PDA

View Full Version : Fifa ban poppy from shirts



HibbyDave
01-11-2016, 08:08 AM
Story in the press about FIFA stating Scotland and England cannot wear a poppy on their shirt as it is political!
Loads of teams have a poppy on their shirt at this time of year.

Keith_M
01-11-2016, 08:11 AM
Everybody run for cover!!!!!!


:paranoid:


:take that



:offski:

CyberSauzee
01-11-2016, 08:22 AM
I thought it was to remember the war dead. Some choose not to wear a strip with a poppy on it for political reasons.

What next, banning black armbands as that could be inferred as a political statement by some!!?

Pretty Boy
01-11-2016, 08:30 AM
This happened last year as well and the year before and the year before and so on and so forth.

It's sure fire click bait for the tabloids though as people vent their outrage so it's perfect for a slow news day.

GreenNWhiteArmy
01-11-2016, 08:53 AM
Not read any links but heard it in the news driving to work.

I assumed it was due to it being international football where FIFA bans any statement of sorts?

Guaranteed the usual James McLean case will appear in the media over the coming days....

bingo70
01-11-2016, 08:58 AM
Why do we need to wear poppies on our shirts? Don't remember anyone doing this at all until the last few years?

(Now where's that can of worms smilie)

Moulin Yarns
01-11-2016, 09:01 AM
Is this acceptable?

http://www.members.shaw.ca/peacepoppies/photo%20of%20white%20poppy.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi2r_bvmIfQAhXGSRoKHaHFD90QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.shaw.ca%2Fpeacepoppie s%2Fpeacepoppies-how.html&psig=AFQjCNFIYMIlJWW1FbiYdGsaXerEIQkLtA&ust=1478077221530481)

:wink:

Renfrew_Hibby
01-11-2016, 09:02 AM
The rangers had poppies at the weekend. Fine or points deduction?

Thecat23
01-11-2016, 09:02 AM
I'm getting sick to death that every year this is becoming an issue. It's like it's now a must have fashion item. If folk don't wear one they are slaughtered for it in the press! It's down to personal reasons when folk choose not to or want to and it shouldn't make the papers or news.

I'll wear one on my jacket but not for fashion but for a mark of respect which seems to be getting lost in the political rubbish.

I couldn't care less if the person next to me at work doesn't wear one and I'll not be pestering him why either.

Rant over! 😁

Itsnoteasy
01-11-2016, 09:11 AM
When did this actually start to be a fashion item on a shirt. Can't remember them in 70.'s 80's & 90's

Bostonhibby
01-11-2016, 09:12 AM
I'm getting sick to death that every year this is becoming an issue. It's like it's now a must have fashion item. If folk don't wear one they are slaughtered for it in the press! It's down to personal reasons when folk choose not to or want to and it shouldn't make the papers or news.

I'll wear one on my jacket but not for fashion but for a mark of respect which seems to be getting lost in the political rubbish.

I couldn't care less if the person next to me at work doesn't wear one and I'll not be pestering him why either.

Rant over! 😁
Yep, same here.

FIFA would be a lot better advised to ban snouts from troughs and stay out of moral issues until they put their own house in order.



Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

Thecat23
01-11-2016, 09:14 AM
Yep, same here.

FIFA would be a lot better advised to ban snouts from troughs and stay out of moral issues until they put their own house in order.



Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

Exactly.

Largshibby
01-11-2016, 09:17 AM
The rangers had poppies at the weekend. Fine or points deduction?

They can do that as they are the football club of choice for the armed forces. Fair enough since they are both taxpayer funded!

son of haggart
01-11-2016, 09:28 AM
I'm getting sick to death that every year this is becoming an issue. It's like it's now a must have fashion item. If folk don't wear one they are slaughtered for it in the press! It's down to personal reasons when folk choose not to or want to and it shouldn't make the papers or news.

I'll wear one on my jacket but not for fashion but for a mark of respect which seems to be getting lost in the political rubbish.

I couldn't care less if the person next to me at work doesn't wear one and I'll not be pestering him why either.

Rant over! 😁

The correct answer - should be a personal choice unless there are special circumstances where the poppy would be appropriate. Even then we should respect people's right to opt out of the event

southern hibby
01-11-2016, 09:32 AM
This can cant wear poppies is a farce. It's personal choice but for an orginisation like FIFA to come out and say you can't wear a poppies is a disgrace.
Don't know if FIFA realise there are different coloured Poppies, also on offer if red isn't wanted is White ( for peace) purple ( not sure about) black ( for African and ethnic minorities).

As having served 22 years Royal Navy, I have never once put a poppy on and thought it was just for British Military that died, I have also believed it to be for everyone who died in every conflict., from all religious and walks of life including civilians personal caught up in the conflicts.

They may stop clubs from wearing a poppy but they'll not stop me from wearing one on my Hibs Top.


GGTTH.

Andy74
01-11-2016, 09:40 AM
This can cant wear poppies is a farce. It's personal choice but for an orginisation like FIFA to come out and say you can't wear a poppies is a disgrace.
Don't know if FIFA realise there are different coloured Poppies, also on offer if red isn't wanted is White ( for peace) purple ( not sure about) black ( for African and ethnic minorities).

As having served 22 years Royal Navy, I have never once put a poppy on and thought it was just for British Military that died, I have also believed it to be for everyone who died in every conflict., from all religious and walks of life including civilians personal caught up in the conflicts.

They may stop clubs from wearing a poppy but they'll not stop me from wearing one on my Hibs Top.


GGTTH.

They aren't specifically targeting poppies. What they have to be careful about is leaving it open for all sorts of gestures which of course the people wanting it can justify but may cause issues.

It's a tricky one so I can see why a blanket ban on this stuff without making individual judgments works fine.

Keith_M
01-11-2016, 09:56 AM
The correct answer - should be a personal choice unless there are special circumstances where the poppy would be appropriate. Even then we should respect people's right to opt out of the event



So personal choice should come into it until somebody else decides otherwise?


I do not and never have worn a red poppy. That is my choice and the reasons behind it are personal. People may well infer something into this and invariably they will be wrong, as it's based purely on their own prejudiced view of life.

Forcing me to wear a Poppy if I do not want to is reminiscent of a fascist state.

JimBHibees
01-11-2016, 10:15 AM
So personal choice should come into it until somebody else decides otherwise?


I do not and never have worn a red poppy. That is my choice and the reasons behind it are personal. People may well infer something into this and invariably they will be wrong, as it's based purely on their own prejudiced view of life.

Forcing me to wear a Poppy if I do not want to is reminiscent of a fascist state.

Tend to agree surely the whole idea of remembering the war dead is that they perceived they were fighting for the very freedom against totalitarianism which this poppy fascism seems to represent.

Geo_1875
01-11-2016, 10:32 AM
Tend to agree surely the whole idea of remembering the war dead is that they perceived they were fighting for the very freedom against totalitarianism which this poppy fascism seems to represent.

Not in the "Great War".

JimBHibees
01-11-2016, 10:57 AM
Not in the "Great War".

They certainly thought they were fighting for freedom.

ED Hibee
01-11-2016, 11:31 AM
For once I am with FIFA on this one. People need to look at the wider picture. The poppy is not an international symbol for peace and can be quite a divisive issue (James McLean/Northern Ireland etc).

If FIFA were to allow this how could they stop other countries wearing symbols to commemorate their war dead in conflicts that are a lot closer and more sensitive than the ones we tend to remember (Ukraine/Russia, Serbia/Bosnia/Albania).

CockneyRebel
01-11-2016, 11:41 AM
So personal choice should come into it until somebody else decides otherwise?


I do not and never have worn a red poppy. That is my choice and the reasons behind it are personal. People may well infer something into this and invariably they will be wrong, as it's based purely on their own prejudiced view of life.

Forcing me to wear a Poppy if I do not want to is reminiscent of a fascist state.

No-one has ever been forced to wear a poppy, it has always been a matter of choice. Some dicks criticise folk for not wearing one but you could never be forced to wear one. Your statement seems just as silly as their criticism.

jacomo
01-11-2016, 11:44 AM
[/B]No-one has ever been forced to wear a poppy, it has always been a matter of choice. Some dicks criticise folk for not wearing one but you could never be forced to wear one. Your statement seems just as silly as their criticism.

Incorporating a poppy into a shirt design literally does force the players to wear one though. They are not given any choice in the matter.

Geo_1875
01-11-2016, 11:50 AM
They certainly thought they were fighting for freedom.

Well somebody lied to them.

lyonhibs
01-11-2016, 11:51 AM
International football = banned. Club football = not banned.

That article = a load of clickbait *****

Keith_M
01-11-2016, 11:59 AM
No-one has ever been forced to wear a poppy, it has always been a matter of choice. Some dicks criticise folk for not wearing one but you could never be forced to wear one. Your statement seems just as silly as their criticism.


It's quite a common affliction to take a comment or statement our of context then judge the person on part of that statement.

Might I suggest reading through the comment I was responding to and then re-read my reply, before you decide that what I said was 'silly'.

brog
01-11-2016, 12:02 PM
I'm getting sick to death that every year this is becoming an issue. It's like it's now a must have fashion item. If folk don't wear one they are slaughtered for it in the press! It's down to personal reasons when folk choose not to or want to and it shouldn't make the papers or news.

I'll wear one on my jacket but not for fashion but for a mark of respect which seems to be getting lost in the political rubbish.

I couldn't care less if the person next to me at work doesn't wear one and I'll not be pestering him why either.

Rant over! 😁

I agree 100% F. It seems to me that tv presenters now start wearing poppies in mid to late October. If you don't wear one on TV you're subjected to all sorts of abuse which is somewhat ironic as this is the kind of fascist behaviour we fought against!! Even more ironic is that one of the major poppy cheerleaders is the Daily Mail, "Hurrah for the blackshirts" & that last month saw the 80th anniversary of the battle of Cable St. I always donate & usually wear a poppy but I hate the crap around it that's emerged in recent years.

21.5.16
01-11-2016, 12:07 PM
Not read any links but heard it in the news driving to work.

I assumed it was due to it being international football where FIFA bans any statement of sorts?

Guaranteed the usual James McLean case will appear in the media over the coming days....
Dont really blame James McClean for not wearing the poppy, he's from Derry members of his family were killed, i dont wear a poppy. But national teams should be able to choose weather they wear the poppy or not and not get abuse for their personal choice

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

NAE NOOKIE
01-11-2016, 01:00 PM
The poppy is worn to commemorate the war dead .... the last time I looked soldiers, sailors and airmen from these islands did not and do not have a choice as to where they get sent to fight, that insanity is left to the politicians ... sometimes the politicians are right, sometimes they are very, very, wrong .... but no matter what the armed forces think of their decision they have no choice but to go where they are sent.

The poppy is not worn to glorify war or to show support for the decision to take part in any conflict past or present and if that is becoming more and more seen as not being the case its only because people with an agenda have made it so and have themselves deliberately politicised something that was never intended to be and never has been political, at least not in my lifetime. If people don't want to wear a poppy as a matter of individual choice that's absolutely fine, but leave that choice to them and that includes any Scotland player who doesn't want to wear that shirt ... I'm sure the SFA have more than 11 pink shirts.

FIFA are wrong in this instance and they should butt out and get on with sorting out the bloody shambles they have created for themselves instead of getting entirely the wrong end of the stick regarding a symbol they clearly know nothing about.

StevieC
01-11-2016, 02:40 PM
My understanding is that it's a blanket ban by FIFA on anything added to International shirts (that may, or may not, be conceived as political). The fact that the poppy falls in to that category appears to have been seized on by the papers in order to sensationalise an issue (and probably sell more papers).

It's not FIFA specifically banning the poppy, per se.

I am guessing that each International strip has to be cleared by FIFA prior to release? So it kinda makes sense to do a blanket ban than have to have a "should they, shouldn't they" discussion every time an association wanted to add something to an already accepted strip design.

greenlex
01-11-2016, 02:48 PM
My understanding is that it's a blanket ban by FIFA on anything added to International shirts (that may, or may not, be conceived as political). The fact that the poppy falls in to that category appears to have been seized on by the papers in order to sensationalise an issue (and probably sell more papers).

It's not FIFA specifically banning the poppy, per se.

I am guessing that each International strip has to be cleared by FIFA prior to release? So it kinda makes sense to do a blanket ban than have to have a "should they, shouldn't they" discussion every time an association wanted to add something to an already accepted strip design.
This

CockneyRebel
01-11-2016, 02:53 PM
Incorporating a poppy into a shirt design literally does force the players to wear one though. They are not given any choice in the matter.

Plenty of players have refused to wear a poppy or poppy shirt design in the past and they were never benched or dropped over it. The problem is that all the different headlines from people with different agendas stir up controversy. Whether you are for wearing a poppy or against it or a fence sitter just quietly do your own thing. I wear one to remember absent friends who lost their lives not to glorify war nor to protest against it but it should always be your choice.

lyonhibs
01-11-2016, 02:57 PM
[/B]No-one has ever been forced to wear a poppy, it has always been a matter of choice. Some dicks criticise folk for not wearing one but you could never be forced to wear one. Your statement seems just as silly as their criticism.

Did you read the post he was responding to and the content contained therein?

I can only assume not

Keith_M
01-11-2016, 03:00 PM
I'd (genuinely) like to apologise to anybody I offended by the tone of my previous comments.





I knew I should have stayed out of this discussion, I always get carried away

:greengrin

Squealing pig
01-11-2016, 03:04 PM
Petrie!!

Keith_M
01-11-2016, 03:07 PM
Petrie!!


Does he wear a Poppy as well?

CockneyRebel
01-11-2016, 03:14 PM
Did you read the post he was responding to and the content contained therein?

I can only assume not

You should read it again - especially the last sentence which clearly states that he believes it should be an individual's choice.

AZhibee
01-11-2016, 04:30 PM
No poppies, but they are fine with gambling houses prominently displayed? Gotta love em.

wookie70
01-11-2016, 04:44 PM
I'm not a poppy wearer and never have or will be. I do agree with the majority on here that it is personal choice. The easy solution is to let those who want to wear one stick it on their suit on the way to the ground.

Emotive emblems such as wearing a poppy should have no place on a football strip unless they are part of the clubs crest and history. FIFA are spot on here and they have to look at the big picture. How far would you be allowed to push the envelope if they allowed these symbols. Would a swastika be OK to remember those that died under that emblem.

Football is far too political as it is and the more such matters are kept out the better.

Scouse Hibee
01-11-2016, 04:47 PM
Every year we have poppygate in one form or another. It's a non story really

son of haggart
01-11-2016, 04:51 PM
So personal choice should come into it until somebody else decides otherwise?


I do not and never have worn a red poppy. That is my choice and the reasons behind it are personal. People may well infer something into this and invariably they will be wrong, as it's based purely on their own prejudiced view of life.

Forcing me to wear a Poppy if I do not want to is reminiscent of a fascist state.

No - if you read the following sentence you'll see I am saying there may be special events where a poppy is the dress code, in which case people should be allowed to opt out without any criticism.


edit - and reading your following post, no problem it IS a very emotive subject I agree, and we probably think much the same on the subject - pm me if you want to discuss

Personally I only wear them to the remembrance ceremony itself, I have no problem with someone who wants not to wear them, it's their right.

Bostonhibby
01-11-2016, 05:18 PM
Football is my interest, Hibs are my passion and have been with me for decades.

As one poster said the reasons our soldiers went to war were at the whims of politicians and I believe policy makers, not the soldiers themselves who do their duty.

For that reason I think recognition of this in some way transcends mere football and it's down to every individual or organisation to pay their tribute (or not) as they want.

Certainly don't want FIFA or any other hypocrites or politically correct thinkers telling anyone what to do on a subject that can mean different things to each of us.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

Dashing Bob S
01-11-2016, 06:25 PM
Used to wear it pride. Since media/Jambos/far right seized on it as device to further their own sordid totalitarian state ideals, I've since shunned it and will never wear one again.

StevieC
01-11-2016, 06:52 PM
Used to wear it pride. Since media/Jambos/far right seized on it as device to further their own sordid totalitarian state ideals, I've since shunned it and will never wear one again.

Whilst stopping short of saying I won't wear one again, I do feel the same.

emerald green
01-11-2016, 07:00 PM
People (who choose to) wear the red poppy on their chest as a symbol of Remembrance: to remember the fallen service men and women killed in conflict.

It should be noted that all proceeds raised through their sale go directly to the important work in providing care and support to all members of the British armed forces and their families. Nearly a quarter of those helped now are below the age of 44.

Nobody at the Poppy Appeal is forcing anyone to buy or wear a poppy. The clue is in the word Appeal. I choose to wear mine with pride and gratitude to those who made the ultimate sacrifice. That's my choice. Others are free to make their own choice.

HappyAsHellas
01-11-2016, 07:07 PM
I never wear one myself these days, but always donate. Like others I'm sick of the point scoring involved nowadays.

beensaidbefore
01-11-2016, 07:07 PM
[/B]No-one has ever been forced to wear a poppy, it has always been a matter of choice. Some dicks criticise folk for not wearing one but you could never be forced to wear one. Your statement seems just as silly as their criticism.

What if some players opted to whilst others didn't. Can of worms mate.

Galahibby
01-11-2016, 07:34 PM
The poppy is worn to commemorate the war dead .... the last time I looked soldiers, sailors and airmen from these islands did not and do not have a choice as to where they get sent to fight, that insanity is left to the politicians ... sometimes the politicians are right, sometimes they are very, very, wrong .... but no matter what the armed forces think of their decision they have no choice but to go where they are sent.

The poppy is not worn to glorify war or to show support for the decision to take part in any conflict past or present and if that is becoming more and more seen as not being the case its only because people with an agenda have made it so and have themselves deliberately politicised something that was never intended to be and never has been political, at least not in my lifetime. If people don't want to wear a poppy as a matter of individual choice that's absolutely fine, but leave that choice to them and that includes any Scotland player who doesn't want to wear that shirt ... I'm sure the SFA have more than 11 pink shirts.

FIFA are wrong in this instance and they should butt out and get on with sorting out the bloody shambles they have created for themselves instead of getting entirely the wrong end of the stick regarding a symbol they clearly know nothing about.

Agree with this 100%

easty
01-11-2016, 07:38 PM
I never wear one myself these days, but always donate. Like others I'm sick of the point scoring involved nowadays.

Aye, me too.

Greentinted
01-11-2016, 08:25 PM
Used to wear it pride. Since media/Jambos/far right seized on it as device to further their own sordid totalitarian state ideals, I've since shunned it and will never wear one again.

Pretty much where I am now, although less to do with the football stuff and more the misappropriation by iniquitous far-right organisations and media (mainstream and social) using it as a bullying tool and symbol of self-perceived superiority!
I would add, however, that I always observe the remembrance itself irrespective of where I am at the time.

Mon Dieu4
01-11-2016, 08:26 PM
The story has had some use, I've had another Facebook cull of people that had slipped through my net

Wee Effen Bee
01-11-2016, 09:26 PM
The poppy is worn to commemorate the war dead .... the last time I looked soldiers, sailors and airmen from these islands did not and do not have a choice as to where they get sent to fight, that insanity is left to the politicians ... sometimes the politicians are right, sometimes they are very, very, wrong .... but no matter what the armed forces think of their decision they have no choice but to go where they are sent.

The poppy is not worn to glorify war or to show support for the decision to take part in any conflict past or present and if that is becoming more and more seen as not being the case its only because people with an agenda have made it so and have themselves deliberately politicised something that was never intended to be and never has been political, at least not in my lifetime. If people don't want to wear a poppy as a matter of individual choice that's absolutely fine, but leave that choice to them and that includes any Scotland player who doesn't want to wear that shirt ... I'm sure the SFA have more than 11 pink shirts.

FIFA are wrong in this instance and they should butt out and get on with sorting out the bloody shambles they have created for themselves instead of getting entirely the wrong end of the stick regarding a symbol they clearly know nothing about.


Sorry, but this crap gets right on my titz. Please inform us of these people with an agenda. The fact is that over the past 20/25 years or so, the politics of wearing/not wearing a poppy has been weighted heavily on the side of the promoters of wearing one. Every year, media outlets always manage to find someone to rip into for not wearing one at some event or another. The short-lived BBC policy (everyone on live Tv had to wear a red poppy) was rightly criticised by many as 'poppy fascism.' FIFA are correct to continue to highlight their policy of no symbols on national shirts - look at all the possible images/logos/whatevers which could have been paraded on shirts in the last few years.
This is a non-story, just as it was in 2011 when FIFA told Scotland, Wales and England they shouldn't have shirts with embossed poppies on them. They got round that by wearing removable ones on their sleeves. I have nothing against anyone wearing one but I never wear a poppy.

Nakedmanoncrack
01-11-2016, 09:36 PM
Until a handful of years ago nobody had thought of putting a poppy on a football shirt - can't understand how everyone managed to watch football at this time of year without getting outraged.

Pretty Boy
01-11-2016, 10:19 PM
Until a handful of years ago nobody had thought of putting a poppy on a football shirt - can't understand how everyone managed to watch football at this time of year without getting outraged.

Indeed.

I can't help but think that the rise in the politicisation of the wearing of the poppy, as opposed to the poppy itself, coinciding with less and less people who actually remember the horrors of the 2 world wars being around is no coincidence.

I remember, no pun intended, not so long ago that around about late October/early November the poppy box would appear in shops, pubs, maybe the odd verteran collecting in the street etc. People would pop a few coins in the box, take a poppy, fasten it to their coat and after Rememberance Sunday remove it again until the same time next year. There was a quiet dignity about it that I always found quite tasteful. Over the last decade the poppy seems to have become a big drama, an almost showbiz launch of the appeal, witch hunts against some who choose not to wear one, football teams wearing them is certainly a new phenomenom , TV presenters wearing them from about September 1st and so on.

For a few years I chose not to wear a poppy, I didn't tell anyone why and I didn't expect to be questioned. Last year I started to wear one again and will likely do so again this year. Again no big song and dance, I made a decision and quietly went with it.

O'Rourke3
01-11-2016, 10:38 PM
The BBC have always promoted it and been pulled up at various times for have non Haig Fund poppies on their presenters. Since they've covered the Remembrance Service from the Albert Hall and the wreath laying ceremony my whole life,so this seems fair and consistent. My view for what it's worth is the hijack is directly related to Murdoch and Sky. The poppies on footy shirts I first saw in The Premiership. Wee suggestion from the sponsors that seems reasonable. Now my Facebook feed is full of people "not afraid to show support". I will donate and buy one. I will observe the 2 minute silence. I have my own reasons however I'm pissed off at the false war created to sell papers on the back of grief.

vuefrom1875
02-11-2016, 12:23 AM
Story in the press about FIFA stating Scotland and England cannot wear a poppy on their shirt as it is political!
Loads of teams have a poppy on their shirt at this time of year.

Oops!thought the poppies were exclusive to the Tramps??!

Kavinho
02-11-2016, 08:29 AM
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/fifa-were-right-to-ban-the-poppy-and-english-153300628.html

Worth a wee read

Tinribs
02-11-2016, 08:40 AM
The royal British legions mission statement on the poppy appeal states that funds will go to help current and ex forces in a number of ways, one of those is help "politically". That may well be the grounds for FIFA not to want poppy symbols.

Whatever the reason, the poppy appeal website sells some very strange stuff indeed. Churchill badges, f35 lightning cufflinks etc..seems quite far from the idea of quiet reflection the BBC claim it is all about. I have no problem with people wearing the poppy, but as I understand it the poppy appeal requested football clubs and national teams to wear their symbol, which basically means if they don't want to offend the daily mail etc, they have to try and do it.

Never thought I would think it, but they seem no better than any of the other charity muggers that pollute our streets and doorsteps.

Moulin Yarns
02-11-2016, 09:04 AM
The royal British legions mission statement on the poppy appeal states that funds will go to help current and ex forces in a number of ways, one of those is help "politically". That may well be the grounds for FIFA not to want poppy symbols.

Whatever the reason, the poppy appeal website sells some very strange stuff indeed. Churchill badges, f35 lightning cufflinks etc..seems quite far from the idea of quiet reflection the BBC claim it is all about. I have no problem with people wearing the poppy, but as I understand it the poppy appeal requested football clubs and national teams to wear their symbol, which basically means if they don't want to offend the daily mail etc, they have to try and do it.

Never thought I would think it, but they seem no better than any of the other charity muggers that pollute our streets and doorsteps.

A lot of the merchandising that now goes along t=with the traditional poppy appeal doesn't sit comfortably with me. It started with the car poppies, which was fair enough, but now there is all the bling poppies that you see 'celebs' wearing.

http://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/ and https://www.poppyshop.org.uk/charity-jewellery.html Where is the 'respect' and quiet contemplation with that stuff? Let's leave that sort of stuff with the 'Help for Heroes' campaign.

I will get a paper poppy to go along with my white peace poppy and leave it at that.

As for the football situation, what would be wrong with the teams lining up for 2 minutes silence before kick-off round the centre circle with the circle filled with a large poppy banner instead of the FIFA one?

Steve-O
02-11-2016, 09:18 AM
Why do we need to wear poppies on our shirts? Don't remember anyone doing this at all until the last few years?

(Now where's that can of worms smilie)

Exactly. It has become a bizarre ritual that the masses seem to use against people who disagree or are not particularly fussed about wearing a poppy.

"You're not wearing a poppy???! You HEATHEN!!!!!!!!"

Edit - I should say that I neither agree with teams having to have poppies on shirts, nor do I necessarily agree that FIFA should be dictating to teams that they shouldn't be worn.

E10 Rifle
02-11-2016, 11:50 AM
I feel they should just leave it and abide by the rules. The poppy has become too politicised and as semi-responsible national bodies the SFA and FA should play along in this instance for the greater good. If I were them I would have each captain hand over a poppy wreath to the other side at the beginning of the match rather than a pennant as a way of showing appropriate respect.

CockneyRebel
02-11-2016, 12:02 PM
What if some players opted to whilst others didn't. Can of worms mate.

Players have already done this with very little credible backlash.

Pretty Boy
02-11-2016, 12:03 PM
If anyone needs any evidence of how lost the message of respect and rememberance has becone then braving social media provides plenty.

JimBHibees
02-11-2016, 12:13 PM
I feel they should just leave it and abide by the rules. The poppy has become too politicised and as semi-responsible national bodies the SFA and FA should play along in this instance for the greater good. If I were them I would have each captain hand over a poppy wreath to the other side at the beginning of the match rather than a pennant as a way of showing appropriate respect.

Yep no doubt something will take place before the game, the fake outrage over this is a bit nauseating.

wookie70
02-11-2016, 01:26 PM
The royal British legions mission statement on the poppy appeal states that funds will go to help current and ex forces in a number of ways, one of those is help "politically". That may well be the grounds for FIFA not to want poppy symbols.

Whatever the reason, the poppy appeal website sells some very strange stuff indeed. Churchill badges, f35 lightning cufflinks etc..seems quite far from the idea of quiet reflection the BBC claim it is all about. I have no problem with people wearing the poppy, but as I understand it the poppy appeal requested football clubs and national teams to wear their symbol, which basically means if they don't want to offend the daily mail etc, they have to try and do it.

Never thought I would think it, but they seem no better than any of the other charity muggers that pollute our streets and doorsteps.

Another one of the reasons I would be against the poppy being worn. It has never been about just remembrance and has always been used to help ex-servicemen. That has been the case before Haig brought the idea to the UK from France. Nothing wrong in helping servicemen but there is certainly politics involved there. Collecting money to fund something that is, in my opinion, the Government's duty is always going to be political. The more recent wars have also changed opinions on the reasons for war and that has all changed the way the Poppy has been viewed.

Whilst the Poppy is not a symbol I appreciate the idea of exchanging Poppies between Captains seems to show respect and satisfy the reason of having the poppies on the strips in the first place. If it doesn't then it was probably nothing to do with Remembrance and Respect and more to do with forcing an Agenda and possible strip sales.

givescotlandfreedom
02-11-2016, 08:15 PM
If anyone needs any evidence of how lost the message of respect and rememberance has becone then braving social media provides plenty.

Social media is brutal just now. I just had a ding dong with a jambo at work which implied Hibs as a 'Catholic themed' club and the supporters show great opposition to supports of remembrance. This is what the problem is for me. People claiming something that's supposed to be for all lives wasted at war is more theirs than any one else's and adding thinly veiled bigotry to the discussion. I don't know where this is going to end up but things are getting too far, I prefer quiet reflection which seemed to work until recently.

Scouse Hibee
02-11-2016, 08:19 PM
English FA to ignore poppy ban in game against Scotland. GIRUY FIFA

Bishop Hibee
02-11-2016, 08:22 PM
I never wear one myself these days, but always donate. Like others I'm sick of the point scoring involved nowadays.

This. Personally I donate to the white poppy campaign too if I see a seller.

ronaldo7
02-11-2016, 09:32 PM
I feel they should just leave it and abide by the rules. The poppy has become too politicised and as semi-responsible national bodies the SFA and FA should play along in this instance for the greater good. If I were them I would have each captain hand over a poppy wreath to the other side at the beginning of the match rather than a pennant as a way of showing appropriate respect.

If we go back to 1999...Scotland v England on Saturday November 13th at Hampden. Two teams without a poppy in sight. I wonder what's changed?

It could be that we've been in lots of wars since then, and so Poppy Scotland find the need to reach out for funds to help those who've been affected.:dunno:

I'd rather people were left to pay their own respects or not, as they see fit.

ronaldo7
02-11-2016, 09:36 PM
English FA to ignore poppy ban in game against Scotland. GIRUY FIFA

They're wearing black armbands with poppies on them I believe.

O'Rourke3
02-11-2016, 09:45 PM
English FA to ignore poppy ban in game against Scotland. GIRUY FIFA

And a points deduction follows. Win/win

s.a.m
02-11-2016, 09:52 PM
For once I am with FIFA on this one. People need to look at the wider picture. The poppy is not an international symbol for peace and can be quite a divisive issue (James McLean/Northern Ireland etc).

If FIFA were to allow this how could they stop other countries wearing symbols to commemorate their war dead in conflicts that are a lot closer and more sensitive than the ones we tend to remember (Ukraine/Russia, Serbia/Bosnia/Albania).

I'd tend to agree with this. FIFA have a couple of hundred member organisations, many of whom either are or have been in conflict with each other (including, as you say, a fair few current, incendiary situations), and have war dead to mourn as a result of other members' actions. A blanket ban, for me, makes sense, rather than FIFA trying to pick their way through the minefields of international relations on a case by case basis to decide whose commemoration of war dead is fair enough, and whose is likely to start a diplomatic or terrorist fracas. There are other ways for International teams to show their respects, if that's what they want to do.

brianmc
02-11-2016, 09:55 PM
http://bbc.in/2e010nw

stoneyburn hibs
02-11-2016, 10:00 PM
English FA to ignore poppy ban in game against Scotland. GIRUY FIFA

Good on them, hope the SFA do likewise.

Scouse Hibee
02-11-2016, 10:03 PM
Regardless of other conflicts and what other countries feel, this game is being played in England between two teams whose nations participate in remembrance ceremonies every year, to be told they cannot display a poppy is wrong. I applaud the FA for insisting that they will defy FIFA.

Scouse Hibee
02-11-2016, 10:05 PM
And a points deduction follows. Win/win

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest, might even help Scotland qualify;-)

660
02-11-2016, 10:07 PM
The arrogance of British FAs who think their political motivations are inherently "right" and aligned with all other FIFA member countries is laughable.

Onceinawhile
02-11-2016, 10:10 PM
David Beckham, England vs Sweden, the day before Armistice Day in 2001. No poppy, FA logo on the armband. A very modern outrage. https://t.co/m5R4sSLSZ7

Carheenlea
02-11-2016, 10:12 PM
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=3&newsID=16617

SFA statement

AltheHibby
02-11-2016, 10:19 PM
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=3&newsID=16617

SFA statement

Good. It's good to see the two FAs standing together.

660
02-11-2016, 10:20 PM
That SFA statement is dismal.

stoneyburn hibs
02-11-2016, 10:23 PM
That SFA statement is dismal.

How so ?

Scouse Hibee
02-11-2016, 10:25 PM
Good. It's good to see the two FAs standing together.

Yes agree, good response from both associations.

Scouse Hibee
02-11-2016, 10:26 PM
That SFA statement is dismal.

Says all it needs to say in my opinion.

660
02-11-2016, 10:32 PM
How so ?

Say nothing. Why does anyone care what the SFA, English FA or any other football organisation thinks about a supposed symbol of remembrance.

If I cared about the poppy which I don't, I'd suggest a bizarre clamour for football teams to use it would devalue the meaning behind it. If people really genuinely care if Wayne Rooney has a poppy on his shirt then I'd be more inclined to question their sanity than take any notice of theirs views about war.

Heaven forbid any English or Scottish players don't really want to wear a poppy. I doubt the tabloids or any other parties so desperate for them to wear a political symbol on their shirt will be so understanding of their freedom of expression.

Dashing Bob S
02-11-2016, 10:33 PM
Nobody can agree what the poppy represents anymore. Just saying "it's purely about remembering the war dead" doesn't cut it when the controllers, right-wing nutjobs and poppy shamers are lining up to marginalise anybody who disagrees with their morbid fascist death cult politics.

I would hope that the SFA/FA give players the option of wearing/not wearing what many now regard as a swastika-lite symbol of barbarous celebration.

mca
02-11-2016, 10:37 PM
If we go back to 1999...Scotland v England on Saturday November 13th at Hampden. Two teams without a poppy in sight. I wonder what's changed?

It could be that we've been in lots of wars since then, and so Poppy Scotland find the need to reach out for funds to help those who've been affected.:dunno:

I'd rather people were left to pay their own respects or not, as they see fit.

Why Did They Bring it To The Game.. ???

Scouse Hibee
02-11-2016, 10:40 PM
A poppy is not a political symbol never has been and never will be.

Sir David Gray
02-11-2016, 10:56 PM
The clincher for me was when I read earlier that FIFA allowed the Republic of Ireland players to have a commemorative symbol on their shirts earlier this year to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

I don't see how they can justify allowing that but then ban the English and Scottish players from wearing a poppy on their shirts.

Engels74
02-11-2016, 11:09 PM
I normally stay out of these issues but I have become more furious as the days go on. The Poppy is a symbol of remembrance that was created to help fund veterans and allow a symbol for those who choose to wear it to show their support for the fallen. This is what it is about. That Simple. These old men that will parade on remembrance day will be remembering their fallen comrades and friends that stay forever young in their heads. None of these men's sacrifices were done so it could be turned into a political pawn used by some to create an unhealthy atmosphere of who should wear it. I have studied History and particularly the conflicts of the last century and I can assure you that these men didn't sacrifice themselves so that a bunch of ludicrously over paid poor role model can live their lives of luxury whilst there is poverty in the city they play! Rant over this is all imho and everyone is entitled to theirs. That is what these men fought for.

Sir David Gray
02-11-2016, 11:12 PM
I normally stay out of these issues but I have become more furious as the days go on. The Poppy is a symbol of remembrance that was created to help fund veterans and allow a symbol for those who choose to wear it to show their support for the fallen. This is what it is about. That Simple. These old men that will parade on remembrance day will be remembering their fallen comrades and friends that stay forever young in their heads. None of these men's sacrifices were done so it could be turned into a political pawn used by some to create an unhealthy atmosphere of who should wear it. I have studied History and particularly the conflicts of the last century and I can assure you that these men didn't sacrifice themselves so that a bunch of ludicrously over paid poor role model can live their lives of luxury whilst there is poverty in the city they play! Rant over this is all imho and everyone is entitled to theirs. That is what these men fought for.

:top marks

Stax
02-11-2016, 11:24 PM
A poppy is not a political symbol never has been and never will be.
Depends on your politics I suppose. The prime minister at pmq telling FIFA "It should jolly well get its own house in order" was *** embarrassing and grand standing of the worst kind imo. Far more pressing concerns in the world including wars at the moment the Pm of this country should be concerning herself with. Rememberance should be as you see fit.

660
02-11-2016, 11:43 PM
A poppy is not a political symbol never has been and never will be.

If a symbol glorifying young men getting their heads blown off for no apparent reason isn't political I'm not sure what is.

High-On-Hibs
02-11-2016, 11:46 PM
It's no secret that the poppy has been heavily politicized since around 2001. It's original purpose was to display a sign of respect to fallen soldiers fighting for their country and also to raise funding to help injured and traumatized veterans. Now it's used to stir up support for illegal and immoral wars. The Blair administration used it as a tool for getting the public onside with their wicked plans. Of course, the public fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Whenever they want to bash on with something hugely controversal that will result in the deaths of thousands, they can always rely on good ole patriotism to suck in the sheep. Worked for the Nazi's and has been used as an effective tool ever since.

I'll wear the poppy when it actually means something to me again.

Onceinawhile
02-11-2016, 11:55 PM
It's no secret that the poppy has been heavily politicized since around 2001. It's original purpose was to display a sign of respect to fallen soldiers fighting for their country and also to raise funding to help injured and traumatized veterans. Now it's used to stir up support for illegal and immoral wars. The Blair administration used it as a tool for getting the public onside with their wicked plans. Of course, the public fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Whenever they want to bash on with something hugely controversal that will result in the deaths of thousands, they can always rely on good ole patriotism to suck in the sheep. Worked for the Nazi's and has been used as an effective tool ever since.

I'll wear the poppy when it actually means something to me again.

Nope, sorry. Posted a photo of David Beckham on 10th November 2011 without a poppy, no outrage. It's a very very new phenomenon.

It's a symptom of idiots buying into the media. Just like the whole "leaf should be at 11 o clock idiots"

gillythehibby
02-11-2016, 11:57 PM
Keep poppies off all football tops. Never been a lover of one on a hibs top. Players should not be forced to wear them anyway. It should be down to choice. Let both teams present a poppy wreath if the want to show a visual rememberence.

chrisski33
03-11-2016, 12:15 AM
Personnally the best way to remember those who gave their lives and were hurt is for our government to stop causing wars and invading countries for the sake of oil and greed!

Edinburgher
03-11-2016, 02:04 AM
While I have no problem honouring the heroic people who lost their lives during the great war - I don`t wish to see people like Theresa May or the unionist media making political capital out of it with all this "British" dross they are trying to ram down our throats because of Brexit and fear of Scottish independence.

southern hibby
03-11-2016, 05:51 AM
A poppy is not a political symbol never has been and never will be.

That's right SH, but I feel FIFA are making the poppy political..

GGTTH

Colr
03-11-2016, 06:56 AM
That's right SH, but I feel FIFA are making the poppy political..

GGTTH

The FA and SFA probably have forgotten to provide the right bribe to FIFA officials. As that was why England didn't secure the right to host the WC because Russia and Qatar remembered the bribes and they didn't bother you would think they would have learned by now.

PeeJay
03-11-2016, 07:26 AM
I think the poppy remembrance aspect is perfectly fine in its rightful place, I don't think the poppy should be something players are expected to wear at a football game (that makes it a political statement IMO).

To be honest, I'm more astonished by the fact that everyone (on here) is getting so hot under the collar about the "poppy", while no-one seems concerned that FIFA has also demanded that Scotland play England in that bloody awful "PINK" away strip at Wembley ... is no-one else bothered by that?
Scotland (some of...) demands the right to wear the poppy, but meekly accepts that it can't play in blue, but pink instead: what's going on back home ... :confused:

Scouse Hibee
03-11-2016, 07:31 AM
If a symbol glorifying young men getting their heads blown off for no apparent reason isn't political I'm not sure what is.

It's quite obvious you're not sure about anythung regarding the poppy,it's a symbol of remembrance nothing more,nothing less despite how protagonists like yourself try to muddy the waters.

Scouse Hibee
03-11-2016, 07:33 AM
Depends on your politics I suppose. The prime minister at pmq telling FIFA "It should jolly well get its own house in order" was *** embarrassing and grand standing of the worst kind imo. Far more pressing concerns in the world including wars at the moment the Pm of this country should be concerning herself with. Rememberance should be as you see fit.

No it doesn't depend on your politics at all it's a symbol of remembrance displayed by folk across many political beliefs.

Speedy
03-11-2016, 08:41 AM
[/B]No-one has ever been forced to wear a poppy, it has always been a matter of choice. Some dicks criticise folk for not wearing one but you could never be forced to wear one. Your statement seems just as silly as their criticism.

It has got to the stage that not wearing one is seen as a political statement.

Should be banned. Players can wearing them to and from the match if they wish to do so.

500miles
03-11-2016, 08:46 AM
It's quite obvious you're not sure about anythung regarding the poppy,it's a symbol of remembrance nothing more,nothing less despite how protagonists like yourself try to muddy the waters.

Whether we like it or not, the poppy is a symbol, and symbols are easily tainted by association. It's used to divide people politically on social media, weaponised against Muslims, and the public grieving competition that happens every year in parliament and on the news is a million miles away from the few days of quiet, contemplative reverence which was intended when the idea was conceived.

For decade upon decade, football shirts went without poppys and the FIFA rule wasn't a problem keeping politics out of football in the hope of using the game as a force for unity.

I'm sure the players can wear their poppies on their match day suits, and the crowd can wear them as usual. In the press particularly, this is just petty militaristic nationalism disguised as grief and righteous indignation.

As an aside, the most concise argument I've come across is that if not wearing one amounts to a political statement, then wearing one must be the other side of the same coin

J-C
03-11-2016, 08:57 AM
How about stitching the word poppy in red onto each jersey, nothing in the rules about that.

Mr White
03-11-2016, 08:58 AM
War is the extreme result of political statements. Anything connected to the resulting effects of war can have political association attached to it to depending on who is making the judgment.

For most of us in the UK the poppy doesn't symbolise anything political, rather quiet remembrance for those who died in conflicts they had no say in. For people abroad looking in however I suspect it's far easier to attach political significance to the symbol.

Moulin Yarns
03-11-2016, 09:00 AM
The clincher for me was when I read earlier that FIFA allowed the Republic of Ireland players to have a commemorative symbol on their shirts earlier this year to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

I don't see how they can justify allowing that but then ban the English and Scottish players from wearing a poppy on their shirts.

Having seen the embroidery on the FAI shirts I would see it as commemorating the centenary of the nation. There is no mention of the uprising. Can't wait for the centenary of Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia etc :wink:

easty
03-11-2016, 09:05 AM
How about stitching the word poppy in red onto each jersey, nothing in the rules about that.

How about just playing a game of football without the need to wear a poppy for a couple of hours, and just personally remembering those that the poppy appeal is meant for. Also remembering that not wearing a poppy for all to see doesn't mean they don't care. Then, if they want, sticking your poppy on your clothes after the game.

easty
03-11-2016, 09:13 AM
I don't often agree with Danny Mills but he's right here.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37857370

High-On-Hibs
03-11-2016, 09:25 AM
To be honest, I'm more astonished by the fact that everyone (on here) is getting so hot under the collar about the "poppy", while no-one seems concerned that FIFA has also demanded that Scotland play England in that bloody awful "PINK" away strip at Wembley ... is no-one else bothered by that?
Scotland (some of...) demands the right to wear the poppy, but meekly accepts that it can't play in blue, but pink instead: what's going on back home ... :confused:

True. But nothing would be more humiliating than losing to a team in that strip. We could turn the humiliation on them big time if we actually turn up and play. England are nothing special, their arrogance will be their down fall.

The Harp Awakes
03-11-2016, 09:44 AM
That SFA statement is dismal.

If the SFA showed the same level of interest in sorting out our game as they seem to have over wearing a poppy on a shirt, Scottish football might not be the shambles it is.

My great Uncle was 17 when he died in the Somme and even though I never knew him, I always think of him on rememberence day. A tragic waste of life.

I'm like many on here about the poppy though. Sadly it's been hijacked by the poppy mafia who's only interest is confronting those who choose not to recognise it. Very sad indeed. I haven't worn one since I was a kid.

Lest we forget many say. We'll the problem is successive UK governments have forgotten the tragic loss of life in the 2 world wars. They have remembered and learned nothing. The unnecessary wars in the Falklands and Iraq are examples of that. If you were a cynic you could say what's the point in remembering?

green&left
03-11-2016, 10:09 AM
Scotland v England, Nov 13th 1999. Not a poppy insight. No faux outrage or bedwetting either. Fast forward some years to now...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/17/0233F21F000004B0-2838319-image-4_1416265266557.jpg

magpie1892
03-11-2016, 11:13 AM
True. But nothing would be more humiliating than losing to a team in that strip. We could turn the humiliation on them big time if we actually turn up and play. England are nothing special, their arrogance will be their down fall.

You're right, England are nothing special, but we will beat Scotland a week Friday. As a permanent guest in your wonderful country, I too think it's ridiculous that you have to wear that pink strip - it's a shocker.

ClewsHibs
03-11-2016, 11:23 AM
The players have the weeks running up to the 11th, and 22 other hours in the day to show respect if they wish. I'm sure they can go 90 minutes without wearing a poppy on a football strip, imo.

fulshie
03-11-2016, 11:55 AM
Scotland played Cyprus on 11th Nov 2010 and didn't wear a poppy, We played Bulgaria on 11th Nov 1987 and didn't wear a poppy. We played numerous Home Internationals around the poppy season in the 1950's and didn't wear a poppy. This time of year is an international date for a long time now and we haven't wore a poppy. So what's changed? and why is this fixture so special? IMO the poppy is fast becoming some sort of political lobbying symbol rather than what its really supposed to mean. I personally give donations into tins on a regular basis this time of year and have the utmost respect for those that gave and give their all for our freedoms that we have today but, I have decided not to wear one this year as I feel you get bullied into wearing one for the wrong reasons. I will give my personal rememberance and thoughts for those who fell in my own way.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-11-2016, 12:48 PM
Scotland played Cyprus on 11th Nov 2010 and didn't wear a poppy, We played Bulgaria on 11th Nov 1987 and didn't wear a poppy. We played numerous Home Internationals around the poppy season in the 1950's and didn't wear a poppy. This time of year is an international date for a long time now and we haven't wore a poppy. So what's changed? and why is this fixture so special? IMO the poppy is fast becoming some sort of political lobbying symbol rather than what its really supposed to mean. I personally give donations into tins on a regular basis this time of year and have the utmost respect for those that gave and give their all for our freedoms that we have today but, I have decided not to wear one this year as I feel you get bullied into wearing one for the wrong reasons. I will give my personal rememberance and thoughts for those who fell in my own way.

Agree with this. It has become meaningless virtue signalling, and possibly even something a bit more jingoistic and unsavoury given the tines we are in. Relfection should be personal.

surreyhibbie
03-11-2016, 01:06 PM
Agree with this. It has become meaningless virtue signalling, and possibly even something a bit more jingoistic and unsavoury given the tines we are in. Relfection should be personal.

I agree, I have no issue with whether someone does/does not wear a poppy. And I am the Treasurer of a Royal British Legion Club so it is obvious where my feelings lie but I feel it is now being used to alienate and divide people instead of as a personal statement.

The issue for me is FIFA telling us we cant wear it.

If the SFA or the FA decide we should wear poppies (or not) then that should be the end of it. Nothing to do with FIFA or anyone else.

Biggie
03-11-2016, 01:09 PM
Gotta laugh at FIFA flexing their "muscle" with poppygate, when they say the square root of **** all to Russia and let them keep the world cup tournament.

superfurryhibby
03-11-2016, 01:10 PM
It's quite obvious you're not sure about anythung regarding the poppy,it's a symbol of remembrance nothing more,nothing less despite how protagonists like yourself try to muddy the waters.

Not really Scouse. There are now "political" connotations attached to the whole business. Like others have commented, the gutter press and their associates have a drive to link the poppy to national pride and Britishness. The whole furore is so manufactured and demonstrates the kind of opium for the people newsfeeds that satisfy the carvings of those who are also taken in by Brexit, voting Tory, supporting war on terror etc, etc.

Symbols in themselves are just conceptualised images, we readilly add meanings to them through media, politics. The swastika, surely the most potent symbol of the 20th century, started life as a prehistoric sun symbol. Look where that one went!

Funny, when I was a boy the poppy as about remembering the fallen in the imperialist conflict that was WW1, now it's broadened it's scope somewhat to include all our war dead. That shift has in itself many implications and highlights how manipulation of symbols can change their fundamental meanings.

For me, keep the poppy out of football. Trite and tokenistic nonsense.

hibbytam
03-11-2016, 01:17 PM
I agree, I have no issue with whether someone does/does not wear a poppy. And I am the Treasurer of a Royal British Legion Club so it is obvious where my feelings lie but I feel it is now being used to alienate and divide people instead of as a personal statement.

The issue for me is FIFA telling us we cant wear it.

If the SFA or the FA decide we should wear poppies (or not) then that should be the end of it. Nothing to do with FIFA or anyone else.

But they're not. Fifa are enforcing rules that are put into place by Ifab, which our FA and the English FA are part of.

Betty Boop
03-11-2016, 01:51 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PVBl6BU.png Fatty Foulkes = classless fud.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2016, 02:03 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PVBl6BU.png

Christ that's a long battle. I thought it only lasted a few months.

Fatty'll be chuffed to be quoted as he won't realise that giantpoppywatch is spoofing him.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-11-2016, 02:11 PM
Christ that's a long battle. I thought it only lasted a few months.

I pesume that poppywatch twitrer is being satirical?

Anyone asked foulkes if hearts have paid for these ones?

I know it shouldnt be, but hearts and their thinly veiled triumphalism is one of the things that has turned me away from poppies.

Mon Dieu4
03-11-2016, 02:16 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PVBl6BU.png Fatty Foulkes = classless fud.

I don't use twitter, please tell me that someone has pointed out the irony to pishy breeks considering who they bumped for cash?

lapsedhibee
03-11-2016, 02:18 PM
I know it shouldnt be, but hearts and their thinly veiled triumphalism is one of the things that has turned me away from poppies.

I don't look on it so much as triumphalism but rather, as another poster said earlier, "virtue signalling". In their case, truly nauseating.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-11-2016, 02:20 PM
I don't look on it so much as triumphalism but rather, as another poster said earlier, "virtue signalling". In their case, truly nauseating.

Yeah i agree, but with them i also think there is an 'establishment' versus outsiders subtext that lurks just beneath the surface, that this issue plays into.

ronaldo7
03-11-2016, 03:31 PM
I don't use twitter, please tell me that someone has pointed out the irony to pishy breeks considering who they bumped for cash?

Found on Twitter.

17586

This covers most of this year's poppy outrage.

https://t.co/bVm4kokul9

worcesterhibby
03-11-2016, 04:03 PM
I would just like to thank the Hibs.net community for this thread...in amongst all the nauseating rubbish that is being printed by newspapers and spouted by politicians about this Poppy issue I can honestly say that the most mature debate and intelligent points of view I have heard have come from this thread.

I buy a poppy and I support my local British legion, but I hate the politicisation of the symbol and the moral high ground of the outraged. You have all restored my faith in humans and that includes those on here like Scouse who are arguing for the poppy to be worn...decent debate..reasonable exchange of views...no moral whitewash...once again..well done Hibs.net

Football is about 22 players kicking a ball about for our entertainment...it has sod all to do with Poppy day and never has.

Kavinho
03-11-2016, 05:43 PM
Interesting to discover that the EDL climbed the FIFA HQ building 5 years ago with a banner reading:

"English Defence League. How dare*Fifa*disrespect our war dead and wounded. Support our troops"


If that's not a indication of the politicisation of the emblem, not sure what is.

monktonharp
03-11-2016, 05:59 PM
Found on Twitter.

17586

This covers most of this year's poppy outrage.

https://t.co/bVm4kokul9well, if you tolerate this, then your children will be next:wink:

wookie70
03-11-2016, 06:22 PM
I don't often agree with Danny Mills but he's right here.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37857370
It isn't a bad idea but you are still potentially putting a player(employee) in a position he is being forced to do something completely against his views. It has nothing to do with his employment and if they refused to do it then they may face death threats like other players who have refused. Where do the SFA get their permission to make the decision. It is pretty clear from this thread that this is not a straightforward matter in terms of football fans.

wookie70
03-11-2016, 06:41 PM
I know it really isn't a subject for many that should be satirised but the Poppy Watch site above is very funny.

easty
03-11-2016, 06:50 PM
It isn't a bad idea but you are still potentially putting a player(employee) in a position he is being forced to do something completely against his views. It has nothing to do with his employment and if they refused to do it then they may face death threats like other players who have refused. Where do the SFA get their permission to make the decision. It is pretty clear from this thread that this is not a straightforward matter in terms of football fans.

It was actually just him saying that the row over it is overshadowing the meaning, that I agreed with. I think temporary tattoos on their hands would look a bit stupid and ****.

Scouse Hibee
03-11-2016, 06:54 PM
Interesting to discover that the EDL climbed the FIFA HQ building 5 years ago with a banner reading:

"English Defence League. How dare*Fifa*disrespect our war dead and wounded. Support our troops"


If that's not a indication of the politicisation of the emblem, not sure what is.


The only thing I have ever taken from anything those EDL erseholes have ever said or done is that everything they do is to satisfy their lust for confrontation and antagonism.

bingo70
03-11-2016, 07:20 PM
The only thing I have ever taken from anything those EDL erseholes have ever said or done is that everything they do is to satisfy their lust for confrontation and antagonism.

Scouse you said earlier that poppies aren't political and I get that argument but would you agree that some people's refusing to wear them might be for political reasons?

I know it's not strictly relevant to this game as he's Irish but when you look at the stick James McLean has taken for not wearing one (I'm sure you've seen the open letter he sent) I think that although the intentions of wearing poppies may not be political it opens an inevitable debate, and that's what I think FIFA are trying to avoid.

beensaidbefore
03-11-2016, 07:21 PM
What pisses me off about this whole thing is we are acting like spoilt little brats. We asked the question, were given an answer, we didn't like the answer, so now we are throwing a tantrum. If we knew we were always going to wear it, why ask in the first place?

If we are going to ignore the rules, we may as well just start doing whatever we want.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2016, 07:30 PM
I know it really isn't a subject for many that should be satirised but the Poppy Watch site above is very funny.

They get QPR mixed up with the Thes at one point, so they're not completely clued up with the fitba world - only partly: https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/793087284081991687

Scouse Hibee
03-11-2016, 07:36 PM
Scouse you said earlier that poppies aren't political and I get that argument but would you agree that some people's refusing to wear them might be for political reasons?

I know it's not strictly relevant to this game as he's Irish but when you look at the stick James McLean has taken for not wearing one (I'm sure you've seen the open letter he sent) I think that although the intentions of wearing poppies may not be political it opens an inevitable debate, and that's what I think FIFA are trying to avoid.

Bingo, you may call it a political reason for someone refusing or deciding not to wear one. I on the other hand would call it personal reasons for either not agreeing with what a symbol stands for or the cause it supports. That may well be because I view politics as a vehicle that far too many people try to atribute other peoples feelings to. Granted many may feel my view is too simplistic, but the opposite of that is that I feel far too many people want to dress something up far beyond what it actually is. For me a poppy is a symbol of remembrance and is as relevant as a minutes applause that we all too often participate in at football matches. Nothing more and nothing less.

Mr White
03-11-2016, 07:41 PM
When you've got the pm commenting on the situation with fifa it's a hard sell to say that it's not a symbol with political interest behind it imo. Maybe it's just easier to claim there's no politics involved if you agree with the particular politics in question.

jacomo
03-11-2016, 08:32 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PVBl6BU.png Fatty Foulkes = classless fud.

Wow. That fat b*****d exploiting the poppy for point scoring? Again?

He's got neither class, dignity nor self awareness.

jacomo
03-11-2016, 08:34 PM
The clincher for me was when I read earlier that FIFA allowed the Republic of Ireland players to have a commemorative symbol on their shirts earlier this year to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

I don't see how they can justify allowing that but then ban the English and Scottish players from wearing a poppy on their shirts.

Fair point.

Bostonhibby
03-11-2016, 08:39 PM
The only thing I have ever taken from anything those EDL erseholes have ever said or done is that everything they do is to satisfy their lust for confrontation and antagonism.
Agree, poor man's football hooligans, loads of noise but if they were any good at defence they would never have allowed Iceland to score those goals [emoji6]

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

jacomo
03-11-2016, 08:40 PM
A poppy is not a political symbol never has been and never will be.

I hope it becomes depoliticised again in the future, but it certainly is now.

The tabloids will be jumping on this, and accusing anyone who agrees with FIFA's stance as 'unpatriotic'.

This year marks 100 years since the Somme. I'm frankly disgusted by the exploitation of a symbol of remembrance for political gain.

blackpoolhibs
03-11-2016, 08:42 PM
I will wear a poppy, as i have done for years. What i dont understand is why is it so important NOW that football should have them, when it appears we managed for years to go without this and just have a minutes silence on the nearest day? :confused:

High-On-Hibs
03-11-2016, 08:44 PM
We need a referendum on FIFA. They are trampling all over our British patriotic rights! :grr:

The sooner we leave FIFA, the better!

:soapbox:

Bostonhibby
03-11-2016, 08:48 PM
Wow. That fat b*****d exploiting the poppy for point scoring? Again?

He's got neither class, dignity nor self awareness.

Good to hear the wee man continues in his unflinching support of the British military, not just when he's on expenses or thrashing about in the hope that he might undermine one of them :wink:

We should be grateful that not only is he a yam, but he is the one that spoke up for Romanov.

17588

TheReg!
03-11-2016, 09:09 PM
If the SFA showed the same level of interest in sorting out our game as they seem to have over wearing a poppy on a shirt, Scottish football might not be the shambles it is.

My great Uncle was 17 when he died in the Somme and even though I never knew him, I always think of him on rememberence day. A tragic waste of life.



I'm like many on here about the poppy though. Sadly it's been hijacked by the poppy mafia who's only interest is confronting those who choose not to recognise it. Very sad indeed. I haven't worn one since I was a kid.

Lest we forget many say. We'll the problem is successive UK governments have forgotten the tragic loss of life in the 2 world wars. They have remembered and learned nothing. The unnecessary wars in the Falklands and Iraq are examples of that. If you were a cynic you could say what's the point in remembering?

Unnecessary war in the Falklands???? Really?
Iraq and Afghanistan were totally unnecessary but the Falklands?

heid the baw
03-11-2016, 11:11 PM
It's no secret that the poppy has been heavily politicized since around 2001. It's original purpose was to display a sign of respect to fallen soldiers fighting for their country and also to raise funding to help injured and traumatized veterans. Now it's used to stir up support for illegal and immoral wars. The Blair administration used it as a tool for getting the public onside with their wicked plans. Of course, the public fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Whenever they want to bash on with something hugely controversal that will result in the deaths of thousands, they can always rely on good ole patriotism to suck in the sheep. Worked for the Nazi's and has been used as an effective tool ever since.

I'll wear the poppy when it actually means something to me again.

There is an interesting parallel with German remembrance. After WW1 the Germans had a peoples day of mourning or Volkstrauertag. The National Socialists changed this in 1936 to Heldengedenktag or day of commemorating heroes. This represented a political shift, overseen by Joseph Goebbels, which moved the day away from remembrance into a worship of militaristic heroes. This is exactly what the far right in this country are doing to this day and its symbolism. Communist countries prefer Mayday parades to achieve the same ends.

My own view is wear it if you want, but also don't be afraid to speak out against the rise of poppy outrage because it will end up hijacking the original, well intentioned, purpose of remembrance.

NAE NOOKIE
03-11-2016, 11:16 PM
The arrogance of British FAs who think their political motivations are inherently "right" and aligned with all other FIFA member countries is laughable.

Its not political

NAE NOOKIE
03-11-2016, 11:28 PM
Sorry, but this crap gets right on my titz. Please inform us of these people with an agenda. The fact is that over the past 20/25 years or so, the politics of wearing/not wearing a poppy has been weighted heavily on the side of the promoters of wearing one. Every year, media outlets always manage to find someone to rip into for not wearing one at some event or another. The short-lived BBC policy (everyone on live Tv had to wear a red poppy) was rightly criticised by many as 'poppy fascism.' FIFA are correct to continue to highlight their policy of no symbols on national shirts - look at all the possible images/logos/whatevers which could have been paraded on shirts in the last few years.
This is a non-story, just as it was in 2011 when FIFA told Scotland, Wales and England they shouldn't have shirts with embossed poppies on them. They got round that by wearing removable ones on their sleeves. I have nothing against anyone wearing one but I never wear a poppy.

It is a fact that over the last few years there has been a certain element that have tried to get the poppy seen as a symbol of British imperialism and as a symbol of the glorification of war. British soldiers have taken part in military campaigns that were little more than brutal colonial oppression over the centuries, including in Ireland ....... but that was not their decision any more than the soldiers killed in the two world wars .... the poppy is purely and simply a symbol worn in remembrance of those who have served this country and paid for it with their lives.

If an Irish player refuses to wear a poppy shirt then I respect that right, because for him his country was on the receiving end of oppression and why would he want to show respect for the armed forces used to carry out that oppression.

The point here is that as far as anyone is aware the players want to wear it, the two FAs want the teams to wear it ...... it is NOT a political symbol and therefor it has nothing whatsoever to do with FIFA.

Scouse Hibee
04-11-2016, 07:24 AM
It is a fact that over the last few years there has been a certain element that have tried to get the poppy seen as a symbol of British imperialism and as a symbol of the glorification of war. British soldiers have taken part in military campaigns that were little more than brutal colonial oppression over the centuries, including in Ireland ....... but that was not their decision any more than the soldiers killed in the two world wars .... the poppy is purely and simply a symbol worn in remembrance of those who have served this country and paid for it with their lives.

If an Irish player refuses to wear a poppy shirt then I respect that right, because for him his country was on the receiving end of oppression and why would he want to show respect for the armed forces used to carry out that oppression.

The point here is that as far as anyone is aware the players want to wear it, the two FAs want the teams to wear it ...... it is NOT a political symbol and therefor it has nothing whatsoever to do with FIFA.

Great post.

JimBHibees
04-11-2016, 07:39 AM
Found on Twitter.

17586

This covers most of this year's poppy outrage.

https://t.co/bVm4kokul9

Saw this excellent article on the same site about Rangers and the background to the Scottish cup final. Very good article IMO.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/05/31/the-2016-scottish-cup-final-the-perfect-storm/

CockneyRebel
04-11-2016, 10:02 AM
Saw this excellent article on the same site about Rangers and the background to the Scottish cup final. Very good article IMO.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/05/31/the-2016-scottish-cup-final-the-perfect-storm/

Very well argued article, much more researched and even handed than anything fro the meeja.

Moulin Yarns
04-11-2016, 10:05 AM
Very well argued article, much more researched and even handed than anything fro the meeja.

On the surface, until you realise Bella is a Hibee :wink:

Mr White
04-11-2016, 10:05 AM
it has nothing whatsoever to do with FIFA.

A qualifying match for the FIFA World Cup has quite a lot to do with FIFA.

Andy74
04-11-2016, 10:10 AM
It is a fact that over the last few years there has been a certain element that have tried to get the poppy seen as a symbol of British imperialism and as a symbol of the glorification of war. British soldiers have taken part in military campaigns that were little more than brutal colonial oppression over the centuries, including in Ireland ....... but that was not their decision any more than the soldiers killed in the two world wars .... the poppy is purely and simply a symbol worn in remembrance of those who have served this country and paid for it with their lives.

If an Irish player refuses to wear a poppy shirt then I respect that right, because for him his country was on the receiving end of oppression and why would he want to show respect for the armed forces used to carry out that oppression.

The point here is that as far as anyone is aware the players want to wear it, the two FAs want the teams to wear it ...... it is NOT a political symbol and therefor it has nothing whatsoever to do with FIFA.

You've just pointed out a situation which shows why it can be seen as political. Either way, it is a FIFA match, they have some existing rules and it is sensible for them to not have to judge and make exceptions on a symbol by symbol basis.

CockneyRebel
04-11-2016, 10:15 AM
Bingo, you may call it a political reason for someone refusing or deciding not to wear one. I on the other hand would call it personal reasons for either not agreeing with what a symbol stands for or the cause it supports. That may well be because I view politics as a vehicle that far too many people try to atribute other peoples feelings to. Granted many may feel my view is too simplistic, but the opposite of that is that I feel far too many people want to dress something up far beyond what it actually is. For me a poppy is a symbol of remembrance and is as relevant as a minutes applause that we all too often participate in at football matches. Nothing more and nothing less.

Said much the same on an earlier post. Too many people over analysing the wear/don't wear arguments when it really just boils down to individual choice and personal beliefs.

ronaldo7
04-11-2016, 10:18 AM
Saw this excellent article on the same site about Rangers and the background to the Scottish cup final. Very good article IMO.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/05/31/the-2016-scottish-cup-final-the-perfect-storm/

Great article. Thanks.

Keith_M
04-11-2016, 10:49 AM
http://i.imgur.com/PVBl6BU.png Fatty Foulkes = classless fud.


Totally classless idiot, as is anybody else that uses anything like this for something so trivial as getting one over on your football rivals.

Keith_M
04-11-2016, 10:53 AM
Said much the same on an earlier post. Too many people over analysing the wear/don't wear arguments when it really just boils down to individual choice and personal beliefs.


But it's not, though, is it.

Have you seen the fuss when someone like a Newsreader, Politician or Celebrity is seen on or just before Remembrance day NOT wearing a Poppy?

What about the fuss caused by one footballer refusing to wear one out of principle?



The wearing or not wearing of a Poppy should be an individual choice but has become a stick to beat people with.

Andy74
04-11-2016, 12:30 PM
FIFA beginning action on Ireland's Easter Rising logo.

Pretty Boy
04-11-2016, 12:39 PM
FIFA beginning action on Ireland's Easter Rising logo.

Crazy.

Do nothing for 7 months and then a bit of a fuss kicks off so they take action.

wookie70
04-11-2016, 12:42 PM
Massive Poppy selling presence in Glasgow today. Stalls at stations and in the main shopping streets. Huge commercial exercise which would fit one of the FIFA criteria. However, looking at folk on the street I would guess 10-20% of folk had a poppy displayed. One of the things that annoys me as a Scotland fan is that this is being done, up to the point of a potential points deduction, without any discussion.If the streets of our biggest city which hosts a self proclaimed team of the armed forces and is mobbed by Poppy Sellers chooses generally not to wear them, then why should our national team.

I think this is more about disrespecting FIFA than respecting our fallen servicemen

WeeRussell
04-11-2016, 12:50 PM
I haven't bought a poppy this year yet, but often wear one. When I do, it's absolutely nothing to do with politics or support for the British Army for me. It's purely about remembrance, respect and thanks to those who gave their lives for us.

I have no issue if anyone else does or doesn't want to wear one. It's none of my business. Nor should it be any if FIFA's.

lapsedhibee
04-11-2016, 01:30 PM
I haven't bought a poppy this year yet, but often wear one. When I do, it's absolutely nothing to do with politics or support for the British Army for me. It's purely about remembrance, respect and thanks to those who gave their lives for us.

I have no issue if anyone else does or doesn't want to wear one. It's none of my business. Nor should it be any if FIFA's.

... or the SFA's, or the FA's?

WeeRussell
04-11-2016, 01:43 PM
... or the SFA's, or the FA's?

:agree:

Moulin Yarns
04-11-2016, 01:54 PM
FIFA beginning action on Ireland's Easter Rising logo.

What Easter Rising logo?

Not the one commemorating the birth of their nation?

the one that said Ireland/Eire 1916-2016!!

JimBHibees
04-11-2016, 02:01 PM
What Easter Rising logo?

Not the one commemorating the birth of their nation?

the one that said Ireland/Eire 1916-2016!!

They didnt become independent in 1916

Future17
04-11-2016, 02:43 PM
Crazy.

Do nothing for 7 months and then a bit of a fuss kicks off so they take action.

I could be wrong, but I believe they said they hadn't previously taken action as there had not been a complaint. They have now received a complaint.

Mr White
04-11-2016, 02:48 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe they said they hadn't previously taken action as there had not been a complaint. They have now received a complaint.

Lee Wallace won't be popular in Dublin or Cork.

Geo_1875
04-11-2016, 02:54 PM
Do they give poppies away and ask wearers to remember the fallen?

No. They sell them with donations going to a charitable organisation which looks after survivors of war.

If governments gave as much to ex-servicemen as they do to Olympic athletes and vanity projects it wouldn't be political. As it stands, it is entirely political.

wookie70
04-11-2016, 03:14 PM
Do they give poppies away and ask wearers to remember the fallen?

No. They sell them with donations going to a charitable organisation which looks after survivors of war.

If governments gave as much to ex-servicemen as they do to Olympic athletes and vanity projects it wouldn't be political. As it stands, it is entirely political.

Olympic Athletes are sponsored mostly by the Lottery. Only a third of their funding comes from taxation. I deleted my original post after checking as I thought it all came from the Lotto. IMO looking after servicemen who are hurt in war and funding sport should both be the job of Government and come from general taxation. Using the lottery and charities like Poppy Scotland to fund these essentially means taxing the less well off more. The government spend wildly more on ex servicemen than they do on Olympic Athletes.

During the Afghanistan conflict government was spending more than £500K a week on injured soldiers. I would always want the government to sort this out and not spare any money on getting their employees fit again. However when you look at the cost of war it is horrific. The British Legion turns over £100 Million plus a year. War, even for charities, is big business.

Geo_1875
04-11-2016, 03:44 PM
Olympic Athletes are sponsored mostly by the Lottery. Only a third of their funding comes from taxation. I deleted my original post after checking as I thought it all came from the Lotto. IMO looking after servicemen who are hurt in war and funding sport should both be the job of Government and come from general taxation. Using the lottery and charities like Poppy Scotland to fund these essentially means taxing the less well off more. The government spend wildly more on ex servicemen than they do on Olympic Athletes.

During the Afghanistan conflict government was spending more than £500K a week on injured soldiers. I would always want the government to sort this out and not spare any money on getting their employees fit again. However when you look at the cost of war it is horrific. The British Legion turns over £100 Million plus a year. War, even for charities, is big business.

I know they spend a lot more on ex-servicemen than on Olympic athletes (due to sheer weight of numbers) and that some Olympic athletes are sponsored from Lottery funds (where did the money go before?). Lottery and charitable donations are a tax on the less well-off as they spend proportionately more of disposable income and are generally unable to write off donations for tax purposes. However, I'd rather the government saw our ex-servicemen right before giving money to a bunch of former public school pupils who can run fast or fence or sail.

wookie70
04-11-2016, 04:44 PM
I know they spend a lot more on ex-servicemen than on Olympic athletes (due to sheer weight of numbers) and that some Olympic athletes are sponsored from Lottery funds (where did the money go before?). Lottery and charitable donations are a tax on the less well-off as they spend proportionately more of disposable income and are generally unable to write off donations for tax purposes. However, I'd rather the government saw our ex-servicemen right before giving money to a bunch of former public school pupils who can run fast or fence or sail.

I'd rather we didn't need to spend money on servicemen's injuries in the first place by not sending them into wars that are illegal or nothing to do with us. That wasn't the issue in the World Wars and that is why the poppy was pretty much universally seen as a symbol of remembrance and respect. Long gone now, in my opinion of course.

hibsbollah
04-11-2016, 05:04 PM
FIFA beginning action on Ireland's Easter Rising logo.

...as a direct result of the UK Govt ministers involved in the poppy case using Ireland as an example of 'one rule for them, another for us'. This result? Ireland will get a hefty fine from FIFA and the UK govt looks like what it is, mean spirited, childish and with respect, Lee Wallace-like.

660
04-11-2016, 07:20 PM
You have to question exactly what type of lunatic creates something like this.

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/794610747179470848

Speedy
04-11-2016, 08:34 PM
It is a fact that over the last few years there has been a certain element that have tried to get the poppy seen as a symbol of British imperialism and as a symbol of the glorification of war. British soldiers have taken part in military campaigns that were little more than brutal colonial oppression over the centuries, including in Ireland ....... but that was not their decision any more than the soldiers killed in the two world wars .... the poppy is purely and simply a symbol worn in remembrance of those who have served this country and paid for it with their lives.

If an Irish player refuses to wear a poppy shirt then I respect that right, because for him his country was on the receiving end of oppression and why would he want to show respect for the armed forces used to carry out that oppression.

The point here is that as far as anyone is aware the players want to wear it, the two FAs want the teams to wear it ...... it is NOT a political symbol and therefor it has nothing whatsoever to do with FIFA.

There is an expectation that the players should wear it. That isn't right in my opinion.

monktonharp
04-11-2016, 08:51 PM
It is a fact that over the last few years there has been a certain element that have tried to get the poppy seen as a symbol of British imperialism and as a symbol of the glorification of war. British soldiers have taken part in military campaigns that were little more than brutal colonial oppression over the centuries, including in Ireland ....... but that was not their decision any more than the soldiers killed in the two world wars .... the poppy is purely and simply a symbol worn in remembrance of those who have served this country and paid for it with their lives.

If an Irish player refuses to wear a poppy shirt then I respect that right, because for him his country was on the receiving end of oppression and why would he want to show respect for the armed forces used to carry out that oppression.

The point here is that as far as anyone is aware the players want to wear it, the two FAs want the teams to wear it ...... it is NOT a political symbol and therefor it has nothing whatsoever to do with FIFA. a certain "element" being who? one of these rag-tag commie mobs, or some socialist minded do-gooders? I also think there is a certain "element" that think we are all drones,ready to do as they say for the sake of our "country":rolleyes:

monktonharp
04-11-2016, 08:53 PM
Said much the same on an earlier post. Too many people over analysing the wear/don't wear arguments when it really just boils down to individual choice and personal beliefs.that , to me is a much fairer comment. do or don't, you decide

Sir David Gray
04-11-2016, 08:58 PM
...as a direct result of the UK Govt ministers involved in the poppy case using Ireland as an example of 'one rule for them, another for us'. This result? Ireland will get a hefty fine from FIFA and the UK govt looks like what it is, mean spirited, childish and with respect, Lee Wallace-like.

What do you expect them to do when they were being told by FIFA that they couldn't do something because it would be deemed political and yet there had been another example very close to home where another nation had got away without any sanction despite their football players displaying a political symbol on their jerseys?

FIFA should not have waited 8 months to take action against Ireland but the fact the FAI has now been charged is not the fault of the UK Government.

I would expect anyone in their situation to highlight similar cases of hypocrisy and double standards.

monktonharp
04-11-2016, 09:08 PM
I'd rather we didn't need to spend money on servicemen's injuries in the first place by not sending them into wars that are illegal or nothing to do with us. That wasn't the issue in the World Wars and that is why the poppy was pretty much universally seen as a symbol of remembrance and respect. Long gone now, in my opinion of course.I agree to a certain point. the ww1 is the reason that irks me, when Haig/Kitchener etc are all known to have been buffoons prepared to send our boys , and they were boys! into an unbelievable situation trying to gain a yard a day while they were cut down by machine guns as they got out of trenches. that ******* Kitchener was also quoted as saying ...if we lose 40 thousand today, the Gerry will lose 50 thousand. all this because a Serbian assassinated an Austrian prince. don't get me started on the Lady Haig thing!

givescotlandfreedom
04-11-2016, 09:44 PM
You have to question exactly what type of lunatic creates something like this.

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/794610747179470848

One on the wind up ;)

Dashing Bob S
05-11-2016, 09:17 AM
Why do governments, clubs and associations have to bother with this? Sell the poppies, let the individuals decide, instead of this crass social engineering.

Moulin Yarns
05-11-2016, 10:51 AM
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14650274_10209464368299784_3292691536809708731_n.j pg?oh=bde79214e129918d95e451b9abaaf860&oe=5891985F

Carheenlea
05-11-2016, 11:22 AM
Why do governments, clubs and associations have to bother with this? Sell the poppies, let the individuals decide, instead of this crass social engineering.

I took my young daughter in to see the memorial garden in the War Memorial during a walk this morning in my home town, tried to explain in simple terms to a 5 year old the reasons why people quietly reflect and remember at this time year, and then let her leave a small cross in the garden. It all felt a million miles away from the circus now many wish it to be.

The Harp Awakes
05-11-2016, 01:22 PM
Unnecessary war in the Falklands???? Really?
Iraq and Afghanistan were totally unnecessary but the Falklands?

900 lives lost and cost to the UK of £1.5 billion. Do you think it was worth it? A war over a tiny piece of land at the other side of the world with a population of 1800. Thatcher was intent in confrontation over the Falklands for party political reasons and was delighted when the Argentinians landed in South Georgia. Her words Rejoice, Rejoice on the steps of No 10 still ring in my ears. Rejoice over what? The death of 600+ service men from a 3rd world nation and 300 from the UK?

Successive UK Governments stone walled Argentina on any talks on sovereignty. Ironic when you think that Hong Kong was gladly handed over to China some years later without a tear shed let alone blood.

Nakedmanoncrack
05-11-2016, 08:43 PM
Went to the local pub this afternoon - not one customer wearing a poppy, I was so outraged I could barely face drinking my pint, but I managed somehow. Fortunately Chelsea v Everton came on and I got my fix from every player''s shirt, followed by interviews with various immaculately briefed poppy wearing Spanish, Italian, French managers, such "respect" & "remembrance", so proud.

Carheenlea
05-11-2016, 09:15 PM
To see the Ayr mascot, someone dressed as a panda by looks of it, standing with their players round centre circle with giant comedy head bowed, looked ridiculous and made a bit of a mockery of the minutes silence pre-match.

monktonharp
05-11-2016, 09:41 PM
To see the Ayr mascot, someone dressed as a panda by looks of it, standing with their players round centre circle with giant comedy head bowed, looked ridiculous and made a bit of a mockery of the minutes silence pre-match.get real there's a man inside that suit . he paid his respects. would you have preferred the paras to absail into the ground?

ronaldo7
05-11-2016, 09:42 PM
Went to the local pub this afternoon - not one customer wearing a poppy, I was so outraged I could barely face drinking my pint, but I managed somehow. Fortunately Chelsea v Everton came on and I got my fix from every player''s shirt, followed by interviews with various immaculately briefed poppy wearing Spanish, Italian, French managers, such "respect" & "remembrance", so proud.

I deliberately checked out the clientele in my local. Not one person wearing a poppy. I saw a couple of poppy boxes on the bar though, so maybe people are putting their cash into the boxes instead of being out and proud.:dunno:

Nakedmanoncrack
05-11-2016, 09:44 PM
To see the Ayr mascot, someone dressed as a panda by looks of it, standing with their players round centre circle with giant comedy head bowed, looked ridiculous and made a bit of a mockery of the minutes silence pre-match.

Very apt, nothing says remembrance like a giant panda bowing his comedy head, except perhaps a moron on social medial issuing expletive laden abuse in the name of the fallen "lest we forget", sums up the whole charade.

Carheenlea
05-11-2016, 10:03 PM
get real there's a man inside that suit . he paid his respects. would you have preferred the paras to absail into the ground?

You're missing my point a wee bit.

easty
11-11-2016, 08:43 AM
Fifa - "we didnae say you couldn't wear poppies"

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37941626

CentreLine
11-11-2016, 09:16 AM
While I have no problem honouring the heroic people who lost their lives during the great war - I don`t wish to see people like Theresa May or the unionist media making political capital out of it with all this "British" dross they are trying to ram down our throats because of Brexit and fear of Scottish independence.

Yes agreed. It really annoys me that the war memorial stuff, which I'm all for in principal, seems to ignore the contribution to the war effort by Poles, Africans, Indians, Arabs, Canadians, Australians, Americans, New Zeelanders etc. Etc.

How come it always has to be so very British? I do wear a poppy but don't tell me it's not political.

Bristolhibby
11-11-2016, 09:24 AM
Yes agreed. It really annoys me that the war memorial stuff, which I'm all for in principal, seems to ignore the contribution to the war effort by Poles, Africans, Indians, Arabs, Canadians, Australians, Americans, New Zeelanders etc. Etc.

How come it always has to be so very British? I do wear a poppy but don't tell me it's not political.

ANZAC day in Australia and NZ. Memorial Day (&Veterans Day) in the States. The Germans have Volkstrauertag. The Russians have Victory Day.

We just happen to live in Britain.

J

Peevemor
11-11-2016, 09:26 AM
Yes agreed. It really annoys me that the war memorial stuff, which I'm all for in principal, seems to ignore the contribution to the war effort by Poles, Africans, Indians, Arabs, Canadians, Australians, Americans, New Zeelanders etc. Etc.

How come it always has to be so very British? I do wear a poppy but don't tell me it's not political.

It's a public holiday in France.

4WAW
11-11-2016, 10:05 AM
It's a public holiday in France.

Same here in Poland. As usual, there will be a parade in Warsaw at the memorial with the eternal flame. Haven't seen any poppies yet ......
For the pedants, it's more about commemorating those who died fighting for freedom rather than combatants in all wars, it is also Poland's national day. It will apply to those pilots, soldiers and civilians who died to free the country from the Nazis as well, so the British, French, Canadians, Americans, etc will all be part of the commemoration.

CentreLine
11-11-2016, 10:57 AM
ANZAC day in Australia and NZ. Memorial Day (&Veterans Day) in the States. The Germans have Volkstrauertag. The Russians have Victory Day.

We just happen to live in Britain.

J

I think that just makes my point exactly. Yes each of these countries remembers THEIR war dead (for the Germans it is good to see they now feel they can). It is supposed to be an inclusive thing. I would argue it was up until recently but for me the poppy in the U.K. has become a badge of honour rather that of respect for all. Sometimes we take things too far and FORGET the core message. Ironic or what?
The very fact we are having this discussion proves it has become political regardless of how we may feel as individuals.

Keith_M
11-11-2016, 11:14 AM
Vienna was captured by the Soviets near the end of WWII.

In memory of the liberation* of the city, the Soviets built a Memorial to the brave Soviet Soldiers in Schwarzenbergplatz

Austria has long considered the memorial to be ridiculously large, politically motivated and inappropriate. However, because it is (allegedly) a tribute to dead soldiers, the statue is still there and is protected from being removed by Austrian Law.

However, it's the only major monument in Vienna that is not lit up at night... and the Austrians built an enormous fountain directly in front of it that is lit up at night.


To me, that's a perfect example of the sad politicking and point scoring that goes on in so many countries and is disrespectful to the victims of war. We see similar petty arguments in the UK every year around this time.






* For a long time, they liked to pretend they were invaded by the evil Nazis, instead of the real truth, that they actually were the evil Nazis.

The Baldmans Comb
11-11-2016, 11:37 AM
Roll call on the bus home last night was 2 poppy wearers out of 25 people and the roll call in the pub was 1 out of 15.

I had respect for the 3 poppy wearers and respect and admiration for the other 37 non poppy wearers.

Pat 0-7
11-11-2016, 11:48 AM
Vienna was captured by the Soviets near the end of WWII.

In memory of the liberation* of the city, the Soviets built a Memorial to the brave Soviet Soldiers in Schwarzenbergplatz

Austria has long considered the memorial to be ridiculously large, politically motivated and inappropriate. However, because it is (allegedly) a tribute to dead soldiers, the statue is still there and is protected from being removed by Austrian Law.

However, it's the only major monument in Vienna that is not lit up at night... and the Austrians built an enormous fountain directly in front of it that is lit up at night.


To me, that's a perfect example of the sad politicking and point scoring that goes on in so many countries and is disrespectful to the victims of war. We see similar petty arguments in the UK every year around this time.






* For a long time, they liked to pretend they were invaded by the evil Nazis, instead of the real truth, that they actually were the evil Nazis.
Pretty sure the fountain was there first, late 19th century. Agree about not lighting up the Russian Memorial though.

cabbageandribs1875
11-11-2016, 12:00 PM
not worn a poppy for approx 10 years now, i still donate in the wee cans every year, i still cry for those brave men/women/children every year, i don't think i have to wear a poppy just so others can see if i'm remembering all the fallen or not

nellio
11-11-2016, 02:23 PM
Fifa - "we didnae say you couldn't wear poppies"

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37941626

Wales aren't wearing them for fear of a points penalty which is what they were told the possible consequences could be when they asked directly if their players could wear poppies. What a Joke.

InchHibby
11-11-2016, 04:16 PM
get real there's a man inside that suit . he paid his respects. would you have preferred the paras to absail into the ground?

Yea right, you'll be telling us next there's nae Santa clause :wink

worcesterhibby
11-11-2016, 04:48 PM
Jeez Andy Gillies just got hold of the Casual with Poppy thing and added a Hibs logo and used it as the main image on "Hibs News" on Facebook ....cringeworthy

Canon Hannan
11-11-2016, 04:58 PM
It's quite obvious you're not sure about anythung regarding the poppy,it's a symbol of remembrance nothing more,nothing less despite how protagonists like yourself try to muddy the waters.

If it was purely for remembrance why do SEVCO and their supporters embark on a huge display of Britishness with this every year?

White poppy for me now. That is remembrance while demanding peace. I don't like how the Tories, British elite, EDL, SEVCO and more force this on us. Even ex soldiers have had enough and don't wear the red poppy. It is a political tool now unfortunately.

NAE NOOKIE
11-11-2016, 05:15 PM
If it was purely for remembrance why do SEVCO and their supporters embark on a huge display of Britishness with this every year?

White poppy for me now. That is remembrance while demanding peace. I don't like how the Tories, British elite, EDL, SEVCO and more force this on us. Even ex soldiers have had enough and don't wear the red poppy. It is a political tool now unfortunately.

This is exactly what I was on about when I mentioned certain elements politicising the poppy, or at least giving it a meaning it has never had for the vast majority of people ..... the Huns and many right wing centric bodies in this country want people to think that remembrance day and the poppy are celebrations of 'Britishness' and a display of 'patriotism' ... as a result it creates a backlash from people who don't want to be associated with the 'rule Britannia' brigade ... in normal circumstances that would include me.

But I for one don't want to allow that to happen .... I wear my poppy out of respect for all war dead ( including my uncle ) and for me that is all it means, it is not a comment on the rights or wrongs of any conflict this country has been involved in and I am utterly positive that outlook applies to the vast majority of those who wear it.

660
11-11-2016, 05:18 PM
This is exactly what I was on about when I mentioned certain elements politicising the poppy, or at least giving it a meaning it has never had for the vast majority of people ..... the Huns and many right wing centric bodies in this country want people to think that remembrance day and the poppy are celebrations of 'Britishness' and a display of 'patriotism' ... as a result it creates a backlash from people who don't want to be associated with the 'rule Britannia' brigade ... in normal circumstances that would include me.

But I for one don't want to allow that to happen .... I wear my poppy out of respect for all war dead ( including my uncle ) and for me that is all it means, it is not a comment on the rights or wrongs of any conflict this country has been involved in and I am utterly positive that outlook applies to the vast majority of those who wear it.

You can't apply that thinking to everyone who wears a poppy just because it's what you think.

If you were cynical, you'd think the FA were using what is a relatively trivial matter to smear FIFA.

Scouse Hibee
11-11-2016, 05:23 PM
If it was purely for remembrance why do SEVCO and their supporters embark on a huge display of Britishness with this every year?

White poppy for me now. That is remembrance while demanding peace. I don't like how the Tories, British elite, EDL, SEVCO and more force this on us. Even ex soldiers have had enough and don't wear the red poppy. It is a political tool now unfortunately.

I couldn't give a flying what SEVCO and their supporters attach themselves to,their beliefs are so mixed up that half of them haven't got a clue what they are supposed to be. The day I let the likes of them tarnish my own thoughts will be the day I am in a box.

Canon Hannan
11-11-2016, 05:32 PM
This is exactly what I was on about when I mentioned certain elements politicising the poppy, or at least giving it a meaning it has never had for the vast majority of people ..... the Huns and many right wing centric bodies in this country want people to think that remembrance day and the poppy are celebrations of 'Britishness' and a display of 'patriotism' ... as a result it creates a backlash from people who don't want to be associated with the 'rule Britannia' brigade ... in normal circumstances that would include me.

But I for one don't want to allow that to happen .... I wear my poppy out of respect for all war dead ( including my uncle ) and for me that is all it means, it is not a comment on the rights or wrongs of any conflict this country has been involved in and I am utterly positive that outlook applies to the vast majority of those who wear it.

Very well put Nae Nookie.

Mikey
23-11-2016, 05:30 PM
Now they're having a go at Wales and NI because their fans wore poppies........


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38077727

Keith_M
23-11-2016, 06:01 PM
Pretty sure the fountain was there first, late 19th century. Agree about not lighting up the Russian Memorial though.


If that's correct, then fair enough. It was a local that told me that was why they built it.

SunshineOnLeith
23-11-2016, 06:38 PM
It would be really funny if Scotland and England both got big points deductions, and England didn't qualify as a result.