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Unseen work
17-12-2016, 07:28 PM
When we were linked with him I for one was all for it, I thought our style wouldn't change much but he would be slightly more cautious and we wouldn't concede as many goals.

When he was appointed and half his time was in the euros and he said he never wanted to make too many changes and highlighted Harris etc as good this slightly concerned me.

His signings of graham and holt again concerned me and he failed to address the width and pace issue we have had for years.

Iv never felt in his interviews he is particularly delighted to be here, imo he thought it would be an easy stroll and opportunity to put himself in the shop window.

The results to begin with were good but as the season is progressing he seems to be getting more and more worried, changing his starting 11 most weeks and trying to convince the fans we are playing well.

Other than beating Falkirk 2-0 we have failed to win any big games or even approach games like they are a big game.

He has dropped out top goal scorer and seems to be far too ignorant to put him back in.

He has had to sign commons, 3 weeks before the transfer window opens as he is that worried.

I have no faith in the man.

MacGruber
17-12-2016, 07:34 PM
Agreed. United have made 8 points on us from a bad start they were virtually destined for. We are level now in Jan and Lennon has us going backwards at an alarming rate.

The team spirit from last season is all but gone.

Worrying times

GreenLake
17-12-2016, 07:47 PM
It should be written into Hibs manager's contracts that they will make two substitutions before the 61st minute has elapsed.

Hi Heid Yin
17-12-2016, 08:02 PM
Lennon will be deemed a success should we gain automatic promotion.
The best that he can do at this stage is put us top.
Are we top? Yes
Are we playing attractive football? No
Are we playing effective football? As we are top then the answer has to be Yes
Is there room for improvement? Yes

MacGruber
17-12-2016, 08:04 PM
In this league with this opposition and resources available - not being well clear is hugely disappointing.

Jim44
17-12-2016, 08:05 PM
When we were linked with him I for one was all for it, I thought our style wouldn't change much but he would be slightly more cautious and we wouldn't concede as many goals.

When he was appointed and half his time was in the euros and he said he never wanted to make too many changes and highlighted Harris etc as good this slightly concerned me.

His signings of graham and holt again concerned me and he failed to address the width and pace issue we have had for years.

Iv never felt in his interviews he is particularly delighted to be here, imo he thought it would be an easy stroll and opportunity to put himself in the shop window.

The results to begin with were good but as the season is progressing he seems to be getting more and more worried, changing his starting 11 most weeks and trying to convince the fans we are playing well.

Other than beating Falkirk 2-0 we have failed to win any big games or even approach games like they are a big game.

He has dropped out top goal scorer and seems to be far too ignorant to put him back in.

He has had to sign commons, 3 weeks before the transfer window opens as he is that worried.

I have no faith in the man.

I can't disagree with a single word of this. I don't know if he has the ability or character to avoid what would potentially be the lowest point or maybe even the end of his career because, if we don't get promotion, nobody will be interested in him.

Canon Hannan
17-12-2016, 08:12 PM
His formation was attacking and he has a good attitude but the quality of player is not great. Time for the Board to back him and the fans.

Hi Heid Yin
17-12-2016, 08:12 PM
In this league with this opposition and resources available - not being well clear is hugely disappointing.

Disappointing, yes, but the reality is that Dundee United have great resources as well, so why should we be well clear of them?
Should things remain as they stand and we are separated at the seasons end by our superior goal difference, then that will be enough to see us go up as Champions!

Ricky Bobby
17-12-2016, 08:31 PM
Halfway through the season and he is still scratching about for a system, a formation and regardless of injuries a starting 11. Nowhere near good enough.

bingo70
17-12-2016, 08:31 PM
When we were linked with him I for one was all for it, I thought our style wouldn't change much but he would be slightly more cautious and we wouldn't concede as many goals.

When he was appointed and half his time was in the euros and he said he never wanted to make too many changes and highlighted Harris etc as good this slightly concerned me.

His signings of graham and holt again concerned me and he failed to address the width and pace issue we have had for years.

Iv never felt in his interviews he is particularly delighted to be here, imo he thought it would be an easy stroll and opportunity to put himself in the shop window.

The results to begin with were good but as the season is progressing he seems to be getting more and more worried, changing his starting 11 most weeks and trying to convince the fans we are playing well.

Other than beating Falkirk 2-0 we have failed to win any big games or even approach games like they are a big game.

He has dropped out top goal scorer and seems to be far too ignorant to put him back in.

He has had to sign commons, 3 weeks before the transfer window opens as he is that worried.

I have no faith in the man.

Agree with most of what you say (assuming you mean stubborn rather than ignorant?).

Only thing I would say is I don't think I've lost faith in him, a winger or two in this transfer window could make a big difference. He over estimated the squad in the summer imo, will see how things are after January but I agree the signs just now aren't great.

wookie70
17-12-2016, 08:42 PM
Lennon will be deemed a success should we gain automatic promotion.
The best that he can do at this stage is put us top.
Are we top? Yes
Are we playing attractive football? No
Are we playing effective football? As we are top then the answer has to be Yes
Is there room for improvement? Yes




Are we top - yes, on goal difference
Are we playing attractive football - eye bleeding
Are we playing effective football? Not as effective as last year as we are 6 points less well off and Dundee Utd are our main rivals not The Rangers.
Is there room for improvement? Massive room for improvement but for the last few months we are spiralling downwards in terms of performance and now the points are being dropped too.

The most important questions you haven't asked.

Will we win the league - no idea. We are hot favourites but I'm not confident
Is Lennon the right man to win us the league - didn't think he was when appointed and think he has been worse than I anticipated.

Hi Heid Yin
17-12-2016, 08:48 PM
Are we top - yes, on goal difference
Are we playing attractive football - eye bleeding
Are we playing effective football? Not as effective as last year as we are 6 points less well off and Dundee Utd are our main rivals not The Rangers.
Is there room for improvement? Massive room for improvement but for the last few months we are spiralling downwards in terms of performance and now the points are being dropped too.

The most important questions you haven't asked.

Will we win the league - no idea. We are hot favourites but I'm not confident
Is Lennon the right man to win us the league - didn't think he was when appointed and think he has been worse than I anticipated.

Why would I ask questions that can't possibly be answered at this stage? As you've clearly demonstrated in your own answers

jacomo
17-12-2016, 08:49 PM
His formation was attacking and he has a good attitude but the quality of player is not great. Time for the Board to back him and the fans.

The board have backed him. He's got the best squad in the division.

You are so sellick minded it's untrue! :greengrin:

Cropley10
17-12-2016, 08:53 PM
Ray McKinnon the former Raith manager has his patchwork team assembled on the cheap and in haste on the same number of points as Neil Lennon's Hibs.

Lennon is poor and the football we've played recently is Calderwood-esque garbage. Holt and Graham are not Hibs standard.

Fair play to Morton - £18 to get in £5 for kids and my youngest was free, but that was a terrible game.

wookie70
17-12-2016, 08:56 PM
Why would I ask questions that can't possibly be answered at this stage? As you've clearly demonstrated in your own answers

If you want to do well often the most important questions are about what/where you will be in the future and how you will get there. If you don't try and answer them now its too late to do anything when the time comes. I would stick with Lennon at the moment but he is on a shoogly peg as far as I am concerned and I hope the board are thinking about the future and planning for what may need to be done. It would be fascinating to know if Lennon thinks we will win the league.

Pretty Boy
17-12-2016, 09:01 PM
Why would I ask questions that can't possibly be answered at this stage? As you've clearly demonstrated in your own answers

Yet you're happy to criticise people on another thread for questioning your hypothetical theory of us winning the leage on goal difference?

Steve20
17-12-2016, 09:06 PM
Performances under Lennon make Bobby Williamson's team look like Brazil 1970.

Hi Heid Yin
17-12-2016, 09:07 PM
Yet you're happy to criticise people on another thread for questioning your hypothetical theory of us winning the leage on goal difference?

Point taken.
Opposing views is what makes for stimulating discussion.
One of the main reasons I love Hibs.net

Canon Hannan
17-12-2016, 09:15 PM
The board have backed him. He's got the best squad in the division.

You are so sellick minded it's untrue! :greengrin:

👍😂
It would be easier to follow tic but I prefer the challenges 😂😂🙏🇳🇬

Ricky Bobby
17-12-2016, 09:16 PM
He has made a team that failed in the league last year under Stubbs worse. Fact.
Nothing to suggest he can be trusted to lead this team to promotion. We are treading water and any team that can put a run together will leave us struggling.

jacomo
17-12-2016, 09:22 PM
👍😂
It would be easier to follow tic but I prefer the challenges 😂😂🙏🇳🇬


And the real thing, obviously. :thumbsup:

I do worry - without any real evidence - that Lennon thinks this job is beneath him. If so, he needs to realise sharpish that it is he who is honoured to be employed by the original greens, not the other way around.

Canon Hannan
17-12-2016, 09:25 PM
Keep the faith my friends. A full team without injuries will win us promotion 😎👍

HibeeDaz6270
17-12-2016, 09:29 PM
I could understand if we were trying to do the right things & If we had a poor squad.

However that is not the case, He has the best squad in the league, the biggest budget, the best facilities, the best everything and our performances since he has came in have been poor. We are no longer good to watch. That makes me question the man in charge.

He has took us backwards. Yes a few signings can make a bit of a difference and very possibly get us out this league which will give him more time. I am however not convinced of his style of play or capabilities as a Manager. So far, Hes not for me.

cleanyman
17-12-2016, 09:39 PM
As I said a few weeks ago.

I'm not enjoying watching this Hibs team. Really poor and its frustrating because we can play a heck of a lot better

Swedish hibee
17-12-2016, 10:03 PM
I does my head in when folk on here go on about his signings in January..
In Summer he signed 7 players- how many more does he need/want?? And what exactly does this say about the signings he had made already.

Ricky Bobby
17-12-2016, 10:10 PM
Some of the problem was he spent half of the summer in Paris rather than dealing with the job in hand.
Gave me the feeling then that he thought the job was going to be a skoosh and was not taking the job seriously.

scoopyboy
17-12-2016, 10:13 PM
I does my head in when folk on here go on about his signings in January..
In Summer he signed 7 players- how many more does he need/want?? And what exactly does this say about the signings he had made already.

The board didn't back him financially in the summer, you can hardly accuse him of wasting money can you?

Mr White
17-12-2016, 10:18 PM
I does my head in when folk on here go on about his signings in January..
In Summer he signed 7 players- how many more does he need/want?? And what exactly does this say about the signings he had made already.

Is it 7? I count 6 and we lost 8 from last season that I can think of.

We have a lot of injuries just now too so tbh I'd be questioning his management if he wasn't looking to add to the squad in January.

Swedish hibee
17-12-2016, 10:23 PM
We use math the same as Scotland you know.. In fact better according to school leagues! Haha, glad I still have humour tonight.

Anyway, 2 goalkeepers, Shinnie, Holt, Eardley, Forster, Graham. That is 7 players.
And now Commons makes it 8.

Sir David Gray
17-12-2016, 10:25 PM
I will judge him at the end of January once he's had another window to sign players and the likes of McGinn and Fyvie are hopefully fully fit again.

Any side in this division would struggle without McGinn, Fyvie and McGeouch.

I'm far from happy at the moment but we are top just now and well clear of third place. Dundee Utd appear to be the only team that's capable of challenging us for the title and they aren't great either.

BT58
17-12-2016, 10:25 PM
Forster was here before. Renewed contract

Eyrie
17-12-2016, 10:25 PM
We use math the same as Scotland you know.. In fact better according to school leagues! Haha, glad I still have humour tonight.

Anyway, 2 goalkeepers, Shinnie, Holt, Eardley, Forster, Graham. That is 7 players.
And now Commons makes it 8.

Forster was a Hibs player last season.

Mr White
17-12-2016, 10:52 PM
We use math the same as Scotland you know.. In fact better according to school leagues! Haha, glad I still have humour tonight.

Anyway, 2 goalkeepers, Shinnie, Holt, Eardley, Forster, Graham. That is 7 players.
And now Commons makes it 8.

If you're counting forster why not count Harris too? Of course it would be wrong too but at least you'd be being consistent.

Ilovehibs
17-12-2016, 10:54 PM
We have regressed under Lennon.

Swedish hibee
17-12-2016, 11:31 PM
If you're counting forster why not count Harris too? Of course it would be wrong too but at least you'd be being consistent.

Calm down sir! No need for nasty reply- this isn't twitter.
June 7 Neil lennon signs for Hibs.
July 4 Forster resigns for Hibs under lennon as manager.
Blame Google stats.

NAE NOOKIE
17-12-2016, 11:55 PM
What concerns me is our head to head record against teams we need to beat to win the league. The main contenders like Dundee Utd, Falkirk, QOTS and Raith Rovers will not win every game they play, but its become pretty clear that we wont either. That makes the games against our nearest rivals all the more important.

So far we have picked up 4 points out of 6 against Falkirk and 1 point out of 6 against Dundee Utd .... that's 5 points out of a possible 12. We simply need to be doing better than that and with games against 3 of the hardest teams in the league in our next 3 fixtures and McGinn, Fyvie and McGeouch likely to miss all of them I for one am bloody worried about how this will pan out.

This is where Lennon is going to have to earn his corn and if he doesn't get the results we need I'll be starting to wonder if he has got what it takes, or if he was just another journeyman proving once again that any dummy can manage Celtic to the league title.

wookie70
18-12-2016, 12:03 AM
I would say Forster was a Lennon signing. He may well have been here last season but was out of contract and signed after Lennon arrived. Harris last season was and still is under contract so is not a Lennon signing. Looking at the signings he could field 7 signings in the team. That to me suggests he has had the opportunity to put his mark on a squad featuring the bulk of a buoyant Cup Winning team. I'm not surprised he is currently tracking goalkeepers as he has done quite well choosing them. For me outwith the keepers only Shinnie is a good signing with Commons still in the don't know but hopeful category. He came in quite late due to media commitments so perhaps that caused an issue but he simply must do better with the quality of player signed in January.

Sir David Gray
18-12-2016, 12:12 AM
What concerns me is our head to head record against teams we need to beat to win the league. The main contenders like Dundee Utd, Falkirk, QOTS and Raith Rovers will not win every game they play, but its become pretty clear that we wont either. That makes the games against our nearest rivals all the more important.

So far we have picked up 4 points out of 6 against Falkirk and 1 point out of 6 against Dundee Utd .... that's 5 points out of a possible 12. We simply need to be doing better than that and with games against 3 of the hardest teams in the league in our next 3 fixtures and McGinn, Fyvie and McGeouch likely to miss all of them I for one am bloody worried about how this will pan out.

This is where Lennon is going to have to earn his corn and if he doesn't get the results we need I'll be starting to wonder if he has got what it takes, or if he was just another journeyman proving once again that any dummy can manage Celtic to the league title.

I wouldn't be worried about Falkirk, in terms of challenging for the title. I can't see them making up nine points on us.

It's between us and Dundee Utd.

IberianHibernian
18-12-2016, 12:28 AM
I would say Forster was a Lennon signing. He may well have been here last season but was out of contract and signed after Lennon arrived. Harris last season was and still is under contract so is not a Lennon signing. Looking at the signings he could field 7 signings in the team. That to me suggests he has had the opportunity to put his mark on a squad featuring the bulk of a buoyant Cup Winning team. I'm not surprised he is currently tracking goalkeepers as he has done quite well choosing them. For me outwith the keepers only Shinnie is a good signing with Commons still in the don't know but hopeful category. He came in quite late due to media commitments so perhaps that caused an issue but he simply must do better with the quality of player signed in January. You`re acknowlodging that Lennon has signed 2 good goalies and that Shinnie has improved the squad but are already questioning signing of Commons who`s only been signed for one month , 24 hours before his debut ? So you consider Graham and Holt as failures after a few months and someone else as you`ve mentioned 7 signings . Did the ¨ buoyant ¨ cup winning squad not include Stokes , Henderson , Logan , Gunnarsson , Dagnall , ..who have left plus several of our best players who are out injured ? And that squad finished third and lost play off .

Man Down Under
18-12-2016, 05:57 AM
To be fair there aren't many goals getting put past us, we're just failing to take advantage of it.

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Phil MaGlass
18-12-2016, 06:27 AM
I does my head in when folk on here go on about his signings in January..
In Summer he signed 7 players- how many more does he need/want?? And what exactly does this say about the signings he had made already.

all of this:aok:

loanheadhibby
18-12-2016, 07:07 AM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was quite happy when we got Lennon but I did wonder at the time if we should have moved for McKinnon. He seems to have something about him and did a good job at Raith with limited budget.

Since90+2
18-12-2016, 07:12 AM
I would assume that Lennon has a higher budget than Stubbs ever had (higher season ticket sales and Scottish cup money) but we are going backwards. The style of football is brutal.

Last season I would have given us atleast a 50-50 chance against any Premiership team bar Celtic , I honestly woudnt fancy us against any of them this season.

He constantly changes his front 2 as I don't think he knows his best pairing or even what he wants from his forwards. IMO Cummings should start every single game as he guarantees you goals in this league. Holt and Graham definitely do not.

If we manage to get promoted this season the club will be in a really strong position and we will undoubtedly sell a record number of season tickets. This season is perhaps the most important in the clubs history by Lennon does not fill me with confidence.

Mr White
18-12-2016, 07:19 AM
Calm down sir! No need for nasty reply- this isn't twitter.
June 7 Neil lennon signs for Hibs.
July 4 Forster resigns for Hibs under lennon as manager.
Blame Google stats.

Perfectly calm thanks. The point is he added fewer players to the squad in the summer than we'd lost from last season so I would be questioning his management if he wasn't looking to strengthen in january.

Mr White
18-12-2016, 07:24 AM
I would say Forster was a Lennon signing. He may well have been here last season but was out of contract and signed after Lennon arrived. Harris last season was and still is under contract so is not a Lennon signing.

Both were registered as hibs players last season and IIRC the contract that Forster signed was on offer to him before he went on loan to Plymouth to ensure we got a development fee if he left. To use his signing as a means of criticising Lennon for still wanting to add to his squad midseason seems far fetched to me. Particularly when it would be easier to focus on the awful football and points dropped against sides we should really be tucking away with ease.

Pretty Boy
18-12-2016, 07:33 AM
Perfectly calm thanks. The point is he added fewer players to the squad in the summer than we'd lost from last season so I would be questioning his management if he wasn't looking to strengthen in january.

I've said on another thread and I think it's a valid point. How many times in recent years have we discussed the issues that need resolving in January and then actually seen ourselves kick on and improve in the 2nd half of the season?

2012 Saw us bring in a host of loans and they kept us up but it was hardly a great improvement.

2013 - We went from a top 6 position for much of the season to falling into the bottom 6.

2014 - Less said, the better.

2015 - Much the same as before the windown although a 3 game losing streak in late March, early April was a poor run.

2016 - Obviously won the cup but our league form was woeful after the window closed. 7 league games without a win between 24th February and 12th April, losing 5 of them which blew us right out of the title race.

I'm sure we are looking to strengthen in January, call me unconvinced as to whether we will manage it.

Brizo
18-12-2016, 07:39 AM
Tedious unentertaining football and an inability to score goals against poor defences are making this a slog of a season instead of what, given our resources, should be a far more comfortable campaign.

I can see us stumbling over the finish line in first place by virtue of the rest of the league (bar DUFC) being total gash. But if we were to finish second I would have serious concerns about us getting through the play off process.

Mr White
18-12-2016, 07:44 AM
I've said on another thread and I think it's a valid point. How many times in recent years have we discussed the issues that need resolving in January and then actually seen ourselves kick on and improve in the 2nd half of the season?

2012 Saw us bring in a host of loans and they kept us up but it was hardly a great improvement.

2013 - We went from a top 6 position for much of the season to falling into the bottom 6.

2014 - Less said, the better.

2015 - Much the same as before the windown although a 3 game losing streak in late March, early April was a poor run.

2016 - Obviously won the cup but our league form was woeful after the window closed. 7 league games without a win between 24th February and 12th April, losing 5 of them which blew us right out of the title race.

I'm sure we are looking to strengthen in January, call me unconvinced as to whether we will manage it.

I'm not convinced either, far from it. But would it really be better if Lennon didn't bother looking to recruit in January on the basis that previous hibs teams have often been poor from February till May?

I know it's harder to make good signings in January but 2 examples I would pick who were worthwhile would be McPake and Stokes. If we get the chance to add a couple of quality players to the squad ahead of McGinn and Fyvie returning then that could help us get back on track.

Pretty Boy
18-12-2016, 07:52 AM
I'm not convinced either, far from it. But would it really be better if Lennon didn't bother looking to recruit in January on the basis that previous hibs teams have often been poor from February till May?

I know it's harder to make good signings in January but 2 examples I would pick who were worthwhile would be McPake and Stokes. If we get the chance to add a couple of quality players to the squad ahead of McGinn and Fyvie returning then that could help us get back on track.

We absolutely must add in January. It's not even adding a couple of player to supplement what we have either imo, it's getting in players to win us the league. Someone else said on another thread we seem to have gone from a team needing minor surgery to one that looks like it could do with a full makeover.

I'm just not convinced that January will be the easy fix some think it will. The evidence suggests it rarely is and Lennon doesn't fill me with confidence either.

Ronniekirk
18-12-2016, 07:55 AM
I have been to less games at this stage of the season than the previous two
I have kept an open mind re Lennons appointment but i didnt think his signings were what we needed to improve the team and that so far has been the case imo
Last night Gragham offered nothing and most ofthe time looked disintetested Boyle runs around a lot and is an impactn player , but Lennon has given him a chance to be main striker He isnt cnsistent enough for that
Bartley was a Bombscare last night and the Morton players exploited that to the full and harrassed him Buthe was also making passes straight tobthier players when under no pressure His confidence went and he should of been subbed
I could go on ,Quality of crosses into box poor etc

Yes we remain top with some key players missing which is the positive
But Lennon cant be happy with that performace He put that team out and this lumping it long to Gragham didnt work
Passing it along the back four one pass forward then straight back gives opposition time to regroup thier defence But the lack of movement by us off the ball does my head in It makes us easy to defend against
Lennon has to be goven this window to get this sorted But he needs to show he has a system and style of play that he is bringing players into and have positions for them or its going to be square pegs in round holes ,and more performances like last night
Cummings may not be the best team player But he knows where the goal is ,so utilise his strengths ,and bring in players that can get the best out of him , as he hss proven he will get us goals consistently .
Commons showed in flashes he can spray passes about and find his man His crosses were poor to start with but with more games he will be an assett
Rant over and hope that proves to be our worst performance of the season

Mr White
18-12-2016, 07:58 AM
Someone else said on another thread we seem to have gone from a team needing minor surgery to one that looks like it could do with a full makeover.


I know it's becoming a bit of an overused defence lately but that's all to do with missing McGinn & Fyvie imo. The last game I saw before yesterday's was at Ayr and we played quite well with those 2 running the midfield and looking to put Boyle through constantly and Holt linking play reasonably well too.

Contrast that with yesterday's performance and it's hard to believe it's only 6 weeks later.



Ok those 2 injuries don't really excuse Lennon admittedly as it's his job to manage these kind of things and he's currently failing to do that.

green day
18-12-2016, 07:59 AM
We absolutely must add in January. It's not even adding a couple of player to supplement what we have either imo, it's getting in players to win us the league. Someone else said on another thread we seem to have gone from a team needing minor surgery to one that looks like it could do with a full makeover.

I'm just not convinced that January will be the easy fix some think it will. The evidence suggests it rarely is and Lennon doesn't fill me with confidence either.

If we can keep Commons for the season, and add people who can supply crosses from the wings that will help.

I know the strikers come in for criticism,but it's the supply he needs to address. They do seem to score when given adequate ball.

Someone on the left who can cross (sorry Lewis) and when we get McGinn and Fyvie and Commons in that midfield we should be ok.

Can't afford to get it wrong or bring a dud in, so suspect we will bring in more than one.

As to the "give youth a chance" comments by others, we just can't afford it this season.

NORTHERNHIBBY
18-12-2016, 09:35 AM
I am not not calling for Lennon to go but I am questioning the progress made. A few posters are saying that judging after the next window is appropriate. Not sure that I fully get that because the window should be fine tuning and we are discussing fundamental flaws which need adressed and should have been before the season started. Never one to put much faith in media punters but it's fair to say that we were consistently tipped as favourites based on what we had at that time. So what did they see that we don't?

1875M
18-12-2016, 09:54 AM
It's not as if we're playing hoofball and winning every game, which I could take. We're playing hoofball and getting mediocre results, the guy looks like he doesn't want to be here either which doesn't help his case

The Captain....
18-12-2016, 10:01 AM
Lennon doesn't look like he is enjoying it, the players don't look like they are enjoying it and I am definitely not enjoying his tenure. If he resigned I'd be delighted.

Our football is horrific under him and has been for the majority of the season. He's signed two of the poorest strikers I've seen in many a year at ER...they are gash...and has left our top scorer on the bench.

McKinnon on the other hand seems to be working wonders with a Utd team that was in absolute disarray in the Summer. He's a shrewd operator..I'd love to know what discussions (if any) took place before we brought in Lennon.






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The Modfather
18-12-2016, 10:09 AM
To be fair there aren't many goals getting put past us, we're just failing to take advantage of it.

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A large part of that is because we play 6 defensive players most games. Regardless if the fixture is Dundee Utd away or Dumbarton at home.

WhileTheChief..
18-12-2016, 10:14 AM
Neil Lennon is absolutely the right man for the job, I've got no doubts about it.

Its not pretty right now but we're still right up there and will be at the end of the season.

He's got my support 100%.

#FromTheCapital
18-12-2016, 10:14 AM
Reading this forum makes being a hibs fan much worse than it actually is, so much negativity. It was always going to be difficult last night. We're still top and I still believe we will win this league.

Deansy
18-12-2016, 10:16 AM
Lennon doesn't look like he is enjoying it, the players don't look like they are enjoying it and I am definitely not enjoying his tenure. If he resigned I'd be delighted.

Our football is horrific under him and has been for the majority of the season. He's signed two of the poorest strikers I've seen in many a year at ER...they are gash...and has left our top scorer on the bench.

McKinnon on the other hand seems to be working wonders with a Utd team that was in absolute disarray in the Summer. He's a shrewd operator..I'd love to know what discussions (if any) took place before we brought in Lennon.






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One difference I've noticed from last season - all the 'He's great to play for/couldn't be happier' interviews from the players under Stubbs, don't seem to be replicated under Lennon.

J-C
18-12-2016, 10:16 AM
We use math the same as Scotland you know.. In fact better according to school leagues! Haha, glad I still have humour tonight.

Anyway, 2 goalkeepers, Shinnie, Holt, Eardley, Forster, Graham. That is 7 players.
And now Commons makes it 8.

Forster was already here, by your logic Hanlon is a new signing.
Earnley is purely cover, no more and is away next month, keepers were a priority but Holt and Graham have disappointed.

Heisenberg
18-12-2016, 10:18 AM
One difference I've noticed from last season - all the 'He's great to play for/couldn't be happier' interviews from the players under Stubbs, don't seem to be replicated under Lennon.

He's there to be the manager and not their friend. These are the same players who have failed to win promotion for two seasons now as well. Time they stepped up to the plate in the league now too.

Greenworld
18-12-2016, 11:00 AM
We absolutely must add in January. It's not even adding a couple of player to supplement what we have either imo, it's getting in players to win us the league. Someone else said on another thread we seem to have gone from a team needing minor surgery to one that looks like it could do with a full makeover.

I'm just not convinced that January will be the easy fix some think it will. The evidence suggests it rarely is and Lennon doesn't fill me with confidence either.
100% agree the injuries need to be taken in to account to loose Fyvie and mcginn is a sore one for anyone to deal with. Deal with it we must though and we need to burst the bank and get a few real deal players in.
Also needs to stop whatever was going on with JC and play him

He's there to be the manager and not their friend. These are the same players who have failed to win promotion for two seasons now as well. Time they stepped up to the plate in the league now too.


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southsider
18-12-2016, 11:10 AM
The football was like watching paint dry. After Jason scores we pull of Boyle and put on a centre half. Says it all for me about NL.

Jim44
18-12-2016, 11:14 AM
The football was like watching paint dry. After Jason scores we pull of Boyle and put on a centre half. Says it all for me about NL.

At one down, I said that I would settle for a draw if we could grab a goal. When we did, I thought that I was settling for too little too early but then Lennon goes defensive and settles for the draw. Disappointing.

Ozyhibby
18-12-2016, 11:27 AM
I will reserve judgement on Lennon till after the January window. He must bring in quality that will improve the team.
The summer signings were terrible with only Marciano an improvement on what we had last season when we finished behind Falkirk.
We really need to show our intent in January.


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WeeRussell
18-12-2016, 11:34 AM
We're top of the league because of the quality of this league. But at least we are top.

I don't look forward to games coming like I did last season.. says it all for me. But people keep saying all that matters is getting out of this league, and if that's the case, I still think we'll be okay. Not convinced we needed to fork out for the highest salary we've ever paid a manager to do this though...

WhileTheChief..
18-12-2016, 11:37 AM
If Lennon had made wholesale changes to our cup winning side in the summer folk on here would have been up in arms.

Remember the feel good factor was at its peak and every member of the squad were seen as heroes.

Then you read in the news that Stevenson, Hanlon, Gray, Boyle and Cummings were being replaced and that Stokes and Henderson had left.

Imagine the reaction on here!

Lennon saw a settled team that needed a few additions. Most of us would have agreed.

Now he'll be seeing a team that largely needs to be replaced.

Ozyhibby
18-12-2016, 11:47 AM
If Lennon had made wholesale changes to our cup winning side in the summer folk on here would have been up in arms.

Remember the feel good factor was at its peak and every member of the squad were seen as heroes.

Then you read in the news that Stevenson, Hanlon, Gray, Boyle and Cummings were being replaced and that Stokes and Henderson had left.

Imagine the reaction on here!

Lennon saw a settled team that needed a few additions. Most of us would have agreed.

Now he'll be seeing a team that largely needs to be replaced.

Proper wing backs and a couple of players back from injury and we will be fine.
Probably need a striker as well now that he realises he signed two duds in the summer.


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southsider
18-12-2016, 12:32 PM
At least he admitted he should have started with Jason. Pace is lacking to our team in forward areas. Must address this in the window.

SRHibs
18-12-2016, 12:46 PM
The board have backed him. He's got the best squad in the division.

You are so sellick minded it's untrue! :greengrin:

The board haven't backed him. I think they will do so in this transfer window though.

RIP Bestie
18-12-2016, 01:09 PM
The board haven't backed him. I think they will do so in this transfer window though.

You are at it.
Going by his signings up til now, if I were the board I would think twice about giving him any more money to squander in January.
Never wanted the man, don't like him, don't like his tactics, don't like his style of football. He is not a good manager. He can go anytime for me.

Swedish hibee
18-12-2016, 01:17 PM
The board haven't backed him.

Completely disagree.

nickwhibs
18-12-2016, 01:18 PM
You are at it.
Going by his signings up til now, if I were the board I would think twice about giving him any more money to squander in January.
Never wanted the man, don't like him, don't like his tactics, don't like his style of football. He is not a good manager. He can go anytime for me.

Let's give the guy a chance. It's not been pretty so far I agree, but we're only barely half the way through the season. Despite his apparent style of football, the players need to step it up considerably. I'm sure Lennon will bring in pace in January which will hopefully make the difference.

northstandhibby
18-12-2016, 01:20 PM
Yesterday's match was played in the correct style by Lenny. He set the team out to play a passing game. The problem for me was the final ball in to the forwards could have been better and a bit quicker. Grant Holt was almost anonymous. He should not be starting games for us just now. For me Brian Graham was by far the better of the two and if he had Cummings or Keatings alongside him it would have been a much better attacking front two with Boyle in support. If so I think we would have won that game no problem.

Start with Graham and Cummings/Keatings with a better quicker ball into them, give them a run of games together and it could make all the difference.

Since90+2
18-12-2016, 01:23 PM
Yesterday's match was played in the correct style by Lenny. He set the team out to play a passing game. The problem for me was the final ball in to the forwards albeit Grant Holt was almost anonymous. He should not be starting games for us just now. For me Brian Graham was by far the better of the two. If he had Cummings or Keatings alongside him it would have been a much better attacking front two with Boyle in support and I think we would have won that game no problem.

Start with Graham and Cummings/Keatings and a better quicker ball into them we will have a very decent strike-force.

Holt was on the bench yesterday?

northstandhibby
18-12-2016, 01:26 PM
Holt was on the bench yesterday?

Thats why he was anonymous!!!! :greengrin

Must have missed that. I genuinely thought Holt had been playing? Was it just Boyle and Graham?

Cummings and Keatings should be starting with Graham instead though, no doubt.

blackpoolhibs
18-12-2016, 01:27 PM
Yesterday's match was played in the correct style by Lenny. He set the team out to play a passing game. The problem for me was the final ball in to the forwards could have been better and a bit quicker. Grant Holt was almost anonymous. He should not be starting games for us just now. For me Brian Graham was by far the better of the two and if he had Cummings or Keatings alongside him it would have been a much better attacking front two with Boyle in support. If so I think we would have won that game no problem.

Start with Graham and Cummings/Keatings with a better quicker ball into them, give them a run of games together and it could make all the difference.


:faf:

Since90+2
18-12-2016, 01:28 PM
Thats why he was anonymous!!!! :greengrin

Must have missed that. I genuinely thought Holt had been playing? Was it just Boyle and Graham?

He came on with about 20 minutes to go. To be fair I agree he should not be starting.

Forward line was Graham and Boyle with Commons in behind them.

Cummings must start next week.

Ricky Bobby
18-12-2016, 01:54 PM
Yesterday's match was played in the correct style by Lenny. He set the team out to play a passing game. The problem for me was the final ball in to the forwards could have been better and a bit quicker. Grant Holt was almost anonymous. He should not be starting games for us just now. For me Brian Graham was by far the better of the two and if he had Cummings or Keatings alongside him it would have been a much better attacking front two with Boyle in support. If so I think we would have won that game no problem.

Start with Graham and Cummings/Keatings with a better quicker ball into them, give them a run of games together and it could make all the difference.

On the wind up.

Hermit Crab
18-12-2016, 01:59 PM
His formation was attacking and he has a good attitude but the quality of player is not great. Time for the Board to back him and the fans.


Thats what needs to happen. Money has to be spent in January.

northstandhibby
18-12-2016, 02:00 PM
On the wind up.

Definitely was not on the wind-up. Wouldn't normally respond to this kind of remark but how was I 'on the wind up'?

Just got a bit mixed up that's all. Is that a crime?

GGTTH

RIP Bestie
18-12-2016, 02:07 PM
The board haven't backed him. I think they will do so in this transfer window though.

You are at it.
Going by his signings up til now, if I were the board I would think twice about giving him any more money to squander in January.
Never wanted the man, don't like him, don't like his tactics, don't like his style of football. He is not a good manager. He can go anytime for me.

Hermit Crab
18-12-2016, 02:14 PM
You are at it.
Going by his signings up til now, if I were the board I would think twice about giving him any more money to squander in January.
Never wanted the man, don't like him, don't like his tactics, don't like his style of football. He is not a good manager. He can go anytime for me.


Because you sack/push your manager out the door when you're top of the league right enough.........:rolleyes:

SRHibs
18-12-2016, 02:15 PM
You are at it.
Going by his signings up til now, if I were the board I would think twice about giving him any more money to squander in January.
Never wanted the man, don't like him, don't like his tactics, don't like his style of football. He is not a good manager. He can go anytime for me.

I'm not at all. I'm happy to give him until the end of the season as I'm pretty sure he'll get us automatic promotion. Hopefully we see an improvement in the football too.

Baldy Foghorn
18-12-2016, 02:24 PM
You are at it.
Going by his signings up til now, if I were the board I would think twice about giving him any more money to squander in January.
Never wanted the man, don't like him, don't like his tactics, don't like his style of football. He is not a good manager. He can go anytime for me.

You don't like him, get over yourself...........

BSEJVT
18-12-2016, 02:37 PM
On the wind up.

Has to be

Its frightening to think otherwise

BSEJVT
18-12-2016, 02:40 PM
Definitely was not on the wind-up. Wouldn't normally respond to this kind of remark but how was I 'on the wind up'?

Just got a bit mixed up that's all. Is that a crime?

GGTTH

If you honestly believe what you saw about setting the team up to play passing football then I despair.

The ball was hoofed from front to back aimlessly virtually all night in a style straight out the Craig Levein playbook.

Anyone who things Marvin Bartley for all his other qualities is remotely capable of playing passing football knows nothing of the game.

Ricky Bobby
18-12-2016, 02:41 PM
Definitely was not on the wind-up. Wouldn't normally respond to this kind of remark but how was I 'on the wind up'?

Just got a bit mixed up that's all. Is that a crime?

GGTTH

My bad. Never seen your follow up post. Sorry mate.
Although i dont think we played the game in the right fashion or that we did not get the ball forward early enough. It was shelled from back to front for the entire 90 mins.

truehibernian
18-12-2016, 02:45 PM
If you honestly believe what you saw about setting the team up to play passing football then I despair.

The ball was hoofed from front to back aimlessly virtually all night in a style straight out the Craig Levein playbook.

Anyone who things Marvin Bartley for all his other qualities is remotely capable of playing passing football knows nothing of the game.

I must have watched a different game. In the last 20 we went long too often, but we were constantly trying to go through Shinnie and get it out wide, both ending with poor final delivery from Gray and Lewy too often.

Bartley got caught in possession too often for my liking but he was continually circulating the ball, keeping it moving, and starting attacks with simple passing to the 'creative' players.

It was a very poor performance, in particular first half, but fair play to Morton for a very hard working and industrious display - we have to give them enormous credit too.

BSEJVT
18-12-2016, 02:51 PM
Whilst changing manager at this time is completely unthinkable, I think Lennon is getting a far easier ride than results and tactics in particular deserve, in the mistaken belief that he was hung out to dry by the board in the Summer transfer window and that a raft of new recruits in the winter window will save our season.

Lennon's job is to work with the players at his disposal.

I defy anyone to tell me that the majority of those players are performing better now as individuals than they were last season.

I honestly cannot think of one who has improved, the closest would be Boyle but he has been abysmal the last 3 games.

Its clear that Lennon's beliefs are in negative defensive football and his starting point is to preserve the point we start each game with before anything else.

The 5 defenders and at least one holding midfielder nonsense we witness week in week out are testament to this.

Unfortunately however even the best defensive teams in the world, which we are not, are prone to losing the odd goal to far inferior opponents and this happens regularly to us.

We then have the devil of a job with the personnel deployed of upping the ante and scoring the goals required to win us the game and league.

Hearts and Rangers won this league at a canter by battering teams from the get go, not allowing them to dictate the tempo of games in the hope that our superior ability can eventually overcome.

I am hugely concerned by how we have played this season, even before the raft of injuries which haven't helped at all.

On top of that we are brutal to watch.

IMO his only hope is to sign players capable of creating something and of adding a bit of pace and urgency to the team.

Its a nap certainty that those players wont be promoted from the development squad so we had better hope that the next raft of signings is a lot better than the first.

BSEJVT
18-12-2016, 02:57 PM
I must have watched a different game. In the last 20 we went long too often, but we were constantly trying to go through Shinnie and get it out wide, both ending with poor final delivery from Gray and Lewy too often.

Bartley got caught in possession too often for my liking but he was continually circulating the ball, keeping it moving, and starting attacks with simple passing to the 'creative' players.

It was a very poor performance, in particular first half, but fair play to Morton for a very hard working and industrious display - we have to give them enormous credit too.

Sorry I cant agree with that at all.

The only period we might have actually tried to play football was in the period after Holt came on, up until their goal.

I like Bartley and he would do a job in the SPL breaking up play, he is however an absolutely horrible footballer with the ball at his feet and has a total lack of awareness of anything other that that which is slap bang in front of him.

I am interested in the "creative" players you thought we had on show?

IMO only Shinnie, who was woeful as is his want from time to time and Commons who was played so far forward he was looking to benefit from that creation rather than supply it could fall into that description IMO

Ricky Bobby
18-12-2016, 03:00 PM
Whilst changing manager at this time is completely unthinkable, I think Lennon is getting a far easier ride than results and tactics in particular deserve, in the mistaken belief that he was hung out to dry by the board in the Summer transfer window and that a raft of new recruits in the winter window will save our season.

Lennon's job is to work with the players at his disposal.

I defy anyone to tell me that the majority of those players are performing better now as individuals than they were last season.

I honestly cannot think of one who has improved, the closest would be Boyle but he has been abysmal the last 3 games.

Its clear that Lennon's beliefs are in negative defensive football and his starting point is to preserve the point we start each game with before anything else.

The 5 defenders and at least one holding midfielder nonsense we witness week in week out are testament to this.

Unfortunately however even the best defensive teams in the world, which we are not, are prone to losing the odd goal to far inferior opponents and this happens regularly to us.

We then have the devil of a job with the personnel deployed of upping the ante and scoring the goals required to win us the game and league.

Hearts and Rangers won this league at a canter by battering teams from the get go, not allowing them to dictate the tempo of games in the hope that our superior ability can eventually overcome.

I am hugely concerned by how we have played this season, even before the raft of injuries which haven't helped at all.

On top of that we are brutal to watch.

IMO his only hope is to sign players capable of creating something and of adding a bit of pace and urgency to the team.

Its a nap certainty that those players wont be promoted from the development squad so we had better hope that the next raft of signings is a lot better than the first.

I agree with everything in your post other than the opening line.
We are top of the league just now, but with no momentum whatsoever, I think he is on the verge of completely losing the fans. The christmas and new year results will determine his future.

Lago
18-12-2016, 03:28 PM
If Lennon had made wholesale changes to our cup winning side in the summer folk on here would have been up in arms.

Remember the feel good factor was at its peak and every member of the squad were seen as heroes.

Then you read in the news that Stevenson, Hanlon, Gray, Boyle and Cummings were being replaced and that Stokes and Henderson had left.

Imagine the reaction on here!

Lennon saw a settled team that needed a few additions. Most of us would have agreed.

Now he'll be seeing a team that largely needs to be replaced.

Spot on. The criticisms that are being made today, if people are honest, were being made last season, as 2nd place in the league slipped away from Hibs. Yes folks we didn't even make 2nd place because, according to the experts here on .net we needed pace & width and, had to get rid of Stokes because he wasn't doing the business. Also as the manager had had 2 seasons to get us out of this league should we hold off sacking him until the end of the season or do it now.
It is unfortuate that injuries have hit the squad hard, but I really think Hibs will come good, not sure about skoooshing it though.

northstandhibby
18-12-2016, 03:47 PM
My bad. Never seen your follow up post. Sorry mate.
Although i dont think we played the game in the right fashion or that we did not get the ball forward early enough. It was shelled from back to front for the entire 90 mins.

:aok:

Cheers mate, apreciate it. Unfortunately couldn't be at the match and watched it on Alba. Normally at the match I'd get a programme and look at the line up. Genuine mistake in between making my tea and then being hassled because strictly was coming on before it finished.

Agree did not get the ball forward quickly or intelligently enough and the crossing was very poor once again. Cummings and/or Keatings should have been Graham's partner up front with Boyle on the wing.

NORTHERNHIBBY
18-12-2016, 04:55 PM
If we set up to play a passing game then the players will be getting hammered on Monday. From what I saw six defenders leaves not enough midfielders and the only way to get a final ball is to shell it from the back and fight for the second ball. Doing that on arguably the best playing surface in Scotland has to be questioned. The team set up to play a passing ball to feet game was the home side yet none of them would be individually good enough to get in our side.

RIP Bestie
18-12-2016, 06:52 PM
You don't like him, get over yourself...........

I'm over myself. Whenever that means.
What has he done that could possibly make me think he was the right appointment?
He is and always will be a devisive character and for me, was the wrong appointment. He has done nowt to disprove that

CockneyRebel
18-12-2016, 07:49 PM
I would say Forster was a Lennon signing. He may well have been here last season but was out of contract and signed after Lennon arrived. Harris last season was and still is under contract so is not a Lennon signing. Looking at the signings he could field 7 signings in the team. That to me suggests he has had the opportunity to put his mark on a squad featuring the bulk of a buoyant Cup Winning team. I'm not surprised he is currently tracking goalkeepers as he has done quite well choosing them. For me outwith the keepers only Shinnie is a good signing with Commons still in the don't know but hopeful category. He came in quite late due to media commitments so perhaps that caused an issue but he simply must do better with the quality of player signed in January.

I think you can only play one goalkeeper at a time.

Baldy Foghorn
18-12-2016, 07:55 PM
I'm over myself. Whenever that means.
What has he done that could possibly make me think he was the right appointment?
He is and always will be a devisive character and for me, was the wrong appointment. He has done nowt to disprove that

So who would you have wanted after AS?

fulshie
18-12-2016, 08:12 PM
We started the season flying and I put that down to us still playing Stubbsy's way but then Lennon started to get the style he wanted to play through to our players and it hasn't been good but, still good enough to be top of the league with a depleted midfield. If we're still top after our game against Dundee Utd on 6th Jan then I'll be happy. After this, our midfielders should be coming back, Commons will be fitter and there could be a couple of new faces in the squad. I'm not completely happy with the way we're playing but I genuinely believe we will improve when we have a full , fit, squad.

wookie70
18-12-2016, 08:18 PM
I think you can only play one goalkeeper at a time.

Rocky, Eardley, Forster, Shinnie, Holt, Graham, Commons. That makes 7 to me. Lennon was in post as manager when they all signed. His players his decisions. Laidlaw could play the Bartley role on last nights viewing but I wouldn't go that far myself.

southfieldhibby
18-12-2016, 08:52 PM
The football was like watching paint dry. After Jason scores we pull of Boyle and put on a centre half. Says it all for me about NL.

On this specific point, they started to target Boyle with long balls, he didn't win one. Lennon had to bring on someone to combat that. It was obvious.

MacGruber
19-12-2016, 07:33 AM
If Lennon remains hibs manager for the rest of the season it's Dundee Utds title IMO.

Lennons hibs wouldn't come through the playoffs either sadly.

JimBHibees
19-12-2016, 07:37 AM
If Lennon remains hibs manager for the rest of the season it's Dundee Utds title IMO.

Lennons hibs wouldn't come through the playoffs either sadly.

Could you let me know what the next Lotto numbers are Nostradamus?

MacGruber
19-12-2016, 08:03 AM
Could you let me know what the next Lotto numbers are Nostradamus?

Lol - unfortunately not ;)
If I could id win it myself and buy him out.
I think he is a good bloke, a nice guy. Just a rubbish manager for hibs. Also hope he reads these posts and rams them down my throat by storming away with it after blitzing United at Easter Road. Can't see it though.

HappyHanlon
19-12-2016, 08:20 AM
I don't trust Lennon to get us up.

I can count on one hand how many good performances we've had this season.

He was brought in for 1 task and should be instant dismissal if we do not go up.

Green-Hibee-7
19-12-2016, 09:03 AM
I actually really like the guy. As a player he was class at what he done. When you take the Celtic connection away he talks well and comes across as a much more likeable guy than he ever was on the park.

He's suspect as a manager though. As soon as holt & graham were brought in I feared the worse. People on here claimed we needed these types of players to get us up. I disagreed. Launching the ball upto to these two plays into the hands of the teams we are up against. For 3 years now we have not addressed the wide/wing position in an attacking sense which is how both hearts and rangers skooshed the league. I'll hold totally writing him off until after January - I hope he brings in decent wide players. Although I'd argue only Rocky and shinnie have impressed from a signings front.

Having to play a little and large 2 up front annoys me. And if what has been served the last few weeks particularly away from home is what his style is then I'd be happy if he gets us up and we mutually part-ways. It's early days but it's eye bleeding stuff.

pacoluna
19-12-2016, 09:40 AM
Can anyone give me a suitable replacement for NL? you can't just keep switching managers it's nonsense. Those moaning about playing bad football are the same guys moaning last season about us playing decent football but getting no results! last season we would have got beat on Saturday. its ludicrous to question NL when its not even Jan yet and we are sitting top of the league giving the fact we haven't been playing particularly well yet we still sit above Mckinnons Dundee united who people seem to be raving about! instead of praising other managers give NL a break his task is to take us up and we are on course to do that. One thing I would wish he would do though is show a bit more gumption and drop Stevenson! absolutely dire.

Northernhibee
19-12-2016, 09:48 AM
Can anyone give me a suitable replacement for NL? you can't just keep switching managers it's nonsense. Those moaning about playing bad football are the same guys moaning last season about us playing decent football but getting no results! last season we would have got beat on Saturday. its ludicrous to question NL when its not even Jan yet and we are sitting top of the league giving the fact we haven't been playing particularly well yet we still sit above Mckinnons Dundee united who people seem to be raving about! instead of praising other managers give NL a break his task is to take us up and we are on course to do that. One thing I would wish he would do though is show a bit more gumption and drop Stevenson! absolutely dire.

Constantly sacking managers is the reason we're in this league. If Pat had run to the end of his contract we'd have finished 7th or 8th, got a new manager in and had the chance to rebuild from there.

greenpaper55
19-12-2016, 10:17 AM
I have calmed down a bit since Saturday and am trying to put the Morton game in perspective, last season we lost six games in as many weeks to Alloa, Morton, Raith, Queens and Dumbarton ! On Saturday the football was shall we say industrial but it made sure we did not lose . I wish we could win like arsenal every week but in this league on tight grounds when every opponent is playing out of their skins against you then it is very difficult, still a long way to go and if we can add to the squad we should be alright.

emerald green
19-12-2016, 10:43 AM
I think a lot of the concern, and/or criticism being directed at Neil Lennon is because although Hibs currently lead the Championship, on goal difference, many people got carried away by the silly talk about Hibs "skooshing" the league, with some folk even suggesting it would be won by Christmas. How's that looking right now, and how long will Hibs continue to stay in the lead?

Hilarious, unrealistic, knock-about stuff was getting put about. Maybe folk got carried away in the euphoria after the cup win? Perhaps understandable.

Some supporters are still saying Hibs are on course to win it. They might, they might not, but current performances are not really indicative of a team looking like they are about to win a league easily. That's what's making (some) people nervous.

The consequences of staying down for a fourth season would be very severe for the club financially. Not to mention watching another season of awful "park the bus", and hammer throwers kicking us off the park. That's for those who continue to attend. It won't be crowds of 14,000+ I'd suggest.

The manager is the guy who gets the blame, rightly or wrongly. He ultimately carries the can.

PS: No "bed wetter" stuff please. It's boring, lazy, and played-out. Thanks.

blackpoolhibs
19-12-2016, 11:18 AM
I think a lot of the concern, and/or criticism being directed at Neil Lennon is because although Hibs currently lead the Championship, on goal difference, many people got carried away by the silly talk about Hibs "skooshing" the league, with some folk even suggesting it would be won by Christmas. How's that looking right now, and how long will Hibs continue to stay in the lead?

Hilarious, unrealistic, knock-about stuff was getting put about. Maybe folk got carried away in the euphoria after the cup win? Perhaps understandable.

Some supporters are still saying Hibs are on course to win it. They might, they might not, but current performances are not really indicative of a team looking like they are about to win a league easily. That's what's making (some) people nervous.

The consequences of staying down for a fourth season would be very severe for the club financially. Not to mention watching another season of awful "park the bus", and hammer throwers kicking us off the park. That's for those who continue to attend. It won't be crowds of 14,000+ I'd suggest.

The manager is the guy who gets the blame, rightly or wrongly. He ultimately carries the can.

PS: No "bed wetter" stuff please. It's boring, lazy, and played-out. Thanks.

I was never in the skoosh it camp, i as quietly confident we'd win the league, and i was confident for a few reasons.

1 we had just won the cup, we all know what confidence is supposed to do for a club/team.

2 the other teams were nowhere near as good as we were.

3 Dundee Utd were in turmoil.

4 we've had 2 seasons to get used to this league, the players surely know whats needed to win it by now.

5 we had a new manager, one who's been in this position in the SPL, a manager with a bigger budget than the rest.

Now i dont see any confident players, the other teams are matching us better than i thought they would. Dundee Utd are not in turmoil, the players dont look as if they know how to win this league, and the new manager has made us worse.

January is as an important month as i have ever known, get it right and we might go on and win this league, get it wrong and i see a play off place, and we know how Falkirk got on last season, and sevco the season before.

Lago
19-12-2016, 12:20 PM
I don't trust Lennon to get us up.

I can count on one hand how many good performances we've had this season.

He was brought in for 1 task and should be instant dismissal if we do not go up.
And why were those rules not applied to AS?

jacomo
19-12-2016, 12:24 PM
And why were those rules not applied to AS?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No need to wind up Hibs.net - people are wound up already.

pacoluna
19-12-2016, 12:40 PM
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No need to wind up Hibs.net - people are wound up already.

not everyone on hibs.net disagrees with him. I fully believe in NL and think it is extremely harsh to judge him before Jan considering AS was giving two seasons! with failure.

GreenNWhiteArmy
19-12-2016, 12:41 PM
Season Review so far;

we won the first 5 games of the season with an aggregate of 11-2 and played some nice football in that period. we then had a 4 game winless run (2 of which we had a man sent off and red card subsequently rescinded, the dundee utd game we dominated and should have won and QOTS were unbeaten at that point so a tough away game)

that was then followed up by winning 4 out of the next 5 games (only game we didnt win was Falkirk when they went down to 10 and played every man in their own half and we couldnt break them down) the other 4 games we won by AT LEAST a 2 goal margin

Then on to Dec, a poor game away to United was lost because of us missing a pen. Then a disapponting performance but a 2-0 win over Dumbarton followed by the weekend's draw at Morton (mind when we drew there and scraped a 1-0 win last season?)

looking at the season overall, i'm sorry but i cant go along with everyone who is of the opinion that they have no faith in our manager. We've been without our midfield duo (one that takes the ball from the defense and will get stuck in and another that has drive and energy) so for me naturally our style will alter in that period but to suggest we've been rubbish most of the season is utter drivel not just in my opinion but as a matter of fact as per our results.

It may not be pretty at times, but its effective so far and i've got absolutely no doubt we will win the league at the 3rd time of asking

Lago
19-12-2016, 01:53 PM
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No need to wind up Hibs.net - people are wound up already.
Obtuse, now thats a big word. No I am not at the wind up I think I asked a reasonable question, yet to get a reasonable answer.

Lago
19-12-2016, 01:55 PM
:top marks
Season Review so far;

we won the first 5 games of the season with an aggregate of 11-2 and played some nice football in that period. we then had a 4 game winless run (2 of which we had a man sent off and red card subsequently rescinded, the dundee utd game we dominated and should have won and QOTS were unbeaten at that point so a tough away game)

that was then followed up by winning 4 out of the next 5 games (only game we didnt win was Falkirk when they went down to 10 and played every man in their own half and we couldnt break them down) the other 4 games we won by AT LEAST a 2 goal margin

Then on to Dec, a poor game away to United was lost because of us missing a pen. Then a disapponting performance but a 2-0 win over Dumbarton followed by the weekend's draw at Morton (mind when we drew there and scraped a 1-0 win last season?)

looking at the season overall, i'm sorry but i cant go along with everyone who is of the opinion that they have no faith in our manager. We've been without our midfield duo (one that takes the ball from the defense and will get stuck in and another that has drive and energy) so for me naturally our style will alter in that period but to suggest we've been rubbish most of the season is utter drivel not just in my opinion but as a matter of fact as per our results.

It may not be pretty at times, but its effective so far and i've got absolutely no doubt we will win the league at the 3rd time of asking

Hermit Crab
19-12-2016, 02:08 PM
If Lennon remains hibs manager for the rest of the season it's Dundee Utds title IMO.

Lennons hibs wouldn't come through the playoffs either sadly.


C'mon that's a tad harsh. We will pick up and utd are still to come unstuck too.

HappyHanlon
19-12-2016, 04:22 PM
And why were those rules not applied to AS?

Well the first season was his debut season.
2nd season, he was dismissed (sorry TOLD to take Rotheham job and leave a hero).

Lennon is an experienced manager in Scotland. His reputation and achievements in Scottish football was the reason for his appointment.

Super_JMcGinn
19-12-2016, 04:57 PM
And why were those rules not applied to AS?

It was Stubbsy's first managerial role for one, and secondly he brought us the Holy Grail.

Lennon was supposedly this guy with all the experience and would skoosh this league, I'm yet to be convinced.

Baldy Foghorn
19-12-2016, 05:00 PM
Well the first season was his debut season.
2nd season, he was dismissed (sorry TOLD to take Rotheham job and leave a hero).

Lennon is an experienced manager in Scotland. His reputation and achievements in Scottish football was the reason for his appointment.

:faf:

ancient hibee
19-12-2016, 05:05 PM
Season Review so far;

we won the first 5 games of the season with an aggregate of 11-2 and played some nice football in that period. we then had a 4 game winless run (2 of which we had a man sent off and red card subsequently rescinded, the dundee utd game we dominated and should have won and QOTS were unbeaten at that point so a tough away game)

that was then followed up by winning 4 out of the next 5 games (only game we didnt win was Falkirk when they went down to 10 and played every man in their own half and we couldnt break them down) the other 4 games we won by AT LEAST a 2 goal margin

Then on to Dec, a poor game away to United was lost because of us missing a pen. Then a disapponting performance but a 2-0 win over Dumbarton followed by the weekend's draw at Morton (mind when we drew there and scraped a 1-0 win last season?)

looking at the season overall, i'm sorry but i cant go along with everyone who is of the opinion that they have no faith in our manager. We've been without our midfield duo (one that takes the ball from the defense and will get stuck in and another that has drive and energy) so for me naturally our style will alter in that period but to suggest we've been rubbish most of the season is utter drivel not just in my opinion but as a matter of fact as per our results.

It may not be pretty at times, but its effective so far and i've got absolutely no doubt we will win the league at the 3rd time of asking


If you're going to post sensible,right on the button posts I shall have to ask the admins to ban you.:top marksi

euro Hibby
19-12-2016, 05:20 PM
Long way to go yet. I think 19 games or similar. When we win 1-0 amd play badly everyone seems happy. We have played poorly of late but we are not losing except at Dundee where we missed a penalty and they scored one.
Everyone wanted a couple of big men in to win this league so now we have them , nobody is too happy.

Youi have to remember what the champiuonship level is. Most of the players coming in a free transfers. The manager does not fancy giving youth a shot right now probabbly because he sees experienced guys struggling or he is scared what the board might do to them if they screw up a pass or 2.

In short, form is poor, missing some key players but you have to believe that with continued support ( 12 th man ) we can get back up. I watch the games on Hibs TV. i watched Naples Torino yesterday ( 5-3 ) different class in attack, ropey defending........

HoboHarry
19-12-2016, 06:04 PM
If you're going to post sensible,right on the button posts I shall have to ask the admins to ban you.:top marksi
Bleeding heart liberal that you are. We should march to his house with flaming torches and pitch forks......

:wink:

RIP Bestie
19-12-2016, 06:07 PM
So who would you have wanted after AS?

That's not my job.
Importantly because I don't know who all the candidates were or who would have been available to us.
Personally though, if I was in the position, had the resource and as you asked, I would have moved mountains for Michael O'Neil. Neil Lennon would never have made a long list never mind a short list.

GreenNWhiteArmy
19-12-2016, 07:00 PM
Bleeding heart liberal that you are. We should march to his house with flaming torches and pitch forks......

:wink:

Top flat actually so better bring along some ladders as well 😛 haha

cabbageandribs1875
19-12-2016, 07:13 PM
That's not my job.
Importantly because I don't know who all the candidates were or who would have been available to us.
Personally though, if I was in the position, had the resource and as you asked, I would have moved mountains for Michael O'Neil. Neil Lennon would never have made a long list never mind a short list.


might be out a bit but i'm sure Michael o'neil signed a new 4 year extension for norn ireland a month or two before we started looking for a new manager, that would have meant a heck of a mega compensation payment required

Lago
19-12-2016, 07:30 PM
Well the first season was his debut season.
2nd season, he was dismissed (sorry TOLD to take Rotheham job and leave a hero).

Lennon is an experienced manager in Scotland. His reputation and achievements in Scottish football was the reason for his appointment.
I seem to remember discontent at the thought of AS being here for a 3rd season & rumbles of he should go. You could say this is NL debut season in the championship so perhaphs he should get the same pass as AS was.

Lago
19-12-2016, 07:35 PM
It was Stubbsy's first managerial role for one, and secondly he brought us the Holy Grail.

Lennon was supposedly this guy with all the experience and would skoosh this league, I'm yet to be convinced.
The skoosh the league didn't come from Lennon, it came from here so don't hang that on him. Yes Stubbs won the cup which was just as well otherwise he would have left under a real cloud.

Baldy Foghorn
19-12-2016, 07:58 PM
Top of the league, NL has been in charge only 6 Months....Are some really desperate to hound him out ??

Maybe we should back the team, be more vocal, and drive team forward....(It might just be fun)

3pm
19-12-2016, 08:11 PM
Top of the league, NL has been in charge only 6 Months....Are some really desperate to hound him out ??

Maybe we should back the team, be more vocal, and drive team forward....(It might just be fun)

I haven't really read the thread S, but I can understand why there are concerns. He shouldn't get fired but he has a lot of hard work ahead of him to ensure we win the league. He must do better, as must the players for that matter.

Baldy Foghorn
19-12-2016, 08:18 PM
I haven't really read the thread S, but I can understand why there are concerns. He shouldn't get fired but he has a lot of hard work ahead of him to ensure we win the league. He must do better, as must the players for that matter.

Think NL will not be happy himself, and knows the level of work required to get us promoted.

Have to back him whilst he's here, and players need to step up to the plate

hibees 7062
19-12-2016, 08:24 PM
Can anyone give me a suitable replacement for NL? you can't just keep switching managers it's nonsense. Those moaning about playing bad football are the same guys moaning last season about us playing decent football but getting no results! last season we would have got beat on Saturday. its ludicrous to question NL when its not even Jan yet and we are sitting top of the league giving the fact we haven't been playing particularly well yet we still sit above Mckinnons Dundee united who people seem to be raving about! instead of praising other managers give NL a break his task is to take us up and we are on course to do that. One thing I would wish he would do though is show a bit more gumption and drop Stevenson! absolutely dire.

:top marks

hibees 7062
19-12-2016, 08:39 PM
Season Review so far;

we won the first 5 games of the season with an aggregate of 11-2 and played some nice football in that period. we then had a 4 game winless run (2 of which we had a man sent off and red card subsequently rescinded, the dundee utd game we dominated and should have won and QOTS were unbeaten at that point so a tough away game)

that was then followed up by winning 4 out of the next 5 games (only game we didnt win was Falkirk when they went down to 10 and played every man in their own half and we couldnt break them down) the other 4 games we won by AT LEAST a 2 goal margin

Then on to Dec, a poor game away to United was lost because of us missing a pen. Then a disapponting performance but a 2-0 win over Dumbarton followed by the weekend's draw at Morton (mind when we drew there and scraped a 1-0 win last season?)

looking at the season overall, i'm sorry but i cant go along with everyone who is of the opinion that they have no faith in our manager. We've been without our midfield duo (one that takes the ball from the defense and will get stuck in and another that has drive and energy) so for me naturally our style will alter in that period but to suggest we've been rubbish most of the season is utter drivel not just in my opinion but as a matter of fact as per our results.

It may not be pretty at times, but its effective so far and i've got absolutely no doubt we will win the league at the 3rd time of asking

Spot on :agree:

FitbaFolkKen
19-12-2016, 08:52 PM
might be out a bit but i'm sure Michael o'neil signed a new 4 year extension for norn ireland a month or two before we started looking for a new manager, that would have meant a heck of a mega compensation payment required

Aye he got a 4 year deal worth 2 million, he was an option when we got Pat but way out of our price range now.

RIP Bestie
19-12-2016, 11:10 PM
might be out a bit but i'm sure Michael o'neil signed a new 4 year extension for norn ireland a month or two before we started looking for a new manager, that would have meant a heck of a mega compensation payment required
W
i agree, but I was talking hypothetically and gave a name because I was asked.
My point was that I am not blessed with being in the position or having the resources to make the decision. If I did, O'Neil would have been my choice.
I think Lennon was the wrong choice, based on a number of things, and he has brought nothing to the table to disprove that.

Hi Heid Yin
20-12-2016, 12:11 AM
W
i agree, but I was talking hypothetically and gave a name because I was asked.
My point was that I am not blessed with being in the position or having the resources to make the decision. If I did, O'Neil would have been my choice.
I think Lennon was the wrong choice, based on a number of things, and he has brought nothing to the table to disprove that.

I understand your frustration with Lennon, but he has us top of the league. He really can't lift us any higher.
Should he have us top of the league at the seasons conclusion then his job will have been done and he could only then be seen as a success.

If we measure Lennon against Stubbs, then all I can say is that as much as we all loved Alan, he failed twice to get us automatically promoted and then twice again in the play offs - that's 4 attempts and 4 failures. He also failed to win us the league cup. His one saving grace ( that wonderful Scottish cup) will long be remembered and valued by all of us.

Lennon is on track to get us promoted and that for me is what matters. Yes, we have played poorly here and there, but we have a mean defence and are at present top scorers in our division, too.
I believe that he will prove himself, even to his doubters, come the end of the season.

wookie70
20-12-2016, 12:53 AM
I understand your frustration with Lennon, but he has us top of the league. He really can't lift us any higher.
Should he have us top of the league at the seasons conclusion then his job will have been done and he could only then be seen as a success.

If we measure Lennon against Stubbs, then all I can say is that as much as we all loved Alan, he failed twice to get us automatically promoted and then twice again in the play offs - that's 4 attempts and 4 failures. He also failed to win us the league cup. His one saving grace ( that wonderful Scottish cup) will long be remembered and valued by all of us.

Lennon is on track to get us promoted and that for me is what matters. Yes, we have played poorly here and there, but we have a mean defence and are at present top scorers in our division, too.
I believe that he will prove himself, even to his doubters, come the end of the season.
Over egging Stubbs failures a bit I would say. Losing a final deemed a failure for AS but going out early not mentioned for Lennon. AS couldn't get promoted 4 times so he only had two failures at promotion which is bad enough.

Lennon will have succeeded if we win the league but his starting point was much better than what Stubbs inherited and most of the thing going right on the field are coming from players that were here before Lennon.

He deserves the season to see what he can achieve and then the board will make a decision either way.

jacomo
20-12-2016, 07:59 AM
Obtuse, now thats a big word. No I am not at the wind up I think I asked a reasonable question, yet to get a reasonable answer.

Ask a reasonable question then!

I support NL (as we all should) and have found a lot of the chat on here preposterous.

However, it's surely pretty clear what his target is?? If he fails to get us promoted, he is a failure - no ifs or buts.

Stubbs was dealt a terrible hand and failure to get promoted in his first season was understandable. He outlasted McCoist after all.

Stevie Reid
20-12-2016, 10:55 AM
Season Review so far;

we won the first 5 games of the season with an aggregate of 11-2 and played some nice football in that period. we then had a 4 game winless run (2 of which we had a man sent off and red card subsequently rescinded, the dundee utd game we dominated and should have won and QOTS were unbeaten at that point so a tough away game)

that was then followed up by winning 4 out of the next 5 games (only game we didnt win was Falkirk when they went down to 10 and played every man in their own half and we couldnt break them down) the other 4 games we won by AT LEAST a 2 goal margin

Then on to Dec, a poor game away to United was lost because of us missing a pen. Then a disapponting performance but a 2-0 win over Dumbarton followed by the weekend's draw at Morton (mind when we drew there and scraped a 1-0 win last season?)

looking at the season overall, i'm sorry but i cant go along with everyone who is of the opinion that they have no faith in our manager. We've been without our midfield duo (one that takes the ball from the defense and will get stuck in and another that has drive and energy) so for me naturally our style will alter in that period but to suggest we've been rubbish most of the season is utter drivel not just in my opinion but as a matter of fact as per our results.

It may not be pretty at times, but its effective so far and i've got absolutely no doubt we will win the league at the 3rd time of asking

Excellent post :aok:

Lago
20-12-2016, 12:23 PM
Ask a reasonable question then!

I support NL (as we all should) and have found a lot of the chat on here preposterous.

However, it's surely pretty clear what his target is?? If he fails to get us promoted, he is a failure - no ifs or buts.

Stubbs was dealt a terrible hand and failure to get promoted in his first season was understandable. He outlasted McCoist after all.
Stubbs was also a failure in my opinion, no promotion over 2 seasons, unacceptable. Thank him for the cup win all day long. Not sure what McCoist brings to your argument other than a red herring.

J-C
20-12-2016, 12:34 PM
Ask a reasonable question then!

I support NL (as we all should) and have found a lot of the chat on here preposterous.

However, it's surely pretty clear what his target is?? If he fails to get us promoted, he is a failure - no ifs or buts.

Stubbs was dealt a terrible hand and failure to get promoted in his first season was understandable. He outlasted McCoist after all.

We all support Lennon whilst he is in charge of the team but we are still entitled to question some of the team selections, the performances and fact we're not further ahead at this point in time considering we have no Hearts or Rangers to worry about.

Certain questions about team selection when Stevenson was out and he chose to play Hanlon instead of the natural LB Crane.
Substitutions when Bartley was wrongly red carded twice.
Not utilising Martin a good decent young midfielder when we have an injury crisis.
Continuing with 3 at the back plus Bartley against weaker opposition.
Playing hoofball when we play the big man up top, it's not working.
And the turgid football on display the last 3-4 games

Lets hope we get the players in that we need and that SJM, Fyvie and Dylan get fit as soon as possible.

Super_JMcGinn
20-12-2016, 12:39 PM
Stubbs was also a failure in my opinion, no promotion over 2 seasons, unacceptable. Thank him for the cup win all day long. Not sure what McCoist brings to your argument other than a red herring.

Getting to 2 cup finals in a season and winning the big one is a failure?I don't know what Hibs team you've been watching over the years but it must be a different one from anyone else.

His first season he had to build from scratch, we were up against Rangers and Hearts and it was some achievement to finish second that year.

His second season he was close to immortality. Those cup runs derailed our league form there is no doubt about that, not to mention our fixture congestion due to ill advised call offs for internationals.

I reckon I could get us promoted this year with the resources we have, never mind Lennon.

Swedish hibee
20-12-2016, 12:43 PM
Stubbs was also a failure.

Words. Fail. Me.

jacomo
20-12-2016, 01:04 PM
We all support Lennon whilst he is in charge of the team but we are still entitled to question some of the team selections, the performances and fact we're not further ahead at this point in time considering we have no Hearts or Rangers to worry about.

Certain questions about team selection when Stevenson was out and he chose to play Hanlon instead of the natural LB Crane.
Substitutions when Bartley was wrongly red carded twice.
Not utilising Martin a good decent young midfielder when we have an injury crisis.
Continuing with 3 at the back plus Bartley against weaker opposition.
Playing hoofball when we play the big man up top, it's not working.
And the turgid football on display the last 3-4 games

Lets hope we get the players in that we need and that SJM, Fyvie and Dylan get fit as soon as possible.

All valid questions for sure.

A succession of managers have overlooked our development players (Cummings forced his way into the team) and it's very relevant to ask why.

I have no issue with that. But some of hysteria in here in recent weeks is ridiculous.

jacomo
20-12-2016, 01:09 PM
Stubbs was also a failure in my opinion, no promotion over 2 seasons, unacceptable. Thank him for the cup win all day long. Not sure what McCoist brings to your argument other than a red herring.

Just, for a moment, cast aside your own view and try to accept that other people have different opinions.

The consensus view was that Stubbs deserved another crack after his first season.

Views on his second season more mixed - but he left anyhow.

The consensus view this season is that anything other than 1st place is failure.

It's not that complicated.

pacoluna
20-12-2016, 01:12 PM
Words. Fail. Me.
When stubbs was appointed what would have been his remit going in to both seasons?

Lago
20-12-2016, 01:14 PM
Just, for a moment, cast aside your own view and try to accept that other people have different opinions.

The consensus view was that Stubbs deserved another crack after his first season.

Views on his second season more mixed - but he left anyhow.

The consensus view this season is that anything other than 1st place is failure.

It's not that complicated.
Well guess what, from the very beginning of this season I have said quite plainly that 1st place which guarantees promotion is an absolute necessity, no if no buts. I took so heavy criticism from some for that view a few months ago.
Can I add you perhaps should take note of your first sentence & apply it to yourself.

Lago
20-12-2016, 01:17 PM
Words. Fail. Me.
I take it you are a politician, if your going to quote me do it in it's entirety stop being selective.

easty
20-12-2016, 01:30 PM
Getting to 2 cup finals in a season and winning the big one is a failure?I don't know what Hibs team you've been watching over the years but it must be a different one from anyone else.

His first season he had to build from scratch, we were up against Rangers and Hearts and it was some achievement to finish second that year.

His second season he was close to immortality. Those cup runs derailed our league form there is no doubt about that, not to mention our fixture congestion due to ill advised call offs for internationals.

I reckon I could get us promoted this year with the resources we have, never mind Lennon.

You're making excuses for Stubbs a bit though. He had to build from scratch when he came in...but what about Hearts? They brought in a load of players too, then strolled the league. The second season, I don't think the cup runs are a good enough excuse for our league failure.

Eternally grateful for the cup win, but I would still have got rid. He failed doing what he was brought in to do, take us up. The football he had us playing could be very entertaining, but he didn't address the problems of the first failed promotion attempt, by the end of the second season we were still having the problems we could all see early on in his Hibs career.

WhileTheChief..
20-12-2016, 01:32 PM
Keep hearing this stuff about no Hearts or Rangers to contend with as if that makes this season easier.

These were the worst Hearts and Rangers squads in history going by this message board over the last couple of years.

So so instead of them we have Dundee Utd. Not really that much difference so I don't get why we should be running clear of them whilst we trailed the league leaders by miles the last two seasons.

We're doing fine so far. The football is grim but that's as much to with the league we're in as it is down to our players or manager.

I've yet to see a team in this league play better than us despite the mighty Ayr Utd beating us.

Dundee Utd are no world beaters themselves or they would be 10 points clear of us and skooshing it.
I'd rather be in our position than theirs.

Perfectly relaxed about things and still 100% behind Lennon.

J-C
20-12-2016, 01:33 PM
All valid questions for sure.

A succession of managers have overlooked our development players (Cummings forced his way into the team) and it's very relevant to ask why.

I have no issue with that. But some of hysteria in here in recent weeks is ridiculous.


Cummings joined us just prior to his 18th birthday, he was already developed by Hearts and Hutchy Vale.

MrRobot
20-12-2016, 02:10 PM
I actually really like the guy. As a player he was class at what he done. When you take the Celtic connection away he talks well and comes across as a much more likeable guy than he ever was on the park.

He's suspect as a manager though. As soon as holt & graham were brought in I feared the worse. People on here claimed we needed these types of players to get us up. I disagreed. Launching the ball upto to these two plays into the hands of the teams we are up against. For 3 years now we have not addressed the wide/wing position in an attacking sense which is how both hearts and rangers skooshed the league. I'll hold totally writing him off until after January - I hope he brings in decent wide players. Although I'd argue only Rocky and shinnie have impressed from a signings front.

Having to play a little and large 2 up front annoys me. And if what has been served the last few weeks particularly away from home is what his style is then I'd be happy if he gets us up and we mutually part-ways. It's early days but it's eye bleeding stuff.

Part in bold genuinely shows just what a fickle bunch Hibs fans can be. Hold totally writing a manager off until after half a season(around 22 games)? Writing off a manager who has his team top of the league when they aren't even playing well and have several injuries in the team? Ridiculous.

MacGruber
21-12-2016, 09:10 AM
When stubbs was appointed what would have been his remit going in to both seasons?

Promotion.
Failed to get promoted twice.
We were up against it 1st season in with the The Rangers and Hearts.
The Rangers were strong favourites 2nd season, in which the amount of games we played spread us a bit thin and had an impact on the league. Ultimately tailed off and finished 3rd which wasn't good enough even though fighting on 3 fronts was mitigating circumstances.
Along the way we played some brilliant football with a young and enterprising team and brought in the likes of Scott Allan, McGinn, Henderson, Malonga... the list goes on. We of course won the Scottish Cup and played Hearts off the park in each of the Derbys. The league cup run was also impressive - will never forget the atmosphere at Tynie against St J or indeed how well the boys played. We were back taking over Tynie the following weekend, Hearts not able to live with the dynamism of the midfield and the character the boys showed. They knew we had their number and whilst would never admit it - they were ****ting themselves coming to ER.
Over the 2 seasons AS had been in charge with Dempster and Craig - hibs went from a club in utter turmoil to being rebuilt and rebranded. Personally for long spells I had my love back for hibs, the excitement back - we were going places and building it up. Dempster said we were set to explode. When we failed in the playoffs v Falkirk it was beyond crushing. For all of us obviously. There was a clear bond with AS and John Doolan, Taff, Dempster players and fans and was a nightmare. With a bit of luck and better decisions we would have won the league cup and got through that tie in which we were the better teams twice. Alas we had our failings though, couldn't take our chances and ultimately weren't good enough. Crushing.
To show the character we did to go from there to winning the Scottish Cup (we will never be as close to a cup double again without winning both) was incredible. On 21 May 2016 the club did explode and how.
When Stubbs and Doolan and Co left I was personally gutted. I think AS would have 'skooshed' this league but can understand people thinking he failed twice so wouldn't. I was more so gutted because the feel good factor was back with a vengance and there was real affinity with them even if we never got promoted. Loved AS and Doolan and they are legends in my eyes. crowds from Butcher to now are up about 6000 - just need to get out this bloody league. Stubbs hibs strictly IMO would find themselves in the top 6 of the SPL. It's probably only Celtic we haven't beat in the last 2 years.

1st season we weren't favourites for the title
2nd season we weren't favourites either
This season we were massive favourites - based not just on resources but the team we had built up last season and players we had.

Now - I have no excitement for our brand of football. I have no love or affinity with Lennon or the coaching team. Lennon feels like a separate entity from hibs at times, doesn't feel like it's us or we're in it together. I didn't know who Gary Parker was 6 months ago - I still don't. The team spirit from what I can see seems to be all but gone. That sense of enthusiasm and togetherness now replaced with a lack of cohesion and no particular brand of football or style other than a different 11 every week and hit long balls to the big lads upfront.

If we get promoted I won't really care, its the be all and end all and Lennon will be rightly classed as a success. Meantime I'm not particularly enjoying the ride. Again not that that will matter if we keep our noses infront.

Personally I feel like Lennon is making a pigs ear of it so far. I don't take the comfort others do that we are top at the moment. Obviously before it's pointed out id rather be in our position than not be top but given we are going backwards and getting progressively worse are we going to be top for long. I think United fans will likely view themselves as joint top -at this stage they won't be arsed about a few goals. They'll think they should be top by now having reeled us in slowly but surely following a bad start they were likely to have. They will be delighted where they are no doubt thought we would be out in front by now (by more than goals).

Someone said we are 1st, we can't get any higher. We could be 9 or 10 points higher, looking like champions elect and demoralizing the chasing pack. The fact that we are not for me is galling. This thread will be interesting IF we draw next week and Utd win - so much credence given to us being in this unassailable position of being 1st on goals out the window. No doubt the tag line will change to that we are doing well and within touching distance.

So what's my point?... God knows. I'm just rambling on really lol.

I want Lennon to succeed. We need to be promoted. I'm just bricking it because we look pretty rubbish just now.

Lets kick on, win next week and storm the 2nd half of the season and win this *****ty league..... and retain the Scottish

Apologies for morning nonesensical ramblings. I'm a worrier by nature and just venting the spleen!

GGTTH

Canon Hannan
21-12-2016, 09:19 AM
That's not my job.
Importantly because I don't know who all the candidates were or who would have been available to us.
Personally though, if I was in the position, had the resource and as you asked, I would have moved mountains for Michael O'Neil. Neil Lennon would never have made a long list never mind a short list.

Michael would never have come. We can't afford him. Neil Lennon is our best manager we have had for years and we need to be patient. He has a mediocre team with injuries to deal with. Some people seem to dislike his personality for some reason? He is a gent and has openly offered help to the young players. Top manager in my book 🙏

Green-Hibee-7
21-12-2016, 09:31 AM
Part in bold genuinely shows just what a fickle bunch Hibs fans can be. Hold totally writing a manager off until after half a season(around 22 games)? Writing off a manager who has his team top of the league when they aren't even playing well and have several injuries in the team? Ridiculous.

It might well be ridiculous writing a manager off when we are sitting top of the league but sadly the importance of going up this season means everything. You mention 22 games. How many of them, particularly away from home have we played well in? We are eye-bleeding to watch. 22 games with a budget double nearest competitor and we 'aren't playing well' forgive me for stating the obvious but it's his job to have us playing well. You could count on one hand how many times we have played well. He is suspect. Head in the sand if thinking otherwise. If after the new year we aren't sitting top then yeah I think it's fair to start writing him off. Going by the people I travel with a lot of people feel the same. I hope I'm totally wrong about this btw - the evidence just doesn't support it for me.

jacomo
21-12-2016, 12:14 PM
It might well be ridiculous writing a manager off when we are sitting top of the league but sadly the importance of going up this season means everything. You mention 22 games. How many of them, particularly away from home have we played well in? We are eye-bleeding to watch. 22 games with a budget double nearest competitor and we 'aren't playing well' forgive me for stating the obvious but it's his job to have us playing well. You could count on one hand how many times we have played well. He is suspect. Head in the sand if thinking otherwise. If after the new year we aren't sitting top then yeah I think it's fair to start writing him off. Going by the people I travel with a lot of people feel the same. I hope I'm totally wrong about this btw - the evidence just doesn't support it for me.

Last season we had a bad slump in form Feb-April and it derailed our league campaign.

This season we've had a poor run but are still top. Reasons to be fretful, sure, but reasons to be positive too.

I think we need to back our team and help them play with confidence. If our players can find a run of form we will be fine.

Captain Trips
21-12-2016, 12:16 PM
We are at tbis juncture doing better than everyone else if we have been not so great then neither has everyone else.

Do I wish we were 10pts clear? Of course I do but we have had year on year of garbage and failures I am not going to knock a manager whom has us top of the league exactly where we need to be. We may not end up top and he will get plenty from me if we are not top but at this point in time we are top and that is what matters.

People can predict we might fail I can easily predict with as much authority that we will win league.

We can do better but as long as we don't do worse.

number9dream
21-12-2016, 12:54 PM
Last season we had a bad slump in form Feb-April and it derailed our league campaign.

This season we've had a poor run but are still top. Reasons to be fretful, sure, but reasons to be positive too.

I think we need to back our team and help them play with confidence. If our players can find a run of form we will be fine.

While some of Lennon's selections have me baffled and some players are underperforming, there is plenty of time to kick on.
There should be a big gate on Saturday, with exiles back in the city for Christmas. Raith will pack men behind the ball, as all visitors do, so we need to get ripped in about them early and a noisy crowd can help. The team needs a good win that they can build on.
Hopefully, a speedy attacker and a good full-back are on Lenny's list to Santa...

Lago
21-12-2016, 01:05 PM
Last season we had a bad slump in form Feb-April and it derailed our league campaign.

This season we've had a poor run but are still top. Reasons to be fretful, sure, but reasons to be positive too.

I think we need to back our team and help them play with confidence. If our players can find a run of form we will be fine.

Agree your point about current poor run is valid & hopefully recruitment in Jan plus injuries to our best players over will see an improvement in results & performance.

Lago
21-12-2016, 01:07 PM
While some of Lennon's selections have me baffled and some players are underperforming, there is plenty of time to kick on.
There should be a big gate on Saturday, with exiles back in the city for Christmas. Raith will pack men behind the ball, as all visitors do, so we need to get ripped in about them early and a noisy crowd can help. The team needs a good win that they can build on.
Hopefully, a speedy attacker and a good full-back are on Lenny's list to Santa...

Spot on, no team in this league is going to make it easy for us & the support need to be patient on Sat.

Eyrie
21-12-2016, 08:18 PM
While some of Lennon's selections have me baffled and some players are underperforming, there is plenty of time to kick on.
There should be a big gate on Saturday, with exiles back in the city for Christmas. Raith will pack men behind the ball, as all visitors do, so we need to get ripped in about them early and a noisy crowd can help. The team needs a good win that they can build on.
Hopefully, a speedy attacker and a good full-back are on Lenny's list to Santa...

We have two good full backs in Gray and Stevenson.

What we don't have is any good wing backs, and rather than adjust his formation, Lennon persists in playing two full backs out of position.

MWHIBBIES
21-12-2016, 09:59 PM
We have two good full backs in Gray and Stevenson.

What we don't have is any good wing backs, and rather than adjust his formation, Lennon persists in playing two full backs out of position.What formation can he play in which Stevenson and Gray won't need to attack?

J-C
21-12-2016, 11:21 PM
What formation can he play in which Stevenson and Gray won't need to attack?

4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1

Boyle on the right, Commons/Keatings on the left.

Eyrie
21-12-2016, 11:38 PM
4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1

Boyle on the right, Commons/Keatings on the left.

All of those are preferable to 3-5-2 unless we have genuine wing backs or wingers. I'd add that Cummings can also be used wide if we go 4-3-3.

Playing with a back four means Gray and Stevenson can then overlap occasionally rather than being relied on as our only width.

MWHIBBIES
22-12-2016, 12:21 AM
4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1

Boyle on the right, Commons/Keatings on the left.Who is Commons going to beat for pace? He is an attacking midfielder, not a left winger. Any formation that we play is going to have players out of position. Hopefully, this will be addressed in January but 352 is our best bet just now if for no other reason than our best 3 players this season are probably the 3 centre backs.

I also don't think any of the players we have in the middle play their best football in a 2 man central midfield. Best performances all in Stubbs diamond or 352, very poor at times in a 2, McGinn especially.

MWHIBBIES
22-12-2016, 12:21 AM
All of those are preferable to 3-5-2 unless we have genuine wing backs or wingers. I'd add that Cummings can also be used wide if we go 4-3-3.

Playing with a back four means Gray and Stevenson can then overlap occasionally rather than being relied on as our only width.Cummings is ****ing hopeless wide, he needs to be between the posts putting the ball in the net.

J-C
22-12-2016, 08:51 AM
Commons plays naturally off the left side, he doesn't really play through the middle, it's his footballing brain we need, not his pace. If we want the best from him play a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 and play him just behind the striker.

MacGruber
24-12-2016, 02:34 PM
Will just put this to the top so it's easy to find!

Scottie
24-12-2016, 02:40 PM
Will just put this to the top so it's easy to find!
:greengrin

Northernhibee
24-12-2016, 02:42 PM
I've never been a negative type but I don't have any faith in Neil Lennons ability at all.

Springbank
24-12-2016, 02:55 PM
I've never been a negative type but I don't have any faith in Neil Lennons ability at all.

Lenton can go, and take shinnie with him

Wingers are needed

Thecat23
24-12-2016, 02:58 PM
Loads of Lennon can go shouts but before KO most were praising the starting line up. Surely to **** these players should start getting stick too?

Wheat Hound
24-12-2016, 03:02 PM
Loads of Lennon can go shouts but before KO most were praising the starting line up. Surely to **** these players should start getting stick too?

Agree. Best 11 we could've put out but they weren't good enough. The least clinical Hibs team ever

Heisenberg
24-12-2016, 03:02 PM
Loads of Lennon can go shouts but before KO most were praising the starting line up. Surely to **** these players should start getting stick too?

Posted the same in the match thread. Some of these boys proving that they don't have what it takes.

easty
24-12-2016, 03:02 PM
4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1

Boyle on the right, Commons/Keatings on the left.

It'd defeat the purpose to play Commons on the wing. He'd look to come inside, he's no going to hit the byline and put in a cross.

mcfly
24-12-2016, 03:02 PM
Keep hearing this stuff about no Hearts or Rangers to contend with as if that makes this season easier.

These were the worst Hearts and Rangers squads in history going by this message board over the last couple of years.

So so instead of them we have Dundee Utd. Not really that much difference so I don't get why we should be running clear of them whilst we trailed the league leaders by miles the last two seasons.

We're doing fine so far. The football is grim but that's as much to with the league we're in as it is down to our players or manager.

I've yet to see a team in this league play better than us despite the mighty Ayr Utd beating us.

Dundee Utd are no world beaters themselves or they would be 10 points clear of us and skooshing it.
I'd rather be in our position than theirs.

Perfectly relaxed about things and still 100% behind Lennon.

Beginning to lose confidence in him. Doesnt know his best team and doesn't inspire

Very disappointed

JK Rolling
24-12-2016, 03:04 PM
Promotion.
Failed to get promoted twice.
We were up against it 1st season in with the The Rangers and Hearts.
The Rangers were strong favourites 2nd season, in which the amount of games we played spread us a bit thin and had an impact on the league. Ultimately tailed off and finished 3rd which wasn't good enough even though fighting on 3 fronts was mitigating circumstances.
Along the way we played some brilliant football with a young and enterprising team and brought in the likes of Scott Allan, McGinn, Henderson, Malonga... the list goes on. We of course won the Scottish Cup and played Hearts off the park in each of the Derbys. The league cup run was also impressive - will never forget the atmosphere at Tynie against St J or indeed how well the boys played. We were back taking over Tynie the following weekend, Hearts not able to live with the dynamism of the midfield and the character the boys showed. They knew we had their number and whilst would never admit it - they were ****ting themselves coming to ER.
Over the 2 seasons AS had been in charge with Dempster and Craig - hibs went from a club in utter turmoil to being rebuilt and rebranded. Personally for long spells I had my love back for hibs, the excitement back - we were going places and building it up. Dempster said we were set to explode. When we failed in the playoffs v Falkirk it was beyond crushing. For all of us obviously. There was a clear bond with AS and John Doolan, Taff, Dempster players and fans and was a nightmare. With a bit of luck and better decisions we would have won the league cup and got through that tie in which we were the better teams twice. Alas we had our failings though, couldn't take our chances and ultimately weren't good enough. Crushing.
To show the character we did to go from there to winning the Scottish Cup (we will never be as close to a cup double again without winning both) was incredible. On 21 May 2016 the club did explode and how.
When Stubbs and Doolan and Co left I was personally gutted. I think AS would have 'skooshed' this league but can understand people thinking he failed twice so wouldn't. I was more so gutted because the feel good factor was back with a vengance and there was real affinity with them even if we never got promoted. Loved AS and Doolan and they are legends in my eyes. crowds from Butcher to now are up about 6000 - just need to get out this bloody league. Stubbs hibs strictly IMO would find themselves in the top 6 of the SPL. It's probably only Celtic we haven't beat in the last 2 years.

1st season we weren't favourites for the title
2nd season we weren't favourites either
This season we were massive favourites - based not just on resources but the team we had built up last season and players we had.

Now - I have no excitement for our brand of football. I have no love or affinity with Lennon or the coaching team. Lennon feels like a separate entity from hibs at times, doesn't feel like it's us or we're in it together. I didn't know who Gary Parker was 6 months ago - I still don't. The team spirit from what I can see seems to be all but gone. That sense of enthusiasm and togetherness now replaced with a lack of cohesion and no particular brand of football or style other than a different 11 every week and hit long balls to the big lads upfront.

If we get promoted I won't really care, its the be all and end all and Lennon will be rightly classed as a success. Meantime I'm not particularly enjoying the ride. Again not that that will matter if we keep our noses infront.

Personally I feel like Lennon is making a pigs ear of it so far. I don't take the comfort others do that we are top at the moment. Obviously before it's pointed out id rather be in our position than not be top but given we are going backwards and getting progressively worse are we going to be top for long. I think United fans will likely view themselves as joint top -at this stage they won't be arsed about a few goals. They'll think they should be top by now having reeled us in slowly but surely following a bad start they were likely to have. They will be delighted where they are no doubt thought we would be out in front by now (by more than goals).

Someone said we are 1st, we can't get any higher. We could be 9 or 10 points higher, looking like champions elect and demoralizing the chasing pack. The fact that we are not for me is galling. This thread will be interesting IF we draw next week and Utd win - so much credence given to us being in this unassailable position of being 1st on goals out the window. No doubt the tag line will change to that we are doing well and within touching distance.

So what's my point?... God knows. I'm just rambling on really lol.

I want Lennon to succeed. We need to be promoted. I'm just bricking it because we look pretty rubbish just now.

Lets kick on, win next week and storm the 2nd half of the season and win this *****ty league..... and retain the Scottish

Apologies for morning nonesensical ramblings. I'm a worrier by nature and just venting the spleen!

GGTTH

You make a lot of good points mate and we should all be on the same page as far as wanting nothing ut the best but I can't help but think there's a really hard slog in store for the second half of the season with some eye-bleeding football to be endured.

I'm up for the fight though.

Diclonius
24-12-2016, 03:06 PM
He has until the end of the season. I'm running out of reasons to give him that time though.

If we fail to get promotion he should be sacked the minute it becomes impossible.

Billychaotic182
24-12-2016, 03:07 PM
Get him out. We are worse now under him than Stubbs

660
24-12-2016, 03:07 PM
If we lose to Dundee Utd the pressure on him will mount.

Captain Trips
24-12-2016, 03:08 PM
Lennon has pissed me off at times but tonight though I am thoroughly pissed off at the players. Created the chances themselves and missed them themselves, really pissed at the team tonight.

blackpoolhibs
24-12-2016, 03:09 PM
I dont think it matters who our manager is these days, we are just a squad of players devoid of any sort of plan, with a bunch of average to poor players, some playing out of position.

Square pegs in round holes, and a manager who does not seem to know what his best team or best formation is.

He's also brought in a few players who are no better than we already had.

worrying times indeed.

Ozyhibby
24-12-2016, 03:16 PM
Probably the most important transfer window of his career coming up. Another disaster like he had in the summer and he won't last the season and we will be staying down.


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660
24-12-2016, 03:18 PM
I dont think it matters who our manager is these days, we are just a squad of players devoid of any sort of plan, with a bunch of average to poor players, some playing out of position.

Square pegs in round holes, and a manager who does not seem to know what his best team or best formation is.

He's also brought in a few players who are no better than we already had.

worrying times indeed.

I'd argue that Stubbs team did have a structure and a plan and if it wasn't for the relentless games last season we may have run the Huns a lot closer. I also think he would have taken Hibs up this year at a canter.

neil7908
24-12-2016, 03:20 PM
Lennon put out the team we all wanted and still the players let us down.

He needs to take his share of the blame as his signings have been less than impressive. Not only that, they have been the wrong kind of player.

It's almost become a cliché now but I do think the fans are right - we need some width and pace in our team.

That won't solve all our problems but it will allow us to stretch teams and vary the way we play.

Commons may well still be a quality player but he isn't the player we need.

I'm just not sure what another manager would do with this squad of players.

Frazerbob
24-12-2016, 03:20 PM
Probably the most important transfer window of his career coming up. Another disaster like he had in the summer and he won't last the season and we will be staying down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's the most important window since the window was introduced for our club.

kevo1875
24-12-2016, 03:23 PM
We need players out wide who have the ability to go past the last defender and get balls into the box

1875M
24-12-2016, 03:24 PM
Changed formation but still the same type of performance, sadly. Very predictable. No movement in the box when the ball is wide, players literally standing still. I don't understand the game plan. With Stubbs, there was a game plan - attacking, creative football, lots of movement, it left us exposed at the back but I'd rather have that than what I'm currently watching.

660
24-12-2016, 03:26 PM
The most galling thing about Lennon is he has succeeded in completely nullifying the post cup feel good factor with a mixture of poor signings, dreadful football and his seeming indifference to hibs as a club.

pacoluna
24-12-2016, 03:28 PM
Changed formation but still the same type of performance, sadly. Very predictable. No movement in the box when the ball is wide, players literally standing still. I don't understand the game plan. With Stubbs, there was a game plan - attacking, creative football, lots of movement, it left us exposed at the back but I'd rather have that than what I'm currently watching.
Why do people keep bringing up stubbs, he's gone he's in the past he had two seasons to get us up, get over it.

Scorrie
24-12-2016, 03:29 PM
The most galling thing about Lennon is he has succeeded in completely nullifying the post cup feel good factor with a mixture of poor signings, dreadful football and his seeming indifference to hibs as a club.

Interesting you mention Lennon's indifference. That has been my feeling about him as well. Maybe harsh but I just don't get the feeling that he really either wants to be here ir is he enjoying it. Hope I'm wrong

GlasgowHibee
24-12-2016, 03:35 PM
Thought he could come to the 2nd division, sign a few players and win the league by October.

Not how it works.

Diclonius
24-12-2016, 03:36 PM
I honestly don't think he wants to be here.

Ronniekirk
24-12-2016, 03:37 PM
It's the most important window since the window was introduced for our club.

The first window was key ,and the view the board took was the team only needed a few players added ,and they thoght we would be good to win the league with Lennon in charge
The signings for me werent inspiring and recently ts clear Lennon doesnt know what his best team is hence we have no consistency
Having said that i genuinely thought todays team should of been good enough to win the game
Not sure what the answer is now so hope the Club do
However it will be interesting to see how united ane being in front

Speedway
24-12-2016, 03:37 PM
Thought he could come to the 2nd division, sign a few players and win the league by October.

Not how it works.

It was for Neilson.

660
24-12-2016, 03:38 PM
Interesting you mention Lennon's indifference. That has been my feeling about him as well. Maybe harsh but I just don't get the feeling that he really either wants to be here ir is he enjoying it. Hope I'm wrong

I was excited about the appointment because I envisaged the Lennon who shouted at McCoist and had a bit of fire about him. I thought he would argue our corner re referees and be desperate to win every game. I havent seen that at all to be honest.

WhileTheChief..
24-12-2016, 03:39 PM
The most galling thing about Lennon is he has succeeded in completely nullifying the post cup feel good factor with a mixture of poor signings, dreadful football and his seeming indifference to hibs as a club.

His indifference to the club?? Where you getting that from?

Post cup feel good factor is alive and kicking with me.

pacoluna
24-12-2016, 03:39 PM
The most galling thing about Lennon is he has succeeded in completely nullifying the post cup feel good factor with a mixture of poor signings, dreadful football and his seeming indifference to hibs as a club.

I think you will find the Scottish cup win was only papering over the cracks, it would naive to think otherwise.

Unseen work
24-12-2016, 03:42 PM
I don't think he has a clue what he is doing.

Our starting 11 is changing near enough every week.

ehf
24-12-2016, 03:44 PM
WTF was Shinnie still doing on the pitch at the end?

The Captain....
24-12-2016, 03:45 PM
I still think we'll win the league somehow - it would take a special kind of incompetence to blow it this year. Getting the injured players back and making at least 3 quality signings, with width and pace is an absolute must tho'.

My early confidence in Lennon is rapidly waining - I haven't enjoyed this season at all so far and we dont look particularly convincing even with a full squad to choose from.

Real tough away game coming up against Falkirk - a win is absolutely crucial.

Ozyhibby
24-12-2016, 03:48 PM
Thought he could come to the 2nd division, sign a few players and win the league by October.

Not how it works.

The majority on here thought the same.


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660
24-12-2016, 03:52 PM
The majority on here thought the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The majority on here aren't professional football managers

matty_f
24-12-2016, 03:54 PM
I thought the tactics and team were better today. First half we should have been three goals up. It's not Lennon missing the one on ones.

Today aside, and I'm not saying we played anywhere near well enough, we are going backwards under Lennon. I don't know what he needs to do to turn it around but we were however many points ahead of United and are now two points behind them.

Ultimately that's not good enough.

ancient hibee
24-12-2016, 03:55 PM
I don't think he has a clue what he is doing.

Our starting 11 is changing near enough every week.

That's the players are so inconsistent.

mcfly
24-12-2016, 03:57 PM
Lennon for me doesn't know his best 11.

Shinnie was awful today and has not impressed me at all. I would not be disappointed if Birmingham wanted him back.

Lennon doesn't inspire the team from the touch line he spends most of his time sat in the dugout.

Overall I really thought we would kick on and have a big lead by now. We did and we have now lost it.

Pressure is on Lennon - he has to sort it and win this league or he deserves the sack - end of

Hibs cannot afford another year is this dross league or we won't be getting 15000 crowds

Greenwich_Hibby
24-12-2016, 03:57 PM
He's clueless....

Northernhibee
24-12-2016, 04:02 PM
The comparisons between the style of Calderwood and Lennon are uncanny.

Onion
24-12-2016, 04:09 PM
Played better than last week but not good enough to win this league.

RR are a no better than a basic Championship side with a simple game plan to get bodies behind the ball, and take the one chance that was bound to come their way. Hibs were ponderous but still created some good chances in the first half with some killer balls from midfield, but our strikers inability to score from a few chances came back to bite us yet again.

Lennon looks like a man using this season as a learning process as part of a 3 year bid to get Hibs out of the Championship. We cannot afford to stay in this league and I genuinely fear for us under Lennon.

GreenCastle
24-12-2016, 04:11 PM
We aren't playing hoofball - today I actually felt we over passed it and should have gone more direct.

We rarely turn teams and just play in front of them in a narrow formation that most competent professionals / semi professsionals can deal with.

He doesn't know his best 11 - the balance isn't there and we seriously lack any width and players who can beat a player 1v1 and consistency cross a decent ball.

As another poster said - we were too and the lead should have been more but we seem to be pressing the self destruct button and dropping silly points when games should be over.

Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 04:11 PM
If we lose to Dundee Utd the pressure on him will mount.

No it won't. Only negative people see the short term view. So you would question his position after 6 months???

Andy74
24-12-2016, 04:12 PM
I thought we were alright today, no better, and it was another one of those days that Hibs have had for years. If Lennon had been able to sort that in 4 or 4 or 5 months then great. It wasn't as if finishing was awful it just wasn't going for us.

Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 04:14 PM
Probably the most important transfer window of his career coming up. Another disaster like he had in the summer and he won't last the season and we will be staying down.


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Disaster?
We were unlucky today and tried to change the formation of the team. Once we return to a full squad all will be well. Too much negativity around.

ancient hibee
24-12-2016, 04:16 PM
If you don't clear the ball decisively enough and don't put open goal chances away you tend not to win games.Today was probably the best team he can put out at the moment in the correct formation.They let him down.

Ozyhibby
24-12-2016, 04:22 PM
Disaster?
We were unlucky today and tried to change the formation of the team. Once we return to a full squad all will be well. Too much negativity around.

Do you think the summer window was a success?


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Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 04:23 PM
Do you think the summer window was a success?


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Yes.
We would be top if not injury problems.
Do you think sacking Neil is a good idea for the club?

Nicho87
24-12-2016, 04:24 PM
Lennon out please. We wont win the league with him. 2/9 sums it up.

Greenwich_Hibby
24-12-2016, 04:27 PM
Yes.
We would be top if not injury problems.
Do you think sacking Neil is a good idea for the club?

Time to take your 'Sellick' glasses off mate...your defending the indefensible just because he was with your 'big team'- he's a big name but has a cr*p record and is taking us backwards at a rate of knots - he's up there with Calderwood and has us playing cr*p football.....but he was a Sellick man, so all ok yeah?:confused:

GreenCastle
24-12-2016, 04:28 PM
This season is just so inconsistent - only won 3 league games in a row once.

That's not title winning form - we need consistency and momentum.

Falkirk and Utd are must wins otherwise we could be a 6 to 8 points behind Utd after playing them.

cleanyman
24-12-2016, 04:34 PM
Talk about the crunch....

The next two games are huge.

Ozyhibby
24-12-2016, 04:36 PM
Yes.
We would be top if not injury problems.
Do you think sacking Neil is a good idea for the club?

Absolutely not. I think Lennon will get it right this window. He has to.
But there is no way the summer transfer window could be described as a success. Holt and Shinnie have been very poor and we should have added wingers.


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emerald green
24-12-2016, 04:37 PM
Yes.
We would be top if not injury problems.
Do you think sacking Neil is a good idea for the club?

Hibs are of course the only club which has injury problems. Tired of hearing that old excuse.

Hibs would be top if players stopped missing sitters in front of goal.

Andy74
24-12-2016, 04:42 PM
Absolutely not. I think Lennon will get it right this window. He has to.
But there is no way the summer transfer window could be described as a success. Holt and Shinnie have been very poor and we should have added wingers.


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I don't think there's much wrong with who we signed but as you say who we didn't sign was more of an issue. The likes of Harris and Stanton should have been encouraged out and some decent pace and trickery added.

blackpoolhibs
24-12-2016, 04:43 PM
Yes.
We would be top if not injury problems.
Do you think sacking Neil is a good idea for the club?

Why is it we will always have jam tomorrow?

southern hibby
24-12-2016, 04:43 PM
No it won't. Only negative people see the short term view. So you would question his position after 6 months???

Well it's mounting in my eyes already. Today was terrible. We passed the ball on the deck but still need tactics that can carve teams open. For a team with Limited resources as RR have they did a job against us today.

We had a team that played Bronby and won away from home, we had injuries which is unfortunate but still should be doing better than we are.

Make no mistake we are fast becoming a championship
Team in certain players minds as I feel there seems to be no one looking to take charge and waiting for things to happen. No width no speed no tactical savy at breaking teams down.
Drastic investment needed or fingers crossed me thinks.

GGTTH

J-C
24-12-2016, 05:04 PM
It'd defeat the purpose to play Commons on the wing. He'd look to come inside, he's no going to hit the byline and put in a cross.


Never said he was, just with the players available those were the best options for us, in fact the team lined up pretty much hat way today.

BSEJVT
24-12-2016, 05:05 PM
We lack urgency, we lack pace

We have far too many players standing together in a 20 yard circle achieving the square root of nothing.

We look like the worst coached team in the league, we start with and exhibit no plan whatsoever, I couldn't tell you our preferred style and doubt he could either.

It is like watching Monday night's 5 a sides playing with your pals.

We are lethargic, we don't press the ball, we amble into the game when a goal down, we look to our unfit overweight maverick to create a chance, have a brief flurry to flatter ourselves we should have won and then fail to.

We should running straight over the top of teams in this league, blowing them away with a 2 or 3 goal burst in the first quarter and demoralising them.

We don't we let them stay in the game and grow confidence and then fall for our customary sucker punch.

I am a ****ing sick of it.

Lennon's signings have been terrible, we have wasted the summer budget on utter dross and I am fearful he will waste the winter one on the same.

If I were a betting man I would put good money on him not being Hibs manager by late February / early March, which will be just too late to save us from another season in this ****ty league.

He is utterly clueless and is rolling the dice, hoping to get lucky

Dashing Bob S
24-12-2016, 05:06 PM
I think Lennon is as likely to take us up as anybody.

Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 05:13 PM
Time to take your 'Sellick' glasses off mate...your defending the indefensible just because he was with your 'big team'- he's a big name but has a cr*p record and is taking us backwards at a rate of knots - he's up there with Calderwood and has us playing cr*p football.....but he was a Sellick man, so all ok yeah?:confused:

I support Rangers.
Now back to the point. How would you have changed today's game?

gjb
24-12-2016, 05:15 PM
Thought when we got him as manager that we would skoosh this league with the players we had and his management. Now wondering if he is any good at all, we play against teams that are going to come to Easter road and defend and hit us on the break anyone who knows about football would tell you that width, pace and moving the ball quickly is the way to combat this. Today against Raith we had and did none of the above. The game was crying out for Lennon to make a change and give us some pace up front but again as in past games he doesn't change anything until it's too late and we are running out of time. Keating and Boyle did more in the time they were on than Cummings, holt, commons and shinnie did the whole game, why does he leave it so late to change the team. My thoughts are he was lucky in inheriting a reasonable Celtic side and carried on then went to Bolton and got shown up for not being very good as is happening with us now. This is just my opinion

Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 05:16 PM
Lennon out please. We wont win the league with him. 2/9 sums it up.

Great idea.
Let's sack the manager and all the support staff along with half the team?
Then rebuild ready for next season 😩

660
24-12-2016, 05:17 PM
No it won't. Only negative people see the short term view. So you would question his position after 6 months???

Yes I would and so would a lot of others. His job is to get Hibs up.

Heisenberg
24-12-2016, 05:20 PM
It's no surprise that he is getting questioned. We are second in this ***** league with a bigger budget than the rest. What do people expect when we have been so poor for so long?

QMU-1875
24-12-2016, 05:27 PM
It's no surprise that he is getting questioned. We are second in this ***** league with a bigger budget than the rest. What do people expect when we have been so poor for so long?

The problem is as well that nothing has changed from last season. Even when we were winning under Stubbs we made it look like a challenge for most of last season. I think it's these players who've been masked by the cup win.

Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 05:28 PM
It's no surprise that he is getting questioned. We are second in this ***** league with a bigger budget than the rest. What do people expect when we have been so poor for so long?

Too much change and too much inconsistency over the years while signing loan players and therefore no stability. We need a steady ship. I am backing the club, manager and team and expect a return to form when our 2 best players return. We have no Devine right ti win the league! United will have a sticky spell too. It's a close call but changing the manager is throwing in the towel and giving United the league as we have to rebuild again for 2-3 years.

J-C
24-12-2016, 05:30 PM
Initially I was happy with Lennon as head coach but that's all changed. I think we can all now see that his Celtic gig was all he had and as we know anyone could've won things at Celtic with their resources, I was expecting a team to be fit and run through teams but what we have is another slow paced one dimensional team, incapable of putting together any type of winning run.

What I can't believe is we've got is 2 over the hill players, both a stone overweight who should be nowhere near this club, I'm talking about Holt and Commons. Both triers but definitely not what we need.

Pacoluna mentioned the cup win papered over the cracks and he well be right, our squad depth is paper thin and losing Fyvie and McGinn has shown that in recent weeks. Shinnie should never be played in midfield again as he's a waste of space.

Lennon didn't strengthen and didn't do anything about adding width to the team, he has us playing with no pace or tempo and that only seems to happen when we go a goal down.

I'd be quite happy for him to go now.

marleyhib
24-12-2016, 05:30 PM
Not impressed, it's that simple. Utter garbage today, subs on too late. We are worse than last year, Holt is past it yet plays the whole game. Seems to have done s good job of ruining Cummings too.

If he makes me eat my words I'll be delighted.

Andy74
24-12-2016, 05:31 PM
Yes I would and so would a lot of others. His job is to get Hibs up.

Indeed. So judge it when that has either been achieved or not.

emerald green
24-12-2016, 05:34 PM
Too much change and too much inconsistency over the years while signing loan players and therefore no stability. We need a steady ship. I am backing the club, manager and team and expect a return to form when our 2 best players return. We have no Devine right ti win the league! United will have a sticky spell too. It's a close call but changing the manager is throwing in the towel and giving United the league as we have to rebuild again for 2-3 years.

The bit in bold - what are you basing that wild sweeping statement on? Ray McKinnon has got DU in front of Hibs, on a lower budget, only a matter of a few months after inheriting a shambles at DU.

Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 05:36 PM
Not impressed, it's that simple. Utter garbage today, subs on too late. We are worse than last year, Holt is past it yet plays the whole game. Seems to have done s good job of ruining Cummings too.

If he makes me eat my words I'll be delighted.

So Neil should have emptied the team on arrival? He is dammed if he did and damned if he doesn't. He has what he has and no time to fix as the supporters attack the team and manager, the players looked under pressure today and I felt for them.

Greenwich_Hibby
24-12-2016, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=Canon Hannan;4887026]Too much change and too much inconsistency over the years while signing loan players and therefore no stability. We need a steady ship. I am backing the club, manager and team and expect a return to form when our 2 best players return. We have no Devine right ti win the league! United will have a sticky spell too. It's a close call but changing the manager is throwing in the towel and giving United the league as we have to rebuild again for 2

Agree on loyalty and time when you are sure you are backing the right horse - what has Lennon demonstrated in his time here that he can deliver promotion?

In my view he cant spot talent, is tactically inept in second-tier football, his teams are baffling an he is clearly not a man manager (divorces himself from bad performances, clear the air session and his childish treatment of Cummings)....but he is a big name......so was another Old Firm reject Butcher....I'm positive someone like MacKinnon would have got more out of the players......

Thecat23
24-12-2016, 05:41 PM
So Neil should have emptied the team on arrival? He is dammed if he did and damned if he doesn't. He has what he has and no time to fix as the supporters attack the team and manager, the players looked under pressure today and I felt for them.

I am one who has always said back the team and not to get on their backs but now I'm sick of the players not doing their jobs.

This is Hibs we are talking about and we have a squad that should be good enough to blow at least some teams away in this league. Some players have simply had to many chances and need binned. If they can't perform at this level then I don't want them here it's simple as that.

Maybe we are signing players who think it's a stroll guys with experience like Commons Holt and Shinnie when really guys from teams like
Falkirk, Etc could do it better?

I've no idea the soloution but it's time something changed on the park because enough is enough. Team needs to Man the **** up and start being ruthless.

Canon Hannan
24-12-2016, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE=Canon Hannan;4887026]Too much change and too much inconsistency over the years while signing loan players and therefore no stability. We need a steady ship. I am backing the club, manager and team and expect a return to form when our 2 best players return. We have no Devine right ti win the league! United will have a sticky spell too. It's a close call but changing the manager is throwing in the towel and giving United the league as we have to rebuild again for 2

Agree on loyalty and time when you are sure you are backing the right horse - what has Lennon demonstrated in his time here that he can deliver promotion?

In my view he cant spot talent, is tactically inept in second-tier football, his teams are baffling an he is clearly not a man manager (divorces himself from bad performances, clear the air session and his childish treatment of Cummings)....but he is a big name......so was another Old Firm reject Butcher....I'm positive someone like MacKinnon would have got more out of the players......

He is 6 months in the job!
He changed the team to freshen up. Would you keep last weeks team?

Greenwich_Hibby
24-12-2016, 05:49 PM
[QUOTE=Greenwich_Hibby;4887056]

He is 6 months in the job!
He changed the team to freshen up. Would you keep last weeks team?

So - look at Derby?

Yes - with Cummings in from the start- no reason to disrupt the defensive unit.

Anyway, away out for ma tea and a sherry or - Merry Xmas! :greengrin

marleyhib
24-12-2016, 05:51 PM
So Neil should have emptied the team on arrival? He is dammed if he did and damned if he doesn't. He has what he has and no time to fix as the supporters attack the team and manager, the players looked under pressure today and I felt for them.

No he should have recruutef better and also done better with what he has. Working out a decent formation and starting 11 would be a start. We are in the hampionship for ffs. This isn't knee jerk and yes I know we have 2 key players missing but for me he's failing badly.

Holt - past it
Shinnie - been a flop
Graham - useless

Stubbs had his failings too but definitely had an eye for a player.

Heisenberg
24-12-2016, 05:51 PM
Too much change and too much inconsistency over the years while signing loan players and therefore no stability. We need a steady ship. I am backing the club, manager and team and expect a return to form when our 2 best players return. We have no Devine right ti win the league! United will have a sticky spell too. It's a close call but changing the manager is throwing in the towel and giving United the league as we have to rebuild again for 2-3 years.

We can't keep relying on United to falter. We did that with Hearts and then the Huns the year after. We need to go out and win it, which I'm not sure Lennon or this group of players are capable of.

cleanyman
24-12-2016, 06:01 PM
I have a sneaky feeling Lennon is going to be costing Hibs a fortune in mid January.

And it ain't got nothing to do with new signings

FitbaFolkKen
24-12-2016, 06:15 PM
His indifference to the club?? Where you getting that from?

Post cup feel good factor is alive and kicking with me.

No it's gone, splashing out on season tickets to watch us lose to Ayr, draw with Dundee Utd and Raith and struggle to beat Dumbarton brought me crashing back down to the reality we are facing.

Carry on like we are and it's the lottery of he playoffs again.

Not good enough.

QMU-1875
24-12-2016, 06:18 PM
One constant has been the players. Lennon put his faith in them in the summer and they are the ones that haven't repayed it. Hopefully he gets a budget for January, no excuses the crowds are back so we should have money.