PDA

View Full Version : Top 5 refs in Scotland?



GreenCastle
13-11-2016, 10:26 PM
Lots of chat about refs and John Beaton again.

I just did a quick search of the forums and numerous threads on Beaton previously making errors and having a shocking performance.

So do we have a top 5 in Scotland?

matty_f
13-11-2016, 10:28 PM
Boy that refereed the final - McLean? Had a great game. :agree:

CallumLaidlaw
13-11-2016, 10:31 PM
Boy that refereed the final - McLean? Had a great game. :agree:

To be honest he's the only one I can think of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Twiglet
13-11-2016, 10:31 PM
Only ones I rate are MacLean and Madden (who can have a total 'mare of a game, but when he's at his best I think he's up there).

Danderhall Hibs
13-11-2016, 10:39 PM
Is Cammy Murray still a ref? He was decent wasn't he?

Sir David Gray
13-11-2016, 10:53 PM
Is Cammy Murray still a ref? He was decent wasn't he?

Calum Murray?

No he retired two seasons ago.

Danderhall Hibs
13-11-2016, 10:56 PM
Calum Murray?

No he retired two seasons ago.

That's him. Pity - he was one of the better ones.

BurstBaw
13-11-2016, 11:13 PM
Is Cammy Murray still a ref? He was decent wasn't he?

No retired & now a ref observer who marks the ref's from the stand........


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BurstBaw
13-11-2016, 11:15 PM
Lots of chat about refs and John Beaton again.

I just did a quick search of the forums and numerous threads on Beaton previously making errors and having a shocking performance.

So do we have a top 5 in Scotland?

?????? In your opinion??????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

northstandhibby
13-11-2016, 11:24 PM
?????? In your opinion??????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry to pull you up on this bud but everything someone says without pointing to an authoritative source is already understood to be merely communicating their opinion.

Not having a go at you but that is the way it is.

:aok:

beensaidbefore
13-11-2016, 11:35 PM
Surprised to see there are no hibs.net guys on the list. Early doors mind!😁

The Harp
14-11-2016, 12:35 AM
Can only think of 2, and not sure if they would merit the term 'top refs.'
I'd say Bobby Madden and Steven McLean could be considered as 'least bad.'

HoboHarry
14-11-2016, 01:08 AM
I've said it a number of times on this forum but there isn't a country in the world where the fans think that their referees are the best. The vast majority think that their referees are crap - and anyone who comes on here spouting about referees cheating etc should take the exam and try it for themselves. That will open up a whole new perspective........

matty_f
14-11-2016, 01:13 AM
Surprised to see there are no hibs.net guys on the list. Early doors mind!😁

Lucky you popped up though.

leither17
14-11-2016, 01:21 AM
Scott Brown he is also the Scotland manager

where'stheslope
14-11-2016, 08:02 AM
Top Referees?
The only way you become a top referee is by giving 1 team more decisions than the other?
If your team gets the more decisions then he is a top referee?
If you don't get the decisions then he is the worst referee on the planet?
Simplesssss!!!

guidref
14-11-2016, 08:07 AM
pick me! pick me!

O'Rourke3
14-11-2016, 09:20 AM
There haven't been that many for ages. Miller, Aitken and Malpas all retired around the same time.

vuefrom1875
14-11-2016, 09:33 AM
Lots of chat about refs and John Beaton again.

I just did a quick search of the forums and numerous threads on Beaton previously making errors and having a shocking performance.

So do we have a top 5 in Scotland?
Couldn't knit one out of the lot of them, absolute sh##e!

brog
14-11-2016, 09:52 AM
I've said it a number of times on this forum but there isn't a country in the world where the fans think that their referees are the best. The vast majority think that their referees are crap - and anyone who comes on here spouting about referees cheating etc should take the exam and try it for themselves. That will open up a whole new perspective........

I think our refs are crap & I'm a qualified ref! I did take my badge in Engerlund though!

brog
14-11-2016, 10:03 AM
I think our refs are crap & I'm a qualified ref! I did take my badge in Engerlund though!

I should qualify that by saying it's the attitude of our refs that causes the most problems. Stevie McLean & Bobby Madden are approachable guys so when they make a mistake, as every ref does, its easier to have some sympathy for them. Clancy, young Dallas, Collum & of course CT are arrogant twats who deserve little sympathy, though I see some signs of improvement in Clancy. Alan Muir is just an incompetent idiot!

Dr What If?
14-11-2016, 10:03 AM
I think our refs are crap & I'm a qualified ref! I did take my badge in Engerlund though!

Quick question, never understood why refereeing in football has never been a viable option for ex-players. Seems obvious, they've been playing the game for years, should know the rules (official and, ahem, other) and should still be fit enough to follow a game. Works in a host of other sports...or have I got it wrong and there are a lot of ex's with whistles?

Just Jimmy
14-11-2016, 10:09 AM
Quick question, never understood why refereeing in football has never been a viable option for ex-players. Seems obvious, they've been playing the game for years, should know the rules (official and, ahem, other) and should still be fit enough to follow a game. Works in a host of other sports...or have I got it wrong and there are a lot of ex's with whistles?
Probably because they'll have or be seen to have an affinity to clubs they played for.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

GreenCastle
14-11-2016, 10:24 AM
Boy that refereed the final - McLean? Had a great game. :agree:

He actually did ref that game really well.

You hardly noticed him.

Regarding ex players being refs - most ex players have money and don't need the hassle or go to coaching / management.

There is an issue with the lack of good refs coming through - interesting point about talking about decisions - at least if s ref tried to do that then it helps but shame people from the stands can't hear it.

I've always thought football should be like rugby with the refs and a microphone to hear decisions explained.

humptiedumptie
14-11-2016, 10:40 AM
Witnessed Steve Archibald at City Park for East Fife against Spartans. He managed to play,captain, manage, referee and financially invest in his team all at the one time. A very talented individual or/ as well as a massive ego, take your pick.

emerald green
14-11-2016, 11:40 AM
Depends what is meant by a "Top ref" I suppose. I honestly can't think of five currently refereeing. Steven McLean would be one. Seems to be a good referee from what I've seen of him.

How about these guys though? Craig Thomson, Willie Collum, Alan Muir, John Beaton. Just kidding. :wink:

But, off the top of my head, who could ever forget these former "Top refs". Hugh Dallas, Mike McCurry, Steve Conroy. :no way: There's more no doubt.

Dr What If?
14-11-2016, 11:41 AM
Regarding ex players belts refs - most ex players have money and don't need the hassle or go to coaching / management.

There is an issue with the lack of good refs coming through

I believe the majority of ex players go out and find a day job, money only comes to a select minority - read an interesting article about Tam McManus struggling to pay the bills at the end of his career. Perhaps if refereeing was a full-time occupation we would see a better standard - can't be too hard on our current crop when they are PT and rewarded as such.
It might be fair to have a go at a player on £k+ a week who can't find a 5 yard pass after a full weeks training - but a ref who misses a handball who needs another job to put food on the table?

Danderhall Hibs
14-11-2016, 11:44 AM
Refereeing must be an option for the current batch of SPFL players given that it pays more per match than the majority get as a player.

Geo_1875
14-11-2016, 11:46 AM
He actually did ref that game really well.

You hardly noticed him.

Regarding ex players belts refs - most ex players have money and don't need the hassle or go to coaching / management.

There is an issue with the lack of good refs coming through - interesting point about talking about decisions - at least if s ref tried to do that then it helps but shame people from the stands can't hear it.

I've always thought football should be like rugby with the refs and a microphone to hear decisions explained.

It's a pity that younger players who don't make the grade can't be persuaded to make the move to refereeing. It's difficult to give up playing but refereeing is a decent paying gig nowadays.

GreenCastle
14-11-2016, 12:45 PM
Does anyone know if any refs in Scotland are full time?

England seems to have a few.

What is the amount refs get paid for being in charge of a Hibs game ? Assistants also.

I can't believe some of the fees paid to refs at lower level - not cheap.

Dr What If?
14-11-2016, 12:58 PM
Does anyone know if any refs in Scotland are full time?

England seems to have a few.

What is the amount refs get paid for being in charge of a Hibs game ? Assistants also.

I can't believe some of the fees paid to refs at lower level - not cheap.

It is better than I thought but still a long way off a full time wage (for championship) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30754145

Slim Shady
14-11-2016, 01:22 PM
It is better than I thought but still a long way off a full time wage (for championship) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30754145

Refereeing at senior level is a full time job for less than part time wages, unless you are a FIFA referee or Premiership regular.

Geo_1875
14-11-2016, 01:25 PM
It is better than I thought but still a long way off a full time wage (for championship) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30754145

The photo accompanying that story shows one of the biggest problems with Scottish referees.

Craig_HFC
14-11-2016, 01:28 PM
Not sure about top 5 but the worst one by an absolute mile is that useless streak of pish with a face too big for his heid: Kevin Clancy.

matty_f
14-11-2016, 01:36 PM
The photo accompanying that story shows one of the biggest problems with Scottish referees.

There's a real irony, given the current discussions on this forum about referees, that the picture is of a Hibs player being sent off.

Even more ironic, is that IIRC, that one was probably correct.

hibbysam
14-11-2016, 01:58 PM
Refereeing at senior level is a full time job for less than part time wages, unless you are a FIFA referee or Premiership regular.

In Scotland, Referees are Part Time, even at the top. In England, Top level referees are Full Time.

Smartie
14-11-2016, 02:01 PM
I honestly don't think giving them more money and asking them to give up their day jobs would improve anything.

brog
14-11-2016, 04:49 PM
In Scotland, Referees are Part Time, even at the top. In England, Top level referees are Full Time.

Not true, most :top refs " in Scotland are full time. Have been for years.

beensaidbefore
14-11-2016, 04:55 PM
Lucky you popped up though.

Not for me thanks. No desire to be branded a cheat on a weekly basis.

snooky
14-11-2016, 05:01 PM
He actually did ref that game really well.

You hardly noticed him.

Regarding ex players being refs - most ex players have money and don't need the hassle or go to coaching / management.

There is an issue with the lack of good refs coming through - interesting point about talking about decisions - at least if s ref tried to do that then it helps but shame people from the stands can't hear it.

I've always thought football should be like rugby with the refs and a microphone to hear decisions explained.

Personally, I'd give the microphones to the crowd so the ref would hear loud and clear what we think of his decisions.

StevieCowan
14-11-2016, 05:10 PM
Not true, most :top refs " in Scotland are full time. Have been for years.

Interesting to read that Brog. Which ones have been FT for years?

BoomtownHibees
14-11-2016, 05:16 PM
Not true, most :top refs " in Scotland are full time. Have been for years.

I didn't know that. When did that happen?

In fact I just found this from a Herald article written this year:

"My view is that individuals in refereeing would benefit if they were full time," said Fleming. "If there was a situation where you can devote the full amount of your time to refereeing then it can only enhance you as an individual and also your performance on the park.

"Referees are currently not employed by the SFA, so it is just a hobby to them," he added. "The case in point would be a midweek game for example, where the referee would be at his place of work, then have to leave there to get to a game. If he was full time he would be there early, resting and getting good preparation. It would help the referee and allow them to get more coaching, not to mention educating in schools, academies, and informing the rest of the game.

hibbysam
14-11-2016, 05:40 PM
Not true, most :top refs " in Scotland are full time. Have been for years.

No they haven't. You might want to tell the head of refereeing that though if they are.

brog
14-11-2016, 05:55 PM
[QUOTE=hibbysam;4859078]No they haven't. You might want to tell the head of refereeing that though if they are.[/QUOT

Beaton became a full time ref earlier this year. The others on the FIFA list eg Collum & CT have been mainly full time for
years. If they do other work its secondary to their refereeing responsibilities.

StevieCowan
14-11-2016, 06:00 PM
[QUOTE=hibbysam;4859078]No they haven't. You might want to tell the head of refereeing that though if they are.[/QUOT

Beaton became a full time ref earlier this year. The others on the FIFA list eg Collum & CT have been mainly full time for
years. If they do other work its secondary to their refereeing responsibilities.

Are you sure about this and was it made common knowledge?

hibbysam
14-11-2016, 06:13 PM
[QUOTE=hibbysam;4859078]No they haven't. You might want to tell the head of refereeing that though if they are.[/QUOT

Beaton became a full time ref earlier this year. The others on the FIFA list eg Collum & CT have been mainly full time for
years. If they do other work its secondary to their refereeing responsibilities.

So in June of this year the head of refereeing was just making up stories then? Strange if so.

brog
14-11-2016, 06:14 PM
[QUOTE=StevieCowan;4859087][QUOTE=brog;4859085]

Are you sure about this and was it made common knowledge?[/QUOT

Im 100% sure bout Beaton but currently on phone.Hard to check but look at a site called footy fanatic. Also look at all WC & CT foreign/midwček assignments & ask yourself could you take that time off your main job.

StevieCowan
14-11-2016, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE=StevieCowan;4859087][QUOTE=brog;4859085]

Are you sure about this and was it made common knowledge?[/QUOT

Im 100% sure bout Beaton but currently on phone.Hard to check but look at a site called footy fanatic. Also look at all WC & CT foreign/midwček assignments & ask yourself could you take that time off your main job.

I don't think that site is correct.

I recall reading that CT was almost full time as he was employed by the SFA in a recruiting capacity but understand that he's now back to his lawyers firm.

The other two I haven't read as being full time

Danderhall Hibs
14-11-2016, 07:08 PM
So in June of this year the head of refereeing was just making up stories then? Strange if so.

Wouldn't surprise me. They make other stuff up routinely and their mates in the refereeing club back them up.

Danderhall Hibs
14-11-2016, 07:08 PM
Not for me thanks. No desire to be branded a cheat on a weekly basis.

Break the mound and apply the rules then?

matty_f
14-11-2016, 07:25 PM
Wouldn't surprise me. They make other stuff up routinely and their mates in the refereeing club back them up.

:agree: did that not lead to one of them quitting a while back?

Danderhall Hibs
14-11-2016, 07:38 PM
:agree: did that not lead to one of them quitting a while back?

Hugh Dallas. Or was it Dougie McDonald?

Pretty sure both left after some sort of scandal.

Sergey
14-11-2016, 07:42 PM
Hugh Dallas. Or was it Dougie McDonald?

Pretty sure both left after some sort of scandal.

Hugh Dallas had a window/door/conservatory company that was wound up and it transpired there was a few fraudulent transactions taking place while his company was trading.

IIRC - that is what caused him to step down. Not sure if his son is still involved as a ref.

Danderhall Hibs
14-11-2016, 07:46 PM
Hugh Dallas had a window/door/conservatory company that was wound up and it transpired there was a few fraudulent transactions taking place while his company was trading.

IIRC - that is what caused him to step down. Not sure if his son is still involved as a ref.

McDonald lied in his match report and Dallas was alleged to have sent a joke about the pope in an email.

Craigmount Hibs
14-11-2016, 07:57 PM
Alan Muir. He's never, ever got anything wrong. Ever. He's just perfect.

Slim Shady
15-11-2016, 12:03 AM
McDonald lied in his match report and Dallas was alleged to have sent a joke about the pope in an email.

Incorrect.

McDonald didn't lie in his match report. Dallas 'did' fwd a a joke about the pope.

Danderhall Hibs
15-11-2016, 06:57 AM
Incorrect.

McDonald didn't lie in his match report. Dallas 'did' fwd a a joke about the pope.

What was it again then? He told the linesman to lie and he'd cover his arse for him?

Scouse Hibee
15-11-2016, 08:31 AM
Peter Houston
Fanny Hat
Neilson

brog
15-11-2016, 11:04 AM
[QUOTE=StevieCowan;4859087][QUOTE=brog;4859085]

Are you sure about this and was it made common knowledge?[/QUOT

Im 100% sure bout Beaton but currently on phone.Hard to check but look at a site called footy fanatic. Also look at all WC & CT foreign/midwček assignments & ask yourself could you take that time off your main job.

6 of our 7 FIFA refs have been on the list for at least 3 years, Dallas being the exception. These refs travel the world, it's not possible for them to hold down a full time job while doing this so I would argue that refereeing is their #1 occupation. Beaton was a p/t administrator at Strathclyde Uni but became a full time ref earlier this year. Clancy & CT are lawyers, explains a lot. Collum was head of RE at a senior comprehensive until 2011 until he stepped down because of his refereeing responsibilities. He continued as a teacher until 2014 but I'm not sure if he's still in place. Certainly my wife, who taught for far too many years, could not pop out for a couple of days every 2nd week during the season! Hard to find much info on Madden & McLean but I did find an old article on Iain Brines, another wonderful ref, who stated years ago that though he was employed by the Police he regarded himself as a full time referee. I 100% agree our 'standard' refs are more full time in their other jobs & p/t as refs but I believe the FIFA refs are the opposite. PS, I hadn't realised the huge disparity between match fees for Scottish Premiership & Championship games, £600! It's probably for that reason that Beaton et al are pissed off at us!

JDHibs
15-11-2016, 02:30 PM
I know for a fact that Alan Muir holds down a full time job on top of his refereeing duties.

He also gets £850 a match that he is referee, £400 for 4th official and £300 for linesman.

They are well paid for what they do and should have harsher punishments for their mistakes.

Peevemor
15-11-2016, 02:39 PM
I know for a fact that Alan Muir holds down a full time job on top of his refereeing duties.

He also gets £850 a match that he is referee, £400 for 4th official and £300 for linesman.

They are well paid for what they do and should have harsher punishments for their mistakes.

Why does the 4th official get more than a linesman? Seems strange.

blackpoolhibs
15-11-2016, 03:14 PM
Well we have Five top refs, you learn something new every day.

Danderhall Hibs
15-11-2016, 03:33 PM
Why does the 4th official get more than a linesman? Seems strange.

Does the 4th official have to be a qualified ref and the linesman don't?

JDHibs
15-11-2016, 03:52 PM
4th officials gets more as they may need to step onto the pitch as ref i imagine...

GreenCastle
15-11-2016, 04:07 PM
Assistant Refs...remember woman do the role also!

I find it odd they don't have 4th officials in this league - only some games last season they did. Odd not having the board go up with added time.

brog
15-11-2016, 04:17 PM
Why does the 4th official get more than a linesman? Seems strange.

The 4th official is a referee, could even be 1 of our 7 FIFA refs. Assistant refs now usually remain in that role, ie running the line rather than taking charge of senior games.

brog
15-11-2016, 04:23 PM
I know for a fact that Alan Muir holds down a full time job on top of his refereeing duties.

He also gets £850 a match that he is referee, £400 for 4th official and £300 for linesman.

They are well paid for what they do and should have harsher punishments for their mistakes.

He gets £850 for reffing top level matches but only £250 for reffing Championship games, a huge difference! Over the last 3 years with 3 of Scotland's biggest teams being in the 2nd level we've seen our FIFA refs far more than usual at this level. I was being serious when I said it's possible they're pissed off at losing money because of being selected to ref our game. Mind you they never seemed to take it out on the 2 admin cousins!

JDHibs
15-11-2016, 04:25 PM
It was his cousin who told me that who i work with. Its a flat rate agreement as far as im aware.

beensaidbefore
15-11-2016, 05:46 PM
Break the mound and apply the rules then?

I'm not sure I get you?

brog
15-11-2016, 05:48 PM
It was his cousin who told me that who i work with. Its a flat rate agreement as far as im aware.

It definitely varies by division. There was a big fuss a couple of years ago when CT got £195 for reffing Sevco vs Yams & meanwhile someone got £800 for reffing Hamilton Partick.