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Keith_M
03-10-2016, 08:25 AM
There are understandably a lot of posts questioning just how good our team actually is and what are the biggest problem areas. I realise there is a danger of over simplification but I thought yesterday's statistics were, once again, quite telling.


Hibs

Shots 11, On Target 5, Goals 1

Dundee Utd

Shots 6, On Target 2, Goals 1


Other teams conversion of goals to shots on target seems to be incredibly high against us but ours is invariably very low. This was only yesterday's match but it's a pattern we've been seeing for the last two seasons, often with much worse conversion rates than the figures above.

The opposition seems to be able to just wait it out, knowing that they'll invariably convert most of their chances against us, while we miss a barrowload at the other end.

JimBHibees
03-10-2016, 08:46 AM
There are understandably a lot of posts questioning just how good our team actually is and what are the biggest problem areas. I realise there is a danger of over simplification but I thought yesterday's statistics were, once again, quite telling.


Hibs

Shots 11, On Target 5, Goals 1

Dundee Utd

Shots 6, On Target 2, Goals 1


Other teams conversion of goals to shots on target seems to be incredibly high against us but ours is invariably very low. This was only yesterday's match but it's a pattern we've been seeing for the last two seasons, often with much worse conversion rates than the figures above.

The opposition seems to be able to just wait it out, knowing that they'll invariably convert most of their chances against us, while we miss a barrowload at the other end.

I would also suggest 11 attempts at goal in a home game is very low irrespective who we are playing.

hibbysam
03-10-2016, 08:49 AM
There are understandably a lot of posts questioning just how good our team actually is and what are the biggest problem areas. I realise there is a danger of over simplification but I thought yesterday's statistics were, once again, quite telling.


Hibs

Shots 11, On Target 5, Goals 1

Dundee Utd

Shots 6, On Target 2, Goals 1


Other teams conversion of goals to shots on target seems to be incredibly high against us but ours is invariably very low. This was only yesterday's match but it's a pattern we've been seeing for the last two seasons, often with much worse conversion rates than the figures above.

The opposition seems to be able to just wait it out, knowing that they'll invariably convert most of their chances against us, while we miss a barrowload at the other end.

It's all Oxley's fault, every other keeper in the league makes saves yet one shot always beats the Ox.

2 of our shots were tame efforts from McGeough, one was the goal, I can't for the life of me remember the other 2 however. Possibly the stramash in the last minute?

Just a poor performance from start to finish. No pace, tempo is so slow, very little movement. The quicker we stop trying to fit a system to our players and begin putting our players in a system the better. Flat 4-4-2 with Cummings and Holt/Graham up top, Boyle on one side and Shinnie/Keatings(Due to having no recognised left winger), and two of McGinn, Fyvie, McGeough in the middle. Or 4-3-3 with Boyle & Keatings either side of Cummings/Holt/Graham.

This gives us plenty pace in the side. Work the ball wide, take a man on, a bit penetration and high tempo. Teams will not be able to live with a quick passing, high tempo Hibs side.

Stevie Reid
03-10-2016, 08:54 AM
I would also suggest 11 attempts at goal in a home game is very low irrespective who we are playing.

Agree Jim. Although I think that there was a bit more life in our performance against Dundee Utd (especially in the ways that we won the ball back), we actually created a lot more chances in what was a very flat game against Ayr United. Hardly created a thing against DU, can think of Keatings goal, the shot he had saved at the end, and the scramble at the corner right at the death, where Forster should have done better with the header, and Graham sharper with the chance that came from that. Other than that, Cummings' decent shot, the move where Hanlon picked out Shinnie very well and he inexplicably chose to take a touch away from goal with his right, rather than shoot with his left. Am I missing anything?

Our best performance at home was against Morton, where we scored four headers, three of which came from early balls into the box, from players nowhere near the byeline - we had no option to do that on Saturday, due to Holt and Graham not starting. We need to get the ball in the box more.

NthCarolinaHibs
03-10-2016, 09:03 AM
It's all Oxley's fault, every other keeper in the league makes saves yet one shot always beats the Ox.

2 of our shots were tame efforts from McGeough, one was the goal, I can't for the life of me remember the other 2 however. Possibly the stramash in the last minute?

Just a poor performance from start to finish. No pace, tempo is so slow, very little movement. The quicker we stop trying to fit a system to our players and begin putting our players in a system the better. Flat 4-4-2 with Cummings and Holt/Graham up top, Boyle on one side and Shinnie/Keatings(Due to having no recognised left winger), and two of McGinn, Fyvie, McGeough in the middle. Or 4-3-3 with Boyle & Keatings either side of Cummings/Holt/Graham.

This gives us plenty pace in the side. Work the ball wide, take a man on, a bit penetration and high tempo. Teams will not be able to live with a quick passing, high tempo Hibs side.I blame both our keepers then...

The Leith Dutch
03-10-2016, 09:04 AM
There are understandably a lot of posts questioning just how good our team actually is and what are the biggest problem areas. I realise there is a danger of over simplification but I thought yesterday's statistics were, once again, quite telling.


Hibs

Shots 11, On Target 5, Goals 1

Dundee Utd

Shots 6, On Target 2, Goals 1


Other teams conversion of goals to shots on target seems to be incredibly high against us but ours is invariably very low. This was only yesterday's match but it's a pattern we've been seeing for the last two seasons, often with much worse conversion rates than the figures above.

The opposition seems to be able to just wait it out, knowing that they'll invariably convert most of their chances against us, while we miss a barrowload at the other end.

My view is that you should look for a 40-50% conversion rate as you drop through the Shots/On Target/Goals stats.
Utd are pretty much bang on for that from yesterday.

I do think you're right generally and it's not unusual for us to see teams getting 1 or 2 goals from 2 or 3 shots which is a bit off statistically.
The big problem is how far off we are statistically - Shots to SoT is usually what I'd expect but goals there's a massive tail off.

Last season we had plenty games with 15+ shots and that should be in the 3+ goals category.
Instead we were 1 or 2 up and drew.

Ozyhibby
03-10-2016, 09:19 AM
1.6 goals per game is way below what's needed. Lennon needs to sort that. Quickly.


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ancient hibee
03-10-2016, 09:26 AM
Agree Jim. Although I think that there was a bit more life in our performance against Dundee Utd (especially in the ways that we won the ball back), we actually created a lot more chances in what was a very flat game against Ayr United. Hardly created a thing against DU, can think of Keatings goal, the shot he had saved at the end, and the scramble at the corner right at the death, where Forster should have done better with the header, and Graham sharper with the chance that came from that. Other than that, Cummings' decent shot, the move where Hanlon picked out Shinnie very well and he inexplicably chose to take a touch away from goal with his right, rather than shoot with his left. Am I missing anything?

Our best performance at home was against Morton, where we scored four headers, three of which came from early balls into the box, from players nowhere near the byeline - we had no option to do that on Saturday, due to Holt and Graham not starting. We need to get the ball in the box more.

Hanlon also missed a sitter clean through on the left,put through by Cummings,when he pulled the ball wide of the far post with his left instead of trusting his right.

Although beaten by the Keatings free kick Bell didn't have to make a save until Keatings scored.

Non stat-until we get a player capable of organising and running a game(Fyvie comes closest) we will struggle.

Craigmount Hibs
03-10-2016, 09:31 AM
It's all Oxley's fault, every other keeper in the league makes saves yet one shot always beats the Ox.

2 of our shots were tame efforts from McGeough, one was the goal, I can't for the life of me remember the other 2 however. Possibly the stramash in the last minute?

Just a poor performance from start to finish. No pace, tempo is so slow, very little movement. The quicker we stop trying to fit a system to our players and begin putting our players in a system the better. Flat 4-4-2 with Cummings and Holt/Graham up top, Boyle on one side and Shinnie/Keatings(Due to having no recognised left winger), and two of McGinn, Fyvie, McGeough in the middle. Or 4-3-3 with Boyle & Keatings either side of Cummings/Holt/Graham.

This gives us plenty pace in the side. Work the ball wide, take a man on, a bit penetration and high tempo. Teams will not be able to live with a quick passing, high tempo Hibs side.
Got to agree with this. At home especially, the lack of pace in midfield is a concern.

Captain Trips
03-10-2016, 09:47 AM
They tell me if we had a midfielder who actually got on the end if things as well we might have a few more goals.

Does Pat McGinlay have a son?

Dashing Bob S
03-10-2016, 10:55 AM
It's all Oxley's fault, every other keeper in the league makes saves yet one shot always beats the Ox.

2 of our shots were tame efforts from McGeough, one was the goal, I can't for the life of me remember the other 2 however. Possibly the stramash in the last minute?

Just a poor performance from start to finish. No pace, tempo is so slow, very little movement. The quicker we stop trying to fit a system to our players and begin putting our players in a system the better. Flat 4-4-2 with Cummings and Holt/Graham up top, Boyle on one side and Shinnie/Keatings(Due to having no recognised left winger), and two of McGinn, Fyvie, McGeough in the middle. Or 4-3-3 with Boyle & Keatings either side of Cummings/Holt/Graham.

This gives us plenty pace in the side. Work the ball wide, take a man on, a bit penetration and high tempo. Teams will not be able to live with a quick passing, high tempo Hibs side.

I completely agree with this viewpoint. Sadly Lennon seems to be following Stubbs doomed quest of seeing Stevenson and Gray as providing the threat from the wide berths.

Itsnoteasy
03-10-2016, 11:02 AM
They tell me if we had a midfielder who actually got on the end if things as well we might have a few more goals.

Does Pat McGinlay have a son?

Forget the son. Bring back the man himself.

hibbysam
03-10-2016, 11:49 AM
I completely agree with this viewpoint. Sadly Lennon seems to be following Stubbs doomed quest of seeing Stevenson and Gray as providing the threat from the wide berths.

The amount of times towards the end of the game that McGeough or Fyvie got the ball, stood for 30 seconds with no options and not one player trying to go beyond them or make a big movement to get in to space, which resulted in both men being closed down and turning backwards was scary. I don't see the point in Boyle replacing Shinnie to play in the hole where he cannot use his pace. We should always have one of the big battering rams up top for 60 minutes to bully centre halves, to then be replaced by a quicker player who can make the most of the big pitch.

We seem far too capable of making the ER as narrow looking as possible, even though it is one of the biggest in the country, and that is done by flooding the middle of the park. If you play a diamond, your "Shinnie" should be beyond there midfield in the hole, however due to the way teams play, ie 5 defensive midfielders, it results in us having 9 men within about 30 yards in the middle of the pitch and no room to work in.

The Harp Awakes
03-10-2016, 01:44 PM
The biggest problem we have is a lack of directness in our midfielders. It's not often we see our midfield running at opposing defences as they prefer to run and pass across the pitch.

Now clearly where the opposition get everyone behind the ball for most of the 90 mins, as happened again yesterday, it's not as easy to always be direct, but they at least have to mix it up. Otherwise all we get is possession at a pedestrian rate with little goal threat.

Neil needs to change our style of play before it's too late.

greenlex
03-10-2016, 03:18 PM
Sure we hit the post/bar in the first half too.