Oz family can stay in Scotland

[snooky]

Australian family Gregg & Kathryn Brain who faced deportation can apparently stay in Scotland.
For the Foreign Office, ironically, that decision should have been a no-brainer

[ronaldo7]

Australian family Gregg & Kathryn Brain who faced deportation can apparently stay in Scotland.
For the Foreign Office, ironically, that decision should have been a no-brainer

If only the Scottish Government had control over immigration eh.

Great result for the Brains.

[speedy_gonzales]

If only the Scottish Government had control over immigration eh.
Would it have made much of a difference? They didn't meet the criteria to stay, admittedly the rules changed during their student visa but I'd rather we have a robust (absolute) immigration policy rather than just picking & choosing who we like as that can be open to abuse. The local MP, Ian Blackford, has again reiterated the requirement for Scotland to be in charge of immigration. That is all fair & well, but as long as we are part of the UK with shared borders and shared benefits, the immigration policies have to be unified to prevent abuse of the system.
This particular case reeks of faux rage between local MSP's and Westminster civil servants, there have surely been other instances where people fell in to the trap when the rules changed, where is the fight for them, were they the wrong type of immigrant?

[ronaldo7]

Would it have made much of a difference? They didn't meet the criteria to stay, admittedly the rules changed during their student visa but I'd rather we have a robust (absolute) immigration policy rather than just picking & choosing who we like as that can be open to abuse. The local MP, Ian Blackford, has again reiterated the requirement for Scotland to be in charge of immigration. That is all fair & well, but as long as we are part of the UK with shared borders and shared benefits, the immigration policies have to be unified to prevent abuse of the system.
This particular case reeks of faux rage between local MSP's and Westminster civil servants, there have surely been other instances where people fell in to the trap when the rules changed, where is the fight for them, were they the wrong type of immigrant?

I'm coming at it from a different angle. One in which we're Independent. You can't have a policy which allows people to stay on a post student work visa, and then pull up the drawbridge half way through. The Brains have been dealt with despicably imo. Thank god they have a local MP who's taken up their cause and won the fight.

The criteria for staying has been changed and doesn't take into consideration areas of the UK which don't have London wages.

On your point re the faux rage of MSP's, I'm sure the Brains are happy to have people able to fight their just cause. I'm not sure what the wrong type of immigrant is, maybe you could enlighten me.

[NYHibby]

On your point re the faux rage of MSP's, I'm sure the Brains are happy to have people able to fight their just cause. I'm not sure what the wrong type of immigrant is, maybe you could enlighten me.

Judging by the attention this family got and the lack of attention paid to other people in the same situation, it appears politicians think the wrong type of immigrants are those not of white British descent. Where is the outrage over the Chinese, Indian and African former students who were affected and had to leave the country?

Speaking as an immigrant to this country (I am a citizen now though), I think this family being allowed to stay is an example of this country's immigration policy at its worst.

[NYHibby]

Would it have made much of a difference? They didn't meet the criteria to stay, admittedly the rules changed during their student visa but I'd rather we have a robust (absolute) immigration policy rather than just picking & choosing who we like as that can be open to abuse.


While I obviously can't speak for all immigrants, this is what most of us want. People want consistency in application of the rules.

[speedy_gonzales]

I know of at least one Asian family based in Edinburgh that had to go home because of a change in their status that meant their visa had expired. Again, they came as a student but they were soon working, post-grad. They went through the strict home office procedure and because they couldn't satisfy the criteria of having a recognised sponsor they were told to leave. Their plight was very similar to the Brains's but received little attention outwith their immediate community.
The irony is not lost on me that a family from Australia, a country with one of the strictest immigration policies, should fall foul of the rules but then be involved in a media led campaign to overturn the governments decision/policy.
Remember, nobody has actually won here, the family would still have had to leave had Mrs Brain not been awarded a curators job for a national hotel chain that is a recognised sponsor,,,,nevermind the fact she got the job long after the date her visa was no longer valid.

[Sergio sledge]

I'm coming at it from a different angle. One in which we're Independent. You can't have a policy which allows people to stay on a post student work visa, and then pull up the drawbridge half way through. The Brains have been dealt with despicably imo. Thank god they have a local MP who's taken up their cause and won the fight.

The criteria for staying has been changed and doesn't take into consideration areas of the UK which don't have London wages.

On your point re the faux rage of MSP's, I'm sure the Brains are happy to have people able to fight their just cause. I'm not sure what the wrong type of immigrant is, maybe you could enlighten me.

I agree it was unfair to move the goalposts half way through and common sense would say that anyone who came in under the old rules on the understanding they would be able to stay should be allowed to stay when the rules change. It was an unfair situation for the family.

However, your bit in bold is wrong IMHO. Mrs Brain got a job and therefore fulfilled the new visa requirements. This was not a case of her MP (& MSP too) winning the fight, trying to claim this as some sort of victory for the SNP is not really correct.

[ronaldo7]

I agree it was unfair to move the goalposts half way through and common sense would say that anyone who came in under the old rules on the understanding they would be able to stay should be allowed to stay when the rules change. It was an unfair situation for the family.

However, your bit in bold is wrong IMHO. Mrs Brain got a job and therefore fulfilled the new visa requirements. This was not a case of her MP (& MSP too) winning the fight, trying to claim this as some sort of victory for the SNP is not really correct.

I think you're stretching it a bit in saying anyone is claiming this as an SNP victory, on this thread anyway. Their Mp just happens to be an SNP mp who will be working for all his constituents.

I believe all parties in the Scottish parlaiment supported the Brains, a point mentioned on bbc radio Scotland this morning.

[ronaldo7]

While I obviously can't speak for all immigrants, this is what most of us want. People want consistency in application of the rules.

Agreed, I just don't know why the UK gov have re-introduced the post study work visa for Elite universities in England only.

[Future17]

Australian family Gregg & Kathryn Brain who faced deportation can apparently stay in Scotland.
For the Foreign Office, ironically, that decision should have been a no-brainer

Foreign Office?

[Sergio sledge]

I think you're stretching it a bit in saying anyone is claiming this as an SNP victory, on this thread anyway. Their Mp just happens to be an SNP mp who will be working for all his constituents.

I believe all parties in the Scottish parlaiment supported the Brains, a point mentioned on bbc radio Scotland this morning.

Fair enough, I've seen plenty people (not on here) claiming the SNP "won" it for them.

However my point still stands, no-one won anything, Mrs Brain got a job and fulfilled the requirements of the visa.

[snooky]

Foreign Office?

Correction: "Home Office".
(Thanks, F17)

[ronaldo7]

Fair enough, I've seen plenty people (not on here) claiming the SNP "won" it for them.

However my point still stands, no-one won anything, Mrs Brain got a job and fulfilled the requirements of the visa.

The Brains won the right to stay after a long and spirited battle against the UK government, which they really shouldn't have been put through.

Any comment on why the UK gov have re-instated the policy for Elite English Yoonies only?

[steakbake]

Fair enough, I've seen plenty people (not on here) claiming the SNP "won" it for them.

However my point still stands, no-one won anything, Mrs Brain got a job and fulfilled the requirements of the visa.

That's basically the long and short of it.

There has been some discretion shown in terms of them no longer having 3c or 3d leave (if you want to get really technical - this is the racket I'm in) and being on the point of deportation, but they have been given the chance to submit a fresh application where they believe that they meet those requirements and it has been found that they do.

In terms of the role of an MP (of whatever stripe), the useful bit is perhaps being able to seek UKVI to show some discretion and hold the door open just that little bit longer. However, they are extremely unlikely to be personally responsible for maintaining someone's stay in the UK outside of the rules, unless there is a very compelling and exceptional case to be made, which generally, would be made by a legal representative anyway. The bar for that is particularly high in recent years and not, as the former Home Secretary now PM claims, about whether someone has a cat or dog or whatever strawman nonsense she wanted to use to pan our Human Rights.

[speedy_gonzales]

Any comment on why the UK gov have re-instated the policy for Elite English Yoonies only?
Is this connected to the allegation that some educational establishments were found to be a backdoor way in to the UK? I think there was a scandal a couple of years back with a college in London (London Met) where it was found they had abused their trusted status to sponsor students to allow them to come to the country freely.
Another issue that I've noticed with the Brain family, and it's never been explained fully, the announcement for the withdrawal of the post-study visa was March 2011, the family came to Scotland in June 2011,,,,should this not have been flagged up then!

[Sergio sledge]

The Brains won the right to stay after a long and spirited battle against the UK government, which they really shouldn't have been put through.

Any comment on why the UK gov have re-instated the policy for Elite English Yoonies only?

I already stated I didn't think they should have been put through this. Moving the goalposts after granting a visa was wrong and they shouldn't have been in this situation.

However, they didn't win. "Winning" would suggest that they got special dispensation or got the rules changed specifically because of them. They didn't, they eventually managed to get a job which fulfilled the new requirements and were allowed to stay.

I didn't know English universities got the policy re-instated, but if it is the case then this is totally wrong.

Edit: are you talking about the pilot scheme which has been introduced allowing people doing certain masters courses at Oxford, Cambridge, ICL and Bath to stay for 6 months after the end of their course?

[speedy_gonzales]

I didn't know English universities got the policy re-instated, but if it is the case then this is totally wrong.
There is currently an ongoing small scale trial for a replacement to the work-study visa, unfortunately it's only being trialled at Bath, Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial College London.

EDIT: your edit beat me to it.

[steakbake]

I already stated I didn't think they should have been put through this. Moving the goalposts after granting a visa was wrong and they shouldn't have been in this situation.

However, they didn't win. "Winning" would suggest that they got special dispensation or got the rules changed specifically because of them. They didn't, they eventually managed to get a job which fulfilled the new requirements and were allowed to stay.

I didn't know English universities got the policy re-instated, but if it is the case then this is totally wrong.

Edit: are you talking about the pilot scheme which has been introduced allowing people doing certain masters courses at Oxford, Cambridge, ICL and Bath to stay for 6 months after the end of their course?

It will be. Why they chose these specifically as opposed to distributing it throughout the country to several areas, I don't know.

[SHODAN]

Look forward to more of this after Brexit when the UK Government will implement an ideologically-driven approach to immigration tailored to England and England only, which will deprive us of the EU workers that our economy relies on. I for one will not be here if we get to that point. :aok:

[ronaldo7]

I already stated I didn't think they should have been put through this. Moving the goalposts after granting a visa was wrong and they shouldn't have been in this situation.

However, they didn't win. "Winning" would suggest that they got special dispensation or got the rules changed specifically because of them. They didn't, they eventually managed to get a job which fulfilled the new requirements and were allowed to stay.

I didn't know English universities got the policy re-instated, but if it is the case then this is totally wrong.

Edit: are you talking about the pilot scheme which has been introduced allowing people doing certain masters courses at Oxford, Cambridge, ICL and Bath to stay for 6 months after the end of their course?


There is currently an ongoing small scale trial for a replacement to the work-study visa, unfortunately it's only being trialled at Bath, Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial College London.

EDIT: your edit beat me to it.



It will be. Why they chose these specifically as opposed to distributing it throughout the country to several areas, I don't know.

It is indeed. I wonder why Edinburgh University is not involved. It is in the top 20 globally after all. Why not spread the scheme to all nations of the UK?

[marinello59]

It is indeed. I wonder why Edinburgh University is not involved. It is in the top 20 globally after all. Why not spread the scheme to all nations of the UK?

It should be spread out over the whole UK. There is no logical reason why it isn't.

[speedy_gonzales]

It should be spread out over the whole UK. There is no logical reason why it isn't.

Perhaps those 4 establishments have the highest levels of foreign students seeking post-study visas?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Fair dinkum

[Sergio sledge]

It should be spread out over the whole UK. There is no logical reason why it isn't.

:agree:

[ronaldo7]

Would it have made much of a difference? They didn't meet the criteria to stay, admittedly the rules changed during their student visa but I'd rather we have a robust (absolute) immigration policy rather than just picking & choosing who we like as that can be open to abuse. The local MP, Ian Blackford, has again reiterated the requirement for Scotland to be in charge of immigration. That is all fair & well, but as long as we are part of the UK with shared borders and shared benefits, the immigration policies have to be unified to prevent abuse of the system.
This particular case reeks of faux rage between local MSP's and Westminster civil servants, there have surely been other instances where people fell in to the trap when the rules changed, where is the fight for them, were they the wrong type of immigrant?

It seems Ian Blackford has another case on his desk. I wonder if this is the right type of immigrant for you this time?

They're all the same to me.

17496

[speedy_gonzales]

It seems Ian Blackford has another case on his desk. I wonder if this is the right type of immigrant for you this time?

They're all the same to me.

17496

Right type for me? Not sure what to make of that statement, I'm a rules guy, they're either legal or illegal and all should be treated fairly.

[ronaldo7]

Would it have made much of a difference? They didn't meet the criteria to stay, admittedly the rules changed during their student visa but I'd rather we have a robust (absolute) immigration policy rather than just picking & choosing who we like as that can be open to abuse. The local MP, Ian Blackford, has again reiterated the requirement for Scotland to be in charge of immigration. That is all fair & well, but as long as we are part of the UK with shared borders and shared benefits, the immigration policies have to be unified to prevent abuse of the system.
This particular case reeks of faux rage between local MSP's and Westminster civil servants, there have surely been other instances where people fell in to the trap when the rules changed, where is the fight for them, were they the wrong type of immigrant?

Maybe I saw something else in your post in bold, but I thought you felt the case reeked of faux outrage, and it was all made up.

The part where you ask, were they the wrong type of immigrant? I felt was a dig at the local MP, and it felt like you were saying their cause was being fought because they fitted a certain type of immigrant. If I've got it wrong, I apologise.

I'm sure the local guys will take up the cause of people whatever their background. If someone's been wronged by the system, I'm sure they'd be glad to have people such as Ian Blackford in their corner.