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The_Horde
02-10-2016, 12:54 PM
That was utterly dire.

Lots of ball, no purchase. I'm sure that roughly translates as Hibernian

Ozyhibby
02-10-2016, 12:54 PM
You can't expect to go forwards if all your summer signings aren't good enough to make the team.


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SlickShoes
02-10-2016, 12:54 PM
Same old story really lots of possession and dominate the game but not create much clear cut and not win.

SRHibs
02-10-2016, 12:56 PM
6 hour round trip every 2 weeks for this pish is no fun.

neil7908
02-10-2016, 12:58 PM
That was utterly dire.

Lots of ball, no purchase. I'm sure that roughly translates as Hibernian

I wouldn't go as far as to say it was dire but these kind of displays will not see us win this league and certainly won't be skooshing it. Same problems as last year for me with too many cental midfielders in each others way. McGinn's worst performance of the season didn't help either

Berwickhibby
02-10-2016, 12:59 PM
Too many passengers today, McGinn, McGeough, Hanlon, Cummings just were just not at it today...... Very poor fans let down again

RedHibby
02-10-2016, 01:02 PM
I am waiting for the "we lost that game because they got a corner that was never a corner" unfortunately we failed to defend the corner that was given.

HIBERNIAN-0762
02-10-2016, 01:02 PM
Once again we fail to break down a team with the usual pub team tactics, far too many passengers today, please Neil don't play Paul Hanlon at left back again!

Captain Trips
02-10-2016, 01:03 PM
Not good enough, powderpuff now into year 4. Sort it Neil.

hibee_girl
02-10-2016, 01:04 PM
Everything is just so slow when we have the ball, never any sense of urgency from our players

nickwhibs
02-10-2016, 01:04 PM
Thought we actually looked decent and pretty comfortable. But same old story, we need to be creating more chances and scoring more goals. It is, and has been, so obvious that we need width and pace to create space - can't understand why Lennon hadn't addressed this. We actually played with width against Brondby, our two best performances of the season. Get the diamond tae...

Steve20
02-10-2016, 01:05 PM
Had all the ball but did nothing with it.

We might win the league, but we're not any better than the other teams up there. Lennon needs to prove he was worth the hype.

Billychaotic182
02-10-2016, 01:06 PM
Zonal marking is what's cost us today. Mak the man next time hibs. Zonal marking doesn't work, lost goals against Ayr and now Utd because of it!!!

Jpdhfc
02-10-2016, 01:06 PM
Thread title says it all

Pretty Boy
02-10-2016, 01:06 PM
It was pretty much the same shape and players that struggled to put games to bed in the league last season. I'm not really sure why people are suprised, do the same things you end up with the same results.

Heisenberg
02-10-2016, 01:07 PM
Zonal marking is what's cost us today. Mak the man next time hibs. Zonal marking doesn't work, lost goals against Ayr and now Utd because of it!!!

Shinnie was man marking the boy that scored...I don't have a clue why tbh. Huge size difference between them.

Billychaotic182
02-10-2016, 01:09 PM
Shinnie was man marking the boy that scored...I don't have a clue why tbh. Huge size difference between them.

Not only that but Shinnie took Hanlon out as well. He elbowed him in the face (not that it would have made a difference)

B.H.F.C
02-10-2016, 01:09 PM
We've not went backwards. We've just stayed the same.

Same problems as we had last year and the year before. Nothin done to address it.

Danderhall Hibs
02-10-2016, 01:09 PM
Zonal marking is what's cost us today. Mak the man next time hibs. Zonal marking doesn't work, lost goals against Ayr and now Utd because of it!!!

Disagree. We couldn't defend corners last year either and we weren't doing zonal.

Just a lazy shout IMO.

Big90inOz
02-10-2016, 01:11 PM
How much better would we be with 2 decent wing backs ?
Hanlon should have tore them a new arse hole in the first half.

RedHibby
02-10-2016, 01:13 PM
It was pretty much the same shape and players that struggled to put games to bed in the league last season. I'm not really sure why people are suprised, do the same things you end up with the same results.

It pains me to say it but you are spot on.

Borderhibbie76
02-10-2016, 01:14 PM
We were brutal today and couldn't believe lennon didn't change it till 74th minute - really not good enough Neil please scrap this diamond and start playing with some width in the team FFS

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hibee62
02-10-2016, 01:22 PM
I am waiting for the "we lost that game because they got a corner that was never a corner" unfortunately we failed to defend the corner that was given.

I won't say we lost that game because of a referee mistake but I will say we drew it because of one.

nellio
02-10-2016, 01:22 PM
Wingers! Simple as that.

Diamond in the middle is not effective at breaking teams down that sit back. We need to stretch teamsvwith width and pace.

Been saying it for ages now.

DaveF
02-10-2016, 01:22 PM
Disagree. We couldn't defend corners last year either and we weren't doing zonal.

Just a lazy shout IMO.

Not a lazy shout Imo. Ayr should have scored twice and United did today. Its a big problem.

Pedantic_Hibee
02-10-2016, 01:23 PM
Plenty of urgency without the ball to fetch it back but pedestrian, square and boring as **** when we do have it.

McGinn wasn't great today but he's the only one that wants to wriggle free from his marker and open the game up.

Fwiw, Dundee United were terrible and were delighted with a draw.

Highland_Hibee
02-10-2016, 01:26 PM
Midfield don't/can't shoot. Forster, Keatings and Fyvie only players to take pass marks for me today. Gray had a good game until he had to go off. Only positive is if they are title contenders then this division is weaker than I thought.


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Jones28
02-10-2016, 01:31 PM
So frustrating, we are so desperate for some quality in wide areas. Stop playing 4 central midfielders please Neil.

Greencore
02-10-2016, 01:39 PM
Need wingers and a proven Scottish goal scorer alongside Jason.

its like our players don't know what to do in the final third

Nakedmanoncrack
02-10-2016, 01:41 PM
We are obviously weaker in terms of the players who have left (Malonga/Stokes, Henderson) & been replaced with inferior players, so thats no surprise, but I had hoped that the one area we appeared stronger (management) would have led to the failings of last 2 seasons not being repeated. So far no sign of that, still hopeful but more because the opposition has also weakened this season.

BoomtownHibees
02-10-2016, 01:41 PM
Need wingers and a proven Scottish goal scorer alongside Jason.

its like our players don't know what to do in the final third

Why does he need to be Scottish?

green day
02-10-2016, 01:42 PM
So frustrating, we are so desperate for some quality in wide areas. Stop playing 4 central midfielders please Neil.

Who will we play in their place?

Jones28
02-10-2016, 01:45 PM
Who will we play in their place?

Play Keatings wide left and Boyle wide right. Graham/Holt up front with Cummings.

The amount of times we were screaming for movement in wide areas was outrageous.

J-C
02-10-2016, 01:45 PM
Who will we play in their place?

We don't need 4, drop one and get a wide man in.

Jones28
02-10-2016, 01:46 PM
Why does he need to be Scottish?

Think it was Scottish in a football sense, not nationality

green day
02-10-2016, 01:46 PM
The amount of times we were creaming was outrageous.

It wisnae that exciting 😁

The_Horde
02-10-2016, 01:46 PM
Need wingers and a proven Scottish goal scorer alongside Jason.

its like our players don't know what to do in the final third

We've got 3 or 4 proven goal scorers its goal makers that we lack. More passes like shinnies today or someone with a bit of magic. All good teams have it and we don't.

Danderhall Hibs
02-10-2016, 01:46 PM
Not a lazy shout Imo. Ayr should have scored twice and United did today. Its a big problem.

Defending corners/crosses is the issue.

Jim44
02-10-2016, 01:47 PM
One of the worrying sights today was Lennon sitting with his head in his hands and it wasn't opportunistic editing. He's as baffled as anyone as to why the script is not running to plan.

Jones28
02-10-2016, 01:48 PM
It wisnae that exciting 😁

😂😂😂

ekhibee
02-10-2016, 01:53 PM
I'm afraid I have to agree with those who think there's a lot of similarities between this season and last. The Scottish Cup win, wonderful as it was, seems to have distracted most people from the faults in the team. Last season, regardless of Sevco being in the league, we should still have been challenging them instead of which they ended up winning it in a canter. I know some people will disagree with me, but I can't just blame the manager for this. Some of the players are held in very high esteem by a lot of the fans, for various reasons, but far too often they don't do enough. McGinn didn't have a great game today, neither did McGeouch or Fyvie. None of them score goals either. I thought Shinnie might offer something different but after his 1st game he's really not done much in my opinion. It's sadly starting to look a bit predictable, in the same way it did last season. But on a positive note it really is early doors as far as the season goes, and we're only a point off the top. I don't believe Lennon will stand by and do nothing about it either. His reputation is on the line as well, if he doesn't get us promoted this season there's no chance he will get a big money move elsewhere in the future, but that's just my opinion.

GreenNWhiteArmy
02-10-2016, 02:30 PM
We played relatively well. By far the better side and should have won. Disappointed not to win.

Not too suicidal after this result but agree with many that we need to take more of our chances

Billychaotic182
02-10-2016, 02:57 PM
Disagree. We couldn't defend corners last year either and we weren't doing zonal.

Just a lazy shout IMO.

It's not a lazy shout!! When you zonal Mark you are defending an area of the pitch. You are standing still. Attackers then are able to get the run onto you meaning they have the momentum, thus more likely to win the ball and with power. If you mark the man you mark the run, meaning he wont have the momentum over you. I agree that defending corners is a problem for us but for me zonal marking is not the answer.

Danderhall Hibs
02-10-2016, 05:20 PM
It's not a lazy shout!! When you zonal Mark you are defending an area of the pitch. You are standing still. Attackers then are able to get the run onto you meaning they have the momentum, thus more likely to win the ball and with power. If you mark the man you mark the run, meaning he wont have the momentum over you. I agree that defending corners is a problem for us but for me zonal marking is not the answer.

I know what zonal marking is mate. If one of the 3 players that were in the zone had done their job we wouldn't be discussing it.

Nothing to say if it had been man for man that the boy wouldn't have scored.

matty_f
02-10-2016, 06:09 PM
I know what zonal marking is mate. If one of the 3 players that were in the zone had done their job we wouldn't be discussing it.

Nothing to say if it had been man for man that the boy wouldn't have scored.

That's a fair point, to be honest. I'm not a fan of zonal marking but we've been s bad at defending crosses when we've gone man for man, and as has been pointed out, the scorer was being marked at the goal.

Zonal marking comes in for criticism when goals are conceded like today but the same analysis isn't given to man to man marking when teams concede, which makes it seem like zonal marking is less effective.

Eyrie
02-10-2016, 06:24 PM
That's a fair point, to be honest. I'm not a fan of zonal marking but we've been s bad at defending crosses when we've gone man for man, and as has been pointed out, the scorer was being marked at the goal.

Zonal marking comes in for criticism when goals are conceded like today but the same analysis isn't given to man to man marking when teams concede, which makes it seem like zonal marking is less effective.

The criticism is still there but when man-to-man doesn't work it's the defender who didn't stop his man scoring that gets blamed rather than the system because it is clear who is at fault.

With zonal it's less obvious which individual was at fault so the system is blamed. That could be part of the problem ie the players themselves aren't comfortable in a zonal system.

J-C
02-10-2016, 06:30 PM
The criticism is still there but when man-to-man doesn't work it's the defender who didn't stop his man scoring that gets blamed rather than the system because it is clear who is at fault.

With zonal it's less obvious which individual was at fault so the system is blamed. That could be part of the problem ie the players themselves aren't comfortable in a zonal system.


Not quite, slow the corner down and see what each player is doing, if any player hasn't attacked the ball in his area it will soon show, the one thing about zonal is defenders won't get dragged everywhere and lose where the ball is, all they really have to do is concentrate on the ball coming in and then heading it away.

Danderhall Hibs
02-10-2016, 07:40 PM
Not quite, slow the corner down and see what each player is doing, if any player hasn't attacked the ball in his area it will soon show, the one thing about zonal is defenders won't get dragged everywhere and lose where the ball is, all they really have to do is concentrate on the ball coming in and then heading it away.

The big difference between the systems is it's usually easier for us to know who to blame - I think that's why folk don't like zonal.

Eyrie
02-10-2016, 09:37 PM
The big difference between the systems is it's usually easier for us to know who to blame - I think that's why folk don't like zonal.

My main gripe about zonal is that a well delivered ball leaves the defenders waiting underneath it whilst the attackers get a running leap.

Danderhall Hibs
03-10-2016, 12:01 PM
My main gripe about zonal is that a well delivered ball leaves the defenders waiting underneath it whilst the attackers get a running leap.

Fair enough - Shouldn't be the case if they attack it properly though.

happiehibbie
03-10-2016, 12:04 PM
I have treid wait till I calmed down I haven't. That for me was a team managed by TB YES Terry F in Butcher it was chronic

Hibs1969
03-10-2016, 01:00 PM
What is it with our unwillingness to take shots at goal? Three times yesterday before Keatings scored
we had players in their box with the opportunity to have a pop, Shinnie, McGinn and Gray ( I think). Each time they either took an extra touch or played a pass. It seems at times we want to walk the ball into the net or score the perfect goal.

Stevie Reid
03-10-2016, 01:09 PM
I'm certainly concerned by the level of performance in the last two home games (albeit they were games that on the balance of play and chances, we should still have won comfortably), but we haven't actually gone backwards compared to the last two seasons: -

We currently have 17 points from 8 games.

2014-15
Went from 15 to 18 points on 8 November, our 12th league game

2015-16
Went from 16 to 19 points on 17 October, our 9th league game

And of course the crucial thing is that in both of those seasons the league was already gone by this point due to the starts that Hearts, and then Rangers, had made - far from the case this season. We've already been away to two of the most difficult venues that we will visit, in Falkirk and QOS, and taken 4 points, with the draw being after having played with ten men for almost all of the second half.

Yesterday was disappointing no doubt, especially as we could have regained top spot - but a draw isn't the worst result in the world. Dundee Utd didn't manage to close the gap, as such we are still five points clear of them after eight games - we would have taken that at the start of the season. The only really bad result we've had so far was the Ayr United home game, where (regardless of whether we could have been further ahead when it happened) a very bad decision had a major effect on the game.

I am by no means trying to downplay the issues that are currently showing, many of which are from the previous two seasons - but I do think that there is better to come. But I certainly think the catastrophising by some on here is way OTT.

ancient hibee
03-10-2016, 05:38 PM
My main gripe about zonal is that a well delivered ball leaves the defenders waiting underneath it whilst the attackers get a running leap.


The big mistake was two players going for the same ball-Shinnie knocked Hanlon.

Eyrie
03-10-2016, 07:17 PM
The big mistake was two players going for the same ball-Shinnie knocked Hanlon.

That would be Shinnie who was meant to be blocking the run, and Hanlon whose zone the ball was delivered into. Sounds like a system failure to me.

Shinnie shouldn't have been on one of their centre halves and Hanlon didn't get off the ground properly because he had no room from his starting position for a run before he had to jump.

GreenNWhiteArmy
03-10-2016, 07:23 PM
I'm certainly concerned by the level of performance in the last two home games (albeit they were games that on the balance of play and chances, we should still have won comfortably), but we haven't actually gone backwards compared to the last two seasons: -

We currently have 17 points from 8 games.

2014-15
Went from 15 to 18 points on 8 November, our 12th league game

2015-16
Went from 16 to 19 points on 17 October, our 9th league game

And of course the crucial thing is that in both of those seasons the league was already gone by this point due to the starts that Hearts, and then Rangers, had made - far from the case this season. We've already been away to two of the most difficult venues that we will visit, in Falkirk and QOS, and taken 4 points, with the draw being after having played with ten men for almost all of the second half.

Yesterday was disappointing no doubt, especially as we could have regained top spot - but a draw isn't the worst result in the world. Dundee Utd didn't manage to close the gap, as such we are still five points clear of them after eight games - we would have taken that at the start of the season. The only really bad result we've had so far was the Ayr United home game, where (regardless of whether we could have been further ahead when it happened) a very bad decision had a major effect on the game.

I am by no means trying to downplay the issues that are currently showing, many of which are from the previous two seasons - but I do think that there is better to come. But I certainly think the catastrophising by some on here is way OTT.

Well said Stevie. Pretty much what I've been trying to say but with a lot more balance and chill

Danderhall Hibs
03-10-2016, 07:34 PM
That would be Shinnie who was meant to be blocking the run, and Hanlon whose zone the ball was delivered into. Sounds like a system failure to me.

Shinnie shouldn't have been on one of their centre halves and Hanlon didn't get off the ground properly because he had no room from his starting position for a run before he had to jump.

Sounds like individual errors to me.

greenpaper55
03-10-2016, 08:30 PM
No reason to panic just yet, teams who visit ER view it like a cup final and some play out of their skins and just to make it even more difficult they park eleven men behind the ball, I still think over the season with our resources we should be alright as we must have a bigger playing pool compared to most teams but i don't think the quality is much above our competitors. The way to win the league is to splash the cash for real quality as we did under Mcleish and make it a certainty, i don't think we are certainties by any means this season.

ancient hibee
03-10-2016, 09:40 PM
No reason to panic just yet, teams who visit ER view it like a cup final and some play out of their skins and just to make it even more difficult they park eleven men behind the ball, I still think over the season with our resources we should be alright as we must have a bigger playing pool compared to most teams but i don't think the quality is much above our competitors. The way to win the league is to splash the cash for real quality as we did under Mcleish and make it a certainty, i don't think we are certainties by any means this season.


But isn't the trouble that United didn't play out of their skin,they were terrible.