The ref. Alan Muir.

[matty_f]

Took his incompetence to new levels today. Never had control of the game, baffling decisions and took an age to take action against Dunfermline players who were kicking McGinn every time he got the ball whilst getting his card out as fast as he could to book McGinn.

Considering the penalty he missed for our play off against Falkirk, her managed to spot an instrument nobody else did for their organdy, yet missed a blatant penalty on Boyle.

You get pelters for saying it, but he's either completely incompetent as a ref, or very competent as a cheat.

[Mr White]

her managed to spot an instrument nobody else did for their organdy,

Sorry for the hijack matty but that auto-correct is a beauty if imagined in the voice of Ronnie Barker :greengrin

[matty_f]

Sorry for the hijack matty but that auto-correct is a beauty if imagined in the voice of Ronnie Barker :greengrin

:faf: I meant 'infringement'. I hate auto correct but I'm not changing the post because I can now hear Ronnie Barker saying it! And 'he' rather than 'her' at the start of the sentence.

[Dashing Bob S]

Took his incompetence to new levels today. Never had control of the game, baffling decisions and took an age to take action against Dunfermline players who were kicking McGinn every time he got the ball whilst getting his card out as fast as he could to book McGinn.

Considering the penalty he missed for our play off against Falkirk, her managed to spot an instrument nobody else did for their organdy, yet missed a blatant penalty on Boyle.

You get pelters for saying it, but he's either completely incompetent as a ref, or very competent as a cheat.

He's both. He was biased today, and when he forgot to be biased he was simply crap. Like all the other masonic mediocrities in that league, his mouth, when it wasn't constantly on his whistle, was running over his own skin. It was vainly trying to salve the deep wounds we inflicted upon him on the 21st of May.

[B.H.F.C]

The penalty was out and out cheating. He just invented it. Not a single Dunfermline player even claimed for a foul.

And the decision not to send the boy off for the penalty he gave us was a shocker. Now I know the rule has changed a bit, but I don't think jumping on someone's back constitutes a genuine attempt to play the ball.

[Carheenlea]

While we can't do much to prevent incompetent refereeing, we can raise our standards to that what we saw in the second half today, and prevent those baffling refereeing displays having an influence on our fate.

[Real Emerald]

It was as if him and the officials had set out with a plan to make sure Hibs didn't win. Some absolutely baffling decisions against us by him and especially the stand side linesman. He had a better second half but that wouldn't have been hard.

Hibs have to rise above this though and start putting teams away, we eventually did today so well done 🍻

[calumhibee1]

While we can't do much to prevent incompetent refereeing, we can raise our standards to that what we saw in the second half today, and prevent those baffling refereeing displays having an influence on our fate.

I hate hearing this. Whether we play well or not we deserve to have referees give us a fair crack of the whip.

[Bishop Hibee]

Awful refereeing display for all the reasons above. McGinn booked and then Pars players do similar with no booking. Clueless.

[InchHibby]

The penalty was out and out cheating. He just invented it. Not a single Dunfermline player even claimed for a foul.

And the decision not to send the boy off for the penalty he gave us was a shocker. Now I know the rule has changed a bit, but I don't think jumping on someone's back constitutes a genuine attempt to play the ball.

I agree, and the linesman was making his way back up the pitch, total nonsense of a decision.

[cabbageandribs1875]

shinnie should have got booked for that foul near the touchline, baffling why he didn't give a penalty for that push on boyle in the box, no consistency

[allezsauzee]

The refs we've had in the championship are so bad that I'm actually pleased when we get Craig Thomson now.

[Wee Effen Bee]

Took his incompetence to new levels today. Never had control of the game, baffling decisions and took an age to take action against Dunfermline players who were kicking McGinn every time he got the ball whilst getting his card out as fast as he could to book McGinn.

Considering the penalty he missed for our play off against Falkirk, her managed to spot an instrument nobody else did for their organdy, yet missed a blatant penalty on Boyle.

You get pelters for saying it, but he's either completely incompetent as a ref, or very competent as a cheat.
10/10 for the (un)intentional musically-related link Matty. Awesome!:aok:

[northstandhibby]

He's both. He was biased today, and when he forgot to be biased he was simply crap. Like all the other masonic mediocrities in that league, his mouth, when it wasn't constantly on his whistle, was running over his own skin. It was vainly trying to salve the deep wounds we inflicted upon him on the 21st of May.

:top marks

We've all seen shockers in the past like Bob Valentine and Brian McGinley but this lot are taking the biscuit.

I hate people like muir who go on to the pitch knowing already they are going to referee the game in a thoroughly biased and corrupt manner.

Thankfully we bossed the second half and went on to deservedly get the three very valuable points today.

Well done the Hi bees.

GGTTH

[Argylehibby]

The penalty was out and out cheating. He just invented it. Not a single Dunfermline player even claimed for a foul.

And the decision not to send the boy off for the penalty he gave us was a shocker. Now I know the rule has changed a bit, but I don't think jumping on someone's back constitutes a genuine attempt to play the ball.

Said that at the time too. He got far more wrong than he got right and most of the time to our disadvantage.

[AndyB_70]

I was extremely baffled by him today. Failed to give us a free kick for a blatant push on Keatings then give them a penalty for a mysterious push.
Absolute clown of a ref.

[Hiber-nation]

Compare the assault on Holt in the box last week that we didn't get to the pen they got today. There must be a reason why these things keep happening.

[GreenCastle]

The penalty for them was a farce.

Stevenson should have had a corner 2nd half never got it.

The push on Boyle - should have been a pen. Saw a clip on twitter and looks worse that I realised.

Player should have had a ref for foul and goal scoring opportunity (yes I know rules have changed but you can still get a ref for this type of challenge).

The Pars chance just after they scored - 2 feet off but plays on for a 1v1 but luckily the hibs keeper saved it or it would have been 2-0.

Numberous fouls he got wrong for both teams - they didn't get things they should have and 1st half he may have been a rangers fan in disguise.

Finally allowing a player to tie their laces - didn't realise that was a rule to stop play.

[Famous Fiver]

Follicly challenged assistant referee is a Jambo - big time. Fact

[hibbysam]

It doesn't get any better further down we go. I was at the Preston-Montrose game today, 3 red cards, one after the final whistle for a sub telling the ref 'that was a disgrace' from 30 yards, straight red. He blew the full time whistle in the huff due to a shout from a back garden before running down the tunnel barging past players. Embarrassing the standard of people getting badges in this country.

[GreenCastle]

It doesn't get any better further down we go. I was at the Preston-Montrose game today, 3 red cards, one after the final whistle for a sub telling the ref 'that was a disgrace' from 30 yards, straight red. He blew the full time whistle in the huff due to a shout from a back garden before running down the tunnel barging past players. Embarrassing the standard of people getting badges in this country.

The SFA are a joke..

Jobs for the boys at all levels..

The refs are useles also..

Don't forget the national team are useless also..

The game in this country needs sorted !

[Jonnyboy]

Each week I go along thinking the standard of refereeing has surely bottomed out but then along came Alan Muir, who managed to plumb new depths. He was so bad today it bordered on the farcical. No wonder SJM lost the rag and chopped their player down. Yes it was a yellow but up to that point and on a good number of occasions thereafter it was open season on SJM with the Pars players seeming to take turn about in kicking him

[JimBHibees]

Muir blatantly cheated in the playoff and personally am delighted he probably played a huge part in us winning the cup by not having a game on the Tuesday before the final. Thanks Alan. :thumbsup:

[frazeHFC]

Absolutely shocking refereeing today. I don't think a trip counts in his views of a foul. Counted 3 (including one in the box on Boyle) that he never gave. Their penalty too wtf. One of the worst refereeing performances I can remember and that's saying something with the shockers we've seen.

[JimBHibees]

It is blatantly obvious there is no monitoring at all of referee performance in this country. Same faces making the same mistakes every week. Definite cheats in there also.

[emerald green]

It's basically the same s*** just about every week whether Hibs win, lose or draw.

I'll say it again. The standard of refereeing is woeful. Why that is the case has been debated to death on here. Theories put forward range from Hibs fans are being paranoid to accusations of outright cheating and corruption on the part of referees and their assistants, and also their paymasters.

What really is the truth of the matter? Moreover, what can be done to improve the standard of refereeing? Not just for Hibs sake, but for the good of the game generally?

[Jonnyboy]

It's basically the same s*** just about every week whether Hibs win, lose or draw.

I'll say it again. The standard of refereeing is woeful. Why that is the case has been debated to death on here. Theories put forward range from Hibs fans are being paranoid to accusations of outright cheating and corruption on the part of referees and their assistants, and also their paymasters.

What really is the truth of the matter? Moreover, what can be done to improve the standard of refereeing? Not just for Hibs sake, but for the good of the game generally?

Caught a wee bit of Off The Ball on the way home. Scott McDonald was asked who his favourite refs were and he came up with Steven McLean, Willie Collum and Craig Thomson. Gordon (I personally witnessed all the Rangers players being kicked to the ground) Waddell mentioned Bobby Madden who, for me is the best of the bunch at the moment.

[Libby Hibby]

It's basically the same s*** just about every week whether Hibs win, lose or draw.

I'll say it again. The standard of refereeing is woeful. Why that is the case has been debated to death on here. Theories put forward range from Hibs fans are being paranoid to accusations of outright cheating and corruption on the part of referees and their assistants, and also their paymasters.

What really is the truth of the matter? Moreover, what can be done to improve the standard of refereeing? Not just for Hibs sake, but for the good of the game generally?

I think the answer to your question is simple, bring back the Maltese refs, the weekend they came over, absolutely zero controversy

[Stax]

Each week I go along thinking the standard of refereeing has surely bottomed out but then along came Alan Muir, who managed to plumb new depths. He was so bad today it bordered on the farcical. No wonder SJM lost the rag and chopped their player down. Yes it was a yellow but up to that point and on a good number of occasions thereafter it was open season on SJM with the Pars players seeming to take turn about in kicking him
Dunfermline's game plan seemed to me to basically kick everyone & break up play but the amount of "attention" McGinn received was ridiculous. I couldn't believe how poor Muir was today but in the last 15 mins some of the decisions he gave against Dunfermline were as baffling imo. A poor referee that lost control of the game early and got even more out of his depth as the game went on,.

[Sir David Gray]

How he missed the shove on Boyle in the second half was astonishing.

It was one of the clearest penalties you're likely to see.

[marinello59]

I think the answer to your question is simple, bring back the Maltese refs, the weekend they came over, absolutely zero controversy

That's because there was a lot of goodwill towards them before they even arrived here. That wouldn't be the case if they were regular officials, there faults would come under the same scrutiny as Scottish refs.

[Iggy Pope]

Caught a wee bit of Off The Ball on the way home. Scott McDonald was asked who his favourite refs were and he came up with Steven McLean, Willie Collum and Craig Thomson. Gordon (I personally witnessed all the Rangers players being kicked to the ground) Waddell mentioned Bobby Madden who, for me is the best of the bunch at the moment.

I caught a bit of that on the way back too. And the pair of farts that present it cannot understand why Gordon Waddell is considered to have a stench of the hun about him.

I only listen to it as Mrs Iggy likes it. They were asking for contributions on what, in Scottish Football, 'sends you to sleep'. Only the fact that I was driving stopped me from texting in that the endless (and largely boring) shoehorning of Motherwell into every ****ing story every ****ing week is that one thing.

[WhileTheChief..]

It's basically the same s*** just about every week whether Hibs win, lose or draw.

I'll say it again. The standard of refereeing is woeful. Why that is the case has been debated to death on here. Theories put forward range from Hibs fans are being paranoid to accusations of outright cheating and corruption on the part of referees and their assistants, and also their paymasters.

What really is the truth of the matter? Moreover, what can be done to improve the standard of refereeing? Not just for Hibs sake, but for the good of the game generally?

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.

[northstandhibby]

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.

Sorry but you sound very naive indeed.

GGTTH

[JimBHibees]

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.

Utter nonsense I am afraid. They are cliquey as and basically don't like Hibs for some reason. Doesn't have to be orchestrated for it not to happen, 3 or 4 cheats Thompson, Muir, Collum etc and any number of dodgy linesmen. Contrast and compare the number of very soft decisions Rangers and Hearts got in the last few seasons compared to what we are being served up in the last few years including relegation one the difference is night and day and any rational person should be able to see it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Neil Doncaster Chief Exec
Peter Lawell
Anne Budge
Ian Maxwell (Partick Thistle)
Leeann Dempster
Eric Drysdale (Raith)
Ken Ferguson (Brechin)

That's the board of the SPFL, and in effect the 'paymasters' of the referees.

So which ones are corrupt? What have we done to offend Brechin so much?

Maybe it's not them. Maybe it's Jim Traynor, Chick Young and Keith Jackson wielding some mystical powers over the refs in retribution for our cup win?

Or maybe it's just genuine refereeing errors.

[WhileTheChief..]

Utter nonsense I am afraid. They are cliquey as and basically don't like Hibs for some reason. Doesn't have to be orchestrated for it not to happen, 3 or 4 cheats Thompson, Muir, Collum etc and any number of dodgy linesmen. Contrast and compare the number of very soft decisions Rangers and Hearts got in the last few seasons compared to what we are being served up in the last few years including relegation one the difference is night and day and any rational person should be able to see it.

Is it a coincidence that the two examples of other clubs you give are probably the two you hate the most?

[weecounty hibby]

How do you explain the sendings off, the penalties we don't get, often of the stone wall variety, the pens our opposition get that are soft as ****, the number of fouls it takes against us before the opposition get booked against the number it takes for a Hibs player to get booked. They say that decisions even themselves out but that is usually said by the team who have been given the nonsense penalty against us!!!

[Galahibby]

Do we still have referee supervisors watching the games? What exactly is the point of them? It doesn't seem to matter how hopeless a ref is, they still appear the following week regardless.

[DaveF]

How he missed the shove on Boyle in the second half was astonishing.

It was one of the clearest penalties you're likely to see.

He didn't miss it, he just never gave it. Yet he somehow dreamt up a foul for their penalty. He's an arse

[northstandhibby]

Neil Doncaster Chief Exec
Peter Lawell
Anne Budge
Ian Maxwell (Partick Thistle)
Leeann Dempster
Eric Drysdale (Raith)
Ken Ferguson (Brechin)

That's the board of the SPFL, and in effect the 'paymasters' of the referees.

So which ones are corrupt? What have we done to offend Brechin so much?

Maybe it's not them. Maybe it's Jim Traynor, Chick Young and Keith Jackson wielding some mystical powers over the refs in retribution for our cup win?

Or maybe it's just genuine refereeing errors.

Its the sfa who are in charge of hiring self-employed whistlers for individual matches. Certain referees will be expected to perform in certain ways as per which clubs they are in charge of.

For example Alan Muir will already be known as one who is of a certain persuasion.

If it was I who was a referee they would know never to put me in charge of a yams game as I would never referee it fairly.

It is not rocket science.

I'm astonished after all the recent 'red cards' and now a mystical penalty that any hibbie could defend such blatant acts of biased refereeing against us.

Anyway it's saturday night and i'm celebrating a good win today and will refrain from saying any more on this subject.

GGTTH

[Hiber-nation]

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.



Have you actually watched any Hibs games this season? Bizarre.

[Sergey]

Do we still have referee supervisors watching the games? What exactly is the point of them? It doesn't seem to matter how hopeless a ref is, they still appear the following week regardless.

I can't comment with any authority on the Scottish games, but even at Ryman (Pub League) level every match is assessed by an FA Referee Official.

There's probably dross at every level in every league. Bring back the Maltese would be a decent shout if all were in agreement.

[H18 SFR]

Alan Muir's reward for a totally inept and shambolic performance today...demotion? No! Ross County v Celtic on Wednesday. Shambles!

[brog]

The refs we've had in the championship are so bad that I'm actually pleased when we get Craig Thomson now.

Its nothing to do with the championship. Alan Muir has reffed at the top level in Scotland for many years now & he's completely incompetent! He should have been suspended after the Falkirk play off game but even before that I saw him have a shocker in the Pars-Ross C game. I don't subscribe to the agenda theory, I just genuinely believe he takes incompetence to a new level. The system is that both clubs should assess his performance & at least for top league there should be a neutral assessor in the stand. What are these people doing?

[Scouse Hibee]

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.


Nope not having that, if the standard of refereeing is the highest it's ever been why are there so many inconsistencies in refereeing decisions, one ref gives something that another ref wouldn't. I agree that the the organisation and training of referees is probably more organised than it's ever been but that is not being transferred to the pitch on match days which tells me the standard is still poor despite their best efforts. I'm not talking about camera replays either, I'm talking about decisions seen at the game with the naked eye that are so obviously wrong it's ridiculous.

[brog]

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?



The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.



I agree things were if anything worse 20/30 years ago when there were far fewer cameras around & consequently far less scrutiny of refereeing decisions. That however does not mean the standard is higher now. Alan Muir would have stood out as incompetent in any era! As for corruption, I agree there's no organised form of it but I can give you one example of a thoroughly corrupt ref - Bobby Tait! This is a guy who after retirement made a living out of after dinner speaking at masonic functions & boasted he'd never awarded a penalty against Oldco. Even allowing for the usual apocryphal tales at these functions, BT has on many occasions professed his love for Oldco & his efforts on behalf of them. He was responsible for the most astonishing piece of refereeing I've seen at ER. We were 3-1 up at H/T vs Oldco, Gazza etc playing. Early in the 2nd half he awarded Oldco a free kick, he sprinted for the ball & kicked it to the Rangers player who immediately passed it on. 10 seconds later Oldco scored & went on to win 4-3. Again he openly boasts about providing the 1st pass for a Rangers goal!! Given the huge support for the uglies in Scotland I'd be astonished if there were not refs still biased in their duties in these matches.

[Bostonhibby]

Utter nonsense I am afraid. They are cliquey as and basically don't like Hibs for some reason. Doesn't have to be orchestrated for it not to happen, 3 or 4 cheats Thompson, Muir, Collum etc and any number of dodgy linesmen. Contrast and compare the number of very soft decisions Rangers and Hearts got in the last few seasons compared to what we are being served up in the last few years including relegation one the difference is night and day and any rational person should be able to see it.
[emoji106] Right on the money.

For me I don't think there actually needs to be a very subtle plan. It's as basic as some officials display their loyalty towards certain clubs to a greater extent than any professional should, that can also stretch to unfavourable decisions against teams who their own favourites are at odds with.

No idea who Muir supports but it's not Hibernian.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[twiceinathens]

Blaming the referee for our own ineptitude has been a regular theme but Muir's performance today(along with his assistants) was outstandingly dreadful.

[JimBHibees]

Is it a coincidence that the two examples of other clubs you give are probably the two you hate the most?

Ok so it's me that's corrupt. Compare and contrast the utterly appalling decisions we have got in recent years including the relegation season to the numerous soft pens they have got and also soft reds they have had against them. Something stinks IMO. The same characters the same decisions. How Muir is able to ref another Hibs game after the play off decision is astounding and yet he is again blatantly contriving to do us over. Simply bent.

[Golden Bear]

Blaming the referee for our own ineptitude has been a regular theme but Muir's performance today(along with his assistants) was outstandingly dreadful.

Spot on. That's exactly the way I see it.

[matty_f]

When it keeps happening you're entitled to question whether or not it's just incompetence. I wish they were incompetent in our favour when it matters now and again.

[JimBHibees]

When it keeps happening you're entitled to question whether or not it's just incompetence. I wish they were incompetent in our favour when it matters now and again.

Yep if it was merely incompetence we would be getting some of these in our favour, the fact we aren't means IMO it is reasonable to question the motivation.

[Real Emerald]

How he missed the shove on Boyle in the second half was astonishing.

It was one of the clearest penalties you're likely to see.

At QOS Lewis Stevenson was sent of for a lesser hands on the back of a player running down the wing. Second soft yellow and defo pen let go.

[lord bunberry]

I can't comment with any authority on the Scottish games, but even at Ryman (Pub League) level every match is assessed by an FA Referee Official.

There's probably dross at every level in every league. Bring back the Maltese would be a decent shout if all were in agreement.
There's assessment of referees in this league as well. The problem is that the people doing the assessment are off the same persuasion as the guy on the pitch. I used to laugh at the Celtic complaints of bias, now I'm convinced it's true. The red cards in the last few weeks have been ridiculous and I defy anyone to watch that penalty decision today and tell me where the incident took place. How long can it be put down to incompetence?

[Sir David Gray]

There is no question that we have been on the end of some shocking decisions in recent weeks, that's obvious when two red cards have been overturned within the last month.

However, in terms of today's referee, I don't really think any accusations of bias can be levelled against him when he sent one of their players off and gave us a penalty.

I think it just boils down to him being pish.

[lord bunberry]

There is no question that we have been on the end of some shocking decisions in recent weeks, that's obvious when two red cards have been overturned within the last month.

However, in terms of today's referee, I don't really think any accusations of bias can be levelled against him when he sent one of their players off and gave us a penalty.

I think it just boils down to him being pish.
The 2 decisions you mention ŵere obvious calls for a referee to make. The Dunfermline penalty was a joke, they were even shocked to get it.

[PatHead]

There is no question that we have been on the end of some shocking decisions in recent weeks, that's obvious when two red cards have been overturned within the last month.

However, in terms of today's referee, I don't really think any accusations of bias can be levelled against him when he sent one of their players off and gave us a penalty.

I think it just boils down to him being pish.



He gave them a penalty that simply was not a penalty.
Never gave us a penalty for the shove,
booked McGinn for his first foul but allowed them to kick lumps out of him.
Couldn't ignore the penalty we got but didn't send the player off.
Sent their player off for a blatant kick on our player in injury time,
Did nothing about Farid's sly wee stamp on one of our players despite seeing it clearly.
Gave them a bye kick when it was clearly a corner

Apart from that no bias was shown

[Sir David Gray]

The 2 decisions you mention ŵere obvious calls for a referee to make. The Dunfermline penalty was a joke, they were even shocked to get it.

According to Allan Johnston, it sounds like they're unhappy with the red card. I would need to see it again on a replay but if that is the case then it would lessen our claims of bias.

I personally think if he was biased against us or looking to cheat then I don't think he would have given us anything like that. He could have easily turned a blind eye to the penalty award and decided to give their player a booking instead of a red card.

[B.H.F.C]

There is no question that we have been on the end of some shocking decisions in recent weeks, that's obvious when two red cards have been overturned within the last month.

However, in terms of today's referee, I don't really think any accusations of bias can be levelled against him when he sent one of their players off and gave us a penalty.

I think it just boils down to him being pish.

When he gave us the penalty he should have sent the boy off. I know the rules have changed but jumping on someone's back isn't a genuine attempt to get the ball.

In terms of the sending off it was a blatant kick out in the 93rd minute so we hardly gained an advantage.

He denied us a stonewall penalty for a foul on Boyle and invented one for him. And the most bizarre decision of the lot was to give them a goal kick when the defender blocked a Stevenson cross right at the start of the second half.

The number of big decisions going against us is beyond bad luck.

Oh and this is the guy that made the worst call I've ever seen in my life when he didn't give us a penalty in the playoff against Falkirk when the boy nearly picked the ball up.

[Real Emerald]

According to Allan Johnston, it sounds like they're unhappy with the red card. I would need to see it again on a replay but if that is the case then it would lessen our claims of bias.

I personally think if he was biased against us or looking to cheat then I don't think he would have given us anything like that. He could have easily turned a blind eye to the penalty award and decided to give their player a booking instead of a red card.
The red card for them at that time didn't matter and he absolutely couldn't not give the penalty. No idea how anyone can say he wasn't at least incompetent and verging on biased. The calls he made you are referring to were after his negative influence on Hibs hadn't worked.

[matty_f]

There is no question that we have been on the end of some shocking decisions in recent weeks, that's obvious when two red cards have been overturned within the last month.

However, in terms of today's referee, I don't really think any accusations of bias can be levelled against him when he sent one of their players off and gave us a penalty.

I think it just boils down to him being pish.

He'd already ignored one blatant penalty for us, he couldn't avoid giving the second one. The red card was a red all day long, again right in front of him and totally blatant.

[Wee Effen Bee]

When it keeps happening you're entitled to question whether or not it's just incompetence. I wish they were incompetent in our favour when it matters now and again.

I agree Matty. Thing is, I just really can't see there being an organised conspiracy against Hibernian FC. I do believe though, that today's inept display, by the ref and near-side Lino, is being officially recorded as one of my top 5 worst performances of all time!:aok:

[Real Emerald]

I agree Matty. Thing is, I just really can't see there being an organised conspiracy against Hibernian FC. I do believe though, that today's inept display, by the ref and near-side Lino, is being officially recorded as one of my top 5 worst performances of all time!:aok:

I agree with you but the top 5 spot of bad refereeing performances seems to change every week these days. There's something not right about that!🙄

[lord bunberry]

According to Allan Johnston, it sounds like they're unhappy with the red card. I would need to see it again on a replay but if that is the case then it would lessen our claims of bias.

I personally think if he was biased against us or looking to cheat then I don't think he would have given us anything like that. He could have easily turned a blind eye to the penalty award and decided to give their player a booking instead of a red card.
They can dispute the red card all day, it wont make them hibees champions

[Sir David Gray]

The red card for them at that time didn't matter and he absolutely couldn't not give the penalty. No idea how anyone can say he wasn't at least incompetent and verging on biased. The calls he made you are referring to were after his negative influence on Hibs hadn't worked.


He'd already ignored one blatant penalty for us, he couldn't avoid giving the second one. The red card was a red all day long, again right in front of him and totally blatant.

But he could (and probably would) have ignored that second penalty claim, had he been biased.

I'm not disputing that he was incompetent in the slightest, I've already said that several times. His performance was a disgrace but I'm not convinced that he was cheating.

[Real Emerald]

It's a daft argument to get into but he has history with us and he is definitely incompetent. The fact that we're consistently on the end of horrendous (not just bad) decisions every week has us all a bit paranoid. Maybe we should get that old Sabbath song ringing out every week lol 👍🏆

[beensaidbefore]

I hate hearing this. Whether we play well or not we deserve to have referees give us a fair crack of the whip.

We should be skooshing these teams regardless of how poor the ref is. 11 men proved that today.

[Argylehibby]

There is no question that we have been on the end of some shocking decisions in recent weeks, that's obvious when two red cards have been overturned within the last month.

However, in terms of today's referee, I don't really think any accusations of bias can be levelled against him when he sent one of their players off and gave us a penalty.

I think it just boils down to him being pish.

The penalty was so blatant that even Jim Leishman would have given it. The fact the defender stayed on the park is more reflective of the refs performance. The red card was in injury time and as someone said a few minutes before that when we were awarded us a free kick, the ref basically came to the conclusion he could help the pars no more and he gave in trying.

The problem in Scotland is the powers that be don't think the refs would cheat so they don't look to see if they do. You won't find a problem if you don't look for it.

[Argylehibby]

But he could (and probably would) have ignored that second penalty claim, had he been biased.

I'm not disputing that he was incompetent in the slightest, I've already said that several times. His performance was a disgrace but I'm not convinced that he was cheating.

Your naivity is charming but........ He may be biased but it doesn't mean he's stupid! It's going to be shown on tv, it's going to be highlighted by Hibs, it's on the back of two red cards being rescinded so publicity is guaranteed, you can be as biased as you want but there are some things you can't ignore or turn a blind eye to and the penalty was one of them.

[BS44]

I thought the ref was good

[Mikey09]

It doesn't get any better further down we go. I was at the Preston-Montrose game today, 3 red cards, one after the final whistle for a sub telling the ref 'that was a disgrace' from 30 yards, straight red. He blew the full time whistle in the huff due to a shout from a back garden before running down the tunnel barging past players. Embarrassing the standard of people getting badges in this country.


This is why we have such incompetent officials. Simple. I've seen guys in the Lowland League out their depth FFS! It's an embarrassment!

[CallumLaidlaw]

Just seen some match clips. Never a penalty to them. But also the red card will be rescinded. Bizarre sending off.


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[h1bee123]

Just seen some match clips. Never a penalty to them. But also the red card will be rescinded. Bizarre sending off.


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From watching the highlights on Hibs TV, the ref is clearly influenced by the Hibs players reaction. I don't think he would have given a red without that. In that moment when the players were squaring up he looks so inept.

[SRHibs]

Let's be honest, there's no bias against Hibs. If you go on Dunfermline's forum, the referee is being called our "12th man" because of his pro-Hibs refereeing performance. It's a lot easier to remember the ***** decisions that affect Hibs negatively.

Hearts fans believe there is a conspiracy against them, as do Aberdeen, Celtic, Rangers etc etc. I don't doubt that there is the odd decision made that is influenced by a referee's bias, but I definitely don't think there's a targeted campaign against Hibs. This is their job.

[Onion]

Let's be honest, there's no bias against Hibs. If you go on Dunfermline's forum, the referee is being called our "12th man" because of his pro-Hibs refereeing performance. It's a lot easier to remember the ***** decisions that affect Hibs negatively.

Hearts fans believe there is a conspiracy against them, as do Aberdeen, Celtic, Rangers etc etc. I don't doubt that there is the odd decision made that is influenced by a referee's bias, but I definitely don't think there's a targeted campaign against Hibs. This is their job.

Agree, any suggestion there's something formal in place is daft. However, just as we all hear and see the blatant anti-Hibs sentiment in the mainstream broadcast media week-in week-out, IMO there's a strong anti-Hibs sentiment among a large group of referees and officials. There is simply too much evidence, particularly over the last few years, to ignore or explain away as mere incompetence. It does not have to be discussed, agreed or coordinated at a high level as it's endemic and second nature within this group.

The media are sometimes forced to praise Hibs through gritted teeth, to maintain their status as paid professionals, but it's not their natural inclination. Same goes for a large group of match officials.

[Onion]

Let's be honest, there's no bias against Hibs. If you go on Dunfermline's forum, the referee is being called our "12th man" because of his pro-Hibs refereeing performance. It's a lot easier to remember the ***** decisions that affect Hibs negatively.

Hearts fans believe there is a conspiracy against them, as do Aberdeen, Celtic, Rangers etc etc. I don't doubt that there is the odd decision made that is influenced by a referee's bias, but I definitely don't think there's a targeted campaign against Hibs. This is their job.

Because opponents have come to expect referees to allow their players to kick the **** out of Hibs with impunity, refuse all obvious penalty claims and to send our players off without rhyme or reason.

Can see why the Pars fans are furious. Ref's had a shocker :wink:

[hibbiedon]

There is no way that this can be bad refereeing if so the old cliche of it evens out over a season would be used. Look at the sending offs the game changing errors, the dubious penalties against the blatant ones denied, I cannot believe that it is all done to bad luck

[The Captain....]

I don't think there was a single aspect of the refs performance worthy of praise. It was an absolutely shambolic performance.

How he didn't see the barge into the back of Boyle as a penalty I do not know, he had got his body between the ball and the defender and it was clear as day he was bundled over.

I've been reticent for Hibs as a club to make our complaints public for fear of it being counter productive but I'm not sure the officiating could get any worse if we did. It's time they were publically called out on how bad they are..no other club in Scotland consistently suffers the appalling decisions we do.


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[Greenworld]

Guys simple solution Is for the team to play better score more goals and then win games convincingly. The ref becomes irrelevant.
At the moment we seem to be blaming refs for our very poor performances

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[banarc7062]

While we can't do much to prevent incompetent refereeing, we can raise our standards to that what we saw in the second half today, and prevent those baffling refereeing displays having an influence on our fate.
Agree...that is exactly what we have to do each game. Score goals by the barrow load and Ref's will not be able to create enough daft decisions to rob us of victories. GGTTH:flag:

[Marco G]

Guys simple solution Is for the team to play better score more goals and then win games convincingly. The ref becomes irrelevant.
At the moment we seem to be blaming refs for our very poor performances

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I think that we were playing well against Ayr, when sending off changed the game. We were playing well against Raith and were even better after sending off. Its the scoring goals bit that is the problem. So I think we are rightly blaming poor refs but agree that when we start scoring the number of goals our play deserves we will be talking less about refs!

[GreenCastle]

I'm not sure how to post it but I've seen the push on Boyle penalty claim from behind the goal and it's a 100% a pen.

Regarding the ref yesterday he was terrible and for both teams - there was several fouls 2nd half which Hibs got which weren't fouls. Did this even out during the game ? No - but just shows how bad the standards of refs in this country are.

As others have mentioned if you go down the leagues it gets worse, lowland league, women's leagues etc.

The assessment process seems infrequent and these refs get paid - aren't doing their job and there is no way things will change unless there is better evaluation of their performance.

I do feel for refs in a way as they do get so much abuse and the game needs them to survive but many of them don't understand the game and have been fast tracked as their is a shortage at all levels.

As I've said it's not just the refs - it's just another piece of those running the game in this country and we wonder why we are failing as they are oblivious to the problem.

[660]

If you are a certain type in Scotland then you instinctively hate traditionally catholic teams. You can't give dodgy decisions against Celtic because they are too big and the media will scrutinise it. Hibs seem to be a useful alternative. Especially with Lennon as manager.

There have been literally hundreds of dodgy decisions against Hibs in the past 5-10 years. It's bizarre how they don't seem to even out. The only explanation I can see is casual sectarian thinking. It doesn't really require any organisation. It just need the majority of refs to be hun types.

[Leithenhibby]

While we can't do much to prevent incompetent refereeing, we can raise our standards to that what we saw in the second half today, and prevent those baffling refereeing displays having an influence on our fate.

:top marks

It really is that simple.
GGTTH

[WhileTheChief..]

How do we manage to win any points at all?

If there's widespread bias against Hibs from the officials then surely we'd lose most weeks?

Why don't they just disallow goals and call it offside, or claim there was a foul in the build up etc.

Why don't they just say the ball never crossed the line even if it clearly was? There's nobody inspecting them right? No action will be taken against them so they've nothing to lose.

If you all truly believe there is some kind of bias against us then why not email the club asking them to investigate instead of whining on here.

I wonder what LDs response would be?

I'm no mind reader but I'd imagine that it would be along the lines of disappointment at some recent decisions but that she has no doubt about the integrity of the referees in this country.

Give it a bash and post any reply on here!

[snooky]

:top marks

It really is that simple.
GGTTH

Not really. The least we should expect is a level playing field when it comes to refereeing. Whilst your point carries some weight, it is totally unacceptable that each game we play is like a Handicap where the officials give the other team a goal of a start (or an extra man as has happened recently)

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I don't buy into the conspiracy stuff. I also don't think refs are cheats or are corrupt. But what is absolutely clear is that some are woefully inconsistent even within the same game never mind game to game. However there are times when you see a ref let things go to keep the game moving and where you see a game finish 11 aside even where it has been physical and committed, the ref gets plaudits essentially for not following the rules. Used to say that a ref had a good game if no one mentions him. That's impossible nowadays with all the tools at hand to disect their performances outwith the time where it really mattered.

[Marco G]

If you are a certain type in Scotland then you instinctively hate traditionally catholic teams. You can't give dodgy decisions against Celtic because they are too big and the media will scrutinise it. Hibs seem to be a useful alternative. Especially with Lennon as manager.

There have been literally hundreds of dodgy decisions against Hibs in the past 5-10 years. It's bizarre how they don't seem to even out. The only explanation I can see is casual sectarian thinking. It doesn't really require any organisation. It just need the majority of refs to be hun types.
Yep, but how do we explain away the dire refs we have had in Euro matches!?

[660]

Yep, but how do we explain away the dire refs we have had in Euro matches!?

Can only think of the offside decision against Brondby. Ref was OK in the away leg.

[Leithenhibby]

Not really. The least we should expect is a level playing field when it comes to refereeing. Whilst your point carries some weight, it is totally unacceptable that each game we play is like a Handicap where the officials give the other team a goal of a start (or an extra man as has happened recently)


I agree, but we just need to start looking after ourselves. The game yesterday could have been so different had we got sucked into a scrap.

2nd half put that to bed.

[Marco G]

Can only think of the offside decision against Brondby. Ref was OK in the away leg.
Well that is one out of two refs! Add the fact that they should have been down to 10 men after a deliberate hand ball by a yellow carded player.

Anyway sorry, I but I am going back a while. E.g Willie Wilson penalised by Clive Thomas for an extra step that got Leeds through. Lots of duff/incompetent refs at ER during Euro matches. Problem is we dont play there enough anymore, but hope that will change.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Speaking to some pars fans this morning that said the ref favoured us especially in the second half. Amazing how opinions differ


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[snooky]

Yep, but how do we explain away the dire refs we have had in Euro matches!?

Loads of back-handers going on in Europe. Some have come to light however IMO that's just the tip if the iceberg.
Mind you, I could get an international cap for scepticism :greengrin

[GreenCastle]

Speaking to some pars fans this morning that said the ref favoured us especially in the second half. Amazing how opinions differ


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He did seem to give us more 2nd half but also some of the stuff he gave us was just wrong so what I'm trying to say is he isn't very good at his paid job of responsibility.

Regarding over the years and refs with Hibs..

A few disallowed goals against Hearts which crossed the line and sendings off against Hearts straight away come to mind during league games.

Refs aren't easy jobs - even in England they are highly scrutinised - but there does need to be better accountability.

I would microphone up the refs like rugby to explain decisions and have a zero tolerance rule to foul lanagaue like rugby also.

[Heisenberg]

From watching the highlights on Hibs TV, the ref is clearly influenced by the Hibs players reaction. I don't think he would have given a red without that. In that moment when the players were squaring up he looks so inept.

Which I was personally delighted to see after our own players have been sent off because of the opposition reaction in recent weeks. Well done Shinnie and all involved.

[matty_f]

How do we manage to win any points at all?

If there's widespread bias against Hibs from the officials then surely we'd lose most weeks?

Why don't they just disallow goals and call it offside, or claim there was a foul in the build up etc.

Why don't they just say the ball never crossed the line even if it clearly was? There's nobody inspecting them right? No action will be taken against them so they've nothing to lose.

If you all truly believe there is some kind of bias against us then why not email the club asking them to investigate instead of whining on here.

I wonder what LDs response would be?

I'm no mind reader but I'd imagine that it would be along the lines of disappointment at some recent decisions but that she has no doubt about the integrity of the referees in this country.

Give it a bash and post any reply on here!

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

[Just Jimmy]

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.
And they are consistently for one or two teams.

You may be paranoid but it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

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[Bostonhibby]

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

:agree: The likes of me have had to endure the culture that projected Brian McGinlay, Tiny Wharton and Bobby Davidson to the very top of Scottish refereeing, the structure ain't changed much so I think we are entitled to be a bit cynical when you add up all this relatively recent stuff, and no doubt look at some of the examples that are yet to come!

[GreenLake]

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.

:faf:

[emerald green]

Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.

Your argument is so full of holes I'll just refer you to what other posters have said.

Where I do agree with you is that refereeing standards were as bad, if not worse, back in the 60/70/80s. But that's no excuse for allowing those standards to continue today.

I also agree that all clubs supporters complain about certain referees. For example, see Neilson at Hearts comments about Collum - train with 10 men etc. I challenge anyone to look at Craig Thomson's record while in charge of Hibs matches and not think something is amiss. How can anyone defend his record?

There doesn't have to be some sort of organised conspiracy. It can be done more subtly than that.

The bit in bold - do you remember a certain very high profile Scottish referee forwarding on an email about the Pope. He and a number of his colleagues were questioned by the SFA about it after it was leaked to the press. He was subsequently sacked. He got caught. Was that an isolated instance? Doesn't seem likely does it?

[brog]

Just watched the highlights, never a red card for Moffat but the body language of both Shinnie & the Pars player after our pen tells you they both expected a red card. Talking of body language, Muir gives off all the wrong signals. He looks like an incompetent & over fussy school teacher suddenly being asked to ref a senior game. I don't think we tried to get Moffat sent off but our "exuberant" reaction didn't help though Muir seemed to be reaching for a card anyway until it appeared we still had possession. Hibs have always been too nice with regards to wrong decisions, we're the only team I know who consistently take free kicks/throw ins further back than where they're given! Maybe we're finally learning how to manage incompetent refs, I would expect NL to make us a much more streetwise team.

[snooky]

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.
You'd be hard pressed to compile a list like that where dodgy decisions gave us a win - and not just off the top of your head but with years of research.

[Libby Hibby]

If things even themselves out then, quite simply, we're in for an awful lot of favourable decision in the coming seasons.

Question, how many retrospective decisions have Hibs had overturned in the last 5 seasons? And how many have been overturned by teams who have played us? I would think that there will be far more for Hibs than against us

[StevieT]

You'd be hard pressed to compile a list like that where dodgy decisions gave us a win - and not just off the top of your head but with years of research.

I can only think of one...Paul Hanlon 'goal' against Dunfermline but I think we had already scored three that day so game was won. I guess that doesn't count as a game changer though.

[WhileTheChief..]

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?

[matty_f]

I can only think of one...Paul Hanlon 'goal' against Dunfermline but I think we had already scored three that day so game was won. I guess that doesn't count as a game changer though.
:agree: was in the dying seconds of the game as well.


Struggling for another one.

[matty_f]

So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?
I think Hibs are well capable of making that point without my input, to be fair.

[emerald green]

So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?

Many years ago, Tom Hart the late Hibs chairman, had the courage to try to do something about it (cheating) after Rangers were awarded the most disgraceful penalty at ER following a blatant dive by John McDonald (which cost Hibs the match).

Needless to say, he didn't get very far. I might be wrong here, but I think he (Hart) ended up getting fined?

I agree commenting on here has limited effect, if any. I've suggested use of video technology being introduced to assist referees with difficult decisions, but I'm probably wasting my time.

[H18 SFR]

It would be interesting to recap all the absolute shockers of incidents we've had since around the Griffiths 40 yards over the line non-goal

[greenginger]

Many years ago, Tom Hart the late Hibs chairman, had the courage to try to do something about it (cheating) after Rangers were awarded the most disgraceful penalty at ER following a blatant dive by John McDonald (which cost Hibs the match).

Needless to say, he didn't get very far. I might be wrong here, but I think he (Hart) ended up getting fined?

I agree commenting on here has limited effect, if any. I've suggested use of video technology being introduced to assist referees with difficult decisions, but I'm probably wasting my time.


Yeah, I think he got fined for bringing the game into disrepute, for calling a diver , a diver.

There was a press photo of McDonald sailing through the air and Eric Schaedler had a copy of behind his Easter Road bar with a caption underneath which read " Sports for All - try Diving ".

Shades had a real dislike for the little hun cheat, and the following season when the Rangers came to visit it was somehow arranged that the program pen picture of the player was Shades.

Amongst the information he supplied was his Favourite Actress - John McDonald. Cue , another complaint from the Ibrox ambassadors of sportsmanship.

[emerald green]

Yeah, I think he got fined for bringing the game into disrepute, for calling a diver , a diver.

There was a press photo of McDonald sailing through the air and Eric Schaedler had a copy of behind his Easter Road bar with a caption underneath which read " Sports for All - try Diving ".

Shades had a real dislike for the little hun cheat, and the following season when the Rangers came to visit it was somehow arranged that the program pen picture of the player was Shades.

Amongst the information he supplied was his Favourite Actress - John McDonald. Cue , another complaint from the Ibrox ambassadors of sportsmanship.

Yep, remember that well.

Favourite Actress - John McDonald. :greengrin

[majorhibs]

So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?

You, sir, on this topic, are quite simply a slaver. Not just a small slaver, a huge slaver.

[Cropley10]

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

Do we also not hold some sort of record for the number of retrospective red cards given to Hearts players AFTER a Derby??!

[lapsedhibee]

Do we also not hold some sort of record for the number of retrospective red cards given to Hearts players AFTER a Derby??!

Yes, but on the other hand Hearts have never played anyone else in a derby, so it's a slightly hollow claim.

[matty_f]

Do we also not hold some sort of record for the number of retrospective red cards given to Hearts players AFTER a Derby??!

I think they were on a game per retrospective red card at one point.

[Jonnyboy]

Just got around to watching the highlights on DAFC TV. Red card was never a red card in a million years. Their penalty was soft but SJM did push the guy over as the ball was approaching. Our pen - definite red card as the guy made no attempt to play the ball and I believe that's what the rules now state. Shinnie in the first half was very poor vbut in the second was excellent.

[O'Rourke3]

Just got around to watching the highlights on DAFC TV..

Those afternoon naps getting longer?

[Seveno]

Perhaps we should congratulate Muir for not sending Bartley off.

[Jonnyboy]

Those afternoon naps getting longer?

:greengrin

[majorhibs]

Perhaps we should congratulate Muir for not sending Bartley off.

Nah, would not go down well with his bosses, & probably put him under pressure next time he refs us. Or their just all twisted crooked biased halfwits. Know which version I favour.

[GreenCastle]

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

This is a pretty good start.

Plus all the ref cards (suspensions) given after derbies and the red cards we have has rescinded...McGinn last season..Bartley twice already this season.

Anymore ?

[CentreLine]

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

At risk of repeating myself. Is there somebody who could put a montage of these events on an internet video. Properly done I'm convinced it would quickly go viral and that in itself would put pressure on the SMSM and also referees to recognise there is an issue to be addressed in the Scottish game generally as well as with Hibs specifically.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

One thing is absolutely clear. Players cheat. Players cheat week in and week out. The refs get hung out to dry when they are conned by cheating players.

[B.H.F.C]

This quote from Darren McGregor sums up the Dunfermline penalty award.

'I’m 
never one for calling refs out, but I asked him and he said 
someone had pushed somebody. But he couldn’t identify who it was from us and who it was from their team'

[CallumLaidlaw]

This quote from Darren McGregor sums up the Dunfermline penalty award.

'I’m 
never one for calling refs out, but I asked him and he said 
someone had pushed somebody. But he couldn’t identify who it was from us and who it was from their team'

The junior ref I spoke to last week who took the refs side over bartleys red says he cannot see how this is a penalty at all.

[brog]

Our favourite ref Craig T is being slaughtered over yesterday's performance. Although I agree he made some mistakes it was easy to understand why these mistakes were made & at the very least he always appeared in charge of a potentially volatile game. If Celtc or Sevco had been subjected to the serial injustices we've been subjected to over the last few years there would have been riots, edit, that's proper riots! :wink: Like an earlier poster I've thought about a video summation but it's way beyond my techy ability. Would love to see though!

[Onion]

Our favourite ref Craig T is being slaughtered over yesterday's performance. Although I agree he made some mistakes it was easy to understand why these mistakes were made & at the very least he always appeared in charge of a potentially volatile game. If Celtc or Sevco had been subjected to the serial injustices we've been subjected to over the last few years there would have been riots, edit, that's proper riots! :wink: Like an earlier poster I've thought about a video summation but it's way beyond my techy ability. Would love to see though!

No real problem with referees making mistakes in OF games. Like No 5 buses, another final or cup win is never too far way for the Bigot Brothers. It's when the mistakes are at key times against other Scottish clubs who have no chance of winning the league and rely on the rare cup wins for silverware. Had Thompson been ref in May 16, we'd be looking at 115 years and counting.

[Big L]

It's systemic thru out the refs in Scottish football! Their is hardly a game played when we are not having players unjustly sent off, penalties wrongly awarded against us and penalties denied us. if it doesn't stop and I mean soon, it will seriously jeopardise our attempt to get out of this league. RP & LD need to do something about this at the very highest level.

[Mikey09]

The one that sticks out for me re incompetent/cheating officials is Sparky's goal at Easter Road against The Famous. The Lino firstly told the Ref it wasn't over the line and at half time after being asked by Hibs players who clearly knew it was in changed his story saying he couldn't see if it had crossed the line so couldn't give it. Make no mistake, officials make things up to go along with there decision making.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Just watched the highlights. The fud blew the whistle and started clapping himself in the middle of the announcers speech to the cowd explaining what the minutes applause was for....!

Absolute fud

[JDHibs]

It's systemic thru out the refs in Scottish football! Their is hardly a game played when we are not having players unjustly sent off, penalties wrongly awarded against us and penalties denied us. if it doesn't stop and I mean soon, it will seriously jeopardise our attempt to get out of this league. RP & LD need to do something about this at the very highest level.

Calm yourself.

Next you will be screaming "we r da peeepol" at everyone and telling people its a conspiracy against us, everyone hates us and a statement needs put out for everything.

The referees are just piss poor.

[ancient hibee]

It's systemic thru out the refs in Scottish football! Their is hardly a game played when we are not having players unjustly sent off, penalties wrongly awarded against us and penalties denied us. if it doesn't stop and I mean soon, it will seriously jeopardise our attempt to get out of this league. RP & LD need to do something about this at the very highest level.

No they don't.For promotion all we need is for the players to perform as they should for 90 minutes every week.

[emerald green]

No they don't.For promotion all we need is for the players to perform as they should for 90 minutes every week.

That's not going to happen if players are being sent off, incorrectly, well before 90 minutes are up.

[snooky]

One thing is absolutely clear. Players cheat. Players cheat week in and week out. The refs get hung out to dry when they are conned by cheating players.
This is a good point. A refs job is hard enough without all the jersey pulling, diving & feigning injury.
The amount of fouling that goes on in the box before a corner kick is taken is unbelievable. The referee could give a free kick to either the attacking or defending side as the players are all at it.
If a ref does have a bias, he can call any of the legitimate fouls that are committed against his favoured side. This has been going on for years when teams play the OF. e.g. Two players both fouling each other going for a ball - the ref calls it the way that suits his agenda.

[WhileTheChief..]

So is the general consensus on Hibs net that referees all work with some kind of agenda / bias / corruption / cheating involved, specifically targeted against us?

Got to say I'm surprised by this. My feeling is that the game up here is straight and that refs simply make howling errors sometimes.

I'd hate to have that feeling of going into every game thinking the odds were stacked against us before a ball was even kicked.

[worcesterhibby]

So is the general consensus on Hibs net that referees all work with some kind of agenda / bias / corruption / cheating involved, specifically targeted against us?

Got to say I'm surprised by this. My feeling is that the game up here is straight and that refs simply make howling errors sometimes.

I'd hate to have that feeling of going into every game thinking the odds were stacked against us before a ball was even kicked.

No there is not a consensus as the vast majority of Hibs.netters have just read the posts and not contributed.

IMHO The vast majority of poor decisions that Hibs get are just incompetence or honest mistakes (c'mon Ref's are allowed to make them, none of us are perfect)..a few might be because the ref himself is biased (C Thompson for instance) but I personally very much doubt there is a conspiracy.

I sometimes wonder if part of the issue is that particularly under fenlon and Stubbs, Hibs players were not encouraged to scream in the Refs face and wave imaginary cards during the game, yet other teams like Houstons Falkirk and every Rangers team that has ever existed, do. Ref's do bend to pressure, maybe we have shown too much "Hibs Class" in the past and that may be the main contributory pressure on the Ref's.

[northstandhibby]

No there is not a consensus as the vast majority of Hibs.netters have just read the posts and not contributed.

IMHO The vast majority of poor decisions that Hibs get are just incompetence or honest mistakes (c'mon Ref's are allowed to make them, none of us are perfect)..a few might be because the ref himself is biased (C Thompson for instance) but I personally very much doubt there is a conspiracy.

I sometimes wonder if part of the issue is that particularly under fenlon and Stubbs, Hibs players were not encouraged to scream in the Refs face and wave imaginary cards during the game, yet other teams like Houstons Falkirk and every Rangers team that has ever existed, do. Ref's do bend to pressure, maybe we have shown too much "Hibs Class" in the past and that may be the main contributory pressure on the Ref's.

There doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

The SFA only develop referees who fit in with most of their key descriptors. I genuinely hope I don't have to detail the key descriptors - see not a conspiracy merely I would expect most hi bees to 'understand' what I am merely hinting at.

There is no doubt Alan Muir could not be sure if there was a push or an unintentional coming together on Saturday therefore he took the opportunity to give a penalty against us.

An expected decision one which certain people in the sfa would say well done Alan.

Craig Thompson is undoubtedly another - look at the good goal he chalked off against the huns on Sunday.

Steven McClean is not such a one or we would never have won the holy grail. I wonder if there were voices requesting a referee like Thompson was not allowed to be anywhere near our cup win.

GGTTH

[WhileTheChief..]

^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

[JDHibs]

^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

10/10

[northstandhibby]

^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

You have a point of view not one I agree with but nether the less it is a point of view.

:aok:

GGTTH

[Danderhall Hibs]

^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

I don't think it's a conspiracy but I do wonder how it never evens itself out and I'm talking about some real howlers. It's hard to believe it's "just" incompetence.

And btw I thought Thomson did favour Rangers at the weekend.

[lapsedhibee]

^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

You do realise that the expressions "West of Scotland football supporters" and "Scottish Cup supporters" weren't simply invented here on this board? You write as if there is no bias at all in the Scottish game and its coverage. Why, do you think, would Scott Brown say that for the same indiscretion he got booked at Hibs and only spoken to at Celtc? :confused:

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm only talking about the allegations levelled against the refs being biased, cheats or corrupt.

I've not mentioned the coverage we receive at all.

If they are cheats then absolutely nothing else in the game matters at all. It's over.

[ACLeith]

I'm only talking about the allegations levelled against the refs being biased, cheats or corrupt.

I've not mentioned the coverage we receive at all.

If they are cheats then absolutely nothing else in the game matters at all. It's over.

Let's put the word "Cheats" aside.

As a Hibs supporter from a very early age, if I then had become a Grade 1 official I would stop going to matches in case I was spotted, though I would still look for our results and cheer us on from my armchair.

I am then allocated a Hearts or a The Rangers game and as in every match have to make split-second decisions. Does a foul merit a talking to/yellow/red card? Offside or onside? Goal kick or corner? Penalty or fair challenge? etc. All of these could have a major impact on the game and although I went out with the intention of being fair, in spite of that would my background mean I instinctively make that decision against Hearts or The Rangers?

If so, does that make me a "cheat"?

Maybe that's why in England referees have to declare allegiances. Here of course the law of averages means that the majority of referees would declare for The Rangers or Celtic, which would limit the choice of allocated referees.

The solution? Bring back the Maltesers :greengrin

[snooky]

Let's put the word "Cheats" aside.

As a Hibs supporter from a very early age, if I then had become a Grade 1 official I would stop going to matches in case I was spotted, though I would still look for our results and cheer us on from my armchair.

I am then allocated a Hearts or a The Rangers game and as in every match have to make split-second decisions. Does a foul merit a talking to/yellow/red card? Offside or onside? Goal kick or corner? Penalty or fair challenge? etc. All of these could have a major impact on the game and although I went out with the intention of being fair, in spite of that would my background mean I instinctively make that decision against Hearts or The Rangers?

If so, does that make me a "cheat"?

Maybe that's why in England referees have to declare allegiances. Here of course the law of averages means that the majority of referees would declare for The Rangers or Celtic, which would limit the choice of allocated referees.

The solution? Bring back the Maltesers :greengrin
Better to stop us playing with soft centres :wink:

[ACLeith]

Better to stop us playing with soft centres :wink:

😀😀😀👍👍👍

[lapsedhibee]

I'm only talking about the allegations levelled against the refs being biased, cheats or corrupt.

Why, do you think, would Scott Brown say that for the same indiscretion he got booked at Hibs and only spoken to at Celtc? :dunno:

[brog]

Why, do you think, would Scott Brown say that for the same indiscretion he got booked at Hibs and only spoken to at Celtc? :dunno:

Sort of makes nonsense of the religion theory though, does it not? I posted earlier about Bobby Tait, the rabid Rangers ref who has openly owned up to his bias in favour of Oldco. The only ref ever to have provided the 1st pass in a goalscoring move for Oldco. He's retired but I'm sure there's others of a similar persuasion & yet I still feel 90% of errors are down to incompetence. Quite simply Alan Muir is not fit to referee at any level.

[lapsedhibee]

Sort of makes nonsense of the religion theory though, does it not? I posted earlier about Bobby Tait, the rabid Rangers ref who has openly owned up to his bias in favour of Oldco. The only ref ever to have provided the 1st pass in a goalscoring move for Oldco. He's retired but I'm sure there's others of a similar persuasion & yet I still feel 90% of errors are down to incompetence. Quite simply Alan Muir is not fit to referee at any level.

If only 90% of errors are down to incompetence, that leaves another 10% down to what?

I don't think there's any question whatsoever that the whole game in Scotland is twisted to suit The Thes and Celtc, and further that Jack Regan was probably right when he used to argue at length on this board that between The Thes and Celtc, The Thes get a helping hand. Whether that's down to The Thes being the traditionally proddy club or being the traditionally establishment club I dunno.

[Big L]

Calm yourself.

Next you will be screaming "we r da peeepol" at everyone and telling people its a conspiracy against us, everyone hates us and a statement needs put out for everything.

The referees are just piss poor.

I'm not reading about them being " piss poor " on a regular basis with other teams in our league! The refereeing has cost us 6 or 7 points to date. If the "piss poor " refereeing continues it will make the job of getting out of this league extremely difficult. You obviously believe that we should just accept this **** and hope that at sometime in the future we will get a fair crack!

[lyonhibs]

I'm not reading about them being " piss poor " on a regular basis with other teams in our league! The refereeing has cost us 6 or 7 points to date. If the "piss poor " refereeing continues it will make the job of getting out of this league extremely difficult. You obviously believe that we should just accept this **** and hope that at sometime in the future we will get a fair crack!

I guarantee fans of other clubs think the refs are piss poor for their teams as well.

It's the nature of the beast

[northstandhibby]

I guarantee fans of other clubs think the refs are piss poor for their teams as well.

It's the nature of the beast

It would be nice to have a few games where the opposition against us would have very soft sending offs or fortuitous penalties given against them.

GGTTH

[Danderhall Hibs]

I guarantee fans of other clubs think the refs are piss poor for their teams as well.

It's the nature of the beast

I bet they do but could they list as many horrendously incorrect decisions as we can?

[brog]

If only 90% of errors are down to incompetence, that leaves another 10% down to what?

I don't think there's any question whatsoever that the whole game in Scotland is twisted to suit The Thes and Celtc, and further that Jack Regan was probably right when he used to argue at length on this board that between The Thes and Celtc, The Thes get a helping hand. Whether that's down to The Thes being the traditionally proddy club or being the traditionally establishment club I dunno.



I probably agree that if we analyse refereeing decisions between the uglies then the blue uglies probably benefit. However if you analyse decisions in favour of the green uglies vs the rest of the league then im 100% certain Celtc will benefit. There's a lot of unconscious bias, as other posters have said by players being in your face all the time & 50,000 people baying for a penalty. Refs also know they won't face scrutiny by denying major decisions to any team playing the OF
It's unthinkable that Pars pen on Saturday would have been awarded against either of the OF. That IMO however just means refs are fallible, not corrupt.

[Big L]

So Craig Thomson isn't a bent git, he just makes mistakes every time he referees our games and all the crap refreeing decisions we've been subjected to this season are all just mistakes! I don't think so. Refs can make mistakes in every game they take part in, and we can all argue whether it was a foul or not, thats acceptable. The wrong decisions we are on the end off are game changers, and they are not acceptable!

[lapsedhibee]

There's a lot of unconscious bias, as other posters have said by players being in your face all the time & 50,000 people baying for a penalty. Refs also know they won't face scrutiny by denying major decisions to any team playing the OF
It's unthinkable that Pars pen on Saturday would have been awarded against either of the OF. That IMO however just means refs are fallible, not corrupt.

I get that 50,000 people baying for a penalty would sway an incompetent to award a penalty.

But there were never 50,000 people baying for Scott Brown to get spoken to rather than booked.

There wouldn't be 50,000 people baying for Alan Muir not to give a penalty such as the Pars got on Sat. If it's one law for the uglies and a different law for everyone else, that IMO is bent. If a ref makes a decision based on whether or not he wants his windows tanned for it, that's understandable as a human but it's also bent.

[Iggy Pope]

I get that 50,000 people baying for a penalty would sway an incompetent to award a penalty.

But there were never 50,000 people baying for Scott Brown to get spoken to rather than booked.

There wouldn't be 50,000 people baying for Alan Muir not to give a penalty such as the Pars got on Sat. If it's one law for the uglies and a different law for everyone else, that IMO is bent. If a ref makes a decision based on whether or not he wants his windows tanned for it, that's understandable as a human but it's also bent.

His decision not to send Craig Gordon off at Dingwall this evening is leaving him looking fallible. And bent.

[greenlex]

His decision not to send Craig Gordon off at Dingwall this evening is leaving him looking fallible. And bent.

Disagree. Yellow was spot on. Outside the box and clumsy with the boy going away from goal. It wasn't dangerous nor malicious.

[Kojock]

Disagree. Yellow was spot on. Outside the box and clumsy with the boy going away from goal. It wasn't dangerous nor malicious.

Sorry I thought it was football not kick boxing. If a defender jumped at an opponent like that it would've been a red.

[staunchhibby]

Its not the first time Gordon has got away with it

[O'Rourke3]

Disagree. Yellow was spot on. Outside the box and clumsy with the boy going away from goal. It wasn't dangerous nor malicious.

Eh? No attempt to play the ball, not looking at the ball and leaping at the opponent isn't dangerous? How about reckless then?

[greenlex]

Eh? No attempt to play the ball, not looking at the ball and leaping at the opponent isn't dangerous? How about reckless then?

Aye possibly but yellow is correct. Fairly sure he started out to play the ball but was hopelessly clumsy and late. Barely made contact with the boy to be honest. He almost missed him.

[CorrieHibs]

The Ross County boss was left smarting at the failure of ref Alan Muir to dismiss Craig Gordon and Leigh Griffiths as his side went down 4-0 in Dingwall.

McIntyre reckoned Griffiths should have been given a second yellow after a second half skirmish with Andrew Davies, before Gordon was booked for charging out his box and clattering Liam Boyce.

It's not just us then.

[Enough said]

Disagree. Yellow was spot on. Outside the box and clumsy with the boy going away from goal. It wasn't dangerous nor malicious.

Your as embarrassing as ref muir with this statement....

[Marco G]

Aye possibly but yellow is correct. Fairly sure he started out to play the ball but was hopelessly clumsy and late. Barely made contact with the boy to be honest. He almost missed him.
Unlike a few weeks ago when he hit the cf at head height and flattened him. Got a yellow for that as well!

[GreenCastle]

Just watched the incident - I think it's a red card.

Just what was he doing ? Clumbsy or not - surely it's serious foul play?

Can someone post a video of it on here please.

[ancient hibee]

Aye possibly but yellow is correct. Fairly sure he started out to play the ball but was hopelessly clumsy and late. Barely made contact with the boy to be honest. He almost missed him.
It was an assault.He didn't have to touch him.

[greenlex]

Hmmmmm. Just seen Mike Dean dish out a Yellow for a high boot that (almost) caught a player in the face. Outfield player too. There was contact. Dangerous? Possibly. Clumsy? Yes. Malicious? No.
It doesnt have to be a red.