Gender pay gap [Archive] - hibs.net Messageboard

calumhibee1

22-09-2016, 10:05 PM

The council just give everyone on the lower grades the same percentage payrise every year, no matter if you're male or female, competent or incompetent.

Not sure that answers your question though?

Same as my work. I only ask as it was being discussed at work yesterday and when I mentioned I didn't know of anywhere that had a gender pay gap for people in the same roles I was met with replies of me being blinkered. Funnily enough the same folk couldn't give me any examples themselves.

Mibbes Aye

22-09-2016, 10:23 PM

Does anyone work in a job where your pay isn't performance related where there is a pay gap between men and women? Serious question. I don't know of any.

The Equal Pay Act 1970, superceded by the Equality Act 2010, means that in law it would be illegal to have a pay gap if women and men were doing the same job.

There's a more subtle issue, whereby women are more likely to carry out childraising duties and that results in them being more likely to work in part-time jobs, zero-hour contracts etc and has an impact on career progression. It's maybe better now than it was in the past but it's still got a long way to go. There's no reason why there should be a gender pay gap but nevertheless there is and it's still substantial.

Colr

23-09-2016, 05:09 AM

Colr

23-09-2016, 05:12 AM

The Equal Pay Act 1970, superceded by the Equality Act 2010, means that in law it would be illegal to have a pay gap if women and men were doing the same job.

There's a more subtle issue, whereby women are more likely to carry out childraising duties and that results in them being more likely to work in part-time jobs, zero-hour contracts etc and has an impact on career progression. It's maybe better now than it was in the past but it's still got a long way to go. There's no reason why there should be a gender pay gap but nevertheless there is and it's still substantial.

Sometimes down to lifestyle choice but more often the cost and availability of childcare along with the tendency for flexibility, where it exists, to only be available to mothers and not fathers (although it often falls to mothers by default)

beensaidbefore

23-09-2016, 05:03 PM

The Equal Pay Act 1970, superceded by the Equality Act 2010, means that in law it would be illegal to have a pay gap if women and men were doing the same job.

There's a more subtle issue, whereby women are more likely to carry out childraising duties and that results in them being more likely to work in part-time jobs, zero-hour contracts etc and has an impact on career progression. It's maybe better now than it was in the past but it's still got a long way to go. There's no reason why there should be a gender pay gap but nevertheless there is and it's still substantial.

Unless I took say 4 years out of work to stay at home and raise kids. I wouldn't then expect to walk in on the same salary as my peers who had remained in post during absence, should I?

Kids are a life choice and those that choose not to should not be penalised in order to make things fairer for those that have chosen to.

Having said that, providing your cv and experience is adequate for the post, it shouldn't matter an jot what's between your legs when it comes to wages.

beensaidbefore

23-09-2016, 05:14 PM

Sometimes down to lifestyle choice but more often the cost and availability of childcare along with the tendency for flexibility, where it exists, to only be available to mothers and not fathers (although it often falls to mothers by default)

That's because the law and society regard fathers as second rate parents. Might not be popular opinion amongst some quarters, but for its many positives, feminism is at the root cause of the issue due to the fact that it regards woman as someone who should be entitled to be a mother at all costs. Men have little say and should a woman choose to leave with child in tow there is an unfair process whereby fathers have to prove their worth as a parent, whilst mum can carry on without having to prove her worth due to the fact she is a woman. Things have got a little better recently, but the fact feminist theory informs much of the policy making around parenting means we are a while off equality yet.

beensaidbefore

23-09-2016, 05:20 PM

That's because the law and society regard fathers as second rate parents. Might not be popular opinion amongst some quarters, but for its many positives, feminism is at the root cause of the issue due to the fact that it regards woman as someone who should be entitled to be a mother at all costs. Men have little say and should a woman choose to leave with child in tow there is an unfair process whereby fathers have to prove their worth as a parent, whilst mum can carry on without having to prove her worth due to the fact she is a woman. Things have got a little better recently, but the fact feminist theory informs much of the policy making around parenting means we are a while off equality yet.

Having reread my own post, the main point is kinda lost. To gain equality in the workplace, we need equality in all aspects of life such as fathers rights. You seldom hear of any feminist organisations fighting the corner for male parents, hence my opinion that feminist attitudes in some way hinder those they are aiming to help by being so blind in their mindset that men are the root of all problems we face in society, including the gender pay gap. Vote for equality in parenting if we want to see that reflected in the workplace.

Rant over!
😉

lord bunberry

23-09-2016, 05:27 PM

Unless I took say 4 years out of work to stay at home and raise kids. I wouldn't then expect to walk in on the same salary as my peers who had remained in post during absence, should I?

Kids are a life choice and those that choose not to should not be penalised in order to make things fairer for those that have chosen to.

Having said that, providing your cv and experience is adequate for the post, it shouldn't matter an jot what's between your legs when it comes to wages.
Surely kids are a life choice for men and women. It's not a lifestyle choice for the woman in the relationship to have to carry the child. I understand why small businesses have a problem with employing women at the same rate as men, but big businesses don't have that excuse.

beensaidbefore

23-09-2016, 05:38 PM

Surely kids are a life choice for men and women. It's not a lifestyle choice for the woman in the relationship to have to carry the child. I understand why small businesses have a problem with employing women at the same rate as men, but big businesses don't have that excuse.
I agree. Turning it on its head a little, Why though as Mr or Mrs single no kids should I be paid the same as Mrs has kids and missed several years of work?

lord bunberry

23-09-2016, 05:44 PM

I agree. Turning it on its head a little, Why though as Mr or Mrs single no kids should I be paid the same as Mrs has kids and missed several years of work?
Because if everyone had that attitude the human race would be extinct within 100 years. I genuinely understand the issue some people have with this, but it says more about me and society in general that a woman should have to choose between a career and a family.

beensaidbefore

23-09-2016, 05:57 PM

Because if everyone had that attitude the human race would be extinct within 100 years. I genuinely understand the issue some people have with this, but it says more about me and society in general that a woman should have to choose between a career and a family.

That's not the point I was trying to make. See my other posts above where I tried to be fairly reasoned. I belive equality should mean equality, and that should extend to fathers rights. Equality in this area would alleviate the burden on mother's to stay at home parenting or taking poorly paid jobs etc by providing a platform for fathers to pick up some of the slack.

At my work it's not enough to just turn up, there's lots of areas I need to be seen 'contributing' in which are outwith my day to day stuff. Without doing so I can be financially penalised come payrise time. Perhaps some people are uncomfortable with the idea that someone away from post for a considerable amount of time returns on equal pay to them?

Hibrandenburg

23-09-2016, 06:04 PM

That's not the point I was trying to make. See my other posts above where I tried to be fairly reasoned. I belive equality should mean equality, and that should extend to fathers rights. Equality in this area would alleviate the burden on mother's to stay at home parenting or taking poorly paid jobs etc by providing a platform for fathers to pick up some of the slack.

At my work it's not enough to just turn up, there's lots of areas I need to be seen 'contributing' in which are outwith my day to day stuff. Without doing so I can be financially penalised come payrise time. Perhaps some people are uncomfortable with the idea that someone away from post for a considerable amount of time returns on equal pay to them?

If that person is doing the same work as the person who stayed then surely they deserve the same pay.

beensaidbefore

23-09-2016, 06:12 PM

If that person is doing the same work as the person who stayed then surely they deserve the same pay.

I would agree, provided said person was continuing to be midline salary. If said person had 'contributed' and had an above average increase(s) then no, I don't think that would be fair.

johnbc70

23-09-2016, 06:54 PM

At work we saw an old advert for our company from 1974, looking for a 'young lady aged 18-24' to join the typing pool. Wonder who got that job!

Hibrandenburg

23-09-2016, 06:58 PM

beensaidbefore

23-09-2016, 07:25 PM

Sorry but you've lost me.

If someone has been going the extra mile and has been rewarded financially, I think it would be unfair for another person who had been off work for a period of time, upon their return, expect to be given the same salary.

Edit: things seem to have strayed from the op which asked about a non performance pay gap. Sorry for the hijack. Over and out.

Speedy

24-09-2016, 06:42 AM

Does anyone work in a job where your pay isn't performance related where there is a pay gap between men and women? Serious question. I don't know of any.

Everyone is on 'individual pay' at my work. I have no idea if there is a gender pay gap but there is certainly a difference amongst the staff.

calumhibee1

24-09-2016, 07:31 AM

I would agree, provided said person was continuing to be midline salary. If said person had 'contributed' and had an above average increase(s) then no, I don't think that would be fair.

I get you I think and I agree. Your wage rises are performance based, and as such someone who hasn't contributed for a year or whatever shouldn't be able to come back and be paid the same as you seeing as your wage is based on how well you personally have done. And I'd tend to agree with that. Point would still stand if you were a woman and a guy took a career break and came back to the same wage you had been put up to because of your hard work.

sleeping giant

24-09-2016, 07:34 AM

Everyone is on 'individual pay' at my work. I have no idea if there is a gender pay gap but there is certainly a difference amongst the staff.

Same with mine.

I have had to negotiate all my pay rises and it always follows with "don't tell anyone else "

Pretty Boy

24-09-2016, 08:40 AM

Same with mine.

I have had to negotiate all my pay rises and it always follows with "don't tell anyone else "

Likewise.

There's a standard cost of living increase but anything over and above that has to be negotiated. It's the best system as far as I'm concerned. I'm better at my job, all KPIs prove this, than others in the office so deserve to be paid more imo.

calumhibee1

24-09-2016, 10:32 AM

Likewise.

There's a standard cost of living increase but anything over and above that has to be negotiated. It's the best system as far as I'm concerned. I'm better at my job, all KPIs prove this, than others in the office so deserve to be paid more imo.

It's definitely the way it should be. Some folk in my work would be aswell not coming in with how bad they are at there jobs. However we're all on the same wage and we even all get a bonus or nobody gets a bonus. Woman in my work has had a "final" written warning for nearly everything you could think of, poor attendance, poor performance, poor attitude and cheating flexi (stealing in my eyes but apparently not in anyone's that makes decisions). Four "final" warnings and still receives the same bonus/wage as myself and others who have received multiple awards (all we end up getting for them is a certificate) for our performance and I also haven't had a sick day in years.

Peevemor

24-09-2016, 12:20 PM

It's definitely the way it should be. Some folk in my work would be aswell not coming in with how bad they are at there jobs. However we're all on the same wage and we even all get a bonus or nobody gets a bonus. Woman in my work has had a "final" written warning for nearly everything you could think of, poor attendance, poor performance, poor attitude and cheating flexi (stealing in my eyes but apparently not in anyone's that makes decisions). Four "final" warnings and still receives the same bonus/wage as myself and others who have received multiple awards (all we end up getting for them is a certificate) for our performance and I also haven't had a sick day in years.
When we were deciding what bonuses everyone was getting last Christmas we used a month's salary as a base for everyone. One guy who only started in July got 50%, one guy who'd worked his arse off got 150% and another who has a questionable attitude to his work and his boss(es) got "only" 50%.

During the year we had also treated everyone to an all expenses paid 5 day trip to Milan and Venice.

The 50% guy went round asking everyone what they'd got and went in a mega huff when he found out, creating a crap atmosphere around the office (there are only 11 of us).

I took him to one side and told him to be grateful for the half month's salary bonus that he'd got and told him why it was less than the others and exactly what to do if he wasn't happy.

The thing that annoys me most is that his attitude hasn't changed. He hasn't even tried. You can't help some people.

Peevemor

24-09-2016, 12:25 PM

As for the original subject. We pay people on merit and have women earning more than their male colleagues in similar positions.

McD

24-09-2016, 01:08 PM

My work, from what I've seen, is completely gender neutral. I see many men and women in roles from the top to the bottom of the business, with no attention placed on gender whatsoever. There's several areas where one could argue there's no/not enough men (only if you were interested in arguing the point - no one is).

There is salary disparity across any given given role in my work, some of which is undeserved (based on ones ability to talk a good game at interview, not on performance), but nothing based on gender.

I left school 18 years ago (jeez), and I can honestly say I've never seen anything that could be taken as sexual inequality in either getting a job or the pay offered for it (caveated that there's obviously upper echelons of businesses that I'm not and haven't been privy to).

Danderhall Hibs

24-09-2016, 01:41 PM

When we were deciding what bonuses everyone was getting last Christmas we used a month's salary as a base for everyone. One guy who only started in July got 50%, one guy who'd worked his arse off got 150% and another who has a questionable attitude to his work and his boss(es) got "only" 50%.

During the year we had also treated everyone to an all expenses paid 5 day trip to Milan and Venice.

The 50% guy went round asking everyone what they'd got and went in a mega huff when he found out, creating a crap atmosphere around the office (there are only 11 of us).

I took him to one side and told him to be grateful for the half month's salary bonus that he'd got and told him why it was less than the others and exactly what to do if he wasn't happy.

The thing that annoys me most is that his attitude hasn't changed. He hasn't even tried. You can't help some people.

He's like a lot of folk that I've worked with - they have a sense of entitlement.

Peevemor

24-09-2016, 02:03 PM

He's like a lot of folk that I've worked with - they have a sense of entitlement.
It's exactly that. He can be a real brat (even though he's 33). He'll arrive in a 20 grand car wearing £100 shirts and moan about being skint.

TRC

24-09-2016, 07:19 PM

When we were deciding what bonuses everyone was getting last Christmas we used a month's salary as a base for everyone. One guy who only started in July got 50%, one guy who'd worked his arse off got 150% and another who has a questionable attitude to his work and his boss(es) got "only" 50%.

During the year we had also treated everyone to an all expenses paid 5 day trip to Milan and Venice.

The 50% guy went round asking everyone what they'd got and went in a mega huff when he found out, creating a crap atmosphere around the office (there are only 11 of us).

I took him to one side and told him to be grateful for the half month's salary bonus that he'd got and told him why it was less than the others and exactly what to do if he wasn't happy.

The thing that annoys me most is that his attitude hasn't changed. He hasn't even tried. You can't help some people.
This reminds me of a guy I work with, we pool our yearly wage increases and then it's distributed between all workers. so he got 6kr this year but he spends most of his day talking to his mates/family on the phone and he was going radge about it. He was even more pissed off when he heard what I got! Difference is I worked my arse off the last year and will continue to do so!

beensaidbefore

24-09-2016, 08:35 PM

I get you I think and I agree. Your wage rises are performance based, and as such someone who hasn't contributed for a year or whatever shouldn't be able to come back and be paid the same as you seeing as your wage is based on how well you personally have done. And I'd tend to agree with that. Point would still stand if you were a woman and a guy took a career break and came back to the same wage you had been put up to because of your hard work.

Exactly what I meant mate. 😉

calumhibee1

24-09-2016, 08:55 PM

This reminds me of a guy I work with, we pool our yearly wage increases and then it's distributed between all workers. so he got 6kr this year but he spends most of his day talking to his mates/family on the phone and he was going radge about it. He was even more pissed off when he heard what I got! Difference is I worked my arse off the last year and will continue to do so!

I'd be going radge if I got 6k aswell.. i got about £230 increase this year. The

Colr

24-09-2016, 08:59 PM

What's the class pay gap?

TRC

25-09-2016, 06:52 AM

I'd be going radge if I got 6k aswell.. i got about £230 increase this year. The

6 Swedish krona about 50p! Not 6000 pound.

calumhibee1

25-09-2016, 08:33 PM

6 Swedish krona about 50p! Not 6000 pound.

Now that makes more sense!

High-On-Hibs

26-09-2016, 12:58 PM

Mibbes Aye

26-09-2016, 09:08 PM

The gender pay gap is a myth stirred up by feminists who want everything handed to them on a plate. 2 people doing the exact same job, working the exact same hours, with the same level of experience and producing the same kind of results can expect to be paid the same, regardless of whether they are male or female. Personal circumstances outside of work should have absolutely no baring on the wage you receive within work. If you make personal choices that effect your ability to work, then that's your problem, not the problem of employers who shouldn't have to pay for work that isn't being done.

Deloitte have just published an analysis which says that pay parity won't be achieved until 2069 at the current rate of progress.

Of course they're well known as myth-creating feminists, those politically correct nutjobs at Deloitte :rolleyes:

Maybe you should get in touch with them to tell them why they are wrong.

The_Exile

26-09-2016, 10:34 PM

Male models get far less cash than female models doing the exact same job. Sure I read somewhere it was about 80-90% in some cases.

Speedy

27-09-2016, 06:05 AM

Deloitte have just published an analysis which says that pay parity won't be achieved until 2069 at the current rate of progress.

Of course they're well known as myth-creating feminists, those politically correct nutjobs at Deloitte :rolleyes:

Maybe you should get in touch with them to tell them why they are wrong.

If you dig into it, the issue isn't people being paid different amounts for the same jobs. It's societal trends meaning women are more likely to end up in lower paid jobs.

Not sure if it was the deloitte report but I read that the gender pay gap is negligible for full time workers under 40.

Future17

27-09-2016, 07:42 AM

Male models get far less cash than female models doing the exact same job. Sure I read somewhere it was about 80-90% in some cases.

That's been my experience. What does an ordinary, average, everyday kinda bloke, who just happens to be drop-dead gorgeous with a body like it's been sculpted from bronze, have to do to make a living these days???