If anyone thinks the falling pound doesn't matter that much, here's something to cont

[Hibbyradge]

That was supposed to say "contemplate"!

In March, I paid around £4500 for 2 business class flights from Sydney to Edinburgh with Qatar airways. (We had booked with BA using Avios for the outward journey, but there were no return flights available.)

Due to a serious family illness, I have now had to cancel these flights so Qatar have charged me $380 Aus cancellation fee as they weren't fully flexible.

I have just received an email, however, advising me that my refund will be Aus $8946 which now exchanges to £5439.80. Incredible. Nearly £1000 drop in the pound's value in 6 months.

I'm not in profit overall, though, because we had booked internal flights to places like Ayers Rock, Cairns and Brisbane and none of those are refundable. Their total cost was about £1000, but the falling pound has helped offset our losses.

Just wait till it hits the shops.

[Hibbyradge]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/10/pound-continues-to-fall-against-dollar-and-euro-amid-hard-brexit-fears?CMP=twt_gu

[steakbake]

The poorest performing currency of 2016 so far. Near parity with the Euro - which apparently, is a terrible currency.

[Hibbyradge]

Near parity with the Euro - which apparently, is a terrible currency.

Good point.

[Geo_1875]

Heard on BBC this morning how wonderful it is as tourists from USA/China/Europe are piling in and enjoying cheap holidays and boosting our economy. American couple reckoned they'd spend $1,500 on their jaunt to jolly old England. Done that on a long weekend up North.

[RyeSloan]

Thing is though that as we can see on the FTSE the weak pound is a boon for our exporters and the current account deficit.

The flip side of course is more expensive imports and thus inflation...but as the BoE has a target of 2% and it's been under that for what seems like forever then a devalued currency is I assume exactly what they want.

You never know it might result in the BoE stopping their crazy money printing and bond buying (they seem to think buying Apple bonds will boost the UK economy [emoji849]) so maybe it's not such a bad thing after all....

And for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the weak pound I've not seen too much commentary as to why it is such a disaster when central banks around the world have been trying to do exactly that to their currencies for years..Kuroda must be looking on enviously!

[Hibby Bairn]

Just wait till it hits the shops.

But will make UK made goods more competitive. Made/grown and bought within UK so no currency impact v imports which will be more expensive and therefore less competitive.

In theory could have a positive impact on UK jobs.

[NAE NOOKIE]

But will make UK made goods more competitive. Made/grown and bought within UK so no currency impact v imports which will be more expensive and therefore less competitive.

In theory could have a positive impact on UK jobs.

Swings and roundabouts ...... the devalued pound might be good for companies who export and they may well take on more employees. But companies who see a rise in profits rarely pass that on to their employees in wage rises, its cold comfort to your average working person to hear that the economy is doing well overall when the affect on them is that their wages doesn't go as far. Petrol is allegedly about to go up as much as 5p a litre due to amongst other things higher import costs, that will make everything more expensive.

[Hibbyradge]

But will make UK made goods more competitive. Made/grown and bought within UK so no currency impact v imports which will be more expensive and therefore less competitive.

In theory could have a positive impact on UK jobs.

Manufacturing in the UK is negligible.

[RyeSloan]

Manufacturing in the UK is negligible.

But exports in general are not. Anything priced in GBP including the huge services sector that makes up the majority of our exports becomes significantly more competitive.

Not saying there is no down sides because there are but a reduction in the current account deficit and improved profitability of exporters is a clear benefit of a devalued currency...that is after all how the system is meant to check and balance itself.

[RyeSloan]

Swings and roundabouts ...... the devalued pound might be good for companies who export and they may well take on more employees. But companies who see a rise in profits rarely pass that on to their employees in wage rises, its cold comfort to your average working person to hear that the economy is doing well overall when the affect on them is that their wages doesn't go as far. Petrol is allegedly about to go up as much as 5p a litre due to amongst other things higher import costs, that will make everything more expensive.

Leaving your assumption aside re wage rises (although my experience suggests otherwise) Companies making increased profits are surely much more likely to invest and hire...are you suggesting that rising profits in companies is a bad thing?

As for people's money not going as far...there is many reasons for that, not least central bank and government meddling, a depreciating pound may only be a part of that story and as I said previously the BoE actually has an inflation target that has not been met for many months so it's official policy to actually make people's money worth less on an annual basis!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Manufacturing in the UK is negligible.

I may ne wrong but i had thought that the uk is still quite a major manufacturing centre? I just heard that somewhere

[Hibbyradge]

I may ne wrong but i had thought that the uk is still quite a major manufacturing centre? I just heard that somewhere

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/11/crash-pound-delusion-brexit-britain-flourish?CMP=fb_gu

[jodjam]

Most of my business is from US and since pound has struggled I've had a stack of Americans wanting to pay their bills well in advance. Not making me richer just money hitting my account so much quicker

[RyeSloan]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/11/crash-pound-delusion-brexit-britain-flourish?CMP=fb_gu

Personally I think that article is a lot of wind n pish...

Maybe a slightly more balanced view might be found here..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/why-the-plummeting-pound-sterling-is-good-news-for-britain-a7353846.html

As ever in these things there is plenty of opinions and views and there is always winners and losers no matter what happens.

[Jack]

This time last year the commercial rate for the Turkish Lira was around 4.4 to the £

Since then Turkey has seen an increase in internal unrest with a series of high profile bombings; they've shot down 2 Russian fighter jets in an escalation of external unrest around Syria; there was a failed coup in July that left 100s dead, 1,000s injured, 10s of thousands arrested. As a result the fairly substantial tourist industry was battered.

All the UK did was vote for Brexit.

The same rate now is 3.8 Lira to the £

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/11/crash-pound-delusion-brexit-britain-flourish?CMP=fb_gu

9th biggest manufacturer in the world by output in 2014 according to a parliamentaty breifing paper, although per head its slightly lower than comparator countries, and a lot lower than manufacturing heavyweights

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Personally I think that article is a lot of wind n pish...

Maybe a slightly more balanced view might be found here..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/why-the-plummeting-pound-sterling-is-good-news-for-britain-a7353846.html

As ever in these things there is plenty of opinions and views and there is always winners and losers no matter what happens.

Interesting.

What i take from all of this is that nobody knows whether it is good or bad - yet.

But thise with an axe to grind will jump on anything that they think/hope suupports their argument.

Which seems daft to me because weve had the argument and the decision has been made.

Its getting like the neverending indyref.

[Geo_1875]

Interesting.

What i take from all of this is that nobody knows whether it is good or bad - yet.

But thise with an axe to grind will jump on anything that they think/hope suupports their argument.

Which seems daft to me because weve had the argument and the decision has been made.

Its getting like the neverending indyref.

I hope there is a lot more arguing to be done because if we're left in the hands of the Tories there will be no benefit to leaving the EU for ordinary working people.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I hope there is a lot more arguing to be done because if we're left in the hands of the Tories there will be no benefit to leaving the EU for ordinary working people.

You mean our elected government. Well yes, that is exactly whose hands we are in, and they will be held to account by parliament.

[RyeSloan]

I hope there is a lot more arguing to be done because if we're left in the hands of the Tories there will be no benefit to leaving the EU for ordinary working people.

In what way exactly?

[Colr]

Just ordering up my new kitchen. All the units (made in the UK) are the same price as 6 months ago but all the appliances (from Germany) have gone up quite a bit.

If they add tariffs after Brexit we'll have to start making things again - or importning them from other Countries that we have free trade agreements with.

[Geo_1875]

In what way exactly?

In the way that the Government's attitude to workers rights stinks and they are only held in check by EU legislation, eg working hours directives. In the way that economic benefits are rarely passed on to workers, eg big businesses sitting on their capital rather than investing in staff.

[RyeSloan]

In the way that the Government's attitude to workers rights stinks and they are only held in check by EU legislation, eg working hours directives. In the way that economic benefits are rarely passed on to workers, eg big businesses sitting on their capital rather than investing in staff.

What evidence is there that the government is only held in check by EU legislation? Or indeed that the EU legislation is the best solution? Considering we have been bound by EU legislation for so long I'm struggling to see what actual evidence there is for such sweeping assumptions. You may be right of course but ones mans workers protection is another man's restriction on business. You only need to look at France and Italy for 'workers protections' that ultimately impact the ability or desire for companies to hire full time employees and the unemployment (especially in younger age groups) that those bring.

As for companies not passing on economic benefits to their workers...not sure what the government role is in that regard. Good companies value their staff and reward them appropriately, bad ones don't but quite what the EU or the Tories bring to that party I'm not clear on.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Leaving your assumption aside re wage rises (although my experience suggests otherwise) Companies making increased profits are surely much more likely to invest and hire...are you suggesting that rising profits in companies is a bad thing?

As for people's money not going as far...there is many reasons for that, not least central bank and government meddling, a depreciating pound may only be a part of that story and as I said previously the BoE actually has an inflation target that has not been met for many months so it's official policy to actually make people's money worth less on an annual basis!

I agreed that companies would probably hire more in my post and also that profits may go up, at least for for exporting companies. But all that aside the fact remains that for an ordinary family living in the UK the good financial health of company owners, directors and shareholders making the 'footsie' look good and the economy appear strong is cold comfort for them if everything from a pint of milk to a TV costs more because the pound in their pocket is worth less and imports are more expensive.

I'm no financial expert and I'm happy to take on board your second paragraph .... but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that even if brexit isn't a bad thing for the economy overall, it certainly appears that its going to be a bad thing for the poor bloody workers in their day to day lives, at least for the who knows how many years it will take for the rest of the world to come flocking to our door desperate to sign massive trade deals which will apparently be far more valuable to us than anything we could have got as part of or from Europe.

[Glory Lurker]

What evidence is there that the government is only held in check by EU legislation? Or indeed that the EU legislation is the best solution? Considering we have been bound by EU legislation for so long I'm struggling to see what actual evidence there is for such sweeping assumptions. You may be right of course but ones mans workers protection is another man's restriction on business. You only need to look at France and Italy for 'workers protections' that ultimately impact the ability or desire for companies to hire full time employees and the unemployment (especially in younger age groups) that those bring.



We will see, but personally I think that the Tories will start rolling back employee rights as soon as they can.

The France/Italy set-up is irrelevant to the UK. Rather than point out employment regimes that are nothing to do with us, could you say what areas of UK, EU-driven arrangements you would do away with or alter, and why - if any at all?

[steakbake]

Unilever apparently asked Tesco to raise prices on their products by 10%. Tesco said GTF. Unilever now to pull their products out of Tesco.

We're all Lidl and Aldi shoppers now.

[Hibbyradge]

Unilever apparently asked Tesco to raise prices on their products by 10%. Tesco said GTF. Unilever now to pull their products out of Tesco.

We're all Lidl and Aldi shoppers now.

Lidl and Aldi are German. They charge in Euros.

We're doomed.

[RyeSloan]

I agreed that companies would probably hire more in my post and also that profits may go up, at least for for exporting companies. But all that aside the fact remains that for an ordinary family living in the UK the good financial health of company owners, directors and shareholders making the 'footsie' look good and the economy appear strong is cold comfort for them if everything from a pint of milk to a TV costs more because the pound in their pocket is worth less and imports are more expensive.

I'm no financial expert and I'm happy to take on board your second paragraph .... but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that even if brexit isn't a bad thing for the economy overall, it certainly appears that its going to be a bad thing for the poor bloody workers in their day to day lives, at least for the who knows how many years it will take for the rest of the world to come flocking to our door desperate to sign massive trade deals which will apparently be far more valuable to us than anything we could have got as part of or from Europe.

Yup I'm not gonna disagree on that...inflation hurts if people's wages (or benefits) don't keep pace that's for sure.

Still it remains a fact that official BoE policy is 2% inflation and they have effectively broken all norms in a desperate attempt to prevent deflation (where everyone's pound would go further!)...

Brexit or not it's a royal mess either way to be honest.

[RyeSloan]

We will see, but personally I think that the Tories will start rolling back employee rights as soon as they can.

The France/Italy set-up is irrelevant to the UK. Rather than point out employment regimes that are nothing to do with us, could you say what areas of UK, EU-driven arrangements you would do away with or alter, and why - if any at all?

It's not irrelevant...they are very good examples where laws that protect workers employment actually end up doing more harm than good. Great if you have a job for life and effectively can't be made redundant but not so great for the huge swathes of people that go unemployed because firms are too scared to hire.

As for what I would change, no idea! It's wasn't me that is stating that these rights would be rolled back I was merely asking for evidence of what would suggest that such a roll back would happen due to alleged stinking attitudes.

However one example might be HGV driver rules...I know a wee bit about these and they are so restrictive that an honest driver struggles to get any overtime..if they drive an extra shift at the weekend then it costs them time later. I'm not an expert in any way though but it does seem a tad unfair that people on low incomes are prevented from earning extra cash due to such prescriptive rules. Maybe they need to be so prescriptive for safety sake I dunno but as I said employment legislation is not in any way my specialised subject!

[Glory Lurker]

It's not irrelevant...they are very good examples where laws that protect workers employment actually end up doing more harm than good. Great if you have a job for life and effectively can't be made redundant but not so great for the huge swathes of people that go unemployed because firms are too scared to hire.

As for what I would change, no idea! It's wasn't me that is stating that these rights would be rolled back I was merely asking for evidence of what would suggest that such a roll back would happen due to alleged stinking attitudes.

However one example might be HGV driver rules...I know a wee bit about these and they are so restrictive that an honest driver struggles to get any overtime..if they drive an extra shift at the weekend then it costs them time later. I'm not an expert in any way though but it does seem a tad unfair that people on low incomes are prevented from earning extra cash due to such prescriptive rules. Maybe they need to be so prescriptive for safety sake I dunno but as I said employment legislation is not in any way my specialised subject!

Thanks. Interesting one about the lorries. Is this employment or health & safety, though? I'm no expert either.

I get what you're saying about France/Italy, but the point is that they have protections beyond what we have in the UK. I don't think there is any demand for us to expand rights to that extent. My concern is that we will contract what we have. I think it is inevitable that it will happen. Our governments will only at their most liberal be centre-right and will be responsive to employers' requests to chip away at this and that.

Depressing stuff!

[RyeSloan]

Thanks. Interesting one about the lorries. Is this employment or health & safety, though? I'm no expert either.

I get what you're saying about France/Italy, but the point is that they have protections beyond what we have in the UK. I don't think there is any demand for us to expand rights to that extent. My concern is that we will contract what we have. I think it is inevitable that it will happen. Our governments will only at their most liberal be centre-right and will be responsive to employers' requests to chip away at this and that.

Depressing stuff!

Aye fair enough we all have our own perspective I suppose [emoji106]

Personally I'm never wedded to the concept of what is in place can't be changed or improved especially when it's legislation and even more so when it's legislation that's came out of a decision making machine like the EU.

As with everything though there is a balance to be struck esp. when it comes to employment rights and encouraging a flexible but well paid workforce. It's not an easy thing to get right so if there is change mooted I'm pretty open to hearing what it is and why before getting too depressed at the potential prospect of it.

[steakbake]

FT leads tomorrow that UK is liable for £20bn share of joint financial liabilities. The good news keeps on coming. But you know, once we're past this tricky bit, we can get a trade deal with Australia...

[Colr]

Lidl and Aldi are German. They charge in Euros.

We're doomed.

Will a dose of inflation decrease the national debt?

[RyeSloan]

Will a dose of inflation decrease the national debt?

Decreases everyone's debt...it's pretty much the only viable solution to a debt crisis and one we've not yet solved despite what Carney, Gideon or anyone else says.

So inflation bad or inflation good? [emoji33] [emoji33]

[Moulin Yarns]

It's not irrelevant...they are very good examples where laws that protect workers employment actually end up doing more harm than good. Great if you have a job for life and effectively can't be made redundant but not so great for the huge swathes of people that go unemployed because firms are too scared to hire.

As for what I would change, no idea! It's wasn't me that is stating that these rights would be rolled back I was merely asking for evidence of what would suggest that such a roll back would happen due to alleged stinking attitudes.

However one example might be HGV driver rules...I know a wee bit about these and they are so restrictive that an honest driver struggles to get any overtime..if they drive an extra shift at the weekend then it costs them time later. I'm not an expert in any way though but it does seem a tad unfair that people on low incomes are prevented from earning extra cash due to such prescriptive rules. Maybe they need to be so prescriptive for safety sake I dunno but as I said employment legislation is not in any way my specialised subject!

define low income? if you mean lorry drivers, here is some enlightenment, average salary is around £25k, starting around £18.5k and rising to around £36k basic. or around £15 an hour. Well above the 'living wage'

[Allant1981]

define low income? if you mean lorry drivers, here is some enlightenment, average salary is around £25k, starting around £18.5k and rising to around £36k basic. or around £15 an hour. Well above the 'living wage'

Tanker drivers possibly, most class 1 drivers(or what was class 1) are earning between £9-£12 per hour so not exactly the 36k per year you quote, years ago yes the money was there, not so much now

[jonty]

Tesco having negotiation 'issues' with unilever, so letting stock run out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37639518

Not a direct impact of impending brexit, it's fallout from currency issues. what a ****ing mess.

[Moulin Yarns]

Tanker drivers possibly, most class 1 drivers(or what was class 1) are earning between £9-£12 per hour so not exactly the 36k per year you quote, years ago yes the money was there, not so much now

This is one of the sites I found info.



Income

Starting salaries can be between £18,000 and £22,000 a year. With experience, this can rise to between £23,000 and £28,000.

Drivers of specialist fuel and chemical tankers can earn between £27,000 and £35,000 a year.

Overtime can increase these figures.

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/largegoodsvehicledriver.aspx

[Allant1981]

This is one of the sites I found info.


https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/largegoodsvehicledriver.aspx

So pretty much what i said then!

[Moulin Yarns]

So pretty much what i said then!

starting salary. :wink:

[Allant1981]

starting salary. :wink:

Im a logistics manager so i know what the going rate is believe me

[RyeSloan]

Carney showing again today that it's inflation at all costs...his words are typical central banker but his joy at the prospect of inflation finally arriving back on our shores is clear to see...and he's already quite happy for it to overshoot his 2% target.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Is there a case to bring back direct control of the BoE back into government / parliament?

Should somebody so central to all our wellbeing really be unaccountable to our government and our parliament?

[RyeSloan]

Is there a case to bring back direct control of the BoE back into government / parliament?

Should somebody so central to all our wellbeing really be unaccountable to our government and our parliament?

I suppose he is appointed by the Prime Minister so is independent only in name.

You also have to remember he who has the biggest debt wins the biggest with his polices....wonder who that could be...[emoji14]

[500miles]

The bottom line is costs to your average man in the street will shoot upwards, and business is rarely quick to raise salaries to compensate, regardless off any increased profits.

This isn't a good thing.