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Islington Hibs
08-10-2016, 07:06 PM
I was not at the game today so perhaps my comments should be discounted but we have really struggled this season. Even in most of the games we have won we have not been that fluent.

I had concerns when Lennon was appointed- I think he saw Hibs simply as an easy way to rebuild his career which had hit the buffers at Bolton assuming we were a shoe in for promotion. We are not. He need stop pretending he is a big time manager and focus on Hibs and getting us out of the the second tier of Scottish football. We are probably still favourites but lets not fool ourselves performances will need to improve big time if that is to be reality. The players he has brought in, so far, are not an improvement on the ones we lost and we seem to have lost of that real team spirit Stubbs built. I am not fussed we out out of this nothing cup but I am fussed that we have not won in four and we kicked out the League Cup at home to Championship opposition. The next two or three games are pretty critical against Raith, Dunfermiline and St Mirren- target 3 wins -7 points as a minimum really. We need much better and more determined performances.

The tragedy is the opportunity has never been greater. Our gates are about the best for 40, yes 40, years, but there is a real danger that the goodwill of the cup win will be spilt.

bingo70
08-10-2016, 07:18 PM
I think you might get some stick for this post but I agree with pretty much all of it.

IMO it suited all parties for him to come in and get us promoted this season and he's just assumed that's what'll happen, been a few early blips and it doesn't appear he's dealt with that well.

emerald green
08-10-2016, 07:25 PM
If Hibs don't get promoted at the end of this season, there won't be 11,000 season tickets sold next season. That's a certainty. There won't be as many PATG either.

This in turn will be reflected in the quality of player the club can retain and attract to the club. They will have to sell McGinn and Cummings, and possibly Paul Hanlon.

Famous Fiver
08-10-2016, 07:33 PM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.

madhatter
08-10-2016, 07:35 PM
If Hibs don't get promoted at the end of this season, there won't be 11,000 season tickets sold next season. That's a certainty. There won't be as many PATG either.

This in turn will be reflected in the quality of player the club can retain and attract to the club. They will have to sell McGinn and Cummings, and possibly Paul Hanlon.

Don't really care who we need to sell to build a team capable of winning this league and getting us up where we belong. This group of players including Cummings, McGinn and Hanlon are not showing themselves as good enough.

Onion
08-10-2016, 07:46 PM
Don't really care who we need to sell to build a team capable of winning this league and getting us up where we belong. This group of players including Cummings, McGinn and Hanlon are not showing themselves as good enough.

We all know there is nothing wrong with the quality of player we have at ER. It's a Prem quality squad playing in the Championship. With no Sevco in the league, this is 100% a management issue. Lennon is on the hook for this.

Fife-Hibee
08-10-2016, 07:47 PM
If Hibs don't get promoted at the end of this season, there won't be 11,000 season tickets sold next season. That's a certainty. There won't be as many PATG either.

This in turn will be reflected in the quality of player the club can retain and attract to the club. They will have to sell McGinn and Cummings, and possibly Paul Hanlon.

If these players aren't good enough to get us up this season' then they are welcome to f..k off !!

Big L
08-10-2016, 07:47 PM
He wasn't my choice, I wanted McKay, however, I was pleased at the start the team made! I thought he was handed a good team at Celtic and he had John Park running around all over europe bringing in quality players. The first chance he got to really manage, which was at Bolton he absolutely blew it, they are going really well now though! How he could have played Hanlon at LB after last week's performance spoke volumes to me, he had Lewis on the bench or he could have put Crane in.

greenlex
08-10-2016, 07:48 PM
We all know there is nothing wrong with the quality of player we have at ER. It's a Prem quality squad playing in the Championship. With no Sevco in the league, this is 100% a management issue. Lennon is on the hook for this.

100% this. Lennon needs to go and quick.

Hi Heid Yin
08-10-2016, 07:49 PM
Don't really care who we need to sell to build a team capable of winning this league and getting us up where we belong. This group of players including Cummings, McGinn and Hanlon are not showing themselves as good enough.

This is the harsh reality of it. These players and others just as talented could only manage a 3rd place finish last season.

emerald green
08-10-2016, 07:50 PM
If these players aren't good enough to get us up this season' then they are welcome to f..k off !!

That's fine by me too. But my point is whether the club would be able to get in any better if the club is consigned to a fourth consecutive season in the second tier of Scottish football.

Jim44
08-10-2016, 07:50 PM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.

Remind me when we we were in the Championship or the old Second Division for three years in succession?

Mr White
08-10-2016, 07:53 PM
This is the harsh reality of it. These players and others just as talented could only manage a 3rd place finish last season.

That's not the only thing they managed though is it?

660
08-10-2016, 07:57 PM
I really wish Lennon would stop talking about Celtic. Any time he is asked a question about Celtic the reply should be "I don't care - I am the hibs manager"

I welcomed his appointment but Ive been concerned ever since the summer when punditry seemed to affect our preparation.

Lennon arrogance is starting to appear complacent and if he continues to have such a negative affect on the club, we should get rid by xmas.

Jim44
08-10-2016, 08:01 PM
That's not the only thing they managed though is it?

No it isn't but when will the kudos from that success cease to protect them from the shambles they have become in the last few weeks?

Hi Heid Yin
08-10-2016, 08:02 PM
That's not the only thing they managed though is it?

The Scottish Cup win remains legendary and the stuff of dreams for every Hibby, but that is not the issue - our poor league form is what we are focusing on in this thread.

Famous Fiver
08-10-2016, 08:03 PM
I meant by my remarks that we have been here many times that things have looked pretty bleak with poor results many times.

By coming good when it matters I was referring to the Scottish Cup Final.

Anything else you would like spelled out?

Mr White
08-10-2016, 08:03 PM
No it isn't but when will the kudos from that success cease to protect them from the shambles they have become in the last few weeks?

I didn't suggest it does or it should.

Mr White
08-10-2016, 08:05 PM
The Scottish Cup win remains legendary and the stuff of dreams for every Hibby, but that is not the issue - our poor league form is what we are focusing on in this thread.

But you're using last season's performance as evidence to slate the players you mention. Only you're being very selective in doing so.

Fife-Hibee
08-10-2016, 08:12 PM
That's fine by me too. But my point is whether the club would be able to get in any better if the club is consigned to a fourth consecutive season in the second tier of Scottish football.

It doesn't bare thinking about mate :(

Hi Heid Yin
08-10-2016, 08:16 PM
But you're using last season's performance as evidence to slate the players you mention. Only you're being very selective in doing so.

Now you're being silly. You know fine well I'm referring to last seasons performances in the league and the league only! We were poor in the league and finished 3rd behind Falkirk, which was actually quite embarrassing, with all due respect to Falkirk.

Jim44
08-10-2016, 08:19 PM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.


Remind me when we we were in the Championship or the old Second Division for three years in succession?


I meant by my remarks that we have been here many times that things have looked pretty bleak with poor results many times.

By coming good when it matters I was referring to the Scottish Cup Final.

Anything else you would like spelled out?

Nah, don't bother. Your spelling's not very convincing.

Ronniekirk
08-10-2016, 08:20 PM
I really wish Lennon would stop talking about Celtic. Any time he is asked a question about Celtic the reply should be "I don't care - I am the hibs manager"

I welcomed his appointment but Ive been concerned ever since the summer when punditry seemed to affect our preparation.

Lennon arrogance is starting to appear complacent and if he continues to have such a negative affect on the club, we should get rid by xmas.
He is the Highest PaidManager in our Hostory Allegedley So he neefs to start esrning that Salary We wont be able to pay him off

GreenCastle
08-10-2016, 08:22 PM
We do have good players but just played in odd formations and the balance isn't right.

We are missing wide players and speed though - but our style of play and build up is far too slow which allows teams to sit in and frustrate us.

We started the season well and were controlling games with possession and scoring goals but last 4 have been like we have gone back in time to the Butcher days without a proper plan.

I would go back to players that started the season well and add some youth to freshen the team up alongside the experience.

Mr White
08-10-2016, 08:27 PM
We were poor in the league and finished 3rd behind Falkirk.

We reached both national cup finals, winning one and finished behind falkirk on goal difference. If our league performance was poor (which it was times, most notably against Dumbarton, alloa and morton) then our cup performances against better opposition must surely be of equal consideration when judging these players imo.

You seem very quick to pass judgement (on league performance only of course so let's ignore what happened today?) on players without any sensible perspective as I see it. I'd prefer to wait and see how things pan out in the next few weeks before sharpening knives for players who by any reasonable measurement have performed well so far in their short hibs careers.

Captain Trips
08-10-2016, 08:32 PM
If we fail to go up then its a failure from the very top. 4 seasons down here totally unacceptable.

The Green Goblin
08-10-2016, 08:38 PM
100% this. Lennon needs to go and quick.

You think he should be sacked?

greenlex
08-10-2016, 08:44 PM
You think he should be sacked?

Yes. I have seen one performance all season. He's taken a decent squad and added two strikers who should be scoring lots in this league not counting Keatings and Cummings and turned them all into pish. Does he know his best 11? Baffling team selections at times and unable or unwilling to change things during a game. I think we should change before the real damage is done and I'm not really one for change for changes sake. The feel good factor has masked poor displayed but that's about done. Out now.

VivaPalmeiras
08-10-2016, 08:48 PM
He wasn't my choice, I wanted McKay, however, I was pleased at the start the team made! I thought he was handed a good team at Celtic and he had John Park running around all over europe bringing in quality players. The first chance he got to really manage, which was at Bolton he absolutely blew it, they are going really well now though! How he could have played Hanlon at LB after last week's performance spoke volumes to me, he had Lewis on the bench or he could have put Crane in.

And the circumstances at Bolton were conducive for a period of sustained success?

660
08-10-2016, 08:51 PM
He wasn't my choice, I wanted McKay, however, I was pleased at the start the team made! I thought he was handed a good team at Celtic and he had John Park running around all over europe bringing in quality players. The first chance he got to really manage, which was at Bolton he absolutely blew it, they are going really well now though! How he could have played Hanlon at LB after last week's performance spoke volumes to me, he had Lewis on the bench or he could have put Crane in.

Bolton are in a lower league now so not really a fair comparison.

Steve20
08-10-2016, 08:53 PM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that's true.

Mr White
08-10-2016, 08:58 PM
Bolton are in a lower league now so not really a fair comparison.

Today was also their first win after 3 league defeats and a draw in which they didn't score a goal. Today's win was by an own-goal. Hardly going well.

Hi Heid Yin
08-10-2016, 09:42 PM
We reached both national cup finals, winning one and finished behind falkirk on goal difference. If our league performance was poor (which it was times, most notably against Dumbarton, alloa and morton) then our cup performances against better opposition must surely be of equal consideration when judging these players imo.

You seem very quick to pass judgement (on league performance only of course so let's ignore what happened today?) on players without any sensible perspective as I see it. I'd prefer to wait and see how things pan out in the next few weeks before sharpening knives for players who by any reasonable measurement have performed well so far in their short hibs careers.

Like most Hibbies, I too have waited to see what will happen in the next few weeks - been doing that for the last 3 years, including the scandalous Butcher relegation run-in, where we could not obtain that solitary point to save us from the play offs - I waited for the next few weeks as we went on that abysmal run in the league last season Feb through March, where we lost touch with The Rangers and could not haul-in Falkirk. Passing judgment (your phrase) I prefer to use the word "critique" is not done lightly or as you say "quick" - It's based on our record with predominantly the same core of players over a considerable period of time. When I see the same failings being repeated this season (league games only) I have every right to critique and to be concerned. I always add that I want to believe and trust in lennon to get it sorted. I still maintain this position

underscore
08-10-2016, 09:43 PM
Despite the shouts....we cannot play winger as we have none of any quality. diamond and over lap will win us this league

Big L
08-10-2016, 10:29 PM
Bolton are in a lower league now so not really a fair comparison.

I know, he took them there!! Listen, I was delighted with the start he had but I'm not sure he has what it takes to get us out of this league. I would love to be proved wrong.

Hiberniankb
08-10-2016, 10:40 PM
Why play hanlon at left back today? There isn't really any point in Callum crane being at hibs if NL is going to play a centre half against st mirren in a the irn bru cup at left back

Sir David Gray
09-10-2016, 04:59 AM
Between now and the end of the season, the only matches we'll have outside of the league matches will be the Scottish Cup. With so little distractions, there is no excuse for us not going up this season.

The recent signs aren't encouraging though.

VivaPalmeiras
09-10-2016, 07:26 AM
Back into the op...

17521

NORTHERNHIBBY
09-10-2016, 07:39 AM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.

It matters right now.

Islington Hibs
09-10-2016, 08:54 AM
Yes. I have seen one performance all season. He's taken a decent squad and added two strikers who should be scoring lots in this league not counting Keatings and Cummings and turned them all into pish. Does he know his best 11? Baffling team selections at times and unable or unwilling to change things during a game. I think we should change before the real damage is done and I'm not really one for change for changes sake. The feel good factor has masked poor displayed but that's about done. Out now.


Grenlex I think that way too harsh- far too soon but I absolutely agree there are some very worrying signs and I think your observations on the money so far. I think what is often under-estimated in sport is not just individual talent but team spirit which builds confidence and success. Stubbs really achieved that but I have my doubts that Lennon is achieving this- some of his press comments seem more aimed to appease fans than build team spirit. Too much public blame culture. His signings have not been great so far either. This could end up being quite nasty simply because if Lennon fails his career will be stuffed- one thing to fail at Bolton, quite another here where our resources are between 2-5x greater than our opposition- and I can see his head really dropping if results don't pick up quickly. Hope I am wrong and absolutely want to be proved wrong but I am far from convinced.

BullsCloseHibs
09-10-2016, 10:04 AM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.


100% this :agree:

Calm doon folks! Chill pill time :greengrin

southern hibby
09-10-2016, 10:10 AM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.

Not came good last 3 seasons in the league and each of them has mattered!!!!

Though I do believe we will get promoted this year

GGTTH

Baldy Foghorn
09-10-2016, 10:14 AM
Not came good last 3 seasons in the league and each of them has mattered!!!!

Though I do believe we will get promoted this year

GGTTH

Good Col:aok::flag:

Captain Trips
09-10-2016, 10:18 AM
No excuses here, this league should be taken by scruff of neck and pure and simply won and won well.

I am seeing signs that this may not happen as easily as I think it should. Not saying league is easy but I expect Hibs to win this division comfortably. We are paying big bucks I expect big results.

Hermit Crab
09-10-2016, 10:50 AM
Been here before many times over the decades.

We'll come good when it matters.


Like the last 3-4 seasons where we went bad when it mattered!!

Heisenberg
09-10-2016, 10:53 AM
This has an all too familiar feeling for me...the start of a shambolic run of results that everyone hopes turns round but never properly does...hopefully it does turn out to be different this time as we need out of this dump of a league. Not looking good in recent weeks though.

lucky
09-10-2016, 11:06 AM
By no stretch of anyone's imagination can NL think playing PH at left back works. Paul is our best CH. Yet for two weeks NL has done this. At the start of the season I believed he was the man to take us back up but not now. I can't understand why Holt is not playing. His strength upfront has allowed space JC to score goals. At this time the feel good factor has gone for me and I suspect for thousands of others.

neil7908
09-10-2016, 11:19 AM
Can't believe anyone is calling for Lennon's head already. I never thought we'd be skooshing this league but felt we'd win it and I still think we will.

I am worried though about our form and specifically how we will get out of this slump. What can/will Lennon do to change things? It'll be very interesting to see the formation and personnel he uses against Raith.

I do think he underestimated the quality and versatility of our squad. Looking back at his signings either we couldn't secure the players he wanted or he thought he squad was good enough. I was excited about Holt and Shinnie but neither has worked so far. Graham concerned me when he was linked and I haven't see anything to banish my doubts.

I hope we can soldier on until January and bring in some fresh blood, presuming the funds are there.

Baldy Foghorn
09-10-2016, 11:22 AM
Can't believe anyone is calling for Lennon's head already. I never thought we'd be skooshing this league but felt we'd win it and I still think we will.

I am worried though about our form and specifically how we will get out of this slump. What can/will Lennon do to change things? It'll be very interesting to see the formation and personnel he uses against Raith.

I do think he underestimated the quality and versatility of our squad. Looking back at his signings either we couldn't secure the players he wanted or he thought he squad was good enough. I was excited about Holt and Shinnie but neither has worked so far. Graham concerned me when he was linked and I haven't see anything to banish my doubts.

I hope we can soldier on until January and bring in some fresh blood, presuming the funds are there.

Indeed:aok:

bingo70
09-10-2016, 02:07 PM
Indeed:aok:

I think it's worth remembering not everyone criticising him or has alarm bells ringing want him sacked.

I am a bit worried at this stage but not for a second am I saying he should be punted.

Arch Stanton
09-10-2016, 02:36 PM
To me Lennon looks out of his depth. Opposing managers are more clued up on Hibs than he is.

What good can come of b*tching at players 'mistakes' from the sidelines?

His team and sub selection looked totally random. Apart from a little about Harris what exactly did he learn yesterday?

The two big strikers he brought in are both sitting on the bench - did he have a plan there?

His midfield substitute was Bartley - was he planning on shoring things up to protect a lead?.

If he hits on a winning combination it will have to be by trial and error seemingly. And if he doesn't it can only get worse.

Paisley Hibby
09-10-2016, 02:39 PM
We all know there is nothing wrong with the quality of player we have at ER. It's a Prem quality squad playing in the Championship. With no Sevco in the league, this is 100% a management issue. Lennon is on the hook for this.

Nailed it Onion. He had a great start but things beginning to look just a tad Butcheresque. Hopefully just a wee wobble. If not then we're toast.

green day
09-10-2016, 02:42 PM
I hate this thread.

Baldy Foghorn
09-10-2016, 04:59 PM
I think it's worth remembering not everyone criticising him or has alarm bells ringing want him sacked.

I am a bit worried at this stage but not for a second am I saying he should be punted.

No I get that bingo, but the fact that some want him punted now, worries me....We have played only 8 league games, yes League Cup defeat was disappointing, yesterday was too also, but judging by the attendance, not many were fussed for Irn Bru cup anyway.....