Scotland

[theonlywayisup]

As a footballing nation, we are really really poor.

How bad is it going to be before this proud nation does something about it.

I don't blame Strachan. I don't blame today's players.

No the blames lies with all of those who have input into Scottish football for the last 30 years. We are getting increasingly worse.

The quality of player today is miles worse than where we were 30 years ago.

I blame the schools. I blame the pro-youth teams. I blame the boys football teams. I blame the Government. I blame the professional football teams. I blame the dads that take their sons football teams. You're all to blame.

[Itsnoteasy]

As a footballing nation, we are really really poor.

How bad is it going to be before this proud nation does something about it.

I don't blame Strachan. I don't blame today's players.

No the blames lies with all of those who have input into Scottish football for the last 30 years. We are getting increasingly worse.

The quality of player today is miles worse than where we were 30 years ago.

I blame the schools. I blame the pro-youth teams. I blame the boys football teams. I blame the Government. I blame the professional football teams. I blame the dads that take their sons football teams. You're all to blame.

What are you blaming them for.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Do an Iceland, do a Spain, do a France....realise that all we've done before isn't working. Rip up the book and start again. Two steps back to go forward.

[theonlywayisup]

What are you blaming them for.

Scotland being a joke of a football team. The poor quality of player that we have today.

[theonlywayisup]

Do an Iceland, do a Spain, do a France....realise that all we've done before isn't working. Rip up the book and start again. Two steps back to go forward.

Totally agree - rip it all up and start fresh from the under 8s

[Ozyhibby]

See before we tried to centrally control everything, we actually produced good players.


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[Itsnoteasy]

Scotland being a joke of a football team. The poor quality of player that we have today.

So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

[Scorrie]

The thing is there are hundreds of games on across Scotland every Saturday. Perhaps we should have a proper pyramid where good players can get to the top. We have so many different leagues - SPFL, senior non-league, juniors, amateurs, welfare etc the organisation of Scottish football hasn't moved on. I'm sure we do produce the players. We just need the proper system in place to allow them to develop and a manager who will pick players on form and not thier favourites. ....and breathe!

[theonlywayisup]

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

So we give up then!!

[David_D]

Surely no matter how many times we say start again at youth level, We should still be able to put a team out that shows fight and quality. We aren't a country of useless players. We just have absolutely no structure at the moment. All in my opinion of course

[tamig]

So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

We never had a string of top class sprinters before or after Wells. We've always had a pretty steady stream of top class footballers, but that well appears to have run dry.

What did Mark Wotte do in all the years he was royally rewarded by the SFA? What was his legacy? Certainly not a rich seam of talent. The SFA need to look at other countries and start again from scratch. Something has to change.

[Itsnoteasy]

So we give up then!!

Well you have said it is everyone's fault that they are s***e. So who is going to achieve this minor miracle. If the parents or volunteers didnae take these boys clubs I'm afraid there would be no more football

[Deansy]

Do an Iceland, do a Spain, do a France....realise that all we've done before isn't working. Rip up the book and start again. Two steps back to go forward.

Any footballing initiative in this country doesn't stand a chance UNLESS it benefits both of the 'Ugly Sisters' - same applies if the initiative benefits ALL of Scottish Football !

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

See before we tried to centrally control everything, we actually produced good players.


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That's when we all piled up the school playground with yer Adidas Bambas and a Wembley Trophy moulded ball and played till sunset.

Then when there were only a couple of yous left you played long shot bangers or wall tennis.

Changed days.

[theonlywayisup]

Well you have said it is everyone's fault that they are s***e. So who is going to achieve this minor miracle. If the parents or volunteers didnae take these boys clubs I'm afraid there would be no more football

I take it you're one of the dads. Me too!!

But it's wrong. No dad should coach or manage their own sons team. But that is only the start of it.

It's the win at all cost mentality. How many coaches have said "it's performances not wins that means most to me" yet end up playing the physically stronger players or shout when a player miscontrols the ball or plays a poor ball.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

Tainted.

[GreenCastle]

It's not that simple..

Change is needed at the top - those running the game and the SFA

Culture - even the official Scottish FA social media is posting pics of fans drinking at 8.20am on a train down to the game. Scotland has a drinking culture and poor diet in its youngsters - needs changed.

Coaches - jobs for the boys. An ex player doesn't make a good coach. Our best coaches should be at youth level - no point having just good coaches at 18 years plus when kids can't do the basics.

School - better PE lessons teaching kids how to be agile, balance and co-ordination plus learn to run.

Finally...footballers do need brains to get them to the next level - effort can get you so far - not just a football brain but problem solving and intelligence when situations change in games -including a strong mindset.

[Itsnoteasy]

I take it you're one of the dads. Me too!!

But it's wrong. No dad should coach or manage their own sons team. But that is only the start of it.

It's the win at all cost mentality. How many coaches have said "it's performances not wins that means most to me" yet end up playing the physically stronger players or shout when a player miscontrols the ball or plays a poor ball.

No but I know it's a thankless task. The parents who watch there loved ones know better than the coach but are unwilling to help. And your no allowed to make them a sub. I take my hat off to all parents & volunteers like yourself.

[theonlywayisup]

It's not that simple..

Change is needed at the top - those running the game and the SFA

Culture - even the official Scottish FA social media is posting pics of fans drinking at 8.20am on a train down to the game. Scotland has a drinking culture and poor diet in its youngsters - needs changed.

Coaches - jobs for the boys. An ex player doesn't make a good coach. Our best coaches should be at youth level - no point having just good coaches at 18 years plus when kids can't do the basis.

School - better PE lessons teaching kids how to be agile, balance and co-ordination plus learn to run.

Finally...footballers do need brains to get them to the next level - effort can get you so far - not just a football brain but problem solving and intelligence when situations change in games -including a strong mindset.

You're right.

The reason I posted the maybe controversial view is that over 20 years ago after we failed to qualify for the 1994 World Cup Gordon Strachan was live on a national debate about what had gone wrong with Scottish football. Here we are 22 years later and we've only qualified for two out of the next 11 competitions. And we're getting worse. Miles worse.

[GreenCastle]

No but I know it's a thankless task. The parents who watch there loved ones know better than the coach but are unwilling to help. And your no allowed to make them a sub. I take my hat off to all parents & volunteers like yourself.

Agreed parents and volunteers are least of the issues.

Yes they need educated at times but especially playing through the winter and miles they drive to training and games - I think it's unfair to have a go at them.

You could say many volunteer coaches get given certificates when they aren't up to standard - but it's because the SFA get funding and need to fill courses and claim they have X amount of qualified coaches to show they are trying to progress.

Quantity over quality sadly.

[theonlywayisup]

No but I know it's a thankless task. The parents who watch there loved ones know better than the coach but are unwilling to help. And your no allowed to make them a sub. I take my hat off to all parents & volunteers like yourself.

If it wasn't for the dads we would be even worse. But we need a completely new approach. I've seen a team completely destroyed by one parents reluctance to drop their own son.

[GreenCastle]

You're right.

The reason I posted the maybe controversial view is that over 20 years ago after we failed to qualify for the 1994 World Cup Gordon Strachan was live on a national debate about what had gone wrong with Scottish football. Here we are 22 years later and we've only qualified for two out of the next 11 competitions. And we're getting worse. Miles worse.


It will continue to get worse - doesn't matter the manager. Jose or Pep wouldn't have won against an average England team.

We need our players playing abroad in good leagues - lower English leagues or lower EPL isn't a good standard. They need to be in top 4 teams in Germany, Spain, Italy but sadly it won't happen. England have the same issue - Wales have Bale at Madrid. Iceland players are all over Europe out the comfort zone of their own county.

The thing is other countries are progressing and the gaps growing and we aren't even addressing the problems. These 2020 centres they have are failing and we don't even have a head of football as they appointed Mclair and was completely the wrong choice.

[Wee Effen Bee]

It's not that simple..

Change is needed at the top - those running the game and the SFA

Culture - even the official Scottish FA social media is posting pics of fans drinking at 8.20am on a train down to the game. Scotland has a drinking culture and poor diet in its youngsters - needs changed.

Coaches - jobs for the boys. An ex player doesn't make a good coach. Our best coaches should be at youth level - no point having just good coaches at 18 years plus when kids can't do the basics.

School - better PE lessons teaching kids how to be agile, balance and co-ordination plus learn to run.

Finally...footballers do need brains to get them to the next level - effort can get you so far - not just a football brain but problem solving and intelligence when situations change in games -including a strong mindset.

Aye, it's the teachers fault ah tellz ye! So people on here criticising 'volunteers' such as parents and teachers. How dare they give up their own free time - unpaid - to allow youngsters a chance to take part in sport. I highlighted the bit which tells me know absolutely nothing about the curriculum but, hey ho, don't let the truth get in the way of a good moan. Just attack groups of people who are easy targets. Sad and pathetic.

[ScottB]

Strachan needs to go, there's been enough stories about him being unsure about continuing or needing talked into it; if his heart ain't it, then he shouldn't be there.

He still has no idea what his starting 11 is, his comments tonight about not being sure what else he could try sounds like beaten man, and wins over Malta and Gibraltar aside, we're on an awful run of form.

[GreenCastle]

Aye, it's the teachers fault ah tellz ye! So people on here criticising 'volunteers' such as parents and teachers. How dare they give up their own free time - unpaid - to allow youngsters a chance to take part in sport. I highlighted the bit which tells me know absolutely nothing about the curriculum but, hey ho, don't let the truth get in the way of a good moan. Just attack groups of people who are easy targets. Sad and pathetic.

Easy tiger..I have plenty PE teaching friends - some very good ones in fact.

I also know some schools who don't do enough physical activity and hence why we have quite a few kids over weight - diet contributes also - both at school and home.

Tell me more about the curriculum then ? Do you feel it's teaching enough ABCs and a mixture of different sports ? Rugby and Tennis taught in these schools also along with cycling since these seem to be the main Scottish sports ? Are the teachers specialist in football at school or just hired to do various sports (which is fine) but to go to the next level kids need to do specific sport related practice.

[Onion]

Scottish football, both national and domestically, has been mismanaged by all those involved in the game. The self-interest of clubs, the cut-throat league system, Reagan and Doncaster are all to blame. Until we have a root and branch review and reset of the game, the game will continue to decline in Scotland.

Any Premier Division that includes Ross County, Inverness and Hamilton's core established clubs is going nowhere.

[GreenCastle]

Scottish football, both national and domestically, has been mismanaged by all those involved in the game. The self-interest of clubs, the cut-throat league system, Reagan and Doncaster are all to blame. Until we have a root and branch review and reset of the game, the game will continue to decline in Scotland.

Any Premier Division that includes Ross County, Inverness and Hamilton's core established clubs is going nowhere.

This person gets it - until those in power at the top we can change manager as many times as you want but nothing will change.

Funny thing is every loss / poor performance it's the same nonsense on phone ins and radio and many so called experts can't even realise it's a huge problem - they are oblivious to it.

[LaMotta]

how are the players meant to play properly in that ***in stupid pink outfit!

[mjhibby]

I take it you're one of the dads. Me too!!

But it's wrong. No dad should coach or manage their own sons team. But that is only the start of it.

It's the win at all cost mentality. How many coaches have said "it's performances not wins that means most to me" yet end up playing the physically stronger players or shout when a player miscontrols the ball or plays a poor ball.

I'm afraid that's it in a nutshell. Every boys club starts out with a remit to produce good football teams who can compete. As time goes on though the need to justify what the coaches do takes over and they feel they need to win most games and of course trophies. Ive seen it with the club I coach with over the last couple of seasons where gradually all the focus is veering towards the club winning something. Players who are really good at 10,11,12 don't always become top players. Danny Galbraith was a top youngster destined for the top but never kicked on. Hibs won the youth cup in the early nineties but most of the team disappeared down the leagues. Players like Christophe Berra didn't even play for the school team and Ian wright didn't go professional till in his 20s and of course our very own darren mcgregor story is well documented. Coaches can either coach kids to become good footballers or can coach teams to win most matches. Right now the latter seems to run through Scottish football. Rant over.

[lord bunberry]

Any footballing initiative in this country doesn't stand a chance UNLESS it benefits both of the 'Ugly Sisters' - same applies if the initiative benefits ALL of Scottish Football !
:agree: While our game is being run to the benefit of 2 clubs we will continue to scrape along the bottom.

[Pretty Boy]

What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

[hibsbollah]

What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

They move to 11 a side in S1. So age 11/12.

A lot of the time I spend watching boys club and schools football is depressing viewing. Ive lost count of the number of parochial jumped up Hitlers ive met who think they are a latter day Eddie Turnbull (or John Greig, usually) because they've spent an afternoon in a stuffy office listening to one of the SFA coaching routeway sessions. But a crap coach is usually unwilling to acknowledge they are crap, and they are usually in place for years and years, getting more and more self righteous as the time goes on.

[CallumLaidlaw]

What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

My son plays for a 2005's team. They are 7 a side at the minute and move to 11's next August. I'll be fair to the coach as he focuses on playing in triangles, 4 touches, passing out from the back, etc.


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[hibsbollah]

Surely no matter how many times we say start again at youth level, We should still be able to put a team out that shows fight and quality. We aren't a country of useless players. We just have absolutely no structure at the moment. All in my opinion of course

Im afraid we have an absolute mountain of 'structure', especially when kids football is concerned. Its just not very good.

[Stonewall]

What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

Start 11s in S1. At least a year too early imo.

My son currently plays boys club football and that's only one of the problems.

The depressing state of Scottish Football needs more than a couple of paragraphs to do justice to, however the fact that more players on display last night came through Livingston's youth system than the combined systems of our two biggest clubs tells its own story.

[Earl of Currie]

:agree: While our game is being run to the benefit of 2 clubs we will continue to scrape along the bottom.

Everyone is guilty of allowing this to happen , SFA , Clubs , fans.
We have allowed to continue to allow two clubs to dictate how the game is run through our collective actions.
Unfortunately for Scottish Football , there is now a culture of apathy and in many respects we have given up as a footballing nation.

Some of the comments on this site are spot on but sadly some have been discussed for as long as 40 years.
Because many clubs are dependant on the OF money , it is going to take some brave individuals to start a revolution , as that is the only thing which will start change.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the current pro youth set up is wrong and I think resources would be better spent getting good coaches into boys clubs.
Just now they are trying to pick kids at 9 years old who are going to make it. That is a crazily difficult thing to do.
It's not even easy at 16. Here is the Victory Sheild team from 2010. These were what we thought were the very best talents in Scotland. The future stars of the game.

--------
Ryan Crump (goalkeeper, Liverpool) - Progressing well at Anfield and a safe pair of hands in the competition so far.

Jamie Hart (goalkeeper, Celtic) - Another tipped for a big future. Terrific shot-stopper with a great attitude.

Stewart Urqhuart (defender, Rangers) - A strong and commanding central defender who leads by example. Skipper is the first person from Glasgow Gaelic School to win international honours.

Kyle Turnbull (defender, Falkirk) - One of the most experienced players. A steady left-back who never gets ruffled and has also played for the U-17s.

Darren Ramsay (defender, Rangers) - Midfielder at club level but has made the right-back role his own with Scotland. Composed defensively and gets forward.

Gerrard Lunday (defender, Dundee Utd) - Strapping centre-half was handed his debut against Northern Ireland. Coped well with the step up.

Stuart Findlay (defender, Celtic) - A good reader of the game who is lightning quick. Strong in the air and tackle.

Ross Madden (defender, Celtic) - Composed left-back with big future. Injury has curtailed his progress this year.

Blair Munn (midfield, Falkirk) - Accomplished central midfielder possesses a great range of passing.

Lewis Kidd (midfield, Celtic) - Loves to burst forward from engine room and is always capable of getting a goal.

Jamie Lindsay (midfield, Celtic) - Top-class vision and accurate passing. Best link between midfield and attack.

Craig Johnstone (midfield, Queen's Park) - Wideman with bags of pace. Loves to take players on and get crosses in.

Gary Duggan (midfield, Queen's Park) - Hugs the left flank and another not afraid to run at defenders. Has a great delivery and a set-piece expert.

Craig Storrie (midfield, Aberdeen) - Baby of the side at just 14. Has incredible fitness and made debut against Wales.

Denny Johnstone (striker, Celtic) - Tall, rangy and an accomplished finisher. A real handful in the tournament so far.

Jack Kirwan (striker, Celtic) - Similar in stature to Johnstone and another with keen eye for goal. Been used as impact player to good effect.

Cameron Smith (striker, Aberdeen) - Aiming for clean sweep tonight after scoring against Wales and Northern Ireland.

Scotland's best player during the Victory Shield.

Craig Sibbald (striker, Falkirk) - Just returned to the squad after injury. Impressed as sub against Northern Ireland and Wales.

-------
Out of that team, Sibbald is the only one I'm aware of still playing. And they were 16 year olds. They should just be hitting their peak right now.
Amazingly, even though we know we can't pick them at 16, we're trying to do it at 10. Mental.


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[mjhibby]

My son plays for a 2005's team. They are 7 a side at the minute and move to 11's next August. I'll be fair to the coach as he focuses on playing in triangles, 4 touches, passing out from the back, etc.


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Some youth clubs like bonnyrigg,spartans and especially tranent are doing it right and are a delight to watch and play against. Your right that there are so many areas needing sorted even from the dad's berating their kids and the coaches. A had a great game a few weeks ago when both our team and the other side played out a brilliant game with loads of passes,one twos some terrific goals and played at a terrific pace. When the game finished both teams got great applause from all the parents and it was a pleasure to be involved with. During the game the kids got nothing but encouragement from the sidelines and the parents were wowed by the passing moves. Unfortunately most games aren't like that and most kids think their failing if they lose a game. One recommendation I would make is that we have one coaching method,like Holland,and we all develop the same way. Obviously you can make exceptions for precocious kids but I think it would help if we had at least a uniformed approach. You can see every week where there are two coaches they are not on the same wavelength.

[theonlywayisup]

Scottish football, both national and domestically, has been mismanaged by all those involved in the game. The self-interest of clubs, the cut-throat league system, Reagan and Doncaster are all to blame. Until we have a root and branch review and reset of the game, the game will continue to decline in Scotland.

Any Premier Division that includes Ross County, Inverness and Hamilton's core established clubs is going nowhere.

But did we not have one a few years ago by the McLeish

[CallumLaidlaw]

I think the current pro youth set up is wrong and I think resources would be better spent getting good coaches into boys clubs.
Just now they are trying to pick kids at 9 years old who are going to make it. That is a crazily difficult thing to do.
It's not even easy at 16. Here is the Victory Sheild team from 2010. These were what we thought were the very best talents in Scotland. The future stars of the game.

--------
Ryan Crump (goalkeeper, Liverpool) - Progressing well at Anfield and a safe pair of hands in the competition so far.

Jamie Hart (goalkeeper, Celtic) - Another tipped for a big future. Terrific shot-stopper with a great attitude.

Stewart Urqhuart (defender, Rangers) - A strong and commanding central defender who leads by example. Skipper is the first person from Glasgow Gaelic School to win international honours.

Kyle Turnbull (defender, Falkirk) - One of the most experienced players. A steady left-back who never gets ruffled and has also played for the U-17s.

Darren Ramsay (defender, Rangers) - Midfielder at club level but has made the right-back role his own with Scotland. Composed defensively and gets forward.

Gerrard Lunday (defender, Dundee Utd) - Strapping centre-half was handed his debut against Northern Ireland. Coped well with the step up.

Stuart Findlay (defender, Celtic) - A good reader of the game who is lightning quick. Strong in the air and tackle.

Ross Madden (defender, Celtic) - Composed left-back with big future. Injury has curtailed his progress this year.

Blair Munn (midfield, Falkirk) - Accomplished central midfielder possesses a great range of passing.

Lewis Kidd (midfield, Celtic) - Loves to burst forward from engine room and is always capable of getting a goal.

Jamie Lindsay (midfield, Celtic) - Top-class vision and accurate passing. Best link between midfield and attack.

Craig Johnstone (midfield, Queen's Park) - Wideman with bags of pace. Loves to take players on and get crosses in.

Gary Duggan (midfield, Queen's Park) - Hugs the left flank and another not afraid to run at defenders. Has a great delivery and a set-piece expert.

Craig Storrie (midfield, Aberdeen) - Baby of the side at just 14. Has incredible fitness and made debut against Wales.

Denny Johnstone (striker, Celtic) - Tall, rangy and an accomplished finisher. A real handful in the tournament so far.

Jack Kirwan (striker, Celtic) - Similar in stature to Johnstone and another with keen eye for goal. Been used as impact player to good effect.

Cameron Smith (striker, Aberdeen) - Aiming for clean sweep tonight after scoring against Wales and Northern Ireland.

Scotland's best player during the Victory Shield.

Craig Sibbald (striker, Falkirk) - Just returned to the squad after injury. Impressed as sub against Northern Ireland and Wales.

-------
Out of that team, Sibbald is the only one I'm aware of still playing. And they were 16 year olds. They should just be hitting their peak right now.
Amazingly, even though we know we can't pick them at 16, we're trying to do it at 10. Mental.


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Denny Johnstone as well


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[theonlywayisup]

My son plays for a 2005's team. They are 7 a side at the minute and move to 11's next August. I'll be fair to the coach as he focuses on playing in triangles, 4 touches, passing out from the back, etc.


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It all goes pear shaped when they start on the big 11 a side pitches - trust me!

[LancsHibs]

The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

[Saint Hibee]

Not sure if this has been posted, but an interesting read on what's wrong with youth development in Scotland, including some interesting thoughts from our own Neil Lennon: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/09/scotland-talent-decline-kenny-dalglish-england-wembley

[Marco G]

Surely no matter how many times we say start again at youth level, We should still be able to put a team out that shows fight and quality. We aren't a country of useless players. We just have absolutely no structure at the moment. All in my opinion of course
Think you have got it right. We can still try to improve our youth set ups etc, but we have enough players good enough for EPL/Championship and our own top league who should be able to form a team that can get results.

Look at N Ireland & Wales and ROI. Its about getting a system that can work even when the team changes. I thought Strachan was getting there last campaign but it all seems to have gone pear shaped now.

There are a lot of countries who dont have stronger leagues or better resources than we do, but can qualify for tournaments. Eg the above, Denmark, Austrua, Slovenia to name a few.

To me its about finding the right manager playing the right systems!

[GreenCastle]

Everyone is guilty of allowing this to happen , SFA , Clubs , fans.
We have allowed to continue to allow two clubs to dictate how the game is run through our collective actions.
Unfortunately for Scottish Football , there is now a culture of apathy and in many respects we have given up as a footballing nation.

Some of the comments on this site are spot on but sadly some have been discussed for as long as 40 years.
Because many clubs are dependant on the OF money , it is going to take some brave individuals to start a revolution , as that is the only thing which will start change.

Agreed - bit harsh to blame the fans but I guess we put up with it when it's been bad for so long.

The old firm supporters aren't exactly bothered about the national team - more about the bigot fest when they play each other.

[GreenCastle]

But did we not have one a few years ago by the McLeish

The thing which makes me laugh about the this is why was Henry Mcleish the one to do a review of Scottish football ?!! He was first minister..and..

Surely get a review done by top coaches / managers in the world - not someone who has no idea / dated ideas of football.

[GreenCastle]

The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

EPL is such an over rated league. More average games that good games. Foreign players / coaches can help British players learn new ideas etc but at the same time how many English managers have won the EPL (modern) - and how well have England done since the money has come in.

England have a big problem also with player development - we shouldn't be saying a player is good just because they play down south in a average league - maybe if Scottish player made up the top 4 teams playing in champions league but most can hardly get a game for their English side.

Scotland needs to look more at home and ways to fix own leagues and structure as players will continue to leave which is fine but the standard of player being produced isn't good enough.

[leithsansiro]

As a footballing nation, we are really really poor.

How bad is it going to be before this proud nation does something about it.

I don't blame Strachan. I don't blame today's players.

No the blames lies with all of those who have input into Scottish football for the last 30 years. We are getting increasingly worse.

The quality of player today is miles worse than where we were 30 years ago.

I blame the schools. I blame the pro-youth teams. I blame the boys football teams. I blame the Government. I blame the professional football teams. I blame the dads that take their sons football teams. You're all to blame.

You blame the dads that take their sons football teams? Have a word with yourself! Without people volunteering to help out with teams, there would e no teams.

If you want to go slinging mud around about kids football, don't blame the parents who make an effort. Blame the ones who stand on the sidelines and hurl abuse at their child for not completing Messi-type dribbles or loudly shout that their offspring should "f***ing chop that boy" if the opposition have anyone skilful. Blame the parents who want the ball launched forward as fast as possible.

[AlbertK86]

I think the current pro youth set up is wrong and I think resources would be better spent getting good coaches into boys clubs. Just now they are trying to pick kids at 9 years old who are going to make it. That is a crazily difficult thing to do. It's not even easy at 16. Here is the Victory Sheild team from 2010. These were what we thought were the very best talents in Scotland. The future stars of the game. -------- Ryan Crump (goalkeeper, Liverpool) - Progressing well at Anfield and a safe pair of hands in the competition so far. Jamie Hart (goalkeeper, Celtic) - Another tipped for a big future. Terrific shot-stopper with a great attitude. Stewart Urqhuart (defender, Rangers) - A strong and commanding central defender who leads by example. Skipper is the first person from Glasgow Gaelic School to win international honours. Kyle Turnbull (defender, Falkirk) - One of the most experienced players. A steady left-back who never gets ruffled and has also played for the U-17s. Darren Ramsay (defender, Rangers) - Midfielder at club level but has made the right-back role his own with Scotland. Composed defensively and gets forward. Gerrard Lunday (defender, Dundee Utd) - Strapping centre-half was handed his debut against Northern Ireland. Coped well with the step up. Stuart Findlay (defender, Celtic) - A good reader of the game who is lightning quick. Strong in the air and tackle. Ross Madden (defender, Celtic) - Composed left-back with big future. Injury has curtailed his progress this year. Blair Munn (midfield, Falkirk) - Accomplished central midfielder possesses a great range of passing. Lewis Kidd (midfield, Celtic) - Loves to burst forward from engine room and is always capable of getting a goal. Jamie Lindsay (midfield, Celtic) - Top-class vision and accurate passing. Best link between midfield and attack. Craig Johnstone (midfield, Queen's Park) - Wideman with bags of pace. Loves to take players on and get crosses in. Gary Duggan (midfield, Queen's Park) - Hugs the left flank and another not afraid to run at defenders. Has a great delivery and a set-piece expert. Craig Storrie (midfield, Aberdeen) - Baby of the side at just 14. Has incredible fitness and made debut against Wales. Denny Johnstone (striker, Celtic) - Tall, rangy and an accomplished finisher. A real handful in the tournament so far. Jack Kirwan (striker, Celtic) - Similar in stature to Johnstone and another with keen eye for goal. Been used as impact player to good effect. Cameron Smith (striker, Aberdeen) - Aiming for clean sweep tonight after scoring against Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland's best player during the Victory Shield. Craig Sibbald (striker, Falkirk) - Just returned to the squad after injury. Impressed as sub against Northern Ireland and Wales. ------- Out of that team, Sibbald is the only one I'm aware of still playing. And they were 16 year olds. They should just be hitting their peak right now. Amazingly, even though we know we can't pick them at 16, we're trying to do it at 10. Mental. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stuart Findlay
Jamie Lindsay
Lewis Kidd

All still playing in Scottish leagues

[mjhibby]

You blame the dads that take their sons football teams? Have a word with yourself! Without people volunteering to help out with teams, there would e no teams.

If you want to go slinging mud around about kids football, don't blame the parents who make an effort. Blame the ones who stand on the sidelines and hurl abuse at their child for not completing Messi-type dribbles or loudly shout that their offspring should "f***ing chop that boy" if the opposition have anyone skilful. Blame the parents who want the ball launched forward as fast as possible.

That made me smile as it's so true. To be fair these dad's are not as prevelant as before but still are enough to affect a good few youngster.

[GreenCastle]

Another issue - stop trying to copy other nations.

Scotland needs to have its own plans and ideas and find a solution that suits Scotland.

No point saying we want the Iceland, Holland, Barcelona, Spanish, Brazilian set up..

Yes we can learn from them but we not to have own our structure suited to the game here. However as I said in earlier posts as Mark Wotte showed it's nearly a waste of time unless the people at SFA change and the Old Firm monopoly changes.

[lord bunberry]

Every time we have a review we look at trying to implement a policy that has worked for another country. We need to get everyone round the table and find a way forward that suits Scotland.
I think Strachan will go, but that is only rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

[jacomo]

The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

1. The EPL is not holding Wales back
2. There is nothing Scotland can do about it anyhow

I accept that Wales have a number of individual players who are a step above what we have at the moment, but much of their squad is on a level with us.

What Coleman has done is identify the best players he has available and then work on a system that plays to their strengths. Our centre back pairing is awful and I felt sorry for Super Leigh last night - dropped into the team after hardly any starts and expected to deliver.

The other side is the youth set up. Better facilities and better coaching, with a focus on skills development, not just favouring the big lads. Iceland is a good model, there are others.

[Dublin07]

So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

It's not that kids are not interested. Kids are still interested in playing football and are still doing so in huge numbers. It's the coaching and overall structure that's wrong. Kids are being taught how to win games at 8 years old before they are coached on skill, touch, movement. Go down any public park and you will hear kids being shouted at for making mistakes at 8 or 9 years old.
what happens in a lot of cases is you have the biggest, quickest 7 year olds hammering teams every week because of their physical attributes. The coaches or dads in most cases are delighted and feel like the new fergie. They don't then coach them basic skills and 3 or 4 years down the line when they are playing 11 a side their skill and game management is terrible and they struggle.

[Allant1981]

We actually have a lot of decent players, they are never going to be world class and think everyone knows that but the in form players need to be picked and played in proper positions

[blackpoolhibs]

There is no one answer to rectify this, but getting rid of all the dinosaurs in the SFA would be a great start.

Then bring in the best foreign men we could afford from Germany, spain, Holland to set the whole thing up from the bottom.

And then they could start on getting players to live correctly, train correctly and treat the ball correctly. There is a gravy train here in Scotland that is making the select few very fat, change is the last thing they want.

Until the time comes where turkeys start voting for xmas, we are stuck with what we have. :rolleyes:

[northstandhibby]

There is no one answer to rectify this, but getting rid of all the dinosaurs in the SFA would be a great start.

Then bring in the best foreign men we could afford from Germany, spain, Holland to set the whole thing up from the bottom.

And then they could start on getting players to live correctly, train correctly and treat the ball correctly. There is a gravy train here in Scotland that is making the select few very fat, change is the last thing they want.

Until the time comes where turkeys start voting for xmas, we are stuck with what we have. :rolleyes:

:top marks

If pushed for change they would probably hire Lord Nimmo Smith to chair an enquiry.

Lord Nimmo Smith - 'The SFA and it's structures has no case to answer, carry on as before'

:rules:

[GreenCastle]

We actually have a lot of decent players, they are never going to be world class and think everyone knows that but the in form players need to be picked and played in proper positions

No we really don't hence why most are playing at average teams.

Our most expensive player can't even get a game..Burke.

[southsider]

It's not that kids are not interested. Kids are still interested in playing football and are still doing so in huge numbers. It's the coaching and overall structure that's wrong. Kids are being taught how to win games at 8 years old before they are coached on skill, touch, movement. Go down any public park and you will hear kids being shouted at for making mistakes at 8 or 9 years old.
what happens in a lot of cases is you have the biggest, quickest 7 year olds hammering teams every week because of their physical attributes. The coaches or dads in most cases are delighted and feel like the new fergie. They don't then coach them basic skills and 3 or 4 years down the line when they are playing 11 a side their skill and game management is terrible and they struggle.
But kids don't seem to play "bounce" games any more. I walked through the meadows last Sunday and there was not one game going on. When I was young (40 odd years ago) every blade of grass had a game going on. We played for the love of the game. Jumpers for goalposts.

[theonlywayisup]

The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

Yet countries such as Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic and Iceland have more/better players in the EPL. The EPL is not to blame. It's all gone wrong way before then.

[theonlywayisup]

But kids don't seem to play "bounce" games any more. I walked through the meadows last Sunday and there was not one game going on. When I was young (40 odd years ago) every blade of grass had a game going on. We played for the love of the game. Jumpers for goalposts.

And I'm sure it's the same in every country in northern Europe, yet we seem to have been more drastically affected. It's got to be more than that!

[GreenCastle]

I actually think we do have some good youth players up to the age of around 14 then they are basically ruined by coaches bad advice / poor club management / bad parent advice / other distractions ( alcohol / bad diet).

But still see the main problem being those who run the game and several who work for the SFA are clowns.

[Wee Effen Bee]

Easy tiger..I have plenty PE teaching friends - some very good ones in fact.

I also know some schools who don't do enough physical activity and hence why we have quite a few kids over weight - diet contributes also - both at school and home.

Tell me more about the curriculum then ? Do you feel it's teaching enough ABCs and a mixture of different sports ? Rugby and Tennis taught in these schools also along with cycling since these seem to be the main Scottish sports ? Are the teachers specialist in football at school or just hired to do various sports (which is fine) but to go to the next level kids need to do specific sport related practice.

Just picked this up. It's OK to blame teachers as you have a 'plenty' of PE teaching friends - very good. Perhaps you should listen to them when they talk about what they provide for their students.
If you do know of some schools who are not fulfilling the two hourly PE sessions a week (minimum) mandate then name them. The Scottish govt. and the CofEdin. Council will be very concerned that this major part of the curriculum is not being met.
Children aren't fat because they don't do sports at school - please stop pedalling this lazy-answer garbage.
Lets see, the three council primary schools, I'm involved with, practise , basketball, football, hockey, golf, rugby, athletics, gymnastics, swimming and other bits and pieces (such as dance) as part of the curriculum throughout the year. Of course there is also the Daily Mile where many schools, not just in Edinburgh but across Scotland, take part in whole-class running each day!
Now add to that the Active sports programme where after-school and lunchtime clubs are provided. At the moment, I know there are clubs for: cycling, judo, rugby, golf, hip hop, dance, basketball, cross country, tennis as well as football sevens. Each school I know of have at least two football teams - boys and girls. The PE curriculum was revamped a while ago and youngsters are taught various aspects of fitness, nutrition and emotional well-being. They are also taught the various skills required in those sports they practise.
The blame for us being poor at football has nothing to do with schools or those unheralded parents/carers who slavishly give up huge amounts of their time for free.

[Colr]

As a footballing nation, we are really really poor.

How bad is it going to be before this proud nation does something about it.

I don't blame Strachan. I don't blame today's players.

No the blames lies with all of those who have input into Scottish football for the last 30 years. We are getting increasingly worse.

The quality of player today is miles worse than where we were 30 years ago.

I blame the schools. I blame the pro-youth teams. I blame the boys football teams. I blame the Government. I blame the professional football teams. I blame the dads that take their sons football teams. You're all to blame.
Small countries like Scotland need the luck of having a couple of world class players emerge at the same time to make an impact Dalglish was our Bale.

We haven't got anyone that's that good at the moment.

I'm not so sure kids play football as much as they used to.

[GreenCastle]

Just picked this up. It's OK to blame teachers as you have a 'plenty' of PE teaching friends - very good. Perhaps you should listen to them when they talk about what they provide for their students.
If you do know of some schools who are not fulfilling the two hourly PE sessions a week (minimum) mandate then name them. The Scottish govt. and the CofEdin. Council will be very concerned that this major part of the curriculum is not being met.
Children aren't fat because they don't do sports at school - please stop pedalling this lazy-answer garbage.
Lets see, the three council primary schools, I'm involved with, practise , basketball, football, hockey, golf, rugby, athletics, gymnastics, swimming and other bits and pieces (such as dance) as part of the curriculum throughout the year. Of course there is also the Daily Mile where many schools, not just in Edinburgh but across Scotland, take part in whole-class running each day!
Now add to that the Active sports programme where after-school and lunchtime clubs are provided. At the moment, I know there are clubs for: cycling, judo, rugby, golf, hip hop, dance, basketball, cross country, tennis as well as football sevens. Each school I know of have at least two football teams - boys and girls. The PE curriculum was revamped a while ago and youngsters are taught various aspects of fitness, nutrition and emotional well-being. They are also taught the various skills required in those sports they practise.
The blame for us being poor at football has nothing to do with schools or those unheralded parents/carers who slavishly give up huge amounts of their time for free.

Fair response.

I wasn't blaming the teachers as I know the challenges they have and amount of planning many have to do to obtain a role and then fulfil it.

Feedback from friends who are teachers though do tell me a lot is often is expected of them and they need help. High numbers in classes etc and a curriculum and homework schedule which can be a struggle.

I also know the push for children to do sport with after schools clubs and many both and girls sports clubs.

My point is that what is in the curriculum isn't enough - the minimum amount I feel - kids should do more at school and the walking initiatives are good ideas but not all schools do that in Scotland.

I also want football qualified specific coaches going into schools to help the PE teachers teach boys and girls the basics of the game. This should happen with other sports to allowing kids to get a head start before they go to their football clubs etc.

You can also take this further back and ask them to do more in nurseries. They are proven drop out rates of older kids also at school doing sport including girls.

I think it would be very short sighted to say the current system is fine. It needs improvement and I appreciate all the work teachers do - was never a dig at them.

[Wee Effen Bee]

Fair response.

I wasn't blaming the teachers as I know the challenges they have and amount of planning many have to do to obtain a role and then fulfil it.

Feedback from friends who are teachers though do tell me a lot is often is expected of them and they need help. High numbers in classes etc and a curriculum and homework schedule which can be a struggle.

I also know the push for children to do sport with after schools clubs and many both and girls sports clubs.

My point is that what is in the curriculum isn't enough - the minimum amount I feel - kids should do more at school and the walking initiatives are good ideas but not all schools do that in Scotland.

I also want football qualified specific coaches going into schools to help the PE teachers teach boys and girls the basics of the game. This should happen with other sports to allowing kids to get a head start before they go to their football clubs etc.

You can also take this further back and ask them to do more in nurseries. They are proven drop out rates of older kids also at school doing sport including girls.

I think it would be very short sighted to say the current system is fine. It needs improvement and I appreciate all the work teachers do - was nerve a dig at them.

Fair dos Castle. Funny thing is, I agree up to a point with your point on more can be done. I would prefer at least 5 hours of physical activity/learning a week for all youngsters. Very few primary schools have PE teachers on-site. If the money was there, I would have specialists in every single school and they would be linked to local sports clubs (football, rugby, hockey, swimming etc.) so the learning could go on for lots more out of school.
The primary curriculum is so full and education has changed so much over the past 10 years that expectations are viewed more holistically now. There are so many different factors to be taken into account that it would be impossible to attach blame or seek a solution from one aspect of society. Look at Ireland and wales, similar class of players almost, but we appear to be light years behind at the moment.
PS, the daily mile is 15 minutes running and more and more schools are participating:greengrin

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

People say it starts at the bottom but I disagree, it starts at the top.

Our football structure has been the same for far too long. Scotland thrived when we had a larger league structure and when teams were able to field youngsters without the cut throat environment of "top flight football" look at the current premiership table. A 2 game swing could see the team in 6th bottom and vice versa. In that situation is a team going to promote youth or sign football journeymen to continue to get by?

I've said it for long enough, we need government intervention to sort this nonsense out. Those at the top table are happy taking big fat cheques but contribute nothing between them in terms of a long term vision for Scottish football.

Maybe once there's a clear plan in place will kids once again dreaming of growing up and playing for their club or country.

In terms of "grassroots" the pitches couldn't be any better. So any kid nowadays has the perfect environment. Rip the whole structure to pieces and start again. Top to bottom and in 10/15/20 years we will see benefits.

But then again, in that situation there might actually be competition for the cancer of our game through the west so those in position of power will never go for that

[Allant1981]

No we really don't hence why most are playing at average teams.

Our most expensive player can't even get a game..Burke.

Yes we do, marshall, robertson, teirney, morrison, snodgrass, anya, mcarthur, griffiths, rhodes, mccormack are all good players

[pontius pilate]

Yes we do, marshall, robertson, teirney, morrison, snodgrass, anya, mcarthur, griffiths, rhodes, mccormack are all good players

along with phillips and ritchie these guys should be the ones that take us forward

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

Strict anti-doping controls....?

[GreenCastle]

Yes we do, marshall, robertson, teirney, morrison, snodgrass, anya, mcarthur, griffiths, rhodes, mccormack are all good players

Marshall - wasn't picked last night - plays for Hull (lower EPL team)

Robertson and Snodgrass also Hull

Tierney and LG - Celtic

Morrison - West Brom

McArthur - Palace

Rhodes - Middlesbrough

McCormack - Villa

Anya - Derby

Average players playing for average teams..that's if they are actually selected - they aren't even the best player in their respective teams.

Only Celtic players have European experience the rest are no where near the Europa League or Champions League playing against the best.

[chinaman]

Hutton got 50 ***IN CAPS Now that's how ***** our country has been.

[theonlywayisup]

Another example of all that is wrong with Scottish football today - a great example of anti-football, where the main focus is on stopping the other team playing rather than trying to pass the ball yourself and be creative with it. Falkirk only seem to score from balls into the box, create havoc and hope to pick up the second balls.

[Ozyhibby]

Another example of all that is wrong with Scottish football today - a great example of anti-football, where the main focus is on stopping the other team playing rather than trying to pass the ball yourself and be creative with it. Falkirk only seem to score from balls into the box, create havoc and hope to pick up the second balls.

That happens in every country though. Do you think that Tenerife show up at the nou camp ready to play open expansive football? Falkirk should be easy to beat if you can score goals.


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[hibsbollah]

Marshall - wasn't picked last night - plays for Hull (lower EPL team)

Robertson and Snodgrass also Hull

Tierney and LG - Celtic

Morrison - West Brom

McArthur - Palace

Rhodes - Middlesbrough

McCormack - Villa

Anya - Derby

Average players playing for average teams..that's if they are actually selected - they aren't even the best player in their respective teams.

Only Celtic players have European experience the rest are no where near the Europa League or Champions League playing against the best.

Just look at the defence. Berra, plays for wolves in the championship. Anya, warming the bench at Derby in the championship. Hanley, not getting a game in the championship at the toon.
It's illogical and unrealistic to expect these kind of players to come out on top against world class attacking players.

[pontius pilate]

Just look at the defence. Berra, plays for wolves in the championship. Anya, warming the bench at Derby in the championship. Hanley, not getting a game in the championship at the toon.
It's illogical and unrealistic to expect these kind of players to come out on top against world class attacking players.


In anya`s defence he isn't a defender

[theonlywayisup]

That happens in every country though. Do you think that Tenerife show up at the nou camp ready to play open expansive football? Falkirk should be easy to beat if you can score goals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, but Hibs are hardly Barcelona!! Falkirk are hardly likely to get relegated. They are, on their day, as good as Hibs - so why not play football. The game we all love.

[pontius pilate]

Marshall - wasn't picked last night - plays for Hull (lower EPL team)

Robertson and Snodgrass also Hull

Tierney and LG - Celtic

Morrison - West Brom

McArthur - Palace

Rhodes - Middlesbrough

McCormack - Villa

Anya - Derby

Average players playing for average teams..that's if they are actually selected - they aren't even the best player in their respective teams.

Only Celtic players have European experience the rest are no where near the Europa League or Champions League playing against the best.

What's the excuse for NI and Wales then take Wales for example they have what two players playing in a top team Ramsay and Bale.Williams is at Everton who are struggling Ledley is at palace and of the top of my head I don't know any players in the NI squad playing at top teams. What I would do is get rid of the old gaurd bring in the younger players now and get a system and keep that system.

[ancient hibee]

Just look at the defence. Berra, plays for wolves in the championship. Anya, warming the bench at Derby in the championship. Hanley, not getting a game in the championship at the toon.
It's illogical and unrealistic to expect these kind of players to come out on top against world class attacking players.

Then why can N.Ireland and the Republic.I've a feeling N.Ireland have more SPL players in their squad than we have.They certainly don't have any more than us playing for top teams.

[superbam]

Republic are top of their group. Man for man, little difference in quality. The problem is not that systemic, just need a manager that is a good match.

[hibsbollah]

In anya`s defence he isn't a defender
...which makes my point for me. He was on a hiding to nothing. And the 'Iceland can do it Wales can do it with lower league dross why can't we' argument is a bit simplistic. Special cases, Wales have a once in a generation crop of world class players, in Icelands case generous public subsidy, and Ireland are a bunch of spawns ****s nicking one goal wins against the run of play all over the place. You'd still always rather have quality players.

[Del Boy]

Stuart Findlay
Jamie Lindsay
Lewis Kidd

All still playing in Scottish leagues

Plus Cammy Smith at Dundee Utd, on loan from Aberdeen

[theonlywayisup]

Here we go again!!

Almost 30 months on and the decline in standards continues.

[Pretty Boy]

Here we go again!!

Almost 30 months on and the decline in standards continues.

Andy Roxburgh is slowly rising from his seat to dig out the blazer and give another interview of cliches to Sportsound this Saturday.

[GreenCastle]

Here we go again!!

Almost 30 months on and the decline in standards continues.

Haha! Good effort finding this thread.

Anyone with a half a brain can see this country is a joke with its national team.

It’s been poor for a while and won’t get better any time soon.

[Scouse Hibee]

:faf::faf::faf:

[Ozyhibby]

Aye but Project Brave? Malky Mackay? The great reformer Ian Maxwell? Change is coming. Stick with them. [emoji23]


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[HoboHarry]

Andy Roxburgh is slowly rising from his seat to dig out the blazer and give another interview of cliches to Sportsound this Saturday.
I've said it a million times - Andy Roxburgh predicted that there was a s***storm coming for our national team and he was pretty much correct in everything he said was wrong with our game...

[Diclonius]

Nothing will change until we drain the SFA swamp and get in forward thinking people with ambition. The manager doesn't matter.

[GreenCastle]

Aye but Project Brave? Malky Mackay? The great reformer Ian Maxwell? Change is coming. Stick with them. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Project brave is the worst name ever for the projected change.

Scottish FA has been a joke for years and until they change it you will get same outcomes.

[theonlywayisup]

What happened to the Henry McLeish review?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8638920.stm

[Smartie]

I've said it a million times - Andy Roxburgh predicted that there was a s***storm coming for our national team and he was pretty much correct in everything he said was wrong with our game...

:agree:

Have we had anyone remotely close to being as competent as Roxburgh since he was around?

He knew his stuff and doesn't deserved to be dragged anywhere near this.

"Aye, but he wiz a teacher. Whit did he ken aboot fitba?"

[Ozyhibby]

What happened to the Henry McLeish review?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8638920.stm

Not implemented because they would have to change.


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[Pretty Boy]

I've said it a million times - Andy Roxburgh predicted that there was a s***storm coming for our national team and he was pretty much correct in everything he said was wrong with our game...

Did you listen to his recent interview?

It was nonsense with the same old tired stuff about 'computer games' and 'no wanting it enough' as if no one in Germany, France, Croatia or Iceland has ever owned a Playstation or been distracted by things other than football. He may have had something relevant to say 25 years ago but predicting a problem (or noticing it after it has already started) and actually identifying the cause and resolving it are 2 different things.

[Diclonius]

Did you listen to his recent interview?

It was nonsense with the same old tired stuff about 'computer games' and 'no wanting it enough' as if no one in Germany, France, Croatia or Iceland has ever owned a Playstation or been distracted by things other than football. He may have had something relevant to say 25 years ago but predicting a problem (or noticing it after it has already started) and actually identifying the cause and resolving it are 2 different things.

Any time someone brings up the "wee laddies wi their Playstations" drivel you know they're completely uninformed, ignorant and can't be bothered putting the effort in to actually think about it.

[Smartie]

Obviously we could do with better players (an argument for somewhere else) but is it too much to ask to have International professional footballers who do not make mistakes as bad as the ones we made for the goals today?

Steve Clarke can organise a defence. He can take average players and make them play in a competent manner within a structure.

That was all over the place today. I agree that we need to do a bit of soul-searching into why our players aren't better but we had a Man United player on the bench. David Bates launching the ball over a midfield to a lone striker who wins nothing all day has nothing to do with playstations.

[Ozyhibby]

Obviously we could do with better players (an argument for somewhere else) but is it too much to ask to have International professional footballers who do not make mistakes as bad as the ones we made for the goals today?

Steve Clarke can organise a defence. He can take average players and make them play in a competent manner within a structure.

That was all over the place today. I agree that we need to do a bit of soul-searching into why our players aren't better but we had a Man United player on the bench. David Bates launching the ball over a midfield to a lone striker who wins nothing all day has nothing to do with playstations.

We have better players than Kazakhstan. It’s the SFA and the management team that’s the problem.
Ecks a dinosaur. James McFadden is more a mascot than a coach. It’s a complete joke.


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[Wilson]

Any time someone brings up the "wee laddies wi their Playstations" drivel you know they're completely uninformed, ignorant and can't be bothered putting the effort in to actually think about it.

Exactly. They've all got x boxes.

[we are hibs]

Yes we do, marshall, robertson, teirney, morrison, snodgrass, anya, mcarthur, griffiths, rhodes, mccormack are all good players

How many of these good players featured today?

[Smartie]

How many of these good players featured today?

Serious questions need to be asked about why they didn't.

[Stonewall]

Serious questions need to be asked about why they didn't.

Need to be but won’t.

The SFA are a potent mixture of ineptitude, arrogance, intransigence and corruption. Unfortunately that’s not even half of our problems.

[JohnMcM]

Aaaawww no!

Just starting to sober up.

That result was real,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wasn't it?

Awwwww sh???e!!

[weecounty hibby]

I am seriously depressed about that result. I have been to two world cup finals, 1990 and 1998 and a European championship finals 1996. My son is 15 next month and I'm not sure he will ever get to experience the fun, exhilaration and downright nonsense that goes with attending these things. We have slipped so far behind so many countries it is a disgrace

[Allant1981]

How many of these good players featured today?

Stalking my posts again I see!

[hibsbollah]

'We were looking quite lively until they scored'...
Alex McLeish.

Quote of the year.

[Scorrie]

'We were looking quite lively until they scored'...
Alex McLeish.

Quote of the year.

They scored after 6 mins. Jeezo that is pathetic from Eck

[Pretty Boy]

'We were looking quite lively until they scored'...
Alex McLeish.

Quote of the year.

I genuinely think there might be something not quite right with him.

I don't remember him talking the way he does now in the past. Everything is very slow and deliberate as if getting the words out is a struggle. He looks awful as well.

I suppose if anything was up it would have been picked up before he was appointed but it is the SFA we are talking about.

[Joe6-2]

'We were looking quite lively until they scored'...
Alex McLeish.

Quote of the year.

What an utter a-hole

[Scorrie]

Is it true that McGregor and McFadden had a bit of a set to or just internet rumours?

[cleanyman]

I'm quite glad they got beat

McLeish and McFadden

You've got to laugh

[hibsboy69]

I'm quite glad they got beat

McLeish and McFadden

You've got to laugh

And Peter ******g Grant ! :rolleyes::bitchy:

[weecounty hibby]

The names above are exactly why we have regressed as a football playing nation. Jobs for the boys wee cliques from the SFA committees to the coaches. Total joke. There is so much wrong with the set up and governance of football in this country. Everything is designed around two clubs to the detriment of everyone else including the national team

[Ozyhibby]

The names above are exactly why we have regressed as a football playing nation. Jobs for the boys wee cliques from the SFA committees to the coaches. Total joke. There is so much wrong with the set up and governance of football in this country. Everything is designed around two clubs to the detriment of everyone else including the national team

Exactly right. James McFadden has zero coaching experience but gets to coach the national team! He is just a highly paid mascot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stoneyburn hibs]

I'm quite glad they got beat

McLeish and McFadden

You've got to laugh

You're glad your country were defeated?

[bingo70]

Exactly right. James McFadden has zero coaching experience but gets to coach the national team! He is just a highly paid mascot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is that not quite common in international football?

Don’t think Klinsmann had much coaching experience when he got the Germany job, Giggs (and maybe Hughes?) first managerial job was at Wales, I’m sure there’s others too that I can’t think of just now.

I don’t mind players going straight into international coaching as ultimately I’m not sure how much coaching goes on, they don’t really have the players for long enough to do work on the training ground. Imo it’s more about getting someone that’s smart tactically and knows how to motivate the players rather than getting a good coach.

McLeish clearly isn’t the answer and only got the job as we didn’t have a chief executive at the time, or had only just come in. Unfortunately it’s pretty clear the SFA don’t have a clue what they’re doing, with no obvious replacement I fear the worst for the rest of our campaign. I’d love us to show a bit ambition and imagination but there’s absolutely no chance. We’ll probably get rid of McLeish and bring in Paul Lambert when he gets sacked from Ipswich.

[SquashedFrogg]

Serious questions need to be asked about why they didn't.

Seriously?
Robertson avoided playing, teirney avoided playing , morrison gone, snodgrass avoided playing, anya gone, mcarthur retired from international football, Griffiths not kicked a ball since leaving the casino, rhodes gone, mccormack injured.

For me we have nucleus of a fresh new team but McLeish has no idea. He brings a Man Utd midfielder on when game is done!

[SquashedFrogg]

Exactly right. James McFadden has zero coaching experience but gets to coach the national team! He is just a highly paid mascot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you blame McFadden for the result? Quite odd.

The players respect and admire him. I can guarantee he is not the issue.

I'd also add that he has huge coaching experience. Or do you think he hasn't been coached for 20+ years?

[Topographic Hibby]

A side issue that is related to all of this...

..what has the glorious new CEO of the SFA added in terms of value to the game in Scotland, since he started drawing his very substantial salary? Nothing tangible that I can see.

[GreenCastle]

The names above are exactly why we have regressed as a football playing nation. Jobs for the boys wee cliques from the SFA committees to the coaches. Total joke. There is so much wrong with the set up and governance of football in this country. Everything is designed around two clubs to the detriment of everyone else including the national team

100% agree

I also don’t actually think McLeish is well. Before the Wcotland job I saw him on various tv shows and even deliver a coaching conference and just didn’t seem right. Hopefully it’s nothing serious.

Also agree about McFadden - not his fault but surely we can do better?

[brog]

There was a thread about McLeish on here a few months back. IIRC I posted that he reviewed a match & said Tom Cairney was neat & tidy when he came on. In fact Tom Cairney had started the game. His comment was so excrutiatingly awful the panel pretended they hadn't heard it. It gives me no pleasure to say it but McLeish should be nowhere near the Scotland job. The accident that was waiting to happen has happened.

[tonyrougier123]

Scotland and the SFA need revolutionized.its same topic of debate everytime we get beat by a nation we deem lesser than us.they looked fitter,stronger,tactically aware and played us off the park at times.

I say it often but surely summer football would be worth trying.
We need to be performing better on the european stage,and summer football might help,we play crap football on crap pitches on freezing cold days most of the season.thats punishment on the body not helpful.

Fixture congestion quickly followed by mini pre seasons.
Its laughable as supporters we put up with the nonsense by the governing body.

We pay high prices to watch our teams,and generally the quality on show doesn't reflect the product on sale.

As supporters also we need to be doing more in the country,far too reserved in comparison to other nations.too embarrassed to a have a sing song at the games.ive been reading other threads about german fans,seen some awesome videos of schalke,ajax and zenit fans.seem we are losing certain aspects of supporting our clubs.tartan army are excluded from criticism ofcourse always been revered in the game.

Hopefully changes happen,and new ideas are pumped in to the game ,otherwise scotland will continue to spectate the game on grandest stages.

[vuefrom1875]

'We were looking quite lively until they scored'...
Alex McLeish.

Quote of the year.

Hun.

[vuefrom1875]

I'm quite glad they got beat

McLeish and McFadden

You've got to laugh

They'll get binned and another couple of weggies will fill in .

[vuefrom1875]

So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

SFA Weggie.

[vuefrom1875]

Any footballing initiative in this country doesn't stand a chance UNLESS it benefits both of the 'Ugly Sisters' - same applies if the initiative benefits ALL of Scottish Football !

Just to correct you.....it should be all things WEGGIE.

[poolman]

I've said it a million times - Andy Roxburgh predicted that there was a s***storm coming for our national team and he was pretty much correct in everything he said was wrong with our game...


Roxburgh is a tw%*

Anyone with half a brain knows our national team is up the Swanee without him putting his useless neb in

[poolman]

So you blame McFadden for the result? Quite odd.

The players respect and admire him. I can guarantee he is not the issue.

I'd also add that he has huge coaching experience. Or do you think he hasn't been coached for 20+ years?


There's a huge difference to BEING coached rather than coaching

[Mixu62]

Didn't watch it (thank heavens) but watching the highlights:

Goal 1 - a through ball over the top of the defence. Do SPL defenders not deal with that every week? Nobody closing down the man on the ball at the back, who has all the time in the world to pick out his pass. Nobody tracking the run of the forward or fast enough to get back once he did get through. Basic pressing, defensive awareness/positioning and athleticism all lacking.

Goal 2 - almost a carbon copy except the pass is on the ground. Lack of urgency, awareness and pressing from a throw-in.

Almost goal 3 - long range effort tipped over the bar. Guess what? No pressing!! Do these guys think that now they've been capped they're too good to put in a shift?

Actual goal 3 - a cross to the back post? Really? ******' much-maligned Falkirk defenders would have dealt with that!

Throughout it all, the body-language and running style of any players in blue looked awful. Were they wearing lead boots? They looked like they'd already played 90 minutes before the game while they looked fresh and energetic. And I bet the combined pay of the Kazahk team is about a tenth of what our lot are on, yet they showed more creativity and energy. We did have some decent passing moves, from the look of the highlights, mostly down the left but the final ball was awful. I know the general state of our national set up is bad, but it's better than that showing, surely?!

[Haymaker]

they looked fitter,stronger,tactically aware and played us off the park at times.

I say it often but surely summer football would be worth trying.
We need to be performing better on the european stage,and summer football might help

Two things: First, Summer football would require us to play Feb-Nov. That means cold, ***** pitches at the beginning and end of the season and pitch recovery during December and January. I'm no greenkeeper but I'm guessing that December and January are not the best months to repair pitches.

Second: How does playing summer football make us fitter, stronger, more tactically aware and stop Kazakhstan playing us off the park? And, of course, how will effect those players playing in England?

[tonyrougier123]

Two things: First, Summer football would require us to play Feb-Nov. That means cold, ***** pitches at the beginning and end of the season and pitch recovery during December and January. I'm no greenkeeper but I'm guessing that December and January are not the best months to repair pitches.

Second: How does playing summer football make us fitter, stronger, more tactically aware and stop Kazakhstan playing us off the park? And, of course, how will effect those players playing in England?

A few ideas off the top here;

A STREAMLINED SEASON:

Play eachother twice home and away.
Add more teams.
30_32 league games a season.
Summer nights midweek fixtures.
Example season running from late march til early october.
Another idea could be a winter cup for a footie fix in january.( I.E league cup)

Teams in europe more fluidity in fixture arrangements ,helping their cause and benifiting the co efficient.

Pitches imo would be in better condition,but like yourself im not a greenkeeper.could possibly be covered in the winter months.

It doesny obviously help to be fitter stronger and tactically better than kazaks.but it would be our own stamp on the game,and the way we decide to play and govern it.that wiuld surely breed confidence all round,and detach us from the game in england.
Also surely more money from tv deals as we would be on in the english league shut down.
That could enhance interest in the game.
I think its about thinking outside the box mate for better results from our game.

[Haymaker]

A few ideas off the top here;

A STREAMLINED SEASON:

Play eachother twice home and away.
Add more teams.
30_32 league games a season.
Summer nights midweek fixtures.
Example season running from late march til early october.
Another idea could be a winter cup for a footie fix in january.( I.E league cup)

Teams in europe more fluidity in fixture arrangements ,helping their cause and benifiting the co efficient.

Pitches imo would be in better condition,but like yourself im not a greenkeeper.could possibly be covered in the winter months.

It doesny obviously help to be fitter stronger and tactically better than kazaks.but it would be our own stamp on the game,and the way we decide to play and govern it.that wiuld surely breed confidence all round,and detach us from the game in england.
Also surely more money from tv deals as we would be on in the english league shut down.
That could enhance interest in the game.
I think its about thinking outside the box mate for better results from our game.

IIRC we need to play 38 games to qualify for European competition. I may be wrong there but it's come up when discussing a 16/18 team league before.

Late March to early October would require a lot less time to rest between games which would increase the chance of injuries to players trying to squeeze a 10 month season into 6/7 month season.

A winter cup? When would the players have an off season?

Summer is when most people take their families on holiday and like to enjoy other activities like Golf.

I'm not a greenkeeper but the UV lights required to grow grass in winter are ridiculously expensive to run.

Teams in Europe would be playing in November and February so if we condense the league to late March to early October we'd still be playing in the colder months with poorer conditions.

It still wouldn't make us stronger, fitter or more tactically aware so...

There's a tournament every summer (and more being planned involving club football) I doubt we'll get a better TV deal for the maybe 12 weeks that England has no football.

I don't want to be a dick here and I certainly don't want you to think I'm having a go mate, I totally agree that Scottish football needs changes to it however I cant see how summer football is that change.

[RoYO!]

Sack the board.

[BILLYHIBS]

Is this our most embarrassing defeat ever?

Serious question

[JimBHibees]

Is this our most embarrassing defeat ever?

Serious question

Has to be :agree: more embarrassing was the performance. Totally outplayed.

[BILLYHIBS]

Has to be :agree: more embarrassing was the performance. Totally outplayed.

Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go :confused:

[cleanyman]

You're glad your country were defeated?

It's not my country

[JimBHibees]

Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go :confused:

Peru were actually good then though we just totally underestimated them. A draw with Iran wasn't the best. :greengrin

This was always going to be a tricky game given the travel the time difference and reluctance of players and bigger teams letting their players play at a crucial part of the season however allowing for all that it was clearly appalling.

[Green Cabbage 7]

Why do we always seem to try and fit players in together, I mean Armstrong McGregor Mcginn, those 3 might be good players, but Mcginn for example is not playing his natural game, but to play a holding role for the other 2, he’s an engine box to box midfielder, mctominay played the holding role for Man U against PSG and did a good job, sorry management have to take the blame fitting players in the blend isn’t right!

[theonlywayisup]

Is this our most embarrassing defeat ever?

Serious question

Take your pick from............

Wales 4-0 Scotland (18 Feb, 2004)
Scotland 0-3 Hungary (18 Aug, 2004)
Norway 4-0 Scotland (12 Aug, 2009)
Wales 3-0 Scotland (14 Nov, 2009)
Czech Republic 1-0 Scotland (8 Oct, 2010)
USA 5-1 Scotland (26 May, 2012)
Israel 2-1 Scotland (11 Oct, 2018)
Kazakhstan 3-0 Scotland (21 Mar, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47657749

I would also have added being gubbed 5-0 by Portugal as embarrassing too.

[BILLYHIBS]

Peru were actually good then though we just totally underestimated them. A draw with Iran wasn't the best. :greengrin

This was always going to be a tricky game given the travel the time difference and reluctance of players and bigger teams letting their players play at a crucial part of the season however allowing for all that it was clearly appalling.

Peru were South American Champions in 1977 and hey Teofilo Cubillas was nothing but a washed up old man

The image of Roughie frozen to the spot as the ball sails over his right shoulder at the freekick is forever burnt into my memory banks :agree:

[Smartie]

Take your pick from............

Wales 4-0 Scotland (18 Feb, 2004)
Scotland 0-3 Hungary (18 Aug, 2004)
Norway 4-0 Scotland (12 Aug, 2009)
Wales 3-0 Scotland (14 Nov, 2009)
Czech Republic 1-0 Scotland (8 Oct, 2010)
USA 5-1 Scotland (26 May, 2012)
Israel 2-1 Scotland (11 Oct, 2018)
Kazakhstan 3-0 Scotland (21 Mar, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47657749

I would also have added being gubbed 5-0 by Portugal as embarrassing too.

The Portugal one was the most chastening one I can remember, mainly because we were still expecting to be half-decent.

Taking into consideration the quality of the opposition (even if we made them actually look quite good) yesterday was the worst performance I've ever witnessed.

[Pretty Boy]

Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go :confused:

Any competent football set up would have had them watched and viewed extensive video analysis.

However we are talking about the SFA so let's assume we didn't watch them. Even allowing for that we are talking about a team who scored 6 goals and failed to win a game in their last qualifying campaign. They have recently lost to Armenia, Montenegro and Georgia and drawn with Andorra (a team who have won 6 games in their entire international football history). A Sunday league manager should have been able to put a team on the park to scrape the required result.

[Famous Fiver]

As I pointed out on another thread Philippines are 123 in the world and they have just called up Hibs Under 20 youngster Gallantes.

If a country such as Philippines can compete on a FIFA level roughly comparable to Scotland's conquerors yesterday with a Premier League youngster in it, what does that say about those in charge of running our game and managing our national team?

Words fail me.

[hibsbollah]

They scored after 6 mins. Jeezo that is pathetic from Eck


Peru were South American Champions in 1977 and hey Teofilo Cubillas was nothing but a washed up old man

The image of Roughie frozen to the spot as the ball sails over his right shoulder at the freekick is forever burnt into my memory banks :agree:

Ally didn't even bother scouting Peru. He proudly announced he didn't even know what formation they played. It was a kind of weird British empire superiority based on total ignorance.

[theonlywayisup]

As I pointed out on another thread Philippines are 123 in the world and they have just called up Hibs Under 20 youngster Gallantes.

If a country such as Philippines can compete on a FIFA level roughly comparable to Scotland's conquerors yesterday with a Premier League youngster in it, what does that say about those in charge of running our game and managing our national team?

Words fail me.

We wouldn't play him because he's too small / too weak for Scotland.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I constantly see/hear about kids who are dismissed at an early age because they are too small. I've seen boys teams built around the strong central defender or the athletic midfielder or the tall centre forward. Other boys, not of that build at the age of 10-14 are dismissed when they start playing on full sized pitches.

So tell me why do we have virtually no top class defenders / athletic midfielders / tall strikers who come into that category.

I believe in this country we turn boys away far too early. When I was 13, I stood in the pouring rain as the only substitute for 90 minutes watching my school team draw 0-0 against the big City team and never got onto the pitch. My son, who was 10 times the player I was, suffered a similar fate. How many other kids up and down the country are not picked because they are too small or deemed not good enough at an early age. How many of these could have been good footballers?

I firmly believe that we need to get back to kids playing with their mates, whether good or bad, in their local area helping to develop a strong team culture. Instead, at an early age, we get boys being cherrypicked by clubs or being elevated to stardom by adoring parents as they move from boys club to boys club - Hutchie, Edinburgh City, Salvesen, Tynecastle, Spartans etc etc and if they're lucky the pro-youth teams.

If it was me, boys up to the age of sixteen would only play for the team that's in the local area. But that'll never happen.

[Stonewall]

We wouldn't play him because he's too small / too weak for Scotland.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I constantly see/hear about kids who are dismissed at an early age because they are too small. I've seen boys teams built around the strong central defender or the athletic midfielder or the tall centre forward. Other boys, not of that build at the age of 10-14 are dismissed when they start playing on full sized pitches.

So tell me why do we have virtually no top class defenders / athletic midfielders / tall strikers who come into that category.

I believe in this country we turn boys away far too early. When I was 13, I stood in the pouring rain as the only substitute for 90 minutes watching my school team draw 0-0 against the big City team and never got onto the pitch. My son, who was 10 times the player I was, suffered a similar fate. How many other kids up and down the country are not picked because they are too small or deemed not good enough at an early age. How many of these could have been good footballers?

I firmly believe that we need to get back to kids playing with their mates, whether good or bad, in their local area helping to develop a strong team culture. Instead, at an early age, we get boys being cherrypicked by clubs or being elevated to stardom by adoring parents as they move from boys club to boys club - Hutchie, Edinburgh City, Salvesen, Tynecastle, Spartans etc etc and if they're lucky the pro-youth teams.

If it was me, boys up to the age of sixteen would only play for the team that's in the local area. But that'll never happen.

After 10 years helping to run a boy’s club team your thoughts mirror my own. We became thoroughly disillusioned and it was with a profound sense of relief that we packed it up at the end of last season.

[WeeRussell]

Just to correct you.....it should be all things WEGGIE.

Excuse the ignorance but what is a Weggie? You've used it 3 posts on the trot, and I initially thought you were meaning Weegie, and then Wedgie. Now I've nae idea :confused:

[Diclonius]

I'm not buying the whole "ach oor players ur *****" patter either. This suqad is considerably better than the losers we've had in recent years. Granted, they weren't playing but we have two excellent left-backs, one of which possibly is the best in the world right now. McGinn, McKenna, Armstrong, Forrest are all better than what we've had previously. The problem is a **** setup and a **** manager.

Also, if we're REALLY going to go down this route - THREE players in the Kazakhstan squad played outside their league. I'm guessing that means the Kazakh league is **** hot? If we're going for the "Scottish players arnae whit they used tae be eh wi their Playstations and Xboxes" then the Kazakh league must be a model of ****ing professionalism.

[ancient hibee]

I'm not buying the whole "ach oor players ur *****" patter either. This suqad is considerably better than the losers we've had in recent years. Granted, they weren't playing but we have two excellent left-backs, one of which possibly is the best in the world right now. McGinn, McKenna, Armstrong, Forrest are all better than what we've had previously. The problem is a **** setup and a **** manager.

Also, if we're REALLY going to go down this route - THREE players in the Kazakhstan squad played outside their league. I'm guessing that means the Kazakh league is **** hot? If we're going for the "Scottish players arnae whit they used tae be eh wi their Playstations and Xboxes" then the Kazakh league must be a model of ****ing professionalism.

Think you’re kidding yourself.Robertson is undoubtedly good enough to play at this level.Tierney looks to me that his injury is much worse that is being disclosed.Against us he couldn’t get to the bye line and his acceleration has gone.McKenna is grossly over rated particularly in the press.Forrest has played a lot of internationals and performed up to standard in about 5.Armstrong will never be good enough to be other than a bit part international mid fielder.McGinn will not make it internationally unless he learns to stop giving the ball away.I don’t know how far you are going back in saying that they’re better than previous players.If it’s the last few years you”re right.If it’s longer ago they wouldn’t have got the sniff of a cap.

[G B Young]

Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go :confused:

Given how much time a Scotland manager often has to spend twiddling his thumbs between games I'd be astonished if Scotland didn't have them watched. What else do the managerial team spend their time doing for months on end?

Whether or not they did their homework, you have to wonder after nearly quarter of a century of failure why such humiliations still get folk all hot and bothered. It seems to me that Scotland have not been anywhere near good enough for many years no matter who the manager is, so the key factor in yesterday's defeat was probably that we're simply pretty p**h.

As for McLeish, I have wondered about his health since he returned to the Scotland fold. There may be nothing in it but his manner appears to have changed. He seems slower of mind and thought somehow. If you look at his managerial record up until the last few years it was pretty strong and certainly as Hibs boss he always came across as intelligent, passionate and decisive. He certainly doesn't cut the commanding figure he did last time round in the job.

[BILLYHIBS]

Given how much time a Scotland manager often has to spend twiddling his thumbs between games I'd be astonished if Scotland didn't have them watched. What else do the managerial team spend their time doing for months on end?

Whether or not they did their homework, you have to wonder after nearly quarter of a century of failure why such humiliations still get folk all hot and bothered. It seems to me that Scotland have not been anywhere near good enough for many years no matter who the manager is, so the key factor in yesterday's defeat was probably that we're simply pretty p**h.

As for McLeish, I have wondered about his health since he returned to the Scotland fold. There may be nothing in it but his manner appears to have changed. He seems slower of mind and thought somehow. If you look at his managerial record up until the last few years it was pretty strong and certainly as Hibs boss he always came across as intelligent, passionate and decisive. He certainly doesn't cut the commanding figure he did last time round in the job.

Agree

AM does not look great!

My youngest would call him a dinosaur

[Is It On....]

Take your pick from............

Wales 4-0 Scotland (18 Feb, 2004)
Scotland 0-3 Hungary (18 Aug, 2004)
Norway 4-0 Scotland (12 Aug, 2009)
Wales 3-0 Scotland (14 Nov, 2009)
Czech Republic 1-0 Scotland (8 Oct, 2010)
USA 5-1 Scotland (26 May, 2012)
Israel 2-1 Scotland (11 Oct, 2018)
Kazakhstan 3-0 Scotland (21 Mar, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47657749

I would also have added being gubbed 5-0 by Portugal as embarrassing too.

Czech Republic was the famous 6-4-0 formation 🙄

[BILLYHIBS]

Czech Republic was the famous 6-4-0 formation 🙄

Steven Fletcher refused to play for Potter again

[theonlywayisup]

Ally didn't even bother scouting Peru. He proudly announced he didn't even know what formation they played. It was a kind of weird British empire superiority based on total ignorance.

I can't recall if it was the 78 team, but did we not have a period when we picked something like 7 club captains in the team. And they were captains of Liverpool, Leeds etc that were at the top level in England and Scotland. Yesterday's team had no leaders on the pitch.

[Here’s Lucy!]

Steven Fletcher refused to play for Potter again

Probably got his word in first as he knew he wouldn't be picked again anyhow.

[Here’s Lucy!]

I can't recall if it was the 78 team, but did we not have a period when we picked something like 7 club captains in the team. And they were captains of Liverpool, Leeds etc that were at the top level in England and Scotland. Yesterday's team had no leaders on the pitch.

Buchan
Souness
Jardine
Rioch
Masson?

Are five I can think of from the top of my head.

[BILLYHIBS]

Offishull Worst Ever Result

Khazakhstan 3 v 0 Scotland

Confirmed on BBC Reporting Scotland tonight as our worst ever result

Worse than Scotland 0 v 7 Uraguay 1954 WC

Worse than Scotland 0 v 1 Belarus 2005

Source: Gracenote

[cabbageandribs1875]

i read on the TAMB that according to some ratings system(ELO) it was our worst result since getting beat from wales 0-2 in 1906


shame on all those that run our game, shame on them

[calumhibee1]

i read on the TAMB that according to some ratings system(ELO) it was our worst result since getting beat from wales 0-2 in 1906


shame on all those that run our game, shame on them

Aye, something to do with the two teams rankings and the margin of defeat. Apparently Israel under McLeish was also in the top 20 worst results.

[The 90+2]

Aye, something to do with the two teams rankings and the margin of defeat. Apparently Israel under McLeish was also in the top 20 worst results.

Scotland not sacking McLeish because he got a gimmea to the playoffs and two games from the holy grail is the equivalent of Potter not being from hearts for similar. We all know both will end up disasterous too.

Petrie is getting the top job in June I’m led to believe. Let’s hope his first action is punt the Judas (who I actually feel Shan for as I don’t think he seems well, although picking up a good wage for **** all)

[cabbageandribs1875]

Aye, something to do with the two teams rankings and the margin of defeat. Apparently Israel under McLeish was also in the top 20 worst results.


he won't walk, and the hampden cartel can't afford to sack him, those at the top will think hammering san marino will calm us all down, i'm never been one for advocating fans boycotting games and i just couldn't see the TA doing it, but if they did it would be wakey wakey time at the top, the quicker the dust settles after this sundays game the more relieved the Blazers will be.

[calumhibee1]

he won't walk, and the hampden cartel can't afford to sack him, those at the top will think hammering san marino will calm us all down, i'm never been one for advocating fans boycotting games and i just couldn't see the TA doing it, but if they did it would be wakey wakey time at the top, the quicker the dust settles after this sundays game the more relieved the Blazers will be.

Yup. A win against San Marino and all will be well again. Even a 1-0 win would probably suffice for the SFA. They’ll probably view this campaign as a bit of a free hit since were already in the Nations League situation.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Over 24 hours since and he's not been emptied?
Has there even been a statement?

[hibsbollah]

Buchan
Souness
Jardine
Rioch
Masson?

Are five I can think of from the top of my head.

Sounds right. John Wark at Ipswich maybe too?

[Besties Debut]

At the end of the day, it's our national team and it's in our hearts in our souls they will be our breath when we grow old they are our lovers they're our best friends they're in our souls...so stop taking the piss and get behind the useless numpties

[Keith_M]

So, is McLeish an improvement on Strachan?

[Smartie]

So, is McLeish an improvement on Strachan?

No, absolutely not.

Strachan took a while to figure some stuff out but his last half dozen games were more than acceptable and worthy of him being allowed to continue.

[Keith_M]

No, absolutely not.

Strachan took a while to figure some stuff out but his last half dozen games were more than acceptable and worthy of him being allowed to continue.


Agreed, I was a bit disappointed when he left, as it seemed highly unlikely we were going to get anybody better.

[stoneyburn hibs]

No, absolutely not.

Strachan took a while to figure some stuff out but his last half dozen games were more than acceptable and worthy of him being allowed to continue.

Definitely, he steadied the ship somewhat. Obviously wasn't the cuddly bear for those that can decide his fate.

[weecounty hibby]

Sounds right. John Wark at Ipswich maybe too?
Gemmill?

[Zazu62]

So, is McLeish an improvement on Strachan?

Huddies. Both of them.

[Diclonius]

Scotland not sacking McLeish because he got a gimmea to the playoffs and two games from the holy grail is the equivalent of Potter not being from hearts for similar. We all know both will end up disasterous too.

Petrie is getting the top job in June I’m led to believe. Let’s hope his first action is punt the Judas (who I actually feel Shan for as I don’t think he seems well, although picking up a good wage for **** all)

If Petrie finally gets the job does that mean he leaves us?

[Lancs Harp]

I took flack today for Scotlands performance in the gym in Blackpool. Sporting my Hibs shorts I had a couple pleasant enquiries regarding last nights performance and results....... and Im English.

[surreyhibbie]

Offishull Worst Ever Result

Khazakhstan 3 v 0 Scotland

Confirmed on BBC Reporting Scotland tonight as our worst ever result

Worse than Scotland 0 v 7 Uraguay 1954 WC

Worse than Scotland 0 v 1 Belarus 2005

Source: Gracenote

Costa rica? That was a bummer...

[Since452]

If Petrie finally gets the job does that mean he leaves us?

Sorry to say but Rod would just be another dinosaur. The SFA needs an overhaul from top to bottom. Infact it probably needs abolished and something started from scratch.

[theonlywayisup]

Whilst Scotland struggle, our nearest and bitter rivals are well on the way to become one of the best teams in the World.

We'll never be able to compete with the best in the World, but surely we should be beating teams like Kazakhstan.

[theonlywayisup]

Sorry to say but Rod would just be another dinosaur. The SFA needs an overhaul from top to bottom. Infact it probably needs abolished and something started from scratch.

#abolishtheSFA

[Pretty Boy]

Whilst Scotland struggle, our nearest and bitter rivals are well on the way to become one of the best teams in the World.

We'll never be able to compete with the best in the World, but surely we should be beating teams like Kazakhstan.

England brought an 18 year old off the bench in a 5-0 win last night whilst we gave a Sheffield Wednesday player who once had a half pint of Tennents his debut at 27 years old.

That nicely sums up the difference in mentality between both managers.

[hibsbollah]

England brought an 18 year old off the bench in a 5-0 win last night whilst we gave a Sheffield Wednesday player who once had a half pint of Tennents his debut at 27 years old.

That nicely sums up the difference in mentality between both managers.

:agree:
You kind of know that if Scotland had a talent like Hudson Odoi coming through, he wouldn't have got on last night. Maybe in three years time, after the confidence had been kicked out of him by successive managers taking him as unused sub to Baku or Pyongyang, and a couple of ligament injuries picked up playing on crap artificial pitches in the spfl.

[JimBHibees]

No, absolutely not.

Strachan took a while to figure some stuff out but his last half dozen games were more than acceptable and worthy of him being allowed to continue.

Totally agree thought we were much better last campaign. No point getting shot if not bringing better in. MacLeish hadn't worked in years should have been nowhere near it.

[B.H.F.C]

Been said a million times but we just need a complete overhaul in terms of coaching, structure and ambition.

It’ll never happen though and we’ll be having the same conversation in ten years.

I actually think there is some decent young players available to us who we should be moulding in to a team. Robertson, Tierney, McTominay, McGregor, McGinn and Fraser should all be playing together for the next 10 years and that is the basis of a good team. Obviously we are short in other areas but that is a good starting point. There is no plan to what we are trying to do under the current management and players don’t even want to turn up really.

We should have really been building towards Euro 2020 which is a once in a generation (possibly lifetime) opportunity with games actually being played in our own country. Not us, just over a year to go and we have players retiring from international football, refusing to play on plastic pitches etc.

[Ringothedog]

I had to laugh this morning, they were interviewing an England fan on 5 live about their win last night and how much they have improved in the last 3 years. The England fan then says that a 5-0 win back then would only have been possible against minnows like San Marino , Andorra, Luxembourg and Scotland. And it’s so true and before anyone says” a but we drew 2-2”, the point is that it highlights how far we have fallen and to most of the top nations we are just like an annoying fly which just needs swatted

[Since452]

I had to laugh this morning, they were interviewing an England fan on 5 live about their win last night and how much they have improved in the last 3 years. The England fan then says that a 5-0 win back then would only have been possible against minnows like San Marino , Andorra, Luxembourg and Scotland. And it’s so true and before anyone says” a but we drew 2-2”, the point is that it highlights how far we have fallen and to most of the top nations we are just like an annoying fly which just needs swatted

Thats the problem. Football has moved on. Counties have evolved and we've stood still (occasionally copied England). This affects not only the national team but also filters through the domestic game too. Like an addict the first form of making things better is honesty. We're a million miles from competing with the likes of England, Belgium or Denmark. I get the impression the media and fans still think we are. Our level is Lithuania and Moldova. Sooner we as fans and the governing body/media accept that the better and we can try and make changes to address it. The SFA needs a huge overhaul. Stuck in the dark ages as the whole Hampden fiasco showed.

[Diclonius]

Thats the problem. Football has moved on. Counties have evolved and we've stood still (occasionally copied England). This affects not only the national team but also filters through the domestic game too. Like an addict the first form of making things better is honesty. We're a million miles from competing with the likes of England, Belgium or Denmark. I get the impression the media and fans still think we are. Our level is Lithuania and Moldova. Sooner we as fans and the governing body/media accept that the better and we can try and make changes to address it. The SFA needs a huge overhaul. Stuck in the dark ages as the whole Hampden fiasco showed.

On that note - what has actually happened to "we understand, you don't like it, we're going to redevelop it"? That got swept under the carpet pretty quickly, no ****ing surprise.

[Pretty Boy]

On that note - what has actually happened to "we understand, you don't like it, we're going to redevelop it"? That got swept under the carpet pretty quickly, no ****ing surprise.

I'm sure it was recently reported there was an issue with both Queens Park and one of the financial backers.

If only anyone at all could have foreseen that happening....

[theonlywayisup]

I'm surprised that no paper has come out hyper critical of the SFA about how they have developed football over the last twenty to thirty years.

I recall a TV programme when we missed out on qualifying for the World Cup in 1994, with Gordon Strachan telling us his views. I would love to hear that interview again to see if anything has changed. Remember that was our first failure to qualify since 1970.

Since then we've had Ernie's Think Tank and McLeish's review. With each review we get worse.

We all laughed at England when their top guy said that their aim is to win the World Cup in either 2018 or 2022. Well a Semi Final is a good start for them and they now seem to have a conveyor belt of good young players.

What about Scotland? We are an embarrassing joke and what are the SFA saying about it. Well.......

[angus hibby]

I’m a volunteer coach with a local kids team and have coached them since they were 5 years old. They’re now 13/14 and we’re amongst the top 5 teams in our age group in our area. Opponents and referees often comment on how good a side we are to watch, we try to play out from back as much as we can and we have some great wee players.

In the 8 years I’ve had them, senior clubs have looked at only four of our team. One club was Aberdeen and they wanted the 2 kids they asked about to be at Aberdeen for 4pm on a weekday for trial/training (Aberdeen is over an hours drive from us so how they expected kids to be there for 4pm on a school day?!).

The other 2 kids looked at were by Dundee and the 2 kids concerned were good players, the strong and athletic type. Neither was taken on after their training stint. One was told by the youth coach at Dundee to go and some press ups to build up some muscle. He was 11 at the time, tall and slim.

We have one kid in particular whose technique is absolutely outstanding. He can do anything with the ball, his first touch is unbelievable for someone at his age, and he’s also a tenacious wee player, protects the ball well when under pressure. Not one senior club has enquired about him. The only reason I can think for this is his size. He’s small for his age but honestly, I’ve yet to come across a kid in our league who has better technique. And despite his size, he is deceptively strong so I’ve no idea why senior clubs aren’t all over him.

Then again, having heard some stories about coaches at academy level at senior clubs, maybe it’s not a bad thing.

The pricing of coaching courses is horrendous too. I’ve achieved C Licence and that was over £300 IIRC. B Licence would be my next step and that’s about £1000 I think!

[theonlywayisup]

I’m a volunteer coach with a local kids team and have coached them since they were 5 years old. They’re now 13/14 and we’re amongst the top 5 teams in our age group in our area. Opponents and referees often comment on how good a side we are to watch, we try to play out from back as much as we can and we have some great wee players.

In the 8 years I’ve had them, senior clubs have looked at only four of our team. One club was Aberdeen and they wanted the 2 kids they asked about to be at Aberdeen for 4pm on a weekday for trial/training (Aberdeen is over an hours drive from us so how they expected kids to be there for 4pm on a school day?!).

The other 2 kids looked at were by Dundee and the 2 kids concerned were good players, the strong and athletic type. Neither was taken on after their training stint. One was told by the youth coach at Dundee to go and some press ups to build up some muscle. He was 11 at the time, tall and slim.

We have one kid in particular whose technique is absolutely outstanding. He can do anything with the ball, his first touch is unbelievable for someone at his age, and he’s also a tenacious wee player, protects the ball well when under pressure. Not one senior club has enquired about him. The only reason I can think for this is his size. He’s small for his age but honestly, I’ve yet to come across a kid in our league who has better technique. And despite his size, he is deceptively strong so I’ve no idea why senior clubs aren’t all over him.

Then again, having heard some stories about coaches at academy level at senior clubs, maybe it’s not a bad thing.

The pricing of coaching courses is horrendous too. I’ve achieved C Licence and that was over £300 IIRC. B Licence would be my next step and that’s about £1000 I think!

Backs up my comment that a good big player will get more of a chance than a very good wee yin.

Yet how come Scotland are sorely lacking big strong skilful players. Is it because we focus more on strength rather than skill? Eventually, our big strong laddies are found out when they come up against skilful players.

[DetroitHibs]

What we need first and foremost is a committed manager and more so, committed player. Robertson, McTominay, Snodgrass and Mccarthy basically didn’t fancy the trip and Eck should have tore them a new one, rather than justify it. If these welts don’t want to play in these games, they shouldn’t ever be picked at all. Niggling injuries and such should be played through, just like they are at club level. Until we have commitment from all parties, we are always going to be that diddy side that never qualifies.

[Allant1981]

What we need first and foremost is a committed manager and more so, committed player. Robertson, McTominay, Snodgrass and Mccarthy basically didn’t fancy the trip and Eck should have tore them a new one, rather than justify it. If these welts don’t want to play in these games, they shouldn’t ever be picked at all. Niggling injuries and such should be played through, just like they are at club level. Until we have commitment from all parties, we are always going to be that diddy side that never qualifies.

mctominay was there but on the bench, dont think snodgrass was picked and mcarthur retired from internationals about a year ago

[heretoday]

England brought an 18 year old off the bench in a 5-0 win last night whilst we gave a Sheffield Wednesday player who once had a half pint of Tennents his debut at 27 years old.

That nicely sums up the difference in mentality between both managers.
Good post. It's a laugh isn't it?

[Stonewall]

I’m a volunteer coach with a local kids team and have coached them since they were 5 years old. They’re now 13/14 and we’re amongst the top 5 teams in our age group in our area. Opponents and referees often comment on how good a side we are to watch, we try to play out from back as much as we can and we have some great wee players.

In the 8 years I’ve had them, senior clubs have looked at only four of our team. One club was Aberdeen and they wanted the 2 kids they asked about to be at Aberdeen for 4pm on a weekday for trial/training (Aberdeen is over an hours drive from us so how they expected kids to be there for 4pm on a school day?!).

The other 2 kids looked at were by Dundee and the 2 kids concerned were good players, the strong and athletic type. Neither was taken on after their training stint. One was told by the youth coach at Dundee to go and some press ups to build up some muscle. He was 11 at the time, tall and slim.

We have one kid in particular whose technique is absolutely outstanding. He can do anything with the ball, his first touch is unbelievable for someone at his age, and he’s also a tenacious wee player, protects the ball well when under pressure. Not one senior club has enquired about him. The only reason I can think for this is his size. He’s small for his age but honestly, I’ve yet to come across a kid in our league who has better technique. And despite his size, he is deceptively strong so I’ve no idea why senior clubs aren’t all over him.

Then again, having heard some stories about coaches at academy level at senior clubs, maybe it’s not a bad thing.

The pricing of coaching courses is horrendous too. I’ve achieved C Licence and that was over £300 IIRC. B Licence would be my next step and that’s about £1000 I think!

Doesn’t surprise me in the least. There is a tendency to pick the big, strong boys and try to make them into footballers. Although to be fair the stand out talent in my son’s group has got a full time contract with Dundee Utd and he wasn’t one of the bigger boys. He has a good chance of making it I think.

One of the others ended up at Livi and got binned at 15 as was too small. He’s now 18 and just under 6 foot. In general the others who spent time in the pro youth system were the big athletes who were never going to make it and were actually just making up the numbers as the clubs churned through players looking for a diamond.

[Besties Debut]

England brought an 18 year old off the bench in a 5-0 win last night whilst we gave a Sheffield Wednesday player who once had a half pint of Tennents his debut at 27 years old.

That nicely sums up the difference in mentality between both managers. Englands 18 year old was Hudson Odoi. One of the most valuable and highly regarded young players in world football. We can only dream of having a player like that. . When it comes to resources the English are on a different planet to Scotland. We have to cast the net far and wide because our pool of available players is so small. Sure we should have guys like Snodgrass, and McCarthur in the squad but comparing us to England is like comparing Yeovil Town to Man City. It has nothing to do with the mentality of the managers.

[Sir David Gray]

Englands 18 year old was Hudson Odoi. One of the most valuable and highly regarded young players in world football. We can only dream of having a player like that. . When it comes to resources the English are on a different planet to Scotland. We have to cast the net far and wide because our pool of available players is so small. Sure we should have guys like Snodgrass, and McCarthur in the squad but comparing us to England is like comparing Yeovil Town to Man City. It has nothing to do with the mentality of the managers.

James McArthur retired from international football several months ago.

[Besties Debut]

James McArthur retired from international football several months ago. I know and in an ideal world guys like him Snodgrass, Hutton, Brown, Fletcher, and McGregor would still make themselves available but because they don't they make a small group of players even smaller and things just get even more difficult.

[Allant1981]

I know and in an ideal world guys like him Snodgrass, Hutton, Brown, Fletcher, and McGregor would still make themselves available but because they don't they make a small group of players even smaller and things just get even more difficult.

Snodgrass was available for selection, fletcher is also playing every week, they haven't retired from internationals

[Diclonius]

This whole "comparing us to England thing" is false equivalence. They're a country eleven times the size of us and with far greater resources than we have. Certainly, for the last 50 or so years they've also underachieved and you can argue that they've now got their **** together re their setup - something we've failed to do. I expect them to win a major tournament in the next ten years.

Instead we should be comparing Scotland to teams like Wales, Ireland, N. Ireland, Croatia, Denmark, Slovakia, Slovenia and Iceland. But we won't because no one ever criticises the SFA other than the fans who will keep paying the extortionate ticket prices regardless.

[BILLYHIBS]

Woke up this morning and thought Nooooooooooo!!

We go again

Surely we can beat the worst team in Europe?

[cleanyman]

Woke up this morning and thought Nooooooooooo!!

We go again

Surely we can beat the worst team in Europe?

In the world

I want San Marino to just score a goal tonight. That would be humiliation in itself.

[Scottie]

In the world

I want San Marino to just score a goal tonight. That would be humiliation in itself.
:no way: Wow just wow.

[cleanyman]

:no way: Wow just wow.

Can't cheer Scotland on

All for the greater good

[Sir David Gray]

I know and in an ideal world guys like him Snodgrass, Hutton, Brown, Fletcher, and McGregor would still make themselves available but because they don't they make a small group of players even smaller and things just get even more difficult.

Darren Fletcher and Robert Snodgrass haven't retired from international football, they just weren't selected.

However Fletcher is now 35 and has hardly played this season for Stoke so it's no surprise that he isn't playing for Scotland. He hasn't played for Scotland in nearly 18 months.

[Onion]

I'm surprised that no paper has come out hyper critical of the SFA about how they have developed football over the last twenty to thirty years.

I recall a TV programme when we missed out on qualifying for the World Cup in 1994, with Gordon Strachan telling us his views. I would love to hear that interview again to see if anything has changed. Remember that was our first failure to qualify since 1970.

Since then we've had Ernie's Think Tank and McLeish's review. With each review we get worse.

We all laughed at England when their top guy said that their aim is to win the World Cup in either 2018 or 2022. Well a Semi Final is a good start for them and they now seem to have a conveyor belt of good young players.

What about Scotland? We are an embarrassing joke and what are the SFA saying about it. Well.......

Surprised ? It's friggin astonishing and perplexing. If something similar was happening in England, the popular press and commentators would be at the FA's throats until they either had ideas and concrete plans to fix it or they'd be hounded out. No question about it. What has happened to our national team and game as a whole in Scotland is a national disgrace. The SFA are only mobilised when forced to do so, never on their own volition. They never have ideas to improve the game. Just look at the latest Hampden fiasco.

Why the media are giving these blazers an easy ride is anyone guess. Perhaps they're only interested in the well-being of the OF, and any proper development of players would just threaten that ? Maybe they get well "taken care of" by the SFA on the understanding that they leave them alone ? Who knows.

[Besties Debut]

Snodgrass was available for selection, fletcher is also playing every week, they haven't retired from internationals Snodgrass changes his mind more than i change my y fronts

[Besties Debut]

Darren Fletcher and Robert Snodgrass haven't retired from international football, they just weren't selected.

However Fletcher is now 35 and has hardly played this season for Stoke so it's no surprise that he isn't playing for Scotland. He hasn't played for Scotland in nearly 18 months. I didn't realize Darren Fletcher was still playing. I was meaning Stephen. As for Snodgrass he changes his availability on a game by game basis

[Pretty Boy]

Englands 18 year old was Hudson Odoi. One of the most valuable and highly regarded young players in world football. We can only dream of having a player like that. . When it comes to resources the English are on a different planet to Scotland. We have to cast the net far and wide because our pool of available players is so small. Sure we should have guys like Snodgrass, and McCarthur in the squad but comparing us to England is like comparing Yeovil Town to Man City. It has nothing to do with the mentality of the managers.

Talking of James McCarthur.

He, along with James Mccarthy, was playing 1st team football at 16 year old. Yet neither player got a look in at international level at any age group. McCarthur finally got a couple of under 21 caps whilst Mccarthy was snapped up by Ireland (Ironically he was then called out as a 'traitor' rather than anyone asking why the SFA missed a talent right under their noses).

I accept that Scotland have to search a bit further for talent but there's a criminal lack of being able to see what is right in front of us as well. Would many other countries have ignored 2 players who were integral parts of a successful team literally days after their 15th birthday? It's not just international level either. Hibs had Marc McNulty as a youth; now we are facing losing him after a loan spell because he's moved out of our price range.

[Besties Debut]

Talking of James McCarthur.

He, along with James Mccarthy, was playing 1st team football at 16 year old. Yet neither player got a look in at international level at any age group. McCarthur finally got a couple of under 21 caps whilst Mccarthy was snapped up by Ireland (Ironically he was then called out as a 'traitor' rather than anyone asking why the SFA missed a talent right under their noses).

I accept that Scotland have to search a bit further for talent but there's a criminal lack of being able to see what is right in front of us as well. Would many other countries have ignored 2 players who were integral parts of a successful team literally days after their 15th birthday? It's not just international level either. Hibs had Marc McNulty as a youth; now we are facing losing him after a loan spell because he's moved out of our price range. If you want to talk about our failure to nurture young talent then have a look at the team who got to the final of the U16 world cup in 1989 and see how many of them made it as pro players.

[hfc rd]

Surely the ones that have to be the main brunt of the blame for the mess we have been in for the last number of years are the SFA? They are in charge of the Scottish game.

Can’t see anything getting better than what it currently is just now with our game run by a bunch of headless chickens.

[Sir David Gray]

If you want to talk about our failure to nurture young talent then have a look at the team who got to the final of the U16 world cup in 1989 and see how many of them made it as pro players.

Saudi Arabia were the winners of that tournament so that's maybe not the best example.

[The 90+2]

Saudi Arabia were the winners of that tournament so that's maybe not the best example.

The Under 17 Euros that lost to Spain then?

[Smartie]

Talking of James McCarthur.

He, along with James Mccarthy, was playing 1st team football at 16 year old. Yet neither player got a look in at international level at any age group. McCarthur finally got a couple of under 21 caps whilst Mccarthy was snapped up by Ireland (Ironically he was then called out as a 'traitor' rather than anyone asking why the SFA missed a talent right under their noses).

I accept that Scotland have to search a bit further for talent but there's a criminal lack of being able to see what is right in front of us as well. Would many other countries have ignored 2 players who were integral parts of a successful team literally days after their 15th birthday? It's not just international level either. Hibs had Marc McNulty as a youth; now we are facing losing him after a loan spell because he's moved out of our price range.

McArthur was always a funny one.

It seemed to take ages for him to get the recognition he deserved. Everyone knew he was a good player but he never got the hype McCarthy got in the media.

Failing to acknowledge talent right under our noses is definitely a problem.

The pair of them would be in the Scotland cap hall of fame if they'd been snapped up by Celtic and Rangers as kids.

[theonlywayisup]

This whole "comparing us to England thing" is false equivalence. They're a country eleven times the size of us and with far greater resources than we have. Certainly, for the last 50 or so years they've also underachieved and you can argue that they've now got their **** together re their setup - something we've failed to do. I expect them to win a major tournament in the next ten years.

Instead we should be comparing Scotland to teams like Wales, Ireland, N. Ireland, Croatia, Denmark, Slovakia, Slovenia and Iceland. But we won't because no one ever criticises the SFA other than the fans who will keep paying the extortionate ticket prices regardless.

Sorry, I'm not buying the population excuse anymore.

Belgium are number one in world rankings, with a population a fifth of England.

Croatia are at number four with a population of just over four million.

Kazakhstan have a population of over 18 million; they have at least four times as many people than Croatia.

Nah, where is our roadmap for being in the top ten teams in Europe.

[Paisley Hibby]

Sorry, I'm not buying the population excuse anymore.

Belgium are number one in world rankings, with a population a fifth of England.

Croatia are at number four with a population of just over four million.

Kazakhstan have a population of over 18 million; they have at least four times as many people than Croatia.

Nah, where is our roadmap for being in the top ten teams in Europe.
All of those countries are independent. Seems this is yet another reason why we should be too 😎

[The 90+2]

Why does Petrie have to be involved with Hibs if president? Does McRae hold a similar position or did Ogilvie?

[Diclonius]

Sorry, I'm not buying the population excuse anymore.

Belgium are number one in world rankings, with a population a fifth of England.

Croatia are at number four with a population of just over four million.

Kazakhstan have a population of over 18 million; they have at least four times as many people than Croatia.

Nah, where is our roadmap for being in the top ten teams in Europe.

I'm not saying population isn't the be-all and end-all for success, but it is indicative. What I'm saying is a country with Scotland's population and level of interest in football/potential resources SHOULD at the very least be regularly qualifying for tournaments, and making a quarter-final or two at least once every decade.

The fact that we don't even qualify is absolutely criminal and anyone who isn't part of the old boys club/is paid by them to blame the manager knows it.

[Since90+2]

Population does have a degree of influence on how good a nation is. Most of the traditionally strong nations have large populations compared to Scotland. Brazil, Argentina , England, Spain, France , Italy and Germany all dwarf Scotlands population.

Even countries like Portugal , Belgium and Holland are twice is big as Scotland.

There are 1 or 2 examples such as Croatia and Uruguay but if you were to look at all the winners of the world cup and European championship the vast majority will be countries with much larger populations than ours.

[theonlywayisup]

Population does have a degree of influence on how good a nation is. Most of the traditionally strong nations have large populations compared to Scotland. Brazil, Argentina , England, Spain, France , Italy and Germany all dwarf Scotlands population.

Even countries like Portugal , Belgium and Holland are twice is big as Scotland.

There are 1 or 2 examples such as Croatia and Uruguay but if you were to look at all the winners of the world cup and European championship the vast majority will be countries with much larger populations than ours.

It obviously has a degree of influnece, but I'm sick of it being given as an excuse.

Sport is Scotland is going backwards at an alarming rate. You mention any of Scotland's world class exports and all have done it by themselves through hard work and individual skill - Murray, Muir, Montgomery, Hoy, Grainger etc. All worked extremely hard and they had to do it themselves.

However, in team sport, we are pretty poor at almost every sport. It's a national disgrace.

[Allant1981]

It obviously has a degree of influnece, but I'm sick of it being given as an excuse.

Sport is Scotland is going backwards at an alarming rate. You mention any of Scotland's world class exports and all have done it by themselves through hard work and individual skill - Murray, Muir, Montgomery, Hoy, Grainger etc. All worked extremely hard and they had to do it themselves.

However, in team sport, we are pretty poor at almost every sport. It's a national disgrace.

What team sports are we pretty poor at?

[The 90+2]

What team sports are we pretty poor at?

Beachball

[Since90+2]

It obviously has a degree of influnece, but I'm sick of it being given as an excuse.

Sport is Scotland is going backwards at an alarming rate. You mention any of Scotland's world class exports and all have done it by themselves through hard work and individual skill - Murray, Muir, Montgomery, Hoy, Grainger etc. All worked extremely hard and they had to do it themselves.

However, in team sport, we are pretty poor at almost every sport. It's a national disgrace.

As far as a I know the only other team sport that's played at any significant level of participation in Scotland is rugby and we are pretty decent at that.

[Bangkok Hibby]

What team sports are we pretty poor at?

Not too bad at curling. Improving at cricket.
Twice elephant polo world champions.
Winners of the football homeless world cup in 2011.

[hfc rd]

As far as a I know the only other team sport that's played at any significant level of participation in Scotland is rugby and we are pretty decent at that.


We are certainly not bad at rugby. Not exactly world beaters like New Zealand but half decent and made some very good progress over the last few years.

Just a pity the football team hasn’t followed along and still remains behind in the dark ages.

[Allant1981]

We are certainly not bad at rugby. Not exactly world beaters like New Zealand but half decent and made some very good progress over the last few years.

Just a pity the football team hasn’t followed along and still remains behind in the dark ages.

Pretty sure we are in the top 10 in the world for rugby, as you say, it's a pity our football team are so far behind

[hfc rd]

Pretty sure we are in the top 10 in the world for rugby, as you say, it's a pity our football team are so far behind



We are currently ranked 7th in the rugby union world rankings. Not too shabby at all and certainly not “pretty poor”.

[Since90+2]

We are currently ranked 7th in the rugby union world rankings. Not too shabby at all and certainly not “pretty poor”.

I suppose the question could be asked why is a country like Wales , which has 2 million less people than we do, significantly better at both sports?

What is it they do that we don't.

[hfc rd]

I suppose the question could be asked why is a country like Wales , which has 2 million less people than we do, significantly better at both sports?

What is it they do that we don't.



Rugby is Wales’ national sport. It’s like a religion over there, bit like what football is to Brazilians. They take it way more serious than we do.

In terms of the football, I haven’t a clue. They have made massive strides in that sport, certainly way more than we have over the last number of years. Watching them playing against Slovakia just now and some of their football is a joy to watch. Surely something the SFA should be looking at how are nations such as Wales, Iceland etc doing so well and we ain’t. What are they doing that we are not but could implement here? Something to make us at least competitive.

[Sir David Gray]

Pretty sure we are in the top 10 in the world for rugby, as you say, it's a pity our football team are so far behind


We are currently ranked 7th in the rugby union world rankings. Not too shabby at all and certainly not “pretty poor”.

We've just had a pretty mediocre Six Nations campaign (second half comeback at Twickenham aside). We are 7th in the rugby world rankings just now but there aren't that many countries that play rugby to a serious level in comparison with football. I'd say the only countries that we are ahead of that is anything to speak of are France, Fiji and Argentina.

We're doing alright at rugby but being 7th in the world at rugby is probably the equivalent of being about top 20 odd in the world at football.

Looking at the teams behind Scotland in the rugby rankings, if we ever fell out of the top 10 then it would be pretty poor.


I suppose the question could be asked why is a country like Wales , which has 2 million less people than we do, significantly better at both sports?

What is it they do that we don't.

Rugby is like a national sport in Wales, it's taken far more seriously there than it is in Scotland. I've no idea about football but I'd say having Gareth Bale, who plays for arguably the biggest club side in the world, in their squad certainly helps them.

[Allant1981]

We've just had a pretty mediocre Six Nations campaign (second half comeback at Twickenham aside). We are 7th in the rugby world rankings just now but there aren't that many countries that play rugby to a serious level in comparison with football. I'd say the only countries that we are ahead of that is anything to speak of are France, Fiji and Argentina.

We're doing alright at rugby but being 7th in the world at rugby is probably the equivalent of being about top 20 odd in the world at football.

Looking at the teams behind Scotland in the rugby rankings, if we ever fell out of the top 10 then it would be pretty poor.



Rugby is like a national sport in Wales, it's taken far more seriously there than it is in Scotland. I've no idea about football but I'd say having Gareth Bale, who plays for arguably the biggest club side in the world, in their squad certainly helps them.

So how high up the rankings would they have to be to get a bit of praise?

[The 90+2]

So how high up the rankings would they have to be to get a bit of praise?

Top 5? Win something now and again? Reach a Semi or Final? Right now Scotland are under performing at Rubgy and have went backwards under Townsend.

[Since90+2]

We've just had a pretty mediocre Six Nations campaign (second half comeback at Twickenham aside). We are 7th in the rugby world rankings just now but there aren't that many countries that play rugby to a serious level in comparison with football. I'd say the only countries that we are ahead of that is anything to speak of are France, Fiji and Argentina.

We're doing alright at rugby but being 7th in the world at rugby is probably the equivalent of being about top 20 odd in the world at football.

Looking at the teams behind Scotland in the rugby rankings, if we ever fell out of the top 10 then it would be pretty poor.



Rugby is like a national sport in Wales, it's taken far more seriously there than it is in Scotland. I've no idea about football but I'd say having Gareth Bale, who plays for arguably the biggest club side in the world, in their squad certainly helps them.

Obviously Bale makes a huge difference but even without him I'd say Wales are a good abit ahead of us.

[The 90+2]

Obviously Bale makes a huge difference but even without him I'd say Wales are a good abit ahead of us.

They are that close to England though that a lot of their players are going across the border at a very early age now which is a massive advantage as the best players are going to your Liverpool or Man City academy and not your huns and Celtic.

[Sir David Gray]

They are that close to England though that a lot of their players are going across the border at a very early age now which is a massive advantage as the best players are going to your Liverpool or Man City academy and not your huns and Celtic.

Wales are as close to England as we are, we both share a land border.

It's probably the lack of a proper professional set up in Wales that forces them into England rather than anything else.

They only have Cardiff and Swansea as real choices to play for and both of them obviously play in the English leagues.

[The 90+2]

Wales are as close to England as we are, we both share a land border.

It's probably the lack of a proper professional set up in Wales that forces them into England rather than anything else.

They only have Cardiff and Swansea as real choices to play for and both of them obviously play in the English leagues.

Central Wales is a lot closer to West/Central England though, meaning the English sides are in the market for Welsh players and very rarely Scottish (Fletcher Stewart and Gray exceptions)

[Since452]

Kazakhstan 0 Russia 4

[Sir David Gray]

So how high up the rankings would they have to be to get a bit of praise?

We're doing better at rugby than we are at football, that much is undeniable but if you look at the current rugby rankings, how many countries are there where you could say we are doing really well to be ahead of?

I'd say we would need to be about 4th or 5th in the rankings before we can really be saying that we are impressing at rugby.

[theonlywayisup]

Top 5? Win something now and again? Reach a Semi or Final? Right now Scotland are under performing at Rubgy and have went backwards under Townsend.

Scotland Rugby Team typically finish in last or second last position in the Six Nations table.

We'll always be in the top 12 teams in the world as there are very few countries that take rugby seriously.

Agree that we've a recent history of under achieving. Contrast that with Ireland who hold the record for the most Wooden Spoons, but have been doing well recently both at club and international level.

[The 90+2]

Scotland Rugby Team typically finish in last or second last position in the Six Nations table.

We'll always be in the top 12 teams in the world as there are very few countries that take rugby seriously.

Agree that we've a recent history of under achieving. Contrast that with Ireland who hold the record for the most Wooden Spoons, but have been doing well recently both at club and international level.

Really can’t argue with that. The problem we have that the other nations don’t in terms of Rugby is that it’s still public schoolboy mentality over here while in Ireland and Wales its more of a macho sport.

Rugby is great and I only wish I realised that back growing up instead of thinking only posh boys played it and would have been ripped to shreds growing up on a council estate if I played Rugby.

[superfurryhibby]

Scotland Rugby Team typically finish in last or second last position in the Six Nations table.

We'll always be in the top 12 teams in the world as there are very few countries that take rugby seriously.

Agree that we've a recent history of under achieving. Contrast that with Ireland who hold the record for the most Wooden Spoons, but have been doing well recently both at club and international level.

We reached the semi final of the last world cup and have beaten all the world’s top team since then, aside from New Zealand. Not really underachieving is it?

Rugby here is very much a second sport, played by people from all walks of life, but not in numbers comparable to most, if not all of the world elite teams. We ‘ve been alright at club and country level these past few years.

Very healthy performance compared to our football teams.

[cabbageandribs1875]

We reached the semi final of the last world cup and have beaten all the world’s top team since then, aside from New Zealand. Not really underachieving is it?

Rugby here is very much a second sport, played by people from all walks of life, but not in numbers comparable to most, if not all of the world elite teams. We ‘ve been alright at club and country level these past few years.

Very healthy performance compared to our football teams.



unfortunately we didn't, although we were indeed ROBBED of a place in the SF by an incompetent referee that bolted off the pitch at the end because he knew full well he ****** up near the end by giving a decision against Scotland iirc, i'd wager we would have beaten argentina in the SF as well but we would have got hammered in the Final by the rugby worlds harlem globetrotters :(

[TrinityHibs]

We're doing better at rugby than we are at football, that much is undeniable but if you look at the current rugby rankings, how many countries are there where you could say we are doing really well to be ahead of?

I'd say we would need to be about 4th or 5th in the rankings before we can really be saying that we are impressing at rugby.

So 2 places. That’s not impossible with this group of players.

[Is It On....]

I'm not saying population isn't the be-all and end-all for success, but it is indicative. What I'm saying is a country with Scotland's population and level of interest in football/potential resources SHOULD at the very least be regularly qualifying for tournaments, and making a quarter-final or two at least once every decade.

The fact that we don't even qualify is absolutely criminal and anyone who isn't part of the old boys club/is paid by them to blame the manager knows it.

I got a hard time on here for laughing at the "Malky has given me a detailed dossier on the players" comment from McLeish when he was re-appointed. Sadly I have been proven right. Gordon Smith's recent "Hibs should be looking at someone that understands the Scottish game" when we were replacing Lennon tells you everything you need to know about their mindset. From the James Farry / Ernie Walker 1980s investigation into the Scottish game that was never published this has been like watching a slow motion crash for decades. The thing is, I don't know if we can ever sink low enough for things to change. 🙁

[Malthibby]

Peter Grant, 'It's been a great week apart from the result,"
Says it all really. Absolute welt.

[Sir David Gray]

So 2 places. That’s not impossible with this group of players.

It's probably the equivalent of the football team climbing about 10 to 15 places in the football rankings.

[Is It On....]

Peter Grant, 'It's been a great week apart from the result,"
Says it all really. Absolute welt.

Did he really say that?

[theonlywayisup]

Another dismal display

[Famous Fiver]

Going to back the Cypriots in the next match at Hampden.

Easy money.

[goosefat]

Peter Grant, 'It's been a great week apart from the result,"
Says it all really. Absolute welt.


Did he really say that?

It's almost impossible to say when there's a single quotation at the start and a double quotation at the end, along with a random comma.

[Lago]

A slow steady decline & I am not sure we will recover from it.

[Iain G]

Stuart McCall is now available.....

[theonlywayisup]

I'm surprised that no paper has come out hyper critical of the SFA about how they have developed football over the last twenty to thirty years.

Below a very good read from Ewan Murray in the Guardian. When will these clowns (SFA) do something in the best interests of scottish football for a change.

:saltireflag

Long before Sunday lunchtime the noise and conspiracy attached to a meeting of Celtic and Rangers will have reduced Scotland’s humiliation in Kazakhstan to an afterthought, which is precisely the way those presiding over the national team want it.


Any self-respecting governing body would have jettisoned Alex McLeish after the 3-0 defeat in Astana. Instead, the manager was left to reflect on a “bright start” – Scotland were 2-0 down after 10 minutes – as his paymasters began their latest game of hide and seek. By the time Scotland’s travelling circus reached San Marino, McLeish was unwilling to “dwell on history”.


Scotland managed to be even more abject for long spells against the side at the foot of the world rankings. It would be an act of gross negligence if the Scottish Football Association allowed its A-team to sleepwalk through another qualifying group, rather than try to rectify what is possibly a retrievable situation.


That McLeish’s second tenure will not end satisfactorily has been clear for some time. There will be no great revival. Scotland are bereft of organisation, inspiration and strategy. Excuse after excuse fails to mask glaring underperformance. The shortage of belief is a pounding noise the Scottish FA should not ignore. The Tartan Army, hardly a rebellious lot, were in mutiny mode during the San Marino slog on Sunday.


Contrary to occasional opinion, McLeish has been afforded a far easier ride than could have been forthcoming. Just ask Berti Vogts, George Burley or Craig Levein (one was castigated for his tie, another for donning a certain type of eyewear).


McLeish is a symptom of grim Scottish football governance. The same applies to his coaching staff: Peter Grant was heard barking relentless orders to players presumably incapable of independent thought against the might of San Marino.


The solution is within 20 miles of the Scottish FA’s Hampden Park bunker. It should move heaven and earth to coax Steve Clarke from Kilmarnock, even at the culmination of this domestic season and thereby before Scotland take on Cyprus in June. Clarke’s man‑management, back-to-basics approach, refusal to stand on ceremony with players or media and experience at loftier levels mean his candidature is a no-brainer.


The trouble is, we have no reason to have faith in the Scottish FA’s willingness or ability to act appropriately. This is an organisation where, among other classics, the performance director, Malky Mackay, booms instructions at under-19 and under-21 international games despite not being on the coaching staff. The Scottish FA approached Walter Smith to ascertain whether he would be willing to discuss the manager’s role pre-McLeish, only to delay the follow-up so long the 71-year-old removed himself from the equation so as to enjoy a family holiday.


Its board is dominated by the squabbling of two factions: the longtime association types and those peddling the wishes of clubs via the Scottish Professional Football League. This is a league which retains a dull four-times-a-season format to safeguard one fixture – between Rangers and Celtic – allows plastic pitches in the top flight, commands awful television deals and thinks, as per Saturday, a “domestic” cup final between Ross County and Connah’s Quay Nomads represents innovation.


Perhaps club representatives will logically pursue their own missions as part of the SFA board. The biggest in the country are the worst at operating in Machiavellian style from the shadows. But when they do, the position of the Scottish national team – including the coaching staff – will not prosper. If the SFA continues to dance to a club tune, where politics overshadow a greater good, nothing will improve meaningfully.


Scotland suffers from a domestic obsession, where the league itself fuels a duopoly. The same does not occur in Northern Ireland, for example. There, as in Norway, the Republic of Ireland, Iceland, Belgium and Wales the biggest clubs do not tower above the national side. Scotland’s Old Firm narrative is all‑consuming and, arguably, harmful.


Received wisdom points fingers at Alan McRae and Rod Petrie, time‑honoured SFA board members, for this McLeish fiasco. That duo were, indeed, needlessly hasty when pushing McLeish forward after talks with Michael O’Neill collapsed. The admission of McRae, the president, that McLeish was a friend of 30 years, whose testimonial committee he had chaired, was a monumental public relations blunder.


Yet McRae and Petrie should not be at the forefront of policy; they have become soft targets. Others are handsomely rewarded to lead; instead, they vanish down rabbit holes. In Ian Maxwell and Neil Doncaster, Scotland has administrators paid six‑figure sums to run the game at the SFA and SPFL respectively. Doncaster sits on the SFA board. The Englishman probably cannot believe his luck; when the hapless SPL was reconfigured in 2013, he kept his job. Maxwell was plucked from relegation-bound Partick Thistle. The sense prevailed then, as now, that Maxwell was catapulted forward to safeguard the interests of clubs. It is easy to make the case that his tenure has been disastrous to date.


Scotland’s national team remain without a sponsor. Clubs give a good impression of regarding the international side as at best an afterthought and at worst an inconvenience. All the while, Scotland slide further down their own national consciousness to the point of irrelevance. If the SFA persists with McLeish it will be embarrassed by tens of thousands of empty seats when Cyprus come to town on 8 June. And rightly so: if those termed “custodians” of the game do not demonstrate a care for its wellbeing, why should anybody subsidise their folly?