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Scouse Hibee
11-12-2016, 05:34 PM
When Gray went down after another foul on him,he recieved treatment on the pitch yet he just got up and continued without first leaving the pitch.Why was that allowed?

calumhibee1
11-12-2016, 05:36 PM
When Gray went down after another foul on him,he recieved treatment on the pitch yet he just got up and continued without first leaving the pitch.Why was that allowed?

Something along the lines of if you receive treatment for a foul in which the offending player has been booked then you don't need to go off.

hibee
11-12-2016, 05:39 PM
New rule introduced that if the player gets a red or yellow card you're not also punished by having the injured player going off, very sensible rule for a change.


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Scouse Hibee
11-12-2016, 05:40 PM
Something along the lines of if you receive treatment for a foul in which the offending player has been booked then you don't need to go off.

Okay cheers I didn't know that.

Tom Hart RIP
11-12-2016, 05:58 PM
Okay cheers I didn't know that.

Neither did one of the refs earlier this season when he made a Hibs player go off (fyvie??) after booking one of their players.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 06:01 PM
There was an interesting one yesterday when their forward ran back into his own half from an offside position to receive the ball. We could and should have taken the free kick quickly from the Dumbarton half but fannied around and took it 30 seconds later from our own half. I don't think the players have got a great handle on some of the new rules.

May2116
11-12-2016, 07:01 PM
There was an interesting one yesterday when their forward ran back into his own half from an offside position to receive the ball. We could and should have taken the free kick quickly from the Dumbarton half but fannied around and took it 30 seconds later from our own half. I don't think the players have got a great handle on some of the new rules.

Of course it can't be taken from the oppositions half; the rule is you take it from where the foul is committed, eg the position the striker was in when the ball was played, where in previous years it would be from where the defensive line was situated.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 07:13 PM
Of course it has to be taken from the oppositions half; the rule is you take it from where the foul is committed, eg the position the striker was in when the ball was played, where in previous years it would be from where the defensive line was situated.
I know but the players don't seem to realise and lost an advantage because of it.

May2116
11-12-2016, 07:15 PM
I know but the players don't seem to realise and lost an advantage because of it.

You wanted them to take the free kick from the Dumbarton half, which is against the rules, then moan at them for not knowing the rules? They quite clearly followed the rules.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 07:30 PM
You wanted them to take the free kick from the Dumbarton half, which is against the rules, then moan at them for not knowing the rules? They quite clearly followed the rules.

The FA rules of the game would disagree with you. Hope you aren't passing that on to the Hibs players

Q3: The Law now says that the IDFK for offside can be taken in the player’s own half but how can this be correct?
It is correct because:


a player CAN NOT be in an offside POSITION in their own half
a player CAN commit an offside OFFENCE in their own half if they go back into their own half from an offside position

May2116
11-12-2016, 07:44 PM
The FA rules of the game would disagree with you. Hope you aren't passing that on to the Hibs players

Q3: The Law now says that the IDFK for offside can be taken in the player’s own half but how can this be correct?
It is correct because:


a player CAN NOT be in an offside POSITION in their own half
a player CAN commit an offside OFFENCE in their own half if they go back into their own half from an offside position





The foul is committed as soon as the ball is kicked, as long as he player is active, so when the ball is kicked his position is in the opposition half, which is where the foul would be given.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 07:53 PM
The foul is committed as soon as the ball is kicked, as long as he player is active, so when the ball is kicked his position is in the opposition half, which is where the foul would be given.

I read the rules differently. There is one thing that is explicit and that is you can take an indirect free kick in the oppositions half when they have been offside in your half. From my reading the player who is offside when they become active and if that happens in their own half that is where the free kick should be taken. I have only seen it enacted once and that was in the last Euros but from memory we could have done it yesterday.

Q3: The Law now says that the IDFK for offside can be taken in the player’s own half but how can this be correct?
It is correct because:



a player CAN commit an offside OFFENCE in their own half if they go back into their own half from an offside position

May2116
11-12-2016, 07:55 PM
I read the rules differently. There is one thing that is explicit and that is you can take an indirect free kick in the oppositions half when they have been offside in your half. From my reading the player who is offside when they become active and if that happens in their own half that is where the free kick should be taken. I have only seen it enacted once and that was in the last Euros but from memory we could have done it yesterday.

Q3: The Law now says that the IDFK for offside can be taken in the player’s own half but how can this be correct?
It is correct because:



a player CAN commit an offside OFFENCE in their own half if they go back into their own half from an offside position


I'm reading it straight from the FIFA laws of the game, your extract seems to be someone's take on the rules.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 07:58 PM
I'm reading it straight from the FIFA laws of the game, your extract seems to be someone's take on the rules. The rule came in from this summer. What date is your FIFA rules for the game. My extract is from the FA site

May2116
11-12-2016, 08:04 PM
The rule came in from this summer. What date is your FIFA rules for the game. My extract is from the FA site

I get that, and it's the latest ones I'm reading, however one thing is love to know is, you cannot be offside in your own half, the offside offence occurs as soon as the ball is played, yet you can get a foul in your own half?? That would make zero sense.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 08:09 PM
Are you sure. Here is the link to the rules directly on the FIFA site.

http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/79/92/44/laws.of.the.game.2016.2017_neutral.pdf

Look at point 11.5 position of free kick.

The offside does not occur when the ball is played it is when the offside man becomes active including when that is in his own half. That is why we all get pissed off with refs and linesman blowing late because the offside man has now ran towards the ball

ancient hibee
11-12-2016, 08:11 PM
Presumably the offence is now committed when the player interferes with play?

wookie70
11-12-2016, 08:12 PM
When he becomes active,

malcolm
11-12-2016, 08:12 PM
I get that, and it's the latest ones I'm reading, however one thing is love to know is, you cannot be offside in your own half, the offside offence occurs as soon as the ball is played, yet you can get a foul in your own half?? That would make zero sense.

It makes as much sense as the linesman not flagging until well after the whole ground knows its offside which is well meaning but most often badly applied in practice.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 08:14 PM
It makes as much sense as the linesman not flagging until well after the whole ground knows its offside which is well meaning but most often badly applied in practice.

The offence only takes place when the player becomes active not when the ball is played to him in an offside position. The linesman and referees are only going by the rules, however frustrating that may be. They seem to draw a line though when it is in the other half and that was my original point

JimBHibees
11-12-2016, 08:15 PM
I get that, and it's the latest ones I'm reading, however one thing is love to know is, you cannot be offside in your own half, the offside offence occurs as soon as the ball is played, yet you can get a foul in your own half?? That would make zero sense.

If he then goes into his own half and plays the ball the foul is where he played it. New rule.

May2116
11-12-2016, 08:34 PM
The offence only takes place when the player becomes active not when the ball is played to him in an offside position. The linesman and referees are only going by the rules, however frustrating that may be. They seem to draw a line though when it is in the other half and that was my original point

The 'offence' is when the ball is played... the offence is not given until he interferes however.

JimBHibees
11-12-2016, 08:38 PM
The 'offence' is when the ball is played... the offence is not given until he interferes however.

Which could be in his own half.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 08:41 PM
He is offside when the ball is played but the offence takes place when he becomes active. You can be in an offside position without an offence being committed. The offence is when you become active and that can happen in your own half. Again below is directly from this year's FIFA rule book

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by… and

If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player’s own half of the field of play.

May2116
11-12-2016, 08:42 PM
Which could be in his own half.

He can't be in his own half when the ball is played or he wouldn't be offside... so at the time of the 'offence' he is in the opposition half, which is why the rule states 'where the offence occurs'... suppose it's ambiguous however I would take the offence as being when the ball is kicked, 'it when the referee decides to blow as that could be 10 seconds later after trying to play advantage and the free kick could end up miles up the pitch.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 08:48 PM
He can't be in his own half when the ball is played or he wouldn't be offside... so at the time of the 'offence' he is in the opposition half, which is why the rule states 'where the offence occurs'... suppose it's ambiguous however I would take the offence as being when the ball is kicked, 'it when the referee decides to blow as that could be 10 seconds later after trying to play advantage and the free kick could end up miles up the pitch.

No ambiguity from what I read. The offence occurs when he becomes active, the offside is when the ball is played. Again from the current rules from FIFA. I think I am fighting a losing battle.

Clarifies that it is the player’s (offside) position which is judged when the ball is played. The offence occurs after the ball is played e.g. an offside player who scores after a save by the goalkeeper commits the offence after the ball was played.

JimBHibees
11-12-2016, 08:53 PM
He can't be in his own half when the ball is played or he wouldn't be offside... so at the time of the 'offence' he is in the opposition half, which is why the rule states 'where the offence occurs'... suppose it's ambiguous however I would take the offence as being when the ball is kicked, 'it when the referee decides to blow as that could be 10 seconds later after trying to play advantage and the free kick could end up miles up the pitch.

He can't be offside in his own half but becomes active in own half if tries to or plays the ball hence free kick is on own half.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 08:54 PM
He can't be offside in his own half but becomes active in own half if tries to or plays the ball hence free kick is on own half.

Cheers Jim I was beginning to think I was going mad

May2116
11-12-2016, 08:57 PM
Cheers Jim I was beginning to think I was going mad

Not at all, however it is mad that you can now get an offside indirect free kick 30/35 yards from goal.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 09:01 PM
Not at all, however it is mad that you can now get an offside indirect free kick 30/35 yards from goal.
I don't disagree with that but thems the rules.
I liked the old offside rules for the 70s. I see a player as being active by being on the field of play.

May2116
11-12-2016, 09:05 PM
I don't disagree with that but thems the rules.
I liked the old offside rules for the 70s. I see a player as being active by being on the field of play.

I don't, I do however think there are too many permutations, but you shouldn't be offside when 50 yards away on the far side and nowhere near the game. I didn't think there was anything wrong with free kicks being taken from where the defensive line was situated, as you could have the line on the half way line, the man offside in your box and you have to take the free kick from your own box, very strange change and one that doesn't seem to have any substance behind it, unlike the triple punishment change.

wookie70
11-12-2016, 09:10 PM
I don't, I do however think there are too many permutations, but you shouldn't be offside when 50 yards away on the far side and nowhere near the game. I didn't think there was anything wrong with free kicks being taken from where the defensive line was situated, as you could have the line on the half way line, the man offside in your box and you have to take the free kick from your own box, very strange change and one that doesn't seem to have any substance behind it, unlike the triple punishment change.

I would argue there is probably a defender taking his position from your position so you do effect the game even though it is marginal. Can't say I'm a fan of the new rule either but it is there.