Width - Pace - Urgency

[GreenCastle]

Different formation today - Martin giving chance - Cummings back in team etc

But same problems for me..we don't play with width and are persistent on this total football style which is slow and narrow (and easy to defend against).

We should have been 5-0 by half time..

2nd half we were terrible and only with Keatings and Boyle trying to make something happen did we look decent.

Dundee Utd aren't winning this league but we are throwing it away dropping silly points.

We must win the next 2 or going to be like the last 2 seasons and the gap will start to grow between top and others.

Any players brought in this January must be able to beat a player, have speed and be able to play wide right or left.

[SMAXXA]

Different formation today - Martin giving chance - Xummings back in team etc

But same problems for me..we don't play with width and are persistent on this total football style which is slow and narrow (and easy to defend against).

We should have been 5-0 by half time..

2nd half we were terrible and only with Keatings and Boyle trying to make something happen did we look decent.

Dundee Utd aren't winning this league but we are throwing it away dropping silly points.

We must win the next 2 or going to be like the last 2 seasons and the gap will start to grow between top and others.

Any players brought in this January must be able to beat a player, have speed and be able to play wide right or left.

Said similar that when we went one down we played the diamond still with Martin getting the ball from deep and shine and Dylan infront and then keatings top of the diamond. Why didn't we stretch the game and play wider frag full back and centre halfs out and exploit the spaces? So easy to defend when it's narrow dealing with everything down their throat?

[banchoryhibs]

For 75 minutes there was a complete lack of pace or urgency in our play.simply unacceptable.
We should be cruising this league but simply don't put anywhere near enough pressure on the opposition.

[SlickShoes]

For 75 minutes there was a complete lack of pace or urgency in our play.simply unacceptable.
We should be cruising this league but simply don't put anywhere near enough pressure on the opposition.

Been the same for the last 3 years now, it's frustrating to watch, it's partly because teams just want to sit in and frustrate us as its the easiest way to beat us. As you see from last season when someone comes to play football we will beat them but the game is more than that and we still create loads of half chances, score none of them and leak the odd one or two at the back.

I have no idea what can fix this because its been years we've been watching this but it's really dire stuff to watch, if we don't get promoted again the season tickets will fall off a cliff with no cup win propping them up.

[GreenCastle]

Been the same for the last 3 years now, it's frustrating to watch, it's partly because teams just want to sit in and frustrate us as its the easiest way to beat us. As you see from last season when someone comes to play football we will beat them but the game is more than that and we still create loads of half chances, score none of them and leak the odd one or two at the back.

I have no idea what can fix this because its been years we've been watching this but it's really dire stuff to watch, if we don't get promoted again the season tickets will fall off a cliff with no cup win propping them up.

It's simple..teams sit in..so we need to stretch them.

We play the width of the penalty box and oppositions back 4 are rarely stretched.

Our width comes from Cummings running into areas he doesn't want to go into or Gray or Stevenson expected to beat a man and deliver - rarely happens.

How many successful dribbles today? We don't go past opposition players enough and any half decent coach can set up against us.

It's been years since we had a decent left winger.

Needs to be addressed in January and he's going to need to drop some big names to make it work.

[Hibee Mac]

It's simple..teams sit in..so we need to stretch them.

We play the width of the penalty box and oppositions back 4 are rarely stretched.

Our width comes from Cummings running into areas he doesn't want Togo into or Gray or Stevenson expected to beat a man and deliver - rarely happens.

How many successful dribbles today? We don't go past opposition players enough and any half decent coach can set up against us.

It's been years since we had a decent left winger.

Needs to be addressed in January and he's going to need to drop some big names to make it work.

This is a good point, the crux of our problem is the fact that our only width comes from players who dont want to be out there.

We have to sign players that will work in an overall team made to stretch and outrun the opposition upfront, playing down the middle 90% of the time is just asking for results like today.

[GreenCastle]

This is a good point, the crux of our problem is the fact that our only width comes from players who dont want to be out there.

We have to sign players that will work in an overall team made to stretch and outrun the opposition upfront, playing down the middle 90% of the time is just asking for results like today.

Agreed.

Holt was dropping to the half way line at times..

Cummings getting passes wide right (when it's obvious he wants it on his left foot).

Boyle and Keatings must start for me - movement and pace.

Cummings must start too.

For me Holt - who I thought was important drops out and we go with pace and movement up front.

But even in the middle we need more width.

So either 4-1-3-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 with a wide front 3.

4-4-2 Diamond
Narrow 4-1-2-1-2 (4-3-3) isn't going to work.

[biotech]

I'd advocate playing 3 up front. Keeping 3 forward would stop teams pressing us high up the pitch and allow us more forward passing options.

[where'stheslope]

Agreed.

Holt was dropping to the half way line at times..

Cummings getting passes wide right (when it's obvious he wants it on his left foot).

Boyle and Keatings must start for me - movement and pace.

Cummings must start too.

For me Holt - who I thought was important drops out and we go with pace and movement up front.

But even in the middle we need more width.

So either 4-1-3-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 with a wide front 3.

4-4-2 Diamond
Narrow 4-1-2-1-2 (4-3-3) isn't going to work.

Said this on another thread.

We have got to get 3 up front with movement within them.

Standing next to a centre half is not a centre forwards job, its to pull him out of position so he is in the wrong position for the other forwards to take advantage, Keatings is really good at this!

Even if it gives the other forwards a split second more time, it can be enough and the difference between a goal or past the post!

[GreenCastle]

I said last week we need players who can score goals on the pitch.

We also need movement and trickery - we are so predictable and Holt needs to drop out and he just doesn't make the runs and I can't even remember him having a shot on goal today.

Keatings / Cummings / Boyle are all unpredictable and will run in behind.

We don't need Liam Henderson - we need wingers - even the Raith wide players looked dangerous today.

Harris and Boyle are our only wide players - both on the right. Find someone on the left and get the balance right in the team.

[snooky]

I said last week we need players who can score goals on the pitch.

We also need movement and trickery - we are so predictable and Holt needs to drop out and he just doesn't make the runs and I can't even remember him having a shot on goal today.

Keatings / Cummings / Boyle are all unpredictable and will run in behind.

We don't need Liam Henderson - we need wingers - even the Raith wide players looked dangerous today.

Harris and Boyle are our only wife players - both on the right. Find someone on the left and get the balance right in the team.

:greengrin Get yer tin hat on.

[BoomtownHibees]

I'd advocate playing 3 up front. Keeping 3 forward would stop teams pressing us high up the pitch and allow us more forward passing options.

If only teams would actually press us higher up. The problem is that they don't which leaves us nowhere to go by the time the ball has been passed between our back 4 before it's allowed to go forward

[GreenCastle]

If only teams would actually press us higher up. The problem is that they don't which leaves us nowhere to go by the time the ball has been passed between our back 4 before it's allowed to go forward

Too many passes at the back - I would rather we take more risks and be more direct.

Today wasn't long ball or hoofball - quite the opposite but it was too much football.

Trying to play like Barcelona without dribblers and creativity.

Play like that today and Falkirk and Utd will beat us.

[Iain G]

I said last week we need players who can score goals on the pitch.

We also need movement and trickery - we are so predictable and Holt needs to drop out and he just doesn't make the runs and I can't even remember him having a shot on goal today.

Keatings / Cummings / Boyle are all unpredictable and will run in behind.

We don't need Liam Henderson - we need wingers - even the Raith wide players looked dangerous today.

Harris and Boyle are our only wide players - both on the right. Find someone on the left and get the balance right in the team.

Cummings was very predictable today, take too long to get a shot away, dally on the ball and then release a pass too late, get challeneged fairly and have a strop. On today its Holt ahead of him with Boyle and Keatings playing off him, hell even Graham looked better today as he managed to hold up and succesfully lay off the ball to his own team.

Maybe he is trying to hard or maybe its more than that? Not the same bright spark as last year.

[GreenCastle]

Cummings was very predictable today, take too long to get a shot away, dally on the ball and then release a pass too late, get challeneged fairly and have a strop. On today its Holt ahead of him with Boyle and Keatings playing off him, hell even Graham looked better today as he managed to hold up and succesfully lay off the ball to his own team.

Maybe he is trying to hard or maybe its more than that? Not the same bright spark as last year.

Did Holt have a shot on goal today?

Cummings is busy...drops in...moves about and tries to link up play.

Holt - I've been a fan of but I am getting more frustrated and think he's becoming too easy to play against and not scoring enough.

Annoyingly we are at Xmas and still don't know our best strike partnership and formation.

[snooky]

Hibs Players Mantra

1. Receive ball.
2. Pass to nearest player who will hold till challenged by opposition player.
3. Receive pass back from same player.
4. Look to the side and pass to player nearest.
5. Wait till player nearest is challenged by opposition player.
6. Receive ball back from said player.
7. Pass ball to first player.
8. Repeat ad nauseam. :yawn:

[Canon Hannan]

Hibs Players Mantra

1. Receive ball.
2. Pass to nearest player who will hold till challenged by opposition player.
3. Receive pass back from same player.
4. Look to the side and pass to player nearest.
5. Wait till player nearest is challenged by opposition player.
6. Receive ball back from said player.
7. Pass ball to first player.
8. Repeat ad nauseam. :yawn:

Agreed Snooky.
Players playing without confidence and under pressure from the crowd.

[Blaster]

Different formation today - Martin giving chance - Cummings back in team etc

But same problems for me..we don't play with width and are persistent on this total football style which is slow and narrow (and easy to defend against).

We should have been 5-0 by half time..

2nd half we were terrible and only with Keatings and Boyle trying to make something happen did we look decent.

Dundee Utd aren't winning this league but we are throwing it away dropping silly points.

We must win the next 2 or going to be like the last 2 seasons and the gap will start to grow between top and others.

Any players brought in this January must be able to beat a player, have speed and be able to play wide right or left.


The main point in your post is we should have been 5 up at half time

The rest follows because we weren't

[FitbaFolkKen]

We do try and play with width, the number of times Dylan and Shinnie were looking to play a diagonal ball through to gray or Stevenson but they were hesitant in making the run was unreal.

Second half Shinnie pretty much forced Stevenson to the byline with a pass which is what should have been happening all game.

I hate to say it but the area I would improve is left and right back for some more aggressive players. We don't need defenders to we need players that can break down the 11 players planted in front of them.

[GreenCastle]

The main point in your post is we should have been 5 up at half time

The rest follows because we weren't

Agreed but when it's still 0-0 you need to find ways to score.

Even at 1-0 Raith we struggled.

Better width and we could have turned that round to make it 2-1

[Blaster]

Agreed but when it's still 0-0 you need to find ways to score.

Even at 1-0 Raith we struggled.

Better width and we could have turned that round to make it 2-1

I agree. As poor as shinnie was he always was the player willing to run at the defence but need a winger

[GreenCastle]

We do try and play with width, the number of times Dylan and Shinnie were looking to play a diagonal ball through to gray or Stevenson but they were hesitant in making the run was unreal.

Second half Shinnie pretty much forced Stevenson to the byline with a pass which is what should have been happening all game.

I hate to say it but the area I would improve is left and right back for some more aggressive players. We don't need defenders to we need players that can break down the 11 players planted in front of them.

We are expecting Gray and Stevenson to be our most creative players nearly with width and assists.

It's not happening.

Lost count the number of times we attacked onlyusing half tenptch.

Lost count the number of times Stevenson or Gray passed inside rather than down the line as no options down the line on the ground or air.

I do agree that when these 2 attack with one we look dangerous but ideally we would have proper wide players who can do this on a consistent basis.

The top teams have attacking / fast wide players. We have a slow attack which can easily be defended !

[blackpoolhibs]

Agreed Snooky.
Players playing without confidence and under pressure from the crowd.

I wondered how long it would be before it was the fans fault. :rolleyes:

[GreenCastle]

I agree. As poor as shinnie was he always was the player willing to run at the defence but need a winger

Shinnie and Commons are meant to be the play makers..

The number 10 who links the play - first half yes.

2nd half no and Raith adapted but we played straight passes into players who had no confidence / quality or option but to pass it backwards.

Just think how many times did we switch the play? Very rarely.

[Brooster]

Slow motion football, no pace no urgency very little pressing. Easy to play against. Thats why poor teams like RR are leaving ER with points.

[GreenCastle]

It amazes me the way players play when they need a goal in the last 2 mins like today. Direct - running to quick free kicks etc.

Why can't they show more urgency during the game rather than the last few mins ?

Odd.

[greenlex]

We would be fine if we had pace and urgency. Play the ball quicker. Not overly fussed for width. We create plenty but that extra touch (all over the park but particularly in front of goal) is killing us.

[Hibby Bairn]

Imo Hanlon is worst culprit. He frequently gets the ball to feet but there is no tempo set by him. Often it will be a slow, trundling ball to McGregor or Stevenson. No zip. No urgency.

Very frustrating to watch.

And he has lost yards of any pace he had due to bulking up. Again imo. I watched him chasing back last week and this. And he was miles off the pace.

[hibbysam]

Different formation today - Martin giving chance - Cummings back in team etc

But same problems for me..we don't play with width and are persistent on this total football style which is slow and narrow (and easy to defend against).

We should have been 5-0 by half time..

2nd half we were terrible and only with Keatings and Boyle trying to make something happen did we look decent.

Dundee Utd aren't winning this league but we are throwing it away dropping silly points.

We must win the next 2 or going to be like the last 2 seasons and the gap will start to grow between top and others.

Any players brought in this January must be able to beat a player, have speed and be able to play wide right or left.

I'm confused, you say we are easy to play against, but should have been 5-0 up at half time. I would say it was a case of missed chances rather than easy to play against. We dominated the first half without putting the ball i. The net, nothing to do with width or pace, and more to do with bursting the net.

[Hibby Bairn]

It amazes me the way players play when they need a goal in the last 2 mins like today. Direct - running to quick free kicks etc.

Why can't they show more urgency during the game rather than the last few mins ?

Odd.

Absolutely. Hearts did this 2 years ago and were frequently 2 or 3 up after 30 mins.

[GreenCastle]

I'm confused, you say we are easy to play against, but should have been 5-0 up at half time. I would say it was a case of missed chances rather than easy to play against. We dominated the first half without putting the ball i. The net, nothing to do with width or pace, and more to do with bursting the net.

We created chances first half and should have been 5-0 up. Chances were central and occasionally came from some wide movement to open up gaps.

Mostly 2nd half and a few performances recently where we just don't stretch teams.

Just because teams sit in there are ways to break them down. Dribble..give and go (1-2) - through ball etc. We play in front of teams at a slow tempo - giving straight hospital passes.

It needs to improve or we will keep seeing performances like today for the rest of the season.

[Islington Hibs]

It amazes me the way players play when they need a goal in the last 2 mins like today. Direct - running to quick free kicks etc.

Why can't they show more urgency during the game rather than the last few mins ?

Odd.

Spot on. Total lack of urgency for 80% of the match. But they showed they can do it- the management team really need to work on this and fast.

We controlled the match expecting to walk to ball into their goal with far too many pretty laborious passes. Further often we only had one or two players up front to their five plus defenders making it very hard to score. No risk taking even when one down.

Technically we were much more skillful but they hit the post and scored with very little possession we huffed and puffed and particularly in the half really looked very stale.

[hibbysam]

We created chances first half and should have been 5-0 up. Chances were central and occasionally came from some wide movement to open up gaps.

Mostly 2nd half and a few performances recently where we just don't stretch teams.

Just because teams sit in there are ways to break them down. Dribble..give and go (1-2) - through ball etc. We play in front of teams at a slow tempo - giving straight hospital passes.

It needs to improve or we will keep seeing performances like today for the rest of the season.

Doesn't matter where the chances come from, if we are so predictable and easy to play against, we shouldn't be saying we 'should have scored 5 first half' as the other side would snuff us out.

If we are creating enough chances to go 5-0 up, then it is a case of missed chances rather than poor play. Stats tell you we dominated today, but failed to take the chances. Creating them was not a problem today.

[GreenCastle]

Doesn't matter where the chances come from, if we are so predictable and easy to play against, we shouldn't be saying we 'should have scored 5 first half' as the other side would snuff us out.

If we are creating enough chances to go 5-0 up, then it is a case of missed chances rather than poor play. Stats tell you we dominated today, but failed to take the chances. Creating them was not a problem today.

2nd half - we really created nothing until last 15 mins.

I'm not sure who was taking the stats but Raith keeper had nothing to do 2nd half until near the end..when we thought oh no we are losing 3 points..we actually need to do something about it..

[Nicho87]

We do not look like a team that is playing for the league. You could sense a real team togetherness last season before the final, i dont see that with this team.

[GreenCastle]

We do not look like a team that is playing for the league. You could sense a real team togetherness last season before the final, i dont see that with this team.

This does worry me as momentum in football is massive - we seriously need to build some.

We need to go on a run - win more than our highest 3 games in a row.

Do we even need Liam Henderson? Love the guy but... is he a pacy winger we need ? Where would we play him ?!

[hibbysam]

2nd half - we really created nothing until last 15 mins.

I'm not sure who was taking the stats but Raith keeper had nothing to do 2nd half until near the end..when we thought oh no we are losing 3 points..we actually need to do something about it..

The game lasts 90 minutes, not just one half, over the piece we created more than enough to win the game, which tells me we are not easy to defend against and need to start putting chances away. If you finish them and go 2/3 up at half time, are we then still saying we need width and pace and are easy to defend against?

[Gmack7]

Someone like Danny Swanson would be a good fit, pacey and direct with a decent goal return, splash the cash Hibs we can't afford not to

[Brooster]

Imo Hanlon is worst culprit. He frequently gets the ball to feet but there is no tempo set by him. Often it will be a slow, trundling ball to McGregor or Stevenson. No zip. No urgency.

Very frustrating to watch.

And he has lost yards of any pace he had due to bulking up. Again imo. I watched him chasing back last week and this. And he was miles off the pace.

The lad is playing through an injury and isnt training. Needs an op but for some reason Lennon trying to play through the pain. Get him operated on and back for the run in. Forster is capable of stepping up

[GreenCastle]

Sorry to drag this back up...

But so happy with the set up tonight and the difference when we play with width and pace.

We are a much better balanced team and also have so much strength and depth on our bench now.

Onwards and upwards - well done Lennon for making the changes !

[pacoluna]

I like many on this just can't understand why it took us 3 seasons to realise to wipe teams away all we needed extra was a bit pace on the wings,all the overthinking tacticians on this said it wouldn't be as simple as that, today proved it was

[MWHIBBIES]

I like many on this just can't understand why it took us 3 seasons to realise to wipe teams away all we needed extra was a bit pace on the wings,all the overthinking tacticians on this said it wouldn't be as simple as that, today proved it was
1 game isnt a good sample size, lets see how it goes vs 11 defenders.

[GreenCastle]

1 game isnt a good sample size, lets see how it goes vs 11 defenders.

Interesting point.

I do think though we have several different options now.

We stretch teams it will create gaps.

Let's see how it works next week against Dumbarton.