Former SAS soldier may stand trial

[Scouse Hibee]

What are your thoughts on this? This guy carried out mercy killings on fatally wounded Iraq troops.

[Hibbyradge]

Interesting question.

Killing mortally wounded soldiers is against British military law and the Geneva Convention.

That aside, if someone I cared for was killed by an enemy soldier, I doubt I'd accept the mercy killing excuse.

Are the SAS medically trained? If not, how did he know they were mortally wounded?

Did he kill them just because they were in pain? If so, it's certainly murder.

I don't think his actions are excusable and I think there must be a good chance he'll be found guilty.

[bawheid]

My first thought when I heard this on the radio was: who decided they were mortally wounded? Was there a medic with them?

[Pete]

My first thought when I heard this on the radio was: who decided they were mortally wounded? Was there a medic with them?

If he's a member of the SAS I'm not sure he'd need one. I've not experienced anything like that but if someone had been disembowelled or had lost three limbs and there was no immediate medical attention around, I'd rate their chances of survival as zero. If they were asking me to put them out their misery then I would.

If I knew the law then I wouldn't be mentioning it an any book though.

[magpie1892]

If I knew the law then I wouldn't be mentioning it an any book though.

He did know the law, he admitted as much. However, in the event of this incident coming before a court, he can quite easily recant his entire book as being embellished by artistic licence and where will they find any witneses for the prosecution after 13 years?

To quote Bob Hoskins playing Harold Shand in The Long Good Friday: 'Oh yeah. They're all dead'.

It goes without saying that no-one from his company will testify against him.

[pontius pilate]

The guy in question is not going to be charged at all in fact he never even put that paragraph into his forthcoming book due to be released in November. I also know that the man in question is of great integrity and would do no such act. Further to this if it was an animal in that much distress it would be seen as the most humane way of putting them out of their pain.

[Hibbyradge]

The guy in question is not going to be charged at all in fact he never even put that paragraph into his forthcoming book due to be released in November. I also know that the man in question is of great integrity and would do no such act. Further to this if it was an animal in that much distress it would be seen as the most humane way of putting them out of their pain.

It's legal to put animals "out of their misery".

It's illegal to do so to enemy combatants.

If he didn't do it, why all the fuss? :confused:

[pontius pilate]

The same enemy combatants who adhere to no rules of conflict the same enemy combatants who will use childre as human shields. I know what has been alleged is legally wrong but morally it is the correct thig to do. The guys in the sas are trained to shoot and scoot and trained to a high level of first aid. However as I stated earlier I do not believe he has done what has been alleged

[magpie1892]

The guy in question is not going to be charged at all in fact he never even put that paragraph into his forthcoming book due to be released in November. I also know that the man in question is of great integrity and would do no such act.

He gave first person quotes to a reporter from the Mail on Sunday backing up the claim in the book. His 'friends' have now blamed a 'ghost writer' for 'sexing up' the passage. Pretty much as I said - he'll never go before a court because he can recant the book as a partionally fictionalised account and the Crown will have considerable difficulty finding witnesses.

Regardless of how I feel about the act on a personal level, I believe he did do it, and has rowed back for preservation of himself and his family.

Your comment about 'integrity' doesn't hold much water, as this is the crux of the argument. Does it show more integrity to finish someone off with one remaining limb who is bleeding out, or let them die in agony for up to maybe an hour?

Your Royal Scots' cap badge avatar might suggest a lack of objectivity in this matter.

[pontius pilate]

He gave first person quotes to a reporter from the Mail on Sunday backing up the claim in the book. His 'friends' have now blamed a 'ghost writer' for 'sexing up' the passage. Pretty much as I said - he'll never go before a court because he can recant the book as a partionally fictionalised account and the Crown will have considerable difficulty finding witnesses.

Regardless of how I feel about the act on a personal level, I believe he did do it, and has rowed back for preservation of himself and his family.

Your comment about 'integrity' doesn't hold much water, as this is the crux of the argument. Does it show more integrity to finish someone off with one remaining limb who is bleeding out, or let them die in agony for up to maybe an hour?

Your Royal Scots' cap badge avatar might suggest a lack of objectivity in this matter.

I have also said that legally what is alerted to have happened was wrong but morally Imo it would have been the correct thing to do. On the witness side it hasn't stopped the IHCR bringing up cases not indeed sienn feinn also bringing up cases. In any event everything is speculation. It also begs the question in that what would we have some as an individual of we were placed into that exact situation. Thinking back to dunblane the emergency services didn't want to treat Hamilton but thier oath meant they had to

[Danderhall Hibs]

Good publicity for both the book and the start of the channel 4 programme he's in.

[magpie1892]

I have also said that legally what is alerted to have happened was wrong but morally Imo it would have been the correct thing to do. On the witness side it hasn't stopped the IHCR bringing up cases not indeed sienn feinn also bringing up cases. In any event everything is speculation. It also begs the question in that what would we have some as an individual of we were placed into that exact situation. Thinking back to dunblane the emergency services didn't want to treat Hamilton but thier oath meant they had to

Thomas Hamilton was never treated by the emergency services. Lord Cullen's public enquiry into the Dunblane shootings reported:

3.8 Thomas Hamilton then re-entered the gym where he shot again. He then released the pistol and drew a revolver. He placed the muzzle of the revolver in his mouth, pointing upwards and pulled the trigger. His death followed quickly.


source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/276631/3386.pdf

I tend to agree on a personal level with what you say about the incident at hand, but there's no getting away from its illegality. You previously stated it wouldn't come to court, and I agree, but you don't seem so sure now?

[Colr]

My first thought when I heard this on the radio was: who decided they were mortally wounded? Was there a medic with them?

Indeed. The SAS should parachute into conflict with a full support team of medical, legal, policy and PR advisors.

[RyeSloan]

Indeed. The SAS should parachute into conflict with a full support team of medical, legal, policy and PR advisors.

Or what goes on tour stays on tour?

[pontius pilate]

[QUOTE=SiMar;4839516]Or what goes on tour stays on tour.

That old chestnut been a while since I heard that.


Every unit that deploys on your wether it be peacekeeping ceremonial or on iOS will have a medic. The sas along with the sbs are trained to a decent degree of first aid.

[Killiehibbie]

What are your thoughts on this? This guy carried out mercy killings on fatally wounded Iraq troops.No fuss if he kept his mouth shut.

[RyeSloan]

[QUOTE=SiMar;4839516]Or what goes on tour stays on tour.

That old chestnut been a while since I heard that.


Every unit that deploys on your wether it be peacekeeping ceremonial or on iOS will have a medic. The sas along with the sbs are trained to a decent degree of first aid.

Yeah was being slightly facetious but it's quite simple that if the book had not contained these details then nothing would be getting investigated.

For what it's worth I'm not one for judging people that are involved in such situations...it's extremely hard for me to imagine quite what it's like for these guys on the front line and from the little I've read he done the right thing, albeit it would appear to contravene the Geneva convention so will bow out of this discussion.

[Scouse Hibee]

[QUOTE=pontius pilate;4839526]

Yeah was being slightly facetious but it's quite simple that if the book had not contained these details then nothing would be getting investigated.

For what it's worth I'm not one for judging people that are involved in such situations...it's extremely hard for me to imagine quite what it's like for these guys on the front line and from the little I've read he done the right thing, albeit it would appear to contravene the Geneva convention so will bow out of this discussion.

The geneva convention, seems to be quoted rather than followed in many wars

[ronaldo7]

What are your thoughts on this? This guy carried out mercy killings on fatally wounded Iraq troops.

Have you got any links to the story?

When I google the SAS, all I get is guys who've done their time, and are now being hired to burn down football stadiums, overthrow African leaders, or other crimes which are best not mentioned.

[pontius pilate]

Have you got any links to the story?

When I google the SAS, all I get is guys who've done their time, and are now being hired to burn down football stadiums, overthrow African leaders, or other crimes which are best not mentioned.

It has been widely reported on local and national news there is a Facebook petition on the go at the moment. I know the guy personally as well however that does not cloud my judgement. We take an oath and abide by not only the Geneva convention but also the law of armed conflict. In the case of the marine a who shot and killed an unarmed man or in the case of the chap who was charged with the illegal possession of a firearm I was all for those convictions. With this case I do not believ that he will be charged I also think it is great publicity for his forthcoming book

[ronaldo7]

It has been widely reported on local and national news there is a Facebook petition on the go at the moment. I know the guy personally as well however that does not cloud my judgement. We take an oath and abide by not only the Geneva convention but also the law of armed conflict. In the case of the marine a who shot and killed an unarmed man or in the case of the chap who was charged with the illegal possession of a firearm I was all for those convictions. With this case I do not believ that he will be charged I also think it is great publicity for his forthcoming book

Thanks, I'll try Pussbook.

[ronaldo7]

I have also said that legally what is alerted to have happened was wrong but morally Imo it would have been the correct thing to do. On the witness side it hasn't stopped the IHCR bringing up cases not indeed sienn feinn also bringing up cases. In any event everything is speculation. It also begs the question in that what would we have some as an individual of we were placed into that exact situation. Thinking back to dunblane the emergency services didn't want to treat Hamilton but thier oath meant they had to


It has been widely reported on local and national news there is a Facebook petition on the go at the moment. I know the guy personally as well however that does not cloud my judgement. We take an oath and abide by not only the Geneva convention but also the law of armed conflict. In the case of the marine a who shot and killed an unarmed man or in the case of the chap who was charged with the illegal possession of a firearm I was all for those convictions. With this case I do not believ that he will be charged I also think it is great publicity for his forthcoming book

Are you not conflicted by the bits in bold?

In your first post it seems to be the correct thing to do, but in the last one, you take an oath and abide by the GC and the law of armed conflict.:confused:

[pontius pilate]

Are you not conflicted by the bits in bold?

In your first post it seems to be the correct thing to do, but in the last one, you take an oath and abide by the GC and the law of armed conflict.:confused:

I can see where you are coming from legally it was incorrect going by the loac and the gc. Morally it was the correct thing to do. This is all conjecture though as there is no factual evidence that this has taken place. Yes I am torn myself betweeen the legality and the morality of the situation.

[Allant1981]

Cant see anything coming from it, ive got his book ordered via amazon so intrigued even more now

[Allant1981]

Have you got any links to the story?

When I google the SAS, all I get is guys who've done their time, and are now being hired to burn down football stadiums, overthrow African leaders, or other crimes which are best not mentioned.

Just google colin maclachlan, pretty sure its been in the papers the last few days

[ronaldo7]

Just google colin maclachlan, pretty sure its been in the papers the last few days

:aok:

[pontius pilate]

Just google colin maclachlan, pretty sure its been in the papers the last few days

That's the fella I didn't want to name him however that is the guy in question.

Bearing in mind this guy was captured in Iraq he was given mock executions stripped naked and tortured to a degree the Iraq miltia attempted to hand him and his mate over to Islamic terrorists in the area. They then refused to hand them over to British forces who caught wind of there capture. I can honestly say after serving with Colin that he is a guy of immense pride and integrity he is imo a hero. Some may say that I am looking at this in a tainted view however if I honestly believed that there was substance I would not be defending him on here or on social media.

[TheReg!]

What are your thoughts on this? This guy carried out mercy killings on fatally wounded Iraq troops.

I wouldn't call them mercy killings, all he and what every other solider does in those situations is to clear the positions, nothing more, nothing less. You don't waste medical supplies on enemy combatants as they're needed for our own troops.

[Scouse Hibee]

I wouldn't call them mercy killings, all he and what every other solider does in those situations is to clear the positions, nothing more, nothing less. You don't waste medical supplies on enemy combatants as they're needed for our own troops.

Just going by what I read mate, personally I have no gripe with what he has done even if it is againdt the Geneva convention. Unless you have been in the position he was and have experienced the horrific treatment that those captured were subjected to then you can never out yourself in his shoes. All those serving and especially in conflict are bloody heroes to me. Hope you're well and the move has gone well.

[steakbake]

Armed personnel operating on behalf and under the flag of a state should adhere to the Geneva Convention, though we're repeatedly seeing it broken as there's no realistic way in the world that a western state would ever be accused of being in contravention of it. The GC is just for African warlords and tinpot dictators, it seems. I'm quite sure that insurgents etc don't play to the rules of that same game, but that's really no excuse. You can legitimise anything if you don't set yourself boundaries or at least increasingly push at the edges. That leads us to uncivilisation. Witness Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.

I won't comment on this particular case other than it seems a bit extraordinary.

[One Day Soon]

My thoughts on this are no case to answer and, if charged, not guilty.

As an aside, other than what we might loosely term Western Bloc countries, does anyone else publicly drag their troops through the courts like this? I don't read a lot of Russian, Chinese, or Middle Eastern news outlets so perhaps I'm unaware of it but do these or other countries observe the Geneva convention and their own domestic laws as rigorously?

[Future17]

That's the fella I didn't want to name him however that is the guy in question.

Bearing in mind this guy was captured in Iraq he was given mock executions stripped naked and tortured to a degree the Iraq miltia attempted to hand him and his mate over to Islamic terrorists in the area. They then refused to hand them over to British forces who caught wind of there capture. I can honestly say after serving with Colin that he is a guy of immense pride and integrity he is imo a hero. Some may say that I am looking at this in a tainted view however if I honestly believed that there was substance I would not be defending him on here or on social media.

I understand you're in a difficult position but, on one hand you've vouched for his integrity whilst, one the other, you've stated there is no substance to the claim which he himself has made.

[Allant1981]

He has denied its in the book anyway has he not? Ive not read it yet as i dont get my copy until november but oretty sure he has said its not, he has also stated he will go to court if need be to prove he hasnt done anything wrong, a few mates i was in the royal scots with vouch for him and say he is a good guy so hopefully its done and dusted soon

[Scouse Hibee]

Hopefully it's all done and dusted,never served myself but my old boss was Ex RSM Royal Scots and although I had to drag stories from him some of the stuff that guys serving suffer in conflict is horrific.

[Hibrandenburg]

Unless you've been out there and gone a mile in his shoes then you're not fit to judge his actions.

[pontius pilate]

Hopefully it's all done and dusted,never served myself but my old boss was Ex RSM Royal Scots and although I had to drag stories from him some of the stuff that guys serving suffer in conflict is horrific.

Hope you don't mind me asking but what is your bosses name mate? I am ex royal Scot myself hence the user name

[pontius pilate]

He has denied its in the book anyway has he not? Ive not read it yet as i dont get my copy until november but oretty sure he has said its not, he has also stated he will go to court if need be to prove he hasnt done anything wrong, a few mates i was in the royal scots with vouch for him and say he is a good guy so hopefully its done and dusted soon


Just wonder if I know them? Hence the reason I put up a defence for him on this as I know him also

[pontius pilate]

I understand you're in a difficult position but, on one hand you've vouched for his integrity whilst, one the other, you've stated there is no substance to the claim which he himself has made.

That's it though he hasn't made the claim allegedly it was a ghost writer I did mention that earlier in the thread

[Allant1981]

Just wonder if I know them? Hence the reason I put up a defence for him on this as I know him also

When were you in?

[pontius pilate]

When were you in?

92-05 done numerous tours of NI Bosnia Iraq

[Scouse Hibee]

Hope you don't mind me asking but what is your bosses name mate? I am ex royal Scot myself hence the user name

James Flood was my old boss,I reckon he came out about 96ish

[pontius pilate]

James Flood was my old boss,I reckon he came out about 96ish

Yep I know Jimmy flood good guy I hold him in high esteem

[Scouse Hibee]

Yep I know Jimmy flood good guy I hold him in high esteem

Floody is some guy,I remember when he first joined the company he would still want to sort things out the army way,it took him a while to adapt to civvy street methods. He had hollow legs,lost count of the number of times I got totally wrecked with him. Been a good few years since I last saw him.

[pontius pilate]

Floody is some guy,I remember when he first joined the company he would still want to sort things out the army way,it took him a while to adapt to civvy street methods. He had hollow legs,lost count of the number of times I got totally wrecked with him. Been a good few years since I last saw him.

That's true he is some guy hates a bevy his nose will pay homage to that haha. There is not many like him left. What is you do mate?

[Allant1981]

92-05 done numerous tours of NI Bosnia Iraq

You will know gary patterson and james mcdonald probably

[Scouse Hibee]

That's true he is some guy hates a bevy his nose will pay homage to that haha. There is not many like him left. What is you do mate?

That was when I was in Security,I was Assistant Manager to Floody who was the Security Manager at Jenners pre Frasers days. I now work in Health & Safety, Floody moved on before me and done something similar for M&S think he's packed in all together now.

[pontius pilate]

That was when I was in Security,I was Assistant Manager to Floody who was the Security Manager at Jenners pre Frasers days. I now work in Health & Safety, Floody moved on before me and done something similar for M&S think he's packed in all together now.

Wouldn't suprise me if he has he must be close to retirement age by now. Your right though he left in the summer of 96 as we left Inverness to go to colchester. He called me into his office and kindly reminded us all that we are representing the Bn on the advance party.