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madhatter
03-10-2016, 11:35 AM
Not specifically targeting them for anything other than they set really high standards for themselves that I think they are falling well short off at the moment.

McGinn kept trying to hold off about 3 men before losing possession rather than pass a simple ball. Worrying thing for me is he kept doing this over and over again.

McGeouch is obviously a good player but is either injured or carrying an injury. He looked off the pace and was knackered towards the end of the first half - couldn't keep with his man and visibly looked fatigued. Unfortunately he also took a touch like an elephant when played in via a great pass by Hanlon.

Fyvie has been OK and what is quite concerning is that Fyvie and Bartley have probably been our most consistent performers this season. The rest have been like yo-yos.

Midfield must improve.

Since90+2
03-10-2016, 11:38 AM
Our midfield is without doubt the strongest part of our team , our best players are McGinn and McGeough , but we are effectively playing with 4 central midfield players.

Neither McGinn nor McGeough influence the game anywhere near as much playing out wide in the diamond as they would if played in the centre.

HappyHanlon
03-10-2016, 11:41 AM
Not specifically targeting them for anything other than they set really high standards for themselves that I think they are falling well short off at the moment.

McGinn kept trying to hold off about 3 men before losing possession rather than pass a simple ball. Worrying thing for me is he kept doing this over and over again.

McGeouch is obviously a good player but is either injured or carrying an injury. He looked off the pace and was knackered towards the end of the first half - couldn't keep with his man and visibly looked fatigued. Unfortunately he also took a touch like an elephant when played in via a great pass by Hanlon.

Fyvie has been OK and what is quite concerning is that Fyvie and Bartley have probably been our most consistent performers this season. The rest have been like yo-yos.

Midfield must improve.

Seems to be the done thing nowadays - think every game this season has seen McGinn heavily marked by 3 or 4 players.

Smartie
03-10-2016, 11:43 AM
Midfield SHOULD be the strongest area of our team but we didn't dominate it nearly enough as we should have done against a team that were missing 2 or 3 first choice central midfielders.

I don't think central midfield in itself is so much the problem but the balance of the team - if we move better and create space for them, the midfielders will play much better.

I thought all 4 were well short of the level they are capable of yesterday though.

calumhibee1
03-10-2016, 11:44 AM
Seems to be the done thing nowadays - think every game this season has seen McGinn heavily marked by 3 or 4 players.

You have to wonder what the others in our team are doing to avoid making use of all that extra space then.

Jdawg
03-10-2016, 11:44 AM
Seems to be the done thing nowadays - think every game this season has seen McGinn heavily marked by 3 or 4 players.

If that's the case then there should be acres of space to exploit.

cabbageandribs1875
03-10-2016, 11:45 AM
Seems to be the done thing nowadays - think every game this season has seen McGinn heavily marked by 3 or 4 players.


which should then be making space for others, the team really does seem quite disjointed at times

Jdawg
03-10-2016, 11:46 AM
He needs to go with the 2 best cm and not shoehorn players into the team!!

Or

433 - Fyvie, McGinn, McGeouch/Shinnie. Cummimgs, Keatings and Holt/Graham?

HappyHanlon
03-10-2016, 11:51 AM
If that's the case then there should be acres of space to exploit.


You have to wonder what the others in our team are doing to avoid making use of all that extra space then.


which should then be making space for others, the team really does seem quite disjointed at times

You would think but McGinn seems to want to take them all on himself and not actually get the ball away. When it comes off it's genius :agree:

JDHibs
03-10-2016, 11:52 AM
If these 2 played as a CM pairing with 2 wingers outside them, it would be a completely different story. The diamond doesnt suit them.

madhatter
03-10-2016, 11:53 AM
Thing we truly miss is overlaps and aggressive wing play.

I also think that McGeouch and McGinn are our best midfielders but are probably performing at their worst at the moment.

McGinn should realise he is being heavily marked and release the ball faster.

McGeouch needs to shift his perma injury.

madhatter
03-10-2016, 11:55 AM
If these 2 played as a CM pairing with 2 wingers outside them, it would be a completely different story. The diamond doesnt suit them.

Sorry but that is a bit of an excuse. I agree a different formation would help but if they are as good as we keep saying then a diamond in midfield shouldn't matter.

1875STEVE
03-10-2016, 12:03 PM
Our midfield is without doubt the strongest part of our team , our best players are McGinn and McGeough , but we are effectively playing with 4 central midfield players.

Neither McGinn nor McGeough influence the game anywhere near as much playing out wide in the diamond as they would if played in the centre.

Exactly what I said on sunday.

Get those two in the middle with two pacey/dangerous wingers.

Jones28
03-10-2016, 12:05 PM
Sorry but that is a bit of an excuse. I agree a different formation would help but if they are as good as we keep saying then a diamond in midfield shouldn't matter.

It does matter though, they are central midfielders being asked to play as wide attacking midfielders when neither of them has the pace to do so. Play them to their strengths in the middle of the park and you will se totally different players in these 2. Having said that Mcginn could maybe do with having a week or 2 to recapture a bit of form rather than try to play through the bad spell.

4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1 with Mcgeouch and Fyvie in the middle with Boyle wide right, Keatings wide left and Shinnie in behind Graham/Holt.

NAE NOOKIE
03-10-2016, 12:12 PM
McGinn had a stinker yesterday no doubt about it, even his passing was off when he did break free from his markers. But the guy is a quality player and he will regain his form.
McGeouch did run out of steam, but as usual when he was on the ball his first thought was to head towards the opposition final third, I for one would like to see him further forward, he is probably our best midfielder running with the ball, but it doesn't make him much of an attacking threat if he has to beat 3 players just to reach the final 3rd of the park.

Screw this diamond formation .... lets go 442 or 433 ... we might not have many wingers, but I would stick money on both McGeouch or McGinn to beat just about any fullback in this league if they were played in a wide forward position. Give it a try, even if its for the Irn Bru cup game, you never know what might happen.

madhatter
03-10-2016, 12:58 PM
It does matter though, they are central midfielders being asked to play as wide attacking midfielders when neither of them has the pace to do so. Play them to their strengths in the middle of the park and you will se totally different players in these 2. Having said that Mcginn could maybe do with having a week or 2 to recapture a bit of form rather than try to play through the bad spell.

4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1 with Mcgeouch and Fyvie in the middle with Boyle wide right, Keatings wide left and Shinnie in behind Graham/Holt.

No midfielder is asked to play wide. That is the problem. We couldn't be narrower in midfield.

The Leith Dutch
03-10-2016, 02:42 PM
Our midfield is without doubt the strongest part of our team , our best players are McGinn and McGeough , but we are effectively playing with 4 central midfield players.

Neither McGinn nor McGeough influence the game anywhere near as much playing out wide in the diamond as they would if played in the centre.

I sort of know what you mean but lately I'm starting to worry that our 3 first choice midfielders (McGinn, McGeough and Fyvie) are a little two similar.

They're not identical but they're all primarily Centre Mids rather than attacking of defensive ones.

They drive forward reasonably well but with limited capacity for beating a man and they're more solid passers rather than killer balls.
None of them seem to shoot from distance or be particularly good with a dead ball.

Don't get me wrong - I really like all three of them but not sure all three in the midfield is what we need to get out of this division.
It puts all the attacking onto Shinnie (or whoever we play up there) plus Gray and Stevenson who there's been much debate about their crossing.

Maybe time we rethink and accept that Stevenson and Gray are full backs who occasionally overlap.
Stick 2 out of 3 of McGinn, McGeough and Fyvie in Centre Midfield with Stevenson and Gray moving to make a four when we're attacking.
Then play 3 attack minded players behind a single out and out striker.

Against the poor teams we should beat play Cummings with Boyle-Shinnie-Keatings behind him.

s.a.m
03-10-2016, 03:18 PM
I sort of know what you mean but lately I'm starting to worry that our 3 first choice midfielders (McGinn, McGeough and Fyvie) are a little two similar.
.

I know what you mean, but I don't remember ever thinking that before (although McGeouch was out for a lot of last season, so the 3 won't have been played together that often, I suppose). I'm trying to think how they were used previously.#



# might need to have a wee look at the Cup Final to investigate...

The Leith Dutch
03-10-2016, 03:37 PM
I know what you mean, but I don't remember ever thinking that before (although McGeouch was out for a lot of last season, so the 3 won't have been played together that often, I suppose). I'm trying to think how they were used previously.#



# might need to have a wee look at the Cup Final to investigate...

*grins* - it's a fair point.

In my defence that was an exceptional game and we had Stokes up front looking good so perhaps not the template to base things on.
I also think they *could* work together but it's heavily dependent on Gray and Stevenson providing the width.

s.a.m
03-10-2016, 04:38 PM
*grins* - it's a fair point.

In my defence that was an exceptional game and we had Stokes up front looking good so perhaps not the template to base things on.
I also think they *could* work together but it's heavily dependent on Gray and Stevenson providing the width.

:greengrin: To be honest, I wasn't actually trying to be a smarterse - I don't disagree with you. The final was the only game I could think of off the top of my head where they all played. And any excuse to investigate it is a good one...:greengrin

Nutmegged
03-10-2016, 04:52 PM
We play far to narrow, our midfield is made up of central midfielders, we need more balance.

Jdawg
03-10-2016, 05:46 PM
You would think but McGinn seems to want to take them all on himself and not actually get the ball away. When it comes off it's genius :agree:

It's terrible decision making, plain and simple.