Hibs face real challenges attracting the cream of the youth

[hibs0666]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.

[StevieCowan]

How do parents from outside the west side of Edinburgh get to the Oriam for 5:45?

Surely takes less time for anyone to drive from the east of Edinburgh to Oriam than it does to get to Tranent?

I do "get" your point but think that it's overplayed.

I assume that Hibs have looked at the development of Meadowbank and made representations to be involved, would be ideal as a satellite facility to East Mains.

Thirdly in regards the facility, should we as supporters, be looking to help build a dome like indoor facility.. look at what World of Soccer are building at Granton to understand what I mean.

However if we move to summer football for pro-initiative then this lessons the impact.

[Sprouleflyer]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.

Remoteness really depends from where you are travelling from. North or West Edinburgh, then HW is ok to get to, although for a 5.45pm start, getting from North Edinburgh across to HW is a nightmare. If you are travelling from East or South East Edinburgh, East Mains is fairly easy to get to.

Shopping, I take it there are no shops in Tranent?

[H18 SFR]

The location of East Mains does have an advantage, for example, I know that the club are currently expanding their capacity in the North East of England which is of course a great development opening up a new potential catchment area. There will be lots of kids that might not make the grade for the North East club's academies or are simply overlooked.

[hibs0666]

Remoteness really depends from where you are travelling from. North or West Edinburgh, then HW is ok to get to, although for a 5.45pm start, getting from North Edinburgh across to HW is a nightmare. If you are travelling from East or South East Edinburgh, East Mains is fairly easy to get to.

Shopping, I take it there are no shops in Tranent?

I hear you. I guess we can challenge the validity of these issues all we want, or we can choose to make it as easy as possible for young players to choose Hibs for their development.

[NAE NOOKIE]

By the sound of it what East Mains really needs is a place where parents etc taking kids to training can chill out for a couple of hours while the youngsters do their stuff. My friends kid was at Hibs over 10 years ago and I was often roped in to take him to training, with the best will in the world I wasn't always up to standing about in the freezing cold watching training drills for 90 minutes and my only option was to either head for a pub or sit in the car with the engine running.
If there's one thing we can learn from the bigger clubs its that its not just how you treat the kids that gets you first option on young talent, its how you treat the parents.

As for competition from Hearts ..... the first thing Hibs should ask any parent is the height of the kids dad, uncles and cousins, if its under six feet we can presume the kid isn't going to be a big lad and tell the parent with a reasonable amount of certainty that he isn't going to make it at Tynecastle :greengrin

This all goes back to what Hibs have been talking about for the last two years, about small things making big differences ..... If you ask me a cafe' style area at East Mains that's warm, has a couple of TVs showing the fitba etc and free tea and coffee for parents taking their kids to training would be a big help ..... I've never been to EM so perhaps it does have something like that, but if it doesn't it should have as a matter of priority.

[hibs0666]

By the sound of it what East Mains really needs is a place where parents etc taking kids to training can chill out for a couple of hours while the youngsters do their stuff. My friends kid was at Hibs over 10 years ago and I was often roped in to take him to training, with the best will in the world I wasn't always up to standing about in the freezing cold watching training drills for 90 minutes and my only option was to either head for a pub or sit in the car with the engine running.
If there's one thing we can learn from the bigger clubs its that its not just how you treat the kids that gets you first option on young talent, its how you treat the parents.

As for competition from Hearts ..... the first thing Hibs should ask any parent is the height of the kids dad, uncles and cousins, if its under six feet we can presume the kid isn't going to be a big lad and tell the parent with a reasonable amount of certainty that he isn't going to make it at Tynecastle :greengrin

This all goes back to what Hibs have been talking about for the last two years, about small things making big differences ..... If you ask me a cafe' style area at East Mains that's warm, has a couple of TVs showing the fitba etc and free tea and coffee for parents taking their kids to training would be a big help ..... I've never been to EM so perhaps it does have something like that, but if it doesn't it should have as a matter of priority.

I think you're right - the answers do not involve spending lots of money, it's much more about putting a wee bit thought and care into what we do.

[Tamhere1875]

For one thing hearts are on a shoogly hook at the Oriam something to do with rent payments. As for the Oriam being the beall and end all try getting a parking place there not the easiest thing to do. Granted the facilities are good but let's get it straight the kids do not get to uses the indoors facilities very often and are mostly coached on the 3G out door pitches. And have you been inside the Oriam indoor pitch area it's not the warmest of places.

[ahibby]

One major decision could be that Hibs own their training facilities and so they are guaranteed. Hearts on the other hand are tenants and might not have those facilities year in year out and where would that leave the kids then. I don't really buy that much in to youth teams to be honest, very few of them make the professional level for our needs anyway. Anyone willing to pull on the Hearts strip because it's convenient deserves to be there. I'm speaking as someone who was offered a trial at Hearts and told them bluntly that I couldn't take it because their strip would burn my back!

[Hero76]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.

Hibs run mini buses from pick up points around Edinburgh.

[ahibby]

Hibs run mini buses from pick up points around Edinburgh.

Go on the Hibees, get in there, what a result. Follow that yambos!

[Brooster]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.

You forgot number 3. Eddie May.

[Beefster]

Some folk seem to think that Tranent is down near Berwick. Even in rush hour, it's a 30-40 minute drive at most from the very centre of town.

I'm not disputing that getting your kid anywhere for 5:45, if you have to work, is a ballache but it's not like getting to Heriot-Watt is significantly better.

[Green-Hibee-7]

Tbh getting anywhere in Edinburgh during rush hour is an utter nightmare. Think people always think Tranent is hours away. The only issue is having training at that time. Granted it was a while ago but I'm sure when I played football training wouldn't be literally 45 mins after most people finish work.

Think the point about having somewhere for parents to sit would be of great benefit. I really dunno how having a training centre in Tranent will benefit our North of England reach than say a training centre in and around the North Edinurgh your talking about an extra 20-25 minutes.

If it is clear evidence that it does impact our ability to have good youths then I wouldn't be against having the academy based elsewhere.

[Andy74]

Do Hearts even use the Oriam? I thought they used the older facilities at Herriot Watt?

[Spike Mandela]

As a parent you somehow manage to get your kids to where they need to be. You just do.

[Turkish Green]

Do Hibs U20s not use HW while the Yams U20s use Ochilview for their games?

I have had 2 sons in pro-youth football, and living west of the city and getting to Ormiston during rush hour on the by-pass is a nightmare from Hermiston to Sheriffhall. In saying that if there was a choice of the yams at HW or Hibs at Ormiston, then I would just make the extra effort to get my lad to the east side of the city.

[s.a.m]

As a parent you somehow manage to get your kids to where they need to be. You just do.

Indeed you do. Takes years off your life though...:greengrin

[ancient hibee]

You forgot number 3. Eddie May.


I was was impressed by Eddie May at the AGM.Spoke a lot of sense.Suspect he upsets parents when he tells them they don't have a Messi or Ronaldo in the family.

[hibbyhabit]

Why is training so early, i'd have thought having it around 7 O'Clock would help everyone out here?

[Stantons Angel]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.


There are a few ways of looking at the points you have raised but i can only give my own interpretation of what I think..
Firstly i think that your confidant should take a good look around the scouting and coaching of kids in the Edinburgh and Lothians area in respect of physical assets and the blooding of young talented players.
Firstly being a parent myself i for one would travel anywhere with my boy to training no matter how remote. if you are going to encourage the talent then you all have to make sacrifices. Once the boy settles in the parent will become accustomed to the travel sharing amongst other parents . If you want your son to succeed you will make sure all aspects are covered.
To say the training area is too far away is why the club set up community football groups around the areas. the best of these lads get picked to play at and train at the centre. The centre is owned by a club who have just won the Scottish Cup and are hopefully on the way to the premier league again. Its a club with almost no debt and bristling in the feel good factor and has a successful reputation of bringing through young talend. Why would young talent not be attracted to a club like that.

To compare us to Hearts bares no comparison as far as i am concerned. Because they are using a new deluxe facility owned by the Scottish Sports Council doesnt give any precedent to them being a better attraction in my mind?

Your argument seems to be based around the parents rather than the boys? I have stood from early morning through to late afternoon watching boys football in all weathers of the different seasons. Yes i would prefer to have been warm and cosy whilst i stood on the touch line, but It was what i chose to do to encourage the boys playing football, something most parents would do at the drop of a hat should their son be talented enough to play the game. It is something that i never saw as a barrier for Hibs to attract top youngsters.

Hopefully we will see the next generation of young players break through in the next couple of seasons and we can welcome their parents to the stands at Easter Road to watch them play the game we love!

[HibbySpurs]

As a parent you somehow manage to get your kids to where they need to be. You just do.

This :top marks

Plain & simple, I really don't buy into what the OP has been told and reeks of yammishness IMO, Ormiston is easily accessible and if a parent can't stand around in a bit of cold weather watching their kids train in exactly the same cold weather where does that leave the kids?

If one of my kids was training with Hibs I'd move heaven & earth to get them there at the allotted time, as Spike says "You just do".

[lucky]

There's dining room at EM, the players use it during the day. I'm sure it won't take much to open it up for parents to sit and have a coffee and a sandwich and watch TV.

[hibs0666]

This :top marks

Plain & simple, I really don't buy into what the OP has been told and reeks of yammishness IMO, Ormiston is easily accessible and if a parent can't stand around in a bit of cold weather watching their kids train in exactly the same cold weather where does that leave the kids?

If one of my kids was training with Hibs I'd move heaven & earth to get them there at the allotted time, as Spike says "You just do".

That's exactly the attitude that will lose us good players. It's happening, trust me. For example, a laddie from up Clermiston way has just decided to train with the gunts, the main reason being is that it is far more convenient for him. He is a Hibby and his old boy is a diehard season ticket holding Hibby.

It won't take much to fix the situation, but let's not kid on that it's the parents fault.

[overdrive]

That's exactly the attitude that will lose us good players. It's happening, trust me. For example, a laddie from up Clermiston way has just decided to train with the gunts, the main reason being is that it is far more convenient for him. He is a Hibby and his old boy is a diehard season ticket holding Hibby.

It won't take much to fix the situation, but let's not kid on that it's the parents fault.

Surely, there will also be somebody who lives in Musselburgh let's say who would choose Hibs over Hearts due to it being more convenient for them.

[Brightside]

Some folk seem to think that Tranent is down near Berwick. Even in rush hour, it's a 30-40 minute drive at most from the very centre of town.

I'm not disputing that getting your kid anywhere for 5:45, if you have to work, is a ballache but it's not like getting to Heriot-Watt is significantly better.

Exactly...unless you life on the west side of edinburgh...picking up a Kid at this side of town and getting to Herriot Watt for 545 is almost impossible.

What we do need at East Mains is more indoor facilities. The barn is awful and we need a couple on indoor training pitches.

There is plenty space in the facility to have a waiting area for parents.

[Brightside]

I was was impressed by Eddie May at the AGM.Spoke a lot of sense.Suspect he upsets parents when he tells them they don't have a Messi or Ronaldo in the family.

Eddie upsets a lot of people. I'm all for him.

[StevieCowan]

Do Hearts even use the Oriam? I thought they used the older facilities at Herriot Watt?



Some, not all, of the youth teams use the new indoor facility each evening.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This :top marks

Plain & simple, I really don't buy into what the OP has been told and reeks of yammishness IMO, Ormiston is easily accessible and if a parent can't stand around in a bit of cold weather watching their kids train in exactly the same cold weather where does that leave the kids?

If one of my kids was training with Hibs I'd move heaven & earth to get them there at the allotted time, as Spike says "You just do".

This is exactly the sort of thinking that will hold Hibs back. I certainly hope the club don't have this attitude to the folk making an effort to get their kids to training.

Not every parent has a car and will sometimes rely on friends to get their kids to training, perhaps that friend isn't even into football do you think they will enjoy freezing their extremities off watching something that will probably bore the tits off them?
As I said, I used to take my friends kid the 30 odd miles to Edinburgh so he could train with Hibs on the nights she couldn't, I'm a bloody Hibs fanatic, but that didn't mean watching him train in the rain or freezing cold was something I was always up for. His mum suffers from Raynauds syndrome and standing around in the freezing cold is the last thing you want to be doing with that condition.

Yes, anybody who is into football, even better if they are a Hibs fan, will move heaven and earth to make sure their kid doesn't miss training and a chance, no matter how remote, to make it as a professional football player .... but to make a presumption that as a result you don't have to cater for the comfort of parents, relatives or friends of the kids concerned because of that is a huge mistake if you ask me.

[StevieCowan]

I was was impressed by Eddie May at the AGM.Spoke a lot of sense.Suspect he upsets parents when he tells them they don't have a Messi or Ronaldo in the family.

Absolutely.

Eddie May's objective is quite simple and that's to get players into the first team and to improve it. For too long kids have been kept on in the false promise that they might make it, at 16 years old Hibs will have an idea if that player will make a first team appearance and all the resource, time and effort should go into these elite players. Eddie is blunt and to the point if he doesn't think that the player will make a career out of the game. For me that's being fair.

[hibs0666]

Surely, there will also be somebody who lives in Musselburgh let's say who would choose Hibs over Hearts due to it being more convenient for them.

I'm sure that you are right, but I want Hibs to be able to attract the best of the best from the region, rather than being winners in a postcode lottery.

[Brightside]

Maybe build a new centre in the Princes St Gardens?:wink:

[H18 SFR]

Maybe build a new centre in the Princes St Gardens?:wink:

Nae parking.

[StevieCowan]

I'm sure that you are right, but I want Hibs to be able to attract the best of the best from the region, rather than being winners in a postcode lottery.


If Hibs trained at Meadowbank's new facility, rather than East Mains, would the Clermiston laddie change his mind or still prefer to go to the Oriam as its closer?


Perhaps one best debated in the Working Together Group, how can the fans make a difference here or do we trust the club to know what they are doing. Which, with respect, I do.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Hibs run mini buses from pick up points around Edinburgh.

Probably even more attractive to parents as they don't always get roped into being a taxi...

[Billy Whizz]

Do Hearts even use the Oriam? I thought they used the older facilities at Herriot Watt?

They've always trained outdoors up to this season at least, however the1st team have indoor facilities in the old indoor hall

[StevieCowan]

Sorry but can I come back to this.

I would go even further and reduce the number of kids in our academy teams to the bare bones, keep the elite players and look after then well.

Ensure that they get the dedicated coaching, the game time each Sunday and do away with the jersey fillers. Let the coaches pick the best players each week and don;t worry about Johny's dad calling the club to complain that he only got 10 mins this week and if it happens again then he'll take him out the club.


This is what happens. If anything Eddie May should be doing more than he does to set expectations with parents.

[Billy Whizz]

Sorry but can I come back to this.

I would go even further and reduce the number of kids in our academy teams to the bare bones, keep the elite players and look after then well.

Ensure that they get the dedicated coaching, the game time each Sunday and do away with the jersey fillers. Let the coaches pick the best players each week and don;t worry about Johny's dad calling the club to complain that he only got 10 mins this week and if it happens again then he'll take him out the club.


This is what happens. If anything Eddie May should be doing more than he does to set expectations with parents.

I'd thought we'd done that anyway

[StevieCowan]

I'd thought we'd done that anyway

.

Perhaps still a work in progress..

To go back to the OP's opening post the way to go, in my humble opinion, is to reduce squads even further. So when parents are approached to join Hibs they know that we'll only go for elite players and they'll get one to one coaching, dedicated sports performance analysis and will not be lost in amongst an over-inflated squad.

If you offered that to a parent that is surely worth the extra 20 mins travelling to training.

Albeit I take on board that we DO need an indoor type facility if we are to continue to train/play over the winter months. If we see the proposed move to summer happen then there is less of a requirement.

[indiejak1413]

My lads played u14 and u15 for Hibs , also my youngest son is still there and most of the time the coaches or Gav would give them a lift in the minibus. Even lads from the west would come through on the minibus. Fair play to Hibs for that.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Kojock]

Remoteness- it's Ormiston we're talking about not Outer Mongolia. What about kids from Musselburgh, Haddington , Dunbar, Eyemouth, Dalkeith, Bonnyrigg Penicuik etc. Not to mention Galashiels, Hawick, Selkirk and the other border towns.

There should be facilities made available for parents to spend a couple of hours in comfortable warm surroundings rather than sitting in a car with the heater on full blast. Shouldn't be too difficult to organise a warm room with some comfy chairs and tea / coffee making facilities.

[Saturday Boy]

If someone is put off traveling from one side of Edinburgh to the other for training, you do wonder whether they have the determination to make it. Kim Little and her parents traveled from Aberdeen to train with Hibs Ladies when she was 16. Didn't do her any harm.

[ancient hibee]

.

Perhaps still a work in progress..

To go back to the OP's opening post the way to go, in my humble opinion, is to reduce squads even further. So when parents are approached to join Hibs they know that we'll only go for elite players and they'll get one to one coaching, dedicated sports performance analysis and will not be lost in amongst an over-inflated squad.

If you offered that to a parent that is surely worth the extra 20 mins travelling to training.

Albeit I take on board that we DO need an indoor type facility if we are to continue to train/play over the winter months. If we see the proposed move to summer happen then there is less of a requirement.

This is right.Brian McClair was pretty clear that the whole system was bloated and should be cut back.Again at the AGM Eddie May said that kids who were never going to make first team players should be identified early to allow them to go and play youth club football and get some enjoyment from it.This is the way to go.At a different level look how the UKs Olympic medals have increased due to the money being spent on the elite level.

[MacGruber]

Bit off on a tangent but do we have much of a scouting presence in Midlothian for boys football. Regularly see Hearts scouts and Celtic scouts but very rarely hibs. Just seen a procession of boys picked up from my area from Hearts especially. Maybe just that we have a bigger interest/resource elsewhere?

[Big_D]

Remoteness- it's Ormiston we're talking about not Outer Mongolia. What about kids from Musselburgh, Haddington , Dunbar, Eyemouth, Dalkeith, Bonnyrigg Penicuik etc. Not to mention Galashiels, Hawick, Selkirk and the other border towns.

There should be facilities made available for parents to spend a couple of hours in comfortable warm surroundings rather than sitting in a car with the heater on full blast. Shouldn't be too difficult to organise a warm room with some comfy chairs and tea / coffee making facilities.

Maybe they're short of mugs .................

[Jones28]

Bit off on a tangent but do we have much of a scouting presence in Midlothian for boys football. Regularly see Hearts scouts and Celtic scouts but very rarely hibs. Just seen a procession of boys picked up from my area from Hearts especially. Maybe just that we have a bigger interest/resource elsewhere?

There was a Man Utd scout at East Mains the other day, while on that subject.

Going back to the OP, "sorry jimmy, ye canny go and play for the Hibs cos yer ma canny get a cup eh tea when yer away trainin'"

Reeks of pish tbh.

[Itsnoteasy]

What happened back in the day with John Collins. He was a Gala lad. His parents must have had the trek weekly to some public park in the capital. I to think someone is slavering p1$h here.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If someone is put off traveling from one side of Edinburgh to the other for training, you do wonder whether they have the determination to make it. Kim Little and her parents traveled from Aberdeen to train with Hibs Ladies when she was 16. Didn't do her any harm.


There was a Man Utd scout at East Mains the other day, while on that subject.

Going back to the OP, "sorry jimmy, ye canny go and play for the Hibs cos yer ma canny get a cup eh tea when yer away trainin'"

Reeks of pish tbh.


What happened back in the day with John Collins. He was a Gala lad. His parents must have had the trek weekly to some public park in the capital. I to think someone is slavering p1$h here.

None of this is the point ...... Its agreed that most parents will go to great lengths to get their kids to training if it means a professional club might sign them, they would be mental not to. The point is that if a kid is being chased by more than one club the parents are more likely to pick the one that treats them and their kid the best .... unlike England or with perhaps Celtic there is highly unlikely to be a financial incentive given to the parents, but if one club at least gives them the option to seek shelter from the elements while the other expects them to either freeze on the touchline twice a week or sit in the car wasting petrol and polluting the environment to boot, which one do you think they are going to pick?

Hibs are a 'professional' football club, a club that has ended up playing 3 seasons in the 2nd tier of Scottish football because we had in many areas failed to act like one ...... Treating the parents of kids the club wants to develop as potential future first team players as valuable commodities is professional. The question shouldn't be 'why should we provide facilities at East Mains for parents' the question should be 'why the hell haven't we done it before now'

Its been over 10 years since this club produced a player through its youth academy with a transfer value of more than 10 bob ..... you cant even include JC because like it or not we cant claim all the credit for making him a player. So aye, treat parents like its still the 1970s if you want and watch clubs with the vision to realise you need to do more than that pass us by.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.

We deal with what we have now but in terms of the remoteness - it was not for lack of trying to work with the council to find a location more closer to home. But Hibs were unable to find a suitable site seems the council were nt that helpful afterall. I believe there were enquireries to acquire the old B&Q on ER however planners Were more keen to turn it to Lidl/Aldi (not sure if that happened/is happening...

[hibs0666]

What happened back in the day with John Collins. He was a Gala lad. His parents must have had the trek weekly to some public park in the capital. I to think someone is slavering p1$h here.

Collins proves the point - he signed for the club that was closest to his home. Think about it before you start typing next time.

[GreenLake]

There's dining room at EM, the players use it during the day. I'm sure it won't take much to open it up for parents to sit and have a coffee and a sandwich and watch TV.

A roaring fire with the Hibs Cup Final DVD on repeat play and a large tray of Krispy Kreme Donuts.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Collins proves the point - he signed for the club that was closest to his home. Think about it before you start typing next time.

No he didn't he was with Celtc boys club initially was he not?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.

Anyone that thinks we can easily attract the cream and that we won't face a challenge is mistaken. And as we've seen it takes time and investment and perhaps a "conveyer-belt" is unrealistic.

No matter what is out in place there are easy ways to disrupt things: pick-off the talented coaches, entice the cream with better financial incentives.

It's amazing what can be swung with public money and favour from councillors or the flip-side which leaves you up against it.

[hibs0666]

No he didn't he was with Celtc boys club initially was he not?

He played for Hutchie Vale. When he was playing there he used to get a lift up with a guy from Clovenfords.

[WhileTheChief..]

So one guy who works with youth football gives his own view and all of a sudden we face a huge challenge??

I doubt we've lost out on any player coming to Hibs cause the parents can't get a cup of tea!

[Jones28]

None of this is the point ...... Its agreed that most parents will go to great lengths to get their kids to training if it means a professional club might sign them, they would be mental not to. The point is that if a kid is being chased by more than one club the parents are more likely to pick the one that treats them and their kid the best .... unlike England or with perhaps Celtic there is highly unlikely to be a financial incentive given to the parents, but if one club at least gives them the option to seek shelter from the elements while the other expects them to either freeze on the touchline twice a week or sit in the car wasting petrol and polluting the environment to boot, which one do you think they are going to pick?

Hibs are a 'professional' football club, a club that has ended up playing 3 seasons in the 2nd tier of Scottish football because we had in many areas failed to act like one ...... Treating the parents of kids the club wants to develop as potential future first team players as valuable commodities is professional. The question shouldn't be 'why should we provide facilities at East Mains for parents' the question should be 'why the hell haven't we done it before now'

Its been over 10 years since this club produced a player through its youth academy with a transfer value of more than 10 bob ..... you cant even include JC because like it or not we cant claim all the credit for making him a player. So aye, treat parents like its still the 1970s if you want and watch clubs with the vision to realise you need to do more than that pass us by.

My post was pretty tongue in cheek and you do have a point.

It wouldn't be difficult to open up the lounge area to hose parents who take their kids to training.

[hibs0666]

So one guy who works with youth football gives his own view and all of a sudden we face a huge challenge??

I doubt we've lost out on any player coming to Hibs cause the parents can't get a cup of tea!

How many youth players have we brought through successfully in the last five-ten years?

[JimBHibees]

No he didn't he was with Celtc boys club initially was he not?

Yes he did his dad was a window cleaner and would run John through the west however he had a fall and injured himself hence the move to Edinburgh and Hibs/Hutchie.

[Winston Ingram]

i'm not buying the remoteness aspect. HW is hardly central. I'm not sure the ability to 'pop to the shops' high on a young footballers list of priorities.

[hibs0666]

i'm not buying the remoteness aspect. HW is hardly central. I'm not sure the ability to 'pop to the shops' high on a young footballers list of priorities.

FFS we're talking about the parents that get them there, not the players themselves.

I guess this is one of those whoosh! moments.

[hibs0666]

Yes he did his dad was a window cleaner and would run John through the west however he had a fall and injured himself hence the move to Edinburgh and Hibs/Hutchie.

Another case in point where players choose their clubs for family rather than football reasons, which is the exact point of this thread.

[Brightside]

FFS we're talking about the parents that get them there, not the players themselves.

I guess this is one of those whoosh! moments.

But HW is in the arse end of nowhere.... its exactly the same as EM. Unless you work/live at the Gyle it is not easier to get to HW. Whats the answer? We will be massively reducing the number of players at the Academy soon anyway, and they are going to move to summer football.

[Ozyhibby]

There are advantages at HW and it pointless ignoring them.
There is a much bigger population to the west of the city than there is to the east. That means HW is easier to get to for a much larger amount of parents.
Also, not having a little cafe area is an issue for parents. Especially if they are discouraged from actually watching the training (most clubs do).
If Spartans can find a cafe then surely Hibs can.
Not every parent are Hibs season ticket holders who spend their spare time on Hibs message boards. Most will pick the option that feels right for them. They won't know who has the best coaches etc so they will make decisions based on other factors.


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[Brightside]

There are advantages at HW and it pointless ignoring them.
There is a much bigger population to the west of the city than there is to the east. That means HW is easier to get to for a much larger amount of parents.
Also, not having a little cafe area is an issue for parents. Especially if they are discouraged from actually watching the training (most clubs do).
If Spartans can find a cafe then surely Hibs can.
Not every parent are Hibs season ticket holders who spend their spare time on Hibs message boards. Most will pick the option that feels right for them. They won't know who has the best coaches etc so they will make decisions based on other factors.


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You know Hearts play a 1-4-1 system at 7s....and individual coaches aren't allowed to change that. I'd be more worried about that if i was a parent than where the training is based.

[JimBHibees]

You know Hearts play a 1-4-1 system at 7s....and individual coaches aren't allowed to change that. I'd be more worried about that if i was a parent than where the training is based.

What would the point of that be at 7s given the dimensions of the pitch? Surely you want to encourage kids to play out from the back, create angles etc would have thought 231 more suitable. Obviously Craig has been along to another coaching seminar from the same guy that did the 460 one. :greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

How many youth players have we brought through successfully in the last five-ten years?

No idea, but let's say none for the sake of argument.

My view is that every penny spent on youth development is a waste. We rarely see the benefits either on the pitch or through transfers.

I wouldn't do anything until players were 15 or 16 at which point we can sign them up if they're any good.

Let other clubs do the development then get in there with cheeky wee bids if necessary. John McGinn being a prime example. These bids would be funded by the money saved from scrapping the youth set up.

It may not be the moral thing to do but hey-ho, this is professional sport and it can be cut throats at times!

East Mains is primarily a place for our squad to train. I'm not too fussed what else it's used for but I don't really want Joe Public wandering around the facilities that our first team use.

[NAE NOOKIE]

My post was pretty tongue in cheek and you do have a point.

It wouldn't be difficult to open up the lounge area to hose parents who take their kids to training.

This is getting ridiculous, are you saying the parents are dirty and need a wash now :greengrin

[JDHibs]

Should also have added that there seems to be a better route to first team football for the yams youngsters. Which for a young lad is very important. We just seem to bring them through the development squad and release them when they get too old. So either we arent picking the right youngsters, training them wrongly which means they arent making it, or not noticing their potential and letting them go.

Hamilton
Smith
Paterson
Nicholson
Walker

Are all regulars this season from their academy. Who do we have thats broken through in recent years getting regular football? None. Stevenson and Hanlon come to mind but both have been in the first team for 5+ years. Scott Martin and Callum Crane are as close as its gets, and thats sporadic appearances on the bench at the moment.

[Brightside]

What would the point of that be at 7s given the dimensions of the pitch? Surely you want to encourage kids to play out from the back, create angles etc would have thought 231 more suitable. Obviously Craig has been along to another coaching seminar from the same guy that did the 460 one. :greengrin

Amazing eh. SO all you do is press the one defender and the goalie ends up kicking it. Guess what - they also play a big strong laddie upfront.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

So we've more or less acknowledged the challenge so are we saying the club are not doing enough?

The academy is being worked - it won't be flipping a switch.

Let's not turn this into "how long is your schlong?" with the yams Oriam is not even theirs. What sold Hibs to parents I'd imagine was the route to the first team for youth. Managers since JC have not invested as much in this Hearts had to out of necessity - but remember they £1553d off a lot of coaches and players in the process when they wielded the axe.

There will be a period of adjustment as we settle in to the way in which the academies should have been run in the first place. We'll nab a few they'll nab a few. And the wheel turns again until the ugly sisters depart.

[Cammy]

You know Hearts play a 1-4-1 system at 7s....and individual coaches aren't allowed to change that. I'd be more worried about that if i was a parent than where the training is based.

That system isn't actually 4 midfielders though, our boys club also play it and it is 1 central defender with 2 wingbacks and 2 centre mids. This helps make it a bit more dynamic and either of the wingbacks can drop in to cover or assist in the attack, depending on the passage of play. If 1 of the wingbacks attacks then the other sits to assist the defender.

[Brightside]

That system isn't actually 4 midfielders though, our boys club also play it and it is 1 central defender with 2 wingbacks and 2 centre mids. This helps make it a bit more dynamic and either of the wingbacks can drop in to cover or assist in the attack, depending on the passage of play. If 1 of the wingbacks attacks then the other sits to assist the defender.

Yeh and we also do it when attacking and pressing up. But when coming from the keeper its really easy to defend against and force the keeper t launch it.

[Cammy]

Yeh and we also do it when attacking and pressing up. But when coming from the keeper its really easy to defend against and force the keeper t launch it.

We have the 2 wingbacks drop to where the full backs would normally be to give the keeper the option either side.

[Marco G]

Should also have added that there seems to be a better route to first team football for the yams youngsters. Which for a young lad is very important. We just seem to bring them through the development squad and release them when they get too old. So either we arent picking the right youngsters, training them wrongly which means they arent making it, or not noticing their potential and letting them go.

Hamilton
Smith
Paterson
Nicholson
Walker

Are all regulars this season from their academy. Who do we have thats broken through in recent years getting regular football? None. Stevenson and Hanlon come to mind but both have been in the first team for 5+ years. Scott Martin and Callum Crane are as close as its gets, and thats sporadic appearances on the bench at the moment.
Think the fact they went bust forced their hand a bit! Our only objective just now is to get promotion which might make it a bit less likely that we try blooding youngsters. Think we have a few that are going to make it though.

[Brightside]

We have the 2 wingbacks drop to where the full backs would normally be to give the keeper the option either side.

I watched three games with Hearts and they weren't doing that...i get the system but they don't play it like that. If the defender is marked the ball goes long. BUT the main point for me was that the coach was not allowed to change that.

[BSEJVT]

I think the OP is making a mountain out of a molehill

I doubt that the location of the facilities or the parents creature comforts are of any consideration at the point their son is approached to sign for a professional football team's youth system.

I can see that these factors might grate on the parents after a while, but at the outset not a chance.

They would at the outset be far more interested in just about every other factor under the sun regarding their sons experience before these factors.

If Hearts and Hibs ask the laddie to sign the exact same day, its a possibility but personally I would still think the parents own allegiances and their knowledge of the respective youth sets ups would weigh far more heavily.

Fwiw the shopping options west of Edinburgh with the continuing demise of the Gyle are probably worse than the Fort which isn't that much further from EM than The Gyle is from Heriot Watt if the talk of 15 minutes from ER to Ormistion is accurate ( I just cant see this personally)

Fwiw I don't disagree that there should be some facility available for the youths parents to have that cup of tea or warmth or whatever but I am not comfortable with the idea of Hibs using their budget on anything other than the team until we are out this ****ty division.

[Cammy]

I watched three games with Hearts and they weren't doing that...i get the system but they don't play it like that. If the defender is marked the ball goes long. BUT the main point for me was that the coach was not allowed to change that.

That makes no sense why they would play it like that and understand where you're coming from.

[HibbySpurs]

This is exactly the sort of thinking that will hold Hibs back. I certainly hope the club don't have this attitude to the folk making an effort to get their kids to training.

Not every parent has a car and will sometimes rely on friends to get their kids to training, perhaps that friend isn't even into football do you think they will enjoy freezing their extremities off watching something that will probably bore the tits off them?
As I said, I used to take my friends kid the 30 odd miles to Edinburgh so he could train with Hibs on the nights she couldn't, I'm a bloody Hibs fanatic, but that didn't mean watching him train in the rain or freezing cold was something I was always up for. His mum suffers from Raynauds syndrome and standing around in the freezing cold is the last thing you want to be doing with that condition.

Yes, anybody who is into football, even better if they are a Hibs fan, will move heaven and earth to make sure their kid doesn't miss training and a chance, no matter how remote, to make it as a professional football player .... but to make a presumption that as a result you don't have to cater for the comfort of parents, relatives or friends of the kids concerned because of that is a huge mistake if you ask me.


Fair enough Nookie, point taken but I think the OP making a general statement that we are going to struggle to get the better kids in over Hearts is just nonsense and somewhat defeatist.... Think someone said the club runs busses up for the kids, so what more can we do than that?

What would we have the club do? Buy over the bottom of the Queens Park so we can build a new training complex there? Hardly economical....

The club has one of the best training complexes in Scotland and we have that partly because of a generous donation of the land and buildings which sat on it, it would have been a major expense to buy land and build one of our own from scratch.... Just look west to see how our friends in Gorgie have to rent from a university and don't even have the run of the place.

I think the statement we'll "struggle" is overblown somewhat and I still believe that if the set up is right, the club is stable, the running of the academy is good the better players will come no matter where the complex is and no matter what football team runs it.

Obviously there will be exceptions to this but I just don't buy into whatthe OP has been told at all.

[Velma Dinkley]

Should also have added that there seems to be a better route to first team football for the yams youngsters. Which for a young lad is very important. We just seem to bring them through the development squad and release them when they get too old. So either we arent picking the right youngsters, training them wrongly which means they arent making it, or not noticing their potential and letting them go.

Hamilton
Smith
Paterson
Nicholson
Walker

Are all regulars this season from their academy. Who do we have thats broken through in recent years getting regular football? None. Stevenson and Hanlon come to mind but both have been in the first team for 5+ years. Scott Martin and Callum Crane are as close as its gets, and thats sporadic appearances on the bench at the moment.

The Hearts youngsters didn't break into the first team. The club went bust, couldn't afford to pay its senior players and were banned from signing new players. The youth players had to be played because there was nobody else.

[JDHibs]

No.

These players broke into the first team before and after admin/signing bans.

Paterson & Walker were regulars in 2012/2013, they went into admin at the end of that season.
Nicholson was a regular 2013/2014 Would have gotten in because of the admin etc, admittedly. But on his day is a good enough player for the SPL.
Hamilton and Smith have only begun playing this season so hardly being made to play since they been out of admin for over 2 seasons now.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Fair enough Nookie, point taken but I think the OP making a general statement that we are going to struggle to get the better kids in over Hearts is just nonsense and somewhat defeatist.... Think someone said the club runs busses up for the kids, so what more can we do than that?

What would we have the club do? Buy over the bottom of the Queens Park so we can build a new training complex there? Hardly economical....

The club has one of the best training complexes in Scotland and we have that partly because of a generous donation of the land and buildings which sat on it, it would have been a major expense to buy land and build one of our own from scratch.... Just look west to see how our friends in Gorgie have to rent from a university and don't even have the run of the place.

I think the statement we'll "struggle" is overblown somewhat and I still believe that if the set up is right, the club is stable, the running of the academy is good the better players will come no matter where the complex is and no matter what football team runs it.

Obviously there will be exceptions to this but I just don't buy into whatthe OP has been told at all.

I wasn't really criticising Hibs for the location of East Mains, I'm well aware of the reason why its located where it is and it seems perfectly reasonable to me .... My only criticism would be of any lack of attention given to folk who are willing to drive kids out there for training, at the risk of repeating myself, not everybody doing that will be willing, or in some cases able, to stand about in bad weather or sit in the car for an hour or two. If providing a refuge for these people on site makes life easier for them I fail to see why we wouldn't want to do it.

[Velma Dinkley]

No.

These players broke into the first team before and after admin/signing bans.

Paterson & Walker were regulars in 2012/2013, they went into admin at the end of that season.
Nicholson was a regular 2013/2014 Would have gotten in because of the admin etc, admittedly. But on his day is a good enough player for the SPL.
Hamilton and Smith have only begun playing this season so hardly being made to play since they been out of admin for over 2 seasons now.

They were all developed by a club spending money it simply didn't have on everything, including youth development, and they've all been fast tracked into the first team because the club was/is skint. It was skint long before it went into admin and as long as plans remain in place to do any kind of stadium development it will continue to be skint for a long time. If Hibs go bust we will also see a lot more of our youth players become first team regulars.

[HibbySpurs]

I wasn't really criticising Hibs for the location of East Mains, I'm well aware of the reason why its located where it is and it seems perfectly reasonable to me .... My only criticism would be of any lack of attention given to folk who are willing to drive kids out there for training, at the risk of repeating myself, not everybody doing that will be willing, or in some cases able, to stand about in bad weather or sit in the car for an hour or two. If providing a refuge for these people on site makes life easier for them I fail to see why we wouldn't want to do it.

Yeah, sorry, should have said I agree with you on that as it happens.... Must be something which can be done to accommodate waiting parents/guardians as driving (or whatever) from Edinburgh let alone further beyond does not lend itself to heading back there during the session as it would almost literally be time to go back again when you got to wherever you were going.

A facility with a coffee machine/vending machines at least wouldn't be that hard to establish you'd think.

[ronaldo7]

I think the OP is making a mountain out of a molehill

I doubt that the location of the facilities or the parents creature comforts are of any consideration at the point their son is approached to sign for a professional football team's youth system.

I can see that these factors might grate on the parents after a while, but at the outset not a chance.

They would at the outset be far more interested in just about every other factor under the sun regarding their sons experience before these factors.

If Hearts and Hibs ask the laddie to sign the exact same day, its a possibility but personally I would still think the parents own allegiances and their knowledge of the respective youth sets ups would weigh far more heavily.

Fwiw the shopping options west of Edinburgh with the continuing demise of the Gyle are probably worse than the Fort which isn't that much further from EM than The Gyle is from Heriot Watt if the talk of 15 minutes from ER to Ormistion is accurate ( I just cant see this personally)

Fwiw I don't disagree that there should be some facility available for the youths parents to have that cup of tea or warmth or whatever but I am not comfortable with the idea of Hibs using their budget on anything other than the team until we are out this ****ty division.

This.

Parents will take their bairns anywhere to enable them to fulfil their dreams.

But don't forget the shopping:faf:

[ancient hibee]

I read the posts about youth club playing systems with wing backs and central mids and the rest and had a good laugh.Then realised it wasn't 1st April.If ever you need to know what's wrong with Scottish football it's there.It's not systems kids need to learn it's skills.When you have international players who cannot kick the ball with either foot or run with the ball unde control it's obvious why.

[Ozyhibby]

I read the posts about youth club playing systems with wing backs and central mids and the rest and had a good laugh.Then realised it wasn't 1st April.If ever you need to know what's wrong with Scottish football it's there.It's not systems kids need to learn it's skills.When you have international players who cannot kick the ball with either foot or run with the ball unde control it's obvious why.

It's both. They need to be able to control a ball while also visualising the game around them while perceiving both danger and opportunity.
Football happens in their brain and it's the speed of their decision making that will determine success.
Plenty of football freestylers have amazing skills but would not last two minutes in a game.


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[Ozyhibby]

I read the posts about youth club playing systems with wing backs and central mids and the rest and had a good laugh.Then realised it wasn't 1st April.If ever you need to know what's wrong with Scottish football it's there.It's not systems kids need to learn it's skills.When you have international players who cannot kick the ball with either foot or run with the ball unde control it's obvious why.

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[Billy Whizz]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161122/1e33cd5bb57aefd08511e64c10c03003.jpg



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My hero growing up

[ancient hibee]

It's both. They need to be able to control a ball while also visualising the game around them while perceiving both danger and opportunity.
Football happens in their brain and it's the speed of their decision making that will determine success.
Plenty of football freestylers have amazing skills but would not last two minutes in a game.


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Quite true.But you have to have total belief in your technical ability so that you can do it without thinking.As you say the thinking is needed in a game context.The place that real speed is needed is between the ears.However there's no point in knowing what you want to do if you can't actually do it and I think that's where the emphasis should be in the early years.

[heidtheba]

By the sound of it what East Mains really needs is a place where parents etc taking kids to training can chill out for a couple of hours while the youngsters do their stuff. My friends kid was at Hibs over 10 years ago and I was often roped in to take him to training, with the best will in the world I wasn't always up to standing about in the freezing cold watching training drills for 90 minutes and my only option was to either head for a pub or sit in the car with the engine running.
If there's one thing we can learn from the bigger clubs its that its not just how you treat the kids that gets you first option on young talent, its how you treat the parents.

As for competition from Hearts ..... the first thing Hibs should ask any parent is the height of the kids dad, uncles and cousins, if its under six feet we can presume the kid isn't going to be a big lad and tell the parent with a reasonable amount of certainty that he isn't going to make it at Tynecastle :greengrin

This all goes back to what Hibs have been talking about for the last two years, about small things making big differences ..... If you ask me a cafe' style area at East Mains that's warm, has a couple of TVs showing the fitba etc and free tea and coffee for parents taking their kids to training would be a big help ..... I've never been to EM so perhaps it does have something like that, but if it doesn't it should have as a matter of priority.

Great idea. Throw in lots of plug points and decent wifi and it will let some people get some work done. Nice wee seats for little people and a quiet area and younger brothers n sisters could get homework done/parents hear reading.

[Andy74]

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Once players can do the basics they can be taught those other aspects of the game. Most youth coaches don't really have the understanding of the game that Cryuff had. Thinking they do is half the problem.

[Ozyhibby]

Once players can do the basics they can be taught those other aspects of the game. Most youth coaches don't really have the understanding of the game that Cryuff had. Thinking they do is half the problem.

It's not really about formations as such, it's just teaching game understanding.
They have to be taught in tandem which allows the boys to find solutions to problems themselves quickly. The speed of the game now is frightening and having great technique and fast decision making skills are crucial. You can't just teach skills first and leave everything else till later. Has to be done together.


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[silverhibee]

How many youth players have we brought through successfully in the last five-ten years?

And yet the last batch of young talent we brought through would sometimes have to travel to North Queensferry or half way along the M8 and other places to train, mums and dads would either just watch training or sit in the car and we produced some great players, sorry but not buying that parents are choosing the closer training facilities because of travel time or where they can get a cuppa tea.

I'm not a fan of bringing in kids for training to Hibs at a very young age, I would want my son playing for a hutchie vale salvesson boys club or any other local youth club.

[Borderhibbie76]

Some folk seem to think that Tranent is down near Berwick. Even in rush hour, it's a 30-40 minute drive at most from the very centre of town.

I'm not disputing that getting your kid anywhere for 5:45, if you have to work, is a ballache but it's not like getting to Heriot-Watt is significantly better.
Exactly mate...I live in Tranent and at most it's 30 mins from city centre in rush hour

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[Brightside]

I read the posts about youth club playing systems with wing backs and central mids and the rest and had a good laugh.Then realised it wasn't 1st April.If ever you need to know what's wrong with Scottish football it's there.It's not systems kids need to learn it's skills.When you have international players who cannot kick the ball with either foot or run with the ball unde control it's obvious why.

Its both. Systems, roles and responsibilities are a huge part of developing any player. Skills are obvious but all coaching should involve elements of phases of play etc otherwise you just have kids running about daft trying to beat 10 men!

[Tinribs]

I agree that creature comforts would be the last thing on a parents mind when getting the chance for their boy to be involved at Hibs. My brother would stand up to his neck in ice if it meant my nephew could play and train at Hibs.

That being said, I would never dream of having someone round to my house and not offering them at least a cup of tea and somewhere to sit, it's just nice to be nice really.

[superfurryhibby]

It's not really about formations as such, it's just teaching game understanding.
They have to be taught in tandem which allows the boys to find solutions to problems themselves quickly. The speed of the game now is frightening and having great technique and fast decision making skills are crucial. You can't just teach skills first and leave everything else till later. Has to be done together.


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Speed of the game? Assuming that you refer to boys and youth football, I find that a bit hard to accept. Are they training more, doing weights etc? As a boy in the early- mid 70's and playing school and boys club, I lived and breathed football. Fitness wasn't an issue it was a given. Not sure todays kids would be able to say the same

Nobody taught me anything particularly technical in terms of game understanding or any other such daft phrase when I was a laddie. . My own coach was the late Dougie Dalglish, a man steeped in youth football , who coached well enough to bring through a lot of boys who played the game at pro level during the 70's . Cannae say I remember much emphasis on tactics. We were however a very good team

[Brooster]

How many youths have came through the Eddie May era to play in 12 or more competative 1st team games?

[hibs0666]

Speed of the game? Assuming that you refer to boys and youth football, I find that a bit hard to accept. Are they training more, doing weights etc? As a boy in the early- mid 70's and playing school and boys club, I lived and breathed football. Fitness wasn't an issue it was a given. Not sure todays kids would be able to say the same

Nobody taught me anything particularly technical in terms of game understanding or any other such daft phrase when I was a laddie. . My own coach was the late Dougie Dalglish, a man steeped in youth football , who coached well enough to bring through a lot of boys who played the game at pro level during the 70's . Cannae say I remember much emphasis on tactics. We were however a very good team

He ran a good club did Dougie. Didn't realise that he had passed away.

[Ozyhibby]

Speed of the game? Assuming that you refer to boys and youth football, I find that a bit hard to accept. Are they training more, doing weights etc? As a boy in the early- mid 70's and playing school and boys club, I lived and breathed football. Fitness wasn't an issue it was a given. Not sure todays kids would be able to say the same

Nobody taught me anything particularly technical in terms of game understanding or any other such daft phrase when I was a laddie. . My own coach was the late Dougie Dalglish, a man steeped in youth football , who coached well enough to bring through a lot of boys who played the game at pro level during the 70's . Cannae say I remember much emphasis on tactics. We were however a very good team

And if the rest of the world hadn't gone out and changed the way they coach kids we could have just carried on the way we were doing it in the 70's instead of trying our best to catch up and copy what they are doing.


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[ancient hibee]

How many youths have came through the Eddie May era to play in 12 or more competative 1st team games?

How long has Eddie May been in charge?

[Brightside]

How many youths have came through the Eddie May era to play in 12 or more competative 1st team games?

Did Eddie May ask you to take your kid elsewhere? You have a constant dig at him. He didn't hire Joe McBride you know...

[Smartie]

How many youths have came through the Eddie May era to play in 12 or more competative 1st team games?

I'd say it's a bit early in his time at Hibs to judge fully.

Falkirk have done quite well in recent years with their youth system though have they not?

[superfurryhibby]

And if the rest of the world hadn't gone out and changed the way they coach kids we could have just carried on the way we were doing it in the 70's instead of trying our best to catch up and copy what they are doing.


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Maybe not. The coaching of the 1970's was good enough to produce Scottish players who competed at the highest level for club and country during the 80's and into the 90's. The rest of the world were still playing football then and of the top my head there are no major football powers now that weren't as prominent in the 1970's?

Accept there has been a levelling up at minnow level and that football is much less naive, but aside from the odd once in a generation minnow effort, nowt much has changed. We have however, stopped punching above our weight and that is due to other factors beyond the improvements in teams from uzbekistan or where ever.

Still not getting pace of the game thing though. Obviously at pro level, but boys clubs?

[Brightside]

Maybe not. The coaching of the 1970's was good enough to produce Scottish players who competed at the highest level for club and country during the 80's and into the 90's. The rest of the world were still playing football then and of the top my head there are no major football powers now that weren't as prominent in the 1970's?

Accept there has been a levelling up at minnow level and that football is much less naive, but aside from the odd once in a generation minnow effort, nowt much has changed. We have however, stopped punching above our weight and that is due to other factors beyond the improvements in teams from uzbekistan or where ever.

Still not getting pace of the game thing though. Obviously at pro level, but boys clubs?

You see a massive difference in pace of the game just between different divisions/levels at boys clubs.

[StevieCowan]

How many youths have came through the Eddie May era to play in 12 or more competative 1st team games?

His era started just over 2 years ago. Not sure that's fair to judge him now.

Would you expect in this most crucial of seasons to play youngsters ?

[Andy74]

How many youths have came through the Eddie May era to play in 12 or more competative 1st team games?

It'll take a few years yet for that. At Falkirk at least they went from zero to over 20 players who then played at some sort of international level.

[superfurryhibby]

You see a massive difference in pace of the game just between different divisions/levels at boys clubs.

Aye, wasn't it always thus? Seem to remember the biggest tankings I've taken part in in football were in boys club cup competitions, usually against teams from the sticks (seem to remember a 21-0 against a team from Penicuik)

Do you think under 12's are fitter now? Can't see why, especially when kids these days are more sedentary in lifestyle.

[Brooster]

Did Eddie May ask you to take your kid elsewhere? You have a constant dig at him. He didn't hire Joe McBride you know...

That doesnt answer my question.

[ancient hibee]

That doesnt answer my question.

I'll ask you my question again.How long has Eddie May been in charge?

[Brooster]

I'll ask you my question again.How long has Eddie May been in charge?

Eddie May has been in post for well over 2 years.

[ancient hibee]

And how many players meet your criteria for the two years before that? And the two years before that?

[Brooster]

And how many players meet your criteria for the two years before that? And the two years before that?

Not sure of exact numbers but sure to include Development Squad players such as Cummings and Forster. How many Development Squad players have stepped up to play 12 or more games in the last 2 years?

[StevieCowan]

Not sure of exact numbers but sure to include Development Squad players such as Cummings and Forster. How many Development Squad players have stepped up to play 12 or more games in the last 2 years?

None, and to be honest the club has not been able to blood anyone in this period as it's absolutely vital to get promoted.

I'm also willing to bet that Shaw, Porteous and Martin will get a chance this season should (hopefully) we win the league with some to spare.

If they do will you consider Eddie May a success or still a failure, not baiting you here but genuine question.

[Brooster]

None, and to be honest the club has not been able to blood anyone in this period as it's absolutely vital to get promoted.

I'm also willing to bet that Shaw, Porteous and Martin will get a chance this season should (hopefully) we win the league with some to spare.

If they do will you consider Eddie May a success or still a failure, not baiting you here but genuine question.

I would love to see that, it could be argued that its easier to blood them in the Championship where the standard is lower but I understand the pressures which may prevent us in doing so. Yes....my opinion of the Academy and talent coaches would go up if I could see youngsters breaking through.

[JimBHibees]

How many youths have came through the Eddie May era to play in 12 or more competative 1st team games?

Bit early I would suggest to determine whether successful or unsuccessful. Very much a long term role IMO across many age groups.

[Mikey]

Eddie May has been in post for well over 2 years.

So the 12 year olds are now 14, the 13 year olds are now 15, etc, etc.

The guys who were 16 or 17 when he came in will have been through a system that doesn't appear to have been successful and that would perhaps explain why we're not seeing them anywhere the first team now.

2 years isn't long enough to judge him.

[Brooster]

So the 12 year olds are now 14, the 13 year olds are now 15, etc, etc.

The guys who were 16 or 17 when he came in will have been through a system that doesn't appear to have been successful and that would perhaps explain why we're not seeing them anywhere the first team now.

2 years isn't long enough to judge him.

Fair comment, I'll reserve judgement but I do have concerns that we are not attracting the best youngsters but not for the reasons given in the OP.

[HTD1875]

Seems that someone at hibs has been peaking on the forum. Tea Coffee and the sofas set up for parents last night. All the New lads had a tour of East Mains. Much more impressive once you get out of the cold and into the actual facility itself.

[hibs0666]

Seems that someone at hibs has been peaking on the forum. Tea Coffee and the sofas set up for parents last night. All the New lads had a tour of East Mains. Much more impressive once you get out of the cold and into the actual facility itself.

Glad to hear it :thumbsup:

[BSEJVT]

Seems that someone at hibs has been peaking on the forum. Tea Coffee and the sofas set up for parents last night. All the New lads had a tour of East Mains. Much more impressive once you get out of the cold and into the actual facility itself.

Excellent, a quick and easy win for the club at little cost

[Not In The Know]

Eddie upsets a lot of people. I'm all for him.

Eddie was so useless at Falkirk they offered him the first team managers job.
Granted that never turned out that great for him. But that was because he was more suited to what he was doing previously, and exactly what he is doing now.

[G B Young]

East Mains is almost always cited by new signings as one of the main reasons they joined Hibs. I've never been, but I assume that overall it's a pretty impressive facility. For anyone on here who's familiar with it, what would you say needs done to ensure it's more family/kid friendly?

[Canon Hannan]

Nearly 10 years old and No players produced.
It's far easier for everyone in Scotland to travel to HW at rush hour.
East Mains is really a first team facility. I would use HW for the kids as it's a better facility all round.

[Cropley10]

Absolutely.

Eddie May's objective is quite simple and that's to get players into the first team and to improve it. For too long kids have been kept on in the false promise that they might make it, at 16 years old Hibs will have an idea if that player will make a first team appearance and all the resource, time and effort should go into these elite players. Eddie is blunt and to the point if he doesn't think that the player will make a career out of the game. For me that's being fair.

Pro youth is pretty much a waste of time and money. Looking at the volume of kids who go in to the system and the number of professional footballers coming out the other end, Im glad that serious questions are now being asked.

[speedy_gonzales]

A friend of mines laddie played with Hibs youth a couple of years back. Although he lived to the South of Edinburgh he did mention that East Mains was an issue for some other parents to get to, inevitably there was car sharing arrangements made.
Regrettably, the laddie has since signed for Hearts. He had a trial at Celtic & Hearts, Craig Levein personally phoned him up before anything was signed and he's now banging the goals in for the under 15's. Whilst the facilities at the Oriam may not be 'theirs' it was certainly an attraction to my mate and his son.

[superfurryhibby]

Nearly 10 years old and No players produced.
It's far easier for everyone in Scotland to travel to HW at rush hour.
East Mains is really a first team facility. I would use HW for the kids as it's a better facility all round.

Not really CH, the west of Edinburgh is hell on earth at rush hour. What if you were travelling from central Edinburgh or anywhere east of it, including the borders and the many peripheral towns around the city?

Agreeing with the sentiment that pro youth football is not doing the job. It would seem to me that money would be better invested in coaching and boys club football. Is there any evidence to show that standards have raised or that we have more home grown talent breaking through into pro football since the rise of pro youth?

[Brightside]

Nearly 10 years old and No players produced.
It's far easier for everyone in Scotland to travel to HW at rush hour.
East Mains is really a first team facility. I would use HW for the kids as it's a better facility all round.

This is just wrong. If you are East of Princes St it is 100 x easier to get to EM. Since when did the cream of youth football all move to the Gyle shopping centre.

[Golden Bear]

We've had this discussion before but it can't all be down to the geographic location of East Mains. The scouting and coaching structures should have a big role to play and I've still to be convinced that these areas are functioning effectively.

The proof is in the pudding and as someone else has pointed out, we've had very little success in producing a steady supply of quality youngsters for a number of years now.

[Brightside]

We've had this discussion before but it can't all be down to the geographic location of East Mains. The scouting and coaching structures should have a big role to play and I've still to be convinced that these areas are functioning effectively.

The proof is in the pudding and as someone else has pointed out, we've had very little success in producing a steady supply of quality youngsters for a number of years now.

Things are changing. Fully expect Hibs to drastically reduce the number of Youth teams they run in the future. This will enable them to retain decent coaches for the elite players. The coaches we currently have at youth level are nowhere near good enough to produce talent.

[Canon Hannan]

This is just wrong. If you are East of Princes St it is 100 x easier to get to EM. Since when did the cream of youth football all move to the Gyle shopping centre.

From personal experience the vast majority of Hibs youth travel from Glasgow, West Lothian and the rest of Scotland. EM suits East Lothian and East Central Edinburgh which restricts the whole of Scotland.

[coldingham hibs]

Things are changing. Fully expect Hibs to drastically reduce the number of Youth teams they run in the future. This will enable them to retain decent coaches for the elite players. The coaches we currently have at youth level are nowhere near good enough to produce talent.

That's a bit of an extreme view, I am sure the coaches at Hibs are just as qualified as the coaches at other clubs. The Hibs youth teams cope very well against their opposition at all levels.

[Hibbyradge]

I had a good chat over the weekend with a guy who is heavily involved in youth coaching in Edinburgh, and he reckons that Hibs face pretty big challenges in attracting the cream of the local youth crop to the club and away from the yams. And it's got nothing to do with the coaching itself.

There is no doubt that the quality of the facilities at Ormiston is excellent. However, he thinks that there are a couple of big issues that Hibs really need to overcome:


remoteness is a big issue - parents need to get their kids down to Ormiston for a 5:45pm start at least twice a week. You can imagine how painful that is if, for example, both parents are working. Even if a family member is available, you are asking parents to get down there in the middle of the rush hour which is a total and utter pain. From his perspective the Oriam is much easier to get to both by road and public transport.
the facilities for parents at the Oriam are on a different level in that you can stay warm in the cafe with a cuppa, watch a different sport or even nip out to the shops if you need to get your messages. Ormiston does not compare.

Of course, there are umpteen ways (e.g. organising lift shares, setting up a family room, using the Oriam etc.) in which Hibs can address these challenges. We cannot afford to ignore any barriers that might prevent Hibs from being the go-to club for the cream of the crop.

Interesting points.

Regardless of how much this affects our ability to recruit youngsters, if there's anything we can do to imcrease our attractiveness, we should do it.

Marginal gains and all that, at least.

Have you raised your concerns with the club?