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View Full Version : Why hasn't the Scottish Cup win given the players more confidence?



G B Young
11-10-2016, 11:00 AM
I think it's fair to say that the euphoria which surrounded the Scottish Cup win was equalled by the feeling of relief that this hoodoo was finally over. You could see what it meant to the players too, writing their names into club folklore.

Personally, I also sensed that the feelgood factor went deeper than simply lifting the cup. I sensed that at last the club was really ready to break free of its shackles and use the momentum generated by that day at Hampden to make their mark again in Scottish football. The players had proved they were a match for anyone on their day and when they kicked off the new season with a fine win at Falkirk (following a praiseworthy effort in Europe) I was confident they meant business.

Despite the hiccup of the League Cup exit, most of us were happy enough with the five-game winning start to the league campaign which is without question the priority this season. A couple of games were won ugly but that's OK when the key is simply to get the points on the board.

Since the Ayr United defeat, however, it's stunning how rapidly the players have retreated into their shells and started to look vulnerable every time the opposition cross the halfway line. The woeful goals return in recent games is depressing too. Why on earth is their confidence still so fragile? The quality of Scottish football is, in my view, exceptionally poor these days but on paper Hibs have a far stronger squad than any in this division - and indeed most in the top league. We could and should be performing with bags more swagger and, in my view, winning almost every game we play.

Perhaps Lennon should sit them down in front of a screening of the cup final to remind them what they're capable of if they put their minds to it? Whatever the issues are it's essential we don't allow the feelgood factor from Hampden to evaporate, which it's already starting to do a lot more quickly than most of us could imagined.

Smartie
11-10-2016, 11:24 AM
I don't think the confidence issues are restricted to the players. It seems to me that it is the confidence of the fans that has taken the biggest kicking over the past few weeks.

We won our first 5 league games and gave Brondby a very tough tie in Europe. Since then we've had a bit of a wobble.

We're only a point off top of the league. Lennon has tinkered with his team and will have (hopefully) learned a lot from this.

We need to back our manager and the players who won us that cup. They haven't become bad players overnight, and we mustn't talk our wobble into a full-blown crisis.

Lennon needs to be brave and confident too. He has the tools - he just needs to find the way to use them again.

Whilst our recent form is a bit worrying, I don't think it is time to panic yet. It's all about the league and some inept performances in cups may actually turn out to be a good thing, as long as we learn from them.

Andy74
11-10-2016, 11:27 AM
I think it's fair to say that the euphoria which surrounded the Scottish Cup win was equalled by the feeling of relief that this hoodoo was finally over. You could see what it meant to the players too, writing their names into club folklore.

Personally, I also sensed that the feelgood factor went deeper than simply lifting the cup. I sensed that at last the club was really ready to break free of its shackles and use the momentum generated by that day at Hampden to make their mark again in Scottish football. The players had proved they were a match for anyone on their day and when they kicked off the new season with a fine win at Falkirk (following a praiseworthy effort in Europe) I was confident they meant business.

Despite the hiccup of the League Cup exit, most of us were happy enough with the five-game winning start to the league campaign which is without question the priority this season. A couple of games were won ugly but that's OK when the key is simply to get the points on the board.

Since the Ayr United defeat, however, it's stunning how rapidly the players have retreated into their shells and started to look vulnerable every time the opposition cross the halfway line. The woeful goals return in recent games is depressing too. Why on earth is their confidence still so fragile? The quality of Scottish football is, in my view, exceptionally poor these days but on paper Hibs have a far stronger squad than any in this division - and indeed most in the top league. We could and should be performing with bags more swagger and, in my view, winning almost every game we play.

Perhaps Lennon should sit them down in front of a screening of the cup final to remind them what they're capable of if they put their minds to it? Whatever the issues are it's essential we don't allow the feelgood factor from Hampden to evaporate, which it's already starting to do a lot more quickly than most of us could imagined.

I think we should see how they cope over the coming weeks. Each of the results in the last few weeks have been a bit different in terms of why we haven't done better. If anything its the confidence in the fans that seems to have evaporated pretty quickly.

I think a lot of the recent reaction has been fans not really liking Lennon and now is the time to come out and have a go. Stubbs had worse starts, he had worse periods of results, but he was given some more leeway - people liked him.

In terms of the final we had some key players that we don't have now. would we have won without Henderson and Stokes?

We have to recall we were in pretty bad shape in the second half of the season anyway, the cup final helped patch that up.

We didn't do enough with the squad in the summer. We are now down to trying players like Harris and Forster who weren't good enough to be in the squad last year.

I think we will sort it out if we get back to some basics, back to the team we started the season with and getting the ball in the box again.

Geo_1875
11-10-2016, 12:12 PM
If every player plays to the level they are capable of we have a good team. If one or two are not at the top of their game we are beatable. I think the midfield look like they are playing without confidence at the moment and could do with a bit of freedom to join the attack and have a go sometimes. One good victory with a few goals scored could make all the difference.

seven nowt
11-10-2016, 12:24 PM
Well Stokes who scored two in the cup final and Henderson who got two assists off the bench are not part of the squad. Not suitably replacing two of our best players can't help.

beensaidbefore
11-10-2016, 12:43 PM
The Scottish cup win glossed over the fact that we were nowhere near the finished article. Had we lost that match there would have been shouts for a radical overhaul of the playing squad and management. Would never change it for the world, but we were all guilty of heaping praise on players at the end of the season who were 15 minutes away from having an poor season. Apart from Lennon, not a lot has changed. New signings are arguably not as good as those we no longer have. And we are underperforming. For the 3rd year in a row. Confidence can only cover inadequacy for so long.

BSEJVT
11-10-2016, 02:22 PM
As Jack Nicklaus once said " it takes thousands of shots to build up confidence" and one shot to lose it.

Confidence is a transient and fleeting thing changing all the time through many different factors which effect different people differently.

The team looked really good pre-season and full of confidence, however they are now being asked to do different things by a different manager with a different style of management.

This manager has made it clear that past deeds count for nought and its perfectly natural that at this point in the journey they are a bit out of sorts.

What will determine their and their manager's future is how they put themselves back together and how quickly.

The one concern I do have is that not one of them appears to be thriving on the challenge and kicking on. IMO each and everyone of them is performing at a lower level than they were last year.

Only Cummings would come close ( in goal terms anyway) which makes Lennon's treatment of him quite puzzling

Andy74
11-10-2016, 02:32 PM
As Jack Nicklaus once said " it takes thousands of shots to build up confidence" and one shot to lose it.

Confidence is a transient and fleeting thing changing all the time through many different factors which effect different people differently.

The team looked really good pre-season and full of confidence, however they are now being asked to do different things by a different manager with a different style of management.

This manager has made it clear that past deeds count for nought and its perfectly natural that at this point in the journey they are a bit out of sorts.

What will determine their and their manager's future is how they put themselves back together and how quickly.

The one concern I do have is that not one of them appears to be thriving on the challenge and kicking on. IMO each and everyone of them is performing at a lower level than they were last year.

Only Cummings would come close ( in goal terms anyway) which makes Lennon's treatment of him quite puzzling

Agree with all that although not sure about the last point.

Only a few weeks ago he was wining and dining Cummings in Paris with the likes Alan Shearer or Gary Lineker. He has played Cummings consistently. I don't think one or two interviews we has been critical of aspects of his play amount to 'treatment'. All of them were followed up with raving about him as a finisher and as a person and saying how far he can go in the game.

I think the players need to get used to how Lennon speaks and I am sure privately they are all totally aware of what Lennon thinks about them.

He was asked recently about the difference between himself and Marvin Bartley. He responded that the main difference was that he was good. I'm sure Bartley isn't crying himself to sleep at night over it!

BSEJVT
11-10-2016, 03:17 PM
Agree with all that although not sure about the last point.

Only a few weeks ago he was wining and dining Cummings in Paris with the likes Alan Shearer or Gary Lineker. He has played Cummings consistently. I don't think one or two interviews we has been critical of aspects of his play amount to 'treatment'. All of them were followed up with raving about him as a finisher and as a person and saying how far he can go in the game.

I think the players need to get used to how Lennon speaks and I am sure privately they are all totally aware of what Lennon thinks about them.

He was asked recently about the difference between himself and Marvin Bartley. He responded that the main difference was that he was good. I'm sure Bartley isn't crying himself to sleep at night over it!

Fair point

Treatment was maybe a bit harsh, I do fund dropping him a bit odd though when despite his overall play being poor he is our only consistent goal threat.

I do wonder whether Lennon's press and private utterings are the same.

He has built a reputation both as player and manager as an uncompromising character.

I hope that there is more than that string to his bow, the "hairdryer" treatment wont work for all IMO.

Maybe he thinks that if it doesn't you don't have the mental fortitude to be successful?

I wouldn't know which if either of these opinions accurately portrays him.

Hibs is huge deal for him also, I would go as far as to say that if he mucks this up his managerial career is toast.

JDHibs
11-10-2016, 03:47 PM
Thats probably been the problem, the Scottish cup win gave the players too much confidence and belief and thought they would come back and walk this league. Just as the fans had thought aswell may i add.

Ive seen countless threads and comments saying we should skoosh this league. We dont deserve to win the league because we are Hibernian FC. People should stop disrespecting these teams, they are mostly well organised, with experienced older players surrounded by youth.

We have been bettered several times this season already and multiple times last season by managers and teams who set up to be hard to beat against us. Stubbs' tactics were awful in this league and ive yet to see Lennon do anything different, i.e slow tempo with a diamond, no width.

Several players are not playing to their usual standards, McGinn, McGeough, Shinnie, Holt, Hanlon (At left back) and its creating issues for us.

From what im hearing the whole squad has had a "clear the air" talk between the playing squad and the management squad to get to the bottom of this and start winning again. They know themselves that this isnt acceptable and will try and rectify it.

G B Young
11-10-2016, 05:16 PM
The Scottish cup win glossed over the fact that we were nowhere near the finished article. Had we lost that match there would have been shouts for a radical overhaul of the playing squad and management. Would never change it for the world, but we were all guilty of heaping praise on players at the end of the season who were 15 minutes away from having an poor season. Apart from Lennon, not a lot has changed. New signings are arguably not as good as those we no longer have. And we are underperforming. For the 3rd year in a row. Confidence can only cover inadequacy for so long.

Even if we'd lost the Scottish Cup final I don't think, when you assess the history of the club, that last season could have been deemed 'poor'. Reaching both cup finals was an exceptional feat for a Championship club and one that will never likely be repeated. Yes, we failed to get promoted but I think it's fair to say we spread ourselves very thin by competing on three fronts for so long and in the end it cost us promotion.

green day
11-10-2016, 05:24 PM
Players out for a team bonding day today. Think they all recognise things need to freshen up.

Sure we will turn corner soon.

beensaidbefore
11-10-2016, 05:41 PM
Even if we'd lost the Scottish Cup final I don't think, when you assess the history of the club, that last season could have been deemed 'poor'. Reaching both cup finals was an exceptional feat for a Championship club and one that will never likely be repeated. Yes, we failed to get promoted but I think it's fair to say we spread ourselves very thin by competing on three fronts for so long and in the end it cost us promotion.

Perhaps poor is a bit much. Disappointing would probably describe it better. I agree with what you say, but I do remember a few on here expressing dissatisfaction with Stubbs and some of the squad prior to the cup win. I think most of those feelings were put to the side after the heroics and it would have been met with derision had the players mentality been questioned in the preseason before the kick of a ball. Couple of months in, we are out 2 cups and league form is far from acceptable if we hope to get promoted. I genuinely believe the cup win papered over a few cracks.

Let's hope we get it together iin the next couple of weeks and get the job done. Otherwise we will have a very poor season this time round.😉

G B Young
11-10-2016, 06:17 PM
Perhaps poor is a bit much. Disappointing would probably describe it better. I agree with what you say, but I do remember a few on here expressing dissatisfaction with Stubbs and some of the squad prior to the cup win. I think most of those feelings were put to the side after the heroics and it would have been met with derision had the players mentality been questioned in the preseason before the kick of a ball. Couple of months in, we are out 2 cups and league form is far from acceptable if we hope to get promoted. I genuinely believe the cup win papered over a few cracks.<br>
<br>
Let's hope we get it together iin the next couple of weeks and get the job done. Otherwise we will have a very poor season this time round.��

Yes I think that's fair comment. It's just deeply frustrating that at the first sign of things not going according to plan players who you'd think might have developed a thicker skin after their Hampden exploits are so quick to fade. They really should be wanting to take this league by the scruff of the neck and utterly boss it. Well organised or not, most of the teams in this league should not be coming to Easter Road and thinking 'we can pick something up here'. Yet the way things are going that's exactly what they're thinking.

Keith_M
11-10-2016, 07:00 PM
How long should the euphoria have lasted?


:confused:

Borderhibbie76
11-10-2016, 07:08 PM
I don't think the confidence issues are restricted to the players. It seems to me that it is the confidence of the fans that has taken the biggest kicking over the past few weeks.

We won our first 5 league games and gave Brondby a very tough tie in Europe. Since then we've had a bit of a wobble.

We're only a point off top of the league. Lennon has tinkered with his team and will have (hopefully) learned a lot from this.

We need to back our manager and the players who won us that cup. They haven't become bad players overnight, and we mustn't talk our wobble into a full-blown crisis.

Lennon needs to be brave and confident too. He has the tools - he just needs to find the way to use them again.

Whilst our recent form is a bit worrying, I don't think it is time to panic yet. It's all about the league and some inept performances in cups may actually turn out to be a good thing, as long as we learn from them.
Good post Smartie - most sensible I've read on here in weeks 👏👏

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

JimBHibees
12-10-2016, 06:36 AM
How long should the euphoria have lasted?


:confused:

A period equal to when we last won it. :greengrin

JimBHibees
12-10-2016, 06:38 AM
Even if we'd lost the Scottish Cup final I don't think, when you assess the history of the club, that last season could have been deemed 'poor'. Reaching both cup finals was an exceptional feat for a Championship club and one that will never likely be repeated. Yes, we failed to get promoted but I think it's fair to say we spread ourselves very thin by competing on three fronts for so long and in the end it cost us promotion.

Also need to take into account we were utterly shafted by the referee in the first play off game.

J-C
12-10-2016, 07:27 AM
Does anyone else not think that the players have become overly confident and complacent since winning the cup, they've been bigged up ever since and maybe they believe all they have to do is just turn up, I must admit the last couple games at ER they've been very lackadaisical.

JDHibs
12-10-2016, 09:25 AM
How long should the euphoria have lasted?


:confused:

For the players? Until the start of pre season.

For the fans? Forever!

HENDERSON TO DELIVEEERRRRRR

makaveli1875
12-10-2016, 10:08 AM
Well Stokes who scored two in the cup final and Henderson who got two assists off the bench are not part of the squad. Not suitably replacing two of our best players can't help.

stokes was always going to be nigh on impossible to replace , strikers of his quality dont come cheap and we were very lucky to get him last season . as for henderson i would have thought shinnie was a good replacement for him as our attacking midfielder , he just has to start showing it

HUTCHYHIBBY
12-10-2016, 11:10 AM
Hibs poor run of results seems to have coincided with Holt being dropped.

J-C
12-10-2016, 11:29 AM
Hibs poor run of results seems to have coincided with Holt being dropped.


He was in the team that got humped 1-3 by QOS in he Betfred cup.

I put it down to too much tinkering by Lennon who started off with 3 at the back, then went to a flat back 4, he's tried the diamond, 3 up top and 4-4-2 with wingers, I just don't think the players know what system they're meant to be playing, I don't think Lennon knows what the hell he is doing either, all scatter gun approach.

MacGruber
12-10-2016, 11:33 AM
I would be less worried if I thought it was confidence. I think it's formation, shape and tactics. Far too cautious and one dimensional. We are easy to set up against now and don't look to have much of a game plan. Lack of width and pace is the problem - it was the problem last year too but we coped better because we were better through the middle with players given the freedom to play and interchange. There was more fluency in the team. Now it's more rigid and disciplined and direct - and sore on the eyes!

It's early days though.

Dashing Bob S
12-10-2016, 12:18 PM
Raith and Dunfermline will determine if this is a wobble or a mini crisis.

Wilson
12-10-2016, 03:41 PM
A period equal to when we last won it. :greengrin

I'm hoping for less - the period until we next win it!