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View Full Version : 1 Tactic to win this league - All Out Attack



thebausburst
25-09-2016, 09:51 AM
Hearts and Rangers essentially ran over teams to win the league in the last couple of seasons. I feel we are, in the main, far too conservative in our approach. We have far better players than anyone in the league, I don't feel Lenny needs to be a tactical genius to win the league but agree one aspect of his approach/message to be more ruthless. However, I think in almost every game we should be playing effectively 3 up, not just Holt and Jase, I mean we all know Keats is well proven at this level and a goal scorer yet the guy barely gets a sniff. I think we should be going all out 3 up for 3 points EVERY week, draws are not use, we can take the odd defeat as long as we win the vast majority of games but draws I fear will cost us and could lead to far too close a race to the line or God forbid the dreaded play-offs again. So be brave Lenny 3 up every week, let's go for it and WIN this league!

Hi Heid Yin
25-09-2016, 10:27 AM
I admire the gung Ho approach as much as anyone. This will work against some teams but not others, who will simply pick us off.
What I will say is that players such as McGinn, with his undoubted close ball control and skill, should be running at speed towards those rear lines in every game - looking for one-two's, beating the last man, having a dig. He plays within himself and really should be offering more,especially goals, and in the process ease the pressure on our one solitary regular scorer, Jason Cummings.
I feel that Lennon is still experimenting with the players at his disposal and adjusting tactics to suit. I'm not convinced that he is altogether happy with certain individuals, or the collective weakness - especially our inability to take our chances when they come.

blackpoolhibs
25-09-2016, 10:34 AM
We don't have the width and guile good wide players or good wingbacks give teams to play an all out attack game.

thebausburst
25-09-2016, 11:02 AM
We don't have the width and guile good wide players or good wingbacks give teams to play an all out attack game.

The quick movement of Jason and Keats playing off Holt should be more than enough to kill off 70% of the team in this league surely? Surely the more proven goalscorers we have on the pitch the more goals we will score no? Lenny moans about other chipping in, but none of those currently playing in the midfield area are what you would call prolific, so what is going to change?? We NEED to change using the players we've got, no point moaning about lack of width or pace etc. The window is shut until January so pointless talking about type of player we don't have in Septemeber.

blackpoolhibs
25-09-2016, 11:08 AM
The quick movement of Jason and Keats playing off Holt should be more than enough to kill off 70% of the team in this league surely? Surely the more proven goalscorers we have on the pitch the more goals we will score no? Lenny moans about other chipping in, but none of those currently playing in the midfield area are what you would call prolific, so what is going to change?? We NEED to change using the players we've got, no point moaning about lack of width or pace etc. The window is shut until January so pointless talking about type of player we don't have in Septemeber.

Who's moaning about it? I just gave my opinion on why i dont think we have the players to play a wide expansive game of all out attack.

We have too many players who like to get too many touches on the ball before moving it on. We need to move the ball on quicker with pace and width in my opinion, this is the way to open up teams who sit in.

Or we could pass it around the back all day then lump a cross into the box from deep and take our chances that way.

You surprise me by saying we need to use the players we have available, cant we just pick anyone from other teams? :rolleyes:

Viva_Palmeiras
25-09-2016, 11:30 AM
I'm sure it was Strachan who admitted failing as a manager when he persisted with a system rather than looking at the players he had at his disposal and then adopting a system to suit them. So it's all about context - what worked for The Rangers and Hearts was down to their situation. Does that mean it suits ours? Isn't Lennon trying to adopt a different approach from ,Stubbs ? Does it mean that over the piece it will be more successful ? I certainly hope so.

thebausburst
25-09-2016, 11:31 AM
Who's moaning about it? I just gave my opinion on why i dont think we have the players to play a wide expansive game of all out attack.

We have too many players who like to get too many touches on the ball before moving it on. We need to move the ball on quicker with pace and width in my opinion, this is the way to open up teams who sit in.

Or we could pass it around the back all day then lump a cross into the box from deep and take our chances that way.

You surprise me by saying we need to use the players we have available, cant we just pick anyone from other teams? :rolleyes:

No need for sarcasm, simple point is movement kills teams, just don't think it always needs to come from out wide, if we have good movement in the attacking areas (Cummings, Keatings, Boyle) we will score goals. We ARE creating loads of chances just look at the stats, so not an issue of opening up teams we are already doing that just not enough natural goalscorers to take advantage hence the over reliance on Cummings.

blackpoolhibs
25-09-2016, 11:44 AM
No need for sarcasm, simple point is movement kills teams, just don't think it always needs to come from out wide, if we have good movement in the attacking areas (Cummings, Keatings, Boyle) we will score goals. We ARE creating loads of chances just look at the stats, so not an issue of opening up teams we are already doing that just not enough natural goalscorers to take advantage hence the over reliance on Cummings.

And no need to accuse me of moaning, when all i was doing was giving an opinion.

Jdawg
25-09-2016, 12:32 PM
Hearts and Rangers essentially ran over teams to win the league in the last couple of seasons. I feel we are, in the main, far too conservative in our approach. We have far better players than anyone in the league, I don't feel Lenny needs to be a tactical genius to win the league but agree one aspect of his approach/message to be more ruthless. However, I think in almost every game we should be playing effectively 3 up, not just Holt and Jase, I mean we all know Keats is well proven at this level and a goal scorer yet the guy barely gets a sniff. I think we should be going all out 3 up for 3 points EVERY week, draws are not use, we can take the odd defeat as long as we win the vast majority of games but draws I fear will cost us and could lead to far too close a race to the line or God forbid the dreaded play-offs again. So be brave Lenny 3 up every week, let's go for it and WIN this league!

Pretty much every team in football plays with genuine width except us. A bit melodramatic perhaps.

We have an abundance of really good central midfielders and therefore shoehorn them into the team, to our detriment.

In our league, hearts were 4231 with 2 pacy wingers, the Rangers 433 with Wallace and Tavanier bombing forward giving them so much width and room to go in behind.

If we don't get an early goal we seem to struggle.

Morton game looks like the exception to the rest of the games so far this season when it should be the norm (at home).

Jdawg
25-09-2016, 12:34 PM
No need for sarcasm, simple point is movement kills teams, just don't think it always needs to come from out wide, if we have good movement in the attacking areas (Cummings, Keatings, Boyle) we will score goals. We ARE creating loads of chances just look at the stats, so not an issue of opening up teams we are already doing that just not enough natural goalscorers to take advantage hence the over reliance on Cummings.

Doesn't always need to come from width but stretching teams creates other pockets of space centrally.

Jdawg
25-09-2016, 12:36 PM
I'm sure it was Strachan who admitted failing as a manager when he persisted with a system rather than looking at the players he had at his disposal and then adopting a system to suit them. So it's all about context - what worked for The Rangers and Hearts was down to their situation. Does that mean it suits ours? Isn't Lennon trying to adopt a different approach from ,Stubbs ? Does it mean that over the piece it will be more successful ? I certainly hope so. yes I think it was Strachan that said that and it's s very good point.

Surely it's not hard to find an attacking left back or let Stevenson stick to defending and bring a left winger in.

Dashing Bob S
25-09-2016, 12:44 PM
And no need to accuse me of moaning, when all i was doing was giving an opinion.

Stop being so opinionated!

blackpoolhibs
25-09-2016, 12:54 PM
Stop being so opinionated!


:greengrin

Jones28
25-09-2016, 12:58 PM
All out attack doesn't really combine well with a diamond. Throw a bit of caution to the wind and go 4-3-3 with Holt/Graham through the middle, Keatings or Boyle wide on one side and Cummings wide on the other.

The problem we seem to have is something akin to last season with stokes. He was continually dropping deep to establish a move and Holt was having to do the same against Ayr.

blackpoolhibs
25-09-2016, 01:01 PM
All out attack doesn't really combine well with a diamond. Throw a bit of caution to the wind and go 4-3-3 with Holt/Graham through the middle, Keatings or Boyle wide on one side and Cummings wide on the other.

The problem we seem to have is something akin to last season with stokes. He was continually dropping deep to establish a move and Holt was having to do the same against Ayr.

The wigan fans said exactly the same thing, to a man they were saying Holt was everywhere except where they wanted him which was in the box.

Jones28
25-09-2016, 01:03 PM
The wigan fans said exactly the same thing, to a man they were saying Holt was everywhere except where they wanted him which was in the box.

You saw how easily we created chances when Holt was in the box against Morton and in the first minute against Ayr. He's a striker so he should be on the shoulder of the last defender.

blackpoolhibs
25-09-2016, 01:07 PM
You saw how easily we created chances when Holt was in the box against Morton and in the first minute against Ayr. He's a striker so he should be on the shoulder of the last defender.

:agree:

I agree, was he injured yesterday or was Graham just prefered by Lennon?

Jones28
25-09-2016, 01:10 PM
:agree:

I agree, was he injured yesterday or was Graham just prefered by Lennon?

Not sure mate, Graham certainly looked more mobile when he came on against Ayr.

Gmack7
25-09-2016, 04:56 PM
All out attack doesn't really combine well with a diamond. Throw a bit of caution to the wind and go 4-3-3 with Holt/Graham through the middle, Keatings or Boyle wide on one side and Cummings wide on the other.

The problem we seem to have is something akin to last season with stokes. He was continually dropping deep to establish a move and Holt was having to do the same against Ayr.
We played 3 at the back a few weeks ago(cant remember the opposition) with Stevenson an Gray as wing backs,we also had Bartley as defensive midfielder, effectively 6 defensive players at home,surely that's far to cautious in a game you know you will have a huge %of posession. In comparison yesterday Liverpool had Wynaldam,Henderson and Lallana in midfield with mane,firminio and coutinho up front. for the avoidance of doubt i'm not comparing our players with liverpool just pointing out that IMO we need to get more offensive players on the park

Eyrie
25-09-2016, 06:31 PM
We played 3 at the back a few weeks ago(cant remember the opposition) with Stevenson an Gray as wing backs,we also had Bartley as defensive midfielder, effectively 6 defensive players at home,surely that's far to cautious in a game you know you will have a huge %of posession. In comparison yesterday Liverpool had Wynaldam,Henderson and Lallana in midfield with mane,firminio and coutinho up front. for the avoidance of doubt i'm not comparing our players with liverpool just pointing out that IMO we need to get more offensive players on the park

No, but you are suggesting that a 4-3-3 formation would help by getting more attacking players on the pitch and reduce the strain placed on our full backs to provide width.

Seems sensible to me.

MWHIBBIES
25-09-2016, 06:42 PM
Did anyone watch Rangers last season? They ****ed about with the ball as much as we did/do. They just didn't get 2 major injuries (Fyvie and McGeouch) at the important stage of the season.

Jim44
25-09-2016, 06:46 PM
I'd be happy to give a more offensive approach a try. We should be overwhelming most of the Championship teams, not holding on to narromw wins and draws. I think we've got the players to give it a real try.

blackpoolhibs
25-09-2016, 06:53 PM
Did anyone watch Rangers last season? They ****ed about with the ball as much as we did/do. They just didn't get 2 major injuries (Fyvie and McGeouch) at the important stage of the season.

They also had the best 2 wide men in the league who created so many of their goals and stretched virtually every team most weeks.

Jdawg
25-09-2016, 07:33 PM
They also had the best 2 wide men in the league who created so many of their goals and stretched virtually every team most weeks.

Spot on. The fact they kept good possession allowed them to play as wingers most weeks. They didn't really have to defend.