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View Full Version : Our Four Game Slump And Extenuating Circumstances



Keith_M
17-10-2016, 04:16 PM
Firstly, I'd like to put it out there that I'm in no way saying that the following is an excuse for poor performances...


We started the league in good form, winning the first five games. Since then, we've played four, lost one, drew three and won none. However, in three of those four games, we've been (wrongly) given a red card and had to play for long spells a man down. Also, having seen the highlights of the Raith match, I'd say we were denied at least one penalty (possibly two).


Even if it doesn't excuse the poor performances, is it really a coincidence that we have only picked up 3 points in that spell of games?


I'd like to think that if we hadn't been on the receiving end of such poor refereeing, we'd be sitting well clear at the top of the league right now and applauding the team, instead of of giving them pelters.

familyman
17-10-2016, 04:49 PM
Firstly, I'd like to put it out there that I'm in no way saying that the following is an excuse for poor performances...


We started the league in good form, winning the first five games. Since then, we've played four, lost one, drew three and won none. However, in three of those four games, we've been (wrongly) given a red card and had to play for long spells a man down. Also, having seen the highlights of the Raith match, I'd say we were denied at least one penalty (possibly two).


Even if it doesn't excuse the poor performances, is it really a coincidence that we have only picked up 3 points in that spell of games?


I'd like to think that if we hadn't been on the receiving end of such poor refereeing, we'd be sitting well clear at the top of the league right now and applauding the team, instead of of giving them pelters.

Sadly Scottish football has had loads of poor refer decisions and we just have to somehow rise above it...for years and years certain clubs got away with bad decisions and now it seems our turn but we are on the receiving end...It is hard when it seems so many seem to happen to us just now but we just need to create more clear cut openings so we can free up space where it matters..hard I know but we can adjust with the players we have.Predictable build ups mean cover is far easier and space reduced,so we need a plan B sometimes...but we can do that!!!We are top with all this hard luck so things can only get better and we can create that gap at the top.We can and we will.:flag:

Deansy
17-10-2016, 05:25 PM
Firstly, I'd like to put it out there that I'm in no way saying that the following is an excuse for poor performances...


We started the league in good form, winning the first five games. Since then, we've played four, lost one, drew three and won none. However, in three of those four games, we've been (wrongly) given a red card and had to play for long spells a man down. Also, having seen the highlights of the Raith match, I'd say we were denied at least one penalty (possibly two).


Even if it doesn't excuse the poor performances, is it really a coincidence that we have only picked up 3 points in that spell of games?


I'd like to think that if we hadn't been on the receiving end of such poor refereeing, we'd be sitting well clear at the top of the league right now and applauding the team, instead of of giving them pelters.

Probaly one of the traits Neil Lennon is famous for is complaining about poor/inept/bent refereeing - WHEN is this trait going to make an appearance for us ?. We never complain about the appalling refereeing we've had but it's high-time we started - some of the decisions against us recently are just outrageous and are arguably the main reason for our 'slump' !.

DTS
17-10-2016, 05:30 PM
Have to agree with the opp I also feel that the Ayr game aside the points we picked up in the other 3 games had they not been on the back of each other we would have looked at them as decent points gained at tricky away grounds in raith and queens along with being dissapointed but not a disaster with a draw against united

ancient hibee
17-10-2016, 05:35 PM
Probaly one of the traits Neil Lennon is famous for is complaining about poor/inept/bent refereeing - WHEN is this trait going to make an appearance for us ?. We never complain about the appalling refereeing we've had but it's high-time we started - some of the decisions against us recently are just outrageous and are arguably the main reason for our 'slump' !.
He's been all over the papers about them since the first red card so don't understand what you mean.

Jack Hackett
17-10-2016, 08:19 PM
He's been all over the papers about them since the first red card so don't understand what you mean.

He was also straight in Finne's face at the end of the match

SunshineOnLeith
18-10-2016, 07:28 AM
We never complain about the appalling refereeing we've had.

Apart from all those times we do.

Jones28
18-10-2016, 08:28 AM
This is just a wee hiccup, whoever thought we were going to go a season unbeaten in the championship is kidding themselves. Winning the cup has been a huge boost but it papered over a lot of cracks that were present at the end of last season.

Having said that we are nothing like as poor as some are making out - when we play the system that won us the first 5 games. We have had 3 big decisions go against us and had we kept 11 men on the park against Ayr we'd have won comfortably. The Dundee United game was a poor performance but it's because the manager is tinkering too much with the system - which is one he implemented so lots of credit to him for that.

Ronniekirk
18-10-2016, 08:34 AM
i am open minded and not interested in finding reasons why we havent won Start scoring goals is the key and if keeping eleven men on the park helps us to do this then great
But lets not kid ourselves There is something not working out at presnt and lack of creativity and lack of goals is costing us That still needs addressed
Its good we can grind out draws away from home with ten men and we are top of the Leaugue despite out poor form but we need to get back to winning ways
Dunfermline will come at us and that will help

HibbySpurs
18-10-2016, 09:28 AM
i am open minded and not interested in finding reasons why we havent won Start scoring goals is the key and if keeping eleven men on the park helps us to do this then great
But lets not kid ourselves There is something not working out at presnt and lack of creativity and lack of goals is costing us That still needs addressed
Its good we can grind out draws away from home with ten men and we are top of the Leaugue despite out poor form but we need to get back to winning ways
Dunfermline will come at us and that will help

Agree with the bit in bold.
Most teams are going to "park the bus" against us knowing that if we get ahead we may well give them a "doing"......

Ayr parked it - we were cruising - Bartley SO and gave them a road back in...
QOS Parked it - Stevenson sent off and they were able to contain us for a 0-0
Utd were a bit more open but at 1-0 we failed to kill them off and they ended up with a good result for them at 1-1
Raith were lucky to get a 0-0 draw despite MB getting sent off

Three things we aren't doing well just now IMO:

1. Breaking teams down who park the bus
2. Killing games off when we get in front
3. Keeping 11 players on the park!!!

The last point is open to debate about who' at fault but the first two can be resolved by the Manager and his approach to games, hopefully these are thing we will focus on and improve upon.

It really shows the quality of the ret of this league that we have taken 3 points from 12 yet are still top!!!!!

A Falkirk fan was waxing lyrical to me about their chances yesterday... I just kept asking him "remind me, who's top?" Eventually I just laughed at him and told him his team like the other 10 have no chance of winning this league.... That's how confident I am.

The fact we are still 4/7 - 1/2 to win the division is also telling of how the layers think the league will pan out.

Geo_1875
18-10-2016, 09:35 AM
Sadly Scottish football has had loads of poor refer decisions and we just have to somehow rise above it...for years and years certain clubs got away with bad decisions and now it seems our turn but we are on the receiving end...It is hard when it seems so many seem to happen to us just now but we just need to create more clear cut openings so we can free up space where it matters..hard I know but we can adjust with the players we have.Predictable build ups mean cover is far easier and space reduced,so we need a plan B sometimes...but we can do that!!!We are top with all this hard luck so things can only get better and we can create that gap at the top.We can and we will.:flag:

Have you only recently supporting Hibs? We've been shafted by referees for as long as I can remember. How many games have you seen where Hibs players can be kicked for fun yet first booking is guaranteed to go to a Hibs player? How many times have we seen hertz players get retrospective red cards while Hibs players have their cards rescinded? This usually after they have scraped a win. It's not a recent phenomenon and will continue as long as they can get away with it.

WeeRussell
18-10-2016, 11:49 AM
Have you only recently supporting Hibs? We've been shafted by referees for as long as I can remember. How many games have you seen where Hibs players can be kicked for fun yet first booking is guaranteed to go to a Hibs player? How many times have we seen hertz players get retrospective red cards while Hibs players have their cards rescinded? This usually after they have scraped a win. It's not a recent phenomenon and will continue as long as they can get away with it.

Have you only recently stopped supporting Celtic? :greengrin

NAE NOOKIE
18-10-2016, 02:01 PM
I would be a lot more down on the team if this recent run had been put together under normal circumstances, but it hasn't been. In fact it could be said that the players deserve credit for coming away from two of the toughest away venues in the league unbeaten after going down to 10 men at both.

We were coasting against Ayr before Barley got sent off, but that's perhaps a lesson ( if one were needed ) that we need to add to the scoreline when we are in total control and go ahead. If we had been 2 - 0 up in that game there would have been no way back for Ayr because we would have been far less open without feeling the need to chase another goal.

We start again at Dunfermline on Saturday and we need to start turning our dominance in games into goals, its as simple as that for us ..... there isn't a team in this league who can live with us when we play at our best. We have got it right when it comes to imposing ourselves on teams, we dominate every stat from possession to attempts on goal and if we can only find a way to turn all that into goals we will stroll this league. If we cant do that its going to be a long old struggle.

resident_Arab
18-10-2016, 02:25 PM
Every team can point to circumstances I guess

We have the new team gelling aspect, had non stop injury troubles but have came through a spell of 6 out of 7 games away from home quite well with most of our midfield out , only recent defeat in league was at Falkirk, we were the better team but 3 players went off injured and a 4th played on injured, saw us lose the game late on

We also only have one striker in our squad but are somehow top scorers at this stage

NAE NOOKIE
18-10-2016, 02:45 PM
Every team can point to circumstances I guess

We have the new team gelling aspect, had non stop injury troubles but have came through a spell of 6 out of 7 games away from home quite well with most of our midfield out , only recent defeat in league was at Falkirk, we were the better team but 3 players went off injured and a 4th played on injured, saw us lose the game late on

We also only have one striker in our squad but are somehow top scorers at this stage

I don't know how teams set up at Tannadice RA but its bloody murder at Easter Road ... everybody who comes plays with 9 men behind the ball and one up front, just about every game has Hibs in total possession in the first two 3rds trying to find a way past two banks of 4 in the final 3rd. Even away from home we are up against teams with defence in mind.

If Utd continue to find form you will see exactly the same thing at Tannadice ....... get ready for some bloody frustrating afternoons mate.

resident_Arab
18-10-2016, 02:56 PM
I don't know how teams set up at Tannadice RA but its bloody murder at Easter Road ... everybody who comes plays with 9 men behind the ball and one up front, just about every game has Hibs in total possession in the first two 3rds trying to find a way past two banks of 4 in the final 3rd. Even away from home we are up against teams with defence in mind.

If Utd continue to find form you will see exactly the same thing at Tannadice ....... get ready for some bloody frustrating afternoons mate.


That's exactly what we have encountered so far, McKinnon said that would be the case though, only Partick in the league cup came at us and we took them apart in first half and saw out the second half comfortable

Home form been decent so far though, not lost since April at Tannadice, away form been patchy buy picking up a bit, starting to look settled in defence, can't remember the last time we had back to back cleansheets (albeit last week was Stranraer in the irn bru)

Smartie
18-10-2016, 03:06 PM
That's exactly what we have encountered so far, McKinnon said that would be the case though, only Partick in the league cup came at us and we took them apart in first half and saw out the second half comfortable

Home form been decent so far though, not lost since April at Tannadice, away form been patchy buy picking up a bit, starting to look settled in defence, can't remember the last time we had back to back cleansheets (albeit last week was Stranraer in the irn bru)

It's still your lot that I fear the most.

I expected you to start badly, you are where we were 2 years ago - starting afresh after a calamitous period but with a clean slate and a good manager. That's unlikely to yield results overnight so I'd have expected us to steal a march on you. I also thought you'd take a bit of time to adapt to the league - it's tougher than a lot of people think, not in that the standard is particularly high but in that there are very few teams who want to play football and are content just getting men behind the ball.

I think you'll get stronger as the season goes on though - as I mentioned you have an excellent manager imo and most importantly he knows this league. Once your players settle I think you'll improve as the season goes on. I'd have hoped that we'd be miles in front, leaving you a bit demoralised but it looks like that isn't going to happen.

I think this is why I'm as jittery as I am about where we are right now. We've failed to get promoted in both our previous attempts and whilst we've got a solid squad that I think would do well in the Premier League where teams play a bit more football, I don't think it's looking like it has what it takes to get good enough results in this league.

I'm also hoping though that we've got a bit of our bad luck out of the way with some of the appalling but significant refereeing decisions that have gone against us.

It's shaping up to be an interesting league though which some folk might like. Not me, getting back up is too important to us and I'd have preferred it for us to have been out of sight at Christmas.

ancient hibee
18-10-2016, 05:55 PM
I don't know how teams set up at Tannadice RA but its bloody murder at Easter Road ... everybody who comes plays with 9 men behind the ball and one up front, just about every game has Hibs in total possession in the first two 3rds trying to find a way past two banks of 4 in the final 3rd. Even away from home we are up against teams with defence in mind.

If Utd continue to find form you will see exactly the same thing at Tannadice ....... get ready for some bloody frustrating afternoons mate.


Exactly.Never mind Easter Road. The fact that we've lost one goal away from home, and that was the first game ,shows how teams are lining up against us.

joe t
18-10-2016, 06:02 PM
72 points has been enough to secure this league title every year for the last decade, sometimes by as much as 17 pts. That's 18 pts per set of 9 games. We're on 18 after the first round of games and that's with three unwarranted sending offs. This league is ours, even talking into account the points dropped recently.

cabbageandribs1875
18-10-2016, 06:12 PM
72 points has been enough to secure this league title every year for the last decade, sometimes by as much as 17 pts. That's 18 pts per set of 9 games. We're on 18 after the first round of games and that's with three unwarranted sending offs. This league is ours, even talking into account the points dropped recently.


sevco had 81 last season, hertz 91 the season before :confused:






or is this a woosh :greengrin

ancient hibee
18-10-2016, 06:20 PM
sevco had 81 last season, hertz 91 the season before :confused:






or is this a woosh :greengrin

No.It's what the second team has that matters.

Itsnoteasy
18-10-2016, 07:03 PM
I don't know how teams set up at Tannadice RA but its bloody murder at Easter Road ... everybody who comes plays with 9 men behind the ball and one up front, just about every game has Hibs in total possession in the first two 3rds trying to find a way past two banks of 4 in the final 3rd. Even away from home we are up against teams with defence in mind.


If Utd continue to find form you will see exactly the same thing at Tannadice ....... get ready for some bloody frustrating afternoons mate.

That's up to us to break them down. Unfortunately we're no good enough to do it.

Heisenberg
18-10-2016, 07:32 PM
Dundee United looked utterly mince when they came to ER but are picking up some form. We badly need to start scoring goals.

fulshie
18-10-2016, 08:59 PM
Not only have been on the receiving end of sending offs, I feel the team is, and still is in a tactical transitional period. The first few games we won were IMO down to still playing Stubbsy's way and slowly but surely NL has been getting his methods across which interrupted our play a wee bit (managers do have their different styles). There is no question though that if the run of the ball went our way we'd be flying even through the transitional period because we have the best squad of players. I have no doubt the team is ready to click and someone somewhere (preferably at ER) is going to get a hiding.

Forza Fred
18-10-2016, 11:04 PM
Firstly, I'd like to put it out there that I'm in no way saying that the following is an excuse for poor performances...


We started the league in good form, winning the first five games. Since then, we've played four, lost one, drew three and won none. However, in three of those four games, we've been (wrongly) given a red card and had to play for long spells a man down. Also, having seen the highlights of the Raith match, I'd say we were denied at least one penalty (possibly two).


Even if it doesn't excuse the poor performances, is it really a coincidence that we have only picked up 3 points in that spell of games?


I'd like to think that if we hadn't been on the receiving end of such poor refereeing, we'd be sitting well clear at the top of the league right now and applauding the team, instead of of giving them pelters.


Problem I have though, is that over the last three seasons this forum has been dotted now and then with similar 'reasons' and the confident prediction that things would eventually turn out ok.

As I have said in previous posts, I don't think we have improved this season on last, but our saving grace perhaps is that the opposition we face this season is not as hard as last season.

We will be battling for top spot until the end of the season, but we are certainly a few players short of what is required to confidently predict that we will have the league won with us pulling well ahead of the pack as many have done.

We are a Champioship side, trying to win the championship, not a Premier League side in the wrong division.

Forza Fred
18-10-2016, 11:08 PM
Dundee United looked utterly mince when they came to ER but are picking up some form. We badly need to start scoring goals.


Dundee United will be right there fighting at the death....when we drew with them they had a couple of key players out, and will, and have improved since then.

They won't lose too many matches, and seem to be picking up momentum.

allezsauzee
19-10-2016, 12:27 PM
McKinnon did extremely well to get a poor Raith team in the play offs. I'd be surprised if he didn't have Dundee United challenging for promotion. I still expect us to win this division though.