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matty_f
05-11-2016, 09:15 PM
Apparently another fairly clear penalty not given for us this week for a foul on Holt - what are the thoughts from those that were at the game?

I thought Holt should have been given a penalty last week in the first half, and we should definitely have had another the week before at Dunfermline.

givescotlandfreedom
05-11-2016, 09:17 PM
I wasn't there but presume it was this one? https://twitter.com/billydoyle07/status/794926950569611264

matty_f
05-11-2016, 09:19 PM
I wasn't there but presume it was this one? https://twitter.com/billydoyle07/status/794926950569611264

Looks a fairly easy decision to me. Penalty all day long.

Sir David Gray
05-11-2016, 09:22 PM
My view of it wasn't great but it definitely looked like one.

The refereeing standards are absolutely abysmal in this country.

Topographic Hibby
05-11-2016, 09:23 PM
After his "penalty" in the Brondby game, the refs have Holts card marked, I fear. Unless the challenge is like that Rochdale player, he's getting nowt.

Still a penalty, though......

JimBHibees
05-11-2016, 09:24 PM
Wouldn't have given that to be fair. Holt could have stayed on his feet, not clear enough for a pen IMO.

Mr White
05-11-2016, 09:24 PM
Looked a certain penalty from behind the goals.

Jonnyboy
05-11-2016, 09:31 PM
Stone waller IMO. He was shaping to shoot and the defender used two hands in the back to push him over

Carheenlea
05-11-2016, 09:35 PM
I was a few yards further left right in line with it, and a clearer penalty you'll never see.

Kojock
05-11-2016, 09:39 PM
Stone waller IMO. He was shaping to shoot and the defender used two hands in the back to push him over

Yip stonewaller I was right inline with Holt and he was definitely shoved to the ground.

NORTHERNHIBBY
05-11-2016, 09:55 PM
What makes that look a stick-on is why would have gone over in that position?

NthCarolinaHibs
05-11-2016, 10:06 PM
100% from where we were standing and two blatant hand balls that were no given..umpteen offsides in the first half that were given,that just plain werny..shambles..

Spike Mandela
05-11-2016, 11:20 PM
Just looking at the footage above it just looks like two big guys coming together and both falling over. Doesn't look like a pen to me.:cb

Ringothedog
05-11-2016, 11:40 PM
Wouldn't have given that to be fair. Holt could have stayed on his feet, not clear enough for a pen IMO.

Okay then, what constitutes a penalty ?

Andy74
05-11-2016, 11:47 PM
Wasn't there but didn't look a penalty at all from that footage.

Northernhibee
06-11-2016, 12:07 AM
Would have been raging if it was given against us. Not a penalty.

Jack
06-11-2016, 12:30 AM
Penalty.

In these days when players "deserve to go down" piece of crap a good honest to goodness deliberate bundle over deserves an honest to goodness penalty.

Between claims like this and a couple of sendings off that never were we need to be strong in the face of errrrr things evening themselves out over the season or .... sheer incompetence, or .... cheating.

stevie-bee
06-11-2016, 12:31 AM
Am I the only person who thinks holt goes down to easy for a big guy

buktadays
06-11-2016, 12:39 AM
Must say from that footage it doesn't look like a dead cert penalty at all...


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Pete
06-11-2016, 03:42 AM
The highlights show the coming together at a different angle and while there's definitely a shove, it's 50/50 wether It'd be given in our game up here.

Some might say that Holt goes down easily but he's been schooled in the English leagues where they are a bit cleverer. Their way of thinking is that if they've been barged and been impeded then why shouldn't they go down? It's not simulation and it would have been awarded if it had happened down South.

Holts footballing brain is probably bigger than the ones of all the refs in this country combined.

BoomtownHibeys
06-11-2016, 09:21 AM
Am I the only person who thinks holt goes down to easy for a big guy

You probably are

It's playing the game, he has masses of experience of how and when to do it

The Green Goblin
06-11-2016, 09:56 AM
You have to be a Hearts player to get a penalty.

Heisenberg
06-11-2016, 10:03 AM
Am I the only person who thinks holt goes down to easy for a big guy

He does and he uses it very well. We've needed a guy like him up front in this league for the past two years. Delighted we've got him.

xyz23jc
06-11-2016, 10:06 AM
Stone waller IMO. He was shaping to shoot and the defender used two hands in the back to push him over

This. H The ref probably hesitated because Holt was in yellow. :wink::greengrin

bob12345
06-11-2016, 10:07 AM
Would have been soft.

NORTHERNHIBBY
06-11-2016, 10:15 AM
Would have been raging if it was given against us. Not a penalty.

But we have already been with the mythical penalty given against us at Dunfermline. As the pundits and papers say, these things even out. Ayr also benefitted from an equally mysterious red card in the home game. Maybe we are due one soon.

Booked4Being-Ugly
06-11-2016, 10:16 AM
Apparently getting shoved, held back, grabbed and generally manhandled are all legitimate penalties, unless you're Grant Holt.

Moulin Yarns
06-11-2016, 10:30 AM
Watched the highlights on Ayr Utd TV. It looked the same as the one The Rangers were furious about on May 21st. :wink:

Carheenlea
06-11-2016, 11:28 AM
If we are ever to use TV footage to assist with refereeing decisions, it's going to have to be of better quality than a single camera high up in the stand. Looks a soft claim going by film, but standing about 12 yards away behind the goal looking straight down in it, it was a stonewaller.
The camera sometimes does lie.

Colr
06-11-2016, 11:32 AM
Wouldn't have given that to be fair. Holt could have stayed on his feet, not clear enough for a pen IMO.

From the clip it looks as if he went over too easily.

Golden Bear
06-11-2016, 11:32 AM
Didn't think it was a penalty myself, on the footage it looked nothing more than an awkward stumble.

Better luck next time.

Bayern Bru
06-11-2016, 12:12 PM
Ayr defender has two hands on Holt as he receives the ball.

17606

This is the push...

17607

This is Holt starting to go over

17608

Soft if given, sure, but I think the defender knocks Holt off balance when he would have been shaping to shoot. Clancy has a great view of it, don't know if he reckons it's a shoulder-to-shoulder type scenario but I've seen them given.

Carheenlea
06-11-2016, 12:20 PM
Ayr defender has two hands on Holt as he receives the ball.

17606

This is the push...

17607

This is Holt starting to go over

17608

Soft if given, sure, but I think the defender knocks Holt off balance when he would have been shaping to shoot. Clancy has a great view of it, don't know if he reckons it's a shoulder-to-shoulder type scenario but I've seen them given.

The view from 40 odd yards away looks soft, but viewed from 10 yards away it is as clear a penalty as you will see. All those that viewed from closer quarters at the game seem to be in agreement that it was a penalty. Obviously the referee was also closer than the camera but didn't give it, but that's to be expected.

May2116
06-11-2016, 12:24 PM
It doesn't matter if the push was enough to knock holt over, if the push knocks holt off balance, to the tune he stumbles, can't get his shot off and ends up tumbling then it is a stonewaller. Not all contact is a foul but you can't just push someone when they get wrongside of you.

WhileTheChief..
06-11-2016, 12:56 PM
So opinions are that it was a stonewaller / soft / never a pen.

Ref's got a hard job to avoid the conspiracy theories on this one :wink:

FitbaFolkKen
06-11-2016, 01:08 PM
Am I the only person who thinks holt goes down to easy for a big guy

I agree, I think sometimes he really uses his strength and others he goes down far too easy.

Folk have commented that he uses his experience to go down at the right times but the number of times he has gone down and got nothing suggests that either he is making the wrong decisions or the refs know exactly what he is up to.

I really like him as a player but not a big fan of this part of his game.

brog
06-11-2016, 01:32 PM
From the clipping early in this thread I thought it was tough to call. From Hibs TV it's a stonewaller, 2 hands on back & a push. Interestingly, the ref is directly in line with the TV camera so had a perfect view of the incident. For things to even themselves up soon we're due to score 35 offside goals this season & for Yams to be reduced to 7 men in our next 5 games!

Kavinho
06-11-2016, 03:27 PM
I probably wouldn't have given that one for 9 teams out of 10.

On the 10th occasion, id call back play - back to the other end of the pitch and give a penalty against the yams

High-On-Hibs
06-11-2016, 07:29 PM
Not a penalty imo. Don't think Holt was getting to that before the GK.

ancient hibee
06-11-2016, 08:06 PM
Not a penalty imo. Don't think Holt was getting to that before the GK.

What's that got to do with it?

High-On-Hibs
06-11-2016, 08:20 PM
What's that got to do with it?

He wasn't getting to the ball in time and there certainly wasn't enough in it to make him go down like that. He knew he wasn't going to get there, so took the opportunity to go down. it's not a penalty.

brog
06-11-2016, 08:46 PM
Not a penalty imo. Don't think Holt was getting to that before the GK.

Think you're looking at a different incident!

High-On-Hibs
06-11-2016, 09:10 PM
Think you're looking at a different incident!

Seen it perfectly clear thanks. Must have remembered to take my green tinted specs off before hand though.

Wee Effen Bee
06-11-2016, 09:22 PM
No green-tinted specs - a penalty all day long for me I'm afraid. Then again, I thought the tackles on Fontain and Holt last week as well as the Raith one on the Squirrel could easily have been given too. Mind you, I do have green eyes.:greengrin

brog
06-11-2016, 09:24 PM
Seen it perfectly clear thanks. Must have remembered to take my green tinted specs off before hand though.

I wasn't being smart, I thought you were referring to the 2nd half incident where Holt lobbed keeper & was then taken out. I didn't understand why you mentioned the keeper. The ball in this incident is almost at Holt's feet & the keeper is 14 yards away.

Mr White
06-11-2016, 09:25 PM
Not a penalty imo. Don't think Holt was getting to that before the GK.

That's irrelevant. If a striker knocks the ball past a keeper and gets wiped out by flailing hands then it's a penalty regardless of whether or not he'd get to the ball before it goes out for a goal kick.

Take the penalty we were rightly awarded by Bobby Madden in the new year derby 3 years ago. Stevenson gets cleaned out just as the ball crosses the line for a goal kick.

If that was the other way round and holt pushed the defender like that I have no doubt it would have been a free kick.

allezsauzee
07-11-2016, 01:54 PM
Not a pen but certainly better camera work than the footage on Hibs TV

matty_f
07-11-2016, 02:02 PM
Having seen it again, I don't think it's as clear cut as I first thought, I can see why the ref didn't give it. The point that Mr White raised about Holt getting cleaned out by their keeper after he lobbed him is correct though - that's a clear pen (assuming it was in the box).

where'stheslope
07-11-2016, 02:13 PM
You have to be a Hearts player to get a penalty.

Ask Tony Watt about it.
He was Yellow carded for a stonewaller and on the BBC highlights he is again brought down with a high challenge?

Sorry to say but he probably never deserved them anyway, but its the old story referees are a law unto themselves and as crooked as they come or just plain useless!!!

Future17
07-11-2016, 02:14 PM
I've only seen the YouTube highlights and I wouldn't have awarded a penalty for the challenge on Holt in the first half.

However, the "challenge" by their keeper on Holt in the second half is a definite penalty for me - I can never understand why keepers get away with late contact on opposition players where there's (quite often) no likelihood of playing the ball.

Kato
07-11-2016, 02:21 PM
So opinions are that it was a stonewaller / soft / never a pen.

Ref's got a hard job to avoid the conspiracy theories on this one :wink:

You've got to take into account that some people, although able to express an opinion, don't have a clue what they are on about. I include the ref in this.

snooky
07-11-2016, 05:43 PM
Even with my thick green colour specs on, it still would have been a soft pen, IMO.
Seen them given though. Normally against us.

WeeRussell
08-11-2016, 12:32 PM
I think he went down easily. Again.

Would have been fairly soft if given and certainly not a stone waller for me.