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View Full Version : Could we learn from B-team model used at Brentford?



Dan Sarf
05-12-2016, 03:25 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/38178077

"After reviewing their academy, Brentford decided the probability of producing first-team players and fighting off other higher profile clubs was too big a risk for an investment of millions of pounds per year.

The context of his presentation made the content more relevant. The SFA is conducting a performance review, with the working group drawing up a list of potential proposals to be implemented by the incoming performance director.

They include reducing the number of fully-funded elite academies in Scotland - to focus resources on the very best players in the country - and encouraging development pathways for academy graduates to spend time on loan at lower league clubs, who would no longer run their own academies, for first-team experience."

Maybes aye, maybes naw? :confused:

Mr White
05-12-2016, 03:37 PM
Only playing friendlies seems a bit unreliable for players development imo. Interesting approach though.

Billy Whizz
05-12-2016, 03:38 PM
How much does our academy cost per year to run

blackpoolhibs
06-12-2016, 06:58 AM
I have a friend who's involved with a pro club down here, he reckons most clubs are just playing at these academies, and his club would scrap it today if they could.

These are all driven by the FA, and with the amount of grants given and money sloshing around, even in the lower leagues, he reckons it's a box ticking exercise that produces next to nothing.

And with a manager's shelf life being what it is, they'd rather spend money on proven talent, than risk blooding a kid.

I think it's St Johnstone who dont have an academy, or spend any money on producing kids through their system.

When you look at what they have achieved with their first team on average home crowds of under 3000, who's to say they have not got it right?

We all love a home grown player, someone who's grown up a Hibby and come through the ranks to play for the team he loves, yet i wonder what the average cost is to produce one of these, and if we are in profit or loss in all of this?

theonlywayisup
06-12-2016, 07:57 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/38178077

"After reviewing their academy, Brentford decided the probability of producing first-team players and fighting off other higher profile clubs was too big a risk for an investment of millions of pounds per year.

The context of his presentation made the content more relevant. The SFA is conducting a performance review, with the working group drawing up a list of potential proposals to be implemented by the incoming performance director.

They include reducing the number of fully-funded elite academies in Scotland - to focus resources on the very best players in the country - and encouraging development pathways for academy graduates to spend time on loan at lower league clubs, who would no longer run their own academies, for first-team experience."

Maybes aye, maybes naw? :confused:

I think this is only going to make it worse. I've already seen it in the age group of 9-13 boys, where the academies select the "best" boys, only to disappoint boys, to then pick the next group of "best" boys, only to disappoint...........

At the age of 9-13, how many boys are turned off football by the harsh reality of the above. Then there is the "win at all costs", "play the strong boys" coaches. How many coaches have said to me "size doesn't matter", "I'm more interested in playing good football, not winning" - yet shout and scream from the touchlines and pick their "strongest" boys. How many "top" league teams retain the same 10-15 boys from the age of six to the age of 16 - none, I'm sure, cause they're always on the look out for the "better" boys.

To me the focus should be going the other way - not letting "elite" academies or "pro-youth" teams anywhere near the boys until they are 16. Up to that time, you play with your mates in your local team. Your team will win some, your team will lose some....but you play with your mates. The focus should be on getting all teams playing the right way. The cream will eventually surface - it's not the way we do it now!!

WhileTheChief..
06-12-2016, 09:10 AM
First thing I'd do is scrap our youth development.

Complete waste of money from top to bottom. Use this money to sign proper footballers instead.

It's not our clubs responsibility to develop young players for the SFA. Schools and clubs like Hutchison Vale do that job far better than we could.

blackpoolhibs
06-12-2016, 04:05 PM
First thing I'd do is scrap our youth development.

Complete waste of money from top to bottom. Use this money to sign proper footballers instead.

It's not our clubs responsibility to develop young players for the SFA. Schools and clubs like Hutchison Vale do that job far better than we could.

I said something similar a few years ago on here, and was castigated for holding that view. I'm not sure th amount we pay for this is cost effective, but await to be corrected?

I wonder how many players we need to bring through a season do we need to break even, or are we as i'd guess just training lads up and paying for it for lower league sides?

Who was the last player who came through the academy/youth set up, that we sold on for a profit? As apart from the golden generation, i can't think of any?:confused:

The_Exile
06-12-2016, 04:26 PM
I'm sure this has been discussed officially before but can't remember the details. You only need to look at the national team to see how poor the players are that we're producing.

Personally I wouldn't have a youth academy, but I'd expect an SFA youth league set up with differing age levels and would expect the SPFL clubs to assist with coaching and providing facilities to help the local kids train. It's great when a youth academy is run well and produces consistently but I can't think of a single club in the country that's achieved this, ever. I'd like to see a draft system from the youth set up and clubs could also dip into it for emergency loans as and when needed. If there was an outstanding player and he was subject to a transfer before he was drafted then his value would be set by a tribunal at a realistic level and the profit made distributed across the clubs with the lower league clubs receiving the highest percentage of the transfer value so that wealth distribution from the set up would in turn make the weaker teams stronger financially, when they do come up they're not automatic favourites for relegation based on their spending power. I'd want the number of teams reduced and 2 leagues of 16, 3 up, 3 down, 2 automatic, 1 playoff.

B teams are an interesting prospect and one that I would be keen on the powers that be discussing. I think there should be a place for fringe players to play high-level competitive football, keeping them match sharp at all times.

Sergey
06-12-2016, 05:00 PM
I said something similar a few years ago on here, and was castigated for holding that view. I'm not sure th amount we pay for this is cost effective, but await to be corrected?

I wonder how many players we need to bring through a season do we need to break even, or are we as i'd guess just training lads up and paying for it for lower league sides?

Who was the last player who came through the academy/youth set up, that we sold on for a profit? As apart from the golden generation, i can't think of any?:confused:

Interesting thread.

As an aside, I was at a recent Met Police match and was surprised that the matched was being filmed by cameramen in two different positions within the ground. I got speaking to one of their lads at HT and it transpired that Met Police have a young goalkeeper on loan from Chelsea called Nathan Baxter.I got speaking to his father after the game and he's seemingly been on Chelsea's books since the age of 8 (10 years). They fact that they are filming him week after week indicates that they have high hopes for the lad.

Chelsea can obviously spend copious amounts of dough (because they have it) in the hope that one player comes good (I don't recall the last one that came through their youth system), but we've had several players from them that have been disasters.

There's a lot of good young players in the lower/non league in England that are given competitive matches to play in. Especially so foreign nationals who haven't passed through the kids/youth system in this country. That's where the money can be made without serious investment.

TRC
06-12-2016, 05:08 PM
Interesting thread.

As an aside, I was at a recent Met Police match and was surprised that the matched was being filmed by cameramen in two different positions within the ground. I got speaking to one of their lads at HT and it transpired that Met Police have a young goalkeeper on loan from Chelsea called Nathan Baxter.I got speaking to his father after the game and he's seemingly been on Chelsea's books since the age of 8 (10 years). They fact that they are filming him week after week indicates that they have high hopes for the lad.

Chelsea can obviously spend copious amounts of dough (because they have it) in the hope that one player comes good (I don't recall the last one that came through their youth system), but we've had several players from them that have been disasters.

There's a lot of good young players in the lower/non league in England that are given competitive matches to play in. Especially so foreign nationals who haven't passed through the kids/youth system in this country. That's where the money can be made without serious investment.

Were you not talking about a couple of guys in the 'pub leagues' that because of some visa red tape they couldn't play in the professional leagues? What is the actual problem? Is it something that a team like hibs could our would be able to fix?

Sergey
06-12-2016, 05:28 PM
Were you not talking about a couple of guys in the 'pub leagues' that because of some visa red tape they couldn't play in the professional leagues? What is the actual problem? Is it something that a team like hibs could our would be able to fix?

I'm not an employment law expert, but I think that Brexit will do away with some current laws (or it could make it tougher, I dunno) - Didn't we lose Zemamma because of some draconian law about his wife being under 21?

I think (repeat, think) it's to do with work permits at professional level. As I said, I'm not an employment lawyer.

where'stheslope
06-12-2016, 07:40 PM
Sounds like a big bonus for the Ugly Sisters!

As it is only their young players who seem to be pulling on Scotland shirts, all the monies will be channeled towards their Youth Programs????

After all its only them who have high profile games!!!