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Captain Trips
02-10-2016, 05:36 PM
As it says, I am not looking for another season of 3 or 4 goals going on 1 or 0, seen it done it you need to get it sorted and fast as QOS, Falkirk United are not going to be rolling over.

Get somebody anybody from that midfield getting into scoring positions and actually converting, if they cant manage ship them out.

This team needs goals from all areas sort out something in training or find a player who can bring something new to this midfield as its all too tea cakes and doylies.

Get everyone into traing busting a gut into the box. Shooting boots on for strikers as Neil I am really pissed off at this going on season after season.

Hi Heid Yin
02-10-2016, 06:07 PM
Neil Lennon is as frustrated as the rest of us at the major failing of our team - namely: "We don't score enough goals from the chances we create". Our conversion percentage makes depressing reading.
This major failing is why we did not seriously compete for the automatic promotion slot with either Hearts or The Rangers these last 2 years.
It's really worrying that we have not learnt anything and that Neil Lennon is only now beginning to see the problem he has to address. The only comfort is that it is still early doors and we are up there - albeit in a pack of equally determined sides.

Onion
02-10-2016, 06:31 PM
Neil Lennon is as frustrated as the rest of us at the major failing of our team - namely: "We don't score enough goals from the chances we create". Our conversion percentage makes depressing reading.
This major failing is why we did not seriously compete for the automatic promotion slot with either Hearts or The Rangers these last 2 years.
It's really worrying that we have not learnt anything and that Neil Lennon is only now beginning to see the problem he has to address. The only comfort is that it is still early doors and we are up there - albeit in a pack of equally determined sides.

:top marks He had 2 seasons of league failure to see what our problem was and it doesn't look like he's addressed it. Holt and Graham were brought in to offer us other options up front, but with both relegated to to the bench you have to wonder what Lennon is thinking ?

Eyrie
02-10-2016, 06:33 PM
:top marks He had 2 seasons of league failure to see what our problem was and it doesn't look like he's addressed it. Holt and Graham were brought in to offer us other options up front, but with both relegated to to the bench you have to wonder what Lennon is thinking ?

But as has been observed in other threads we lack the players to provide Holt and Graham with the service they need to thrive and which would give us a Plan B.

That is where Lennon's recruitment has let us down.

Hi Heid Yin
02-10-2016, 09:35 PM
But as has been observed in other threads we lack the players to provide Holt and Graham with the service they need to thrive and which would give us a Plan B.

That is where Lennon's recruitment has let us down.

I think Lennon over-estimated the strength of our squad and under-estimated it's ability to conjure up woeful performances far too regularly for us to be serious title contenders.
He has tinkered, to date, with negligible results. The same failings of the past 2 years still haunt us - an inability to convert a higher percentage of chances created into goals. (Is it only 20%, or 1 in 5?)

Forza Fred
02-10-2016, 11:44 PM
Could it be that he underestimates the difficulty of getting out of this division?

Maybe Crane, was injured, but if not why Harris and not Crane was on the bench yesterday is baffling.

We have no X factor about us.....opposition managers could watch a video of us from two seasons ago, and set their tactics up based on that...we just plod along with lots of possession but no clear idea what we do with the ball when we get in the final third, other than knock it out to the flank for the hopeful balls to be aimed for the crowded box or in many instances, terraces.

Also, I am starting to have my doubts about Shinnie and Graham.

Shinnie seemed in need of a few games, and Graham, having came on as sub, appeared to me to go down injured for too long near the end of the game simply by being smelled in the face by an innocuous ball.

Different if it had been a clash of heads, but I'd suggest his game is about getting his heid on the end of balls, and if it's going to affect him like that every time...or at a time when a break in play is the last thing we want, then he may not be fit for purpose.

GreenLake
03-10-2016, 05:19 AM
Could it be that he underestimates the difficulty of getting out of this division?

Maybe Crane, was injured, but if not why Harris and not Crane was on the bench yesterday is baffling.

We have no X factor about us.....opposition managers could watch a video of us from two seasons ago, and set their tactics up based on that...we just plod along with lots of possession but no clear idea what we do with the ball when we get in the final third, other than knock it out to the flank for the hopeful balls to be aimed for the crowded box or in many instances, terraces.

Also, I am starting to have my doubts about Shinnie and Graham.

Shinnie seemed in need of a few games, and Graham, having came on as sub, appeared to me to go down injured for too long near the end of the game simply by being smelled in the face by an innocuous ball.

Different if it had been a clash of heads, but I'd suggest his game is about getting his heid on the end of balls, and if it's going to affect him like that every time...or at a time when a break in play is the last thing we want, then he may not be fit for purpose.

A ball onto the nose is quite painful and can cause vision problems albeit just for a few minutes. From his eyes watering and the dazed look he had on the TV close up I would imagine that is what happened.

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 06:12 AM
Could it be that he underestimates the difficulty of getting out of this division?

Maybe Crane, was injured, but if not why Harris and not Crane was on the bench yesterday is baffling.

We have no X factor about us.....opposition managers could watch a video of us from two seasons ago, and set their tactics up based on that...we just plod along with lots of possession but no clear idea what we do with the ball when we get in the final third, other than knock it out to the flank for the hopeful balls to be aimed for the crowded box or in many instances, terraces.

Also, I am starting to have my doubts about Shinnie and Graham.

Shinnie seemed in need of a few games, and Graham, having came on as sub, appeared to me to go down injured for too long near the end of the game simply by being smelled in the face by an innocuous ball.

Different if it had been a clash of heads, but I'd suggest his game is about getting his heid on the end of balls, and if it's going to affect him like that every time...or at a time when a break in play is the last thing we want, then he may not be fit for purpose.


A ball onto the nose is quite painful and can cause vision problems albeit just for a few minutes. From his eyes watering and the dazed look he had on the TV close up I would imagine that is what happened.

Perhaps.

But then If he was at any stage concussed by such a serious injury, then he should have immediately been removed from the game for his own sake. Concussion does not clear up in a matter of minutes.
I know you didn't mention concussion, but that is basically what your description was.
From personal experience, in my younger days I was renowned for challenging for wet, fills that were lumped up to me.
My lack of prowess meant they bounced off every part of my heid including my neb, at various rates of knots.
Blood sometimes spilled...absent in this particular instance mind you.......but never in living memory did I go down .

Your explanation of course could be correct...and so could a simpler one...that he just dogged it.

chinaman
03-10-2016, 06:13 AM
A ball onto the nose is quite painful and can cause vision problems albeit just for a few minutes. From his eyes watering and the dazed look he had on the TV close up I would imagine that is what happened.

The Utd player caught him with his elbow albeit accidentally after the ball hit his face.sore one

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 06:20 AM
The Utd player caught him with his elbow albeit accidentally after the ball hit his face.sore one

Not the way I saw it on the telly, with the benefit of the replay too...was just a ball in the puss.

Libby Hibby
03-10-2016, 06:53 AM
Not the way I saw it on the telly, with the benefit of the replay too...was just a ball in the puss.

Have you ever had a ball in the puss?

jax67
03-10-2016, 06:54 AM
Too slow and ponderous in possession, too many under hit passes, too many touches in the final third, severe lack of movement from too many players.

Heisenberg
03-10-2016, 06:58 AM
Not the way I saw it on the telly, with the benefit of the replay too...was just a ball in the puss.

People are way too eager to stick the boot in to our players ffs! The boy got rattled in the face with the ball from close range and then the Utd player 100% caught him with his elbow. You could tell by his face that he was dazed. Fair enough rip him for his ability but not stupid stuff like that.

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 07:02 AM
Have you ever had a ball in the puss?

Inumerable times.

I just got on with it.

I certainly didn't go down like a sack of spuds.

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 07:08 AM
People are way too eager to stick the boot in to our players ffs! The boy got rattled in the face with the ball from close range and then the Utd player 100% caught him with his elbow. You could tell by his face that he was dazed. Fair enough rip him for his ability but not stupid stuff like that.

Two points, three really I guess

1 I call things the way I see them, and shall continue to do so.
2 I did NOT see him get caught in the face with an elbow...but I will triple check on Hibs Tv
3 if he was rendered 'dazed' as you say for any reason he should have been immediately removed from the field as such concussions can have serious effects. They don't just do damage for a moment and are cured within two minutes of time.

Allant1981
03-10-2016, 07:12 AM
Inumerable times.

I just got on with it.

I certainly didn't go down like a sack of spuds.

Sorry but you are takking rubbish. There is no way if you got hit in the face at point blank range that you just got on with it

chinaman
03-10-2016, 07:15 AM
People are way too eager to stick the boot in to our players ffs! The boy got rattled in the face with the ball from close range and then the Utd player 100% caught him with his elbow. You could tell by his face that he was dazed. Fair enough rip him for his ability but not stupid stuff like that.
Correct !

MB62
03-10-2016, 07:34 AM
I mentioned after our last home game that there seems to be a 'chemistry' missing from the side and I still feel that's the case. There is also a total lack of desire from our midfield to get themselves into the box to help our forwards. At one point in the 2nd half yesterday, Shinnie (I think, it might have been Hanlon) got to the byline and was looking to cut the ball back. We had Cummings and Keatings being marked by about 8 defenders whilst 4 of our midfield players were standing in a line across the park about 40 yards away. Needless to say, the ball was cleared easily and these players became defenders.

I heard Lennon moaning about the amount of corners we get and can't score yet the opposition get one or two and always seem to manage to score from one. Well Neil, your Zonal defending didn't particularly work with Celtc, especially in Europe, and it doesn't seem to be working with us either. How many times do you need to get knocked running across a road before you decide it's maybe better to use the zebra crossing? Utd had our defending from corners sussed out from word go and caused us problems by positioning players towards the edge of our box. It gave them a clear run and advantage from our standing defenders and ultimate cost us points, AGAIN.

However, losing one goal at home should really be costing us as dearly, given the amount of possession and pressure we have, so whilst zonal defending does look as though it is causing us problems, it more our midfield and strikers that are causing the biggest problem.

Again, we played a lot of great passing football yesterday, but again there never really looked like there was going to be a goal being scored from it.

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 07:38 AM
Sorry but you are takking rubbish. There is no way if you got hit in the face at point blank range that you just got on with it

If I got hit at 'point blank range' then the laws of physics would suggest that the ball did not travel far enough to build up any speed, (velocity) and therefore would be very unlikely to cause any pain whatsoever.

ballengeich
03-10-2016, 07:47 AM
I hope Neil's private thoughts differ from his public statements, because if they don't he won't be able to bring the improvements we want.

While we dominated possession yesterday we didn't make many good chances so it wasn't a case of squandering opportunities. The deficiencies from last season are still there - no pace wide and midfielders not getting goals. Is Shinnie against Morton the only midfield scorer this season? Yesterday the others in midfield never got forward much so the United defence always outnumbered our strikers.

ballengeich
03-10-2016, 07:50 AM
If I got hit at 'point blank range' then the laws of physics would suggest that the ball did not travel far enough to build up any speed, (velocity) and therefore would be very unlikely to cause any pain whatsoever.

From my limited memory of physics, the ball is at its maximum speed at the start of its journey. There's nothing to cause it to speed up afterwards.

eastcoasthibby
03-10-2016, 07:57 AM
I mentioned after our last home game that there seems to be a 'chemistry' missing from the side and I still feel that's the case. There is also a total lack of desire from our midfield to get themselves into the box to help our forwards. At one point in the 2nd half yesterday, Shinnie (I think, it might have been Hanlon) got to the byline and was looking to cut the ball back. We had Cummings and Keatings being marked by about 8 defenders whilst 4 of our midfield players were standing in a line across the park about 40 yards away. Needless to say, the ball was cleared easily and these players became defenders.

I heard Lennon moaning about the amount of corners we get and can't score yet the opposition get one or two and always seem to manage to score from one. Well Neil, your Zonal defending didn't particularly work with Celtc, especially in Europe, and it doesn't seem to be working with us either. How many times do you need to get knocked running across a road before you decide it's maybe better to use the zebra crossing? Utd had our defending from corners sussed out from word go and caused us problems by positioning players towards the edge of our box. It gave them a clear run and advantage from our standing defenders and ultimate cost us points, AGAIN.

However, losing one goal at home should really be costing us as dearly, given the amount of possession and pressure we have, so whilst zonal defending does look as though it is causing us problems, it more our midfield and strikers that are causing the biggest problem.

Again, we played a lot of great passing football yesterday, but again there never really looked like there was going to be a goal being scored from it.
Last week on match of the day martin kweon and whoever he was on with were focussing on the amount of goals lost last Saturday by Premiership teams zonal markings system at corners and was totally right as he described defenders are too static and its really difficult to pick up a runner and a standing jump is no where near a match for the attacker getting a run and jump on the defender ..so I totally agree stop the zonal crap and pick a man up each and take responsibility for winning that battle ...

Scouse Hibee
03-10-2016, 07:59 AM
If I got hit at 'point blank range' then the laws of physics would suggest that the ball did not travel far enough to build up any speed, (velocity) and therefore would be very unlikely to cause any pain whatsoever.

Physics wasn't your strong point then.

s.a.m
03-10-2016, 08:02 AM
From my limited memory of physics, the ball is at its maximum speed at the start of its journey. There's nothing to cause it to speed up afterwards.

Talking of physics....:idea: somebody who know about such things (not me) could presumably, using the weight of the ball and a guessed speed of the shot in question, establish the force that Graham's puss may have been struck with? Hard facts! :I'm waiti :greengrin

scoopyboy
03-10-2016, 08:07 AM
Inumerable times.

I just got on with it.

I certainly didn't go down like a sack of spuds.

I recall Murdo MacLeod being laid out by a Brazilian free kick at the World Cup (Branco?).

I take it you think he was just a wimp. :greengrin

Captain Trips
03-10-2016, 08:15 AM
I really wish all this was down to a ball in the face, for me has nothing to do with this match or the last few.

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 08:16 AM
I recall Murdo MacLeod being laid out by a Brazilian free kick at the World Cup (Branco?).

I take it you think he was just a wimp. :greengrin

Nope, different circumstances.

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 08:20 AM
Physics wasn't your strong point then.

Probably not, at the moment I'm having trouble accessing Hibs TV to see footage of the issue, but have asked for a third party to view it for me.

Main point is whether he was caught by an elbow to the head or not as claimed by a couple....I didn't see such a thing at the time.

Allant1981
03-10-2016, 12:41 PM
If I got hit at 'point blank range' then the laws of physics would suggest that the ball did not travel far enough to build up any speed, (velocity) and therefore would be very unlikely to cause any pain whatsoever.

So you havent been hit at point blank range with a ball then and talking rubbish, it hurts big time believe me

Forza Fred
03-10-2016, 01:22 PM
So you havent been hit at point blank range with a ball then and talking rubbish, it hurts big time believe me

Don't want to make this thread about my football prowess or lack of it...have probably taken more balls in the puss than most on here over the years, but let's move on to what the original issue was


Quite simply my view is that Graham went down far too easy from what was a routine ball from midfield that instead of him heading struck him in the face.

The clock was ticking down, we were looking for a winner, and the last thing we needed was someone getting his face wiped.

The video has been reviewed and there was NO elbow, as claimed by a couple of posters earlier.

Review the video.

BoomtownHibees
03-10-2016, 01:31 PM
Don't want to make this thread about my football prowess or lack of it...have probably taken more balls in the puss than most on here over the years, but let's move on to what the original issue was


Quite simply my view is that Graham went down far too easy from what was a routine ball from midfield that instead of him heading struck him in the face.

The clock was ticking down, we were looking for a winner, and the last thing we needed was someone getting his face wiped.

The video has been reviewed and there was NO elbow, as claimed by a couple of posters earlier.

Review the video.

I'm only going from my view from the east but did the defender no header the ball on to Graham's face from about 6 inches away?

Hibernia&Alba
03-10-2016, 01:47 PM
Could it be that he underestimates the difficulty of getting out of this division?

Maybe Crane, was injured, but if not why Harris and not Crane was on the bench yesterday is baffling.

We have no X factor about us.....opposition managers could watch a video of us from two seasons ago, and set their tactics up based on that...we just plod along with lots of possession but no clear idea what we do with the ball when we get in the final third, other than knock it out to the flank for the hopeful balls to be aimed for the crowded box or in many instances, terraces.

Also, I am starting to have my doubts about Shinnie and Graham.

Shinnie seemed in need of a few games, and Graham, having came on as sub, appeared to me to go down injured for too long near the end of the game simply by being smelled in the face by an innocuous ball.

Different if it had been a clash of heads, but I'd suggest his game is about getting his heid on the end of balls, and if it's going to affect him like that every time...or at a time when a break in play is the last thing we want, then he may not be fit for purpose.


No, mate, there's nothing to underestimate. We no longer have Hearts and Rangers to compete with for automatic promotion; it's Morton, Queen Of The South, Dumbarton who are the competition. Dundee United are a big club but a poor side at present, so there'll be no excuses should we not win the league. That isn't arrogance, it's the reality of the division we're in. I'm confident we'll win the division comfortably in the end, but Lennon knows he simply must promotion, otherwise he'll be slaughtered by the fans.