Greatest ever player.

[hibs#1]

Who do you think was/is the greatest ever player,not your favourite player just the greatest I'm going Messi never seen Pele,Maradona,cruyff,best or the likes
Honorable mentions for in no order
Zidane
Ineista
Maldini
Both Ronaldo's (original one was outstanding)
Del piero
Henry
Bergkamp
Xavier
Gerrard
Lampard
Puyol
Could go on for hours but I think I'll stop at that.
Would like to here what older posters think if they think any of the newer generation compares to older playears.

[cleanyman]

Its got to be Maradona

[Tricla]

Haji

[HoboHarry]

I'm old enough to remember Cruyff and Best but I still think that Maradona was the best of the lot. My favorite though was Zidane by a long way....

[lord bunberry]

Its got to be Maradona
By a long way.

[SRHibs]

David Gray

[northstandhibby]

Claudio Gentile Italy - one of the hardest defenders of all time.

Franz Beckenbauer Germany - World Class Sweeper

Eric Cantona - France - Class.

Kevin Keegan England - Class

Kenny Dalgleish Scotland - Class

And as an aside the whole of the 91-92 Skol Cup winning team.

[lord bunberry]

David Gray
I was making the assumption that it was apart from David Gray :greengrin

[LustForLeith]

I was talking about this recently with someone and I made the argument that you can't be a really great footballer unless you've won the World Cup as a p!ayer.

From that argument I created a starting eleven which had many players I'd never had the chance to see p!ay. But this discussion took place in a pub when I was drunk so I was right!

[HoboHarry]

I was talking about this recently with someone and I made the argument that you can't be a really great footballer unless you've won the World Cup as a p!ayer.

From that argument I created a starting eleven which had many players I'd never had the chance to see p!ay. But this discussion took place in a pub when I was drunk so I was right!
So Nobby Stiles would be up there with a shout at being the world's greatest ever player?

:na na:

[SRHibs]

I don't think winning the World Cup should be a prerequisite for being titled the best player ever. Most achieved, yes, but in a game of 11 men there's a limit to what one player can do.

For me it has to be Messi. Realistically, because of the changing times there are probably numerous players playing just now who would be the best in the world if they were to go back 30 years.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Lothar Matthaus

[fat freddy]

Messi. No one comes close. Close the thread.

[northstandhibby]

Messi. No one comes close. Close the thread.

Claudio Gentile would have torn Messi a new one.

[patch1875]

Maldini for me.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Older Folks - how close to perfection was our own Gordon Smith?

[Marco G]

I don't think winning the World Cup should be a prerequisite for being titled the best player ever. Most achieved, yes, but in a game of 11 men there's a limit to what one player can do.

For me it has to be Messi. Realistically, because of the changing times there are probably numerous players playing just now who would be the best in the world if they were to go back 30 years.
Well Gordon Smith for me! Everything now is covered by slo mo and multiple angles rather than a bit of grainy film for those that never saw Gordon playing.

[lord bunberry]

Messi. No one comes close. Close the thread.
He couldn't lace Maradonna's boots. Maradonna won the World Cup with a decent, but not brilliant Argentina team. Messi is a genius, but he isn't good enough to carry a team when the chips are down.

[HoboHarry]

He couldn't lace Maradonna's boots. Maradonna won the World Cup with a decent, but not brilliant Argentina team. Messi is a genius, but he isn't good enough to carry a team when the chips are down.
Agreed. Messi (for me at least) has never carried his national team the way Maradona did his. Maradona was outstanding at both club and national level and I don't think the same could be said of Messi.....

[truehibernian]

It's all subjective and when you grew up - my Hibs hero was Ally MacLeid - but being honest, as poor as my club were (Hibs) I had a gran who lived next door to Eric Black in Aberdeen - he was my hero - he took me training at Seton Park in Aberdeen and my hero halo changed and was handed to a player many won't know - John McMaster - I played football for years after, but he's the best player I've seen close up - job wise I saw Gascogne ruin Hearts at Tynie and that was the most complete midfield performance I've seen - but McMaster was class - but I've still got a beer mat with super Ally's faded signature on - that wins !

[snooky]

I've always liked Cruyff but for class and cool Bergkamp's the man.
Look at the video on youtube of all his great goals. Half of them are deft chips.
Good tribute programme here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-E4-OQJPsc

[IberianHibernian]

Of the players I`ve seen live definitely Zidane but that`s cause I saw him at his peak whereas I saw Best with us when he was well past his best and Maradona several times for Sevilla in the late 80s when his disciplinary problems always seemed to shadow his class . I`ve seen Messi and C Ronaldo too but at the beginning of their careers . These votes tend to focus on forwards and attacking midfielders but I think Beckanbaur deserves a mention and Liam Brady and Paulo Futre ( ex Atletico Madrid and Portugal ) deserve to be mentioned for top 20 in last 20 - 30 years .

[Andy74]

Messi. No one comes close. Close the thread.

Maybe recently but the record of Pele takes some beating. Messi hasn't achieved a great deal at international level. Pele was influential in World Cup winning teams from the age of 17!

In his first World Cup aged 17 he scored the winner in the quarters, a hat trick in the semi and two in the final.

[Bostonhibby]

George Best

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[HibsNutter]

Messi for me. He makes me gasp in front of the tele like no player ever has. Capable of magic that nobody else can produce.

[monktonharp]

Maradonna

[B.H.F.C]

Messi takes some beating but I loved the original Ronaldo. And Zidane as well but partly because I grew up watching them. I dont think the likes of Messi would have scored quite so many goals, certainly at champions league level, which was a higher standard back then with the good Italian teams etc.

[Dashing Bob S]

Brazil

[Mibbes Aye]

Messi takes some beating but I loved the original Ronaldo. And Zidane as well but partly because I grew up watching them. I dont think the likes of Messi would have scored quite so many goals, certainly at champions league level, which was a higher standard back then with the good Italian teams etc.

:agree:

Pele was mentioned earlier, pretty much the epitome of a player leading his team to a World Cup and Ronaldo is probably the closest the Brazilians came to a successor.

I love Van Basten for his sheer goalscoringness, but Ronaldo was almost certainly the best forward in my time, pound for pound.

Agree with earlier post, Messi against a Gentile or even a Scirea or Baresi would be interesting :greengrin

He's not going to be in the final running, but one of the most sublime players I recall, mostly based on Mexico '86 was Michael Laudrup.

[northstandhibby]

Brazil

That's nuts

:greengrin

[killie-hibby]

Joe Baker

[lyonhibs]

David Gray

Fairly obviously, such a poll on a Hibs forum must be assumed to not include any of the starting XI from 21.05 or what would be the point???

Outwith those 14 heroes, it's clearly Maradona. Might have got one as a late sub for SJM back in his heyday.

[Since90+2]

Xavi was the heartbeat of the greatest club side in history and won everything with Spain when they won 3 major intternational trophies in a row. He was atleast as important to that Barcelona team as Messi was.

I think it's difficult to pick one player from Xavi , Zidane , Messi , C Ronaldo , Maradona and Pele.

[Pete]

Older Folks - how close to perfection was our own Gordon Smith?

I'm not old but he's closer than most might think. A player from that era who is in with a shout is Sir Stanley Matthews. While everyone else was going down the pub after training, he recognised the benefits of repetitive, hard training and reaped the benefits. I think he was close to 50 when he played his last competitive game.

The "best" is far too hard to pick because there are so many positions on the field resulting in keepers and defenders being overlooked and undervalued. Maldini? Lahm? Nobody has mentioned Baresi!

However, I'll go for Ronaldinho. In all my years of watching the game I'm yet to see anyone display the skills he has on a football field. Original Ronaldo, Hagi and Stoitchkov are others who, like Maradona, could carry teams and also deserve credit.

[hibs#1]

Obviously I I meant other than any of the cup winning side from may.I didn't think that would need posted out

I can't believe I missed out Ronaldinho from my opening post what a player.
Also was a massive Baggio fan when I was a young lad
Roberto not Dino (no offence dino)

[JimBHibees]

Maybe recently but the record of Pele takes some beating. Messi hasn't achieved a great deal at international level. Pele was influential in World Cup winning teams from the age of 17!

In his first World Cup aged 17 he scored the winner in the quarters, a hat trick in the semi and two in the final.

Agree I think it is difficult to look past Pele. His performance and the team he was part of in 1970 are simply difficult to match. Played at a time when defenders could kick anything as evidenced by being kicked out the tournament in 66.

[Itsnoteasy]

He couldn't lace Maradonna's boots. Maradonna won the World Cup with a decent, but not brilliant Argentina team. Messi is a genius, but he isn't good enough to carry a team when the chips are down.

Also a cheating junky

[Roxyhibee]

I used to go round the Pele / Cruyff / Maradona / Messi circuit of not being able to decide who was in fact the greatest footballer of all time.

Thankfully that debate was all put to bed at 16:55 on 21st May 2016 - arise Sir David Gray. No contest.

[TheReg!]

Maradona is the best player I've seen and Hibs best player that I've seen is Frank Sauzee

[AltheHibby]

I was talking about this recently with someone and I made the argument that you can't be a really great footballer unless you've won the World Cup as a p!ayer.

From that argument I created a starting eleven which had many players I'd never had the chance to see p!ay. But this discussion took place in a pub when I was drunk so I was right!

Which automatically excludes George Best, who is in my shortlist with Pele. But as a goalkeeperin my younger days, I have to go with Gordon Banks.

[calumhibee1]

Messi. No one comes close. Close the thread.

100%. Messi is by a distance the best ever. Cristiano Ronaldo is also the second best. The two of them are playing against some unbelievably athletic defenders and they make them look like they're trapped in quick sand.

[calumhibee1]

Maybe recently but the record of Pele takes some beating. Messi hasn't achieved a great deal at international level. Pele was influential in World Cup winning teams from the age of 17!

In his first World Cup aged 17 he scored the winner in the quarters, a hat trick in the semi and two in the final.

The same argument could be made that Pele never achieved nearly as much at club level.

[Ricky Bobby]

As great as Messi is, there is no way he could have stood up to the same kind of treatment Maradona did every week. There are plenty of great players in certain positions, but Maradona is the greatest natural footballer ever.

[lord bunberry]

https://youtu.be/zKUYPZvOdUs
https://youtu.be/zKUYPZvOdUs

[Bostonhibby]

George Best was doing messi type runs, scoring wonder goals whilst playing with a ball that weighed a ton and regularly being hacked at by an assortment of thugs masquerading as defenders in England at the time. The European cup final against benfica ain't a bad example of him grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck.

Flawed genius but a genius nevertheless.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

Messi. Not sure we've seen the like before.

[Ricky Bobby]

https://youtu.be/zKUYPZvOdUs
https://youtu.be/zKUYPZvOdUs

Bonus that he ripped the pish out of that arse Butcher.

[lord bunberry]

Bonus that he ripped the pish out of that arse Butcher.
He's still really bitter about that game, which is nice.

[Pretty Boy]

Hard to pick as what makes a good footballer has many variables. Different postions, styles etc. Of players who have played whilst I've been watching football I'd probably go:

Goalkeeper - Peter Schmeichel
Defender - Paolo Maldini
Midfielder - Iniesta
Attacking Midfielder- Messi
All round Striker - Ronaldo (de Lima)
Poacher - Pippo Inzaghi

I'd also throw in Ronaldo, Zidane, Scholes, Nesta, Buffon, Bergkamp, Hagi, Rivaldo, Ronaldhino, Matthaus and Romario.

Been lucky to live through a time when some unbelievable talents have played the game.

[Gordy M]

Messi is a fantastic player....but its got to be maradona. Not only did he do it with Argentina...he also took napoli to the serie a title, which at the time was a quite remarkable feat. If you get the chance watch the highlights of that season on youtube. Its really is something. Also id put zidane in my top 3. He was an absolutely great player.

[southsider]

A wee story about Messi. The manager of his local club Newells Old Boys' brought him to a first team game to impress the crowd. He threw young Leo the ball and told him to play keepie-uppy. He then kept the ball in the air for the whole half-time break. He was 9 !

[fat freddy]

Why is this thread still open? I thought I ordered it to be shut down yesterday?

[jdships]

Pele and Di Stefano - can't separate them .
Gordon Smith very close runner up !!
:not worth

[Green Reaper]

Agree I think it is difficult to look past Pele. His performance and the team he was part of in 1970 are simply difficult to match. Played at a time when defenders could kick anything as evidenced by being kicked out the tournament in 66.

Agree also for reasons stated plus some of the things he tried were genius and when he played there was no protection, players just trying to kick him off the park

[Dan Sarf]

1. Gordon Smith. Won the league with 3 different non-Old Firm teams.

2. Joe Baker.

3. George Best.

Don't care about any of the others.


:flag:

[CockneyRebel]

Maldini for me.


I have to agree with this especially if you restricted this poll to defenders, he was pure class throughout a long career.

[SaulGoodman]

Stokes

[northstandhibby]

Hard to pick as what makes a good footballer has many variables. Different postions, styles etc. Of players who have played whilst I've been watching football I'd probably go:

Goalkeeper - Peter Schmeichel
Defender - Paolo Maldini
Midfielder - Iniesta
Attacking Midfielder- Messi
All round Striker - Ronaldo (de Lima)
Poacher - Pippo Inzaghi

I'd also throw in Ronaldo, Zidane, Scholes, Nesta, Buffon, Bergkamp, Hagi, Rivaldo, Ronaldhino, Matthaus and Romario.

Been lucky to live through a time when some unbelievable talents have played the game.

Obviously we are all making personal choices of who we think the greatest players of all time are but I'm surprised you would include Paul Scholes ahead of Eric Cantona?

[Pretty Boy]

Obviously we are all making personal choices of who we think the greatest players of all time are but I'm surprised you would include Paul Scholes ahead of Eric Cantona?
Cantona was a great player and I wouldn't argue against him being right up there.

Scholes was, imo, one of the top 5 midfielders of his generation. Consistently top class for a decade and more.

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[northstandhibby]

Cantona was a great player and I wouldn't argue against him being right up there.

Scholes was, imo, one of the top 5 midfielders of his generation. Consistently top class for a decade and more.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

:aok:

Fair dos mate. They were both fabulous players with differing talents. I would favor Cantona as being the one with more flair and genius while Scholes was as you rightly say consistently a top class player and a worthy choice also.

It can be tricky to compare and contrast.

[Mick O'Rourke]

So many football geniuses in my life time


The Black Pearl was Numero Uno for me.

Edson Arantes do Nascimento,better known as Pele.

The term "football genius" was created for him.


Closely followed by....
William Murdoch Hamilton

The great Ferenc Puskas was no slouch ,either.

[ancient hibee]

The same argument could be made that Pele never achieved nearly as much at club level.

Other than scoring a thousand goals:greengrin

Isn't Pele the only player instrumental in winning World Cups 12 years apart! When someone else does that they can be talked about at the same level.

Players from long ago can only play as things were then.It's silly to say that defenders nowadays are more athletic,so are everybody(except me).Smith and Matthews were brilliant.I saw Matthews in a friendly at Tynecastle when he was 50 and he could still run and cross.Finney was another.Capped on both wings and at centre forward while building up the biggest plumbing business in Preston!

[Tom Hart RIP]

Messi, Maradona and Pele. All equal no 1 spot

[et vireta]

Kenny Garland

[Famous Fiver]

Willie Hamilton.

Now close the thread please.

[Edinburgher]

Probably Maradonna although I haven`t seen a player as devastating as the Brazilian Ronaldo.
My granddad would have said Gordon Smith.

[GreenLake]

Diego Armando Maradona

[ScottB]

It's hard to compare across eras. For example, I'd argue Messi and Ronaldo face players who are certainly far fitter than the average player was decades ago.

[Shrekko]

Other than scoring a thousand goals:greengrin

Isn't Pele the only player instrumental in winning World Cups 12 years apart! When someone else does that they can be talked about at the same level.

Players from long ago can only play as things were then.It's silly to say that defenders nowadays are more athletic,so are everybody(except me).Smith and Matthews were brilliant.I saw Matthews in a friendly at Tynecastle when he was 50 and he could still run and cross.Finney was another.Capped on both wings and at centre forward while building up the biggest plumbing business in Preston!
Always laugh at Pele's supposed 1000 goals! Believe about half were scored in exhibitions, military games and other unofficial matches. He probably counts his Escape to Victory goal!

A lot of older people claim guys like Pele were the best by far, Messi couldn't lace their boots etc., but erm.... how often did people see Pele play apart from a few World Cup matches every 4 years? Pele had little impact in 1962 and 1966 so are folk basing his supposed untouchable status on 10 or so games in 2 World Cups? There was hardly any other football on tv so I'm puzzled about this!

In my era I'd say Maradona is probably the most gifted but his peak was maybe 4/5 years so I'm giving it to Messi. The 2 Ronaldo's are great too- if the Brazilian one had stayed fit for most of his career he may have been the best.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

For me it was Zizou. Growing up watching him in an era when football still had a bit of a physical battle to it and you were allowed to tackle. The way he glided through the game and by opposition players was frightening. Followed by Ronaldo (MK I)

To be honest I don't actually see how you can compare through the eras. Every aspect of football/life has changed from when the likes of Pele played. Nutrition,diet, football, boots, even the pitches are different. The amount of games played now etc so to compare imo is impossible.

Nowadays, you watch Lionel Messi and can't help but feel mesmerised by some of what he does although he has been helped greatly by having the backbone of the best club/international teammates there's been in terms of records and honours

[ancient hibee]

Always laugh at Pele's supposed 1000 goals! Believe about half were scored in exhibitions, military games and other unofficial matches. He probably counts his Escape to Victory goal!

A lot of older people claim guys like Pele were the best by far, Messi couldn't lace their boots etc., but erm.... how often did people see Pele play apart from a few World Cup matches every 4 years? Pele had little impact in 1962 and 1966 so are folk basing his supposed untouchable status on 10 or so games in 2 World Cups? There was hardly any other football on tv so I'm puzzled about this!

In my era I'd say Maradona is probably the most gifted but his peak was maybe 4/5 years so I'm giving it to Messi. The 2 Ronaldo's are great too- if the Brazilian one had stayed fit for most of his career he may have been the best.


Paarticularly n 1966 when Portugal kicked him off the park Pele was always singled out for special treatment.The fact is he was still a world beater in 1970 as he was in 1958.This alone shows the player he was.

[Jonnyboy]

Historically Pele

Currently Messi

[Billy Whizz]

Been fortunate enough to see Maradona and Messi play on a few occasions. However my favourite/best player was Cruyff. I was playing as a teenager when Cruyff was strutting his stuff, and always admired his skill, and he always played for the team

[Shrekko]

Paarticularly n 1966 when Portugal kicked him off the park Pele was always singled out for special treatment.The fact is he was still a world beater in 1970 as he was in 1958.This alone shows the player he was.

No disputing he was a great great player - my only query is why folk think they can say he's better than Messi etc. when they barely saw him play.

Messi himself has already being doing it at the highest level in football- which is the Champions League, not the World Cup anymore, for about 12 years already and still going strong. International football is just not the barometer these days- the top stars have already played about 70 games by the time they get there and folk still criticise Messi for not winning it single handedly.

Different eras are impossible to compare IMO.

[leggeto]

Buffon . Lham Baressi Maldini . Beckenbauer . C Ronaldo Pirlo Zidane Maradona . Messi Pele .
My team
3.1.4.2 formation

[The_Exile]

Going by my own experience as I'm too young to have seen the likes of Pele and Maradona in his pomp:

Ronaldo (Brazillian)
Ronaldo (Portugese)
Messi
Totti
Ortega
Riquelme
Keane
Maldini
Baggio (Roberto)
Batistuta
Cantona
Henry (this hurts as a Spurs fan!)
Rivaldo
Davids (Edgar)
Laudrup (Brian)
Gazza
Zidane

Top 3 without Messi and Ronaldo (Cristiano) would be Totti, Batistuta and Ortega. Totti for me is one of the most underrated geniuses the game has ever seen, and for me is up there with the very very best. His loyalty to Roma has been his achilles heel regarding his somewhat under the radar way in which he's went through his career, but also his very best attribute. Some players just suit a certain club and probably wouldn't replicate it anywhere else.

[Highland_Hibee]

Most people think the best player of their generation was the best player though. "Ohh you think so and so is the best ever? Well let me tell you that such and such before your time was twice the player he was." It's subjective too because how can you compare the great defenders to the great strikers? I'm not a fan but I can't deny that Cristiano Ronaldo is built from the ground up to be the perfect footballer.


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[Scouse Hibee]

Have seen that many great players across different eras that I can't compare due to different eras so I'm stumped.

[northstandhibby]

Most people think the best player of their generation was the best player though. "Ohh you think so and so is the best ever? Well let me tell you that such and such before your time was twice the player he was." It's subjective too because how can you compare the great defenders to the great strikers? I'm not a fan but I can't deny that Cristiano Ronaldo is built from the ground up to be the perfect footballer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Italians of the 70s and 80s had to be the toughest roughest bunch of hard as nails defenders ever with Cladio Gentile my favourite.

[Mibbes Aye]

Have seen that many great players across different eras that I can't compare due to different eras so I'm stumped.

Was thinking that earlier, reflecting on John Robertson (the proper one).

An outstandingly gifted player who won the League with an unfashionable side during a period when the English top-flight was as competitive as its ever been and then twice played a vital role in winning back-to-back European Cups.

I get the point about the game being different, about European football being different, yet I still think his was an incredible personal achievement. And whatever generation, when you re-read his achievements they are remarkable and few will have done the same - yes, you will have players like a Seedorf who have accomplished great things but in a very different way.

Comparisons are maybe pointless but it's worth celebrating greatness and taking the time to put it in context.

[lord bunberry]

Have seen that many great players across different eras that I can't compare due to different eras so I'm stumped.
Stop sitting on the fence man. You must have an idea, even if it changes from day to day :greengrin

[bingo70]

The Italians of the 70s and 80s had to be the toughest roughest bunch of hard as nails defenders ever with Cladio Gentile my favourite.

I can't be bothered looking for it but there's a ridiculous stat about the number of clean sheets Maldini and Baresi had when playing together, it's bonkers.

Someone mentioned earlier that they discounted Maradana as he was a cheat (or words to that effect)....that can go straighten into my footballing pet hates thread. Every time Maradona went on to the park players tried to injure him but Maradonas the one labelled a cheat as he handled the ball once?

[Scouse Hibee]

Stop sitting on the fence man. You must have an idea, even if it changes from day to day :greengrin

Okay I will jump off the fence and go with the player that means more to me than any other King Kenny Dalglish :-)

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Going by my own experience as I'm too young to have seen the likes of Pele and Maradona in his pomp:

Ronaldo (Brazillian)
Ronaldo (Portugese)
Messi
Totti
Ortega
Riquelme
Keane
Maldini
Baggio (Roberto)
Batistuta
Cantona
Henry (this hurts as a Spurs fan!)
Rivaldo
Davids (Edgar)
Laudrup (Brian)
Gazza
Zidane

Top 3 without Messi and Ronaldo (Cristiano) would be Totti, Batistuta and Ortega. Totti for me is one of the most underrated geniuses the game has ever seen, and for me is up there with the very very best. His loyalty to Roma has been his achilles heel regarding his somewhat under the radar way in which he's went through his career, but also his very best attribute. Some players just suit a certain club and probably wouldn't replicate it anywhere else.

Pretty much my era too. As much as these debates irk me (already posted my thoughts earlier) it's good at the same time to be able to reminisce and think about how good certain ex players were. Would add Larsson to the list as well. Proved once he eventually left celtic just how good a player and pro he was.

Good shout on Totti. Such a sexual football player

[Scouse Hibee]

Was thinking that earlier, reflecting on John Robertson (the proper one).

An outstandingly gifted player who won the League with an unfashionable side during a period when the English top-flight was as competitive as its ever been and then twice played a vital role in winning back-to-back European Cups.

I get the point about the game being different, about European football being different, yet I still think his was an incredible personal achievement. And whatever generation, when you re-read his achievements they are remarkable and few will have done the same - yes, you will have players like a Seedorf who have accomplished great things but in a very different way.

Comparisons are maybe pointless but it's worth celebrating greatness and taking the time to put it in context.

Agree a remarkable achievement in the era where the European Cup never left our shores for 5 seasons.

[lord bunberry]

Okay I will jump off the fence and go with the player that means more to me than any other King Kenny Dalglish :-)
That's the game. You're wrong though :greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

That's the game. You're wrong though :greengrin

There is no right answer so I can't be :-)

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Puskas
Maradona
Francescoli
Fontaine (France)
Yashin
Gerd Muller
Ronaldo
Messi...
The list is endless. There are legends out there that we've never heard of, like the great River Plate team of the '30s or never seen play, like Meazza of Inter or many many more. How can the different eras be measured? Impossible to pick!

[Mibbes Aye]

Agree a remarkable achievement in the era where the European Cup never left our shores for 5 seasons.

:agree:

Bookended by a Leeds side who were arguably unlucky against a club side who would feature in the list of all-time greats, Liverpool winning it again and then the ban which stopped Everton making a plausible challenge.

Halcyon days for the then First Division and it wasn't like there were a shortage of decent teams in continental Europe. While the nature of the tournament was different, those teams would have held their own in a modern-day format if it had been in place at the the time.

[heretoday]

Maradona

[lyonhibs]

Depends if greatness is to be defined by stats alone or how the player made you feel.

I go for the latter and on that basis, it's Maradona in 1st with the original Ronaldo closely behind

[JOD]

FWIW Greatest player I have ever seen was Ferenc Pukás and best team was the Magyars of the 1950's.

They would even beaten our Famous Five.

Hail Hail.

[Mr White]

I can't be bothered looking for it but there's a ridiculous stat about the number of clean sheets Maldini and Baresi had when playing together, it's bonkers.

Someone mentioned earlier that they discounted Maradana as he was a cheat (or words to that effect)....that can go straighten into my footballing pet hates thread. Every time Maradona went on to the park players tried to injure him but Maradonas the one labelled a cheat as he handled the ball once?
Handled the ball once....

and also got banned for drugs a few times too. As far as gifted footballers go there's no doubt he's one of (if not) the best ever. As a role model and sportsman however he doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny at all unfortunately.

I realise similar if less extreme accusations could be made against Messi given his tax conviction but to me that's a different level all together compared to taking to the field pumped full of banned stimulants.

[Super_JMcGinn]

[QUOTE=Since90+2;4866134]Xavi was the heartbeat of the greatest club side in history and won everything with Spain when they won 3 major intternational trophies in a row. He was atleast as important to that Barcelona team as Messi was.

I think it's difficult to pick one player from Xavi , Zidane , Messi , C Ronaldo , Maradona and Pele.[/Q

Best

Cruyff

Eusebio are but 3 who could be included in any such list.

[lord bunberry]

There is no right answer so I can't be :-)
True, but you're still wrong :greengrin

[Super_JMcGinn]

Cantona was a great player and I wouldn't argue against him being right up there.

Scholes was, imo, one of the top 5 midfielders of his generation. Consistently top class for a decade and more.

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Bryan Robson was a far better player than Scholes imo.

[Super_JMcGinn]

It's hard to compare across eras. For example, I'd argue Messi and Ronaldo face players who are certainly far fitter than the average player was decades ago.

They are also playing in an era where they are free from the tackle from the back, and from any contact in general. Comparisons are pretty much impossible as a result.

[Super_JMcGinn]

Always laugh at Pele's supposed 1000 goals! Believe about half were scored in exhibitions, military games and other unofficial matches. He probably counts his Escape to Victory goal!

A lot of older people claim guys like Pele were the best by far, Messi couldn't lace their boots etc., but erm.... how often did people see Pele play apart from a few World Cup matches every 4 years? Pele had little impact in 1962 and 1966 so are folk basing his supposed untouchable status on 10 or so games in 2 World Cups? There was hardly any other football on tv so I'm puzzled about this!

In my era I'd say Maradona is probably the most gifted but his peak was maybe 4/5 years so I'm giving it to Messi. The 2 Ronaldo's are great too- if the Brazilian one had stayed fit for most of his career he may have been the best.

So because you didn't see it on tv means it didn't happen ?LOL deary ****** me.

[Scouse Hibee]

True, but you're still wrong :greengrin

No, you are :-)

[ihibs7]

Bryan Robson was a far better player than Scholes imo.

Well he was until Erich Schaedler dislocated his shoulder.


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[Shrekko]

So because you didn't see it on tv means it didn't happen ?LOL deary ****** me.

What on earth are you on about?

[jacomo]

So because you didn't see it on tv means it didn't happen ?LOL deary ****** me.

There's considerable doubt over Pele's claim to have scored 1,000 goals.

It's a very fair point.

Do feel free to tell us all about his time at Santos though!

[Super_JMcGinn]

There's considerable doubt over Pele's claim to have scored 1,000 goals.

It's a very fair point.

Do feel free to tell us all about his time at Santos though!

There may well be doubts about the number of goals he scored, but to doubt his ability on the basis he never saw it on tv is pretty absurd if you ask me. Pele is widely acknowledged as the greatest ever in an era where players could be, and were consistently kicked off the park.

I wonder how well Messrs Ronaldo and Messi would do under such treatment.

[ehf]

Willie Jamieson.

[EHZERO7]

David Gray

Lewis Stevenson, he's won 2 cups. But Sir David as he won us the 'big' cup

[northstandhibby]

Willie Jamieson.

One of the best in the world's retro perm bonces maybe?

https://twitter.com/hibernianretro/status/726712938871033856

[Mon Dieu4]

There may well be doubts about the number of goals he scored, but to doubt his ability on the basis he never saw it on tv is pretty absurd if you ask me. Pele is widely acknowledged as the greatest ever in an era where players could be, and were consistently kicked off the park.

I wonder how well Messrs Ronaldo and Messi would do under such treatment.

I wonder how many goals Messi or Ronaldo would score if they spent their whole careers in the Brazilian and American League

Pele isn't even the best Brazilian player ever, Garrincha is

[Shrekko]

There may well be doubts about the number of goals he scored, but to doubt his ability on the basis he never saw it on tv is pretty absurd if you ask me. Pele is widely acknowledged as the greatest ever in an era where players could be, and were consistently kicked off the park.

I wonder how well Messrs Ronaldo and Messi would do under such treatment.


You're making a prize plum of yourself if you're suggesting I'm doubting Pele's goal tally because they weren't all on tv! Why don't you read the post first before talking about things being absurd? Pots and kettles spring to mind anyway.

Just so you understand...and I'll type slowly here...my point is that some people claim Pele was greater than all the current 'greats' - Messi etc. I'm asking how often they actually saw him play to make that judgement. Do you get it? You can probably watch Messi play 60 games a season right now when you probably saw Pele 5/6 times every 4 years. Is that too confusing?

I also think it's hard to compare 2 players from a different era at the best of times. You still with me Gail?

Edit: Pele's record in official games is 700 odds in 800 odd games. Messi and Ronaldo compare pretty well on that score in a harder league.

[Super_JMcGinn]

I wonder how many goals Messi or Ronaldo would score if they spent their whole careers in the Brazilian and American League

Pele isn't even the best Brazilian player ever, Garrincha is

Aye ok then :aok:

[Super_JMcGinn]

You're making a prize plum of yourself if you're suggesting I'm doubting Pele's goal tally because they weren't all on tv! Why don't you read the post first before talking about things being absurd? Pots and kettles spring to mind anyway.

Just so you understand...and I'll type slowly here...my point is that some people claim Pele was greater than all the current 'greats' - Messi etc. I'm asking how often they actually saw him play to make that judgement. Do you get it? You can probably watch Messi play 60 games a season right now when you probably saw Pele 5/6 times every 4 years. Is that too confusing?

I also think it's hard to compare 2 players from a different era at the best of times. You still with me Gail?

I read your post thanks, and it still reads as absurd as it did first time around. :aok:

[Mon Dieu4]

Aye ok then :aok:

He won two world cups, had two different sized legs and was an alcoholic, if you ask most Brazilians they actually prefer him to Pele and he was more a man of the people than Pele

[Super_JMcGinn]

He won two world cups, had two different sized legs and was an alcoholic, if you ask most Brazilians they actually prefer him to Pele and he was more a man of the people than Pele

Aye ok then :aok:

[Shrekko]

I read your post thanks, and it still reads as absurd as it did first time around. :aok:

Right you are :aok: I've told you already what you are if you think I'm talking about his goals being on tv.

[Shrekko]

He won two world cups, had two different sized legs and was an alcoholic, if you ask most Brazilians they actually prefer him to Pele and he was more a man of the people than Pele

Garrincha is/was more popular in Brazil than Pele but I'm sure Gail knows better.

[Mon Dieu4]

Aye ok then :aok:

Also FIFA the bastions of moral justice have a stiffy for Pele, dunno if it's due to viagra, they had an internet poll to find out who was the player of the century, Maradona got 53% compared to Pele who got 18%, FIFA couldn't have everyone's favourite bampot winning so carried out another vote via their own "football family" Pele won that one like they knew he would so they dished out a joint prize

[CyberSauzee]

#4 God

[Pete]

He won two world cups, had two different sized legs and was an alcoholic, if you ask most Brazilians they actually prefer him to Pele and he was more a man of the people than Pele

I'm glad Garrincha got a mention as he almost seems like the forgotten man when it comes to great Brazilians...and the facts regarding his legs are truly fascinating. Without doubt they helped make him the player he was.

The other side of the coin is that he was apparently a selfish, womanising drunkard who had little regard for anyone but himself, so I'd be careful when it comes to comparing character traits with someone like Pele. There isn't much footage of these greats of the fifties and sixties out there so what are these people basing their opinions on? Reputations?

I'd put Garrincha in the same category as Paul Gascoigne. A mentally flawed great who might never had flourished if these imperfections were missing from their character. An enigma to say the least.

[bingo70]

Handled the ball once....

and also got banned for drugs a few times too. As far as gifted footballers go there's no doubt he's one of (if not) the best ever. As a role model and sportsman however he doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny at all unfortunately.

I realise similar if less extreme accusations could be made against Messi given his tax conviction but to me that's a different level all together compared to taking to the field pumped full of banned stimulants.

They weren't performance enhancing drugs though so IMO should have no relevance in this discussion. It's not about who the best role model was.

[hibs#1]

Okay I will jump off the fence and go with the player that means more to me than any other King Kenny Dalglish :-)

How good was Dalglish?I'm too young to have seen him play and how highly do Liverpool fans rate Gerrard?

[Mr White]

They weren't performance enhancing drugs though so IMO should have no relevance in this discussion. It's not about who the best role model was.

At the 94 world cup he tested positive for five banned performance enhancing drugs (ephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, pseudo-ephedrine, non-pseudo-ephedrine and methylephedrine)


It depends how you define the term greatest player. For me it's more than just skills with the ball. Football is a sport but also a business and an entertainment industry with kids idolising star players and imitating the things they do. For me lifestyle, sportsmanship and conduct (so cheating in Diego's case) all form part of what makes a player great or not. His behaviour counts against him in that regard imo.

[GreenLake]

Going by my own experience as I'm too young to have seen the likes of Pele and Maradona in his pomp:

Ronaldo (Brazillian)
Ronaldo (Portugese)
Messi
Totti
Ortega
Riquelme
Keane
Maldini
Baggio (Roberto)
Batistuta
Cantona
Henry (this hurts as a Spurs fan!)
Rivaldo
Davids (Edgar)
Laudrup (Brian)
Gazza
Zidane

Top 3 without Messi and Ronaldo (Cristiano) would be Totti, Batistuta and Ortega. Totti for me is one of the most underrated geniuses the game has ever seen, and for me is up there with the very very best. His loyalty to Roma has been his achilles heel regarding his somewhat under the radar way in which he's went through his career, but also his very best attribute. Some players just suit a certain club and probably wouldn't replicate it anywhere else.

Great list there and what is great too is that there are so many missing from it.

Haji
Valderrama
Stoichkov
Weah
Gullit
Van Basten
Romario
Platini
McGinn

[bingo70]

At the 94 world cup he tested positive for five banned performance enhancing drugs (ephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, pseudo-ephedrine, non-pseudo-ephedrine and methylephedrine)


It depends how you define the term greatest player. For me it's more than just skills with the ball. Football is a sport but also a business and an entertainment industry with kids idolising star players and imitating the things they do. For me lifestyle, sportsmanship and conduct (so cheating in Diego's case) all form part of what makes a player great or not. His behaviour counts against him in that regard imo.

Interesting, I still think despite the terminology I'm not sure those drugs made him a better player, although they maybe helped prolong his career.

We've obviously got a different view on what makes the greatest player in the world, not saying I'm right or wrong but for me those things don't really come into it.

Fwiw I personally find maradonas clearly flawed character part of the appeal, he's not perfect and outside of the game he was clearly wild but I think all those flaws are probably one of the reasons he's so popular, especially in Argentina. His unofficial biography hand of God was class if you've not read it, much preferred it to his official biography

[Mr White]

Interesting, I still think despite the terminology I'm not sure those drugs made him a better player, although they maybe helped prolong his career.

We've obviously got a different view on what makes the greatest player in the world, not saying I'm right or wrong but for me those things don't really come into it.

Fwiw I personally find maradonas clearly flawed character part of the appeal, he's not perfect and outside of the game he was clearly wild but I think all those flaws are probably one of the reasons he's so popular, especially in Argentina. His unofficial biography hand of God was class if you've not read it, much preferred it to his official biography

:aok: I understand that point of view too, particularly the flawed genius aspect which would also apply to George Best of course.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm glad Garrincha got a mention as he almost seems like the forgotten man when it comes to great Brazilians...and the facts regarding his legs are truly fascinating. Without doubt they helped make him the player he was.

The other side of the coin is that he was apparently a selfish, womanising drunkard who had little regard for anyone but himself, so I'd be careful when it comes to comparing character traits with someone like Pele. There isn't much footage of these greats of the fifties and sixties out there so what are these people basing their opinions on? Reputations?

I'd put Garrincha in the same category as Paul Gascoigne. A mentally flawed great who might never had flourished if these imperfections were missing from their character. An enigma to say the least.

Fair comment. But on the negative side, did he have any character flaws?

[Scouse Hibee]

It's a very valid point that Pele had a fantastic reputation yet personally we could only judge him on a handful of games every four years and constant highlighted repeats of his greatest moments. The likes of Messi we have been able to witness hundreds of games he has been involved in.

[Mibbes Aye]

How good was Dalglish?I'm too young to have seen him play and how highly do Liverpool fans rate Gerrard?

TV was very different then but growing up, I would see Dalglish playing for Scotland and in big televised games for Liverpool. He was the first player we wanted to be down the rec or round the side of the houses with a football. Until the World Cup and then we wanted to be Platini or Rummenigge.

In an age before massive media coverage of players, he was simply in his own league - he was the King.

In terms of ability, it's that old conundrum about comparing it to today. Simply put though, he made it easy for whatever striker he had playing off him, was quite capable of scoring great goals himself and was the heart of an outstanding team that was the best in the world for a period, the same way that Real Madrid were in the late 50s/early 60s or AC were in the late 80s.

[Bostonhibby]

Fair comment. But on the negative side, did he have any character flaws?
His main one was that apparently he was a supporter of the now defunct Glasgow rangers but their supporters clubs wouldn't let him in as they refused to recognize renditions of the billy boys sung in a foreign accent.

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[Mibbes Aye]

His main one was that apparently he was a supporter of the now defunct Glasgow rangers but their supporters clubs wouldn't let him in as they refused to recognize renditions of the billy boys sung in a foreign accent.

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Tragic case for the boy.

He's struggled with personal problems, lived under the shadow of some usurper and seen his team die through their own arrogance and hubris.

It couldn't get any worse really, it would take something ridiculous and unbelievable like his team reinventing themselves as somebody new, getting to Hampden, going 2-1 up, then blowing it.

These things don't happen. It's crazy talk, like a team going to Dens and only needing a draw and then conceding two in the last few minutes to blow a league title. Stuff like that only happens in the movies :agree:

[Scouse Hibee]

How good was Dalglish?I'm too young to have seen him play and how highly do Liverpool fans rate Gerrard?

Dalglish was an absolutely outstanding player who I had the pleasure of watching live from the age of ten. The inspiration in a fantadtic Liverpool team and the man who supplied much of the ammunition for Ian Rush and many other strikers he played with. Not only an oustanding player but a truly great man who's leadership and compassion shone like a beacon as he led us through the aftermath of Hillsborough and is still representing our club. The greatest in my eyes and nothing will ever change that. As for Gerrard he is looked on as a club legend and will always be welcome at Anfield, an inspirational leader who could take games by the scruff of the neck in his prime and drive Liverpool to victory.

[snooky]

Ferenc Puskas is worth a mention.
Okay, he was maybe a little overweight but he still could play a bit :wink:

[Septimus]

Have not got the faintest idea who the greatest player ever was but one thing is sure. He must have played for Hibs.

[Bostonhibby]

Tragic case for the boy.

He's struggled with personal problems, lived under the shadow of some usurper and seen his team die through their own arrogance and hubris.

It couldn't get any worse really, it would take something ridiculous and unbelievable like his team reinventing themselves as somebody new, getting to Hampden, going 2-1 up, then blowing it.

These things don't happen. It's crazy talk, like a team going to Dens and only needing a draw and then conceding two in the last few minutes to blow a league title. Stuff like that only happens in the movies :agree:
Yep, you couldn't make it up.

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[cocteautwin]

Maradona gets my vote.

[WeeRussell]

Messi head and shoulders (along with Paul Hanlon).

Others that spring to mind (I'm too young to have seen Best, Pele, Maradona etc other than old highlights):

Iniesta
Riquelme
Cannavaro
Gerrard
Ronaldo (original and begrudgingly the 'unoriginal' :greengrin)
Robben
Lahm
Zidane
Lewandowski
Ronaldinho
Vieri
Schevchenko (Now noticing it's easy to get carried away when thinking of great strikers)
Aguero
Suarez

Not quite so much on the ability side - but I always had a bit of time for Gattuso (the Italy and AC Milan versions obviously!) and his character. He is up there with Reina, Laudrup and Van Bronkhorst in the 'ex huns I don't mind' list :agree:

[Smartie]

My earliest football memories are around the summer of 1986 so I'm of an age that finds it hard to see past Maradona.

Special mention for Andrea Pirlo - the best player I've seen in the flesh other than David Gray. I've never seen a player live dominate a game like Pirlo could.

[Craig_HFC]

Barry Lavety. No question.