This should soon reverse the 17% poll deficit

[Hibbyradge]

Brexit, blah blah, Aleppo, blah blah, the economy, blah blah.

Ignore all those irrelevancies.

This'll get us elected.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/petrol-car-ban-jeremy-corbyn-labour-proposal-air-pollution-climate-change-measure-uk-a7466301.html

[Beefster]

Corbyn's a huddy and is never going to get the chance to pass any new laws but sometimes politicians need to be bold to change existing paradigms. I think the idea is fine personally. Better than every politician just resorting to populism.

[500miles]

It's a good idea, and will certainly force electric vehicles and their development into the mainstream.

[RyeSloan]

Germany has done this already 2030 is their date I think.

It's classic politicians stuff though...it's pretty clear that the auto industry has already moved towards electric and will continue to do so with billions and billions now being poured into development by the likes of BMW and Mercedes.

So it might be eye catching but it will mean nothing but rubber stamping a trend already in place.

[Hibernia&Alba]

At some point down the road there won't be any oil with which to power vehicles, and much more imminent is the threat of climate change. Any big ideas that could help address the problem must be worth discussion.

[Hibbyradge]

Yes, the idea is fine and I'm probably being too critical on this occasion.

I just wish Labour would produce some good, plausible, big ideas on the issues that the country imminently faces.

Vote winning ideas.

[Colr]

Anyone see his mate Dianne Abbot on Andrew Marr?

One of the most incoherent displays I've seen in some time.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Yes, the idea is fine and I'm probably being too critical on this occasion.

I just wish Labour would produce some good, plausible, big ideas on the issues that the country imminently faces.

Vote winning ideas.

But climate change is as acute an emergency as we face; not just the country but the planet. I know what you mean about bread and butter issues like the NHS and housing etc, and climate change seems less relevant to everyday lives, but it's possibly the biggest single threat to the world now.

[Colr]

But climate change is as acute an emergency as we face; not just the country but the planet. I know what you mean about bread and butter issues like the NHS and housing etc, and climate change seems less relevant to everyday lives, but it's possibly the biggest single threat to the world now.

NHS? Labour's go to shroud waving exercise.

[Hibernia&Alba]

NHS? Labour's go to shroud waving exercise.

One of the few things left to represent a civilised society, since most things were privatised, commoditised, atomised. If Labour doesn't fight for its principles, the Tories sure as hell won't.

[Colr]

One of the few things left to represent a civilised society, since most things were privatised, commoditised, atomised. If Labour doesn't fight for its principles, the Tories sure as hell won't.

Vote for us or the Tories will privatise the NHS? Wearing a little thin.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Vote for us or the Tories will privatise the NHS? Wearing a little thin.

Thatcher wanted to privatise it in 1984 but was stopped by her cabinet. Instead the disastrous internal market was introduced. I'm not a Labour voter but would trust them infinitely more with the NHS than the Tories, particularly with a Leader like Corbyn. I do agree with the OP that Labour needs to reconnect with the working people it should represent, but I don't think that has to be at the expense of issues like global warming. Labour needs to talk about how 35 years of neo-liberalism has shafted the majority for the benefit of the view. It should be showing the Tories up as the representatives of a minority of the population, as the evidence demonstrates.

Trump latched on to this during the presidential race and cast himself as champion of those dispossessed by neo-liberalism. Now I think he was being disingenuous and won't actually do anything to reduce inequality and so help the middle and working class destroyed by Reaganimcs; however, Labour has the potential to follow through on the words, but must provide practical policies on health, housing, education, welfare, transport etc that roll back individualism and demonstrably prove that the majority would be better off, including millions who vote Tory. The Labour heartlands are walking away, just like the Democratic heartlands in the States, because the party that should be on the side of the average worker and the poor has spent decades mimicking the supply side trickle down that has done little to nothing for the majority.

[hibs0666]

Brexit, blah blah, Aleppo, blah blah, the economy, blah blah.

Ignore all those irrelevancies.

This'll get us elected.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/petrol-car-ban-jeremy-corbyn-labour-proposal-air-pollution-climate-change-measure-uk-a7466301.html

What's the problem?

[Hibrandenburg]

Brexit, blah blah, Aleppo, blah blah, the economy, blah blah.

Ignore all those irrelevancies.

This'll get us elected.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/petrol-car-ban-jeremy-corbyn-labour-proposal-air-pollution-climate-change-measure-uk-a7466301.html

I think anyone with kids might see this as a burning issue that needs to be dealt with.

[hibsbollah]

I think anyone with kids might see this as a burning issue that needs to be dealt with.

:agree: Its a good policy because a)its The Right Thing To Do, and b) its starting the process of getting votes back from Greens who like his wealth distribution policies but worry about his environmentalist credentials.

[Hibbyradge]

Yes, it's the right thing to do but it's a policy which few people, if any, will decide their vote upon. (Sorry for the poor gramnar. I'm in a beach bar in Tenerife.)

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3813/The-EU-and-Brexit-is-seen-as-the-most-important-issue-facing-Britain.aspx

[Hibrandenburg]

Yes, it's the right thing to do but it's a policy which few people, if any, will decide their vote upon. (Sorry for the poor gramnar. I'm in a beach bar in Tenerife.)

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3813/The-EU-and-Brexit-is-seen-as-the-most-important-issue-facing-Britain.aspx

Do you have kids Radge?

[hibsbollah]

Yes, it's the right thing to do but it's a policy which few people, if any, will decide their vote upon. (Sorry for the poor gramnar. I'm in a beach bar in Tenerife.)

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3813/The-EU-and-Brexit-is-seen-as-the-most-important-issue-facing-Britain.aspx

You wouldn't vote for him whatever he did, lets be honest.

[Hibbyradge]

You wouldn't vote for him whatever he did, lets be honest.

What an ignorant remark.

The man's a tit.

A total tit.

But I'll be voting for whoever can beat the Tory.

To be honest.

[hibsbollah]

What an ignorant remark.

The man's a tit.

A total tit.

But I'll be voting for whoever can beat the Tory.

To be honest.

:faf: Chill out dear.

You dont like him. I think we all get that by now.
You just appear to have started a thread intended to mock him, neglecting to realise its actually quite a good policy?

[PeeJay]

Germany has done this already 2030 is their date I think.




Think you'll find that a resolution has been made by the German Bundesrat calling on the European Commission to ban new sales of petrol/diesel vehicles - no more. 2030 - 14 years down the road? It's like Corbyn becoming Prime Minister: it's not going to happen .... :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Think you'll find that a resolution has been made by the German Bundesrat calling on the European Commission to ban new sales of petrol/diesel vehicles - no more. 2030 - 14 years down the road? It's like Corbyn becoming Prime Minister: it's not going to happen .... :greengrin

Hmm fair point...on doing a bit more reading it seems it's a non binding resolution from their upper chamber that is specific to Germany and still needs ratified into law. As part of that resolution though it appears they are suggesting the EU look to develop something similar and with the influence of Germany within the EU this is seen as reasonably significant.

I get your point though...it's nicely far enough into the future that the likelihood of anything happening any time soon is remote.

However as I said massive moves are already afoot (a number of new gigafactories already being built or planned in Europe) and with ridiculous concept of clean diesel finally dead auto makers in general are already moving their resources towards electric so we are starting to see the start of a structural shift with or without law makers.

[PeeJay]

Hmm fair point...on doing a bit more reading it seems it's a non binding resolution from their upper chamber that is specific to Germany and still needs ratified into law. As part of that resolution though it appears they are suggesting the EU look to develop something similar and with the influence of Germany within the EU this is seen as reasonably significant.

I get your point though...it's nicely far enough into the future that the likelihood of anything happening any time soon is remote.

However as I said massive moves are already afoot (a number of new gigafactories already being built or planned in Europe) and with ridiculous concept of clean diesel finally dead auto makers in general are already moving their resources towards electric so we are starting to see the start of a structural shift with or without law makers.

German car makers have been basically lying about their "environmental" intentions for such a long time it would be foolish to believe we can expect anything honest from them - if they can still make MONEY with gas-guzzling SUVs they will right up to the last day before 2030: The environment is always last on their list of considerations, despite what the PR man claims.

I find myself wondering about the infrastructure required to charge all these electric vehicles, who will fund and maintain/operate such networks? Where will we get the "clean" energy to power the ZEVs - fossile-burning power plants/nuclear?

The talk here in Germany is that the local manufacturers have (again) missed the boat and China will be the driving force in the area of electric vehicles, should be interesting to see how this pans out ...

[Hibbyradge]

:faf: Chill out dear.

You dont like him. I think we all get that by now.
You just appear to have started a thread intended to mock him, neglecting to realise its actually quite a good policy?

I'm critisising him because he's almost silent on the policies that actually matter to the electorate.

[RyeSloan]

German car makers have been basically lying about their "environmental" intentions for such a long time it would be foolish to believe we can expect anything honest from them - if they can still make MONEY with gas-guzzling SUVs they will right up to the last day before 2030: The environment is always last on their list of considerations, despite what the PR man claims.

I find myself wondering about the infrastructure required to charge all these electric vehicles, who will fund and maintain/operate such networks? Where will we get the "clean" energy to power the ZEVs - fossile-burning power plants/nuclear?

The talk here in Germany is that the local manufacturers have (again) missed the boat and China will be the driving force in the area of electric vehicles, should be interesting to see how this pans out ...

Well I don't doubt they will want a return on their investment to date for as long a period as possible but there is plenty signs that they are now in catch up mode on the electric front.

A few examples are the recently announced €1bn investment in charging stations, both VW and Daimler creating new brands and investment to develop electric cars, Ford changing their whole company philosophy to be a 'mobility company', VW's mooted €10bn gigafactory investment, Renault removing diesel options from a number of their cars and of course the Tesla / Uber effect along with Panasonic's huge investments to date.

These changes don't happen overnight and often only after decades of investment do they come into the publics view but that investment has clearly been going on for some time and is continuing to ramp up and I for one believe we will see that more and more in terms of what the car makers bring to market over the next decade.

As for how the energy will be produced to charge all these electric cars well one thing is for certain governments have been particularly inept at developing the correct mix and yet again it's transformational developments like Teslas power pack and solar tiles and lithium based grid storage that will be the likely solution rather than anything the law makers will dream up or support.

[GreenLake]

2030 should give me enough time to scratch an Aston Martin V12 off my bucket list.

[Colr]

German car makers have been basically lying about their "environmental" intentions for such a long time it would be foolish to believe we can expect anything honest from them - if they can still make MONEY with gas-guzzling SUVs they will right up to the last day before 2030: The environment is always last on their list of considerations, despite what the PR man claims.

I find myself wondering about the infrastructure required to charge all these electric vehicles, who will fund and maintain/operate such networks? Where will we get the "clean" energy to power the ZEVs - fossile-burning power plants/nuclear?

The talk here in Germany is that the local manufacturers have (again) missed the boat and China will be the driving force in the area of electric vehicles, should be interesting to see how this pans out ...

I did look at what the Council are supposed to do to facilitate charging points on street. Fine words but utterly Kafkaesque process so I gave up.

[--------]

Once we're all driving electric cars, how are we going to generate the electricity?

Just asking.

[Hibbyradge]

Once we're all driving electric cars, how are we going to generate the electricity?

Just asking.

We'll simply harvest all the renewable energy that will be created by all those guillotine blades going up and down, Doddie.

[hibsbollah]

Opinum now has Labour up in the polls, Tory down, Labour now 7 points behind, about where they were at the election and representing a significant recovery from the 'chicken coup'.

Corbyn dismantling May at PMQs over social care, a £240 million funding announcement shortly afterwards, Tories looking divided over Brexit and successive own goals probably have more to do with it than Corbyn making an announcement on reducing car use and the environment but it doesn't seem to have hurt his cause? (source data taken 13-16 December).

[Hibernia&Alba]

Opinum now has Labour up in the polls, Tory down, Labour now 7 points behind, about where they were at the election and representing a significant recovery from the 'chicken coup'.

Corbyn dismantling May at PMQs over social care, a £240 million funding announcement shortly afterwards, Tories looking divided over Brexit and successive own goals probably have more to do with it than Corbyn making an announcement on reducing car use and the environment but it doesn't seem to have hurt his cause? (source data taken 13-16 December).

All true, but the problem as always is the right wing press, which constantly pushes the 'unelectable' narrative. Any policies which threaten the great concentration of wealth in power in a few hands are described as 'unelectable'. The refrain of "he isn't a prime minister" is everywhere, yet ask why and it all comes down to the threat felt by the establishment. 'Anti-establishment' politics seems valid only when it comes from the right.

[lucky]

All true, but the problem as always is the right wing press, which constantly pushes the 'unelectable' narrative. Any policies which threaten the great concentration of wealth in power in a few hands are described as 'unelectable'. The refrain of "he isn't a prime minister" is everywhere, yet ask why and it all comes down to the threat felt by the establishment. 'Anti-establishment' politics seems valid only when it comes from the right.

Spot on, the anti Corbyn rhetoric is by the establishment of more than just the Tories. Workers are standing up and fighting back. The establishment have launch a class war as they see things are changing and the people want change and won't tolerate the politics of hate no more

[TheReg!]

Labour are a complete shambles, If a GE was called tomorrow, Labour would be in Lib Dems territory. The North East of England have pretty much turned their back on Labour along with Scotland and Wales, Jeremy Corbyn is a looney and let's not forget about Diane Abbott 😂

[TheReg!]

Spot on, the anti Corbyn rhetoric is by the establishment of more than just the Tories. Workers are standing up and fighting back. The establishment have launch a class war as they see things are changing and the people want change and won't tolerate the politics of hate no more

You really think workers are gonna vote labour with JC at the helm?? Really? I'll think you'll find workers did stand up already with the Brexit and Trump vote, you can't hide from this fact.

[Hibbyradge]

Spot on, the anti Corbyn rhetoric is by the establishment of more than just the Tories. Workers are standing up and fighting back. The establishment have launch a class war as they see things are changing and the people want change and won't tolerate the politics of hate no more

It seems that the people do indeed wsnt change, but it's the politics of hate and division they're embracing

[Hibernia&Alba]

Labour are a complete shambles, If a GE was called tomorrow, Labour would be in Lib Dems territory. The North East of England have pretty much turned their back on Labour along with Scotland and Wales, Jeremy Corbyn is a looney and let's not forget about Diane Abbott ��

This is the narrative I mean. In what sense is Corbyn a loony? That's the line most of the papers push, because their billionaire owners demand it. Give them a Tory like Blair and they'll soften their line.

[TheReg!]

This is the narrative I mean. In what sense is Corbyn a loony? That's the line most of the papers push, because their billionaire owners demand it. Give them a Tory like Blair and they'll soften their line.

Having Diane Abbott as shadow Home Secretary is good enough reason for me to call him a loony.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Having Diane Abbott as shadow Home security is good enough reason for me to call him a loony.

I really don't think it is. You might disagree with his choice, but it isn't evidence of a loony. The likes of The Sun and the Daily Mail have merely trudged up their 'loony left' narrative of the eighties; those crazy left wing councils that wanted to turn everybody into feminists and gays. Anything that would create a more even distribution of wealth and power is attacked as unworkable and relentlessly mocked, in order to frighten the public.

[Hibbyradge]

Q. What do you call a millionaire who went to grammar school, who has never even applied for a normal workers job, who has lived very comfortably off the tax payer as an MP for 33 years, and who currently earns £140k, also from the tax payer?

A. Anti-establishment

Just saying.

[TheReg!]

I really don't think it is. You might disagree with his choice, but it isn't evidence of a loony. The likes of The Sun and the Daily Mail have merely trudged up their 'loony left' narrative of the eighties; those crazy left wing councils that wanted to turn everybody into feminists and gays. Anything that would create a more even distribution of wealth and power is attacked as unworkable and relentlessly mocked, in order to frighten the public.

The man would take us to a Soviet style type of stagnation through his backward 70s style policies, he's a loony alright, I don't need any newspaper to confirm that either.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The man would take us to a Soviet style type of stagnation through his backward 70s style policies, he's a loony alright, I don't need any newspaper to confirm that either.

The majority have suffered Soviet style stagnation since Thatcher/Reagan came to power; it's only the top 10 per cent who are better off (and massively better off) in real terms. The failure of neoliberal deregulation to deliver what it promised is behind much of the so called anti-establishment votes we've seen recently. It certainly enabled Trump to get elected, and we can see the food bank and homelessness crises here as evidence.

[hibsbollah]

All true, but the problem as always is the right wing press, which constantly pushes the 'unelectable' narrative. Any policies which threaten the great concentration of wealth in power in a few hands are described as 'unelectable'. The refrain of "he isn't a prime minister" is everywhere, yet ask why and it all comes down to the threat felt by the establishment. 'Anti-establishment' politics seems valid only when it comes from the right.

The 'unelectable' narrative comes from the false premise that people vote for a very narrow and unchangeable range of reasons, usually defined by the Daily Mail. Of course, the things that motivate people change through time and by external factors like how the economy is doing. The immovable things that motivate people that don't seem to change if the polls are right, are the NHS and the economy. But there are also hundreds of thousands of votes out there from people on the left who have a strong interest in the environment and either vote Green despite their powerlessness or don't vote at all. How many families are on the sofa on a Sunday evening being bewitched by Britain's favourite environmentalist on TV? This cohort will get bigger as climate change impacts on people's lives. Up to now Corbyns links to union power and the 'clean' coal agenda don't really give confidence that a red/green consensus is very likely. So what he and he did last week was clever.

[Hibbyradge]

The 'unelectable' narrative comes from the false premise that people vote for a very narrow and unchangeable range of reasons, usually defined by the Daily Mail. Of course, the things that motivate people change through time and by external factors like how the economy is doing. The immovable things that motivate people that don't seem to change if the polls are right, are the NHS and the economy. But there are also hundreds of thousands of votes out there from people on the left who have a strong interest in the environment and either vote Green despite their powerlessness or don't vote at all. How many families are on the sofa on a Sunday evening being bewitched by Britain's favourite environmentalist on TV? This cohort will get bigger as climate change impacts on people's lives. Up to now Corbyns links to union power and the 'clean' coal agenda don't really give confidence that a red/green consensus is very likely. So what he and he did last week was clever.

What???

[Hibernia&Alba]

The man would take us to a Soviet style type of stagnation through his backward 70s style policies, he's a loony alright, I don't need any newspaper to confirm that either.

Chomsky: stagnation for the majority since the 1970s in the neoliberal countries


https://youtu.be/lPBaVcHJtjk

[hibsbollah]

What???

Let me know what bits you don't get and I'll try to explain. It's a fairly straightforward argument.

[Hibbyradge]

Let me know what bits you don't get and I'll try to explain. It's a fairly straightforward argument.

Sorry, poor attempt at sarcasm from me.

The mere idea that Corbyn did something politically expedient rather than purely principled startled me. :wink:

However, hopefully we'll see some more of that behaviour ftom our relaunched leader in the near future.

Brexit might afford a suitable opportunity...

[TheReg!]

Labour has become the voice of the champagne-sipping metropolitan elite. It no longer represents ordinary people. Good riddance to it.

[Moulin Yarns]

Labour has become the voice of the champagne-sipping metropolitan elite. It no longer represents ordinary people. Good riddance to it.


I think you have got your tense mixed up. They had under Blair and Milliband

[Smartie]

Labour has become the voice of the champagne-sipping metropolitan elite. It no longer represents ordinary people. Good riddance to it.

This perception, and the perception that the Tories, UKIP and the far right somehow do represent ordinary people are the most dangerous misconceptions in the country right now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This perception, and the perception that the Tories, UKIP and the far right somehow do represent ordinary people are the most dangerous misconceptions in the country right now.

Totally agree. We've somehow arrived at the point where a guy like Donald Trump and a party like UKIP are claiming they represent the interests of those at the bottom of the heap. It's madness.

[Colr]

This perception, and the perception that the Tories, UKIP and the far right somehow do represent ordinary people are the most dangerous misconceptions in the country right now.

Too bloody right!! I am really angry with the Labour party for allowing this to happen by effectively exiting the battlefield.

[PeeJay]

This perception, and the perception that the Tories, UKIP and the far right somehow do represent ordinary people are the most dangerous misconceptions in the country right now.

What makes you think "ordinary" people are not represented by the Tory party, UKIP or even the far right? :confused:

[Hibernia&Alba]

What makes you think "ordinary" people are not represented by the Tory party, UKIP or even the far right? :confused:

IMHO, there is a great deal of frustration within many countries, as a consequence of austerity post 2008 and the stagnant/falling living standards before then. The policies of The Conservative Party since Thatcher - policies supported by UKIP - have been responsible the eroding the social mobility that enabled people from modest backgrounds to make progress. The statistics clearly show that the majority are no better off in real terms than they were forty years ago, whereas a small minority has hit the jackpot. The Conservative Party are masters at persuading those from working class and middles class communities to vote against their interests and to support policies that accentuate the concentration of wealth and power at the top. In this effort they are aided by the press. The Tories even opposed a minimum wage and measures like tax credits. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming into polices that benefit the less affluent, the 'ordinary' voters.

As for the far right, their answer to these complex issues, of course, is to say we can have a wonderful life if only we kick out immigrants etc. They shift the problems created by systemic failures onto those who are somehow perceived as different, which does nothing to address the real issues. Now, of course, if somebody is a bona fide racist, the far right does indeed represent them; but many people who turn to them out of desperation are not dyed in the wool fascists.

[hibsbollah]

What makes you think "ordinary" people are not represented by the Tory party, UKIP or even the far right? :confused:

Because the Tories are only interested in protecting those with financial power. And Fascists are only interested in protecting the power of the state. Neither of those interests serve 'ordinary people', however you want to define it.

[PeeJay]

IMHO, there is a great deal of frustration within many countries, as a consequence of austerity post 2008 and the stagnant/falling living standards before then. The policies of The Conservative Party since Thatcher - policies supported by UKIP - have been responsible the eroding the social mobility that enabled people from modest backgrounds to make progress. The statistics clearly show that the majority are no better off in real terms than they were forty years ago, whereas a small minority has hit the jackpot. The Conservative Party are masters at persuading those from working class and middles class communities to vote against their interests and to support policies that accentuate the concentration of wealth and power at the top. In this effort they are aided by the press. The Tories even opposed a minimum wage and measures like tax credits. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming into polices that benefit the less affluent, the 'ordinary' voters.

As for the far right, their answer to these complex issues, of course, is to say we can have a wonderful life if only we kick out immigrants etc. They shift the problems created by systemic failures onto those who are somehow perceived as different, which does nothing to address the real issues. Now, of course, if somebody is a bona fide racist, the far right does indeed represent them; but many people who turn to them out of desperation are not dyed in the wool fascists.

Time to stop blaming everything on Thatcher and Reagan - clearly remember the Labour Party being in power for some time as well as one or two Democrats stateside? :greengrin

Globalisation seems to me to more the reason why upward mobility has been put on hold and why so many have lost their jobs or opportunities to move on to better jobs. While the downside of that is certainly being felt harshly in countries like the UK, Spain, France and - Germany to an extent - other countries have made tremendous strides forward in terms of better jobs, salaries and social mobility! Globalisation has winners and losers. People want cheap this that and the other, but fail to appreciate that it all comes at a cost, how many are prepared to pay more for food, or services: why do people think everything has to be as cheap as possible?

[Hibrandenburg]

Time to stop blaming everything on Thatcher and Reagan - clearly remember the Labour Party being in power for some time as well as one or two Democrats stateside? :greengrin

Globalisation seems to me to more the reason why upward mobility has been put on hold and why so many have lost their jobs or opportunities to move on to better jobs. While the downside of that is certainly being felt harshly in countries like the UK, Spain, France and - Germany to an extent - other countries have made tremendous strides forward in terms of better jobs, salaries and social mobility! Globalisation has winners and losers. People want cheap this that and the other, but fail to appreciate that it all comes at a cost, how many are prepared to pay more for food, or services: why do people think everything has to be as cheap as possible?





Simply put, the rest of the world has caught up with and to an extent overtaken the West in production capabilities. They can also do this at a lower cost which has led not only to lower wages when we try and compete but also to outsourcing of production to those countries who can produce at a lower cost.

I can't see us making progress any time soon.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Time to stop blaming everything on Thatcher and Reagan - clearly remember the Labour Party being in power for some time as well as one or two Democrats stateside? :greengrin

Globalisation seems to me to more the reason why upward mobility has been put on hold and why so many have lost their jobs or opportunities to move on to better jobs. While the downside of that is certainly being felt harshly in countries like the UK, Spain, France and - Germany to an extent - other countries have made tremendous strides forward in terms of better jobs, salaries and social mobility! Globalisation has winners and losers. People want cheap this that and the other, but fail to appreciate that it all comes at a cost, how many are prepared to pay more for food, or services: why do people think everything has to be as cheap as possible?






But the whole political system has shifted rightwards. The New Democrats and New Labour bought into the neoliberal philosophy, believing it the only way to win elections. I disagree, and would also say we need alternative ideas in a democracy. Labour's shift to the right over twenty years has left their traditional base feeling betrayed and unrepresented: in Scotland Labour has been wiped out, and in northern England the protest vote is growing; that region voted most heavily for Brexit. Voter turnout in elections is falling, as more people don't feel they have any voice. I agree with you on globalisation, but that policy has been pushed by the neoliberals, who love the global race to the bottom. Worker insecurity is wonderful for the multinational companies.

[lucky]

Labour has become the voice of the champagne-sipping metropolitan elite. It no longer represents ordinary people. Good riddance to it.

Step back from your PC and breathe, I never knew that Nigel Farage was a Hibs fan.

[One Day Soon]

Corbyn can say and do whatever he wants - it will make no difference whatsoever because his 'leadership' looks and sounds like what it is. An irrelevant, metropolitan, privileged, union-owned, fringe-loving icon of the oppositionalist left. Sadly for him he isn't even in charge of the Labour Party, the people around him are. And those people are among the most politically inept to have staffed senior political office in the UK in decades.

They have no interest in creating an electoral coalition for a centre-left government between working and middle class. There will be by-election failure after by-election failure and continued polling stagnation and yet people will still blame the media, Blairites, international conspiracy, domestic conspiracy - anything really other than the source of the failure: Corbyn and his idiosyncratic collection of political causes.

The poorest will pay the highest price for this fantasist journey as Labour loses yet again and for the foreseeable future - and the biggest culprits are in the the mass of Labour members who re-elected him so determinedly, ignoring the need to be able to reach out to the wider electorate.

To be fair none of the current leaders have a plan. May, Sturgeon and Corbyn are all just different shades of the same political class that cannot articulate an answer to how we get growth, reduce our debt and give people a future they feel they really have a stake in. Corbyn is just at the most spectacularly obvious crap end of a political leadership spectrum which has 'irrelevant' as its high point and 'catastrophic' at the other.

[TheReg!]

Step back from your PC and breathe, I never knew that Nigel Farage was a Hibs fan.

Actually, i'm a long term Labour supporter until recently, so i think it's you and your far left clique who shout down anyone and everyone on the Holly ground who should step away from the PC, it's become a little haven for you lot, have you not noticed that the vast majority of posters just stay away from here as they're bored of the same old posters sprouting the same old far left nonsense?

[lucky]

Point out far left postings on here? If anything I think the holy ground is more nationalist than far left

[ronaldo7]

Actually, i'm a long term Labour supporter until recently, so i think it's you and your far left clique who shout down anyone and everyone on the Holly ground who should step away from the PC, it's become a little haven for you lot, have you not noticed that the vast majority of posters just stay away from here as they're bored of the same old posters sprouting the same old far left nonsense?

Happy Christmas to you too. :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Actually, i'm a long term Labour supporter until recently, so i think it's you and your far left clique who shout down anyone and everyone on the Holly ground who should step away from the PC, it's become a little haven for you lot, have you not noticed that the vast majority of posters just stay away from here as they're bored of the same old posters sprouting the same old far left nonsense?

How do you know they don't stay away because of the boring centre right consensus? If the holy ground Is a far left clique I'm nigel farage.