Historical child abuse within football

[LustForLeith]

Apologies as I can't post the link but I've been watching the interview with former footballers who've decided to speak out about being sexually abused as children while they were involved in football and its heartbreaking stuff.

The men who have decided to go public with this deserve all this support they'll get. Its horrible to think that people in a position of power abuse this for the sake of their own sick needs.

They think that this is just the tip of this iceberg when it comes to the revelations. Hers hoping they catch all those responsible and hand the guilty the relevant punishments while making sure it never happens again.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yup. Just seen one ex player interviewed on Sky.

He thought that being abused was the norm and that it was something you had to go through if you wanted to make it in the game.

Frightening stuff with lots more to come to light I think.

[rotherhamrob]

Apologies as I can't post the link but I've been watching the interview with former footballers who've decided to speak out about being sexually abused as children while they were involved in football and its heartbreaking stuff.

The men who have decided to go public with this deserve all this support they'll get. Its horrible to think that people in a position of power abuse this for the sake of their own sick needs.

They think that this is just the tip of this iceberg when it comes to the revelations. Hers hoping they catch all those responsible and hand the guilty the relevant punishments while making sure it never happens again.

It makes my blood boil,not only the actions of the paedophile but also the pathetic sentences handed out to them.there are too many do gooders who think that these beasts can be cured,they can't ,as far as I'm concerned it should be 1 strike and out,perhaps if the sentence was for a substantial amount of time it may deter them.

[beensaidbefore]

It makes my blood boil,not only the actions of the paedophile but also the pathetic sentences handed out to them.there are too many do gooders who think that these beasts can be cured,they can't ,as far as I'm concerned it should be 1 strike and out,perhaps if the sentence was for a substantial amount of time it may deter them.

A severe kicking should be included too. Some people just deserve it, kiddy fiddlers fall firmly into that bracket.

[1two]

I'm not trying to compare this to the Jimmy Saville case here but On the face of it this might be worse.
Taking young boys and making out this is how they'll make it further in their football careers... I can't think of a word to describe how disgusting and deplorable it is.

[beensaidbefore]

I'm not trying to compare this to the Jimmy Saville case here but On the face of it this might be worse.
Taking young boys and making out this is how they'll make it further in their football careers... I can't think of a word to describe how disgusting and deplorable it is.

Guy said on the news last night that the coach guy got the t al trust of the parents and even had the boys staying over at his house. Parents were over the moon that the coach saw 'potential' in their boys! Horrific and as you say could be thousands of boys/men affected over the years.

[theonlywayisup]

Words fail me!! There are some sick people out there!!

I really hope those that have done wrong are found and brought to justice.

Are there not checks put in place to ensure that those who work with children are not a threat to children?

[LustForLeith]

Words fail me!! There are some sick people out there!!

I really hope those that have done wrong are found and brought to justice.

Are there not checks put in place to ensure that those who work with children are not a threat to children?

I think the thing with checks is they'll only flag people who've been caught.

It s really strict nowadays with PVG/disclosure checks.

[Scouse Hibee]

Words fail me!! There are some sick people out there!!

I really hope those that have done wrong are found and brought to justice.

Are there not checks put in place to ensure that those who work with children are not a threat to children?

You can carry out all the background checks you like,totally useless if the offender has never been previously caught.

[truehibernian]

You can carry out all the background checks you like,totally useless if the offender has never been previously caught.

Totally agree SH - this will be the tip of the iceberg - and as you rightly point out, many offenders will have no previous criminal history - can see this story going down the route of Yewtree - devastating for the victims - however, and please don't think I'm detracting from the seriousness, it's funny how the media didn't mention one of the player's recent dismissal from his job (equally as bad) - only saying that because media pick their moments.

[truehibernian]

Why? It's an accepted fact that child abuse went on at Celtic in the past.

Defamation 100% - free legal advice on .net

[BroxburnHibee]

Hate saying this but these sick b******* will target anywhere that gets them access to children.

[Billy Whizz]

Defamation 100% - free legal advice on .net

A Celtic boys club coach was jailed a bit back, for abusing young players

[Frank Moon]

In the Victoria Derbyshire interview the bit that hit home most for me was the coach taking 7 lads to Gran Canaria and having one each night. Absolutely disgusting. As a parent it's hard to imagine how you'd deal with that.

[southsider]

A Celtic boys club coach was jailed a bit back, for abusing young players
Aye but he only got 2 years. Would have been out in a year. Abused Alan Brazil.

[Green_one]

Defamation 100% - free legal advice on .net

The employees of a number of clubs have been found guilty of abuse. In addition it is becoming clear that there are more instances of victims being legally silenced following abuse. Now we are about to see other clubs dragged into the picture. We cannot leave it to one brave man to expose such an issue.

[1two]

it's funny how the media didn't mention one of the player's recent dismissal from his job (equally as bad) - only saying that because media pick their moments.

Really? Who and what?

[21.05.2016]

Absolutely disgusting that these depraved monsters abuse their position of trust and pray on vulnerable kids. Watching the interviews with the ex players who have came forward and bravely spoke up was heartbreaking, can't even imagine what they went through and have since had to live with. Hopefully this inspires other victims to come forward and know they aren't alone. My guess is that there are many out there.

These vile, disgusting monsters need locked up and the key thrown away.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Disgusting. Unfortunately it appears that this "culture" was rife through a certain era. Sincerely hope that anyone affected speak out regardless of how "highly regarded" someone is held within the game and that they get all the support needed. Hammer the **** involved in this sickening act. Basturds.

One thing that disappointed me today was sticking on soccer Saturday. A program almost all of us are aware of and appreciate it's place as the biggest football show. I was hoping they'd open the show with talking about it and showing support for the players affected. That would show everyone they are safe to come out and talk about what happened but not a word on it, instead it was business as usual and talking about the premier league. A program that has such a high standing in the game could go a long way to supporting former colleagues and friends

[blackpoolhibs]

Disgusting. Unfortunately it appears that this "culture" was rife through a certain era. Sincerely hope that anyone affected speak out regardless of how "highly regarded" someone is held within the game and that they get all the support needed. Hammer the **** involved in this sickening act. Basturds.

One thing that disappointed me today was sticking on soccer Saturday. A program almost all of us are aware of and appreciate it's place as the biggest football show. I was hoping they'd open the show with talking about it and showing support for the players affected. That would show everyone they are safe to come out and talk about what happened but not a word on it, instead it was business as usual and talking about the premier league. A program that has such a high standing in the game could go a long way to supporting former colleagues and friends

To be honest i have seen it mentioned on numerous programmes over the last few days, i was glad it was not mentioned on soccer saturday.

There has been good coverage of this across the board sport and news, i personally think they had no need to go into it today on the show.

I'm not really sure just what hearing Charlie Nicholas or Paul Merson's views would change or even inform me anymore on this situation?

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

To be honest i have seen it mentioned on numerous programmes over the last few days, i was glad it was not mentioned on soccer saturday.

There has been good coverage of this across the board sport and news, i personally think they had no need to go into it today on the show.

I'm not really sure just what hearing Charlie Nicholas or Paul Merson's views would change or even inform me anymore on this situation?

It's all fine and well hearing jim white/Natalie sawyer or whoever talking about it but have they been in that environment?

Having someone who you've shared a dressing room or a football pitch with imo would give anyone in that position a bit of extra support they may need to come out and speak. This is massive and anyway who is in a position where they can potentially support victims even by having a 1 minute chat would be great for some of the guys

[blackpoolhibs]

It's all fine and well hearing jim white/Natalie sawyer or whoever talking about it but have they been in that environment?

Having someone who you've shared a dressing room or a football pitch with imo would give anyone in that position a bit of extra support they may need to come out and speak. This is massive and anyway who is in a position where they can potentially support victims even by having a 1 minute chat would be great for some of the guys

I never mentioned any of those you talk of, i have seen many players speak about this, from league 2 players to Wayne Rooney.

How much more will Charlie Nicholas tell me or inform me that i don't already know? I'm pretty sure too, that now the cat is out the bag, a one minute chat on soccer saturday would be neither here nor there.

I actually know Paul Stewart who is a complete bawbag, but never deserved what he say's happened to him, and if there are a lot more like him, a few minutes spoken on soccer saturday won't make a difference at all.

They never mentioned it either before the Chelsea match thats on now, but it will be on many programmes over the coming weeks, it is a huge story but it cant be spoken about on every football show.

[ihibs7]

I got a harrowing first hand account -from a dad - about a certain 80s coach who ended up at the old Rangers.

Can you defame the dead, i.e. The old Rangers?


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[Scorrie]

I got a harrowing first hand account -from a dad - about a certain 80s coach who ended up at the old Rangers.

Can you defame the dead, i.e. The old Rangers?


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Sounds like this could be a matter for the police / SFA helpline that's been set up to deal with this to be honest?

[Hibrandenburg]

The problem will never go away and where kids are you'll always find pedophiles. Paradoxically they're also normally otherwise nice people, they have to be otherwise we wouldn't trust them with our kids. The only defense is to educate your children to the fact that these monsters exist and ensure they know how to expose them and that no matter what it's okay to do so.

[Pretty Boy]

It seems since the death of Saville the wall of silence has started to be broken down regarding what seems a particularly despicable era in British society.

There was always a belief that Saville himself had dirt on influential and so called important people and was never exposed for that reason. The short length of time between his death and his exposure lends weight to that imo.

Whatever the reasons it's good, for lack of a better word, to see these despicable individuals publicly named and shamed. As said above many got away with their crimes for years by hiding in plain sight with a public image and personality the kept their depravity hidden.

[Cosmic Truth]

I'm not trying to compare this to the Jimmy Saville case here but On the face of it this might be worse.
Taking young boys and making out this is how they'll make it further in their football careers... I can't think of a word to describe how disgusting and deplorable it is.

These *******s prey on youngster hopes and dreams. I remember a good few years ago there was a story in the papers about the boss of a model agency who was tempting young girls with promises of a career as a model, if they gave him sexual favours.

This latest scandal will, in my opinion, be the tip of the iceberg. Wherever children, and teenagers, are, whether it's football, swimming, tennis, rugby, the cubs/scouts BB etc, there will be perverts looking to ingratiate themselves with them. Fortunately, times have changed, and the old you don't want a scandal attitude seems to be a thing of the past. I hope more of these *******s are caught. There will surely be a few who are worried at the moment?

[Carheenlea]

It's all sorted now - 'The Crafty Cockney' has the answer..:rolleyes:

http://i64.tinypic.com/21v5tw.jpg

[PeeJay]

Yet another shocking revelation, I find myself wondering if similar "things" are happening here in Germany amongst the huge number of clubs involved in youth work - I doubt that this is solely a "British society" problem? The answer surely has to therefore be yes; is it only a matter of time before news of a similar scandal here breaks? Must admit I find it difficult myself to believe that this can happen without parents, youth club colleagues and so on not "noticing" at some point - is that too naive? Are the culprits so good at covering up their actions, or are we, as a society, simply not interested or wary enough in how our kids are being looked after?

[Callyballybe]

It's all sorted now - 'The Crafty Cockney' has the answer..:rolleyes:

http://i64.tinypic.com/21v5tw.jpg

What an absolute cretin of a human being. Has apparently started saying that those footballers who were victims of child abuse are wimps. An extremely narrow minded view, one that should warrant the removal of his MBE.

[Oscar T Grouch]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/28/barry-bennell-hospital

[ancient hibee]

It seems since the death of Saville the wall of silence has started to be broken down regarding what seems a particularly despicable era in British society.

There was always a belief that Saville himself had dirt on influential and so called important people and was never exposed for that reason. The short length of time between his death and his exposure lends weight to that imo.

Whatever the reasons it's good, for lack of a better word, to see these despicable individuals publicly named and shamed. As said above many got away with their crimes for years by hiding in plain sight with a public image and personality the kept their depravity hidden.

Its wrong to say that there's been a wall of silence over this.Bennell's been jailed three times.It's in fact been well known but the FA decided to do Sweet FA about it-that's the disgrace.

[jacomo]

Its wrong to say that there's been a wall of silence over this.Bennell's been jailed three times.It's in fact been well known but the FA decided to do Sweet FA about it-that's the disgrace.


Good point, overlooked by many (including the BBC).

These are not, as wrongly reported, allegations of abuse. Bennell has been jailed both here and in the USA - although there's a good argument that he should have been jailed for longer.

[Betty Boop]

Police Scotland now investigating allegations.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-11-29/police-scotland-receives-several-football-sex-abuse-calls/

[The Tubs]

Reading this article http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38157253 made me feel that these guys coming forward are absolute heroes that will hopefully help others to feel more comfortable coming forward to report abuse.

[magpie1892]

Police Scotland now investigating allegations.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-11-29/police-scotland-receives-several-football-sex-abuse-calls/

If I were a certain ex-Rangers (1872-2012) captain, I'd be absolutely bricking it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If I were a certain ex-Rangers (1872-2012) captain, I'd be absolutely bricking it.

Is that the inside info? I was told that the Daily Record had the story at the time but were paid off so it wasn't printed.

[magpie1892]

Is that the inside info? I was told that the Daily Record had the story at the time but were paid off so it wasn't printed.

Everyone had the story. One lad's parents were paid off, and for added measure, were threatened by RFC.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Everyone had the story. One lad's parents were paid off, and for added measure, were threatened by RFC.

Hopefully comes out soon then.

[blackpoolhibs]

Everyone had the story. One lad's parents were paid off, and for added measure, were threatened by RFC.

Thats just amazing, and shows how frightened the written media in Scotland are of this lot.

Surely to god this will come out now, it must be a lot easier to leak this kind of news anonymously these days?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Everyone had the story. One lad's parents were paid off, and for added measure, were threatened by RFC.

Did Rangers pay the papers off or was it a super injunction?

[magpie1892]

Hopefully comes out soon then.

Well, we'd need the trainee footballer/s concerned to make an official complaint, otherwise nothing will happen.

Would be ironic in the extreme if RFC found themselves at the centre of an investigation for noncing, after their decades of taunting Celtc for the same.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Well, we'd need the trainee footballer/s concerned to make an official complaint, otherwise nothing will happen.

Would be ironic in the extreme if RFC found themselves at the centre of an investigation for noncing, after their decades of taunting Celtc for the same.

Big Walt knew...

[magpie1892]

Thats just amazing, and shows how frightened the written media in Scotland are of this lot.

Surely to god this will come out now, it must be a lot easier to leak this kind of news anonymously these days?

Like I say - no complaint, no action. It's obviously a personal choice for the individual/s involved. I know the very disturbing details of one particular trainee who was sexually abused by a Rangers 'legend', apparently there was more than one person abused.


Did Rangers pay the papers off or was it a super injunction?

I don't think you can get a super-injunction to gag the press from reporting on a serious sexual crime, but I'm no lawyer.

[Pretty Boy]

Guys just a friendly warning that absolutely no names are to be posted on here regardless of how sure you are of the truth of the story.

[magpie1892]

Guys just a friendly warning that absolutely no names are to be posted on here regardless of how sure you are of the truth of the story.

I certainly won't do that.

We're obviously all talking about the same person anyhow - hence the lack of enquiry as to the identity of the individual.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Guys just a friendly warning that absolutely no names are to be posted on here regardless of how sure you are of the truth of the story.

:aok:

[Skol]

Its entirely possible that alleged abusers were themselves abused...................................

[Scott Allan Key]

Everyone had the story. One lad's parents were paid off, and for added measure, were threatened by RFC.

I thought I couldn't hate them any more but this just makes sick to the stomach, but being a football mictocosm of the Scottish establishment, it doesn't surprise me. Let's hope any criminal proceedings aren't presided over by certain judges with wistful memories of their pubic school days. Heavy sentences and justice against Scottish football figures required for the sake of the victims and their families. I hope some have the courage to come forward and police bring charges against perpetrators and those trying to pervert course of justice. Not holding my breath though.

Am I the only one thinking Scottish football is in the doldrums because we have put up with this rotten, criminal entity for too long. To hell with them.

[jacomo]

Its entirely possible that alleged abusers were themselves abused...................................


:agree:

I think it's often said to be the most common reason someone abuses kids.

Obviously lots of pretty shocking stuff is coming to light, but in this febrile atmosphere it's worth remembering that some of these guys will have had pretty f***** up childhoods themselves.

[biggie1875]

:agree:

I think it's often said to be the most common reason someone abuses kids.

Obviously lots of pretty shocking stuff is coming to light, but in this febrile atmosphere it's worth remembering that some of these guys will have had pretty f***** up childhoods themselves.

Regardless of the rough upbringing if you were abused as a child the last thing you would do / want to do is inflict the same pain and suffering on some other poor kid 😰

[jacomo]

Regardless of the rough upbringing if you were abused as a child the last thing you would do / want to do is inflict the same pain and suffering on some other poor kid 😰


I think it's a lot more messed up than that.

But yes, obviously it is horrendous that such a thing can happen.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Regardless of the rough upbringing if you were abused as a child the last thing you would do / want to do is inflict the same pain and suffering on some other poor kid 😰

The evidence is there to show that almost all abusers suffered abuse themselves. That doesn't mean all abused kids go on to become abusers otherwise there would be way more abusers out there. It's actually a really interesting part of psychology and can be extended to other groups like serial killers, almost all of whom have a history of either or both physical and sexual abuse in their childhood.

[Betty Boop]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/filmmaker-who-exposed-english-football-9354941

[superfurryhibby]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/filmmaker-who-exposed-english-football-9354941

Can I be the first to say gonnae no dae that.

[Betty Boop]

350 victims have came forward in England, tip of the iceberg.

[BullsCloseHibs]

I see Chelsea are now gonna be subject to an historical case.

Wonder if The Rangers will choose to throw in some 'songs' for them - like they do for Celtic?

Hmmm......

[blackpoolhibs]

One of my favorite games ever was being behind the goals in the pishing rain when we beat England 1-0 at Hampden, not so much now.

[Scott Allan Key]

One of my favorite games ever was being behind the goals in the pishing rain when we beat England 1-0 at Hampden, not so much now.

*Cough*

[ano hibby]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/261736/sacked-gers-coach-gordon-neely-molested-boys-at-hibs-youth-training-camps-for-not-playing-well-says-ex-player/

I'm sure he'll be known to some on here.

[Peevemor]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/261736/sacked-gers-coach-gordon-neely-molested-boys-at-hibs-youth-training-camps-for-not-playing-well-says-ex-player/

I'm sure he'll be known to some on here.

I remember that he was highly rated. It was seen as great business when we poached him from Dundee Utd, then the huns did the same to us.

[JimBHibees]

Interesting juxtaposition of Rangers dealing with it in relation to Celtic. The story about Dalguise would there not have been other adults on these trips or would he be there on his jack with the players.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I can remember going to Dalguise Castle with Hutchy at the start of the 80's when GN was there, not aware of any shenanigans taking place though.

[ihibs7]

I don't really believe that the papers didn't know about this 26 years ago. I wonder why the old Rangers hushed it up, and I wonder why the police if they were informed by Rangers didn't take any action.

The sickening abuse is only part of the story - how the perpetrator came to get protection from prosecution is as deeply troubling.


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[CropleyWasGod]

I don't really believe that the papers didn't know about this 26 years ago. I wonder why the old Rangers hushed it up, and I wonder why the police if they were informed by Rangers didn't take any action.

The sickening abuse is only part of the story - how the perpetrator came to get protection from prosecution is as deeply troubling.


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And, it has to be said, did Hibs have any knowledge of it?

[Peevemor]

And, it has to be said, did Hibs have any knowledge of it?

It says in the story that it wasn't reported to the club.​

[R'Albin]

And, it has to be said, did Hibs have any knowledge of it?

That was my main worry reading it. Apparently the guy had a bit of a reputation prior to joining us, although that doesn't suggest that anyone at the club knew for certain.

[ihibs7]

And, it has to be said, did Hibs have any knowledge of it?

They likely did after 1990 when the highly rated coach disappeared without a trace.

This all happened prior to the club changing hands too.


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[CropleyWasGod]

It says in the story that it wasn't reported to the club.​

It's the DR :greengrin

The correct thing to do, IMO, would be to establish that for certain.... just as the more responsible clubs down South are doing, conduct a thorough investigation.

For all we know, there is somebody out there who's reading that piece and saying "hold on, I did say something to...."

[CropleyWasGod]

They likely did after 1990 when the highly rated coach disappeared without a trace.

This all happened prior to the club changing hands too.


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... that complicates things, of course.

As does the fact that the alleged perpetrator isn't around any more. Just as in the Savile case, he's not able to defend himself. Does that make it easier for the alleged victims, or harder?

[ihibs7]

... that complicates things, of course.

As does the fact that the alleged perpetrator isn't around any more. Just as in the Savile case, he's not able to defend himself. Does that make it easier for the alleged victims, or harder?

An Ibrox spokesman said: “Rangers is now aware of an alleged incident involving an individual who worked very briefly for the club more than 25 years ago.

“It’s understood the individual was dismissed immediately and that the police were informed.”

I agree with you about him not being around anymore to defend himself. I wonder what kind of resolution is now possible. The rangers have lined up their position, I don't think it's a position that is reasonable or decent. I'd also venture given what I posted above re GN seeing as he's now identified, that rangers aren't being entirely honest - possibly in their defence, because no one involved in what happened in 1990 is still with the club.


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[R'Albin]

I'm also interested to know if this was the case that MagpieHibs was referring to.

[Smartie]

I don't think any club should be making any sweeping statements until the matter has been very thoroughly investigated.

There's something I don't like about this trial by media. It seems to be that anyone can come out and say anything about dead men and football clubs without any sort of comeback.

I hope that anyone found guilty of child abuse is very heavily punished and any club (including our own) who covered anything up gets the book thrown at them - there must be zero tolerance of any of this kind of thing.

But the right way to get it sorted is by speaking to the police, not the papers.

[sleeping giant]

I'm also interested to know if this was the case that MagpieHibs was referring to.

I don't think so.

The one you are talking about was supposed to be a Hun legend.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I'm also interested to know if this was the case that MagpieHibs was referring to.

Tried to PM you but your inbox is full.

[R'Albin]

Tried to PM you but your inbox is full.

I'll de-clutter when I'm home :aok:

[where'stheslope]

When we get things like this cropping up about abuse or whatever, I sometimes think as supporters we should not decry everyone else unless were sure of what is in our own locker!!!
To many times we jump on a bit of banter at the time, then later find out were not as pure as we thought, and everyone is just against us for bringing it up!!!!
All these people are despicable and are everywhere, so until it all comes out we should be quite and stop trying to score points from others until we know that we are not involved and be thankful if we are not.

[Ilovehibs]

When we get things like this cropping up about abuse or whatever, I sometimes think as supporters we should not decry everyone else unless were sure of what is in our own locker!!!
To many times we jump on a bit of banter at the time, then later find out were not as pure as we thought, and everyone is just against us for bringing it up!!!!
All these people are despicable and are everywhere, so until it all comes out we should be quite and stop trying to score points from others until we know that we are not involved and be thankful if we are not.

Correct.

[21.05.2016]

Now that the ball is rolling, I think there will be absolutely loads of stories emerging. The ex-footballers that first came forward have said that this could be even bigger than the Saville scandal.

[Pretty Boy]

If nothing else it will hopefully put an end to child abuse being used as a petty point scoring excercise by fans.

[blackpoolhibs]

I knew him when i was a boy, although i cant remember if it was with Edina Hibs or somewhere else? He seemed a very driven guy from my vague memory of him, but this was early to middle 70's.

[NAE NOOKIE]

When we get things like this cropping up about abuse or whatever, I sometimes think as supporters we should not decry everyone else unless were sure of what is in our own locker!!!
To many times we jump on a bit of banter at the time, then later find out were not as pure as we thought, and everyone is just against us for bringing it up!!!!
All these people are despicable and are everywhere, so until it all comes out we should be quite and stop trying to score points from others until we know that we are not involved and be thankful if we are not.

Absolutely this .... and even if Hibs don't end up being named this is NOT a subject to use for terracing banter or as a stick to beat opposition clubs or fans with, to do so would be utterly disrespectful to the victims in my opinion.

[ancient hibee]

An Ibrox spokesman said: “Rangers is now aware of an alleged incident involving an individual who worked very briefly for the club more than 25 years ago.

“It’s understood the individual was dismissed immediately and that the police were informed.”

I agree with you about him not being around anymore to defend himself. I wonder what kind of resolution is now possible. The rangers have lined up their position, I don't think it's a position that is reasonable or decent. I'd also venture given what I posted above re GN seeing as he's now identified, that rangers aren't being entirely honest - possibly in their defence, because no one involved in what happened in 1990 is still with the club.


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Don't really understand your post Rangers have just saidwhat they think happened 25 years ago.What is unreasonable or indecent about that?

[21.05.2016]

Absolutely this .... and even if Hibs don't end up being named this is NOT a subject to use for terracing banter or as a stick to beat opposition clubs or fans with, to do so would be utterly disrespectful to the victims in my opinion.

Absolutely. Nothing funny about this at all and how can we expect more victims to come forward if the whole thing starts getting mocked and made fun out of. The football world needs to come together with this and make sure we encourage more victims to be brave and speak up as well as make sure these monsters (if still alive) are caught and brought to justice.

[superfurryhibby]

The publicity given to these stories is encouraging other men to come and name their childhood abusers. Given the circumstances, the rights of the men accused are secondary. If they were still alive then I'm sure the whole situation changes in terms of public discussion.

Sadly this is likely to prove a tip of the iceberg story and we should probably brace ourselves for much worse.

As someone who was brought up football daft and spent so many years playing for teams, man and boy, it really makes feel saddened and sickened to know that these depraved *******s had such easy access children. The whole thing made even worse by the inaction when stories did emerge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38208329

[ihibs7]

Don't really understand your post Rangers have just saidwhat they think happened 25 years ago.What is unreasonable or indecent about that?

Rangers is now aware of an incident that happened at Rangers? Presumably as the press uncovers more incidents Rangers will become aware of them too.

An individual was briefly employed? For 4 years?!?!

I strongly suspect that Rangers in collusion with the press covered this up 25 years ago, they are compounding that mistake now by not being open and transparent with what they know.

Smith & Souness unavailable for comment?

It feels like Rangers are trying to shut this story down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Betty Boop]

Rangers is now aware of an incident that happened at Rangers? Presumably as the press uncovers more incidents Rangers will become aware of them too.

An individual was briefly employed? For 4 years?!?!

I strongly suspect that Rangers in collusion with the press covered this up 25 years ago, they are compounding that mistake now by not being open and transparent with what they know.

Smith & Souness unavailable for comment?

It feels like Rangers are trying to shut this story down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you not read they reported the matter to the Police ?

[overdrive]

Did you not read they reported the matter to the Police ?

I would also imagine they are under no obligation as an entity to do anything now given it was a different company that employed him.

[ihibs7]

Re-reading the sun stories there's two sources who were both at rangers under neely. As somebody has mentioned above trial by media isn't a great outcome for anyone here, especially when the media seems to have its own agenda.


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[ihibs7]

Did you not read they reported the matter to the Police ?

The individual was dismissed and the police were informed - reads to me like they told the victims dad, who was in the police.


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[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The individual was dismissed and the police were informed - reads to me like they told the victims dad, who was in the police.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Apparently the SFA failed to act when they received repprts of a coach and linesman perpetrating child abuse.

I fear this could be a horrible story for anyone with an interest in scottish fitba as we confront the game's collusion in this.

[ancient hibee]

The individual was dismissed and the police were informed - reads to me like they told the victims dad, who was in the police.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You seem a bit confused.It was his father that told Rangers.They sacked the guy and told the police.What more could they have done?

[superfurryhibby]

Re-reading the sun stories there's two sources who were both at rangers under neely. As somebody has mentioned above trial by media isn't a great outcome for anyone here, especially when the media seems to have its own agenda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't read the **** but the story on the BBC focuses on Neely at Hibs. The photo of him with the squad makes for very uncomfortable viewing.

[greenlex]

Neely coached me in the mid 70s. I have to say there wee no shenanigans or even rumours st the time. Certainly never attempted anything with me. To be fair I was a big ****** even at that age and we didn't see eye to eye on anything and argued on a regular basis before I moved on. He did **** up my registration papers and deliberately put me out the game for 6 months. Never took to him.

[Cosmic Truth]

An Ibrox spokesman said: “Rangers is now aware of an alleged incident involving an individual who worked very briefly for the club more than 25 years ago.

“It’s understood the individual was dismissed immediately and that the police were informed.”

I agree with you about him not being around anymore to defend himself. I wonder what kind of resolution is now possible. The rangers have lined up their position, I don't think it's a position that is reasonable or decent. I'd also venture given what I posted above re GN seeing as he's now identified, that rangers aren't being entirely honest - possibly in their defence, because no one involved in what happened in 1990 is still with the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now aware? What happened between 1990, and 2016? Did everyone have their memories erased?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Now aware? What happened between 1990, and 2016? Did everyone have their memories erased?

Different club.

[mjhibby]

Absolutely this .... and even if Hibs don't end up being named this is NOT a subject to use for terracing banter or as a stick to beat opposition clubs or fans with, to do so would be utterly disrespectful to the victims in my opinion.

Totally agree. It's horrifying to think that these so called coaches could ruin so many lives. The least we can do is support the victims in any way possible and making sure we don't points score over other clubs is a start. As has been said all clubs need to ensure that it is not happening now and have procedures in place to ensure as much as is humanly possible that it doesn't happen again. My heart goes out to every victim and the immense bravery they have shown. I would like to see all the football Associations be more proactive in firstly dealing with past cases and then making sure that everybody stays vigilant and it's not all forgotten about it a few months. We owe that much to every youngster who has suffered.

[Hibs07p]

My memory might be playing tricks, but I'm pretty sure GN and an older coach with the initials of PO, coached Links Utd in the early 70's. Played their home games in the Links, and their changing rooms / clubhouse was above a garage / coachworks, right next to Ma Aitkens. I was around 13 / 14 at the time and I'm also pretty sure there was a couple of reasonable high profile 15 / 16 year olds playing for them ready to sign for senior clubs, which they did. I'm deliberately not naming names as I have already stated mymemory could be playing tricks and I don't want to cause any unneccessary embarassment. We had been getting coached at the old St Anthony's at the bottom of Lochend Road, by PO, I personally never played for Links United and I don't think I was connected to them for any great length of time as I think they only had the one age group. I can't say I ever heard anything untoward going on.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

[CropleyWasGod]

Now aware? What happened between 1990, and 2016? Did everyone have their memories erased?
It's very unlikely that anyone with any knowledge or authority would still be there 26 years later.

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[Leith Green]

I have to say how much this makes you think , especially when it involves your own club and probably local children. It makes you realise how real and disturbing these acts are and how it must damage families and causeunimaginable pain as well as ruining their lives.

The stand out thing for me is how we as football fans behave and act when it comes to these horrible and horrific events becoming public knowledge. I have to admit to now being embarrassed by having sung songs at tynecastle about craig thomson and jimmy saville etc in the past. At the end of the day and as a father myself that kind of singing and chanting is not on and has to be stopped as well..

[superfurryhibby]

Absolutely this .... and even if Hibs don't end up being named this is NOT a subject to use for terracing banter or as a stick to beat opposition clubs or fans with, to do so would be utterly disrespectful to the victims in my opinion.

Totally agree with this. Hopefully the "banter" about Savilles and the like will disappear from here.

Don't want to keep re-emphasising this but Hibs are already named. The BBC articles focus on Neely's time with Hibs and the guy who discloses abuse was part of the Hibs youth set up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38208329

[magpie1892]

I'm also interested to know if this was the case that MagpieHibs was referring to.

If you mean me, then no, it's not the one I was talking about. I was referring to a hun 'legend' who had been interfering with children.

johnjamessite has been brave/foolhardy and actually named the player in question.

[ihibs7]

You seem a bit confused.It was his father that told Rangers.They sacked the guy and told the police.What more could they have done?

I'm not confused, I just think that Rangers statement is deliberately evasive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

My memory might be playing tricks, but I'm pretty sure GN and an older coach with the initials of PO, coached Links Utd in the early 70's. Played their home games in the Links, and their changing rooms / clubhouse was above a garage / coachworks, right next to Ma Aitkens. I was around 13 / 14 at the time and I'm also pretty sure there was a couple of reasonable high profile 15 / 16 year olds playing for them ready to sign for senior clubs, which they did. I'm deliberately not naming names as I have already stated mymemory could be playing tricks and I don't want to cause any unneccessary embarassment. We had been getting coached at the old St Anthony's at the bottom of Lochend Road, by PO, I personally never played for Links United and I don't think I was connected to them for any great length of time as I think they only had the one age group. I can't say I ever heard anything untoward going on.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

I think you are right about him being at links united, that's where i know him from and not edina hibs. Was one of those high profile names you were thinking about someone who signed for Hearts?

There was another manager there, was it Peter O'neil?

[Smartie]

I'm not confused, I just think that Rangers statement is deliberately evasive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Rangers statement is pretty defensive, as we have come to expect from them.

But to be fair to them in this instance, they see themselves being linked in the press with a thoroughly unsavoury subject and if what they have said so far is true, they did nothing other than act and behave in an entirely appropriate manner at the time.

I'm sure it will all come out in the wash, but it will be very interesting to see how clubs handled complaints being raised with them. Obviously Hibs are being regularly named in these articles - rather than the ultra-defensive Rangers-esque approach, I hope we take a slightly different stance i.e rather than say "nowt to do with us" promise to co-operate fully with any enquiry or criminal investigation, stress and stress our zero tolerance approach to child abuse.

[Hibs07p]

I think you are right about him being at links united, that's where i know him from and not edina hibs. Was one of those high profile names you were thinking about someone who signed for Hearts?

There was another manager there, was it Peter O'neil?

I think 2 of them signed for Hearts and Peter O'Neil was the other manager.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

[Wee Effen Bee]

I first started playing for a team when I was about 9 - does anyone remember the five a sides at Craigroyston Community High School pitches in the early 70s? There were literally dozens of wee teams and at least one Pilton Sporting Club age group grew from that. The Sharks, The Lions, The Barracudas, and so on, played on Saturday mornings. There were loads of adults giving up their own time to ref and look after the laddies. I then played for various school and amateur teams well into my forties and played for and worked with many coaches. At no point in all those years was I aware of any indecent goings on.
There obviously was stuff happening somewhere at the time, as it is inherent throughout society, but I just didn't know of anyone being targeted. I have always been uncomfortable with the 'Saville-type' jibes aimed at Hearts though (on this board and at matches) and would never subscribe to using that type of insult towards them or anyone else. We should all rally against the abusers and remember they could have been, and probably still are, at any club. I'm just in awe of the bravery of those affected and hope they receive some justice and/or closure.

[Cosmic Truth]

The Rangers statement is pretty defensive, as we have come to expect from them.

But to be fair to them in this instance, they see themselves being linked in the press with a thoroughly unsavoury subject and if what they have said so far is true, they did nothing other than act and behave in an entirely appropriate manner at the time.

I'm sure it will all come out in the wash, but it will be very interesting to see how clubs handled complaints being raised with them. Obviously Hibs are being regularly named in these articles - rather than the ultra-defensive Rangers-esque approach, I hope we take a slightly different stance i.e rather than say "nowt to do with us" promise to co-operate fully with any enquiry or criminal investigation, stress and stress our zero tolerance approach to child abuse.

I agree. If what they have said is true, then they have done all that they can. Personally, I have my doubts that everything they have said in their statement is true, but I doubt we'll ever really know.

[hibbymick]

I knew him when i was a boy, although i cant remember if it was with Edina Hibs or somewhere else? He seemed a very driven guy from my vague memory of him, but this was early to middle 70's.

Were you the orange peeler ? :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-celtic-coach-jim-mccafferty-admits-sick-abuse-on-young-football-players-to-cleanse-his-soul/ar-AAleN9w?li=AAdeCd7&ocid=spartanntp


A former football coach has come clean about the years of abuse he inflicted on young players, saying there are so many he can’t remember them all.Former Celtic kit man Jim McCafferty, 71, confessed to a 20-year campaign of abuse during the 1980s and 90s in a bid to “unburden himself” and “cleanse his soul” after a whistleblower came forward about his behaviour.



the story is about him at celtic, why is their a reference to hibs near the bottom ?



"A spokesman for Hibs said the club hadn’t been contacted by the police concerning any allegations regarding McCafferty."

was he ever employed by hibs ? although I realise the mirror is a sister paper of the daily record

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-celtic-coach-jim-mccafferty-admits-sick-abuse-on-young-football-players-to-cleanse-his-soul/ar-AAleN9w?li=AAdeCd7&ocid=spartanntp


A former football coach has come clean about the years of abuse he inflicted on young players, saying there are so many he can’t remember them all.Former Celtic kit man Jim McCafferty, 71, confessed to a 20-year campaign of abuse during the 1980s and 90s in a bid to “unburden himself” and “cleanse his soul” after a whistleblower came forward about his behaviour.



the story is about him at celtic, why is their a reference to hibs near the bottom ?



"A spokesman for Hibs said the club hadn’t been contacted by the police concerning any allegations regarding McCafferty."

was he ever employed by hibs ? although I realise the mirror is a sister paper of the daily record


According to a similar story in the DR, he came to us after Celtic, and worked as a kitman. Fairly relevant, I would have thought.

The DR is now saying that the guy has handed himself in to the police.

[oconnors_strip]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-celtic-coach-jim-mccafferty-admits-sick-abuse-on-young-football-players-to-cleanse-his-soul/ar-AAleN9w?li=AAdeCd7&ocid=spartanntp


A former football coach has come clean about the years of abuse he inflicted on young players, saying there are so many he can’t remember them all.Former Celtic kit man Jim McCafferty, 71, confessed to a 20-year campaign of abuse during the 1980s and 90s in a bid to “unburden himself” and “cleanse his soul” after a whistleblower came forward about his behaviour.



the story is about him at celtic, why is their a reference to hibs near the bottom ?



"A spokesman for Hibs said the club hadn’t been contacted by the police concerning any allegations regarding McCafferty."

was he ever employed by hibs ? although I realise the mirror is a sister paper of the daily record

Jim was the Kitman at hibs in the late 90s/early 00s. From some tweets and Facebook posts from young players back then they aren't that shocked and are saying it's about time this was made public.

The daily record have a video of Jim handing himself in to the police in Belfast and him apologising. It's made me feel sick as I knew Jim from the time I was a ball girl at hibs. I think there is a lot more to come out over the the coming months from many clubs and players.

[cabbageandribs1875]

According to a similar story in the DR, he came to us after Celtic, and worked as a kitman. Fairly relevant, I would have thought.

The DR is now saying that the guy has handed himself in to the police.



to be fair(to me) the mirror didn't mention anything about him being employed by hibs hence my confusion why they just dropped our clubs name in to the story :wink:


after having a quick wee looky at the daily record site first up is a nice story of Hibs and Dnipro, maybe worthy of a thread on it's own


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-hibs-fans-formed-unique-9403071

[cabbageandribs1875]

Jim was the Kitman at hibs in the late 90s/early 00s. From some tweets and Facebook posts from young players back then they aren't that shocked and are saying it's about time this was made public.

The daily record have a video of Jim handing himself in to the police in Belfast and him apologising. It's made me feel sick as I knew Jim from the time I was a ball girl at hibs. I think there is a lot more to come out over the the coming months from many clubs and players.]


thanks for that explanation os, I just can't remember his name ever being mentioned in anything to do with hibs, fully understand how yourself/others that knew him will be feeling now

[jacomo]

I first started playing for a team when I was about 9 - does anyone remember the five a sides at Craigroyston Community High School pitches in the early 70s? There were literally dozens of wee teams and at least one Pilton Sporting Club age group grew from that. The Sharks, The Lions, The Barracudas, and so on, played on Saturday mornings. There were loads of adults giving up their own time to ref and look after the laddies. I then played for various school and amateur teams well into my forties and played for and worked with many coaches. At no point in all those years was I aware of any indecent goings on.
There obviously was stuff happening somewhere at the time, as it is inherent throughout society, but I just didn't know of anyone being targeted. I have always been uncomfortable with the 'Saville-type' jibes aimed at Hearts though (on this board and at matches) and would never subscribe to using that type of insult towards them or anyone else. We should all rally against the abusers and remember they could have been, and probably still are, at any club. I'm just in awe of the bravery of those affected and hope they receive some justice and/or closure.

I won't name any names as I don't have any evidence but, as someone who went to school in Edinburgh in the 80s, rumours were rife. My own school PE teacher had some questionable practices shall we say (always felt it necessary to supervise showers very intently) and we boys used to make sure we were never alone with him.

This stuff just wasn't taken seriously, by anyone. Ironically, young people today are much safer, but of course it's all coming out now.

There are no excuses. Every sport and every organisation which looked after kids now has to look at what happened in the past. Swimming clubs, scout groups, you name it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Were you the orange peeler ? :greengrin

:greengrin never peeled a hun in my life. :wink:

[StevieCowan]

Laughing stock? Apart from those who think it's clever to use this sort of stuff as a point scoring exercise I don't think anyone will be laughing.


Agree. Perhaps now all the silly and immature songs about "peados" will never be heard again at another Hibs game.

[Itsnoteasy]

Laughing stock? Apart from those who think it's clever to use this sort of stuff as a point scoring exercise I don't think anyone will be laughing.

Just like we had a go at the Hertz.

[Lago]

Agree. Perhaps now all the silly and immature songs about "peados" will never be heard again at another Hibs game.

Thank goodness it is awful stuff.

[Jonnyboy]

Jim was the Kitman at hibs in the late 90s/early 00s. From some tweets and Facebook posts from young players back then they aren't that shocked and are saying it's about time this was made public.

The daily record have a video of Jim handing himself in to the police in Belfast and him apologising. It's made me feel sick as I knew Jim from the time I was a ball girl at hibs. I think there is a lot more to come out over the the coming months from many clubs and players.

I remember him and so does Tam McManus

http://www.tammcmanus.com/single-post/2016/12/07/Jim-McCafferty

[marinello59]

Just like we had a go at the Hertz.

There were plenty here asking for the paedo songs to stop. Hopefully they will now.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Just like we had a go at the Hertz.

This should be well past who said what about which club ... FYI there's at least one Jambo on their thread about this on Kickback pointing out that amongst the numbers of posts having a go at us about our chants or whatever about the Rix and Thomson cases that their fans have no problem trotting out the 'big Jock knew' chants at Celtic park ..... and as I recall there were a few chants of this nature aimed at Jason Cummings over an incident at a party he was at, but in which he was entirely not involved, in view of which they have no right to be playing the injured party or giving it the old holier than thou routine .... two wrongs don't make a right.

My point being that, as I've already said, this situation has gone way past piss taking and point scoring ... neither we or any other set of fans can claim to be squeaky clean when it comes to using incidents of this nature as a stick to beat our rivals with when the opportunity has arisen. But that time is now gone and this current situation is far too serious ( not that the others I've mentioned weren't ) to ever be used either on the terraces or on message boards for one upmanship or anything else. Not forgetting that the fans taking the piss this week could very well be the fans reading about their club on the front pages next week.

[givescotlandfreedom]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-celtic-coach-jim-mccafferty-admits-sick-abuse-on-young-football-players-to-cleanse-his-soul/ar-AAleN9w?li=AAdeCd7&ocid=spartanntp


A former football coach has come clean about the years of abuse he inflicted on young players, saying there are so many he can’t remember them all.Former Celtic kit man Jim McCafferty, 71, confessed to a 20-year campaign of abuse during the 1980s and 90s in a bid to “unburden himself” and “cleanse his soul” after a whistleblower came forward about his behaviour.



the story is about him at celtic, why is their a reference to hibs near the bottom ?



"A spokesman for Hibs said the club hadn’t been contacted by the police concerning any allegations regarding McCafferty."

was he ever employed by hibs ? although I realise the mirror is a sister paper of the daily record

Amazing after all these years he decides to cleanse his soul the moment his name was getting banded about the press.

[HappyHanlon]

This is merely the start.

I reckon a lot of youth coaches from back in the 70's and 80's will be having sleepless nights as they anxiously wait for a knock at the door.

Started with celebrities, moved onto football......politicians next.

If you ever watched that programme 'Acceptable in the 70's' a few months back then you'll have a pretty good idea of how beastly that decade was!

[hibs#1]

Think by the end of all the revelations and inquirys have finished in think it'll be an unholy amount of names and clubs getting pulled up,it will amaze me if pretty much every club in Britain will be involved somehow

It's absolutely disgusting that it was allowed to go on,it really makes me laugh when I here older people go on about things like that never went on back in the day when it's clear as day paedophilia was rampant.

I would say a child is less likely to be abused nowadays (I know it still goes on and far too much still.) than in the past where as a peado is much more likely to get the jail

I hope all victims get their justice and I hope anyone guilty gets caught and gets the harshest sentence available.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Amazing after all these years he decides to cleanse his soul the moment his name was getting banded about the press.


thought that myself, still at least he appears to know full well he will be going to jail, he will have a few years to cleanse himself

[HappyHanlon]

Think by the end of all the revelations and inquirys have finished in think it'll be an unholy amount of names and clubs getting pulled up,it will amaze me if pretty much every club in Britain will be involved somehow

It's absolutely disgusting that it was allowed to go on,it really makes me laugh when I here older people go on about things like that never went on back in the day when it's clear as day paedophilia was rampant.

I would say a child is less likely to be abused nowadays (I know it still goes on and far too much still.) than in the past where as a peado is much more likely to get the jail

I hope all victims get their justice and I hope anyone guilty gets caught and gets the harshest sentence available.

Cock and balls chopped off and passed to medical science for experimentation.

[Itsnoteasy]

This is merely the start.

I reckon a lot of youth coaches from back in the 70's and 80's will be having sleepless nights as they anxiously wait for a knock at the door.

Started with celebrities, moved onto football......politicians next.

If you ever watched that programme 'Acceptable in the 70's' a few months back then you'll have a pretty good idea of how beastly that decade was!

Just a pity that some are deed & not here to face the consequences. Hope they rot in hell

[hibs#1]

Cock and balls chopped off and passed to medical science for experimentation.

I'm sure I once read an article about chemical castration on rapists in the Czech Republic.still to nice but might help to stop repeat offenders.

[Itsnoteasy]

This should be well past who said what about which club ... FYI there's at least one Jambo on their thread about this on Kickback pointing out that amongst the numbers of posts having a go at us about our chants or whatever about the Rix and Thomson cases that their fans have no problem trotting out the 'big Jock knew' chants at Celtic park ..... and as I recall there were a few chants of this nature aimed at Jason Cummings over an incident at a party he was at, but in which he was entirely not involved, in view of which they have no right to be playing the injured party or giving it the old holier than thou routine .... two wrongs don't make a right.

My point being that, as I've already said, this situation has gone way past piss taking and point scoring ... neither we or any other set of fans can claim to be squeaky clean when it comes to using incidents of this nature as a stick to beat our rivals with when the opportunity has arisen. But that time is now gone and this current situation is far too serious ( not that the others I've mentioned weren't ) to ever be used either on the terraces or on message boards for one upmanship or anything else. Not forgetting that the fans taking the piss this week could very well be the fans reading about their club on the front pages next week.

http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/top%20marks.gif

[G B Young]

This is merely the start.

Claim now revealed about a Partick Thistle physio in the 90s.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38242371

[where'stheslope]

I was not happy when I heard on the STV news that a Hibs man has been talking to Police about abuse!
Then during the news program a more in depth article on it, it said he had been at Hibs, Rangers and Falkirk!
So yet again the Headline "A Hibs Man" became 3 Clubs and youth football????

[Itsnoteasy]

Claim now revealed about a Partick Thistle physio in the 90s.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38242371

Just watched it on the news. They sacked him, never told the polis. Sent players to his private clinic after sacking him. Then years later ran an article in the Matchday programme praising him saying he was the best in the business :confused:

[Jonnyboy]

I was not happy when I heard on the STV news that a Hibs man has been talking to Police about abuse!
Then during the news program a more in depth article on it, it said he had been at Hibs, Rangers and Falkirk!
So yet again the Headline "A Hibs Man" became 3 Clubs and youth football????

It's STV Edinburgh so it was a stick on they'd mention the Hibs connection up front

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Having read the article in todays Evening News re the late night activities, ghost stories etc at Dalguise Castle, that all went on when I went there with Hutchy when GN was there, fortunately I'm not aware of anything untoward happening though.

[fat freddy]

I would say a child is less likely to be abused nowadays (I know it still goes on and far too much still.) than in the past where as a peado is much more likely to get the jail

.

You clearly dont follow the news, paedophilia is rife in all sections of society particulary amongst those in positions of power, do a quick search of Pizzagate to see just how far up the chain it goes, very strong evidence that most of the american political elite are involved or turn a blind eye, truly disturbing stories about George Bush senior make our former paedo prime minister Edward Heath seem like a saint.

[overdrive]

You clearly dont follow the news, paedophilia is rife in all sections of society particulary amongst those in positions of power, do a quick search of Pizzagate to see just how far up the chain it goes, very strong evidence that most of the american political elite are involved or turn a blind eye, truly disturbing stories about George Bush senior make our former paedo prime minister Edward Heath seem like a saint.

I may be having a woosh moment here, but when you Google 'pizzagate' it is basically all articles debunking it as an alt-right conspiracy theory. Hardly strong evidence.

Back to the revelations today, why on earth did Hibs employ McCafferty after those allegations?

[ancient hibee]

You clearly dont follow the news, paedophilia is rife in all sections of society particulary amongst those in positions of power, do a quick search of Pizzagate to see just how far up the chain it goes, very strong evidence that most of the american political elite are involved or turn a blind eye, truly disturbing stories about George Bush senior make our former paedo prime minister Edward Heath seem like a saint.

It's really brave to slur Heath like you do.Why don't you try someone who's still alive under your real name?

[CentreLine]

It's really brave to slur Heath like you do.Why don't you try someone who's still alive under your real name?

Am I right in thinking that the person who made allegations against Heath and other high profile figures in military and government circles was found to be a fantasist and there was huge criticism of the metropolitan police for their handling of the case?

[QMU-1875]

I may be having a woosh moment here, but when you Google 'pizzagate' it is basically all articles debunking it as an alt-right conspiracy theory. Hardly strong evidence.

Back to the revelations today, why on earth did Hibs employ McCafferty after those allegations?

This. Absolute disgrace and if anyone is at the club currently that was involved in this decision then they should be booted out pronto. The fact that those allegations were there and he was hired is bad but the fact he was allowed to be involved with the youth set up is even worse.

Big shout out to those involved at Celtic during this time as well, who sacked him on the back of the allegations yet didn't warn anyone/ report the nonce to the police.

[CropleyWasGod]

This. Absolute disgrace and if anyone is at the club currently that was involved in this decision then they should be booted out pronto. The fact that those allegations were there and he was hired is bad but the fact he was allowed to be involved with the youth set up is even worse.

Big shout out to those involved at Celtic during this time as well, who sacked him on the back of the allegations yet didn't warn anyone/ report the nonce to the police.
You say that Celtic didn't tell anyone.

So how would Hibs know?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[QMU-1875]

You say that Celtic didn't tell anyone.

So how would Hibs know?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Allegations were published and public knowledge. Scottish football is a goldfish bowl. Surely someone at the club could have spoke to someone at Celtic and found it he was a dodgy character. The fact people at Celtic stood back and let him back in to football is sickening.

[CentreLine]

Allegations were published and public knowledge. Scottish football is a goldfish bowl. Surely someone at the club could have spoke to someone at Celtic and found it he was a dodgy character. The fact people at Celtic stood back and let him back in to football is sickening.

Have to agree. Almost impossible to fathom why people like him were allowed to stay in the game. Fiddling with children quite simply the most depraved crime.

[ihibs7]

Innocent until proven guilty? The problem being that the pf might not have a credible case based on the evidence of children, but a club might discontinue someone's employment, because they are not satisfied that someone doesn't pose a risk.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

Think by the end of all the revelations and inquirys have finished in think it'll be an unholy amount of names and clubs getting pulled up,it will amaze me if pretty much every club in Britain will be involved somehow

It's absolutely disgusting that it was allowed to go on,it really makes me laugh when I here older people go on about things like that never went on back in the day when it's clear as day paedophilia was rampant.

I would say a child is less likely to be abused nowadays (I know it still goes on and far too much still.) than in the past where as a peado is much more likely to get the jail

I hope all victims get their justice and I hope anyone guilty gets caught and gets the harshest sentence available.

No doubt about it.

The fact that all this is coming out now is actually a sign of how far we have progressed as a society.

All these cases of abuse - the Church, Savile, now football - happened because those in authority could do what they wanted and avoid punishment. Now it's coming back to haunt them.

[Cosmic Truth]

Laughing stock? Apart from those who think it's clever to use this sort of stuff as a point scoring exercise I don't think anyone will be laughing.

Spot on. Only sad ****ers would be laughing at this.

[Cosmic Truth]

This. Absolute disgrace and if anyone is at the club currently that was involved in this decision then they should be booted out pronto. The fact that those allegations were there and he was hired is bad but the fact he was allowed to be involved with the youth set up is even worse.

Big shout out to those involved at Celtic during this time as well, who sacked him on the back of the allegations yet didn't warn anyone/ report the nonce to the police.

I don't think that's strictly true.

According to these cuttings, he resigned from Celtic, and the club carried out an investigation into allegations of inapropriate behaviour before he joined the club. If I'm reading the second one correctly, the police seem to have decided not to charge him, but the fact it was all over the papers would make you think prospective employers might have thought twice before taking him on.

http://d3pnhqsyxmeo7b.cloudfront.net/monthly_2016_12/IMG_1814.JPG.3168490212966bf7b5d1e0f841446562.JPG


http://i63.tinypic.com/2dikqk3.jpg

[silverhibee]

Allegations were published and public knowledge. Scottish football is a goldfish bowl. Surely someone at the club could have spoke to someone at Celtic and found it he was a dodgy character. The fact people at Celtic stood back and let him back in to football is sickening.

I'm trying to think who the Hibs manager would have been when McCafferty was brought to the club, had to be McCleish or him that was flown in to ER in the helicopter who's name totally escapes me right now. Old age on my part.

[oconnors_strip]

I'm trying to think who the Hibs manager would have been when McCafferty was brought to the club, had to be McCleish or him that was flown in to ER in the helicopter who's name totally escapes me right now. Old age on my part.

Duffy. I'm not sure who the manager was either.

[silverhibee]

This thread says it has 6 pages but won't let on to the 6th page. :confused:

Sorted. :greengrin

[mjhibby]

I remember him and so does Tam McManus

http://www.tammcmanus.com/single-post/2016/12/07/Jim-McCafferty

A very Franck interview by tam. Pity others can't be as forthright.

[mjhibby]

No doubt about it.

The fact that all this is coming out now is actually a sign of how far we have progressed as a society.

All these cases of abuse - the Church, Savile, now football - happened because those in authority could do what they wanted and avoid punishment. Now it's coming back to haunt them.

Indeed.may they rot in hell.

[superfurryhibby]

A very Franck interview by tam. Pity others can't be as forthright.

Tam's blogs are excellent and his views on this pervert are telling. He says that he finds it hard to believe that no one had doubts about this guy as he moved between clubs, continuing his access to youngsters despite being thrown out of Celtic

How was this so easy for them? Different times etc, but it wasn't that long ago? Fear and manipulation no doubt helped silence the youngsters being abused, but surely other adults connected witn the various clubs they worked for noted the behaviours Mc Manus highlighted and said made him uncomfortable?

A few years ago my middle laddie was playing for the local boys club in Spain. My ex highlighted some odd behaviours from one of the coaches, sexualised comments and the boy said a few things about the guys dressing room humour, which made us uncomfortable. We took him out of the team and although he was unhappy with it, especially as it was a small town with one boys club, he also understood our thinking. Roll on a few years and the Tom Kite has hit the fan. The guy and another coach at a different age group are facing criminal action etc.

I wonder if clubs as employers have liability in any of this? Part of me thinks that there's a degree of shared responsibility and the failure to protect, by lack of scrutiny, turning a blind eye etc, is tantamount to collusion.

[Smartie]

Tam's blogs are excellent and his views on this pervert are telling. He says that he finds it hard to believe that no one had doubts about this guy as he moved between clubs, continuing his access to youngsters despite being thrown out of Celtic

How was this so easy for them? Different times etc, but it wasn't that long ago? Fear and manipulation no doubt helped silence the youngsters being abused, but surely other adults connected witn the various clubs they worked for noted the behaviours Mc Manus highlighted and said made him uncomfortable?

A few years ago my middle laddie was playing for the local boys club in Spain. My ex highlighted some odd behaviours from one of the coaches, sexualised comments and the boy said a few things about the guys dressing room humour, which made us uncomfortable. We took him out of the team and although he was unhappy with it, especially as it was a small town with one boys club, he also understood our thinking. Roll on a few years and the Tom Kite has hit the fan. The guy and another coach at a different age group are facing criminal action etc.

I wonder if clubs as employers have liability in any of this? Part of me thinks that there's a degree of shared responsibility and the failure to protect, by lack of scrutiny, turning a blind eye etc, is tantamount to collusion.

I have no doubt that investigations will throw up dodgy actions by clubs - paying people to keep quiet, sweeping matters under rugs etc and that cannot be condoned.

But clubs also have responsibility to their employees, their employees have rights too. Clubs can't just go sacking people on the basis of rumour and whispering campaigns. Of course they should take complaints very seriously and deal with them in the strictest terms possible, but it seems to me that the first some clubs are hearing of certain individuals is via victims coming forward in the press - if a club doesn't receive a complaint (and if they don't receive a complaint, how are they to ascertain whether it is credible or not) what can they reasonably be expected to do?

[SRHibs]

McCafferty was a bachelor with no kids who lived alone and whilst of course this doesn't make you a paedophile surely it's a tick in the alarm bells ringing column.

What an absurd line by Tam.

[CropleyWasGod]

What an absurd line by Tam.

Absurd and offensive to all guys in the same situation.

[Cosmic Truth]

What an absurd line by Tam.

It's absolutely ridiculous. That's a very old fashioned attitude that someone who hasn't married is worth the watching.

[Peevemor]

What an absurd line by Tam.


Absurd and offensive to all guys in the same situation.


It's absolutely ridiculous. That's a very old fashioned attitude that someone who hasn't married is worth the watching.

While I agree with you, it should be remembered that Tam McManus isn't a professional writer - just a former footballer with a blog. I'd imagine that it was own uneasy feeling about the guy coupled with the fact that he was a confirmed bachelor that resulted in him writing what he did.

[superfurryhibby]

While I agree with you, it should be remembered that Tam McManus isn't a professional writer - just a former footballer with a blog. I'd imagine that it was own uneasy feeling about the guy coupled with the fact that he was a confirmed bachelor that resulted in him writing what he did.

In the blog Tam said that this added to the other issues that rang his alarm bells. I think they were considerably more dubious than his bachelor status. A comment, which was a bit daft though.

[CropleyWasGod]

While I agree with you, it should be remembered that Tam McManus isn't a professional writer - just a former footballer with a blog. I'd imagine that it was own uneasy feeling about the guy coupled with the fact that he was a confirmed bachelor that resulted in him writing what he did.

That's fair comment, but the internet can be the modern-day equivalent of the steamie. A few words out of place from someone with a bit of authority, and suddenly there's pitchforks at your door.

[hibee_girl]

What an absurd line by Tam.

He's said on twitter that that line was in relation to the guy inviting boys to his house for sleepovers, not just that he was a single man

[CropleyWasGod]

He's said on twitter that that line was in relation to the guy inviting boys to his house for sleepovers, not just that he was a single man

I'd be interested in what the parents thought.... at the time, not in hindsight.

[barcahibs]

Absurd and offensive to all guys in the same situation.

I'm glad others have picked up on this.

I'm an unmarried man with no kids of my own. I work for a charity and part of my job involves me working with children, providing positive experience days, events and activity sessions. Reading statements like the above makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Working within this sector its already painfully obvious how few males are involved, almost all my coworkers are female - go into any primary school and you'll see the same, very few male teachers - so no male role models for the kids (many of whom will come from one parent homes to start with).

My work has really robust safeguarding measures which means that adults are never alone with kids and we have regular training on appropriate ways to deal with people and situations, i can see this effort redoubling - and theres nothing wrong with that really, except that i hate the idea that people might look at me with suspicion because im a man working with children.

This week i had an incident where a child came up and cuddled me after a session - I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life, arms to the side trying to minimise body contact, trying to move away - all without making the child feel rejected or uncomfortable.

Now that's fine, its a normal occurence and one we're trained to deal with - but with all the chat this week, I'm starting to really rethink things.

There was someine on a radio call in this week saying that basically all men working with children should be viewed with suspicion.

I don't want to be part of that to be honest. I'm considering starting to steer my sessions and my time away from,working with kids, and to be honest that makes me feel really bad, but it just seems the best thing to do.

Sorry for the stream of conciousness post, obviously i agree that there are bad people out there (though nowhere near the numbers some would like you to believe) and those people should be caught and hammered by the law. And obviously robust safeguarding procedures are totally right and appropriate, but i think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm glad others have picked up on this.

I'm an unmarried man with no kids of my own. I work for a charity and part of my job involves me working with children, providing positive experience days, events and activity sessions. Reading statements like the above makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Working within this sector its already painfully obvious how few males are involved, almost all my coworkers are female - go into any primary school and you'll see the same, very few male teachers - so no male role models for the kids (many of whom will come from one parent homes to start with).

My work has really robust safeguarding measures which means that adults are never alone with kids and we have regular training on appropriate ways to deal with people and situations, i can see this effort redoubling - and theres nothing wrong with that really, except that i hate the idea that people might look at me with suspicion because im a man working with children.

This week i had an incident where a child came up and cuddled me after a session - I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life, arms to the side trying to minimise body contact, trying to move away - all without making the child feel rejected or uncomfortable.

Now that's fine, its a normal occurence and one we're trained to deal with - but with all the chat this week, I'm starting to really rethink things.

There was someine on a radio call in this week saying that basically all men working with children should be viewed with suspicion.

I don't want to be part of that to be honest. I'm considering starting to steer my sessions and my time away from,working with kids, and to be honest that makes me feel really bad, but it just seems the best thing to do.

Sorry for the stream of conciousness post, obviously i agree that there are bad people out there (though nowhere near the numbers some would like you to believe) and those people should be caught and hammered by the law. And obviously robust safeguarding procedures are totally right and appropriate, but i think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Don't apologise, mate. You will not be alone in your thoughts just now.

I'm not a professional like you, but I feel uncomfortable if I'm alone in, say, a park and a kid starts talking to me. I'd like to think that the parenting instinct comes to the fore, but that doesn't prevent others thinking ill of me.

The part highlighted...that's the kind of attitude that read to vigilante behaviour. It's not helpful at all.

[SRHibs]

He's said on twitter that that line was in relation to the guy inviting boys to his house for sleepovers, not just that he was a single man


That's all good and well, but in his piece it's effectively a standalone statement. He even qualified it with (to paraphrase). not all bachelors living alone are paedos, BUT...".

EDIT: I'm wrong. Within the context of he paragraph I can see what he means.

[BH Hibs]

I remember him at Armadale back in the 80's think he was at Fauldhouse juniors beforehand. Sometimes when these stories come out it's easy to look back in hindsight and retrospectively connect the dots but there always a bit of an uneasy feeling around him without going into anything further. Hope the ******* rots in hell.

[lapsedhibee]

I'd imagine that it was own uneasy feeling about the guy coupled with the fact that he was a confirmed bachelor that resulted in him writing what he did.

Can I just check, as I don't keep up with fashion ... this used to be a euphemism for being gay. Has it morphed into a euphemism for being a paedophile?



There was someone on a radio call in this week saying that basically all men working with children should be viewed with suspicion.

It's not just random phone-in callers who think like that. It's been the stated view of Andrea Leadsom, who wasn't a million miles away from becoming Conservative Party leader and thereafter Prime Minister.

Also on the subject of changing fashion, when I were a lad it was illegal to be gay and legal to be a member of the Paedophile Information Exchange. Apart from the FF and the Tornadoes, the old days were a crock of ****.

[Peevemor]

Can I just check, as I don't keep up with fashion ... this used to be a euphemism for being gay. Has it morphed into a euphemism for being a paedophile?

I've no idea though I doubt it. I've only used it when referring to blokes of a certain age (maybe 40+) who appear to be perpetually single for whatever reason.

[wookie70]

I'm glad others have picked up on this.

I'm an unmarried man with no kids of my own. I work for a charity and part of my job involves me working with children, providing positive experience days, events and activity sessions. Reading statements like the above makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Working within this sector its already painfully obvious how few males are involved, almost all my coworkers are female - go into any primary school and you'll see the same, very few male teachers - so no male role models for the kids (many of whom will come from one parent homes to start with).

My work has really robust safeguarding measures which means that adults are never alone with kids and we have regular training on appropriate ways to deal with people and situations, i can see this effort redoubling - and theres nothing wrong with that really, except that i hate the idea that people might look at me with suspicion because im a man working with children.

This week i had an incident where a child came up and cuddled me after a session - I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life, arms to the side trying to minimise body contact, trying to move away - all without making the child feel rejected or uncomfortable.

Now that's fine, its a normal occurence and one we're trained to deal with - but with all the chat this week, I'm starting to really rethink things.

There was someine on a radio call in this week saying that basically all men working with children should be viewed with suspicion.

I don't want to be part of that to be honest. I'm considering starting to steer my sessions and my time away from,working with kids, and to be honest that makes me feel really bad, but it just seems the best thing to do.

Sorry for the stream of conciousness post, obviously i agree that there are bad people out there (though nowhere near the numbers some would like you to believe) and those people should be caught and hammered by the law. And obviously robust safeguarding procedures are totally right and appropriate, but i think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Shocking you feel like that. Hope it doesn't come to feeling pressured to look elsewhere. coaching kids football is similar. You need two coaches which isn't always possible and the club aren't happy if you take a training session solo. The training is on astro with 3 other teams training roundabout. I totally agree that males are getting driven out of these types of roles as I also do youth work and have two kids of my own. I'm married but still feel lots of the pressures you do but fortunately in voluntary roles. Tams comments are reckless, outdated and idiotic.

[hibsbollah]

I'm glad others have picked up on this.

I'm an unmarried man with no kids of my own. I work for a charity and part of my job involves me working with children, providing positive experience days, events and activity sessions. Reading statements like the above makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Working within this sector its already painfully obvious how few males are involved, almost all my coworkers are female - go into any primary school and you'll see the same, very few male teachers - so no male role models for the kids (many of whom will come from one parent homes to start with).

My work has really robust safeguarding measures which means that adults are never alone with kids and we have regular training on appropriate ways to deal with people and situations, i can see this effort redoubling - and theres nothing wrong with that really, except that i hate the idea that people might look at me with suspicion because im a man working with children.

This week i had an incident where a child came up and cuddled me after a session - I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life, arms to the side trying to minimise body contact, trying to move away - all without making the child feel rejected or uncomfortable.

Now that's fine, its a normal occurence and one we're trained to deal with - but with all the chat this week, I'm starting to really rethink things.

There was someine on a radio call in this week saying that basically all men working with children should be viewed with suspicion.

I don't want to be part of that to be honest. I'm considering starting to steer my sessions and my time away from,working with kids, and to be honest that makes me feel really bad, but it just seems the best thing to do.

Sorry for the stream of conciousness post, obviously i agree that there are bad people out there (though nowhere near the numbers some would like you to believe) and those people should be caught and hammered by the law. And obviously robust safeguarding procedures are totally right and appropriate, but i think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

That's a really interesting perspective and I can see parallels with my job when I occasionally have to interact with children and also when I'm coaching the kids football on a weekend. The whole 'string 'em up' culture needs to be challenged and a sense of balance imposed. Its OK to be a male and work with kids!

[Scott Allan Key]

That's a really interesting perspective and I can see parallels with my job when I occasionally have to interact with children and also when I'm coaching the kids football on a weekend. The whole 'string 'em up' culture needs to be challenged and a sense of balance imposed. Its OK to be a male and work with kids!

Men are in danger of being singled out. I was in the situation with my kids, who were playing with other kids in soft play, who I didn't know. I was talked to by another kid and while minimising my response, the child was scolded by her mother not to talk to me. I've never felt so small, I politely explained later to the mother how much my 2 boys liked playing with her daughter as I was expecting a daughter soon. That she felt it okay to talk to my boys earlier without my intervention and have the temerity to cast such an aspersions on me, despite the sensibility of not talking to strangers, shows how gross insensitivity some people have towards male figures, even those who are fathers with their kids. Saddening.

[CropleyWasGod]

Men are in danger of being singled out. I was in the situation with my kids, who were playing with other kids in soft play, who I didn't know. I was talked to by another kid and while minimising my response, the child was scolded by her mother not to talk to me. I've never felt so small, I politely explained later to the mother how much my 2 boys liked playing with her daughter as I was expecting a daughter soon. That she felt it okay to talk to my boys earlier without my intervention and have the temerity to cast such an aspersions on me, despite the sensibility of not talking to strangers, shows how gross insensitivity some people have towards male figures, even those who are fathers with their kids. Saddening.

A common scenario, I'm sure.

The worry is that we have a generation of kids who grow up with a fear of men, and with no decent male role-models outside their own immediate circle.

[ancient hibee]

A common scenario, I'm sure.

The worry is that we have a generation of kids who grow up with a fear of men, and with no decent male role-models outside their own immediate circle.

And what's more many of these kids are desperately in need of a male adult in their lives.Incidentally I think Tam should put something in his blog that on reflection he had made a pretty stupid remark or phrased it badly.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm glad others have picked up on this.

I'm an unmarried man with no kids of my own. I work for a charity and part of my job involves me working with children, providing positive experience days, events and activity sessions. Reading statements like the above makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Working within this sector its already painfully obvious how few males are involved, almost all my coworkers are female - go into any primary school and you'll see the same, very few male teachers - so no male role models for the kids (many of whom will come from one parent homes to start with).

My work has really robust safeguarding measures which means that adults are never alone with kids and we have regular training on appropriate ways to deal with people and situations, i can see this effort redoubling - and theres nothing wrong with that really, except that i hate the idea that people might look at me with suspicion because im a man working with children.

This week i had an incident where a child came up and cuddled me after a session - I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life, arms to the side trying to minimise body contact, trying to move away - all without making the child feel rejected or uncomfortable.

Now that's fine, its a normal occurence and one we're trained to deal with - but with all the chat this week, I'm starting to really rethink things.

There was someine on a radio call in this week saying that basically all men working with children should be viewed with suspicion.

I don't want to be part of that to be honest. I'm considering starting to steer my sessions and my time away from,working with kids, and to be honest that makes me feel really bad, but it just seems the best thing to do.

Sorry for the stream of conciousness post, obviously i agree that there are bad people out there (though nowhere near the numbers some would like you to believe) and those people should be caught and hammered by the law. And obviously robust safeguarding procedures are totally right and appropriate, but i think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Its a terrible world we live in where folk are made to feel like this ..... I remember many years ago we kept Guinea pigs in the back garden, the wee girl in the next garden wanted to see them, but around that time paedophilia was all over the news and even though it would have been a simple matter for me to reach over and lift the wee lassie over the fence I told her to go and ask her mum to bring her round to the garden. How sad a thing that adults daren't go near a kid just in case.

[Cosmic Truth]

While I agree with you, it should be remembered that Tam McManus isn't a professional writer - just a former footballer with a blog. I'd imagine that it was own uneasy feeling about the guy coupled with the fact that he was a confirmed bachelor that resulted in him writing what he did.

I'm not a professional writer either, and I can well understand him having his suspicions about McCafferty due to his behaviour, but to say a bachelor, who doesn't have children, is suspicious is a bit of a Neanderthal view, in my opinion.

[Cosmic Truth]

That's fair comment, but the internet can be the modern-day equivalent of the steamie. A few words out of place from someone with a bit of authority, and suddenly there's pitchforks at your door.

Iirc, a few years ago a crowd of vigilantes, in Leicester I think, turned up to protest outside the house of a paediatrician!

[Cosmic Truth]

I'm glad others have picked up on this.

I'm an unmarried man with no kids of my own. I work for a charity and part of my job involves me working with children, providing positive experience days, events and activity sessions. Reading statements like the above makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Working within this sector its already painfully obvious how few males are involved, almost all my coworkers are female - go into any primary school and you'll see the same, very few male teachers - so no male role models for the kids (many of whom will come from one parent homes to start with).

My work has really robust safeguarding measures which means that adults are never alone with kids and we have regular training on appropriate ways to deal with people and situations, i can see this effort redoubling - and theres nothing wrong with that really, except that i hate the idea that people might look at me with suspicion because im a man working with children.

This week i had an incident where a child came up and cuddled me after a session - I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life, arms to the side trying to minimise body contact, trying to move away - all without making the child feel rejected or uncomfortable.

Now that's fine, its a normal occurence and one we're trained to deal with - but with all the chat this week, I'm starting to really rethink things.

There was someine on a radio call in this week saying that basically all men working with children should be viewed with suspicion.

I don't want to be part of that to be honest. I'm considering starting to steer my sessions and my time away from,working with kids, and to be honest that makes me feel really bad, but it just seems the best thing to do.

Sorry for the stream of conciousness post, obviously i agree that there are bad people out there (though nowhere near the numbers some would like you to believe) and those people should be caught and hammered by the law. And obviously robust safeguarding procedures are totally right and appropriate, but i think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It's a crying shame an adult male can't give a child a friendly hug without having to worry about how it might be perceived.

[Bristolhibby]

I have no doubt that investigations will throw up dodgy actions by clubs - paying people to keep quiet, sweeping matters under rugs etc and that cannot be condoned.

But clubs also have responsibility to their employees, their employees have rights too. Clubs can't just go sacking people on the basis of rumour and whispering campaigns. Of course they should take complaints very seriously and deal with them in the strictest terms possible, but it seems to me that the first some clubs are hearing of certain individuals is via victims coming forward in the press - if a club doesn't receive a complaint (and if they don't receive a complaint, how are they to ascertain whether it is credible or not) what can they reasonably be expected to do?

TBF you can sack somebody on a lot less evidence than prosecuting them criminally. If the clubs knew and turned a blind eye then they were part of the problem.

J

[CropleyWasGod]

Iirc, a few years ago a crowd of vigilantes, in Leicester I think, turned up to protest outside the house of a paediatrician!
That's actually an urban myth.

I was reminded about it today. What happened was that a paediatrician in Gwent arrived home to find the words "Paedo out" painted on her door. Police found that it was a few local teenagers.

The story grew arms and legs though.... to the point where many people (including me, for years) used it as an example of mob stupidity.

Here it is:-

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/a-tale-told-too-much-the-paediatrician-vigilantes/
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Cosmic Truth]

That's actually an urban myth.

I was reminded about it today. What happened was that a paediatrician in Gwent arrived home to find the words "Paedo out" painted on her door. Police found that it was a few local teenagers.

The story grew arms and legs though.... to the point where many people (including me, for years) used it as an example of mob stupidity.

Here it is:-

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/a-tale-told-too-much-the-paediatrician-vigilantes/
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

:thumbsup:

Even that is toe curling.

[tamig]

I'm not a professional writer either, and I can well understand him having his suspicions about McCafferty due to his behaviour, but to say a bachelor, who doesn't have children, is suspicious is a bit of a Neanderthal view, in my opinion.

Think that's unfair. In context the phrase is fine. Out of context it doesn't look too good. He didn't make the statement based solely on his bachelor and childless status.

[barcahibs]

Just want to make clear that I'm not trying to belittle or put down people's legitimate fears. There is absolutely no doubt that this abuse happened and it should have been prevented, we all as a society to some extent played a part in that by turning a blind eye.

I'm also not trying to say that abuse doesn't still go on today. Of course it does, and we should all be vigilant for signs of it.

But I am saying that it is nowhere near as prevalent as some (media sources mainly) would like you to believe and that real serious steps are made to guard against it. The safeguarding policy at my work is reviewed every year and we get annual face to face training on how to protect children from abuse, how to spot signs of abuse, and how to report it and follow up on it.

This is all right and proper, I don't mind any of it, it's what needs to be done to protect children (and vulnerable adults).

However, there is a danger that the desire to protect goes to far and morphs into hysteria. In my opinion we're very close to crossing that line.

I work with children and vulnerable adults from some of the poorest areas of Scotland. Kids who have been left behind/abandoned by mainstream education or who through poverty or neglect or simple lack of opportunity have few positive experiences in their lives. When I'm out on sessions with these guys two things should be to the forefront of my mind -

1. is everyone safe? 2. is everyone having a positive, fun experience?

increasingly however that's joined by

3. Am I (or my colleagues, or my organisation) in any danger of being open to malicious/false/misguided allegations? How does the current situation look to an outsider?

Sometimes - in fact frequently - point 3 now comes ahead of point 2.

The hoops we have to jump through sometimes to make sure we are absolutely squeaky clean and completely safe from any rumours or allegations are ridiculous. But we have to do it to protect the reputation of ourselves and the organisation - even if that comes at the detriment of the child's experience.

Morale wise, it's pretty horrific to be honest. It is certainly rapidly approaching the stage where I just don't want to put myself in that firing line.

A child coming for a hug during a session is a daily challenge. Kids becoming attached to you is a constant issue. Again at a recent event I had a child who had been on a session with me before come running up to me at the start and jump about looking for attention. Throughout the session he was trying to hold my hand and insisting that he was always in my group when we split for tasks/games.

That's totally normal childlike behaviour. It's a great sign that the child has really enjoyed previous sessions and is engaged in the tasks we're doing. And it's very uncomfortable, and potentially dangerous, for me, to the extent that I actively worry about it and go to great lengths to prevent it happening.

Situations like this happen all the time, across the sector I work in, we roleplay real life scenarios in training all the time - in many of them the 'correct' safeguarding 'answer' to the situation seems ridiculous but it's the way it has to be.

Should it be like that? Its a really difficult question and I don't have the answers.

I ended up working with kids almost by accident, filling in for colleagues who are under-resourced. It would frankly be easier for me just to stop, and it's something I consider more and more.

And it's not just me. There are fewer and fewer men in my sector choosing to work with kids.

As someone said earlier this is made worse by the fact that often we'll be the only positive male role models in these kids lives - I imagine that'll be even worse for those who are volunteering their time as football coaches.

It's a horrible, horrible world we live in.

To be honest I don't think my morale as someone working in this sector could be lower at the moment. The person on the radio call in show I was talking about wasn't just a random who had phoned in with an extreme view, it was a woman from some sort of child advocacy group (I missed the start of the show so didn't get her name) who had been invited on to comment, she was pretty much saying that any man who worked with children should be interviewed by the police before being allowed to continue.

Hearing someone who should know better effectively saying I must be a paedo because I'm a man working with kids is like a kick in the teeth.

Apologies for the thread derailment, again I'm not trying to take away from the very real incidents which have happened and which no doubt are happening. My feeling uncomfortable is nothing compared to the horrific suffering some of these people have been through, I have nothing but admiration for those coming forward.

But as a society we have to look very long and hard at this world we're building.

[Pete]

One thing I don't like are the comments that suggest that we could have done more as a club.

As far as I know we've done nothing wrong and are simply paying the price for giving people the benefit of the doubt.

The people who need to be held to account are those who knew about it and accepted it as part of the package, those who payed hush money and those who brushed it under the carpet by doing things like giving ****ing stadium tours to rape victims.

It's gone beyond naming clubs and individuals but all I'm going to say is that, for now, my conscience is clear regarding who I support and I wish these lazy inferences would stop.

[Cosmic Truth]

Think that's unfair. In context the phrase is fine. Out of context it doesn't look too good. He didn't make the statement based solely on his bachelor and childless status.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

In my opinion, he should have spoke about how he felt McCafferty was dodgy by the way he acted, and left his marital status out of it. I'm sure there are plenty of perverts who are married.

[mjhibby]

Just want to make clear that I'm not trying to belittle or put down people's legitimate fears. There is absolutely no doubt that this abuse happened and it should have been prevented, we all as a society to some extent played a part in that by turning a blind eye.

I'm also not trying to say that abuse doesn't still go on today. Of course it does, and we should all be vigilant for signs of it.

But I am saying that it is nowhere near as prevalent as some (media sources mainly) would like you to believe and that real serious steps are made to guard against it. The safeguarding policy at my work is reviewed every year and we get annual face to face training on how to protect children from abuse, how to spot signs of abuse, and how to report it and follow up on it.

This is all right and proper, I don't mind any of it, it's what needs to be done to protect children (and vulnerable adults).

However, there is a danger that the desire to protect goes to far and morphs into hysteria. In my opinion we're very close to crossing that line.

I work with children and vulnerable adults from some of the poorest areas of Scotland. Kids who have been left behind/abandoned by mainstream education or who through poverty or neglect or simple lack of opportunity have few positive experiences in their lives. When I'm out on sessions with these guys two things should be to the forefront of my mind -

1. is everyone safe? 2. is everyone having a positive, fun experience?

increasingly however that's joined by

3. Am I (or my colleagues, or my organisation) in any danger of being open to malicious/false/misguided allegations? How does the current situation look to an outsider?

Sometimes - in fact frequently - point 3 now comes ahead of point 2.

The hoops we have to jump through sometimes to make sure we are absolutely squeaky clean and completely safe from any rumours or allegations are ridiculous. But we have to do it to protect the reputation of ourselves and the organisation - even if that comes at the detriment of the child's experience.

Morale wise, it's pretty horrific to be honest. It is certainly rapidly approaching the stage where I just don't want to put myself in that firing line.

A child coming for a hug during a session is a daily challenge. Kids becoming attached to you is a constant issue. Again at a recent event I had a child who had been on a session with me before come running up to me at the start and jump about looking for attention. Throughout the session he was trying to hold my hand and insisting that he was always in my group when we split for tasks/games.

That's totally normal childlike behaviour. It's a great sign that the child has really enjoyed previous sessions and is engaged in the tasks we're doing. And it's very uncomfortable, and potentially dangerous, for me, to the extent that I actively worry about it and go to great lengths to prevent it happening.

Situations like this happen all the time, across the sector I work in, we roleplay real life scenarios in training all the time - in many of them the 'correct' safeguarding 'answer' to the situation seems ridiculous but it's the way it has to be.

Should it be like that? Its a really difficult question and I don't have the answers.

I ended up working with kids almost by accident, filling in for colleagues who are under-resourced. It would frankly be easier for me just to stop, and it's something I consider more and more.

And it's not just me. There are fewer and fewer men in my sector choosing to work with kids.

As someone said earlier this is made worse by the fact that often we'll be the only positive male role models in these kids lives - I imagine that'll be even worse for those who are volunteering their time as football coaches.

It's a horrible, horrible world we live in.

To be honest I don't think my morale as someone working in this sector could be lower at the moment. The person on the radio call in show I was talking about wasn't just a random who had phoned in with an extreme view, it was a woman from some sort of child advocacy group (I missed the start of the show so didn't get her name) who had been invited on to comment, she was pretty much saying that any man who worked with children should be interviewed by the police before being allowed to continue.

Hearing someone who should know better effectively saying I must be a paedo because I'm a man working with kids is like a kick in the teeth.

Apologies for the thread derailment, again I'm not trying to take away from the very real incidents which have happened and which no doubt are happening. My feeling uncomfortable is nothing compared to the horrific suffering some of these people have been through, I have nothing but admiration for those coming forward.

But as a society we have to look very long and hard at this world we're building.

I concur with your sentiments. I coach youths including my wee bboy and they copy what they see on the telly with players running over to the coach when they score an important goal. What do you do. Do you not let them hug you in the excitement. I'm even wary of cuddling my own sun in case it's deemed not right. If we end up this thinking of every action we do its not a great prospect for the feature and the kids are confused. The quicker we weed out everybody involved in this scandal the better. Those that covered it up are just as culpable.

[lapsedhibee]

Just want to make clear that I'm not trying to belittle or put down people's legitimate fears. There is absolutely no doubt that this abuse happened and it should have been prevented, we all as a society to some extent played a part in that by turning a blind eye.

I'm also not trying to say that abuse doesn't still go on today. Of course it does, and we should all be vigilant for signs of it.

But I am saying that it is nowhere near as prevalent as some (media sources mainly) would like you to believe and that real serious steps are made to guard against it. The safeguarding policy at my work is reviewed every year and we get annual face to face training on how to protect children from abuse, how to spot signs of abuse, and how to report it and follow up on it.

This is all right and proper, I don't mind any of it, it's what needs to be done to protect children (and vulnerable adults).

However, there is a danger that the desire to protect goes to far and morphs into hysteria. In my opinion we're very close to crossing that line.

I work with children and vulnerable adults from some of the poorest areas of Scotland. Kids who have been left behind/abandoned by mainstream education or who through poverty or neglect or simple lack of opportunity have few positive experiences in their lives. When I'm out on sessions with these guys two things should be to the forefront of my mind -

1. is everyone safe? 2. is everyone having a positive, fun experience?

increasingly however that's joined by

3. Am I (or my colleagues, or my organisation) in any danger of being open to malicious/false/misguided allegations? How does the current situation look to an outsider?

Sometimes - in fact frequently - point 3 now comes ahead of point 2.

The hoops we have to jump through sometimes to make sure we are absolutely squeaky clean and completely safe from any rumours or allegations are ridiculous. But we have to do it to protect the reputation of ourselves and the organisation - even if that comes at the detriment of the child's experience.

Morale wise, it's pretty horrific to be honest. It is certainly rapidly approaching the stage where I just don't want to put myself in that firing line.

A child coming for a hug during a session is a daily challenge. Kids becoming attached to you is a constant issue. Again at a recent event I had a child who had been on a session with me before come running up to me at the start and jump about looking for attention. Throughout the session he was trying to hold my hand and insisting that he was always in my group when we split for tasks/games.

That's totally normal childlike behaviour. It's a great sign that the child has really enjoyed previous sessions and is engaged in the tasks we're doing. And it's very uncomfortable, and potentially dangerous, for me, to the extent that I actively worry about it and go to great lengths to prevent it happening.

Situations like this happen all the time, across the sector I work in, we roleplay real life scenarios in training all the time - in many of them the 'correct' safeguarding 'answer' to the situation seems ridiculous but it's the way it has to be.

Should it be like that? Its a really difficult question and I don't have the answers.

I ended up working with kids almost by accident, filling in for colleagues who are under-resourced. It would frankly be easier for me just to stop, and it's something I consider more and more.

And it's not just me. There are fewer and fewer men in my sector choosing to work with kids.

As someone said earlier this is made worse by the fact that often we'll be the only positive male role models in these kids lives - I imagine that'll be even worse for those who are volunteering their time as football coaches.

It's a horrible, horrible world we live in.

To be honest I don't think my morale as someone working in this sector could be lower at the moment. The person on the radio call in show I was talking about wasn't just a random who had phoned in with an extreme view, it was a woman from some sort of child advocacy group (I missed the start of the show so didn't get her name) who had been invited on to comment, she was pretty much saying that any man who worked with children should be interviewed by the police before being allowed to continue.

Hearing someone who should know better effectively saying I must be a paedo because I'm a man working with kids is like a kick in the teeth.

Apologies for the thread derailment, again I'm not trying to take away from the very real incidents which have happened and which no doubt are happening. My feeling uncomfortable is nothing compared to the horrific suffering some of these people have been through, I have nothing but admiration for those coming forward.

But as a society we have to look very long and hard at this world we're building.

:top marks

[Keith_M]

A few years back, when I lived in Alloa, I was driving through the town and saw a child of about three years of age running along the path beside a main road. She was quite obviously alone, in tears and heading towards a major roundabout (next to the old brewery). It was the middle of the day and the road was very busy, so I doubt very much that I was the only person who noticed this.

Now, put yourself in that situation, as a guy alone in a car, seeing a child looking lost, upset and in potential danger. What would you do?

I was driving in the opposite direction and did an immediate U turn (much to the annoyance of some other drivers). I pulled up just in front of the little girl and had to stop her running some how, but obviously I couldn't touch her in case somebody got the wrong idea, so I just put my arms wide and told her as gently as I could to stop, which she did. On asking her where she was going, she said 'home', which she knew was in Clackmannan (roughly two miles away).

This was in the days before absolutely everybody had mobile phones, and there's a police station about half a mile away I could have taken her to, but that would have meant putting her in my car, which I felt very uncomfortable about. I'm a father of two that absolutely adores children, so at that point, that little girl couldn't have been more safe even if she had been with her own parents. The thing is, that doesn't matter when it comes to how other people might have perceived the situation.

By a stroke of luck, after a couple of minutes of deliberating what to do, one of my neighbours, who was a Nursery school teacher, walked past and she took the little girl by the hand and took her back in the direction she came from. The neighbour, Mrs Mitchell, came to my house later and told me the girl's mum was at a friends house just up the road from where I found her, and the girl was supposed to be playing in the garden, but got upset and decided to go home on her own.


The most ridiculous part of the whole event was that I was a nervous wreck the whole time, which surely can't be right. :dunno:

[JimBHibees]

A few years back, when I lived in Alloa, I was driving through the town and saw a child of about three years of age running along the path beside a main road. She was quite obviously alone, in tears and heading towards a major roundabout (next to the old brewery). It was the middle of the day and the road was very busy, so I doubt very much that I was the only person who noticed this.

Now, put yourself in that situation, as a guy alone in a car, seeing a child looking lost, upset and in potential danger. What would you do?

I was driving in the opposite direction and did an immediate U turn (much to the annoyance of some other drivers). I pulled up just in front of the little girl and had to stop her running some how, but obviously I couldn't touch her in case somebody got the wrong idea, so I just put my arms wide and told her as gently as I could to stop, which she did. On asking her where she was going, she said 'home', which she knew was in Clackmannan (roughly two miles away).

This was in the days before absolutely everybody had mobile phones, and there's a police station about half a mile away I could have taken her to, but that would have meant putting her in my car, which I felt very uncomfortable about. I'm a father of two that absolutely adores children, so at that point, that little girl couldn't have been more safe even if she had been with her own parents. The thing is, that doesn't matter when it comes to how other people might have perceived the situation.

By a stroke of luck, after a couple of minutes of deliberating what to do, one of my neighbours, who was a a Nursery school teacher, walked past and she took the little girl by the hand and took her back in the direction she came from. The neighbour, Mrs Mitchell, came to my house later and told me the girl's mum was at a friends house just up the road from where I found her, and the girl was supposed to be playing in the garden, but got upset and decided to go home on her own.


The most ridiculous part of the whole event was that I was a nervous wreck the whole time, which surely can't be right. :dunno:

The bottom line is that you did exactly the right thing, can you imagine how you would have felt if you had done nothing and the kid had then been harmed whether by someone else or running into the road.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The bottom line is that you did exactly the right thing, can you imagine how you would have felt if you had done nothing and the kid had then been harmed whether by someone else or running into the road.

Indeed he did, but his discomfort is indicative of what society has become, where you now have to think twice before you carry out an act of kindness or what should actually be a social responsibility just in case other people will think you have a nefarious purpose. What makes it even more sad is to think that there must have been occasions where folk were in a position to do what Keekaboo did but didn't because of the pressure they felt .... its perhaps a bit extreme, but whose to say that there haven't been times where inaction brought on by social pressures hasn't actually lead to a tragedy that could have been prevented.

I remember driving back into Galashiels from the hospital one day, a distance of about 3 miles, and we passed a couple of young girls about half a mile from the hospital one of whom was limping badly, they had obviously been to the hospital and were heading back into town .... because I had my wife with me in the car I stopped and gave the girls a lift home, if my wife hadn't been in the car I wouldn't have stopped, the girls looked about 15 or 16 and I just wouldn't have taken the risk if I had been alone.

[Smartie]

For what it's worth, the rumour I heard about the "former Rangers captain" was a horrendous misunderstanding over a genuine act of kindness like has been described.

[Peevemor]

For what it's worth, the rumour I heard about the "former Rangers captain" was a horrendous misunderstanding over a genuine act of kindness like has been described.
IIRC a girl had hurt herself falling off her bike (or something) and he stopped to help her, eventually giving her a lift home.

[CropleyWasGod]

To complicate things....

John James has become involved. I don't want to post any links, for the sake of this site, so you'll have to do your own digging.

If the admins think my post is inappropriate, please delete it. I'll not argue :)

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[HNA4]

To complicate things....

John James has become involved. I don't want to post any links, for the sake of this site, so you'll have to do your own digging.

If the admins think my post is inappropriate, please delete it. I'll not argue :)

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

No issue with that CWG.

[oldbutdim]

To complicate things....

John James has become involved. I don't want to post any links, for the sake of this site, so you'll have to do your own digging.

If the admins think my post is inappropriate, please delete it. I'll not argue :)

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk


Apologies for naming the alleged miscreant - the above is what I referred to.

:thumbsup:

[Stonewall]

Looks like lawyers are now involved. Wonder if JJs sources are as good as he thinks.

[lapsedhibee]

For what it's worth, the rumour I heard about the "former Rangers captain" was a horrendous misunderstanding over a genuine act of kindness like has been described.


IIRC a girl had hurt herself falling off her bike (or something) and he stopped to help her, eventually giving her a lift home.

Any idea if the fat slug Traynor had any input into these versions? :dunno:

[Off the bar]

Looks like lawyers are now involved. Wonder if JJs sources are as good as he thinks.

The solicitors mentioned in jjs blog just tweeted to deny representing the named party

[blackpoolhibs]

the solicitors mentioned in jjs blog just tweeted to deny representing the named party


oooofff

[Peevemor]

Any idea if the fat slug Traynor had any input into these versions? :dunno:
IIRC, the incident was reported in the press (I'm not sure which paper) and the child molester chants sprung from this. Pretty out of order.

[Off the bar]

oooofff

The page on his site with the (presumably fake) cease and desist letter now removed, if anyone didn't take JJ and his allegations with a pinch of salt, now would be a good time to start.

[magpie1892]

The page on his site with the (presumably fake) cease and desist letter now removed, if anyone didn't take JJ and his allegations with a pinch of salt, now would be a good time to start.

The accusations are still up @ 6.17pm, 10/12, and more published today, naming the same player.

I hope, for his sake, his sources are good, but I've a triple-sourced story about the same player sexually abusing a rangers apprentice that every sportsdesk in Scotland had 20 years ago, but never printed.

[CropleyWasGod]

The accusations are still up @ 6.17pm, 10/12, and more published today, naming the same player.

I hope, for his sake, his sources are good, but I've a triple-sourced story about the same player sexually abusing a rangers apprentice that every sportsdesk in Scotland had 20 years ago, but never printed.
So why would he publish a fake letter from the lawyers?

Other than to crowdfund for his legal fees? [emoji48]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Skol]

So why would he publish a fake letter from the lawyers?

Other than to crowdfund for his legal fees? [emoji48]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

I reckon it was a fake and someone trying to out him

[CropleyWasGod]

I reckon it was a fake and someone trying to out him
The lawyers confirmed it was a fake.



Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[magpie1892]

So why would he publish a fake letter from the lawyers?

Other than to crowdfund for his legal fees? [emoji48]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

It was in the comments of the 'What are we waiting for' piece. Whether or not he wrote it in his own comments, I don't know, and I don't really care. It seems unlikely to me, but it's not really relevant to the main issue: his repeated outing of a particular player for sex crimes.

JJ is an utter dipstick; he incessantly begs for money while bragging about how amazing he is (and takes even the mildest criticism extremely poorly), but his info is generally pretty good, and he's certainly on the right track with this particular player.

[Broken Gnome]

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/807709532537454592?s=09

[Cosmic Truth]

So why would he publish a fake letter from the lawyers?

Other than to crowdfund for his legal fees? [emoji48]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Is that a definite? I haven't a clue abut the internet, but is it possible a supporter on Scotland's newest club faked a letter, to try and shut him up?

[CropleyWasGod]

Is that a definite? I haven't a clue abut the internet, but is it possible a supporter on Scotland's newest club faked a letter, to try and shut him up?
There was a letter posted on his blog, purporting to be from the individual's solicitors, ordering him to "cease and desist "

The solicitors in question then tweeted to say that the letter was a fake, and that they have never acted for the said individual.

Who faked what is too much for me on a Sunday morning [emoji1]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Cosmic Truth]

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/807709532537454592?s=09

Call me cynical, but we only have the word of some unnamed spokesman (I wonder who that could be?) for The Rangers that Rangers contacted the police. For some reason, our "journalists" appear to have taken this as gospel, yet go over every other club with a fine tooth comb.

Hibs are being blamed for not reporting Neely to the police, and Rangers wouldn't have signed him if Hibs had reported it. That's what the barstewards are pushing here.

Here's my take on it. It was a different time back then, and people didn't want a scandal at their football, youth, rugby, swimming etc club. If someone was accused of behaving inappropriately with youngsters, they were moved on. Rangers have done the exact same thing as Hibs here, but our papers are covering up for Rangers, and blaming Hibs for everything. Rangers were, to use a David Murray term "Duped" by Hibs, according to our press. :rolleyes:

The reporting of Neely has quietly changed from he said something inappropriate, to he abused youngsters at Rangers. It's a drip feed of information designed to protect Rangers. The same media who doorstepped McCafferty in Northern Ireland, still haven't been able to contact Graeme Souness, and Walter Smith, who, I presume, are still unavailable for comment. I'm convinced Rangers are using the fact that the father of the youngster who was abused at Rangers was a policeman, to say the club contacted the police. It's debatable if we'll ever find out, as, up 'till now, our press appear to have no appetite for investigating rangers

The media in Scotland have licked Rangers artses for decades now, but to cover up their lack of action over Neely, in articles in which they slam other clubs for their inaction over reporting people who abused youngsters, is a new low.

[Cosmic Truth]

There was a letter posted on his blog, purporting to be from the individual's solicitors, ordering him to "cease and desist "

The solicitors in question then tweeted to say that the letter was a fake, and that they have never acted for the said individual.

Who faked what is too much for me on a Sunday morning [emoji1]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

:greengrin

It's faking out of order!

[Cosmic Truth]

So, to sum up, it's all Kenny Waugh's fault! It's a pity Kenny isn't here to defend himself! I think there's more chance our journalists would hire a spiritualist to contact Kenny from beyond the grave than there is of them doorstepping Souness, and "Walter". :rolleyes:

Former Hibs chairman ‘sacked coach at centre of sex abuse scandal but didn’t tell police’, source claims

Written by Graham McKendry, 11/12/2016

A TALENT-spotter at the centre of the football sex abuse scandal was previously sacked for molesting children, The Sunday Post has been told.

Disgraced football coach Gordon Neely – this week accused of rape by one person and indecent behaviour by another – was dismissed by Hibs in 1986 for abusing two boys, a well-placed source has claimed.

But the Edinburgh club’s former chairman is said to have hushed up the claims and didn’t call in the police for fear of the damage it would do to Hibs’ reputation.

And that means that a vital chance 30 years ago to blow the whistle both on Neely’s alleged behaviour and the wider issue of sex abuse in football was missed.

As a consequence, Neely was free to move to Rangers with his reputation as a sought-after talent-spotter intact.

At Ibrox, he had four more years of involvement in football and access to vulnerable youngsters. His time at Rangers was halted, however, in 1990 when then-manager Graeme Souness sacked him after a youth team player complained to his father that Neely had abused him.

But Neely would never have got the job at Rangers had the Ibrox club been aware of the fact he had been axed by Hibs for molesting two boys on the club’s books.

Hibs said on Monday that the club had “no record” of any complaints against Neely while he was an employee.

But sports journalist Ray Hepburn has now revealed that former Hibs chairman Kenny Waugh told him he sacked Neely after complaints from two sets of parents that he had sexually abused their sons.

Worried at the negative impact a child abuse scandal would have on Hibs’ ability to recruit young talent, Waugh then decided not to involve the police.

The revelation comes in the week it emerged Neely is feared to have carried out a string of sexual assaults on young players while at Edinburgh youth side Hutchison Vale, before he started at Hibs.

Hepburn, a close friend of Waugh, revealed: “Kenny wanted it dealt with swiftly to re-affirm Easter Road was a safe place for youngsters. So Rangers were denied knowledge of Neely’s activities – and they would certainly never have employed him, had they known.

“Kenny told me the parents said their children had been molested. He was a decent man and was rightly appalled.

“But he was very worried that if anyone found out, Hibs would lose out on the talent the club needed to try and compete with Hearts and the Old Firm.

“He swore me to secrecy. I’m setting the record straight on Kenny dealing with it as sadly he passed away in 2015 and couldn’t do that himself. I’d be very happy to assist if the police want to speak to me about this information.”

Hepburn added: “Kenny told me in the spring of 1986 what happened over a drink in the Centre Court Bar in Colinton, Edinburgh.

“I remember it absolutely clearly. We were both football people – but we were friends as well and our families socialised together.

“Kenny and his wife Dorothy were guests at my home in Perthshire for family events like birthdays and anniversaries.

“It was a huge year for Edinburgh football after Hearts were pipped for the title on the last day of the season.

“Kenny was staggered when the Neely situation landed on Hibs and told me in the strictest confidence.”

He added: “Those were different times. That was the way these things were dealt with. I think we are going to hear a lot more of the same in the coming months.”

Neely began his coaching career with Edina Hibs and Hutchison Vale boys’ clubs in Edinburgh.

He helped to teach a number of talented youngsters who went on to enjoy successful football careers.

Neely worked for Dundee United to recruit promising players to the club before he joined Hibernian.

Hepburn added: “It was a different time. Waugh’s treatment of Neely was kept on a need-to-know basis.

“So it doesn’t surprise me that nothing was written down at the club or, if there was, that no record has survived of it.

“This was before you had big Human Resources departments and detailed written employment procedures.

“His approach was two-fold.

“Firstly, to get Neely out of Easter Road instantly – that was simple, his feet never touched the ground.

“Secondly, he had to make sure parents would be happy and secure sending their boys to Hibs, a club with an exemplary record of producing top young stars.

“Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen were hoovering up all the young talent in the central belt and Hibs, with their lesser budget, had to get their share.

“He spoke with the parents involved and the agreed response was not to involve the police. Back then, the chairman’s word would have been final – and if he wanted it kept quiet then that’s what would have happened.”

Neely was dismissed by Souness at a meeting attended by the then Ibrox manager and his assistant Walter Smith in 1990. The showdown happened after a youngster confided in his dad, a serving police officer, about an abuse incident involving Neely. His axing effectively ended his career in football.

On Tuesday, victim Colin Anderson, 49, told how Neely sexually assaulted him three times while he was a youth at Hutchison Vale, adding: “He’s the Jimmy Savile of Scottish football.”

Neely died of cancer two years ago, aged 62. Some reports in 1986 suggested Neely had been “poached” by Rangers but it’s believed that version of events may have been placed with journalists by Neely himself.

Last night, abuse campaigners said a golden opportunity to nail a prolific child abuser had potentially been missed.

Andy Lavery, founder of survivors’ group White Flowers Alba, said: “If this is true, it is an absolute disgrace. I’m beyond angry to hear this. The police should have been brought in. Neely went to Rangers with a clean bill of health.

“People have suffered across Britain because of the inability in the past of football clubs to deal with this.

“Every time they’ve not done something they have failed children.”

Open Secret is a community-based organisation which provides support for people affected by childhood abuse.

Its chief executive, Janine Rennie, said: “Sadly this is something we deal with time and time again when child abusers have not been brought to justice and have gone on to abuse other children.

“Often it’s more about reputation than protecting children. I’m very concerned about that but not surprised.”

A Hibs spokesman said last night: “We would encourage Mr Hepburn to go to the police with his information.”

For more information on abuse go to www.whiteflowersalba.org.uk (http://www.whiteflowersalba.org.uk/). If you’re a victim of the scandal engulfing football, please contact The Sunday Post on 0141 567 2812.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/missed-chance-to-stop-abuser/

[blackpoolhibs]

So, to sum up, it's all Kenny Waugh's fault! It's a pity Kenny isn't here to defend himself! I think there's more chance our journalists would hire a spiritualist to contact Kenny from beyond the grave than there is of them doorstepping Souness, and "Walter". :rolleyes:

Former Hibs chairman ‘sacked coach at centre of sex abuse scandal but didn’t tell police’, source claims

Written by Graham McKendry, 11/12/2016

A TALENT-spotter at the centre of the football sex abuse scandal was previously sacked for molesting children, The Sunday Post has been told.

Disgraced football coach Gordon Neely – this week accused of rape by one person and indecent behaviour by another – was dismissed by Hibs in 1986 for abusing two boys, a well-placed source has claimed.

But the Edinburgh club’s former chairman is said to have hushed up the claims and didn’t call in the police for fear of the damage it would do to Hibs’ reputation.

And that means that a vital chance 30 years ago to blow the whistle both on Neely’s alleged behaviour and the wider issue of sex abuse in football was missed.

As a consequence, Neely was free to move to Rangers with his reputation as a sought-after talent-spotter intact.

At Ibrox, he had four more years of involvement in football and access to vulnerable youngsters. His time at Rangers was halted, however, in 1990 when then-manager Graeme Souness sacked him after a youth team player complained to his father that Neely had abused him.

But Neely would never have got the job at Rangers had the Ibrox club been aware of the fact he had been axed by Hibs for molesting two boys on the club’s books.

Hibs said on Monday that the club had “no record” of any complaints against Neely while he was an employee.

But sports journalist Ray Hepburn has now revealed that former Hibs chairman Kenny Waugh told him he sacked Neely after complaints from two sets of parents that he had sexually abused their sons.

Worried at the negative impact a child abuse scandal would have on Hibs’ ability to recruit young talent, Waugh then decided not to involve the police.

The revelation comes in the week it emerged Neely is feared to have carried out a string of sexual assaults on young players while at Edinburgh youth side Hutchison Vale, before he started at Hibs.

Hepburn, a close friend of Waugh, revealed: “Kenny wanted it dealt with swiftly to re-affirm Easter Road was a safe place for youngsters. So Rangers were denied knowledge of Neely’s activities – and they would certainly never have employed him, had they known.

“Kenny told me the parents said their children had been molested. He was a decent man and was rightly appalled.

“But he was very worried that if anyone found out, Hibs would lose out on the talent the club needed to try and compete with Hearts and the Old Firm.

“He swore me to secrecy. I’m setting the record straight on Kenny dealing with it as sadly he passed away in 2015 and couldn’t do that himself. I’d be very happy to assist if the police want to speak to me about this information.”

Hepburn added: “Kenny told me in the spring of 1986 what happened over a drink in the Centre Court Bar in Colinton, Edinburgh.

“I remember it absolutely clearly. We were both football people – but we were friends as well and our families socialised together.

“Kenny and his wife Dorothy were guests at my home in Perthshire for family events like birthdays and anniversaries.

“It was a huge year for Edinburgh football after Hearts were pipped for the title on the last day of the season.

“Kenny was staggered when the Neely situation landed on Hibs and told me in the strictest confidence.”

He added: “Those were different times. That was the way these things were dealt with. I think we are going to hear a lot more of the same in the coming months.”

Neely began his coaching career with Edina Hibs and Hutchison Vale boys’ clubs in Edinburgh.

He helped to teach a number of talented youngsters who went on to enjoy successful football careers.

Neely worked for Dundee United to recruit promising players to the club before he joined Hibernian.

Hepburn added: “It was a different time. Waugh’s treatment of Neely was kept on a need-to-know basis.

“So it doesn’t surprise me that nothing was written down at the club or, if there was, that no record has survived of it.

“This was before you had big Human Resources departments and detailed written employment procedures.

“His approach was two-fold.

“Firstly, to get Neely out of Easter Road instantly – that was simple, his feet never touched the ground.

“Secondly, he had to make sure parents would be happy and secure sending their boys to Hibs, a club with an exemplary record of producing top young stars.

“Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen were hoovering up all the young talent in the central belt and Hibs, with their lesser budget, had to get their share.

“He spoke with the parents involved and the agreed response was not to involve the police. Back then, the chairman’s word would have been final – and if he wanted it kept quiet then that’s what would have happened.”

Neely was dismissed by Souness at a meeting attended by the then Ibrox manager and his assistant Walter Smith in 1990. The showdown happened after a youngster confided in his dad, a serving police officer, about an abuse incident involving Neely. His axing effectively ended his career in football.

On Tuesday, victim Colin Anderson, 49, told how Neely sexually assaulted him three times while he was a youth at Hutchison Vale, adding: “He’s the Jimmy Savile of Scottish football.”

Neely died of cancer two years ago, aged 62. Some reports in 1986 suggested Neely had been “poached” by Rangers but it’s believed that version of events may have been placed with journalists by Neely himself.

Last night, abuse campaigners said a golden opportunity to nail a prolific child abuser had potentially been missed.

Andy Lavery, founder of survivors’ group White Flowers Alba, said: “If this is true, it is an absolute disgrace. I’m beyond angry to hear this. The police should have been brought in. Neely went to Rangers with a clean bill of health.

“People have suffered across Britain because of the inability in the past of football clubs to deal with this.

“Every time they’ve not done something they have failed children.”

Open Secret is a community-based organisation which provides support for people affected by childhood abuse.

Its chief executive, Janine Rennie, said: “Sadly this is something we deal with time and time again when child abusers have not been brought to justice and have gone on to abuse other children.

“Often it’s more about reputation than protecting children. I’m very concerned about that but not surprised.”

A Hibs spokesman said last night: “We would encourage Mr Hepburn to go to the police with his information.”

For more information on abuse go to www.whiteflowersalba.org.uk (http://www.whiteflowersalba.org.uk/). If you’re a victim of the scandal engulfing football, please contact The Sunday Post on 0141 567 2812.

Something clearly stinks with that statement, as i seem to remember thinking when he went to the hun that it was coaches now they were taking from us rather than players.

I dont think there was any sacking, as he went from Hibs to sevco after getting a better offer. And Neely was a big hun too and his aim in life was to get to ibrox in some capacity.

[CentreLine]

So, to sum up, it's all Kenny Waugh's fault! It's a pity Kenny isn't here to defend himself! I think there's more chance our journalists would hire a spiritualist to contact Kenny from beyond the grave than there is of them doorstepping Souness, and "Walter". :rolleyes:

Former Hibs chairman ‘sacked coach at centre of sex abuse scandal but didn’t tell police’, source claims

Written by Graham McKendry, 11/12/2016

A TALENT-spotter at the centre of the football sex abuse scandal was previously sacked for molesting children, The Sunday Post has been told.

Disgraced football coach Gordon Neely – this week accused of rape by one person and indecent behaviour by another – was dismissed by Hibs in 1986 for abusing two boys, a well-placed source has claimed.

But the Edinburgh club’s former chairman is said to have hushed up the claims and didn’t call in the police for fear of the damage it would do to Hibs’ reputation.

And that means that a vital chance 30 years ago to blow the whistle both on Neely’s alleged behaviour and the wider issue of sex abuse in football was missed.

As a consequence, Neely was free to move to Rangers with his reputation as a sought-after talent-spotter intact.

At Ibrox, he had four more years of involvement in football and access to vulnerable youngsters. His time at Rangers was halted, however, in 1990 when then-manager Graeme Souness sacked him after a youth team player complained to his father that Neely had abused him.

But Neely would never have got the job at Rangers had the Ibrox club been aware of the fact he had been axed by Hibs for molesting two boys on the club’s books.

Hibs said on Monday that the club had “no record” of any complaints against Neely while he was an employee.

But sports journalist Ray Hepburn has now revealed that former Hibs chairman Kenny Waugh told him he sacked Neely after complaints from two sets of parents that he had sexually abused their sons.

Worried at the negative impact a child abuse scandal would have on Hibs’ ability to recruit young talent, Waugh then decided not to involve the police.

The revelation comes in the week it emerged Neely is feared to have carried out a string of sexual assaults on young players while at Edinburgh youth side Hutchison Vale, before he started at Hibs.

Hepburn, a close friend of Waugh, revealed: “Kenny wanted it dealt with swiftly to re-affirm Easter Road was a safe place for youngsters. So Rangers were denied knowledge of Neely’s activities – and they would certainly never have employed him, had they known.

“Kenny told me the parents said their children had been molested. He was a decent man and was rightly appalled.

“But he was very worried that if anyone found out, Hibs would lose out on the talent the club needed to try and compete with Hearts and the Old Firm.

“He swore me to secrecy. I’m setting the record straight on Kenny dealing with it as sadly he passed away in 2015 and couldn’t do that himself. I’d be very happy to assist if the police want to speak to me about this information.”

Hepburn added: “Kenny told me in the spring of 1986 what happened over a drink in the Centre Court Bar in Colinton, Edinburgh.

“I remember it absolutely clearly. We were both football people – but we were friends as well and our families socialised together.

“Kenny and his wife Dorothy were guests at my home in Perthshire for family events like birthdays and anniversaries.

“It was a huge year for Edinburgh football after Hearts were pipped for the title on the last day of the season.

“Kenny was staggered when the Neely situation landed on Hibs and told me in the strictest confidence.”

He added: “Those were different times. That was the way these things were dealt with. I think we are going to hear a lot more of the same in the coming months.”

Neely began his coaching career with Edina Hibs and Hutchison Vale boys’ clubs in Edinburgh.

He helped to teach a number of talented youngsters who went on to enjoy successful football careers.

Neely worked for Dundee United to recruit promising players to the club before he joined Hibernian.

Hepburn added: “It was a different time. Waugh’s treatment of Neely was kept on a need-to-know basis.

“So it doesn’t surprise me that nothing was written down at the club or, if there was, that no record has survived of it.

“This was before you had big Human Resources departments and detailed written employment procedures.

“His approach was two-fold.

“Firstly, to get Neely out of Easter Road instantly – that was simple, his feet never touched the ground.

“Secondly, he had to make sure parents would be happy and secure sending their boys to Hibs, a club with an exemplary record of producing top young stars.

“Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen were hoovering up all the young talent in the central belt and Hibs, with their lesser budget, had to get their share.

“He spoke with the parents involved and the agreed response was not to involve the police. Back then, the chairman’s word would have been final – and if he wanted it kept quiet then that’s what would have happened.”

Neely was dismissed by Souness at a meeting attended by the then Ibrox manager and his assistant Walter Smith in 1990. The showdown happened after a youngster confided in his dad, a serving police officer, about an abuse incident involving Neely. His axing effectively ended his career in football.

On Tuesday, victim Colin Anderson, 49, told how Neely sexually assaulted him three times while he was a youth at Hutchison Vale, adding: “He’s the Jimmy Savile of Scottish football.”

Neely died of cancer two years ago, aged 62. Some reports in 1986 suggested Neely had been “poached” by Rangers but it’s believed that version of events may have been placed with journalists by Neely himself.

Last night, abuse campaigners said a golden opportunity to nail a prolific child abuser had potentially been missed.

Andy Lavery, founder of survivors’ group White Flowers Alba, said: “If this is true, it is an absolute disgrace. I’m beyond angry to hear this. The police should have been brought in. Neely went to Rangers with a clean bill of health.

“People have suffered across Britain because of the inability in the past of football clubs to deal with this.

“Every time they’ve not done something they have failed children.”

Open Secret is a community-based organisation which provides support for people affected by childhood abuse.

Its chief executive, Janine Rennie, said: “Sadly this is something we deal with time and time again when child abusers have not been brought to justice and have gone on to abuse other children.

“Often it’s more about reputation than protecting children. I’m very concerned about that but not surprised.”

A Hibs spokesman said last night: “We would encourage Mr Hepburn to go to the police with his information.”

For more information on abuse go to www.whiteflowersalba.org.uk (http://www.whiteflowersalba.org.uk/). If you’re a victim of the scandal engulfing football, please contact The Sunday Post on 0141 567 2812.

This article makes some very good points and is thought provoking about an abhorrent situation. Right up to the point where it says "If you're a victim.........please call the Sunday Post". Why not the police? I find it sickening that newspapers are falling over themselves to sell papers on the back of this scandal.

[Cosmic Truth]

Something clearly stinks with that statement, as i seem to remember thinking when he went to the hun that it was coaches now they were taking from us rather than players.

I dont think there was any sacking, as he went from Hibs to sevco after getting a better offer. And Neely was a big hun too and his aim in life was to get to ibrox in some capacity.

I may be wrong here, but I think at the time Hibs were angry about Rangers approaching Neely. Also, I think Neely was at Dundee United when Walter Smith was there.

This stinks to high heaven. Rangers are being protected over their lack of action over Neely's abuse, by the same newspapers who are expressing their outrage at the lack of action by other clubs over the abuse of teenage boys.

Even though I hold our media in complete contempt, I didn't think they would act like this.

[Cosmic Truth]

This article makes some very good points and is thought provoking about an abhorrent situation. Right up to the point where it says "If you're a victim.........please call the Sunday Post". Why not the police? I find it sickening that newspapers are falling over themselves to sell papers on the back of this scandal.

Good point. I never even noticed that.

They're not falling over themselves to check if Rangers did contact the police, or speak to Souness, and "Walter". though.

[Cosmic Truth]

A strong condemnation of Hibs, and Celtic, in the comments section from this, ahem, "Hibs fan". :rolleyes:

John Smith (https://disqus.com/by/disqus_DbLDi0shvi/) • 13 minutes ago (https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/missed-chance-to-stop-abuser/#comment-3046698931) Makes me ashamed to be a Hibs fan. I honestly cant see me going back to Easter Road.
WHY oh WHY did Hibs not report him. Did they copy the deplorable actions of CELTIC? We all laughed at how uptight Celts got with claims that Big Jock Knew now its HIBS Knew :(

The only action has to be a full inquiry and if that means the same sanctions that PENN State got for covering it up so be it. It will send a clear signal to everyone in the game that CHILD ABUSE doesn't just hurt Kids it will hurt your club.

[ihibs7]

Something clearly stinks with that statement, as i seem to remember thinking when he went to the hun that it was coaches now they were taking from us rather than players.

I dont think there was any sacking, as he went from Hibs to sevco after getting a better offer. And Neely was a big hun too and his aim in life was to get to ibrox in some capacity.

That's my recollection - it says a lot about ray Hepburn that's he gone to the papers rather than the police.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

Alex Miller was Hibs manager and spent his entire playing career with Rangers.

He would definitely know of the abuse allegations so I can't believe he would not have given someone at Ibrox the heads -up on Neely.

[Cosmic Truth]

Alex Miller was Hibs manager and spent his entire playing career with Rangers.

He would definitely know of the abuse allegations so I can't believe he would not have given someone at Ibrox the heads -up on Neely.

This is a blatant Level 5 operation to deflect away from Rangers part in this.

This is a new low in Scottish journalism.

[livi hibs 1875]

Why are the police not at hepburns front door arresting him if he had all this information,

[Caversham Green]

I may be wrong here, but I think at the time Hibs were angry about Rangers approaching Neely. Also, I think Neely was at Dundee United when Walter Smith was there.

This stinks to high heaven. Rangers are being protected over their lack of action over Neely's abuse, by the same newspapers who are expressing their outrage at the lack of action by other clubs over the abuse of teenage boys.

Even though I hold our media in complete contempt, I didn't think they would act like this.

:agree: So was a certain Rangers legend who hasn't been named several times on this thread.

[vincipernoi]

A strong condemnation of Hibs, and Celtic, in the comments section from this, ahem, "Hibs fan". :rolleyes:

John Smith (https://disqus.com/by/disqus_DbLDi0shvi/) • 13 minutes ago (https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/missed-chance-to-stop-abuser/#comment-3046698931) Makes me ashamed to be a Hibs fan. I honestly cant see me going back to Easter Road.
WHY oh WHY did Hibs not report him. Did they copy the deplorable actions of CELTIC? We all laughed at how uptight Celts got with claims that Big Jock Knew now its HIBS Knew :(

The only action has to be a full inquiry and if that means the same sanctions that PENN State got for covering it up so be it. It will send a clear signal to everyone in the game that CHILD ABUSE doesn't just hurt Kids it will hurt your club.






didn't put much effort into making up a name did he?

[jacomo]

This is a blatant Level 5 operation to deflect away from Rangers part in this.

This is a new low in Scottish journalism.

Yup. The Rangers rush to the moral high ground on this is disgusting.

[greenginger]

This is a blatant Level 5 operation to deflect away from Rangers part in this.

This is a new low in Scottish journalism.


Another point made by the article is Hibs allowed Neely to evade justice by not reporting it to the police or informing Rangers of the alleged abuse.

It is pretty obvious Rangers never reported Neely either but that goes unmentioned. I also read somewhere that Neely went on to work for Falkirk after getting kicked out of Ibrox. I presume Rangers never contacted Falkirk, but that's not mentioned either.

Sorry , it was the other alleged perv. McCafferty who went on to Falkirk , not Neely.

[Betty Boop]

Let's not play the blame game here. Two abusers worked at Easter Road looks like that's a fact.

[CropleyWasGod]

Let's not play the blame game here. Two abusers worked at Easter Road looks like that's a fact.

I'm uncomfortable with using the word "fact". Just as Kenny Waugh isn't around to defend himself, neither is Neely. Neither is the ex-ref, or the guy at Thistle, or many of the alleged abusers down south.

I'd prefer a properly-led enquiry, with the appropriate action by the police, rather than trial by media. The alleged victims deserve nothing less.

[Wee Effen Bee]

After reading this thread , I thought I would add a couple of my own thoughts: no matter how hard we try to prevent it, abuse of children is widespread throughout all branches of society. Sorry, but for anyone to say it is not is totally wrong - just ask all charities or schools involved with the safety of children. No matter how many courses we go on and no matter how many training hours we put in, abusers will still be there.
So, the best thing we can do, is do the opposite of what we are 'hearing' they did in the past. Previously, we are told, things were hushed up and covered over. Now we must make sure that every youngster is given the platform to voice their concerns.
For those of you who may be worried about helping a child in distress, just think of them as your own. Don't let the worry of being accused of doing something wrong get in the way of protecting a vulnerable child - they need us to do the right thing.
On the Hepburn/Waugh scenario: Hepburn wanting to do the right thing - or bottling himself its all coming out in the wash? Whether he likes it or not, by remaining quiet about Neely, he was complicit in the whole (alleged) cover up. Please don't let this degenerate into a points scoring exercise on who was at fault first or who was worse, what would that do for the victims of this horrific episode?

[blackpoolhibs]

After reading this thread , I thought I would add a couple of my own thoughts: no matter how hard we try to prevent it, abuse of children is widespread throughout all branches of society. Sorry, but for anyone to say it is not is totally wrong - just ask all charities or schools involved with the safety of children. No matter how many courses we go on and no matter how many training hours we put in, abusers will still be there.
So, the best thing we can do, is do the opposite of what we are 'hearing' they did in the past. Previously, we are told, things were hushed up and covered over. Now we must make sure that every youngster is given the platform to voice their concerns.
For those of you who may be worried about helping a child in distress, just think of them as your own. Don't let the worry of being accused of doing something wrong get in the way of protecting a vulnerable child - they need us to do the right thing.
On the Hepburn/Waugh scenario: Hepburn wanting to do the right thing - or bottling himself its all coming out in the wash? Whether he likes it or not, by remaining quiet about Neely, he was complicit in the whole (alleged) cover up. Please don't let this degenerate into a points scoring exercise on who was at fault first or who was worse, what would that do for the victims of this horrific episode?

I dont want anything hushed up, but i dont believe a word of what he's saying, simply because Neely was poached by sevco from Hibs. There was no sacking, no time away from the club, he left Hibs to sign for The Rangers.

[heretoday]

After reading this thread , I thought I would add a couple of my own thoughts: no matter how hard we try to prevent it, abuse of children is widespread throughout all branches of society. Sorry, but for anyone to say it is not is totally wrong - just ask all charities or schools involved with the safety of children. No matter how many courses we go on and no matter how many training hours we put in, abusers will still be there.
So, the best thing we can do, is do the opposite of what we are 'hearing' they did in the past. Previously, we are told, things were hushed up and covered over. Now we must make sure that every youngster is given the platform to voice their concerns.
For those of you who may be worried about helping a child in distress, just think of them as your own. Don't let the worry of being accused of doing something wrong get in the way of protecting a vulnerable child - they need us to do the right thing.
On the Hepburn/Waugh scenario: Hepburn wanting to do the right thing - or bottling himself its all coming out in the wash? Whether he likes it or not, by remaining quiet about Neely, he was complicit in the whole (alleged) cover up. Please don't let this degenerate into a points scoring exercise on who was at fault first or who was worse, what would that do for the victims of this horrific episode?

Good post. We could spend the rest of eternity trying to right the wrongs of the past.

[Wee Effen Bee]

I dont want anything hushed up, but i dont believe a word of what he's saying, simply because Neely was poached by sevco from Hibs. There was no sacking, no time away from the club, he left Hibs to sign for The Rangers.

But that version of events has been called into question too. So, unless you can back this up 100% of course, we have to go with what we know and what is out there.

[blackpoolhibs]

But that version of events has been called into question too. So, unless you can back this up 100% of course, we have to go with what we know and what is out there.

Who has called it into question?

[givescotlandfreedom]

Another point made by the article is Hibs allowed Neely to evade justice by not reporting it to the police or informing Rangers of the alleged abuse.

It is pretty obvious Rangers never reported Neely either but that goes unmentioned.

The media are getting sick beyond belief now. I expect them to try to unsettle our players and make sure we lose and are hammered whenever possible but this is a disgusting attempt to rip apart our club whilst blatantly lying and whitewashing another. As someone said this is a new low.
Proper enquiries are needed to establish what's gone on, who did what and how we can make absolutely sure these things can never ever happen again. Not points scoring.

[Cosmic Truth]

didn't put much effort into making up a name did he?

:greengrin

[Cosmic Truth]

Another point made by the article is Hibs allowed Neely to evade justice by not reporting it to the police or informing Rangers of the alleged abuse.

It is pretty obvious Rangers never reported Neely either but that goes unmentioned. I also read somewhere that Neely went on to work for Falkirk after getting kicked out of Ibrox. I presume Rangers never contacted Falkirk, but that's not mentioned either.

Sorry , it was the other alleged perv. McCafferty who went on to Falkirk , not Neely.

Unmentioned? The Sun quoted an unnamed Rangers spokesman who claimed the club did contact the police. It's just that the most high profile club in Scotland at the time, sacked a coach for abusing boys, and reported him to the police, but no count heard anything about it for 26 years, then BAM it hit the front page!

So to sum up, it seems the narrative is that Rangers acted with the kind of staunch dignity you'd expect from the club, but as for those "beadrattlers" at Celtic, and Hibs, well what did you expect from them?

[Cosmic Truth]

I'm uncomfortable with using the word "fact". Just as Kenny Waugh isn't around to defend himself, neither is Neely. Neither is the ex-ref, or the guy at Thistle, or many of the alleged abusers down south.

I'd prefer a properly-led enquiry, with the appropriate action by the police, rather than trial by media. The alleged victims deserve nothing less.

Kenny isn't being accused of being an abuser. Just that he didn't report it to the police.

I agree, we need an independent inquiry into the abuse of youngsters in all walks of life, and sports. I'm not looking to hammer people who didn't report it to the police at the time, as that seems to be the way things were done back then, but the people who carried out the abuse have got to face justice, and lessons learned so this type of thing doesn't happen again.

[greenginger]

I dont want anything hushed up, but i dont believe a word of what he's saying, simply because Neely was poached by sevco from Hibs. There was no sacking, no time away from the club, he left Hibs to sign for The Rangers.


A copy of a page from The Souness Revolution 1986,



https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uOjuCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT133&lpg=PT133&dq=coach+gordon+neely+leaves+hibs+for+rangers+1986&source=bl&ots=cEQrXYOGkk&sig=aUuMmGJBSrz-P20x0R8u4HFdQy4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjesdbp1ezQAhWHIsAKHdtpASs4ChDoAQgmMAI#v =onepage&q=coach%20gordon%20neely%20leaves%20hibs%20for%20r angers%201986&f=false

[Cosmic Truth]

A copy of a page from The Souness Revolution 1986,



https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uOjuCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT133&lpg=PT133&dq=coach+gordon+neely+leaves+hibs+for+rangers+1986&source=bl&ots=cEQrXYOGkk&sig=aUuMmGJBSrz-P20x0R8u4HFdQy4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjesdbp1ezQAhWHIsAKHdtpASs4ChDoAQgmMAI#v =onepage&q=coach%20gordon%20neely%20leaves%20hibs%20for%20r angers%201986&f=false

What a find! :thumbsup:

So the newspapers are either deliberately lying to cover up for Rangers, or at best too lazy to investigate something a Hibs fan found just by using Google? They would stoop to covering up for club that covered up for an abuser, in articles that they claim to uncover abusers, and people who covered it up. This is a new low, in my opinion.

I knew our media were a disgrace with their pandering to whatever club plays out of Ibrox, but even I didn't think they'd go that low.

[lapsedhibee]

IIRC, the incident was reported in the press (I'm not sure which paper) and the child molester chants sprung from this. Pretty out of order.

The press report of the incident might have been fictional though, mightn't it? We know that the MSM tell lies on behalf of huns. Not saying in any way that would make such chanting acceptable, but need to take care suggesting, as I think you may be, that facts were twisted by fitba fans rather than by 'journalists'.

[Greenwich_Hibby]

I find it very sad that the worst crime in the world is being turned into a petty Hibs v Rangers one-upmanship debate. I want anyone involved in such depravity brought to book if we can, irrespective of which club they were with.

[Betty Boop]

I find it very sad that the worst crime in the world is being turned into a petty Hibs v Rangers one-upmanship debate. I want anyone involved in such depravity brought to book if we can, irrespective of which club they were with.

:agree:

[Caversham Green]

I find it very sad that the worst crime in the world is being turned into a petty Hibs v Rangers one-upmanship debate. I want anyone involved in such depravity brought to book if we can, irrespective of which club they were with.

It's not about oneupmanship though, it's an examination of the way the press is reporting these events and it's clear from Greenginger's link that someone is lying about them.

Yet again the Scottish press is found wanting.

[magpie1892]

Let's not play the blame game here. Two abusers worked at Easter Road looks like that's a fact.

That would be a fair point were it not for the fact that sevco, by proxy, are smearing Hibs through Mangetout feeding stories to the starving, mangy dog that is The Sunday Post while expecting people to overlook the fact that one of their most famous former captains has a criminal record for sex crimes in the 1990s against club apprentices under the age of 16. So that's two abusers at Ibrox - one of whom was captain of the team...

I don't believe in a 'hierarchy of abuse', but the hypocrisy from rangers is staggering. No surprise there.

[Greenwich_Hibby]

It's not about oneupmanship though, it's an examination of the way the press is reporting these events and it's clear from Greenginger's link that someone is lying about them.

Yet again the Scottish press is found wanting.

Ok - tit-for-tat then - my view remains that bringing 'the Rangers are the over-protected establishment' argument into this deplorable series of crimes does not sit well with me - my opinion, you are of course entitled to yours too.

[Smartie]

I don't think now is the time to be "unconditionally defensive" of anything Hibs have done.

If we are found to have acted improperly in any way ONCE A FULL POLICE INVESTIGATION HAS TAKEN PLACE TO UNCOVER THE FACTS OF THE MATTER then we must accept what is found. And everyone who is spoken to by the police must co-operate and be entirely open and frank. And that includes Uncle Walter, Graeme Souness et al.

The current trial by media is disgusting and doesn't do anyone any favours. The only benefit I can see in what is going is that someone hearing a familiar name may jog a memory and encourage them to come forward.

If there has been any sort of cover up at Rangers, if they have behaved in any way improperly in terms of the way they are currently interacting with the media then they should suffer the full force of what is coming their way for that. The main word there though is "if" as we are speculating at the moment.

I do think that we (as with every other club in the UK right now) should brace ourselves for some pretty uncomfortable truths to be revealed.

[Cosmic Truth]

I find it very sad that the worst crime in the world is being turned into a petty Hibs v Rangers one-upmanship debate. I want anyone involved in such depravity brought to book if we can, irrespective of which club they were with.

I don't see it as a Hibs V Rangers one upmanship debate. I believe the done thing back then when something llike this happened was to get the culprit tae fekk, and move on. Using todays standards, that was clearly wrong, but in the past that's the way it was handled.

What we have here, I believe, is our press lying to cover up for the fact Rangers didn't report Neely to the authorities, by blaming Hibs. I think Hibs have every right to defend the club, if lies are being told about it.

I want an independent inquiry, and anyone who carried out any abuse jailed. If people, whether it's at Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, or the SFA etc haven't reported it, it should be uncovered, and lessons learned. This is a transparent Level 5 job, to deflect away from Rangers actions, by blaming Hibs. Hibs, and their fans, have a right to speak up for themselves.

[Cosmic Truth]

I don't think now is the time to be "unconditionally defensive" of anything Hibs have done.

If we are found to have acted improperly in any way ONCE A FULL POLICE INVESTIGATION HAS TAKEN PLACE TO UNCOVER THE FACTS OF THE MATTER then we must accept what is found. And everyone who is spoken to by the police must co-operate and be entirely open and frank. And that includes Uncle Walter, Graeme Souness et al.

The current trial by media is disgusting and doesn't do anyone any favours. The only benefit I can see in what is going is that someone hearing a familiar name may jog a memory and encourage them to come forward.

If there has been any sort of cover up at Rangers, if they have behaved in any way improperly in terms of the way they are currently interacting with the media then they should suffer the full force of what is coming their way for that. The main word there though is "if" as we are speculating at the moment.

I do think that we (as with every other club in the UK right now) should brace ourselves for some pretty uncomfortable truths to be revealed.

Yes, I think fans of a lot of clubs are in for an unpleasant time in the near future. Also, the spotlight here is only on football. There will be loads of sports where youngsters had perverts preying on them. I hope any investigation doesn't end at football.

[blackpoolhibs]

A copy of a page from The Souness Revolution 1986,



https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uOjuCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT133&lpg=PT133&dq=coach+gordon+neely+leaves+hibs+for+rangers+1986&source=bl&ots=cEQrXYOGkk&sig=aUuMmGJBSrz-P20x0R8u4HFdQy4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjesdbp1ezQAhWHIsAKHdtpASs4ChDoAQgmMAI#v =onepage&q=coach%20gordon%20neely%20leaves%20hibs%20for%20r angers%201986&f=false

Well that just about clears it up, this guy Hepburn is making the whole thing up. That is exactly how i remembered the whole thing panning out.

[Pete]

A copy of a page from The Souness Revolution 1986,



https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uOjuCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT133&lpg=PT133&dq=coach+gordon+neely+leaves+hibs+for+rangers+1986&source=bl&ots=cEQrXYOGkk&sig=aUuMmGJBSrz-P20x0R8u4HFdQy4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjesdbp1ezQAhWHIsAKHdtpASs4ChDoAQgmMAI#v =onepage&q=coach%20gordon%20neely%20leaves%20hibs%20for%20r angers%201986&f=false

What does it say? Doesn't seem to work on a phone.

If it's proof that this is a load of nonsense then I'm sure Mr. Waughs family will be making some phone calls tomorrow.

Edit: now working.

[Caversham Green]

Ok - tit-for-tat then - my view remains that bringing 'the Rangers are the over-protected establishment' argument into this deplorable series of crimes does not sit well with me - my opinion, you are of course entitled to yours too.

The Sunday Post appears to be rewriting history in a way that damages the reputation of a respected former chairman of our club (who is no longer able to defend himself) and that of the club itself. That too is deplorable and I think it's a reasonable subject for debate on this forum and elsewhere.

[Cosmic Truth]

Well that just about clears it up, this guy Hepburn is making the whole thing up. That is exactly how i remembered the whole thing panning out.

What an absolute ****bag. Making up lies about a dead man, and throwng him to the wolves, to protect David Murray, Walter Smith, and Graeme Souness.