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Dashing Bob S
12-12-2016, 09:34 PM
There was a movement a while back to investigate the possibility of turning the FF (esp lower) into bam central, or a traditional 'end' where the more vociferous fans could gather to let of steam - an anything goes spot dedicated to the more unreconstructed in our midst. The precious ponces who objected to anything could be directed to other parts of the ground, while the abusive echibitionists could be told to ply their trade in the FF lower.

I thought United's home lower end at Tannadice looked decent with all the flags, and it acted as a focal point for fans who want to sing and shout to gather.

Such an arrangement at ER could work to galvanize supporters in other parts of the ground too.

I believe the club agreed to investigate the possibility of this. Did anything come of it?

Since1875Hibs
12-12-2016, 09:59 PM
Nothing. After a half dozen attempts to contact the Club and meet with representatives we're no further forward.

Disappointing, plans for the next ST campaign will be starting shortly so it looks like another season of being stuck at the front of the East or us trying to do something purselves and group together elsewhere, unofficially. The latter is now probable.

ancient hibee
12-12-2016, 10:08 PM
Suppose it might be a little difficult advertising STs for unreconstructed abusers although it would probably be another UK if not world first for Hibernian FC.

danhibees1875
12-12-2016, 10:23 PM
This was brought up during the AGM. Leanne was quite clear when she said it was not something they were remotely thinking about at the moment.

Promotion first, then if there is appetite for it I'm sure hibs will consider it in due course.

H18 SFR
12-12-2016, 10:25 PM
This was brought up during the AGM. Leanne was quite clear when she said it was not something they were remotely thinking about at the moment.

Promotion first, then if there is appetite for it I'm sure hibs will consider it in due course.

So disappointing to hear that this isn't on the board's agenda.

Billy Whizz
12-12-2016, 10:29 PM
So disappointing to hear that this isn't on the board's agenda.

Costs money, do you want Hibs to invest in this just now or the team?

Unfortunately Leanne's PR isn't always the best, and maybe she should explain to the group why we can't do it at this stage

H18 SFR
12-12-2016, 10:31 PM
I'm not seeing the correlation between selling season tickets in a singing section and costing money.

Billy Whizz
12-12-2016, 10:37 PM
I'm not seeing the correlation between selling season tickets in a singing section and costing money.

Think if you want a standing section, which I think some do, would require money to take the seats away

GreenNWhiteArmy
12-12-2016, 10:40 PM
With all due respect, was there ever a real urge or significant interest in this? For it to even be considered,my opinion would be that the club would need assurances that we'd be shifting at least 1000 ST's in the lower FF to begin even considering this as an option

We can't just move people from an area because a few folk have said they wanted to move. Again I don't know numbers so apologies if this has actually been done and concrete numbers handed to the club.

From next season, why not shift down towards the FF end of the East? Or is it more important to be towards the away fans to shout abuse?

Personally I'd love a signing section behind the goals,much like man utd/Liverpool and Dortmund currently have but there's no point half arsing it cause a few folk fancy it! The FF has been known as the family stand in all my days supporting hibs so would be a big change imo

H18 SFR
12-12-2016, 10:43 PM
Think if you want a standing section, which I think some do, would require money to take the seats away

I'm sure some do want a safe standing area, I'd more than settle for a half decent atmosphere.

cmcd
12-12-2016, 11:08 PM
Costs money, do you want Hibs to invest in this just now or the team?

Unfortunately Leanne's PR isn't always the best, and maybe she should explain to the group why we can't do it at this stage

Leanne's PR isn't always the best. Are you for real ? Leanne's PR is first class . Also as a pensioner I am very happy to SIT in the FF Lower

Dashing Bob S
12-12-2016, 11:21 PM
With all due respect, was there ever a real urge or significant interest in this? For it to even be considered,my opinion would be that the club would need assurances that we'd be shifting at least 1000 ST's in the lower FF to begin even considering this as an option

We can't just move people from an area because a few folk have said they wanted to move. Again I don't know numbers so apologies if this has actually been done and concrete numbers handed to the club.

From next season, why not shift down towards the FF end of the East? Or is it more important to be towards the away fans to shout abuse?

Personally I'd love a signing section behind the goals,much like man utd/Liverpool and Dortmund currently have but there's no point half arsing it cause a few folk fancy it! The FF has been known as the family stand in all my days supporting hibs so would be a big change imo

Yes. It's hard to find a week going by on this board without somebody complaining about the behavior of other supporters. Either too vocal and verbally abusive or too quiet and prawn sandwich.

Fact is that different supporters expect different things from the match day experience, and not enough thought is given to this. So they end up sitting next to people who annoy them. It's become institutionalized as a continual running sore.

What's wrong with giving people what they want? If I went in a family group, I wouldn't want to sit beside drunk guys acting out or young kids posturing, as in the old East. If I was there with a group of friends and we had a few drinks, I probably would.

We moan about lifestyle clashes on this board, and Lennon has (rightly) complained about the poor atmosphere at home games. It's not rocket science, and it wouldn't take the big deal of effort to re-designate the FF as the traditional end, and a block of the East as the family area.

NAE NOOKIE
12-12-2016, 11:22 PM
Disappointed to hear the club seem so reticent to look at doing something with the FF lower.

To be honest I'm fed up beating my gums about it, but if folk are so dead set against it perhaps they could come up with some ideas of how to improve the atmosphere ..... how about some signs around the stadium with 'ITS OK TO MAKE A NOISE, THIS IS A FOOTBALL GROUND NOT A LIBRARY' written on them.

jacomo
12-12-2016, 11:40 PM
Yes. It's hard to find a week going by on this board without somebody complaining about the behavior of other supporters. Either too vocal and verbally abusive or too quiet and prawn sandwich.

Fact is that different supporters expect different things from the match day experience, and not enough thought is given to this. So they end up sitting next to people who annoy them. It's become institutionalized as a continual running sore.

What's wrong with giving people what they want? If I went in a family group, I wouldn't want to sit beside drunk guys acting out or young kids posturing, as in the old East. If I was there with a group of friends and we had a few drinks, I probably would.

We moan about lifestyle clashes on this board, and Lennon has (rightly) complained about the poor atmosphere at home games. It's not rocket science, and it wouldn't take the big deal of effort to re-designate the FF as the traditional end, and a block of the East as the family area.

West Bob, west. The East should always be a free for all.

Otherwise 100% agree.

HappyAsHellas
12-12-2016, 11:42 PM
I remember asking Leeann if she was impressed with our vocal support at the PBS and she said she was. I suggested doing something with the FF which I never heard about again after emailing her on the subject. We have the people who want to sing and back the team as our away support has shown, but it seems no one is interested in bringing them together in one place and bringing much needed atmosphere to ER.

jacomo
12-12-2016, 11:51 PM
I remember asking Leeann if she was impressed with our vocal support at the PBS and she said she was. I suggested doing something with the FF which I never heard about again after emailing her on the subject. We have the people who want to sing and back the team as our away support has shown, but it seems no one is interested in bringing them together in one place and bringing much needed atmosphere to ER.


:agree:

Crazy that the club isn't even thinking about it.

Andy74
13-12-2016, 12:24 AM
This was brought up during the AGM. Leanne was quite clear when she said it was not something they were remotely thinking about at the moment.

Promotion first, then if there is appetite for it I'm sure hibs will consider it in due course.

Is safe standing and relocating the 'singing section' to the FF not two different things? It is possible to relocate without investing in safe standing.

Which of the two did Dempster dismiss at the AGM?

Hermit Crab
13-12-2016, 12:29 AM
Safe standing is the way forward for that end of the ground

danhibees1875
13-12-2016, 12:44 AM
Is safe standing and relocating the 'singing section' to the FF not two different things? It is possible to relocate without investing in safe standing.

Which of the two did Dempster dismiss at the AGM?
I guess so yeah. She dismissed safe standing (unless I'm mistaken). So I guess there could still be a relocation project underway. I'm surprised there is that much demand for it?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

basehibby
13-12-2016, 02:47 AM
I think this would be great. We could do with a focal point for the singers to gather and I think having a standing area would galvanise those of that persuasion to get on board. At the moment though the FF is seen as a family stand so it would take a bit of a re-think on the part of the club to get it going. This is something that should be taken up with the supporter-board members is it not?!?

Jones28
13-12-2016, 06:13 AM
Are the rail seats not quite expensive?

hibsbollah
13-12-2016, 06:21 AM
With all due respect, was there ever a real urge or significant interest in this?

Over 90% in a poll of over 150 Hibs net users were in support of rail seats in a new safe standing area. Who obviously aren't representative of every Hibs fan but it gives an idea at least.

hibsbollah
13-12-2016, 06:32 AM
Are the rail seats not quite expensive?

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/actions-for-fans/

Its hard to be exact, depending on the size of the area, but five figures not six for the seats according to the manufacturers. I never found a figure for installation. If we were selling out every week we would recoup this quickly in increased income (even if the prices were cut you can still fit more rail seats into an area than traditional seats) but of course we dont sell out every week, so Hibs would have to make an initial loss on the works. Which explains Leeanns tetchiness. Of course, that doesn't factor in a possible increased attendance due to families being able to congregate happily and radges able to congregate happily without the two spoiling each others Saturday afternoons. It could quite easily result in a happier fan base and more income in the long run.

The whole 'we need to spend every penny on the team' argument just smacks of a lack of vision IMO. Were unlikely to miss out on a promotion guaranteeing player because we're unwilling to invest in a few small stadium improvements.

Since90+2
13-12-2016, 06:54 AM
Disappointed the club won't even look at this.

It's pretty obvious to most fans that it's something that would improve the atmosphere. Strange decision by the club not to even meet with the fans group to discuss (even if it's to explain the reasoning why not).

Any chance one of the fan reps could ask the question and report back on here?

marinello59
13-12-2016, 06:59 AM
Disappointed the club won't even look at this.

It's pretty obvious to most fans that it's something that would improve the atmosphere. Strange decision by the club not to even meet with the fans group to discuss (even if it's to explain the reasoning why not).

Any chance one of the fan reps could ask the question and report back on here?

Surely the club has discussed this with the fans over the past few years at the various working groups? (I forget what they are called)

Since90+2
13-12-2016, 07:03 AM
Surely the club has discussed this with the fans over the past few years at the various working groups? (I forget what they are called)

Possibly. If they have though I haven't seen it widely reported hence it's continually discussed on here.

Its also odd they agreed to meet with the fans group currently at the front of the East to discuss it but then never took it further or responded to their messages.

linlithgowhibbie
13-12-2016, 07:12 AM
I remember asking Leeann if she was impressed with our vocal support at the PBS and she said she was. I suggested doing something with the FF which I never heard about again after emailing her on the subject. We have the people who want to sing and back the team as our away support has shown, but it seems no one is interested in bringing them together in one place and bringing much needed atmosphere to ER.


Section 43 of the East was advertised as the singing section.
For a while it was. However when "Section 43 the singers/drummer" went to the front to get away from the wee plonkers who were setting off smoke bombs they took away the focal point for singing to catch on from the majority of fans at the back and middle of the section.
I sit in row r in section 43 and am dismayed at how few now join in most of the songs/chants but to be fair to the "Section 43 group/Since 1875 group" they do their best with little help from those around.
I personally don't think moving to FF Lower is a good idea that will magically have 2000 plus singers when there are only 50-60 on a good day.
Everyone who wants to sing could already be in S43, the singing section

Since90+2
13-12-2016, 07:22 AM
Section 43 of the East was advertised as the singing section.
For a while it was. However when "Section 43 the singers/drummer" went to the front to get away from the wee plonkers who were setting off smoke bombs they took away the focal point for singing to catch on from the majority of fans at the back and middle of the section.
I sit in row r in section 43 and am dismayed at how few now join in most of the songs/chants but to be fair to the "Section 43 group/Since 1875 group" they do their best with little help from those around.
I personally don't think moving to FF Lower is a good idea that will magically have 2000 plus singers when there are only 50-60 on a good day.
Everyone who wants to sing could already be in S43, the singing section

The problem is about half of the folk in sect 43 don't really want to sing or even stand. My season ticket is in row x and we have people behind us who insist on sitting down and it's the same further down the stand. You are not going to create a great atmosphere when half the fans want to sit down which then means others have to do likewise.

Pretty Boy
13-12-2016, 07:48 AM
I'd be curious as to how many people are actually not attending games because of the current ground set up, whether that be those wanting a 'free for all' area or families put off by current behaviour. Given we are attracting better crowds than at any other time in my lifetime, in the 2nd tier as well, I'm going to guess the answer is not many.

This seems an obsessive issue for some. Personally I'd like to stand and failing that I'd have no objection to a dedicated area for a singing section in the FF lower. However I can't help think that amongst the whole support it's very much a minority issue.

hibsbollah
13-12-2016, 07:56 AM
I'd be curious as to how many people are actually not attending games because of the current ground set up, whether that be those wanting a 'free for all' area or families put off by current behaviour. Given we are attracting better crowds than at any other time in my lifetime, in the 2nd tier as well, I'm going to guess the answer is not many.

This seems an obsessive issue for some. Personally I'd like to stand and failing that I'd have no objection to a dedicated area for a singing section in the FF lower. However I can't help think that amongst the whole support it's very much a minority issue.

The attendances are up because of the Glorious Scottish Cup Final Win 2016. Almost 14k against Dumbarton was 8k IIRC last season cant really be down to anything else. Its certainly not indicative of an improved 'matchday experience'(apologies) because that side of things is still as you were. (Some say the pies have improved, I'm not so sure).

Its certainly a 'minority issue' for me compared to having a winning team, but its not an either/or, is it?

Pretty Boy
13-12-2016, 08:11 AM
The attendances are up because of the Glorious Scottish Cup Final Win 2016. Almost 14k against Dumbarton was 8k IIRC last season cant really be down to anything else. Its certainly not indicative of an improved 'matchday experience'(apologies) because that side of things is still as you were. (Some say the pies have improved, I'm not so sure).

Its certainly a 'minority issue' for me compared to having a winning team, but its not an either/or, is it?

Which was to some extent my point. The key driver of increased attendances is a successful football team, everything else is ultimately window dressing. If Hibs were competing in the latter stages of cups every year and, hopefully in the not too distant future, pushing for European football regularly fans would stand in Leith Links watching.

I've read a lot about safe standing and pretty much all the literature I can find bases it's financial argument on increasing capacity for teams selling out every week. It even argues you can reduce pricing and make more money in increased attendances. That's not a position Hibs are close to being in, and I doubt we have the regular fan base to ever be in that position these days. It cost Celtic approxinately £500K to install their safe standing area. If we estimate it would cost Hibs even a quarter of that then it really is an either or situation. It's a capital investment with little evidence of any tangible reward or 2 players on £2000 a week for 2 years.

blackpoolhibs
13-12-2016, 08:28 AM
I cant see how this would cost the club one penny in cost, Dundee Utd who we only played last week have a section behind the goal, where they congregate to make an atmosphere and try and suck the ball in when shooting towards that end.

They dont have safe standing.

I personally think if our lads who want to sing and behave a little bit more riskier than others like, and they want to stand and get behind the team, then the bottom tier of the FF is the ideal place for this.

I also think over time it would become the place to be, and would grow very quickly. It would also help the team which is no bad thing, and the atmosphere would grow week on week imo.

The only negative i can see is some people would have to move either upstair if there is room, or to another stand, just like i had to do when the club put bench seats in before the new stand was built.

hibsbollah
13-12-2016, 08:32 AM
Which was to some extent my point. The key driver of increased attendances is a successful football team, everything else is ultimately window dressing. If Hibs were competing in the latter stages of cups every year and, hopefully in the not too distant future, pushing for European football regularly fans would stand in Leith Links watching.

I've read a lot about safe standing and pretty much all the literature I can find bases it's financial argument on increasing capacity for teams selling out every week. It even argues you can reduce pricing and make more money in increased attendances. That's not a position Hibs are close to being in, and I doubt we have the regular fan base to ever be in that position these days. It cost Celtic approxinately £500K to install their safe standing area. If we estimate it would cost Hibs even a quarter of that then it really is an either or situation. It's a capital investment with little evidence of any tangible reward or 2 players on £2000 a week for 2 years.


It very much depends on who those two signings are; Makalambay and Alan O'Brien? :greengrin

Of course it will cost in the short term. And your point about it making financial sense for big clubs who sell out their stadiums is one I made earlier, so I agree. But hopefully we're Hibs for the rest of our lives and we need to think of the long term. If we can leap to 8k to 14k for a Dumbarton game in the second tier in just one season, theres no reason to think attendances will always be where they are from one year to the next.

Pretty Boy
13-12-2016, 08:42 AM
It very much depends on who those two signings are; Makalambay and Alan O'Brien? :greengrin

Of course it will cost in the short term. And your point about it making financial sense for big clubs who sell out their stadiums is one I made earlier, so I agree. But hopefully we're Hibs for the rest of our lives and we need to think of the long term. If we can leap to 8k to 14k for a Dumbarton game in the second tier in just one season, theres no reason to think attendances will always be where they are from one year to the next.

I agree it's about long term thinking. I'm just trying to come at it from the angle that Hibs will. If a group or groups are serious about engaging with Hibs in installing a standing section they need to be able to present a clear case for it's worth otherwise they will continue to be 'dismissed'. Whatever you, I or anyone else thinks Hibs aren't going to invest in a big infastructure project without some evidence of the benefits.

Fwiw if it was me 'leading the charge' I would seriously consider looking at the modern way of getting things done that you believe in and trying to crowdfund it. 2000 people at £75 and you'd be a good chunk of the way there, if people really feel that strongly about it then that's very achievable. It's certainly an idea that should be taken to Hibs imo.

In the short term I think it would make sense for both Hibs and interested parties to try and reach a compromise that sees an area set aside and sold as a singing section for next season. One of the end blocks of the East would be the immediate solution until something else can be arranged imo.

Arch Stanton
13-12-2016, 09:01 AM
I'm not seeing the correlation between selling season tickets in a singing section and costing money.

Not so much the money as the bother I'm guessing. It is currently a familly section so a move would need to be organised for all those wishing it (although when I was there I didn't find it particuarly familly friendly.)

Then you need to identify another area to make familly friendly and move out all the objectionables - and since no-one ever considers themselves to be objectionable it is probably easier said than done. And since the move would have to be to one of the main stands then the tickets would cost more - not going to be popular.

While I can see ways in which this could be done I can also understand if the club are wary about going there.

green&left
13-12-2016, 09:06 AM
Costs money, do you want Hibs to invest in this just now or the team?

Unfortunately Leanne's PR isn't always the best, and maybe she should explain to the group why we can't do it at this stage

Partick Thistle and Dundee Utd have an end now behind the goals where they allow fans to stand. Think this is what people on here are proposing and not the Celtic safe standing section (yet).

Disappointing as the atmosphere is ******g dreadful at ER these days.

marinello59
13-12-2016, 09:12 AM
Partick Thistle and Dundee Utd have an end now behind the goals where they allow fans to stand. Think this is what people on here are proposing and not the Celtic safe standing section (yet).

Disappointing as the atmosphere is ******g dreadful at ER these days.

Fan are effectively allowed to stand in Section 43 at present. Maybe if the area was constantly packed out with hundreds of noisy supporters then it would demonstrate to the club that the demand exists. It's down to ourselves really.

Moulin Yarns
13-12-2016, 09:19 AM
There is a problem with allowing standing, whether by design or tolerance, in the Famous Five lower stand in that there are boxes at the back which would have their view of the pitch blocked by those standing. The only sections where it would work are the end sections. If the family section were then in the upper tier then the kids might grow up to know singing and continue the singing in the future.


http://www.stiftland-groundhopper.de/nonground/101025%20Easter%20Road%20Stadium%20Edinburgh/EasterRoadStadium_9.jpg

Since90+2
13-12-2016, 09:22 AM
Fan are effectively allowed to stand in Section 43 at present. Maybe if the area was constantly packed out with hundreds of noisy supporters then it would demonstrate to the club that the demand exists. It's down to ourselves really.

Fans are not allowed to stand as atleast half section 43 insist on sitting down. I'm more than half way up the stand and have to sit down due fans behind complaining they can't see if we stand.

Mr White
13-12-2016, 09:32 AM
There is a problem with allowing standing, whether by design or tolerance, in the Famous Five lower stand in that there are boxes at the back which would have their view of the pitch blocked by those standing. The only sections where it would work are the end sections. If the family section were then in the upper tier then the kids might grow up to know singing and continue the singing in the future.


http://www.stiftland-groundhopper.de/nonground/101025%20Easter%20Road%20Stadium%20Edinburgh/EasterRoadStadium_9.jpg

This has been mentioned before but I'm not convinced. I think there's currently enough clearance to allow an unobstructed view of the pitch from the boxes if people in the back row stand up.

Has anyone ever heard of any issues with people standing up in the back row of the ff lower blocking the view from the boxes?

I suspect it might have been discussed on here if it was a problem at goal celebrations or penalties etc.

Keith_M
13-12-2016, 09:33 AM
With all due respect, was there ever a real urge or significant interest in this? For it to even be considered,my opinion would be that the club would need assurances that we'd be shifting at least 1000 ST's in the lower FF to begin even considering this as an option



To me that's the clincher. There has been plenty of talk about it on here but I've yet to hear of significant numbers of people committing themsleves to move to that section.


In actual fact, there are currently 1,800 Season Ticket holders in the FF Lower. Can the proponents of this move provide a similar number of names of people desperate to move?

I'd hate to think the club would move 1,800 people to other parts of the ground... and we get a 100 strong Singing Section in their place.

marinello59
13-12-2016, 09:52 AM
Fans are not allowed to stand as atleast half section 43 insist on sitting down. I'm more than half way up the stand and have to sit down due fans behind complaining they can't see if we stand.

That section was extensively advertised as a singing section. If the people already in it arent interested then it's hardly giving the club the message that the demand is there. Rather than saying build it and we will come we should be demonstrating that we are here already here.
The front section used to operate on some sort of voucher system didn't it? I don't know if that's still the case, I havent seen it promoted on here all season. Let's start by filling that again on a regular basis. It really is in our own hands to make things happen.

WhileTheChief..
13-12-2016, 10:06 AM
It would only work if it was the stadiums equivalent of a naughty step!

Caught shouting abuse in the west lower - right, you're in the FF next week son!

Seriously though, the type of person that shouts out abuse constantly isn't self aware enough to think that they're a problem. They're not going to give up their season ticket elsewhere to move just because they're then 'allowed' to shout what they want.

The end sections of the East are usually the quietest, why not congregate there thus preventing folk moving away from family and friends that they have sat beside for years. There's more than enough empty seats in the far north block to hold the entire 'singing section' without anyone being told to move.

Appears to be a tiny minority of fans want things changed with scant regards to those that are happy where they are.

H18 SFR
13-12-2016, 10:20 AM
The problem is about half of the folk in sect 43 don't really want to sing or even stand. My season ticket is in row x and we have people behind us who insist on sitting down and it's the same further down the stand. You are not going to create a great atmosphere when half the fans want to sit down which then means others have to do likewise.

Our ST's are close by you, to be fair, yes there are some who stand, but they certainly don't sing. Standing does not guarantee singing

Moulin Yarns
13-12-2016, 10:27 AM
This has been mentioned before but I'm not convinced. I think there's currently enough clearance to allow an unobstructed view of the pitch from the boxes if people in the back row stand up.

Has anyone ever heard of any issues with people standing up in the back row of the ff lower blocking the view from the boxes?

I suspect it might have been discussed on here if it was a problem at goal celebrations or penalties etc.

I had a season ticket back row next to a window and there is no way people in the boxes would see the game if people stood in front of the windows.

blackpoolhibs
13-12-2016, 10:31 AM
I think a lot are missing the main point here, this can never work in the east as some people dont want folk standing in front of them.

There needs to be a designated place where nobody will be upset should people stand, sing or maybe even swear god forbid it.

Anyone going to the FF lower would know this before even entering the stadium.

Billy Whizz
13-12-2016, 10:34 AM
I think a lot are missing the main point here, this can never work in the east as some people dont want folk standing in front of them.

There needs to be a designated place where nobody will be upset should people stand, sing or maybe even swear god forbid it.

Anyone going to the FF lower would know this before even entering the stadium.

Put them in the South, loads of space

Mr White
13-12-2016, 10:36 AM
I had a season ticket back row next to a window and there is no way people in the boxes would see the game if people stood in front of the windows.

Ok. That must cause a few issues currently then, at goalmouth scrambles, penalties or other events that lead to people standing up.

Moulin Yarns
13-12-2016, 10:48 AM
Ok. That must cause a few issues currently then, at goalmouth scrambles, penalties or other events that lead to people standing up.

The back row in the end sections are right up by the wall, the back row in front of the windows is 1 row lower, so it is possible to see out of the windows, certainly to the far end, but I'm not sure about the near goal.

This photo looks like it is me at the right hand end, sitting beside the window, and there are 2 people sitting in the row in front (the same row that is the back row in front of the windows) Further left there are people standing near the back.

http://www.youngpars.co.uk/pictures/CIS_SEMI_250106A.jpg

Pretty Boy
13-12-2016, 10:51 AM
I'm always very aware that when these threads raise their heads from time to time I always appear deliberately obtuse or obstructive and it's really not the case. I think people trying to do something constructive within the stadium to improve attendance and/or atmosphere is a good thing.

However that has to be balanced with realism. I've spent much of the last 3 year working on pitches for business, contracts etc. Whether that be actually presenting the pitch or doing the dirty work in the background. I've also previously worked for a charity where I presented our case to be the charitable partner for some medium to large businesses. One of the key things we always bear in mind is that we are presenting what we can do for the prospective client and not the other way round. Going in with a sense of idealism and demands of what you want isn't going to get you far. If we offer better pricing than a competitor I focus on that, if we can offer a better, local service I focus on that and so on.

Obviously it's disappointing for those wanting to push this that Hibs have been unwilling to deal thus far. However rather than seeing this as a loss, why not use it as an opportunity to spend a few months preparing a really strong case to present to Hibs on why this is a good idea and offer a few options and solutions to objections they may have.

A few ideas I would have are as follows:

Use the numerous free survey websites available to gauge as wide a range of opinions as possible. Get them out there on .net, Facebook, Twitter, the Bounce etc. Get paper copies made and hand them out at games, leave them in pubs, the Hibs club and so on then have a look at what you are being told and form this into as plan. Are people in the FF lower actually willing to move? Are there decent numbers actually interested in a singing and/or standing section? What objections are being presented and how do you counter those?

Think of and present relevant examples of this working elsewhere. Forget the German model as it's on another level. As said above look at the likes of Dundee Utd et al allowing standing behind the goals. How did they go about this? How did Celtic get their safe standing section and so on.

Present a couple of options and place emphasis on the positives of each. Also anticipate objections and counter them. How do you deal with the hospitality boxes behind the FF lower for example? How do you sell a move to elsewhere in the ground to those who currently sit there?

Investigate the possibility of potentially crowdfunding a standing section (in time). If you can secure an area behind the goals then that is the next step and it would be another good way of ascertaining exactly how passionate people are about the idea. Safe Standing is obviously a longer term goal but it's worth showing there is future appeal in the idea.

That sounds a bit like dragging the fun out things but ultimately Hibs are being asked to make a big decision with regards to the way the ground is used and they need evidence it's going to be a positive move. There seems enough interested parties that this could be organised quickly and efficiently if the will is really there.

Moulin Yarns
13-12-2016, 11:07 AM
I'm always very aware that when these threads raise their heads from time to time I always appear deliberately obtuse or obstructive and it's really not the case. I think people trying to do something constructive within the stadium to improve attendance and/or atmosphere is a good thing.

However that has to be balanced with realism. I've spent much of the last 3 year working on pitches for business, contracts etc. Whether that be actually presenting the pitch or doing the dirty work in the background. I've also previously worked for a charity where I presented our case to be the charitable partner for some medium to large businesses. One of the key things we always bear in mind is that we are presenting what we can do for the prospective client and not the other way round. Going in with a sense of idealism and demands of what you want isn't going to get you far. If we offer better pricing than a competitor I focus on that, if we can offer a better, local service I focus on that and so on.

Obviously it's disappointing for those wanting to push this that Hibs have been unwilling to deal thus far. However rather than seeing this as a loss, why not use it as an opportunity to spend a few months preparing a really strong case to present to Hibs on why this is a good idea and offer a few options and solutions to objections they may have.

A few ideas I would have are as follows:

Use the numerous free survey websites available to gauge as wide a range of opinions as possible. Get them out there on .net, Facebook, Twitter, the Bounce etc. Get paper copies made and hand them out at games, leave them in pubs, the Hibs club and so on then have a look at what you are being told and form this into as plan. Are people in the FF lower actually willing to move? Are there decent numbers actually interested in a singing and/or standing section? What objections are being presented and how do you counter those?

Think of and present relevant examples of this working elsewhere. Forget the German model as it's on another level. As said above look at the likes of Dundee Utd et al allowing standing behind the goals. How did they go about this? How did Celtic get their safe standing section and so on.

Present a couple of options and place emphasis on the positives of each. Also anticipate objections and counter them. How do you deal with the hospitality boxes behind the FF lower for example? How do you sell a move to elsewhere in the ground to those who currently sit there?

Investigate the possibility of potentially crowdfunding a standing section (in time). If you can secure an area behind the goals then that is the next step and it would be another good way of ascertaining exactly how passionate people are about the idea. Safe Standing is obviously a longer term goal but it's worth showing there is future appeal in the idea.

That sounds a bit like dragging the fun out things but ultimately Hibs are being asked to make a big decision with regards to the way the ground is used and they need evidence it's going to be a positive move. There seems enough interested parties that this could be organised quickly and efficiently if the will is really there.

Far too sensible a post, you'll get yourself banned! :greengrin

Since90+2
13-12-2016, 11:12 AM
I'm always very aware that when these threads raise their heads from time to time I always appear deliberately obtuse or obstructive and it's really not the case. I think people trying to do something constructive within the stadium to improve attendance and/or atmosphere is a good thing.

However that has to be balanced with realism. I've spent much of the last 3 year working on pitches for business, contracts etc. Whether that be actually presenting the pitch or doing the dirty work in the background. I've also previously worked for a charity where I presented our case to be the charitable partner for some medium to large businesses. One of the key things we always bear in mind is that we are presenting what we can do for the prospective client and not the other way round. Going in with a sense of idealism and demands of what you want isn't going to get you far. If we offer better pricing than a competitor I focus on that, if we can offer a better, local service I focus on that and so on.

Obviously it's disappointing for those wanting to push this that Hibs have been unwilling to deal thus far. However rather than seeing this as a loss, why not use it as an opportunity to spend a few months preparing a really strong case to present to Hibs on why this is a good idea and offer a few options and solutions to objections they may have.

A few ideas I would have are as follows:

Use the numerous free survey websites available to gauge as wide a range of opinions as possible. Get them out there on .net, Facebook, Twitter, the Bounce etc. Get paper copies made and hand them out at games, leave them in pubs, the Hibs club and so on then have a look at what you are being told and form this into as plan. Are people in the FF lower actually willing to move? Are there decent numbers actually interested in a singing and/or standing section? What objections are being presented and how do you counter those?

Think of and present relevant examples of this working elsewhere. Forget the German model as it's on another level. As said above look at the likes of Dundee Utd et al allowing standing behind the goals. How did they go about this? How did Celtic get their safe standing section and so on.

Present a couple of options and place emphasis on the positives of each. Also anticipate objections and counter them. How do you deal with the hospitality boxes behind the FF lower for example? How do you sell a move to elsewhere in the ground to those who currently sit there?

Investigate the possibility of potentially crowdfunding a standing section (in time). If you can secure an area behind the goals then that is the next step and it would be another good way of ascertaining exactly how passionate people are about the idea. Safe Standing is obviously a longer term goal but it's worth showing there is future appeal in the idea.

That sounds a bit like dragging the fun out things but ultimately Hibs are being asked to make a big decision with regards to the way the ground is used and they need evidence it's going to be a positive move. There seems enough interested parties that this could be organised quickly and efficiently if the will is really there.

All good points.

Should it not however be the job of the club to do these things , given the potential to improve the match day experience and atmosphere, rather than a set of fans?

hibsbollah
13-12-2016, 11:17 AM
Far too sensible a post, you'll get yourself banned! :greengrin

Its a sensible post, I agree. I personally put a bit of work into researching it before and did some indicative stuff for the old LWT group but there seemed to be a fair bit of negativity so I sort of shrugged and stepped away. I DO think you can learn from the German model even though its on a larger scale, and there is plenty of best practice down south. I think you need fairly thick skin to propose any sort of change to a football club, particularly when its so fundamental as to the fabric of the stadium itself.

Which is why I can see blackpool hibs' suggestion of a low cost 'stick them in the FF and let them stand up without being hassled' option, without installing rail seats, as the most likely.

I also agree with the post above; It really ought to be the club that is the driver of this, but that's not going to happen.

Pretty Boy
13-12-2016, 11:19 AM
All good points.

Should it not however be the job of the club to do these things , given the potential to improve the match day experience and atmosphere, rather than a set of fans?

I would hope it would be something the club and fans could work on together. If the club were receptive I like the idea of it being partly/mostly fan led and would be happy to help where I could.

lugz
13-12-2016, 11:26 AM
As someone who sits in the FF lower with my young daughter I'd rather leave any section like this in the East. I've only been going since the mid 90s but as far back as I can remember the East has always been where you'd go for atmosphere.

The family section is there for a reason and being in beside other young children is a big reason my daughter is growing to love hibs games.

Keith_M
13-12-2016, 11:54 AM
I think a lot are missing the main point here, this can never work in the east as some people dont want folk standing in front of them.

There needs to be a designated place where nobody will be upset should people stand, sing or maybe even swear god forbid it.

Anyone going to the FF lower would know this before even entering the stadium.


I'm not sure anybody's missing the point. The biggest objection seems to be the lack of evidence of a high enough demand to justify moving 1,800 Season Ticket holders.

If people came forward with a strong enough argument, and evidence to back it up, then maybe the club might listen.

Argylehibby
13-12-2016, 12:19 PM
This has been mentioned before but I'm not convinced. I think there's currently enough clearance to allow an unobstructed view of the pitch from the boxes if people in the back row stand up.

Has anyone ever heard of any issues with people standing up in the back row of the ff lower blocking the view from the boxes?

I suspect it might have been discussed on here if it was a problem at goal celebrations or penalties etc.

I was in one of the FF boxes a few weeks ago and the view is definately restricted if those at the back of the stand stand up.

NAE NOOKIE
13-12-2016, 12:26 PM
I did notice that on Saturday the only time the whole ground got into a 'Hibees' 'Hibees' chant it wasn't started from the East but from the West upper ....... I've never understood why the singing section has to insist on being located at the south end of the East**, if it were to be relocated to blocks 37 and 38 of the East ( perhaps the top 2 thirds of these two sections ) then the FF and north end of the West would surely be far more engaged with it than where it is just now.

The whole crux of this matter is getting other fans to join in with the singing started by what is currently section 43 .... It doesn't happen just now because they are located miles away from the areas which are regularly the best populated in the stadium, the FF lower and the north end of the West .... get them closer together and you could solve that problem.

** ..... well, actually I do, the point being I suppose to 'get into the faces of any away fans' but that's not having any affect .... from my vantage point in the FF if there is anything like a decent away support in the south they drown out what can be heard from section 43 at every turn.

Waxy
13-12-2016, 12:29 PM
Fill in the corner with a safe standing area.

NAE NOOKIE
13-12-2016, 12:40 PM
Fill in the corner with a safe standing area.

Tongue in cheek I presume.

Hibs will never fill in the corners with seats, or even a single corner like the FF/East with a standing area ..... There is no doubt that the ground would benefit hugely from filling in the corners, but when it eventually is done ( which it must be one day ) it will be with buildings not seats. When it happens I would like to see it in conjunction with the roofs of the FF, East and South being extended to be much closer to their respective touchlines, leading to a much more enclosed stadium.

Lago
13-12-2016, 12:45 PM
Having been a season ticket holder in both the East & FF the one point I would make is that viewing the game is totally different depending on which stand your in. Watching from the FF is not everyones cup of tea & I think many would drift back to the East or West stands.

Swedish hibee
13-12-2016, 12:53 PM
I've read through this and still don't get it... Why move all those families and OAPs who have sat there for years- just so a few can stand & sing?!!! Can't they just do this anywhere in the ground?

You talk about atmosphere.. great football brings a great atmosphere, so that's why ER is dead at the moment.

PiemanP
13-12-2016, 01:19 PM
The atmosphere has been dead ever since the group that used to stand at the back of S43 moved down the front. The Acoustics don't work down there and sounds no longer travels down the stand encouraging people to sing.

Time for the group to contact the club and move back up top and the fans need to self-police if any of the wee neds with the smoke bombs show up again.

As for any of the "sit down brigade" in Section 43 they should be told to bolt. It's advertised as the singing section, singing = standing...the upside of such a big stadium is there's c.14k other home seats where you can sit down happily and watch the game without anyone bothering you.

ancient hibee
13-12-2016, 02:06 PM
To remove ten times as many fans as want to stand and sing is clearly never going to happen.Equally in an era when people sue for compensation if they trip over their own feet the club is never going to say that it's OK for fans to stand without having provided a safe standing area.As this is going to cost that won't happen anytime soon.

Vini1875
13-12-2016, 02:49 PM
To me the blame lies with the section 43 lads themselves and stupid group decisions. 1. smoke bombs and too rowdy elements so they moved to the front of the stand, effectively splitting any free for all experience. 2. The Scottish Cup display v celtc which caused a big fall out and fragmenting the group.

It is a simple move to be at the back of the stand in section 43 where the noise carries down the stand and others will join in. They do well at away games it has to be said and create plenty of noise and atmosphere, but they never position themselves at the front of an away stand.

Moving to the FF would be another daft move which cause bother where none has to exist. Easy enough to let people know Section 43 is a standing/singing section in the same that under the cameras was in the old East.

Since1875Hibs
13-12-2016, 05:39 PM
The atmosphere has been dead ever since the group that used to stand at the back of S43 moved down the front. The Acoustics don't work down there and sounds no longer travels down the stand encouraging people to sing.

Time for the group to contact the club and move back up top and the fans need to self-police if any of the wee neds with the smoke bombs show up again.

As for any of the "sit down brigade" in Section 43 they should be told to bolt. It's advertised as the singing section, singing = standing...the upside of such a big stadium is there's c.14k other home seats where you can sit down happily and watch the game without anyone bothering you.

That was the purpose of the meeting to relocate elsewhere, not safe standing. Despite numerous attempts through a variety of contacts (inc. fan rep) we're no further forward.

As a Group of like-minded supporters we've put a significant amount of our own personal time, effort and finances over the past 3-4 years into improving the atmosphere at matches, home, away and abroad. We aren't looking for an ego massage, but we would like the club to utilise our commitment and skills to allow us to make the match day expereicne better for all.

Since1875Hibs
13-12-2016, 05:42 PM
To me the blame lies with the section 43 lads themselves and stupid group decisions. 1. smoke bombs and too rowdy elements so they moved to the front of the stand, effectively splitting any free for all experience. 2. The Scottish Cup display v celtc which caused a big fall out and fragmenting the group.

It is a simple move to be at the back of the stand in section 43 where the noise carries down the stand and others will join in. They do well at away games it has to be said and create plenty of noise and atmosphere, but they never position themselves at the front of an away stand.

Moving to the FF would be another daft move which cause bother where none has to exist. Easy enough to let people know Section 43 is a standing/singing section in the same that under the cameras was in the old East.

See my latest post re relocation.

The responsibility of atmosphere is with everyone in the ground - not just the ones that are proactively trying to make a difference.

Fizz
13-12-2016, 05:42 PM
I don't understand why other fans think it's ok to just up and move to another part of the stadium shifting others just to suit them. I first bought season tickets for us and our kids in 1999 and now - still in the same seats - our grandchildren. The specific wording in Hibernian site re " is there a family section?" is - " The Famous Five lower is the home of our family section. Discounted prices are only for groups that include children or youths" - so I pay £335 x 2 for 2 adult tickets and £25 each for the grandchildren. If I was forced to move to another stand that would jump to £380 x 2 and £135 each for the grandchildren - eh I don't think so. That section is also used extensively by carers. I know this sounds very selfish but I think everyone's views should be put forward. The atmosphers's rubbish because the football is not very exciting for the most part so I don't think it really matters where you try to start a singing section it won't work if the lads are bored out their skulls!

cmcd
13-12-2016, 05:49 PM
I am a pensioner who loves his seat in the FF Lower surrounded by friends. I do not want to be seated anywhere else. If I was forced into moving it would have to be the FF Upper at the same price

marinello59
13-12-2016, 05:50 PM
That was the purpose of the meeting to relocate elsewhere, not safe standing. Despite numerous attempts through a variety of contacts (inc. fan rep) we're no further forward.

As a Group of like-minded supporters we've put a significant amount of our own personal time, effort and finances over the past 3-4 years into improving the atmosphere at matches, home, away and abroad. We aren't looking for an ego massage, but we would like the club to utilise our commitment and skills to allow us to make the match day expereicne better for all.

Is the voucher system for entry to the front of Section 43 still operating or has it been quietly dropped?

Since1875Hibs
13-12-2016, 05:52 PM
Is the voucher system for entry to the front of Section 43 still operating or has it been quietly dropped?

Dropped. Hasn't been used all season.

Glory Lurker
13-12-2016, 05:52 PM
The atmosphere should improve when we get promoted and, with one or two exceptions, the away support amounts to more than two busloads.

Dashing Bob S
13-12-2016, 06:02 PM
That was the purpose of the meeting to relocate elsewhere, not safe standing. Despite numerous attempts through a variety of contacts (inc. fan rep) we're no further forward.

As a Group of like-minded supporters we've put a significant amount of our own personal time, effort and finances over the past 3-4 years into improving the atmosphere at matches, home, away and abroad. We aren't looking for an ego massage, but we would like the club to utilise our commitment and skills to allow us to make the match day expereicne better for all.

It's a shame. The club should be accepting that football audiences have different expectations of a day out. Until we have a dedicated space where (within reason) anything goes, fans won't feel disinhibited enough to create an atmosphere. The old East was ideal in terms of it's size. The hardcore were under the cameras, and their enthusiasm at certain times could light up the rest of the East, and even, on occasion, the whole stadium.

As has been said, the new East is probably too big to operate in the same way. The FF lower seems an ideal spot.

It seems very short-sighted that the club won't engage properly with this, as they've been progressive in other areas.

In the long run, the poor atmosphere and the enforced mixing of groups who want different things from the matchday experience (ie: peace to watch the game and concentrate on what's happening on the park, versus a party atmosphere and vocally supporting the club and letting off some steam) will only lead to a decline in attendance.

We should be trying to consolidate on the Scottish Cup fueled regeneration of our fanbase, not letting the opportunity slip away.

Well done to you guys for sticking at it.

marinello59
13-12-2016, 06:03 PM
Dropped. Hasn't been used all season.

So how is attendance on that area now? If that's what we have at the moment then maybe getting all those on here calling for a dedicated singing section to use the area we have will make the club take more notice. A clear demonstration of the demand for this could only a good thing.

Pretty Boy
13-12-2016, 06:11 PM
That was the purpose of the meeting to relocate elsewhere, not safe standing. Despite numerous attempts through a variety of contacts (inc. fan rep) we're no further forward.

As a Group of like-minded supporters we've put a significant amount of our own personal time, effort and finances over the past 3-4 years into improving the atmosphere at matches, home, away and abroad. We aren't looking for an ego massage, but we would like the club to utilise our commitment and skills to allow us to make the match day expereicne better for all.

That's a shame.

For me the top 3rd of the 2 sections of the East nearest the FF would be an ideal place to at least trial a new section in the short term.

Since1875Hibs
13-12-2016, 06:30 PM
So how is attendance on that area now? If that's what we have at the moment then maybe getting all those on here calling for a dedicated singing section to use the area we have will make the club take more notice. A clear demonstration of the demand for this could only a good thing.

We know of a number of people (in their 100s) who would partake in a formalised area for singing/atmosphere, but aren't wanting the view at the front of the East.

In saying that, your point is valid and I am going to set up a SurveyMonkey in the near future to try capture this demand more formally.

hibsbollah
13-12-2016, 06:33 PM
We know of a number of people (in their 100s) who would partake in a formalised area for singing/atmosphere.

I thought the point was to attract more young folk?:tumble:

Arch Stanton
13-12-2016, 06:59 PM
I've read through this and still don't get it... Why move all those families and OAPs who have sat there for years- just so a few can stand & sing?!!! Can't they just do this anywhere in the ground?

You talk about atmosphere.. great football brings a great atmosphere, so that's why ER is dead at the moment.

FYI - OAPs are not necessarily pleasant grey haired folks who sip their Bovril and munch contendedly on their pies. They can be as loud and as foul mouthed as anyone. I know this because it's why I moved away from there a year after it opened.

It's my view that making the FF stand a familly section was a big mistake from the outset and that relocatting it would improve the match-day experience for most.

On the other hand I can't see it happening in any case.

Pete70
13-12-2016, 07:08 PM
Me and my family are season ticket holders and have been happily sitting the FF lower for years just like many hundreds of other families. Can any anyone tell me how our match day experience will be improved if we are evicted from our seats and forced to sit in another part of the stadium?
Why should we be forced to move against our will because someone else doesn't like where they are sitting?

Arch Stanton
13-12-2016, 07:12 PM
Me and my family are season ticket holders and have been happily sitting the FF lower for years just like many hundreds of other families. Can any anyone tell me how our match day experience will be improved if we are evicted from our seats and forced to sit in another part of the stadium?
Why should we be forced to move against our will because someone else doesn't like where they are sitting?

The FF stand has only been there 20 years or so - did you never attend ER before that? Were you never forced to move seats in order to improve the stadium?

Simple enough question, isn't it?

Since1875Hibs
13-12-2016, 07:12 PM
Me and my family are season ticket holders and have been happily sitting the FF lower for years just like many hundreds of other families. Can any anyone tell me how our match day experience will be improved if we are evicted from our seats and forced to sit in another part of the stadium?
Why should we be forced to move against our will because someone else doesn't like where they are sitting?

No one is suggesting anyone would be forced. This isn't about people moving because they are unhappy where they sit. If they were, they can very easily relocate.

The suggestion is around the bigger picture of improving ER and lack of atmosphere currently being generated.

jacomo
13-12-2016, 07:22 PM
I've read through this and still don't get it... Why move all those families and OAPs who have sat there for years- just so a few can stand & sing?!!! Can't they just do this anywhere in the ground?

You talk about atmosphere.. great football brings a great atmosphere, so that's why ER is dead at the moment.

People respond to their environment. Atmosphere at football matches is about design as well as inclination.

tamig
13-12-2016, 07:42 PM
I think this would be great. We could do with a focal point for the singers to gather and I think having a standing area would galvanise those of that persuasion to get on board. At the moment though the FF is seen as a family stand so it would take a bit of a re-think on the part of the club to get it going. This is something that should be taken up with the supporter-board members is it not?!?
Section 43 used to be that area until the bangers and smoke bombs started going off. It's been done already.

jacomo
13-12-2016, 08:37 PM
I don't understand why other fans think it's ok to just up and move to another part of the stadium shifting others just to suit them. I first bought season tickets for us and our kids in 1999 and now - still in the same seats - our grandchildren. The specific wording in Hibernian site re " is there a family section?" is - " The Famous Five lower is the home of our family section. Discounted prices are only for groups that include children or youths" - so I pay £335 x 2 for 2 adult tickets and £25 each for the grandchildren. If I was forced to move to another stand that would jump to £380 x 2 and £135 each for the grandchildren - eh I don't think so. That section is also used extensively by carers. I know this sounds very selfish but I think everyone's views should be put forward. The atmosphers's rubbish because the football is not very exciting for the most part so I don't think it really matters where you try to start a singing section it won't work if the lads are bored out their skulls!

I don't think you are selfish. Clearly any change will inconvenience some, and the club would have to make sure folk weren't out of pocket.

But I still think it's the right thing to do. Behind the goal is the natural place for a more rowdy crowd.

Swedish hibee
13-12-2016, 09:57 PM
FYI - OAPs are not necessarily pleasant grey haired folks who sip their Bovril and munch contendedly on their pies. They can be as loud and as foul mouthed as anyone. I know this because it's why I moved away from there a year after it opened.

Where in my original post did I comment on what Scottish OAPs look like or act or eat whilst watching Hibs?
Read twice before posting a reply is good advice.

I simply stated that many sit there and you agree with that point.

theonlywayisup
13-12-2016, 10:33 PM
Well I'm one of the 'precious princes' - OMG, why use such language when referring to fellow Hibees? It tells me everything I need to know about you.

At the recent Hibs games, I look around at my FFL supporters. I see many that have been there for over 10 years. The same guys and girls, the same banter. 'Precious Ponces' we may be but we've been there for a long long time through thick and thin.

I know that many will just say "**** it" if we are forced to move. So any attempt to get more atmosphere will fail because there will be many that will stop going or choose the games that they go to. But, hey ho, some people will be happy.

marinello59
14-12-2016, 09:03 AM
We know of a number of people (in their 100s) who would partake in a formalised area for singing/atmosphere, but aren't wanting the view at the front of the East.

In saying that, your point is valid and I am going to set up a SurveyMonkey in the near future to try capture this demand more formally.

A survey is s good start especially if the questions asked give answers that will provide alternative solutions. The Lower FF might be the top choice but returning to the back of Section 43 wouldn't be the worst case scenario.
The trouble with surveys and Facebook likes is getting that converted in to action. If 10% follow through it would be a decent result.
How about designating a match at ER as safe standing day and getting as many of us as possible to join you in your existing area? Publicise it on here and the Bounce, tell the club and even the press. I'd be up for that.

Keith_M
14-12-2016, 09:08 AM
No one is suggesting anyone would be forced. This isn't about people moving because they are unhappy where they sit. If they were, they can very easily relocate.

The suggestion is around the bigger picture of improving ER and lack of atmosphere currently being generated.


Surely, then, if they don't want to move then the whole thing is a non-starter.


:dunno:

marinello59
14-12-2016, 09:09 AM
Surely, then, if they don't want to move then the whole thing is a non-starter.


:dunno:

Not really. Alternatives could be considered.

Moulin Yarns
14-12-2016, 09:17 AM
Not really. Alternatives could be considered.

I would happily move my seat to the centre of the West stand, front couple of rows in the upper tier. Only problem would be asking Mr Petrie to shift along a bit :wink:

Renfrew_Hibby
14-12-2016, 09:18 AM
The NE corner should be a safe standing area with the ample space below utilised for any number of things, funs hub or community use or both.

Keith_M
14-12-2016, 09:19 AM
Somebody mentioned they know hundreds of people wiling to move to create a Singing Section.

Hibs play Dundee Utd on January 6th, and there are roughly 500 empty seats in sections 1 and 2 of the West Stand.


Surely the simplest thing to demonstrate the demand would be if those people decided to fill that area for this one game and sing their hearts out.


Whaddaya think?


:dunno:

Canon Hannan
14-12-2016, 01:39 PM
Somebody mentioned they know hundreds of people wiling to move to create a Singing Section.

Hibs next home game is against Dundee Utd, and there are roughly 500 empty seats in sections 1 and 2 of the West Stand.


Surely the simplest thing to demonstrate the demand would be if those people decided to fill that area for this one game and sing their hearts out.


Whaddaya think?


:dunno:
Great idea. If the club would allow existing season ticket holders to relocate for that one game? We need Hibs to help. Only need 1 or 200 crazies to get the fans going. 👍🙏

NAE NOOKIE
14-12-2016, 02:32 PM
Well I'm one of the 'precious princes' - OMG, why use such language when referring to fellow Hibees? It tells me everything I need to know about you.

At the recent Hibs games, I look around at my FFL supporters. I see many that have been there for over 10 years. The same guys and girls, the same banter. 'Precious Ponces' we may be but we've been there for a long long time through thick and thin.

I know that many will just say "**** it" if we are forced to move. So any attempt to get more atmosphere will fail because there will be many that will stop going or choose the games that they go to. But, hey ho, some people will be happy.

I've been an FF lower regular pretty well since the stand opened apart from a season in the new East to see what it was like, I moved back to the FF because my mates and their kids moved back for the cheaper prices and I prefer watching from behind the goals anyway.

I'm a big advocate of the FF becoming a standing area and that would certainly mean me relocating to the East if it happens because I don't want to stand for the whole game these days. The view from the East is very very good so it wouldn't be such a big deal to go back there ..... I cant believe that more than a tiny handful of fans would seriously think about not going back to ER or reducing the number of games they attend if the FF lower was made into a standing section, they cant be very committed fans if that's all it would take to stop them going.

For most people the attraction of the FF lower is the cheap kids prices, if that changes to a different part of the stadium they will move there to take advantage ... If you are an adult and are determined to watch from behind the goals get yourself a ticket for the FF upper, its the best view in the stadium IMO and when the kids we go with become too old to benefit from kids prices I'll be doing my best to persuade them that we should all move there.

Keith_M
15-12-2016, 10:59 AM
Somebody mentioned they know hundreds of people wiling to move to create a Singing Section.

Hibs play Dundee Utd on January 6th, and there are roughly 500 empty seats in sections 1 and 2 of the West Stand.


Surely the simplest thing to demonstrate the demand would be if those people decided to fill that area for this one game and sing their hearts out.


Whaddaya think?


:dunno:



:tumble:








Well I thought it was a good idea


:greengrin

Ilovehibs
15-12-2016, 12:58 PM
:tumble:






Well I thought it was a good idea


:greengrin

Its an excellent idea.

blackpoolhibs
15-12-2016, 01:28 PM
:tumble:








Well I thought it was a good idea


:greengrin
Its not a good idea, just as the folk who moan about the folk standing and the folk swearing or the folk behaving a wee bit out of order would do if they were transferred to the FF.

There is no easy answer, although i dont remember being consulted when the club put bench seating in the coo shed.

Keith_M
15-12-2016, 02:03 PM
Its not a good idea, just as the folk who moan about the folk standing and the folk swearing or the folk behaving a wee bit out of order would do if they were transferred to the FF.

There is no easy answer, although i dont remember being consulted when the club put bench seating in the coo shed.


I don't actually get your point, BH. Did you mean because there are already people in those sections?

:dunno:


The reason I picked those areas in particular was because they're almost empty, so would affect very few people.

Somebody else made a good suggestion that maybe the few people that do have STs in there could be relocated, if they wish, for just one game. There's lots of empty seats in the sections directly above, more than enough to accommodate them, or in the other end of the West Stand, if they have difficulty walking up the stairs.

The idea was to gauge whether there genuinely is a high enough level of interest in a Singing Section, instead of just turfing the 1,800 ST holders out of the FF Lower and hoping for the best.



Oh and as for the seats in the Coo Shed; that was 40 years ago. You really need to get over it ;-)

HappyAsHellas
15-12-2016, 02:13 PM
Would the people in the West be happy to have the section next to them standing for the whole game?
I'm with BH on putting the benches in the coo shed - Scottish football's first step to sucking atmosphere and fun out of football.

hibsbollah
15-12-2016, 03:13 PM
Its an excellent idea.

It is a good idea, I'd do that. Not sure why anyone could conceivably have a problem with it either :dunno:

houstonhibbee
15-12-2016, 04:01 PM
It is a good idea, I'd do that. Not sure why anyone could conceivably have a problem with it either :dunno:


i agree it's a really good idea - and I think we're all agreed something needs to be done?

If anyone sees that this may not be a good can they suggest an alternative rather than just ruling it out? Keep it positive.....

blackpoolhibs
15-12-2016, 04:11 PM
I don't actually get your point, BH. Did you mean because there are already people in those sections?

:dunno:


The reason I picked those areas in particular was because they're almost empty, so would affect very few people.

Somebody else made a good suggestion that maybe the few people that do have STs in there could be relocated, if they wish, for just one game. There's lots of empty seats in the sections directly above, more than enough to accommodate them, or in the other end of the West Stand, if they have difficulty walking up the stairs.

The idea was to gauge whether there genuinely is a high enough level of interest in a Singing Section, instead of just turfing the 1,800 ST holders out of the FF Lower and hoping for the best.



Oh and as for the seats in the Coo Shed; that was 40 years ago. You really need to get over it ;-)

There are very few empty spaces at the moment where someone or other would not be bothered by someone standing up, moaning, swearing or farting. There is only one place in the stadium where this could work, somewhere where likeminded folk knew what they were getting if they entered it.

1 game is not really good enough for me, i personally think this would grow and get bigger the longer we had it.

I'd go for it, and those who had to move would also have to get over it like i had to 40 years ago. :wink:

Dashing Bob S
15-12-2016, 04:43 PM
Most people's football journey (and this is very general, so please excuse the crass broad brush) is:

1. Go as kid with dad, with siblings, cousins, neighbourhood pals, uncles, other dad's etc.
2. Go with mates, have a bit of mischief. (This can range from mild to extreme, depending on disposition, associates and hormones, whether you got your leg over last night etc)
3. Go with own kids, with friend's kids etc.
4. Kids grow up and find you an embarrassing old mess, want to go with their own mates, so you get to hook up with your old pals again and have a drink or two. You are now older (and hopefully wiser) than in stage two.

The point is, that you probably want to be sitting in a different place for stages 1 and 3, than you do for 2 and 4. The numerous threads I've read on here over the years, indicates that this is very much the case. It's part of the changing customer experience, and in a stadium the size of Easter Road, naturally segregated into four different stands, there should be no problem in the club accomodating this. It's sensible, and it makes many people in the stadium happier about being there.

Yes, some people will be upset in the short-term about moving. I sat in the FF for years and I liked it and it suited my needs at the time, although I personally prefer being in the middle rather than behind the goals. But I'd rather be behind the goals in an atmospheric stadium, that along the middle in a morgue. And please, lets not rehash arguments about how we can get the East rocking. It's a cavernous barn, unsuited for that kind of action, unless in a derby or big European game. Let's agree we need a dedicated vocal support to start off, and their needs are best served in a smaller home end behind the goals.

C'mon Hibs, see sense and take this seriously. Your supporters will be happier, and the team encouraged by the subsequent livelier atmosphere and increased vocal backing.

ancient hibee
15-12-2016, 07:58 PM
Perhaps we could designate part of the ground "The Malky McKay Enclosure".

hibee316
17-12-2016, 08:39 AM
The back row in the end sections are right up by the wall, the back row in front of the windows is 1 row lower, so it is possible to see out of the windows, certainly to the far end, but I'm not sure about the near goal.

This photo looks like it is me at the right hand end, sitting beside the window, and there are 2 people sitting in the row in front (the same row that is the back row in front of the windows) Further left there are people standing near the back.

http://www.youngpars.co.uk/pictures/CIS_SEMI_250106A.jpg


This photo really shows why having a singing section in FF lower will never happen.

You can clearly see people standing blocks half of the window in the boxes.

When we get our games against hearts and the of again, no one will buy the boxes as they won't be able to see.

Do you think if you put all the rowdy fans in one place works if you then ask a few to sit down?

The club won't risk losing this huge income stream.

I'm fully aware that it is not the case now, but no one on here expects us to be in this division next year.


Great idea. But totally impractical.

Move on...

hibsbollah
17-12-2016, 08:49 AM
This photo really shows why having a singing section in FF lower will never happen.

You can clearly see people standing blocks half of the window in the boxes.

When we get our games against hearts and the of again, no one will buy the boxes as they won't be able to see.

Do you think if you put all the rowdy fans in one place works if you then ask a few to sit down?

The club won't risk losing this huge income stream.

I'm fully aware that it is not the case now, but no one on here expects us to be in this division next year.


Great idea. But totally impractical.

Move on...

It doesn't show that at all, looking at I'd guess that only the very back few rows would block the boxs view to any great extent. You'd have to actually be in the box to get an accurate idea. It's all in the detail.

Pretty Boy
17-12-2016, 09:01 AM
This photo really shows why having a singing section in FF lower will never happen.

You can clearly see people standing blocks half of the window in the boxes.

When we get our games against hearts and the of again, no one will buy the boxes as they won't be able to see.

Do you think if you put all the rowdy fans in one place works if you then ask a few to sit down?

The club won't risk losing this huge income stream.

I'm fully aware that it is not the case now, but no one on here expects us to be in this division next year.


Great idea. But totally impractical.

Move on...

You could close the top 5 or 6 rows in front of the boxes?

Moulin Yarns
17-12-2016, 09:06 AM
It doesn't show that at all, looking at I'd guess that only the very back few rows would block the boxs view to any great extent. You'd have to actually be in the box to get an accurate idea. It's all in the detail.

Back on page 2 of this thread we had this.


I was in one of the FF boxes a few weeks ago and the view is definately restricted if those at the back of the stand stand up.


My season ticket a few years ago was the seat in the back row right beside the window and I stood every game, but would never do so in front of the boxes if there were people in there because it would block their view.



This photo really shows why having a singing section in FF lower will never happen.

You can clearly see people standing blocks half of the window in the boxes.

When we get our games against hearts and the of again, no one will buy the boxes as they won't be able to see.

Do you think if you put all the rowdy fans in one place works if you then ask a few to sit down?

The club won't risk losing this huge income stream.

I'm fully aware that it is not the case now, but no one on here expects us to be in this division next year.


Great idea. But totally impractical.

Move on...

Canon Hannan
17-12-2016, 09:09 AM
This photo really shows why having a singing section in FF lower will never happen.

You can clearly see people standing blocks half of the window in the boxes.

When we get our games against hearts and the of again, no one will buy the boxes as they won't be able to see.

Do you think if you put all the rowdy fans in one place works if you then ask a few to sit down?

The club won't risk losing this huge income stream.

I'm fully aware that it is not the case now, but no one on here expects us to be in this division next year.


Great idea. But totally impractical.

Move on...

However there are no hospitality windows in the FF Lower East section. There is your Crazies/Ultras section for 500.

Moulin Yarns
17-12-2016, 09:13 AM
However there are no hospitality windows in the FF Lower East section. There is your Crazies/Ultras section for 500.

Which I already highlighted, but if the aim of those wanting to move is to increase the amount of those singing then it would impact on the boxes at some point, assuming it works.

Canon Hannan
17-12-2016, 09:20 AM
Which I already highlighted, but if the aim of those wanting to move is to increase the amount of those singing then it would impact on the boxes at some point, assuming it works.

There is always a way. Close off the back 3 or 4 rows.

It is worth the hassle. Look a my other team who have the same support as us https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A7x9UkmsAlVYulkA4Md3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBs YWhiN2NvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--?p=ogc+nice+ultras&hspart=iry&hsimp=yhs-fullyhosted_003#action=view&id=7&vid=720824397a065e10e9ef6f928f077c6e

Moulin Yarns
17-12-2016, 09:40 AM
There is always a way. Close off the back 3 or 4 rows.

It is worth the hassle. Look a my other team who have the same support as us https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A7x9UkmsAlVYulkA4Md3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBs YWhiN2NvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--?p=ogc+nice+ultras&hspart=iry&hsimp=yhs-fullyhosted_003#action=view&id=7&vid=720824397a065e10e9ef6f928f077c6e


Good display, but is the game going on at that time? Having said that it does show a possible answer. Section 25 or Section 10 could be the starting point. :greengrin

Canon Hannan
17-12-2016, 09:42 AM
Good display, but is the game going on at that time? Having said that it does show a possible answer. Section 25 or Section 10 could be the starting point. :greengrin

Yes Golden - in France the Ultras sing for 90 minutes solid no matter the score.

Since90+2
17-12-2016, 09:42 AM
You would only have to take out 2 or 3 rows and the boxes could still be used in the FF.

Moulin Yarns
17-12-2016, 10:16 AM
You would only have to take out 2 or 3 rows and the boxes could still be used in the FF.

OK, reduce the capacity by about 250 seats in the back 3 rows of the lower Famous Five stand, to allow some people to stand behind the goals.


Or put those that want to stand behind those that want to sit. I know which makes more sense to me. I prefer to stand, and try to get a seat at the back so I am not blocking anyone elses view. If I have a seat with people behind me then I will sit. It is simply being considerate. The most logical section in the Famous Five if the singers want to move is section 25.

jgl07
18-12-2016, 11:07 AM
Moving the singing section to the FF South is a daft idea and is never going to happen.

Firstly all bar 36 seats in the FF Lower are sold as season tickets. That's the best part of 2,000 people who are going to be pissed off if they are relocated elsewhere. People are very territorial about where in the ground they sit (or stand).

For the same reason many who current occupy Blocks 42 and 43, also virtually sold out by season tickets, will be reluctant to move. That would effectively split the singing section.

Any introduction of a standing enclosure will have to wait until the support grows sufficiently to justify either taking over half the South Stand for home support or filling in the North-East Corner.

Until that comes about, make the best of the current arrangments.

NAE NOOKIE
18-12-2016, 02:57 PM
This photo really shows why having a singing section in FF lower will never happen.

You can clearly see people standing blocks half of the window in the boxes.

When we get our games against hearts and the of again, no one will buy the boxes as they won't be able to see.

Do you think if you put all the rowdy fans in one place works if you then ask a few to sit down?

The club won't risk losing this huge income stream.

I'm fully aware that it is not the case now, but no one on here expects us to be in this division next year.


Great idea. But totally impractical.

Move on...

Huge income stream? For the most part the boxes appear to be pretty sparsely used unless its a big game and that applied to the premier league as well, I doubt the money they generate is in any way significant . In addition Hibs don't appear to have released plans as to what parts of the FF are going to be turned over to the initiative with the NHS etc, for all we know these boxes might end up being doctors or nurses offices.

I genuinely think a standing area in the FF lower would in time transform the atmosphere at Easter Road and I do not in the least share the pessimism of those who say that it would only be to the benefit of the few hundred hardy souls who currently make up section 43. IMO a dedicated area for those fans would without doubt attract like minded individuals who at the moment cant be bothered with the rigmarole that seems to surround wanting to watch the game in sect 43 and it would grow far bigger pretty quickly, especially if season tickets were sold for the FF lower but without seats allocated to them giving folk a far greater chance of being able to stand with their mates.

Back in the day I suppose the folk who owned and ran Hibs thought it would be totally impractical to put a roof over the massive east terrace ..... just imagine what an absolutely fantastic atmosphere ER would have had if they had had the vision and determination to do it, ye gods it would have been incredible.

Folk talk a lot about money and inconvenience when it comes to this subject ..... you can talk all you like about great infrastructure, modern facilities and the like which Hibs have invested in heavily in the last 25 years, but if you ask me no matter how much money you spend on making a stadium modern and pretty you have failed, at least in part, to invest that money wisely if the stadium still lacks atmosphere on a Saturday.

Look at it this way ..... Hibs are currently working really really hard to make the fullest use of the facilities they have built to benefit the community and by association the club, having stated publicly that these assets were being wasted sitting unused for huge parts of the year, they clearly recognised that what the club had at its disposal wasn't being utilised properly and that was a failing the club needed to address.

Yet the biggest asset the club has that can actually help the team on the field is the supporters, they can be a real driving force for the players, so much so that only a few months ago the clubs manager made a statement bemoaning the lack of atmosphere, its clearly important enough to him that he was prepared to risk the ire of the fans by ( no matter how you sugar coat it ) criticising our performance.
Given the correlation that players and managers clearly see between a good atmosphere and the team performing better I really cant understand why Hibs, or any other club for that matter, would not at least give serious consideration to any proposal which would lift the atmosphere at matches and make full use of us as an asset to help the team ..... we spent 5 million quid on a training centre which since it was opened doesn't appear to have made a great deal of difference to the quality of our team, surely then its worth spending a tiny amount in comparison in an attempt to generate a better atmosphere which may well benefit the team on the park.

CallumHibs07
18-12-2016, 03:26 PM
Moving the singing section to the FF South is a daft idea and is never going to happen.

Firstly all bar 36 seats in the FF Lower are sold as season tickets. That's the best part of 2,000 people who are going to be pissed off if they are relocated elsewhere. People are very territorial about where in the ground they sit (or stand).

For the same reason many who current occupy Blocks 42 and 43, also virtually sold out by season tickets, will be reluctant to move. That would effectively split the singing section.

Any introduction of a standing enclosure will have to wait until the support grows sufficiently to justify either taking over half the South Stand for home support or filling in the North-East Corner.

Until that comes about, make the best of the current arrangments.

So we shouldn't attempt to improve the atmosphere in case it upsets a few people, load of rubbish. The atmosphere is dreadful and the FF lower is the perfect place to put fans who want to sing, I'd look forward to going to games much more if it was to happen.

Dashing Bob S
18-12-2016, 03:36 PM
Moving the singing section to the FF South is a daft idea and is never going to happen.

Firstly all bar 36 seats in the FF Lower are sold as season tickets. That's the best part of 2,000 people who are going to be pissed off if they are relocated elsewhere. People are very territorial about where in the ground they sit (or stand).

For the same reason many who current occupy Blocks 42 and 43, also virtually sold out by season tickets, will be reluctant to move. That would effectively split the singing section.

Any introduction of a standing enclosure will have to wait until the support grows sufficiently to justify either taking over half the South Stand for home support or filling in the North-East Corner.

Until that comes about, make the best of the current arrangments.

If it's a daft idea to have a singing section in the FF lower because people will have to move from their preferred seats, then presumably you think it was silly to build the FF stand in the first place as people had to move from their chosen spots in the old seated enclosure.

We have to be continually looking at ways to improve as a club, and part of this is about addressing the woeful atmosphere at ER.

jgl07
18-12-2016, 03:52 PM
So we shouldn't attempt to improve the atmosphere in case it upsets a few people, load of rubbish. The atmosphere is dreadful and the FF lower is the perfect place to put fans who want to sing, I'd look forward to going to games much more if it was to happen.
I was saying that it wouldn't improve the atmosphere and could make things worse.

What improvement would result from pissing off 2,000 season ticket holders?

Fizz
18-12-2016, 03:53 PM
The atmosphere is rank because of what's on display on the park - no problem with noise when we play for example Falkirk when there's always a bit controversy to get everyone going. A quick "google" shows the discussion regarding a safe standing area has been ongoing on Hibs Net since 2011 so 5 years and no further forward and I'm also sure there was a huge discussion when the new East Stand was built with requests put in to Hibs to ask for part of it to be standing and the answer was no. I would be interested to know where people think Hibs are going to relocate 1800 fans in the other 2 stands - do you just get a letter through the door saying " as your seats were in FF Lower Row ....... you are now seated in the East Stand and your allocated seats are ................" when I got my first season ticket Hibs let you go in to the stadium and sit in all the ones you fancied to see which one was best before you paid - all before Internet and online stuff of course.

hibsbollah
18-12-2016, 04:12 PM
The atmosphere is rank because of what's on display on the park - no problem with noise when we play for example Falkirk when there's always a bit controversy to get everyone going. A quick "google" shows the discussion regarding a safe standing area has been ongoing on Hibs Net since 2011 so 5 years and no further forward and I'm also sure there was a huge discussion when the new East Stand was built with requests put in to Hibs to ask for part of it to be standing and the answer was no. I would be interested to know where people think Hibs are going to relocate 1800 fans in the other 2 stands - do you just get a letter through the door saying " as your seats were in FF Lower Row ....... you are now seated in the East Stand and your allocated seats are ................" when I got my first season ticket Hibs let you go in to the stadium and sit in all the ones you fancied to see which one was best before you paid - all before Internet and online stuff of course.

Yes that's exactly what I'd expect them to do. It's not a basic human right for every punter to sit exactly where he wants in a football stadium.

Dashing Bob S
18-12-2016, 04:23 PM
Yes that's exactly what I'd expect them to do. It's not a basic human right for every punter to sit exactly where he wants in a football stadium.

Nobody would need to be asked to move.

Or even asked to sing or wave a banner, scarf etc.

They would just be asked to be tolerant of other people doing this.

If they felt, for whatever reason, this was beyond them, then they'd be given the option to relocate.

CallumHibs07
18-12-2016, 04:52 PM
I was saying that it wouldn't improve the atmosphere and could make things worse.

What improvement would result from pissing off 2,000 season ticket holders?

The people in the FF lower create no atmosphere so it couldn't make it worse. An FF lower packed with singing fans would be a massive improvement. It works for many other clubs who have their vocal fans behind the goal.

Fizz
18-12-2016, 04:59 PM
The FF Lower is not sparsely populated though - if there was only 100 people there I'm sure something could be sorted with them. When you buy a season ticket you're buying a very specific product though you're not paying for general entry to a stand then sit where you want - not unlike buying a ticket for a show/ concert where you pick the seat you feel suits you best. I'm not against the idea as I found myself accidentally a few rows behind the singers at THE cup final and they made the whole day even more special than it already was their contribution was immeasurable really. Whilst in the championship the best place would have been in the South Stand nearest the East but that wouldn't work when we get promoted and I think assuming we do we'll sell even more season tickets next year leaving even less empty space for large groups.

NAE NOOKIE
18-12-2016, 05:44 PM
I was saying that it wouldn't improve the atmosphere and could make things worse.

What improvement would result from pissing off 2,000 season ticket holders?

How can you say it wouldn't improve the atmosphere? .... the only thing currently available to measure this against is the noise 3 or 4 hundred away fans can generate in the lower south compared to the few hundred in section 43 in the east. Its generally accepted that away fans tend to be more 'up for it' but even so a few hundred singing in the south comes across far clearer ( not to mention being far more visible ) from where I currently sit in the FF than our singing section do, lost as they are down the front of the east.
Just from that point of view a new position for the singing section in the FF lower would make a huge difference, both in the noise they could generate and their presence as a focal point for the rest of the stadium to engage with.

That's not cast iron evidence that it would work I agree, but it is a theory which I think is not unreasonable based on decades of watching football at Easter Road ..... what is your theory or hard evidence that conclusively proves it wouldn't work so far as atmosphere is concerned that makes you so certain?

As for 'pissing off 2,000 season ticket holders' that is clearly a massive overstating of the case which is often bandied about on here. For a kick off at least half of that 2,000 are kids under the age of 16, mum and dad pay for their season tickets and they will go where mum and dad go in the stadium.
Secondly of the half that are adults I'm willing to bet a sizeable chunk of them would prefer to watch from the east anyway and only go to the FF because that's where the cheaper family tickets are, if the cheaper family section was changed to the east I'm willing to bet a lot of them would happily move.
Finally you have folk like me who even though I've pretty well always watched from the FF lower and prefer to sit behind the goals would still be prepared to move if it was to help the club in an attempt to improve the atmosphere.
Exactly how many folk does that leave who will want to jump off the Forth Road bridge if this comes to pass.

hibsbollah
18-12-2016, 05:48 PM
Nobody would need to be asked to move.

Or even asked to sing or wave a banner, scarf etc.

They would just be asked to be tolerant of other people doing this.

If they felt, for whatever reason, this was beyond them, then they'd be given the option to relocate.

That would possibly be the diplomatic way to do it.

The fact remains that no one has a divine right to sit in a particular seat. its not your seat, you're participating in a collective event.

northstandhibby
18-12-2016, 06:07 PM
The people in the FF lower create no atmosphere so it couldn't make it worse. An FF lower packed with singing fans would be a massive improvement. It works for many other clubs who have their vocal fans behind the goal.

Agree.

Section 43 was a great idea at the time but a move to turn the FF into a dedicated atmospheric stand would be a fantastic improvement on that.

Who knows it may even motivate us in the West to join in more often.

Brilliant idea!!!

Get it done Rod and Leanne please.

Glory Glory

jgl07
18-12-2016, 06:28 PM
Nobody would need to be asked to move.

Or even asked to sing or wave a banner, scarf etc.

They would just be asked to be tolerant of other people doing this.

If they felt, for whatever reason, this was beyond them, then they'd be given the option to relocate.
Well how will you create the space for the 'singing section' to move into the FF Lower as all bar a handful are already sold and presumably most will renew. Even if there was space, the two groups simply do not mix.

At the London Stadium there were fights between West Ham supporters because people were standing in front of those with children who wouldn't be able to see a thing.

If you come up with half baked ideas like this, don't be surprised if the club officials smile and you and take no notice whatsoever.

Canon Hannan
18-12-2016, 06:40 PM
How can you say it wouldn't improve the atmosphere? .... the only thing currently available to measure this against is the noise 3 or 4 hundred away fans can generate in the lower south compared to the few hundred in section 43 in the east. Its generally accepted that away fans tend to be more 'up for it' but even so a few hundred singing in the south comes across far clearer ( not to mention being far more visible ) from where I currently sit in the FF than our singing section do, lost as they are down the front of the east.
Just from that point of view a new position for the singing section in the FF lower would make a huge difference, both in the noise they could generate and their presence as a focal point for the rest of the stadium to engage with.

That's not cast iron evidence that it would work I agree, but it is a theory which I think is not unreasonable based on decades of watching football at Easter Road ..... what is your theory or hard evidence that conclusively proves it wouldn't work so far as atmosphere is concerned that makes you so certain?

As for 'pissing off 2,000 season ticket holders' that is clearly a massive overstating of the case which is often bandied about on here. For a kick off at least half of that 2,000 are kids under the age of 16, mum and dad pay for their season tickets and they will go where mum and dad go in the stadium.
Secondly of the half that are adults I'm willing to bet a sizeable chunk of them would prefer to watch from the east anyway and only go to the FF because that's where the cheaper family tickets are, if the cheaper family section was changed to the east I'm willing to bet a lot of them would happily move.
Finally you have folk like me who even though I've pretty well always watched from the FF lower and prefer to sit behind the goals would still be prepared to move if it was to help the club in an attempt to improve the atmosphere.
Exactly how many folk does that leave who will want to jump off the Forth Road bridge if this comes to pass.
Fantastic post.
The French team I support dedicate behind the goals to the Ultras and the atmosphere is fantastic. Hibs only need to section 500 seats and build this year on year. Everyone will want to be near this and they will make ER a fantastic place to come. We do need the club to work with us though.

CallumHibs07
18-12-2016, 06:41 PM
Well how will you create the space for the 'singing section' to move into the FF Lower as all bar a handful are already sold and presumably most will renew. Even if there was space, the two groups simply do not mix.

At the London Stadium there were fights between West Ham supporters because people were standing in front of those with children who wouldn't be able to see a thing.

If you come up with half baked ideas like this, don't be surprised if the club officials smile and you and take no notice whatsoever.

It's not difficult, the FF lower is a family section with the cheapest ST prices in the stadium. Make the West or East the cheapest and people will move. Implement the singing section for the start of next season.

marinello59
18-12-2016, 07:16 PM
It's not difficult, the FF lower is a family section with the cheapest ST prices in the stadium. Make the West or East the cheapest and people will move. Implement the singing section for the start of next season.

Or the singing section could pack the existing area out and demonstrate to the club that they simply can't ignore the demand. It's up to US to make this happen, not the club.

Swedish hibee
18-12-2016, 07:28 PM
Last night could've been ideal to get started as Hibs fans were behind the goal & standing too. Or is it only at ER you want to do this? It would've been nice to see what you wish to create.

Dashing Bob S
18-12-2016, 08:52 PM
That would possibly be the diplomatic way to do it.

The fact remains that no one has a divine right to sit in a particular seat. its not your seat, you're participating in a collective event.

I understand people get territorial. Doesn't bother me personally, i've had ST's in FF, East and West over the years. Ultimately though, we all want to sit in a ground with an atmosphere, rather than a morgue. This benefits everyone in the long run, and the club should be taking responsibility for developing it.

hibsbollah
18-12-2016, 10:23 PM
I understand people get territorial. Doesn't bother me personally, i've had ST's in FF, East and West over the years. Ultimately though, we all want to sit in a ground with an atmosphere, rather than a morgue. This benefits everyone in the long run, and the club should be taking responsibility for developing it.

I agree. But if they show no enthusiasm for doing so, I tend to agree with marinello as well that its time for the fans to make a move. I'd be happy to be involved if 10 year old boys are also welcome, he's good at being radge:greengrin

Dashing Bob S
19-12-2016, 12:51 AM
Well how will you create the space for the 'singing section' to move into the FF Lower as all bar a handful are already sold and presumably most will renew. Even if there was space, the two groups simply do not mix.

At the London Stadium there were fights between West Ham supporters because people were standing in front of those with children who wouldn't be able to see a thing.

If you come up with half baked ideas like this, don't be surprised if the club officials smile and you and take no notice whatsoever.

Right, the kid gloves are coming off. I have to inform you that you have been assigned for relocation to the strip of the East nearest the away fans. This has been designated a quasi-automous former FF territory. Failure to comply with this instruction will result in your pies being fed to the seagulls and your lager in the Behind The Goals bar being even further watered down.

I tried reason, but you refused to compromise. Your people in the FF have brought this on themselves by attempting to thwart my ambitions for a 1000 year all-singing, dancing Hibernian 4th reich.

hibsbollah
19-12-2016, 08:18 AM
Right, the kid gloves are coming off. I have to inform you that you have been assigned for relocation to the strip of the East nearest the away fans. This has been designated a quasi-automous former FF territory. Failure to comply with this instruction will result in your pies being fed to the seagulls and your lager in the Behind The Goals bar being even further watered down.

I tried reason, but you refused to compromise. Your people in the FF have brought this on themselves by attempting to thwart my ambitions for a 1000 year all-singing, dancing Hibernian 4th reich.

...you also tried to ban Christmas.

Keith_M
19-12-2016, 03:01 PM
I see the same people are still demanding that the FF Lower ST holders, some of whom have had tickets in there since the stand was built, be forcibly moved to accommodate a theoretical group who've yet to prove their existence, let alone their numbers.


Nice plan, well thought out and I don't see how the club can possibly turn it down.

Juice-Terry
19-12-2016, 03:40 PM
I see the same people are still demanding that the FF Lower ST holders, some of whom have had tickets in there since the stand was built, be forcibly moved to accommodate a theoretical group who've yet to prove their existence, let alone their numbers.


Nice plan, well thought out and I don't see how the club can possibly turn it down.

Clearly the FF Lower would be the best place for a singing section. Why wouldn't any reasonable person currently in that secton realise this and move to a newly created family section somewhere else in the ground? Refusal to move in the face of these fairly obvious facts is nothing short of putting oneself and/or one's child above the best interest of the club - because it is the best interest of the club to have signing section in the FF Lower. GGTTH!

Smartie
19-12-2016, 03:53 PM
Whilst we have near record-breaking season ticket sales levels there won't be much impetus for the club to do anything.

If our sales drop a few thousand, they might start to ask why. If one of the answers is "the match day experience isn't good enough because of x, y, or z" then they'll soon start listening to ideas.

I don't see it happening for a while though. Which is a shame, as I do think we have a problem. Having a mix of everyone in every stand doesn't really work. I felt a bit for the "radges" who came on here apologising for their conduct the other week when it seemed to me that all they'd done wrong was to have a few lunchtime sherbets and get a bit mouthy at the football. Nobody who is offended by that should be subjected to it but at the same time we should have a place where that can be accommodated. Our ground easily allows for it.

I don't think it is a fanciful notion but it won't happen any time soon.

Moulin Yarns
19-12-2016, 04:04 PM
Just looking at the Home game against Ayr, 4 February, there is a section with just under 200 seats, all except 8 are available.

IF the singing section want to take over a whole section to see if it could coordinate a singing/standing section then would it not make sense to approach the club to see if it were possible to be accommodated there from the Ayr game until the rest of the season.

It is Section 1 in the West Lower, and Section 2 is also a section where the majority of seats are available, 64 seats are taken, but this would allow a trial to the end of the season with minimal disruption to existing season tickets. Those season tickets could hopefully be accommodated in the upper tier in section 11.

Well, worth a punt for those that think it isn't working at the front of the East.

Keith_M
19-12-2016, 04:08 PM
Clearly the FF Lower would be the best place for a singing section. Why wouldn't any reasonable person currently in that secton realise this and move to a newly created family section somewhere else in the ground? Refusal to move in the face of these fairly obvious facts is nothing short of putting oneself and/or one's child above the best interest of the club - because it is the best interest of the club to have signing section in the FF Lower. GGTTH!


Hi Terry, the FF Lower probably would be ideal for a Singing Section, but that's not really my issue.

The problem is that creating it will inconvenience a lot of people, so you have to be on really solid ground when making an argument.

I probably put my point over badly, by applying my usual sarcasm, but if anybody really wants to shift 1,800 ST holders, and possibly those with executive boxes as well, then they should first concentrate on proving there is a genuine demand for the Singing Section, with equally high numbers.

The only way to prove it is to either pick a part of the Stadium currently reasonably empty, or ask the club for permission to use part of the South Stand, then demonstrate the noise and numbers.


Surely that's going to be a lot more effective in convincing the club than a handful of people coming on here every week demanding it to happen?

:dunno:

GreenCastle
19-12-2016, 04:09 PM
The FF this season is much fuller than previous years and great to see more people coming back to watch games - especially kids of the future and families.

I said a few years ago they should moved family section to lower West Stand.

Hibs could easily change the middle 2 sections to save standing behind the goals as a trial - as long as views weren't restricted by the blocks next to it and the boxes for hospitality etc.

But the chance to do it I think is hard now as you will have to move a good few thousand people.

You could try it in the South Lower behind the goals - so we have all 4 sides of the stadium with Hibs fans. The issue with this is the away fans - stick them in upper far blocks and let Hibs fans enter via East Stand entrances.

Though club probably wouldn't want to pay extra costs for segregation. Though add in some flags covering the empty side seats sections (like they do in South Upper) and have the fans directly behind goal and it would be a good start.

Maybe Hibs like away fans getting a good view from lower tier ? Fed up seeing away fans celebrating down at front of the stand if they score - stick them up back and limit their support to the away team.

Moulin Yarns
19-12-2016, 04:09 PM
Hi Terry, the FF Lower probably would be ideal for a Singing Section, but that's not really my issue.

The problem is that creating it will inconvenience a lot of people, so you have to be on really solid ground when making an argument.

I probably put my point over badly, by applying my usual sarcasm, but if anybody really wants to shift 1,800 ST holders, and possibly those with executive boxes as well, then they should first concentrate on proving there is a genuine demand for the Singing section, with equally high numbers.

The only way to prove it is to either pick a part of the Stadium currently reasonably empty, or ask the club for permission to use part of the South Stand, then demonstrate the noise and numbers.


Surely that's going to be a lot more effective in convincing the club than a handful of people coming on here every week demanding it to happen?

:dunno:

You were obviously typing at the same time as me.



Just looking at the Home game against Ayr, 4 February, there is a section with just under 200 seats, all except 8 are available.

IF the singing section want to take over a whole section to see if it could coordinate a singing/standing section then would it not make sense to approach the club to see if it were possible to be accommodated there from the Ayr game until the rest of the season.

It is Section 1 in the West Lower, and Section 2 is also a section where the majority of seats are available, 64 seats are taken, but this would allow a trial to the end of the season with minimal disruption to existing season tickets. Those season tickets could hopefully be accommodated in the upper tier in section 11.

Well, worth a punt for those that think it isn't working at the front of the East.