Are we now just an average Championshop side?

[GlasgowHibee]

Without McGinn, McGeouch or Fyvie, the majority of our players are pretty average. Looking through the lineup today, and watching the football we played, we were so poor.

It got me thinking, should we just accept our performances as we are now a championship club? We have the biggest budget in the league, with some of the best players, and we are just struggling to beat sides like Morton.

Pretty tough to take. :bitchy:

Edit: Meant championship in title if an admin could change.

[Ilovehibs]

Without McGinn, McGeouch or Fyvie, the majority of our players are pretty average. Looking through the lineup today, and watching the football we played, we were so poor.

It got me thinking, should we just accept our performances as we are now a championship club? We have the biggest budget in the league, with some of the best players, and we are just struggling to beat sides like Morton.

Pretty tough to take. :bitchy:

I agree sadly. Not how I thought the team would be performing this season. Spirit seems to be non existent not to mention the lack of any fluidity or creativity. Come on Lennon. Raise your game here. Hopefully he can.

[Ricky Bobby]

The table tells you that we a good championship side, but last season most felt we would hold our own in the SPFL. I dont know if thats the case this year.

[660]

No we are the best championship side at the moment and if it continues we will be a premiership side next year

[Golden Bear]

No, we are better than average but have fallen back on last year's standards and on current form would really struggle to beat an SPL side.

[B.H.F.C]

We are the best championship side at the moment. But the championship is pish. And so is our football. If we don't improve we are in trouble.

[J-C]

No when we have our strongest team out but Yes when we don't like the past 2 weeks, it just highlights our very poor depth in the squad when we have our 3 best players missing. I've been very disappointed Lennon has not played Martin during this and the lad must be getting frustrated himself, lets hope we get 2 wide men in during january.

[truehibernian]

Previous seasons we lost and drew to Alloa, Dumbarton, QotS, Raith, Morton, Falkirk......previous seasons we've not been top of the league after 17 games - added to which we're there minus four top first team players, Keatings also, and the manager has only had one window - seriously, give the league some respect (and other sides) - it was never ever going to be a 'skoosh' but let NL bring in a couple of players, let the injuries subside, and chill !

We are top of the league, not mid table !

[Sir David Gray]

Teams who are top of their league, can't be described as being an average side in that division.

We're not as good as I would have hoped we would be at this moment in time but I'm hoping that we'll see an upturn in performances over the next 4-6 weeks.

[IberianHibernian]

Without McGinn, McGeouch or Fyvie, the majority of our players are pretty average. Looking through the lineup today, and watching the football we played, we were so poor.

It got me thinking, should we just accept our performances as we are now a championship club? We have the biggest budget in the league, with some of the best players, and we are just struggling to beat sides like Morton.

Pretty tough to take. :bitchy:

Edit: Meant championship in title if an admin could change.Like Morton ? Long unbeaten record at home , vastly experienced manager , beat Celtic in a cup tie just a couple of years ago . Do you think many of the Premiership teams would beat Morton at Cappielaw in the cup ? Who are the players you think we have who are so superior to likes of Morton ? I`d say Hanlon , Mc Gregor , Gray , Mc Ginn , Fyvie , Shinnie , McGeoch, Fontaine and Harris and think Marciano and Laidlaw have both been good . Obvious question marks over Cummings. But rest would struggle to get into any top Championship squad

[Sir David Gray]

Like Morton ? Long unbeaten record at home , vastly experienced manager , beat Celtic in a cup tie just a couple of years ago . Do you think many of the Premiership teams would beat Morton at Cappielaw in the cup ? Who are the players you think we have who are so superior to likes of Morton ? I`d say Hanlon , Mc Gregor , Gray , Mc Ginn , Fyvie , Shinnie , McGeoch, Fontaine and Harris and think Marciano and Laidlaw have both been good . Obvious question marks over Cummings. But rest would struggle to get into any top Championship squad

You think there's question marks over whether Jason Cummings would get a game with any of the of the other sides at the top of the Championship? :confused:

Every team in the division would snap your hand off for any of the players who have played in our first team this season, with the possible exception of Dundee Utd (who would snap your hand off for the majority of our players).

[Andy74]

Mind that time we lost 3-0 to Morton at home?

[Vini1875]

Todays team looked very much like a championship side, no better than Morton. However I suspect that the bottom six in the Premiership would struggle against us or Morton.

[NAE NOOKIE]

We are far from being just an average Championship side, what we are at the moment is a team who have failed to build on the momentum we should have gained after winning our first 5 games and who even after 2 seasons are struggling to find the right formula required to put away teams in games we mostly dominate ... even the games we have lost and drawn against the likes of Falkirk and Dundee Utd we have been the better team.

The reason for the current murmurings amongst the fans isn't so much our league position as the fact that it should be so much better, not for the first time this season we have seen the clubs around us drop points and failed to capitalise on it. Given the players who were missing yesterday if I had never seen the game I would have been reasonably happy to come away from a tough fixture having at least not lost any ground ..... but what was concerning was that the performance I witnessed was so far below the standard that this club has to aim for, so much so that Morton will rightly feel a draw was the least they deserved.

I've said it before, if there is one thing the fans of this club have learned over the last 5 or 6 seasons its to under no circumstances ignore any warning signs that the performance and attitude on the pitch is heading in the wrong direction ... the club did that under Butcher and look where that got us. Our performance against Dumbarton last week was acceptable and that was the best you could say for it, our performance against Morton fell below even that and that's unacceptable ....... I know we were short of 3 of our best forward thinking midfield players, but even so I fail to see why last night or against Dumbarton it was necessary to play with 6 defensively minded players, with so much experience in the team surely to hell there is enough scope to risk giving young Scott Martin a shot ...... last night the outfield starting line up was:

Stevenson ............. 271 senior appearances
McGregor .............. 243 senior appearances
Hanlon .................. 238 senior appearances
Fontaine ................ 358 senior appearances
Gray ..................... 208 senior appearances
Shinnie ................. 171 senior appearances
Commons .............. 407 senior appearances
Bartley .................. 350 senior appearances
Graham ................. 155 senior appearances
Boyle ..................... 190 senior appearances

With all that knowledge and experience to call upon surely if you take out one of them the remaining 9 can be trusted to help a youngster navigate his way through a Scottish Championship football match and hopefully give him the time and space to make an impact.

Anyway I digress ....... Come the next round of the Scottish cup should we make it lets see how many teams outside of Celtic will be happy to see Hibernian FC come out of the hat next to them, not many I would imagine ... so no, we certainly are not 'just an average Championship club'

[Pretty Boy]

I said many, many times last year the the longer you are in this league the harder it is to get out of it. There's plenty evidence to back it up with teams being relegated and spending multiple years out of the top league.

I was roundly shouted down and ridiculed as a bedwetter, with very little actual argument coming back. I accept that the last 2 years have seen a better standard of team than is usual in the Championship alongside us but we have never even landed a blow in the title race and finishing behind Falkirk, in any league, should never be acceptable for Hibs. That's not being negative that's having reasonable expectations of how Hibs should be performing.

We seem to have gone from proclaiming ourselves a Premiership team in the wrong league to now talking about scraping out the league with 1-0 wins. I'm very worried about our ability to get ou of this league. We are dire to watch, we lack any cutting edge most weeks and our squad is paper thin. I'm also worried about how complacent some fans seem, January seems to be the answer to all our problems. Issue is it has been for about 5 seasons and has rarely seen us actually improve after the window, quite often we get worse.

We are undoubtedly a club that is set up and run as a Premiership operation. On the park? This season we look as though we are exctly where we belong and I worry about us firstly getting out the league and secondly how prepared we are to stay out if we manage it.

[HibbySpurs]

I said many, many times last year the the longer you are in this league the harder it is to get out of it. There's plenty evidence to back it up with teams being relegated and spending multiple years out of the top league.

I was roundly shouted down and ridiculed as a bedwetter, with very little actual argument coming back. I accept that the last 2 years have seen a better standard of team than is usual in the Championship alongside us but we have never even landed a blow in the title race and finishing behind Falkirk, in any league, should never be acceptable for Hibs. That's not being negative that's having reasonable expectations of how Hibs should be performing.

We seem to have gone from proclaiming ourselves a Premiership team in the wrong league to now talking about scraping out the league with 1-0 wins. I'm very worried about our ability to get ou of this league. We are dire to watch, we lack any cutting edge most weeks and our squad is paper thin. I'm also worried about how complacent some fans seem, January seems to be the answer to all our problems. Issue is it has been for about 5 seasons and has rarely seen us actually improve after the window, quite often we get worse.

We are undoubtedly a club that is set up and run as a Premiership operation. On the park? This season we look as though we are exctly where we belong and I worry about us firstly getting out the league and secondly how prepared we are to stay out if we manage it.

Agree with most of this.

The last two games should be a real awakening. Whilst our squad could be better it actually should be enough to win this league without a lot of fuss.

A change in tactics is needed. Both Dumbarton & Morton played us well even though we eventually overcame the former.

Very in your face style, no time on the ball for Hibs players, defending in numbers and moving forward at a quick tempo.

Yesterday especially this resulted in us resorting to hoofball which is just eye bleeding to watch.

Lennon needs to work out how to get the most efficient performance out of the team through outsmarting the opposition, yesterday Duffy had Lennon on toast.

Also that's twice now Lennon has "doubled down" at 0-0 to get a victory by taking a defender off for a striker (Falkirk was the other), both times we've gone a goal behind within 5 minutes of this play... He's got away with it as we managed to get both games back to 1-1.

Lennons pass marks with me are falling away, yesterday he'd have got 3/10 only because we managed to steal a draw!

[Brizo]

Too often we are playing like an average Championship side which given the calibre of teams in this league is worrying.

Even allowing for injuries man for man we should be dominating games and winning them convincingly. Players must take some responsibility but ultimately its Lennon; and tactics and entertainment wise he has us looking no different from a lot of sides in a very poor league.

[greenpaper55]

Yes we are average, when we were promoted the last time we spent money on class to get us up at the first time of asking, that is clearly not going to happen this time round so better get used to maybe a few years more in this division.

[Scouse Hibee]

We are a championship team, hopefully we can change that and get promoted but the longer it goes on the less chance we have of making it back up. Can't deny the quality we have in our squad but talk is cheap and on the pitch that quality is faltering big time.

[PompeyHibs]

Yes.. 3 years in and yes we are still gub.... but we won the cup.

[500miles]

We're a side unbalanced by injuries at the moment. Defensively strong, but lacking composure and drive in midfield, meaning our attacks break down, or we revert to long balls with strikers who aren't really suited for that game.

Bartley is a good example. He's a really competent defensive midfielder, and great if you're expecting the position to drive at you from midfield, like rangers and hearts in previous seasons. However, he can't run with a ball at his feet like McGinn, Fyvie or McGeough can, so he ends up giving the ball away.

We could play Shinnie deeper, but Keatings isn't quite fit yet, and Harris would be getting a game as the link to attack, but he's out too. We brought in Commons, but he'll at least need to train with the players to develop an understanding first, and this emergency loan period will at least allow us to see if he'll be worth keeping on past January.

I'd like us to sign more reliable ball carriers in January. McGeough is injured too much, as is Keatings ( although, that's because he gets no protection from referees imo.) Henderson would be the dream signing.

People taking about breaking up the team and overhauling things are short sighted, it'd do far more damage than good. This is a close knit team who have shown they can play at a very high standard. Even the games we've lost have been mitigated with ridiculous red cards and injury problems.

We have to settle in for the kicking match this coming month, that's what teams will set out to do with the players we're missing.

[WhileTheChief..]

We've got some bang average players that's for sure.

Thing is, some of them are cup winners and 'legends' to a lot of us and therefor escape criticism.

I thought Gray was woeful last night, are we allowed to say that of our cup winning captain??

Stevenson should have been replaced years ago and Boyle is barely a footballer.

My view is that Lennon thought the squad is far better than it actually is. He knows what the failings are and will sort it out when he can.

[Greenworld]

We've got some bang average players that's for sure.

Thing is, some of them are cup winners and 'legends' to a lot of us and therefor escape criticism.

I thought Gray was woeful last night, are we allowed to say that of our cup winning captain??

Stevenson should have been replaced years ago and Boyle is barely a footballer.

My view is that Lennon thought the squad is far better than it actually is. He knows what the failings are and will sort it out when he can.
I agree with your Lennon comment that he went with what he had in the belief they were good enough.
Perhaps he was fooled given our good start to the season.
He surley will be in no doubt now that too many players are not good enough.
We Need to get to January with as many wins as possible then really strengthen with quality signings.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[NAE NOOKIE]

We've got some bang average players that's for sure.

Thing is, some of them are cup winners and 'legends' to a lot of us and therefor escape criticism.

I thought Gray was woeful last night, are we allowed to say that of our cup winning captain??

Stevenson should have been replaced years ago and Boyle is barely a footballer.

My view is that Lennon thought the squad is far better than it actually is. He knows what the failings are and will sort it out when he can.

That's simply not true, David Gray gets criticised quite a lot on here, though its rarely over the top because by and large he rarely has an awful game, a few average ones yes, but rarely that bad ... last night was one of his poorer games and I think even he would admit that. There isn't a player at Hibs who is going to be perfect all the time, even John McGinn who the fans love was getting some stick in the weeks leading up to his operation.

[Edinburgher]

TBH, the football has not been attractive but would you rather Hibs remained in the Championship playing good football or getting promotion? There will be money to invest once we are in the Premiership to buy a better team and as long as we keep our position as it is now then regardless of how average we look at the moment - I`ll settle for it.

[emerald green]

I said many, many times last year the the longer you are in this league the harder it is to get out of it. There's plenty evidence to back it up with teams being relegated and spending multiple years out of the top league.

I was roundly shouted down and ridiculed as a bedwetter, with very little actual argument coming back. I accept that the last 2 years have seen a better standard of team than is usual in the Championship alongside us but we have never even landed a blow in the title race and finishing behind Falkirk, in any league, should never be acceptable for Hibs. That's not being negative that's having reasonable expectations of how Hibs should be performing.

We seem to have gone from proclaiming ourselves a Premiership team in the wrong league to now talking about scraping out the league with 1-0 wins. I'm very worried about our ability to get ou of this league. We are dire to watch, we lack any cutting edge most weeks and our squad is paper thin. I'm also worried about how complacent some fans seem, January seems to be the answer to all our problems. Issue is it has been for about 5 seasons and has rarely seen us actually improve after the window, quite often we get worse.

We are undoubtedly a club that is set up and run as a Premiership operation. On the park? This season we look as though we are exctly where we belong and I worry about us firstly getting out the league and secondly how prepared we are to stay out if we manage it.

:agree: Agree with all of this.

The bits in bold - ask fans of Leeds United.

The January transfer window seems to get talked about as the be all and end all. I don't think it necessarily is, but I do hope the right type of players can be brought in. That's not guaranteed. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, unrealistic expectations, or even :ostrich:

[steakbake]

Top of the league at Christmas - it could be more comfortable but keep this going, get some of the players back and pick off Utd when we can and it'll work out.

[Sir David Gray]

Top of the league at Christmas - it could be more comfortable but keep this going, get some of the players back and pick off Utd when we can and it'll work out.

Not quite, there's games on Christmas Eve. :wink:

[Captain Trips]

IMO it could and should have been a bit more comfortable at this stage. I feel we have failed to be creative and this is the impact in goals for.

Dissapointed with Shinnie but mostky with Marvin Bartley. Marvin was my MOM on a few occasions last term, this seadon he has been a let down. Or crossing and final ball has been very poor.

I hope NL has seen this as for me if the crossing and final ball is sorted we will do well but it needs addressing this coming window.

[GreenCastle]

How can a team be average at the top of the league ?

Are we average in Scottish football terms - posisbly. Scottish football is pretty woeful - shown by Celtic so far ahead in a league where even in Europe they are average.

[familyman]

IMO it could and should have been a bit more comfortable at this stage. I feel we have failed to be creative and this is the impact in goals for.

Dissapointed with Shinnie but mostky with Marvin Bartley. Marvin was my MOM on a few occasions last term, this seadon he has been a let down. Or crossing and final ball has been very poor.

I hope NL has seen this as for me if the crossing and final ball is sorted we will do well but it needs addressing this coming window.

An average side just now due to injuries so imperative Barley and Fontaine in particular sharpen up and show belief and fast..they above all else should step up in the area we are toiling in.....
otherwise most players are average for sure and will toil in premier league if we get there which we better do, it is embarrassing we are still in this league.:flag:

[Dashing Bob S]

I said many, many times last year the the longer you are in this league the harder it is to get out of it. There's plenty evidence to back it up with teams being relegated and spending multiple years out of the top league.

I was roundly shouted down and ridiculed as a bedwetter, with very little actual argument coming back. I accept that the last 2 years have seen a better standard of team than is usual in the Championship alongside us but we have never even landed a blow in the title race and finishing behind Falkirk, in any league, should never be acceptable for Hibs. That's not being negative that's having reasonable expectations of how Hibs should be performing.

We seem to have gone from proclaiming ourselves a Premiership team in the wrong league to now talking about scraping out the league with 1-0 wins. I'm very worried about our ability to get ou of this league. We are dire to watch, we lack any cutting edge most weeks and our squad is paper thin. I'm also worried about how complacent some fans seem, January seems to be the answer to all our problems. Issue is it has been for about 5 seasons and has rarely seen us actually improve after the window, quite often we get worse.

We are undoubtedly a club that is set up and run as a Premiership operation. On the park? This season we look as though we are exctly where we belong and I worry about us firstly getting out the league and secondly how prepared we are to stay out if we manage it.

A lot of sense in what you say. The cup win has given us an inflated sense of where we stand in the Scottish game.

We should be far more dominant in this league than we are.

I'm concerned that the goodwill and the increased attendances will dissipate soon if we don't turn in some performances with verve and excitement. Lennon has made us hard to beat but it feels a bit like percentage football right now. If we do grind our way to the flag then all will be forgiven.

But if we fail again, playing this type of football, it will be a massive setback for the club.

[where'stheslope]

Its been said so many times, to win the Championship you need a Championship side, not as some say on here "we are a Premiership side in the Championship"!

We can play lovely football at times, but most of our opponents roll up their sleeves and fight for every ball and make us look disjointed and frustrated!

We have got to get the balance especially in midfield, we have great creative players but not enough ball winners and we can be put out of our game plan with a host of niggley fouls!

I know the refereeing lets us down on this, but we have to learn to adapt to and play around these barriers.

[Sammy7nil]

Without McGinn, McGeouch or Fyvie, the majority of our players are pretty average. Looking through the lineup today, and watching the football we played, we were so poor.

It got me thinking, should we just accept our performances as we are now a championship club? We have the biggest budget in the league, with some of the best players, and we are just struggling to beat sides like Morton.

Pretty tough to take. :bitchy:

Edit: Meant championship in title if an admin could change.

Eh let me think, no we are top of the league a long way from average. Everyone needs to chill the league was never goning to be won by Christmas. We are top of fhe league with 4 or 5 players still to return D Utd our only rival have yet to have the same problems we have had let's how they cope from now to March.

[Onion]

We were no better than an average Championship side on Sat, which is shocking given the budget and experience of the players we have. That's why the focus is on Lennon's management. However, over a full season, you'd expect this Hibs squad, under any competent manager, to gather enough points to win this league.

[Forza Fred]

The table suggests we are the current best championship side, but we are capable of turning in average or even below average performances.

Nothing stands still, and I
fear the time we have spent in this division has resulted in some players performing more at championship level, than Premier league level.

[Septimus]

At present we cannot beat a team which had an attendance of two and a half thousand on Saturday. From a purely financial point of view we should be vastly superior to the likes of Morton but we clearly are not. Where is the money going?

[green with envy]

Without McGinn, McGeouch or Fyvie, the majority of our players are pretty average. Looking through the lineup today, and watching the football we played, we were so poor.

It got me thinking, should we just accept our performances as we are now a championship club? We have the biggest budget in the league, with some of the best players, and we are just struggling to beat sides like Morton.

Pretty tough to take. :bitchy:

Edit: Meant championship in title if an admin could change.

We're about as average as last season and the season before. That aside i still believe this "average" side will win the league with something to spare.

[Keith_M]

What a strange question about the team currently sitting top of the Championship.

[Golden Bear]

At present we cannot beat a team which had an attendance of two and a half thousand on Saturday. From a purely financial point of view we should be vastly superior to the likes of Morton but we clearly are not. Where is the money going?


I'd hazard a guess that our wage bill and the Morton wage bill are poles apart.

[IlDiavola]

How can a team be average at the top of the league ?

Are we average in Scottish football terms - posisbly. Scottish football is pretty woeful - shown by Celtic so far ahead in a league where even in Europe they are average.

I would venture that Celtic are not even an average European side.

[Septimus]

I'd hazard a guess that our wage bill and the Morton wage bill are poles apart.

Pity that the end result is so similar

[Andy74]

Pity that the end result is so similar

Morton aren't currently top of their league and holders of the Scottish cup though are they? Anyone can get results on a week to week basis, football has forever been like this.

[where'stheslope]

Morton aren't currently top of their league and holders of the Scottish cup though are they? Anyone can get results on a week to week basis, football has forever been like this.

Stating the obvious are we, Win, lose or draw????

I think you mean anyone can get a result now and again?