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brog
09-11-2016, 06:57 PM
Managed to outdo the big team by losing 4-0 in Slovakia today. Our continuing policy of selecting OF development players & unknown Anglos continues to pay dividends!

DaveF
09-11-2016, 07:07 PM
Got to be honest and say that without googling names, the only starters I recognise were Henderson, Souttar and Brophy.

On the subs bench I only knew of Quitongo and Forrest.

No idea where the rest play their football.

https://twitter.com/ScottishFA?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp% 7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

brog
09-11-2016, 08:16 PM
Got to be honest and say that without googling names, the only starters I recognise were Henderson, Souttar and Brophy.

On the subs bench I only knew of Quitongo and Forrest.

No idea where the rest play their football.

https://twitter.com/ScottishFA?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp% 7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

TBF you can see he's trying to blood some new players but the system's distorted from the start. Schools football is dominated by the uglies, notably Celtc. These youngsters then get a pro contact & largely disappear. However as they're already known to the youth coaches they keep getting selected to represent Scotland at all underage levels even though they've never had a sniff of 1st team football. I think that's just about OK up to U-19 but U-21 should IMO be more meaningful. IIRC none of our golden generation, Broony, KT, Gaz, Deek & Whitty were ever selected at schoolboy level though I think Lewis was! Someone with more knowledge of current youth football than I have can hopefully add more.

JDHibs
10-11-2016, 08:06 AM
Gemmill is doing what should have been done years ago. What should have been done with our national team aswell.

Blood the youngsters.

Hes binned all the older players who are too old for the next tournament and is bringing in youngsters to get them up to speed. To try and gel a team together. Id expect 3 losses was expected when he thought about doing this.

Other national teams have done this in the past and its paid dividends. Germany, Holland and France all come to mind. All brought youngsters through early. We have a knack of not doing this and relying on the same older players who continually fail us. Id rather watch young hungry players fight for their place and try their bollocks off, than some older pros like Greer get a chance.

I commend Gemmill for doing this and hopefully we see the benefits in a few years.

Was also reading yesterday that only 3 top leagues in Europe have a worse record in terms of foreigners in their respective leagues. Thats another reason why we struggle as their arent enough youngsters getting game time. But that isnt Gemmills fault, he can only pick what he feels is his best squad. Hamilton seem to be the only ones who want to continually bring through youngsters and give them their chance.

brog
10-11-2016, 12:09 PM
Gemmill is doing what should have been done years ago. What should have been done with our national team aswell.

Blood the youngsters.

Hes binned all the older players who are too old for the next tournament and is bringing in youngsters to get them up to speed. To try and gel a team together. Id expect 3 losses was expected when he thought about doing this.

Other national teams have done this in the past and its paid dividends. Germany, Holland and France all come to mind. All brought youngsters through early. We have a knack of not doing this and relying on the same older players who continually fail us. Id rather watch young hungry players fight for their place and try their bollocks off, than some older pros like Greer get a chance.

I commend Gemmill for doing this and hopefully we see the benefits in a few years.

Was also reading yesterday that only 3 top leagues in Europe have a worse record in terms of foreigners in their respective leagues. Thats another reason why we struggle as their arent enough youngsters getting game time. But that isnt Gemmills fault, he can only pick what he feels is his best squad. Hamilton seem to be the only ones who want to continually bring through youngsters and give them their chance.

Good post though I would argue Iceland are the current role model for us to follow. I heve no problem with the thinking behind the way forward, my main problem is with how players get selected in the first place. The Victory Shield is the stepping stone to U-17, U-19 & U-21 football & it's dominated by the OF, though Yams have been in favour in recent years, possibly through the HW connection!! This year was better but still 50% representation & the media as usual only concentrated on 2 players, both OF. As I mentioned earlier not one of our 6 golden generation players was selected for the Victory shield but they now have well over 100 caps amongst them. Those 6 couldn't be ignored for underage selection as they all played for the 1st team as teenagers. Now we're picking Anglos who have never been near a 1st team & desperately hoping they'll come good plus the obligatory Sevco player though I suspect Ryan Hardie has a lower league career stretching in front of him. Still, we have James Forrest as a shining example of a player coming through the system. :wink:
We're doomed I tell you!

A Hi-Bee
11-11-2016, 10:16 PM
The whole system stinks from schoolboy to so-called Scotland team has done for more years than I care to remember and it ain't gonna change anytime soon, so we need to keep complaining and challenging what is going on, start at the top and get rid of them all.
A purge is what we need, a real fitba revolution, starting wi the blazers at the top.

theonlywayisup
11-11-2016, 11:22 PM
The whole system stinks from schoolboy to so-called Scotland team has done for more years than I care to remember and it ain't gonna change anytime soon, so we need to keep complaining and challenging what is going on, start at the top and get rid of them all.
A purge is what we need, a real fitba revolution, starting wi the blazers at the top.

We need a major change. If England Wales Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland qualifying for Euro 2016 is not enough to make a change surely getting beat by a crap England team will be the last straw.

northstandhibby
12-11-2016, 12:33 AM
Gemmill is doing what should have been done years ago. What should have been done with our national team aswell.

Blood the youngsters.

Hes binned all the older players who are too old for the next tournament and is bringing in youngsters to get them up to speed. To try and gel a team together. Id expect 3 losses was expected when he thought about doing this.

Other national teams have done this in the past and its paid dividends. Germany, Holland and France all come to mind. All brought youngsters through early. We have a knack of not doing this and relying on the same older players who continually fail us. Id rather watch young hungry players fight for their place and try their bollocks off, than some older pros like Greer get a chance.

I commend Gemmill for doing this and hopefully we see the benefits in a few years.

Was also reading yesterday that only 3 top leagues in Europe have a worse record in terms of foreigners in their respective leagues. Thats another reason why we struggle as their arent enough youngsters getting game time. But that isnt Gemmills fault, he can only pick what he feels is his best squad. Hamilton seem to be the only ones who want to continually bring through youngsters and give them their chance.

They are all world class international football teams.

Scotland will never be in the same established grouping as these countries. Sure we might get the odd rare unexpected result but to compare us against them countries is nonsense.

We would do far better to accept the fact we are a small nation with a limited pool of talent. Only then can we begin to improve.

GreenCastle
12-11-2016, 12:40 AM
They are all world class international football teams.

Scotland will never be in the same established grouping as these countries. Sure we might get the odd rare unexpected result but to compare us against them countries is nonsense.

We would do far better to accept the fact we are a small nation with a limited pool of talent. Only then can we begin to improve.

Size of nation doesn't matter..

Uraguay and Iceland to name 2 countries...

New Zealand in rugby.

Easy excuse to make..

Andy Murray..world number 1

It's possible if you get the right people in charge and correct coaches in the system.

northstandhibby
12-11-2016, 12:48 AM
Size of nation doesn't matter..

Uraguay and Iceland to name 2 countries...

New Zealand in rugby.

Easy excuse to make..

Andy Murray..world number 1

It's possible if you get the right people in charge and correct coaches in the system.

It's ridiculous to try to put us on a par with Germany Holland or France on the international footballing stage. It is whats wrong with Scotland. We should accept we are not at the same level and never will be.

Never ever ever ever will Scotland be consistently competing with these countries for international honours. Its ridiculous to think we can.

When we do have a crop of players good enough it will be a one-off fantastic achievement.

GreenCastle
12-11-2016, 01:11 AM
It's ridiculous to try to put us on a par with Germany Holland or France on the international footballing stage. It is whats wrong with Scotland. We should accept we are not at the same level and never will be.

Never ever ever ever will Scotland be consistently competing with these countries for international honours. Its ridiculous to think we can.

When we do have a crop of players good enough it will be a one-off fantastic achievement.

Holland didn't even qualify for the last Euros.

I'm not saying we are anywhere near Germany and France etc we are miles away from that level.

But the small nation line you used is flawed in my opinion - I gave examples of counties with small populations being successful.

We shouldnt be aiming for a one off achievement -Scotland needs long term development and as a result will then produce a sustainable good team and not the average players we keep having to watch.

mjhibby
12-11-2016, 08:48 AM
It's ridiculous to try to put us on a par with Germany Holland or France on the international footballing stage. It is whats wrong with Scotland. We should accept we are not at the same level and never will be.

Never ever ever ever will Scotland be consistently competing with these countries for international honours. Its ridiculous to think we can.

When we do have a crop of players good enough it will be a one-off fantastic achievement.

But surely we can expect better than were getting. If iceland,the two irelands and Wales can qualify it's not too much to at least strive to be on a par with them. Admittedly Wales have a very good team but to accept we will be crap and infinitum is surely not the right way to go.

.

northstandhibby
12-11-2016, 09:45 AM
But surely we can expect better than were getting. If iceland,the two irelands and Wales can qualify it's not too much to at least strive to be on a par with them. Admittedly Wales have a very good team but to accept we will be crap and infinitum is surely not the right way to go.

.

I agree with you that there is certainly scope for improvement. I'm merely opining the expectation levels of a previous poster of us consistently competing with Germany France Holland were just unbelievably unrealistic.

It would be far more realistic as you rightly state to get to a stage where we are consistently expecting to compete against the likes of Iceland, Wales, ROI, NI, Slovakia Slovenia Norway etcetera.

That is where we should be aiming to firstly be able to compete at a far lower level. In order to do that the expectation levels must drop and to build from scratch with a long term manager and long term planning at grass roots.

mjhibby
12-11-2016, 10:22 AM
I agree with you that there is certainly scope for improvement. I'm merely opining the expectation levels of a previous poster of us consistently competing with Germany France Holland were just unbelievably unrealistic.

It would be far more realistic as you rightly state to get to a stage where we are consistently expecting to compete against the likes of Iceland, Wales, ROI, NI, Slovakia Slovenia Norway etcetera.

That is where we should be aiming to firstly be able to compete at a far lower level. In order to do that the expectation levels must drop and to build from scratch with a long term manager and long term planning at grass roots.

Indeed have a plan how we are going to improve it. It's got so bad that even us hibs fans just wanted sjm to either not play last night or get minimal time to try to reduce the possibility of injury. I've no idea who should construct the plan but if a clever guy like mclair gives up then that shows the task ahead for whoever takes it on. If we don't improve soon though thousands of fans will simply forget about scotland and concentrate on their own team if they haven't already.

northstandhibby
12-11-2016, 10:41 AM
Indeed have a plan how we are going to improve it. It's got so bad that even us hibs fans just wanted sjm to either not play last night or get minimal time to try to reduce the possibility of injury. I've no idea who should construct the plan but if a clever guy like mclair gives up then that shows the task ahead for whoever takes it on. If we don't improve soon though thousands of fans will simply forget about scotland and concentrate on their own team if they haven't already.

That's a critical point. They need to give that job to one very experienced modern probably foreign manager or ex manager who knows the continental approach of retaining ball possession and passing the way to goal to teach our coaches and youth the finer points of the game.

Football people like Guardiola or Morinho would be ideal. However the SFA would have to give whoever it was free reign and that would present a major problem and is probably why the likes of brian mcClair walked because of the committees and SFA structure preventing a free go at it.

ancient hibee
12-11-2016, 12:30 PM
That's a critical point. They need to give that job to one very experienced modern probably foreign manager or ex manager who knows the continental approach of retaining ball possession and passing the way to goal to teach our coaches and youth the finer points of the game.

Football people like Guardiola or Morinho would be ideal. However the SFA would have to give whoever it was free reign and that would present a major problem and is probably why the likes of brian mcClair walked because of the committees and SFA structure preventing a free go at it.
McClair had full backing from the SFA,it was the clubs who refused to cooperate.

northstandhibby
12-11-2016, 12:53 PM
McClair had full backing from the SFA,it was the clubs who refused to cooperate.

I had no idea.

Scottish Football is full of obstacles on pathways to success. Just goes to show the structures are not in place to hand the right person like a Guardiola, Mourinho or even a Brian McClair who had a good career at a high level the free reign required to teach the finer points of football.

What about our own Murdo MacCleod who won the German Cup and Supercup with Borussia Dortmond and of course cup success with ourselves. He knows the scottish game and the potential hurdles and could negotiate them better than most.

A proven continental track record and a cracking player in his day.

Mon the Cabbage