

Regardless of the scheme, there will always be occasions like yesterday whereby some fans will be "disappointed." 11,000 into 3000+ doesn't go and that is a fact. Congratulations to those who managed to get a ticket, it's a case of sucking it up for everyone else.

[jodjam]

This is the part I've never understood mate. You are happy to continue to buy season tickets despite all the reasons for not doing so, but you would stop this if the loyalty scheme was reintroduced ? A scheme that lets face it has probably only really had one or two games where it ever really came properly into effect. That bit I can't get my head round.

How's things Jeff? Just off to golf course so will keep it short. Rightly or wrongly and going back many years the season ticket in my opinion got you a regular seat and also in the first priority group for away ticketed games. I think shareholders also were in top group. If I'm not in that group then in a 20k stadium I can sit anywhere. Would miss your mums sweeties in the west though. I know I'm in the minority but I just don't see how someone who goes to the previous 10 away games should be ahead of someone who goes to 6. They are both season ticket holders and it should be loyalty at ER that should be rewarded. See you Saturday

[Billy Whizz]

If it is to be reintroduced then games where demand far outstrips supply then points should NOT be awarded for that particular game.

For instance Hearts away or possibly Rangers away, anyone in the top bracket is going to buy a ticket and accumulate points regardless of whether they actually attend or not as the ticket can be easily passed on to a mate and the purchaser is on a win win. All that happens in that instance is the rich get richer.

edit - points not tickets.

I agree with this

[hibs0666]

How's things Jeff? Just off to golf course so will keep it short. Rightly or wrongly and going back many years the season ticket in my opinion got you a regular seat and also in the first priority group for away ticketed games. I think shareholders also were in top group. If I'm not in that group then in a 20k stadium I can sit anywhere. Would miss your mums sweeties in the west though. I know I'm in the minority but I just don't see how someone who goes to the previous 10 away games should be ahead of someone who goes to 6. They are both season ticket holders and it should be loyalty at ER that should be rewarded. See you Saturday

That approach might have worked in the past when we had less than 6K season ticket holders. It does not when we have 11K+ season ticket (and hopefully growing further). That's why we desperately need a loyalty scheme - it allows supply and demand to be matched much better.

[dangermouse]

Yes. Back to the previous system but change the name to 'Attendance Points' so people can't start twisting the word 'loyalty' to suit themselves.

If people want points for buying items from the club store, subscribing to Hibs TV or joining HSL then by all means give them priority or offers for those things but leave the priority tickets to those who actually go to the games

Spot on!

[dangermouse]

No for me. If you want to be guaranteed a ticket sign up for the away season ticket.

The away season ticket is a good idea but also slightly flawed. I would have signed up for it but knew I wouldn't make every game so didn't want to end up with a ticket I couldn't use.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Amit, why were people on the Working Together group, all giving their time up to introduce the Loyalty Scheme, apart from Directors and fans Directors, not told that it was being dumped. Secondly why the hell were points given to HSL members, of which I was at the time but no longer. Bad move. Thirdly the acquiescence to screamers predominantly on hibs.net and also the Bounce, threatening to not renew their season tickets was weak and an unfounded knee jerk reaction. Fourthly Frank pointed out that the fiasco of people queuing overnight in the freezing cold would happen again. You are confusing dedication with desperation. I guess that you may have never experienced this.

GGTTH

BIG G

[GORDONSMITH7]

I believe that Hibernian will be issuing a statement about the Loyalty Scheme, or lack of one , situation.

GGTTH

BIG G

[beensaidbefore]

The one before was fine just some people got uppity when couldn't get tickets. You'll never please everyone.



The issue was people purchasing tickets for matches they had no intention of attending, just to get the points and maintain their place at the head of the queue.

[SteveHFC]

I believe that Hibernian will be issuing a statement about the Loyalty Scheme, or lack of one , situation.

GGTTH

BIG G

LD mentioned moving ticket sales all online yesterday when speaking to fans in queue however most said to her it was bad idea due to the issues folk have with system

[hibs0666]

The issue was people purchasing tickets for matches they had no intention of attending, just to get the points and maintain their place at the head of the queue.

And how many people were doing that? 10? 100? 1000?

This is just typical whataboutery that is often spouted to justify the status quo, and is not valid as the issue is academic rather than real IMHO.

[WS Hibs]

Agree that for the more exclusive away matches, those at the top of the loyalty points ladder shouldn't get extra points. Only for ones where it's open to all.

[Kojock]

People who go to all or most away games want a loyalty scheme people who don't go to many away games don't want a loyalty scheme.

[Hibeewilly]

People who go to all or most away games want a loyalty scheme people who don't go to many away games don't want a loyalty scheme.
That's it in a nutshell

[hibs0666]

People who go to all or most away games want a loyalty scheme people who don't go to many away games don't want a loyalty scheme.

I don't think that's true.

[Kojock]

I don't think that's true.

So what's your take on it ??

[Blaster]

People who go to all or most away games want a loyalty scheme people who don't go to many away games don't want a loyalty scheme.

I want a loyalty scheme and I only go to 6 or so away league games a season.

I want the people who go to 10+ away games a season to get priority over me. I want me to get priority over people who only go to 1 or 2 or none at all.

This assumes we are all season ticket holders btw

[beensaidbefore]

And how many people were doing that? 10? 100? 1000?

This is just typical whataboutery that is often spouted to justify the status quo, and is not valid as the issue is academic rather than real IMHO.

I don't know how many, but quite a few spoke of it on here and felt they were entitled to buy even when not attending as they already had the points.
If you can't attend, don't buy a ticket for your mate further down the list. That way those further down can also benefit from points. You and I both know it was happening and that is unfair to those further down the list.

[hibs0666]

So what's your take on it ??

I believe the poll result is reasonably accurate indication of the view of our support.

[hibs0666]

I don't know how many, but quite a few spoke of it on here and felt they were entitled to buy even when not attending as they already had the points.
If you can't attend, don't buy a ticket for your mate further down the list. That way those further down can also benefit from points. You and I both know it was happening and that is unfair to those further down the list.

It might happen on the odd occasion. However, you do not define your approach because of the actions of a very few.

[beensaidbefore]

It might happen on the odd occasion. However, you do not define your approach because of the actions of a very few.

I know what you mean, but it undermines the whole point when is can be abused by those in the position to do so. There was quite a bit chat on here so imagine there are plenty not on here who do the same.

[WS Hibs]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/7238

A statement of sorts released on the ticketing:

Chief Executive Leeann Dempster said: “I’d like to thank everyone who continued to show their support for the Club, and I’m sorry that we simply aren’t able to take everyone with us. Whenever demand far outstrips supply, as in this case, there will be those who feel disappointed and sometimes angry. I understand that, people who love and support the Club want to be at the match. However, despite our best efforts we simply aren’t able to meet everyone’s wishes on this."

“We know that the high numbers unable to obtain a ticket has again opened conversation around a loyalty points scheme. This has also been raised with the Club by both supporter directors, Frank and Amit. On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed.

"When the decision was taken to scrap our loyalty points scheme last year, it followed months of debate and discussion with supporters and working groups. There were good reasons, and for those keen to revisit these there are links below for more information.

Suffice to say that we are aware the issue has resurfaced, we have no immediate plans to reintroduce it, but we are open-minded on the issue going forward and are content to have a conversation with supporters around this. Finally, thank you again to everyone for your continued support – it is much appreciated.”

[Hibernia&Alba]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/7238

A statement of sorts released on the ticketing:

Chief Executive Leeann Dempster said: “I’d like to thank everyone who continued to show their support for the Club, and I’m sorry that we simply aren’t able to take everyone with us. Whenever demand far outstrips supply, as in this case, there will be those who feel disappointed and sometimes angry. I understand that, people who love and support the Club want to be at the match. However, despite our best efforts we simply aren’t able to meet everyone’s wishes on this."

“We know that the high numbers unable to obtain a ticket has again opened conversation around a loyalty points scheme. This has also been raised with the Club by both supporter directors, Frank and Amit. On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed.

"When the decision was taken to scrap our loyalty points scheme last year, it followed months of debate and discussion with supporters and working groups. There were good reasons, and for those keen to revisit these there are links below for more information.

Suffice to say that we are aware the issue has resurfaced, we have no immediate plans to reintroduce it, but we are open-minded on the issue going forward and are content to have a conversation with supporters around this. Finally, thank you again to everyone for your continued support – it is much appreciated.”

Fine words, Dempster, but where's my ticket? :greengrin

[WS Hibs]

"On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed."

This is the only bit I take issue with. If we'd had a loyalty points scheme, the people who would've been left disappointed would not have been those who follow Hibs all over the country.

With this current system, it's almost a lottery - ie. did I get on to Ticketmaster early enough, could I afford to queue for 12 hours and guarantee a ticket etc. Some of the people who have missed out on a ticket simply should have been looked after better by the club for the time and effort they put into following Hibs away (and I say this as somebody who doesn't go to any games right now).

[hibs0666]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/7238

A statement of sorts released on the ticketing:

Chief Executive Leeann Dempster said: “I’d like to thank everyone who continued to show their support for the Club, and I’m sorry that we simply aren’t able to take everyone with us. Whenever demand far outstrips supply, as in this case, there will be those who feel disappointed and sometimes angry. I understand that, people who love and support the Club want to be at the match. However, despite our best efforts we simply aren’t able to meet everyone’s wishes on this."

“We know that the high numbers unable to obtain a ticket has again opened conversation around a loyalty points scheme. This has also been raised with the Club by both supporter directors, Frank and Amit. On Loyalty Points I would say this: similar high numbers would have been disappointed. There may have been some differences in who got the tickets, but thousands of supporters would still have been left disappointed.

"When the decision was taken to scrap our loyalty points scheme last year, it followed months of debate and discussion with supporters and working groups. There were good reasons, and for those keen to revisit these there are links below for more information.

Suffice to say that we are aware the issue has resurfaced, we have no immediate plans to reintroduce it, but we are open-minded on the issue going forward and are content to have a conversation with supporters around this. Finally, thank you again to everyone for your continued support – it is much appreciated.”

She just does not get it on this particular issue. :rolleyes:

[Andy74]

She just does not get it on this particular issue. :rolleyes:

She does and she will have all the facts, details of discussions with various parties and an understanding of how the board came to the decision. You mean you just don't agree with her.

[hibs0666]

She does and she will have all the facts, details of discussions with various parties and an understanding of how the board came to the decision. You mean you just don't agree with her.

Nope, I meant what I said. Just to re-iterate, and to save you putting any more words in my mouth, Leeann has shown no understanding of the implications of her preferred approach to ticket distribution.

[Andy74]

Nope, I meant what I said. Just to re-iterate, and to save you putting any more words in my mouth, Leeann has shown no understanding of the implications of her preferred approach to ticket distribution.

Okay, well what you say is just wrong.

You may not agree with the approach, she may well have got it wrong, but to say she doesn't get it or understand the implications is just wrong. I think she will have a far clearer understanding of the wider picture, with the facts to back it up, than anyone.

[marinello59]

Nope, I meant what I said. Just to re-iterate, and to save you putting any more words in my mouth, Leeann has shown no understanding of the implications of her preferred approach to ticket distribution.

Or LD has shown an understanding of how her preferred approach affects the entire fan base rather than adopting the approach that best suits you. Two sides to every argument. :greengrin

[hibs0666]

Or LD has shown an understanding of how her preferred approach affects the entire fan base rather than adopting the approach that best suits you. Two sides to every argument. :greengrin

I sincerely hope that you are wrong. If she thinks that forcing people to queue for hours in winter and £50+ telephone bills for non-answered calls are for the good of the entire fan base then it is her judgement that should be questioned. Maybe I'm being too easy on her. :confused:

[ancient hibee]

:flag:ER (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318278-Stokes-back-at-ER)
I sincerely hope that you are wrong. If she thinks that forcing people to queue for hours in winter and £50+ telephone bills for non-answered calls are for the good of the entire fan base then it is her judgement that should be questioned. Maybe I'm being too easy on her. :confused:

Surely she can't be blamed for anyone daft enough to run up fifty quid phone calls.

[marinello59]

I sincerely hope that you are wrong. If she thinks that forcing people to queue for hours in winter and £50+ telephone bills for non-answered calls are for the good of the entire fan base then it is her judgement that should be questioned. Maybe I'm being too easy on her. :confused:

I'm sure she doesn't think that but you know that anyway.

[hibs0666]

I'm sure she doesn't think that but you know that anyway.

No I don't know that. Why do you think that I stated that I do not believe she understands the implications of her ticketing policy?

[marinello59]

No I don't know that. Why do you think that I stated that I do not believe she understands the implications of her ticketing policy?

Because you are being overly dramatic ? The lack of a loyalty point scheme would not have stopped people queuing although not opening the office until 12 was a mistake. The lack of a loyalty point scheme is also not to blame for the fact some people ran up large phone bills. That is down to the network providers who will take any chance they can to make money out of us.
You possibly can't see the other side of the argument when it comes to loyalty points but that doesn't mean there isn't one. To dismiss others who don't agree with you as simply not getting it helps none of us if there is some sort of compromise to be worked towards.

[hibs0666]

Because you are being overly dramatic ? The lack of a loyalty point scheme would not have stopped people queuing although not opening the office until 12 was a mistake. The lack of a loyalty point scheme is also not to blame for the fact some people ran up large phone bills. That is down to the network providers who will take any chance they can to make money out of us.
You possibly can't see the other side of the argument when it comes to loyalty points but that doesn't mean there isn't one. To dismiss others who don't agree with you as simply not getting it helps none of us if there is some sort of compromise to be worked towards.

Of course I can see the other side of the argument. However, the fundamental point is that Leaann's ticket scheme maximises ticket scarcity. Under such circumstance the people that put greatest value on tickets - the hardcore support that go week in and week out - will do pretty much whatever it takes to get a ticket. It also creates an illusion for season ticket holders that cannot make the same commitment, they have an equal chance of a ticket which will, at worst, lead to disillusionment at their constant inability to get tickets for biog away matches.

As you well know, the same situation will happen for the next match at Tynecastle. We will have even more season ticket holders and even less tickets and the outcome - peoiple queueing even longer and even more disappointed people - is totally predictable. Do you believe that a repeat performance is acceptable?

[Bristolhibby]

I don't know how many, but quite a few spoke of it on here and felt they were entitled to buy even when not attending as they already had the points.
If you can't attend, don't buy a ticket for your mate further down the list. That way those further down can also benefit from points. You and I both know it was happening and that is unfair to those further down the list.

And there's the difference between the Scotland Supporters Club and any Hobs loyalty scheme.
With Scotland there is always the threat of a random collection in the away country. I've collected in Dublin, Prague and Tbilisi.

How would you do that (and prove you are, who you say you are).

I guess the rational in domestic loyalty schemes that if you have the points you can do what you want with your ticket.

I'd imagine Supporters groups pull their big pointed members to ensure that the club as a whole gets the most amount of tickets to distribute to whoever is available to go to an away game.

Difficult one.

J

[marinello59]

Of course I can see the other side of the argument. However, the fundamental point is that Leaann's ticket scheme maximises ticket scarcity. Under such circumstance the people that put greatest value on tickets - the hardcore support that go week in and week out - will do pretty much whatever it takes to get a ticket. It also creates an illusion for season ticket holders that cannot make the same commitment, they have an equal chance of a ticket which will, at worst, lead to disillusionment at their constant inability to get tickets for biog away matches.

As you well know, the same situation will happen for the next match at Tynecastle. We will have even more season ticket holders and even less tickets and the outcome - peoiple queueing even longer and even more disappointed people - is totally predictable. Do you believe that a repeat performance is acceptable?

If its the only Derby of the season and we are defending the Scottish Cup then yes, demand will be just as high. That's not the case normally though, ticket sales usually lasted several days for Tynecastle games with a public sale not unknown. I hear what you are saying about there being less tickets but we simply don't know if that will be the case.
There are people saying this is the first Derby they have missed for 20 years and more. Given that we only had the loyalty points system for two seasons that suggests that things worked well enough without one doesn't it?

[Radium]

:flag:ER (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?318278-Stokes-back-at-ER)

Surely she can't be blamed for anyone daft enough to run up fifty quid phone calls.

She's the Chief Executive.

Ticket master are the partner selected by the company that she runs.

Ticketmaster operate in a way that charges fans for disconnected calls where there was no prospect of them getting a ticket.

I would expect a level of diligence by the board when choosing partners.

As such I think some responsibility lies with the Chief Executive and the board.

What I would expect now is for the club to examine this and sort it out.

I am generally impressed with how the club is run and accept that the changes that have been introduced are considered and thought through. Doesn't mean I agree with them all but the club and the Chief Executive have shown often enough that they 'get it' that I think they should have a fair amount of leeway with fans ATM.


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[HappyAsHellas]

People who don't attend away games have no complaints whatsoever - this is an away game and your ST is worthless at Tynecastle. In this scenario the fans who travel regularly should come first. Anything else is ludicrous.

[Super_JMcGinn]

Yes. Back to the previous system but change the name to 'Attendance Points' so people can't start twisting the word 'loyalty' to suit themselves.

If people want points for buying items from the club store, subscribing to Hibs TV or joining HSL then by all means give them priority or offers for those things but leave the priority tickets to those who actually go to the games

I know family and friends who supported Hibs home and away for over 30 years and have only recently stopped going to all away games. Do you think fans who are travelling now to see a winning team deserve any more recognition than the people who basically watched dross for a large chunk of the 80s ? I for one don't.

[Super_JMcGinn]

It's nothing to do with that though, people who spend their time and money to go and watch hibs regularly home and away should be able to be rewarded for that by getting first dibs on tickets for the biggest games

No they shouldn't, lets see how loyal they are when we aren't winning so many games. As has been said by others going to away games gives NOTHING financially to Hibs ( other than cup games ).

It was only but a few weeks ago there was a thread on here about how abusive some away fans were to certain players, how is that being loyal in any way to Hibs or the team.

[beensaidbefore]

Why not just make a random draw when demand exceeds the allocation? Indicate you would like to be included and then draw the amount we have lottery style. I'm sure there is a computer system out there that could do this without much much human intervention?

[Super_JMcGinn]

Nope. over 80% of the poll have opined that the current situation needs to be changed. You are in a small minority it seems.

I voted for a loyalty points system as well, but not based on what you advocating. I think you will find many more did too and he/ she is not in a small minority at all.

Attending away games has naff all to do with loyalty.

[beensaidbefore]

And there's the difference between the Scotland Supporters Club and any Hobs loyalty scheme.
With Scotland there is always the threat of a random collection in the away country. I've collected in Dublin, Prague and Tbilisi.

How would you do that (and prove you are, who you say you are).

I guess the rational in domestic loyalty schemes that if you have the points you can do what you want with your ticket.

I'd imagine Supporters groups pull their big pointed members to ensure that the club as a whole gets the most amount of tickets to distribute to whoever is available to go to an away game.

Difficult one.

J

It is difficult as you say. The way I see it is the last system was a bit like the tory party. Helping the rich get richer much like rental properties do now. The elite get first choice, first refusal, and can pass on perks to those who they deem worthy.

[hibs0666]

If its the only Derby of the season and we are defending the Scottish Cup then yes, demand will be just as high. That's not the case normally though, ticket sales usually lasted several days for Tynecastle games with a public sale not unknown. I hear what you are saying about there being less tickets but we simply don't know if that will be the case.
There are people saying this is the first Derby they have missed for 20 years and more. Given that we only had the loyalty points system for two seasons that suggests that things worked well enough without one doesn't it?

We are now (hopefully) in a different era when 11K season ticket holders are the norm. The way we worked in the past when we had 4K season ticket holders is now irrelevant.

All things being equal, we are likely to receive less than 2,000 tickets the next time we go to Tiny. The queues will be longer and will start earlier. The only upside is the weather might be better.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I voted for a loyalty points system as well, but not based on what you advocating. I think you will find many more did too and he/ she is not in a small minority at all.

Attending away games has naff all to do with loyalty.

No?

[marinello59]

We are now (hopefully) in a different era when 11K season ticket holders are the norm. The way we worked in the past when we had 4K season ticket holders is now irrelevant.

All things being equal, we are likely to receive less than 2,000 tickets the next time we go to Tiny. The queues will be longer and will start earlier. The only upside is the weather might be better.

How many did we have during the Mowbray era? Is that irrelevant? I'm not sure we have been as low as 4K for a while now.
We have no idea how many tickets we will get next time at Tynecastle. Nobody knows so maybe you can expand on your 'all things being equal' comment. Does that include the normal reciprocal agreements between the clubs which either club would be foolish to ignore and the new stand?

[marinello59]

People who don't attend away games have no complaints whatsoever - this is an away game and your ST is worthless at Tynecastle. In this scenario the fans who travel regularly should come first. Anything else is ludicrous.

Using your logic you could say that as away season tickets are valid those of us who didn't bother taking up that offer can have no complaints what so ever. :greengrin

[HappyAsHellas]

Most clubs have a cut off point for their loyalty schemes - with Hearts it's 2 years so raking up the past is irrelevant in a debate about a loyalty scheme. This particular incident was an absolute guaranteed cluster**** from the moment it was announced and got worse on the day itself. As for next season, let's hope that LD can bring the fans back onside as she screwed up royally here. (IMO)

[hibs0666]

How many did we have during the Mowbray era? Is that irrelevant? I'm not sure we have been as low as 4K for a while now.
We have no idea how many tickets we will get next time at Tynecastle. Nobody knows so maybe you can expand on your 'all things being equal' comment. Does that include the normal reciprocal agreements between the clubs which either club would be foolish to ignore and the new stand?

'All things being equal' means that

1) they will be sell season tickets in the Roseburn Stand just as they do just now.
2) They have no reciprocal agreements in place with the old firm and it will be the same with us
3) We will get a maximum of 1,900 tickets next season
4) Chaos will once again reign when it comes to Hibs ticket distribution arrangements.

Surely you agree that we should plan for that eventuality, and ensure that people do not feel the need to queue for 10+ hours?

[Super_JMcGinn]

No?


No

[kaimendhibs]

I have to wonder. How many on here defending the demise of the loyalty points go regularly away from home and how many had a lot or maximum loyalty points? I'd guess not many. Never have I struggled for tynecastle tickets, but did this time. I wonder how many defending the demise of loyalty points paid 33 quid to see Kerr score the winner there.

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[Super_JMcGinn]

I have to wonder. How many on here defending the demise of the loyalty points go regularly away from home and how many had a lot or maximum loyalty points? I'd guess not many. Never have I struggled for tynecastle tickets, but did this time. I wonder how many defending the demise of loyalty points paid 33 quid to see Kerr score the winner there.

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Or Deeks penalty.

[marinello59]

'All things being equal' means that

1) they will be sell season tickets in the Roseburn Stand just as they do just now.
2) They have no reciprocal agreements in place with the old firm and it will be the same with us
3) We will get a maximum of 1,900 tickets next season
4) Chaos will once again reign when it comes to Hibs ticket distribution arrangements.

Surely you agree that we should plan for that eventuality, and ensure that people do not feel the need to queue for 10+ hours?

1. Yes, they will
2. We don't know that. The Derby is a special case for both clubs. It suits your argument though to pretend we do know.
3. Again, we don't know that. Keep ignoring the new stand because it suits your argument though.
4. It was managed poorly on this occasion. That isn't always the case but again it suits your case to argue it is.. The logistical problems of yesterday can be solved simply with a ballot.

There's plenty of people making a decent case in favour of loyalty points without piling on the drama and throwing made up figures in to the mix. You also ignored the fact we had a large number of season ticket holders during the Mowbray era but that suits your argument as well.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I have to wonder. How many on here defending the demise of the loyalty points go regularly away from home and how many had a lot or maximum loyalty points? I'd guess not many. Never have I struggled for tynecastle tickets, but did this time. I wonder how many defending the demise of loyalty points paid 33 quid to see Kerr score the winner there.

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That's about the truth of it IMO.

[Lancs Harp]

A point to consider for future away games at the likes of Hearts, especially if it transpires we have a more limited allocation is that I would forsee a much larger demand for away season tickets on promotion to the top flight and these season ticket holders will take a reasonable chunk of the away allocation or certainly a bigger chunk than now. Just a point to add to the mix.

[JJP]

People who go to all or most away games want a loyalty scheme people who don't go to many away games don't want a loyalty scheme.

If true that will mean only a small minority of our support are in favour.

[Iggy Pope]

I have to wonder. How many on here defending the demise of the loyalty points go regularly away from home and how many had a lot or maximum loyalty points? I'd guess not many. Never have I struggled for tynecastle tickets, but did this time. I wonder how many defending the demise of loyalty points paid 33 quid to see Kerr score the winner there.

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I'm one of those wanting the system reinstated. I'm sitting on 633 points up to last season and I'm not alone.
Had the system been used this season I'd have my ticket no trouble. Just like I did this time last year.

By the way, I've been watching Hibs visit Tynecastle for decades prior to Brian Kerr and never had trouble getting a ticket once. Until now.

Whisper it, but Raith Rovers tickets go on sale next Wednesday. Probably less than the allocation of the Derby. GENERAL SALE. Bet you the Ticketmaster site copes ok on Wednesday though eh, Leeann? You reading?
Just like it copes ok for Dumbarton, Greenock, Dumfries, Paisley and bloody Ayr, all of which go to general sale in the end.
And when we go up it will also cope fine for Motherwell, Inverness, Dingwall and Dundee. You won't even find these games reach all-ticket status as few will be arsed.

Reinstatement NOW of ticket priority for those that attend away games.

Thanks.

[Andy74]

I have to wonder. How many on here defending the demise of the loyalty points go regularly away from home and how many had a lot or maximum loyalty points? I'd guess not many. Never have I struggled for tynecastle tickets, but did this time. I wonder how many defending the demise of loyalty points paid 33 quid to see Kerr score the winner there.

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I was doing fine on the loyalty points and was never in favour of it for the good of the support overall.

Having sat through every one of the 22 in a row I don't really need my Tynecastle credentials checked.

[Andy74]

I'm one of those wanting the system reinstated. I'm sitting on 633 points up to last season and I'm not alone.
Had the system been used this season I'd have my ticket no trouble. Just like I did this time last year.

By the way, I've been watching Hibs visit Tynecastle for decades prior to Brian Kerr and never had trouble getting a ticket once. Until now.

Whisper it, but Raith Rovers tickets go on sale next Wednesday. Probably less than the allocation of the Derby. GENERAL SALE. Bet you the Ticketmaster site copes ok on Wednesday though eh, Leeann? You reading?
Just like it copes ok for Dumbarton, Greenock, Dumfries, Paisley and bloody Ayr, all of which go to general sale in the end.
And when we go up it will also cope fine for Motherwell, Inverness, Dingwall and Dundee. You won't even find these games reach all-ticket status as few will be arsed.

Reinstatement NOW of ticket priority for those that attend away games.

Thanks.

You do realise that saying you've never had an issue getting tickets until now isn't a great argument for needing loyalty points? How did we cope?

[Iggy Pope]

You do realise that saying you've never had an issue getting tickets until now isn't a great argument for needing loyalty points? How did we cope?

We coped until recently by means of a tier system that ensured those who had attended most away games were first in line for high demand away games (scarce occasions that they are).
Now we don't.
Prior to the Loyalty Points system coming in I don't recall any game being this much of a challenge to get a ticket for and that includes semis and finals.

If you go as often as you say you do (and I've no reason to doubt you), can you tell me one occasion when you struggled to get a ticket for Tynecastle and why it was a struggle?

[kaimendhibs]

I was doing fine on the loyalty points and was never in favour of it for the good of the support overall.

Having sat through every one of the 22 in a row I don't really need my Tynecastle credentials checked.
Have you read my post? I said, defending the DEMISE of the loyalty.points.

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[Andy74]

We coped until recently by means of a tier system that ensured those who had attended most away games were first in line for high demand away games (scarce occasions that they are).
Now we don't.
Prior to the Loyalty Points system coming in I don't recall any game being this much of a challenge to get a ticket for and that includes semis and finals.

If you go as often as you say you do (and I've no reason to doubt you), can you tell me one occasion when you struggled to get a ticket for Tynecastle and why it was a struggle?

I'm now not sure what side of the argument you are on.

The tiered system was in place for about 2 years and barely needed if at all.

I can't recall any occasion I've struggled for a Tynie ticket in about 30 years.

[kaimendhibs]

I was doing fine on the loyalty points and was never in favour of it for the good of the support overall.

Having sat through every one of the 22 in a row I don't really need my Tynecastle credentials checked.
So why are you against it? Is it because you just like a good argument?

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[Andy74]

Have you read my post? I said, defending the DEMISE of the loyalty.points.

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If we both understand the word demise then yes. I did read it.

[kaimendhibs]

You do realise that saying you've never had an issue getting tickets until now isn't a great argument for needing loyalty points? How did we cope?
Exactly. I had plenty of room behind the goals at Dumfries last week for example

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[Andy74]

So why are you against it? Is it because you just like a good argument?

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I believe a fundamental right of a season ticket holder is to at least have the chance of a ticket for any game. Simple as that.

[kaimendhibs]

Exactly. I had plenty of room behind the goals at Dumfries last week for example

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Oops replied to wrong post. I disagree with your post

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[kaimendhibs]

I'm one of those wanting the system reinstated. I'm sitting on 633 points up to last season and I'm not alone.
Had the system been used this season I'd have my ticket no trouble. Just like I did this time last year.

By the way, I've been watching Hibs visit Tynecastle for decades prior to Brian Kerr and never had trouble getting a ticket once. Until now.

Whisper it, but Raith Rovers tickets go on sale next Wednesday. Probably less than the allocation of the Derby. GENERAL SALE. Bet you the Ticketmaster site copes ok on Wednesday though eh, Leeann? You reading?
Just like it copes ok for Dumbarton, Greenock, Dumfries, Paisley and bloody Ayr, all of which go to general sale in the end.
And when we go up it will also cope fine for Motherwell, Inverness, Dingwall and Dundee. You won't even find these games reach all-ticket status as few will be arsed.

Reinstatement NOW of ticket priority for those that attend away games.

Thanks.
Great post

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[Iggy Pope]

I'm now not sure what side of the argument you are on.

The tiered system was in place for about 2 years and barely needed if at all.

I can't recall any occasion I've struggled for a Tynie ticket in about 30 years.

I don't understand what you can't see about my argument unless you're looking for one. The tier system was needed at exactly this time last year. Have you forgotten?

[kaimendhibs]

I believe a fundamental right of a season ticket holder is to at least have the chance of a ticket for any game. Simple as that.
Even if you cant be arsed going for the bread and butter away games?

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[Andy74]

Even if you cant be arsed going for the bread and butter away games?

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That's the type of language I feel isn't helpful and only started with the loyalty points, but yes, even then.

My bank account comes with concert ticket booking priority. I rarely use it as I can't get to many now but when I do fancy one I fully expect to be able to use the service.

[kaimendhibs]

That's the type of language I feel isn't helpful and only started with the loyalty points, but yes, even then.
Sorry, should have said bothered. Ive sat in the cold for away tickets (mainly under mowbray), bought online, been to ticket office (even though its a 60 mile round trip) and never struggled. Heard it all, not going to tynie after mercer, wouldnt give them the money etc etc, and all of a sudden, couldnt get a ticket. Is that a fair system. How about this. Length of service as a season ticket holder is prioritised. I would be well down the list but at least it would be a system

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[givescotlandfreedom]

Even if you cant be arsed going for the bread and butter away games?

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That's quite often the way unfortunately. Loyalty points at least favoured those who make the effort on the less appealing occasions.

[Skol]

The challenge is how to define loyalty.

I am not a prolific away game attender and would not qualify by that means.. The last (apart from Hearts or a cup tie) that I recall was Dunfermline when we were fighting relegation under Fenlon.

However, I have had a season ticket since 1994.

I have only missed 4 derbies since the late 1980s. I cant quite remember exactly when I started to go to them all, but suspect it was c1986. The only ones I have missed I was out of the country, the last of those was October 2004. I was at almost all of the games in the 2 non winning streaks and plenty where we didnt sell out. I would be gutted to miss a derby and although I cant prove it, have as good an attendance record as almost anyone out there for derby matches.

I have also been at all semi finals and finals since 1985, apart from 2 semi finals back in the early 90s when I had pre booked trips to the Grand National. Again a few of those have been at games when we could barely muster a support.

In some ways it was better when people had the ' I am not giving them any money' attitude as that meant getting derby tickets was relatively straight forward.

I was lucky enough to get a ticket this time again and would happily sign up to a loyalty scheme that looks at past derby attendance records ;-)

[Iggy Pope]

The challenge is how to define loyalty.

I am not a prolific away game attender and would not qualify by that means.. The last (apart from Hearts or a cup tie) that I recall was Dunfermline when we were fighting relegation under Fenlon.

However, I have had a season ticket since 1994.

I have only missed 4 derbies since the late 1980s. I cant quite remember exactly when I started to go to them all, but suspect it was c1986. The only ones I have missed I was out of the country, the last of those was October 2004. I was at almost all of the games in the 2 non winning streaks and plenty where we didnt sell out. I would be gutted to miss a derby and although I cant prove it, have as good an attendance record as almost anyone out there for derby matches.

I have also been at all semi finals and finals since 1985, apart from 2 semi finals back in the early 90s when I had pre booked trips to the Grand National. Again a few of those have been at games when we could barely muster a support.

In some ways it was better when people had the ' I am not giving them any money' attitude as that meant getting derby tickets was relatively straight forward.

I was lucky enough to get a ticket this time again and would happily sign up to a loyalty scheme that looks at past derby attendance records ;-)

Did you manage ok this time last year to get a cup ticket for the derby?
The system that was in place last year wouldn't be a threat to you. Looking after regular away fans would still mean Season Ticket holders get a shot at a ticket. I can't imagine what success the club would have to be bringing on the pitch for it to get close to 3000 punters maxed out on points

[3pm]

That's the type of language I feel isn't helpful and only started with the loyalty points, but yes, even then.

My bank account comes with concert ticket booking priority. I rarely use it as I can't get to many now but when I do fancy one I fully expect to be able to use the service.

Nonsense.